Hey folks, thank you all so much for joining me on this deep-dive into one of my favourite mini-series of all time. These videos as one glorious whole adds up to being the longest video I've made to date, and it's the video I'm most proud of! Before Who Series (14? 1? Idk anymore..) I will be making a king-size analysis video of the movie Midsommar (2019), as well as recording some reaction videos and answering the mountain of questions you guys have left for me on the discord server (in video form again). See you guys on the next one!
What makes the deaths of Frobisher's family worse is the fact that it was completely pointless in the end. Jack was ultimately able to beat the 456 and prevent any of the children being taken away to a fate worse than death, meaning that while Frobisher believed he was doing what was best for his family by sparing them from that nightmarish fate, he didn't need to do something as terrible as that in the first place
Miracle Day is definitely a hidden gem to me. It's not as good as children of earth but that's like saying a hamburger isn't as good as filet mignon. It's a solid season of television with some great concepts and ideas as well as some amazing character development for Gwen and Jack.
Exactly! Miracle Day may not be on the level of Children of Earth but it is leaps and bounds better than Torchwood's first 2 series, I honestly loved it.
I don't remember the ending of this series. But my god I remember the family suicide scene. It's all I remember tbf other than the general plot. Haunting.
About the Vortex-manipulator: think Hitchhiker's Guide. The teleportation feature being off doesn't stop communicatioons etc. So he used it first to pick up a passing ship on his sensors and then sent a ping asking for a lift. Everything's wrapped up neatly with a bow using a literary trope from a sci-fi legend, I call that satisfactory. :P
I actually really love Miracle Day, it's the only season of Torchwood that I've watched multiple times (Tosh and Ianto's deaths, and Owen being stuck just consciously rotting away are too much for me to watch again.)
Same here! I've watched it multiple times myself. Such a good season! I love that they're no longer on their home turf, it makes for very interesting scenes :)
Miracle Day had a brilliant premise and promising opening, and borrowed the concept that worked so well in CoE of “How would governments react in a worldwide crisis”. This style of Torchwood works better than the DW/SJA approach of a “Monster of the week” type show IMO. However the execution wasn’t great, the show was too drawn out over 10 episodes and I personally didn’t find Rex and Esther that likable as characters, whereas the other 5 main torchwood cast I had an instant connection with. Would love to see a review on it from Harry though!
I don’t remember if it was a fan theory or a detail Russell mentioned one time, but one of the most interesting ideas I heard about Frobisher is that he is the descendant of Caecillius, the character Capaldi played in Fires of Pompeii, and his story ends the way it does because this is Time correcting itself by removing them after the Doctor originally saved them. (Though this idea would be somewhat contradicted by the cast reunion video during Lockdown but I digress 😂) If true that this was sort of the thematic implication, that adds so much more substance to the tragedy of the character. Frobisher, from the start, is viewed as expendable and living on borrowed time, in a political sense. But it’s only when confronted by the PM that his daughters will be the sacrifice to keep the rest of them looking good that he realises how literal that idea is. What’s more, he took matters into his own hands mere hours before they all could have been saved, making the tragedy of his character that much more impactful. It’s just such a dark twist to think about Donna’s plea ending up being in vain, that the Doctor’s loving act to save them from the fires only left “them” to the much darker fate of being killed by their own father. There’s just so much to say about that scene where not a single word is spoken. One of the darkest and most powerful scenes in the Whoniverse for sure.
Russell did confirm it! It was in the Torchwood Declassified episode "Cracking Children of Earth". Russell suggested that Frobisher may be a descendant of Caecilius, and says that in a sense, Frobisher's killing of his family brings closure to the saving of Caecilius' family in The Fires of Pompeii. That was then further confirmed by Moffat who said that Frobisher's suicide was time's way of "reasserting itself".
I personally think it is worth you giving miracle day a go. Don't get me wrong, it is not as good as children earth, but it also does a great job if exploring dark themes.
I literally watched this when i was 8 years old, with my siblings (most definitely shouldn't have been). I always remembered that Frobisher scene with his family.
tbf, miracle day isnt all that bad. its never recommended because it feels unsatisfying and overly bloated, but some episodes, scenes, and ideas come across really well, especially with the same darkness - albeit lacking some maturity - as children of earth. its still worth the watch for its ambition and concept alone.
Just got done watching all 5 parts of the review. Amazing job man- we’d absolutely love you to come on the podcast one day if you ever get a second. Huge fans 🙏🙏🙏
I honestly think you'll enjoy analysing Miracle Day. Yes, its Americanised to all hell, it doesn't fit into the whoniverse canon and the actual cause/resolution of the event is a little too theological for my liking, but there's some interesting stuff in there about (once again) the human respose to the event and the practical societal effects such an event would cause. Be warned, there are some more heavy themes (potentially even heavier) but since they only really impact underwritten characters they don't hit quite as hard as the ones explored by Children of Earth. Looking forward to your say on it!
She records the PM to damage his career as revenge for what he did to John Frobisher. He was her best friend she may have even loved him maybe they nearly got together but decided to stay friends. So knowing it was the PM to was going to sacrifice his children and knowing it lead to his suicide of course she wanted to ruin the PMs life and career. We even see her stare at him scenes earlier with blood bpiling hate and the background music indicated something was going to happen between them. Her and John were not the main characters or even that essential but they were showing how even those within government especially the ones who want to be good even if not all the time are the ones that become victims. He lost his life and his family likely remembered as a psycho that killed his family and she has to live grieving his loss trying to repair his reputation and likely getting some hate for being part of government all while the higher ups clean their hands.
Also, there's two other doctor who Seasons you could watch that follow the same format as Children of Earth and Miracle. They are called The Key to Time and Trial of a Timelord. Just, imagine someone having to critically analyse them.
Honestly miracle day isn't that bad but it has thonas and the magic railroad syndrome As a standalone separate universe separated from everything it's not too bad, but the moment you try to canonise it it's stupid and makes no god damn sense like, it's one of those storyline where you need the doctor to make it work, like the 456 storyline kind of works being doctorlite as it's not a potentially earth ending threat, other than if their demands weren't met that is, but miracle day just, it would work better as a connected whoniverse plot, we needed Sarah Jane and Mickley and Martha, plus having unit there too would have made it work so much better, or strip jack gwen and rhys out of it and have some ex-unit staff decide they want to bring torchwood back in secret, still having that whoniverse connection but making the whole thing make more sense, hell have some unit action if need be as a sort of "we need some help can we borrow a few bits?" Sort of thing, maybe have Martha be that contact, that way she can be trying to get ahold of the doctor but have it where he's busy doing the doctors wife at that point so phone signal can't get through, and if it still has to be wrapped up the same way have Jack beam in like "did someone call for a doctor? Sorry ladies and gentlemen he's busy so I'm here to help!" Just something where he's not just on earth just because
Miracle day is pretty bad I'll admit, BUT there are some excellent horror themes apart of it. If it went further into these themes and axed the side plots then I think it would be really good. I still don't think its as bad as its perceived but I don't think its good.
Really great work on the seires I love your reviews. I massively look forward to your opinions of Miricle Day but also the new series of Disneys Dr who! Lots to look forward to on the channel!
I feel for you Harry, I really do... I did try to watch Miracle Day but it never grabbed me... I have heard that Children of Earth / Miracle Day were supposed to be the Big Events of Season 3 of Torchwood - But teh BBC decided to cut teh budget meaning that they ended up as Two Multi Part Specials and Not part of a full series... Which also meant that possibly they are also both out of sequence and Miracle day was supposed to be BEFORE Children of Earth and had Hasty Rewrites to make it fit... Obviously speculation... The only thing any one is 100% sure of is that initially there was a 13 episode Season 3 planned and then it would Cap off with Children of Earth! And the BBC put the Kibosh on that plan!
How odd, my brother loved Miracle Day. I had dropped Torchwood after the first season, but he made me watch season 4 so I always assumed that was the best season lol. It felt pretty standalone too, almost like a series reboot. I liked the premise too, though I ended up returning home (I was visiting due to Christmas and live many states away from my bro) and life happened, so I never got around to finishing the season. I do find myself occasionally wondering how it ended (like enough times I keep thinking I should just watch it already) so you covering it would be wonderful lol.
8:36 I don't think it's any more tragic that better performing children will also be taken...surely the horror comes from viewing children as nothing but numbers in the first place...
This makes it clear that the government only chose that criterion to rationalise what's happening, trying to feel in control, while really being too panicked to come to a proper conclusion.
While I can understand that it might be a well built scene... Capaldi's character final scene just enrages me. He had his family abandon for many years by prioritizing his work, and when tragedy is about to knock on his door he dares to choose what is good for them. Not even his wife is allowed to know what he is about to, making her last moments a scene of his husband shooting her kids no reason. All the series trying to get to him, to make him have more time with them, just for him to choose over their lives.
Except for wishful thinking, there's no reason for Jack to hope his grandson is immortal, as no one seems to think his daughter is, and Steven shares only about 25% of Jack's DNA. Also, most epigenetic traits are not hereditary, and we don't know what exactly changed when he was resurrected by Rose.
it was the shots heard, that shock me He killed the two daughters first, then the wife and he regenerated to the 12th doctor. Bad joke, but haunting scene.
Miracle Day is underrated... By no means does it reach the highs of Children Of Earth and was fairly unnecessary and Americanised BUT the concept alone is a very interesting one and there are some absolute chilling scenes throughout the series too
I don't mind the concept of Miracle Day tbh, I just don't like most of the characters and how different it is. Basically is it wasn't 'Torchwood' it'd fine mostly fine
Hey say what you want about Miracle Day but I actually really like it. Don't get me wrong I had my grievances but on a recent rewatch I realised it's actually kinda good. Sure it's got it's issues and the reason behind "the miracle" makes very little sense to me and it just seems a bit stupid but there's some amazing moments between jack and Gwen and some amazing political stuff. All I'm saying is it doesn't deserve all the hate it gets. Is it the weakest series yes, is it a bad series no.
Day 5 is the only bad episode in coe, And even then it has the Frobisher scenes which are impeccable Honestly if the ending had been given more time to breathe and day 5 were half an hour longer it could be one of the best series of television ever, as it is the ending just feels rushed to me But John Frobisher is genuinely one of if not the most interesting character in fiction and his scenes in this series are perfect
any time i rewatch Torchwood I always only watch S1 and S2, I never watch COE or Miracle Day as COE excessive politics really bores me and Miracle Day just breaks established canon so much that it seems like a bad fanfiction.
I was in Poland for the exact same 5 day schedule of these reviews and I’ve enjoyed every second of both. Miracle Day is a load of meh. They basically tried to do Children of Earth again but with double the amount of episodes and an Americanised following generated from an Americanised budget. If you review it at some point I’ll still tune in, but it’s incredibly draining just to watch it, let alone review it. 👍🟦
![DID IT SUCK? | Torchwood [CHILDREN OF EARTH - DAY 1 REVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_Q4430L2oNY/mqdefault.jpg)
![DID IT SUCK? | Torchwood [CHILDREN OF EARTH - DAY 1 REVIEW]](/img/tr.png)
![DID IT SUCK? Doctor Who [THE LAZARUS EXPERIMENT REVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/96qUggyjfq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey folks, thank you all so much for joining me on this deep-dive into one of my favourite mini-series of all time. These videos as one glorious whole adds up to being the longest video I've made to date, and it's the video I'm most proud of! Before Who Series (14? 1? Idk anymore..) I will be making a king-size analysis video of the movie Midsommar (2019), as well as recording some reaction videos and answering the mountain of questions you guys have left for me on the discord server (in video form again). See you guys on the next one!
Now we need Miracle Day
gl with Miracle Day, if anything, its not Torchwood but a late 2000s spy espionage show
@@WhatsASherlock Ninth Doctor: No
I love these episode over 5 days, more you can do with this. Andor, the rest of sherlock!
new earth review when?
What makes the deaths of Frobisher's family worse is the fact that it was completely pointless in the end. Jack was ultimately able to beat the 456 and prevent any of the children being taken away to a fate worse than death, meaning that while Frobisher believed he was doing what was best for his family by sparing them from that nightmarish fate, he didn't need to do something as terrible as that in the first place
He brings it on himself, the operation he helped create gets used against him, and he finally stands up for himself when it's too late.
Miracle Day is definitely a hidden gem to me. It's not as good as children of earth but that's like saying a hamburger isn't as good as filet mignon. It's a solid season of television with some great concepts and ideas as well as some amazing character development for Gwen and Jack.
Exactly! Miracle Day may not be on the level of Children of Earth but it is leaps and bounds better than Torchwood's first 2 series, I honestly loved it.
Dominion (2018) is sadder than any of them
I don't remember the ending of this series. But my god I remember the family suicide scene. It's all I remember tbf other than the general plot. Haunting.
Can you imagine if Harriet Jones Prime Minister was around for this ?
Harriet Jones would have kicked alien assets...see "The Christmas Invasion "!!!
Yes I know who you are
I think this is the first time I have ever heard someone suggest that Jack’s grandson could have been immortal.
About the Vortex-manipulator: think Hitchhiker's Guide.
The teleportation feature being off doesn't stop communicatioons etc. So he used it first to pick up a passing ship on his sensors and then sent a ping asking for a lift. Everything's wrapped up neatly with a bow using a literary trope from a sci-fi legend, I call that satisfactory. :P
I actually really love Miracle Day, it's the only season of Torchwood that I've watched multiple times (Tosh and Ianto's deaths, and Owen being stuck just consciously rotting away are too much for me to watch again.)
Same here! I've watched it multiple times myself. Such a good season! I love that they're no longer on their home turf, it makes for very interesting scenes :)
I kind of like Owen's season 2 journey. He doesn't deserve it but it's a great contrast to Jack's own immortality.
Thank you! Miracle Day finally getting some love! It's a good season, guys. Those who haven't watched it, you're missing out.
Agreed, Children of Earth is better but Miracle Day is still great.
Miracle Day had a brilliant premise and promising opening, and borrowed the concept that worked so well in CoE of “How would governments react in a worldwide crisis”. This style of Torchwood works better than the DW/SJA approach of a “Monster of the week” type show IMO.
However the execution wasn’t great, the show was too drawn out over 10 episodes and I personally didn’t find Rex and Esther that likable as characters, whereas the other 5 main torchwood cast I had an instant connection with.
Would love to see a review on it from Harry though!
I don’t remember if it was a fan theory or a detail Russell mentioned one time, but one of the most interesting ideas I heard about Frobisher is that he is the descendant of Caecillius, the character Capaldi played in Fires of Pompeii, and his story ends the way it does because this is Time correcting itself by removing them after the Doctor originally saved them. (Though this idea would be somewhat contradicted by the cast reunion video during Lockdown but I digress 😂)
If true that this was sort of the thematic implication, that adds so much more substance to the tragedy of the character. Frobisher, from the start, is viewed as expendable and living on borrowed time, in a political sense. But it’s only when confronted by the PM that his daughters will be the sacrifice to keep the rest of them looking good that he realises how literal that idea is. What’s more, he took matters into his own hands mere hours before they all could have been saved, making the tragedy of his character that much more impactful. It’s just such a dark twist to think about Donna’s plea ending up being in vain, that the Doctor’s loving act to save them from the fires only left “them” to the much darker fate of being killed by their own father.
There’s just so much to say about that scene where not a single word is spoken. One of the darkest and most powerful scenes in the Whoniverse for sure.
Russell did confirm it! It was in the Torchwood Declassified episode "Cracking Children of Earth". Russell suggested that Frobisher may be a descendant of Caecilius, and says that in a sense, Frobisher's killing of his family brings closure to the saving of Caecilius' family in The Fires of Pompeii. That was then further confirmed by Moffat who said that Frobisher's suicide was time's way of "reasserting itself".
Miracle day is a great story as long as you don’t think too long and hard about how the miracle works. It is certainly worth watching tho !!
I personally think it is worth you giving miracle day a go. Don't get me wrong, it is not as good as children earth, but it also does a great job if exploring dark themes.
I literally watched this when i was 8 years old, with my siblings (most definitely shouldn't have been). I always remembered that Frobisher scene with his family.
brilliant review harry can ,t wait for your review of miracle day
tbf, miracle day isnt all that bad. its never recommended because it feels unsatisfying and overly bloated, but some episodes, scenes, and ideas come across really well, especially with the same darkness - albeit lacking some maturity - as children of earth. its still worth the watch for its ambition and concept alone.
Really enjoyed your analysis over the last five days of this series. Really hope you get to review Miracle Day.
Just got done watching all 5 parts of the review. Amazing job man- we’d absolutely love you to come on the podcast one day if you ever get a second. Huge fans 🙏🙏🙏
deffo do mircale day love these videos.
that intro took me OUT 🤣 love your videos mate!
Appreciate all the time that went into this Harry!
I honestly think you'll enjoy analysing Miracle Day. Yes, its Americanised to all hell, it doesn't fit into the whoniverse canon and the actual cause/resolution of the event is a little too theological for my liking, but there's some interesting stuff in there about (once again) the human respose to the event and the practical societal effects such an event would cause. Be warned, there are some more heavy themes (potentially even heavier) but since they only really impact underwritten characters they don't hit quite as hard as the ones explored by Children of Earth. Looking forward to your say on it!
She records the PM to damage his career as revenge for what he did to John Frobisher. He was her best friend she may have even loved him maybe they nearly got together but decided to stay friends. So knowing it was the PM to was going to sacrifice his children and knowing it lead to his suicide of course she wanted to ruin the PMs life and career. We even see her stare at him scenes earlier with blood bpiling hate and the background music indicated something was going to happen between them.
Her and John were not the main characters or even that essential but they were showing how even those within government especially the ones who want to be good even if not all the time are the ones that become victims. He lost his life and his family likely remembered as a psycho that killed his family and she has to live grieving his loss trying to repair his reputation and likely getting some hate for being part of government all while the higher ups clean their hands.
Also, there's two other doctor who Seasons you could watch that follow the same format as Children of Earth and Miracle. They are called The Key to Time and Trial of a Timelord. Just, imagine someone having to critically analyse them.
Honestly miracle day isn't that bad but it has thonas and the magic railroad syndrome
As a standalone separate universe separated from everything it's not too bad, but the moment you try to canonise it it's stupid and makes no god damn sense like, it's one of those storyline where you need the doctor to make it work, like the 456 storyline kind of works being doctorlite as it's not a potentially earth ending threat, other than if their demands weren't met that is, but miracle day just, it would work better as a connected whoniverse plot, we needed Sarah Jane and Mickley and Martha, plus having unit there too would have made it work so much better, or strip jack gwen and rhys out of it and have some ex-unit staff decide they want to bring torchwood back in secret, still having that whoniverse connection but making the whole thing make more sense, hell have some unit action if need be as a sort of "we need some help can we borrow a few bits?" Sort of thing, maybe have Martha be that contact, that way she can be trying to get ahold of the doctor but have it where he's busy doing the doctors wife at that point so phone signal can't get through, and if it still has to be wrapped up the same way have Jack beam in like "did someone call for a doctor? Sorry ladies and gentlemen he's busy so I'm here to help!" Just something where he's not just on earth just because
Miracle day is pretty bad I'll admit, BUT there are some excellent horror themes apart of it. If it went further into these themes and axed the side plots then I think it would be really good. I still don't think its as bad as its perceived but I don't think its good.
Jack being killed repeatedly in the flashbacks made me feel so bad for him just shackled frozen in shock being cleand by the guy who betrayed him
Really great work on the seires I love your reviews. I massively look forward to your opinions of Miricle Day but also the new series of Disneys Dr who! Lots to look forward to on the channel!
Thanks for the series Harry 😊 and good luck for the Miracle Day watch 😬
I feel for you Harry, I really do... I did try to watch Miracle Day but it never grabbed me... I have heard that Children of Earth / Miracle Day were supposed to be the Big Events of Season 3 of Torchwood - But teh BBC decided to cut teh budget meaning that they ended up as Two Multi Part Specials and Not part of a full series... Which also meant that possibly they are also both out of sequence and Miracle day was supposed to be BEFORE Children of Earth and had Hasty Rewrites to make it fit...
Obviously speculation... The only thing any one is 100% sure of is that initially there was a 13 episode Season 3 planned and then it would Cap off with Children of Earth! And the BBC put the Kibosh on that plan!
How odd, my brother loved Miracle Day. I had dropped Torchwood after the first season, but he made me watch season 4 so I always assumed that was the best season lol. It felt pretty standalone too, almost like a series reboot. I liked the premise too, though I ended up returning home (I was visiting due to Christmas and live many states away from my bro) and life happened, so I never got around to finishing the season. I do find myself occasionally wondering how it ended (like enough times I keep thinking I should just watch it already) so you covering it would be wonderful lol.
8:36 I don't think it's any more tragic that better performing children will also be taken...surely the horror comes from viewing children as nothing but numbers in the first place...
This makes it clear that the government only chose that criterion to rationalise what's happening, trying to feel in control, while really being too panicked to come to a proper conclusion.
And at what point was the individual performance of children mentioned? I only remember a discussion over different schools
While I can understand that it might be a well built scene... Capaldi's character final scene just enrages me.
He had his family abandon for many years by prioritizing his work, and when tragedy is about to knock on his door he dares to choose what is good for them.
Not even his wife is allowed to know what he is about to, making her last moments a scene of his husband shooting her kids no reason.
All the series trying to get to him, to make him have more time with them, just for him to choose over their lives.
I think it's be funny for you to do a review of Miracle day because there are some good episodes but a lot of the plot points make 0 sense XD
Do not watch Miracle Day even ironically, just listen to Death of Captain Jack, it does a good job of covering the events of the 10 episode story.
Except for wishful thinking, there's no reason for Jack to hope his grandson is immortal, as no one seems to think his daughter is, and Steven shares only about 25% of Jack's DNA. Also, most epigenetic traits are not hereditary, and we don't know what exactly changed when he was resurrected by Rose.
i like the idea of miracle day the first half is nice
it was the shots heard, that shock me He killed the two daughters first, then the wife and he regenerated to the 12th doctor. Bad joke, but haunting scene.
Miracle day review yeeeeahhhhh!!!
I WILL FIGHT ANYONE WHO BADMOUTHS MIRACLE DAY! IT WAS THE BEST SEASON OF TORCHWOOD
Great series, loved watching your takes on it…
But pleaseee watch the America series 😂
Miracle Day is underrated... By no means does it reach the highs of Children Of Earth and was fairly unnecessary and Americanised BUT the concept alone is a very interesting one and there are some absolute chilling scenes throughout the series too
I don't mind the concept of Miracle Day tbh, I just don't like most of the characters and how different it is. Basically is it wasn't 'Torchwood' it'd fine mostly fine
Don’t sleep on Miracle Day. It’s not up to Children of Earth standards (frankly, what is?), but it is bloody good TV.
Hey say what you want about Miracle Day but I actually really like it. Don't get me wrong I had my grievances but on a recent rewatch I realised it's actually kinda good. Sure it's got it's issues and the reason behind "the miracle" makes very little sense to me and it just seems a bit stupid but there's some amazing moments between jack and Gwen and some amazing political stuff. All I'm saying is it doesn't deserve all the hate it gets. Is it the weakest series yes, is it a bad series no.
Do miracle day!!!!
Day 5 is the only bad episode in coe,
And even then it has the Frobisher scenes which are impeccable
Honestly if the ending had been given more time to breathe and day 5 were half an hour longer it could be one of the best series of television ever, as it is the ending just feels rushed to me
But John Frobisher is genuinely one of if not the most interesting character in fiction and his scenes in this series are perfect
DO FALLOUT!!!
Hey. Miracle day was more enjoyable than s1/2
any time i rewatch Torchwood I always only watch S1 and S2, I never watch COE or Miracle Day as COE excessive politics really bores me and Miracle Day just breaks established canon so much that it seems like a bad fanfiction.
I was in Poland for the exact same 5 day schedule of these reviews and I’ve enjoyed every second of both. Miracle Day is a load of meh. They basically tried to do Children of Earth again but with double the amount of episodes and an Americanised following generated from an Americanised budget. If you review it at some point I’ll still tune in, but it’s incredibly draining just to watch it, let alone review it. 👍🟦