Hi Richard, the reason that your 2 sticks of RAM works in Single Channel mode, albeit recognized by capacity, is the cause of one was being dual-side populated, which means different ICs capacity than the single-sided one, so the RAM sticks are not matched. Note that both other pairs you tried were dual-side populated, hence it was recognized as a Dual Channel mode, as well as the capacity. Hope this helps. Cheers.
This sounds correct, but not totally correct. It seems to be a very complex subject. For example when I googled, in the first page of hits, this tutorial says that single sided dimms have chips on one side and double sided dimms have them on both side like you pointed out. www.cgdirector.com/single-vs-double-sided-memory/ and then goes on to talk about single rank and double rank dimms which are not the same thing as single/double sided But this link says that a dimm can have chips on one side or on both sides and *still* be single or double sided regardless. www.oreilly.com/library/view/comptia-a-certification/9780470487389/9780470487389_single_sided_versus_double_sided.html This seems to make more sense because how does the BIOS/CPU possibly know where the chips are physically mounted on the dimm? They could be soldered anywhere on there. But then this also means you can't say a dimm is single or double sided just by looking if there are chips on both sides or not! Which contradicts the first tutorial - and they can't both be correct 🥴 So which is it?
@@LearnElectronicsRepair You are correct, and of course have the 'paperwork' to comply, but what I have written, is a 'rule of thumb' and from my experiance. To explain how the BIOS/CPU 'knows' the size, configuration and rank (and even speed), on the DIMM stick itself there is a SPI (kind of BIOS) with all the stick parametes, including even chip manufacturer and model, as not all manufacturers are complient to others, ex. Micron vs. Samsung.
@@MichaelRabeno Out of interest do you know when SPI ROM first appeared on dimms? I think it may be from DDR3 onwards, and not on previous ones but I couldn't find a quick answer to that on google. I'm sure by the way that your explanation of why the dimms did not work in dual channel mode is correct. From what I learned a bit earlier it is because so called 'single side' dimms are addressable in a single block of contiguous memory, and so called 'double sided' ones are not. So that is something new I learned today 🙂
The nasty corroded motherboard has volunteered to be a guinea pig for abuse by various solvents (which is not the same thing as solvent abuse by the way) so I will be picking up on some of the suggestions in the comments below and we can see which if any do the job 🤓
For the corrosion white vinegar works great. Cover the area in vinegar and leave it to sit. A paper towel folded in half and soaked in vinegar will slot into the agp socket and keep the vinegar in contact with the pins. Leave for a few hours then wash the board with soapy water after. I've used this method on many damaged pcbs now. Keep up the great vids!
The cause of reflection (glare) is when the light source reflects directly into the camera. Such as a ring light and camera directly above the microscope. Ring lights have their purpose, but when there is reflective surfaces (like a puddle of liquid flux) it's better to use 2 light sources (one on each side) at about 45 degree angle. This way only diffused light reaches the camera, or your eyes if looking through the eye piece. I noticed that you have two light on you prior set up, but only you know what angle you had them set at. Northbridge Fix (UA-cam channel) did a really good video on showing the visual effects of the differences and when a combination of both lighting sources (ring light and side lights) is best.
I think this is something worth experimenting with. You are quite correct, the problem at the moment is not having any stupid sized bolts (aka not metric ones) so I am having to mount the overhead flourecent light almost directly above the camera because I don't have anything else to support one side of it. It's jsut teething problems really, the setup is working pretty good as Det helped me to lash it together and I am sure I will have it sorted properly quite soon. And yes it's also worth putting all this on video, I know quite a few of you guys are interested in how to setup YT recording systems for an electronics bench. Like others I have had to kinda make it up as I go along as I had no previous experience/knowledge in this area, my fisrt videos were shot on a mobile phone and there is no-one out there teaching how to set up a recording system in this scenario.
i think the reason why the ram is remaining in single channel is because 1 stick is dual rank (so memory modules on both sides of its pcb) and the other is single rank (plain pcb)..some boards can be fussy...it looks like that board doesn't necessarily like dual rank memory. lol
Greetings Richard, I completely forgot to mention to you just after watching the video that the QDI board you show near the end of the video support the PIII Tualatin chips that it why some of the eBay sales looked amazingly high... (P6V694T Advance 18T) not sure if that sale included one of these super expensive CPU or not but the motherboard by itself is more expensive and uncommon than tegular S370 ones. Thanks for all the teaching. Best regards Alberto. Edit: just checked out that reference at Ebay and yes, there is someone selling this QDI model with just a P3 1.0EB for 140€ and had sold 3 already! So good score!
I think the only way to really get rid of corrosion is to use an ultrasonic cleaner. The cost to buy one might be a little expensive, but it's not very difficult (or expensive) to build one. Ultrasonic cleaners get into ever nook and cranny and blasts off the dirt and corrosion at the microscopic level, without harming anything. It might be a good project for your channel. Ultrasonic transducers aren't very expensive and I've seen kitchen sinks (for the tub) at the car boot sales :).
I'd say that your single channel problem comes from the RAM chip layout on the RAM strips. One is single sided, the other is double sided. IIRC, this is/was of some importance.
With all the spare machines/drives you have you should set up a Ceph cluster. This would allow you to infinitely upgrade and increase your storage as you pick up drives. You can also remove smaller drives with larger one's, without losing anything. The newer bigger drive will just replace the older drive and replicate your data.
I should say you can also mix and match any machine/drive combination and put them in/take them out as you like. You just need a switch so they can speak to each other
22:46 Bummer. An AGP/C2D mainboard is somewhat of a holy grail for us retro enthusiasts, they’ve eluded me thus far, perhaps one day I’ll find one. I was also gonna comment on your single channel problem being due to a single sided module, but others in the comments have already mentioned that.
I have two Jon that support AGP and C2D, one is the AGP+PCIe board I showed a little later in this video (which also supports C2Q and Extreme which make it even more desirable), the other is an ECS P4M800PRO-M V2.0 and is working nicely in one of my retro rigs but only supports C2D. Beware the V1.0 of the same board does not support core 2, I've found a few others over the last few years with this combo and sold them, so it is possible i may find more in future.
@@TheDurdane Not in general, though some of of the fastest C2Q are worth a bit of money and the Core 2 quad 'extreme' CPU such as Qx9650 definitely are worth finding in flea market PC to make a profit. Or to keep for now as an investment. These have gone up in value quite a bit since I bought one couple of years ago www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311&_nkw=intel+core+2+extreme+qx9650&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=core+2+quad&_osacat=0
Heya, nice retro pc opening and looking for the surprice that maybe in there love to see that. that's a nice setup that you now have. not even bad cap's to replace wouw lol
Ive got the AsRock 939A8X-M right now ($100AUD)with the HD3850 ($200AUD) running XP and Win 7 32 bit - its taken 3 weeks full on trial and error work out which windows was stable with 240gb SSds its unstable with Win 7 64bit and more stable with only 2 gigs ram - its windows 7 when its unstable not the XP runs fine - The CPU (AMD X2 4800+) is the bottle neck at the moment - id love a quad core Asrock to really push the video card - wanna sell it ???????????????????? i almost had a US seller prepared to sell one for $110 usd but his shipping was ridiculous
Hi Richard, the reason that your 2 sticks of RAM works in Single Channel mode, albeit recognized by capacity, is the cause of one was being dual-side populated, which means different ICs capacity than the single-sided one, so the RAM sticks are not matched. Note that both other pairs you tried were dual-side populated, hence it was recognized as a Dual Channel mode, as well as the capacity. Hope this helps. Cheers.
You are right on that one
Came down here to say just that, good job 👏🏻
This sounds correct, but not totally correct. It seems to be a very complex subject. For example when I googled, in the first page of hits, this tutorial says that single sided dimms have chips on one side and double sided dimms have them on both side like you pointed out.
www.cgdirector.com/single-vs-double-sided-memory/
and then goes on to talk about single rank and double rank dimms which are not the same thing as single/double sided
But this link says that a dimm can have chips on one side or on both sides and *still* be single or double sided regardless.
www.oreilly.com/library/view/comptia-a-certification/9780470487389/9780470487389_single_sided_versus_double_sided.html
This seems to make more sense because how does the BIOS/CPU possibly know where the chips are physically mounted on the dimm? They could be soldered anywhere on there. But then this also means you can't say a dimm is single or double sided just by looking if there are chips on both sides or not! Which contradicts the first tutorial - and they can't both be correct 🥴 So which is it?
@@LearnElectronicsRepair You are correct, and of course have the 'paperwork' to comply, but what I have written, is a 'rule of thumb' and from my experiance. To explain how the BIOS/CPU 'knows' the size, configuration and rank (and even speed), on the DIMM stick itself there is a SPI (kind of BIOS) with all the stick parametes, including even chip manufacturer and model, as not all manufacturers are complient to others, ex. Micron vs. Samsung.
@@MichaelRabeno Out of interest do you know when SPI ROM first appeared on dimms? I think it may be from DDR3 onwards, and not on previous ones but I couldn't find a quick answer to that on google. I'm sure by the way that your explanation of why the dimms did not work in dual channel mode is correct. From what I learned a bit earlier it is because so called 'single side' dimms are addressable in a single block of contiguous memory, and so called 'double sided' ones are not. So that is something new I learned today 🙂
The nasty corroded motherboard has volunteered to be a guinea pig for abuse by various solvents (which is not the same thing as solvent abuse by the way) so I will be picking up on some of the suggestions in the comments below and we can see which if any do the job 🤓
For the corrosion white vinegar works great. Cover the area in vinegar and leave it to sit. A paper towel folded in half and soaked in vinegar will slot into the agp socket and keep the vinegar in contact with the pins. Leave for a few hours then wash the board with soapy water after. I've used this method on many damaged pcbs now.
Keep up the great vids!
The cause of reflection (glare) is when the light source reflects directly into the camera. Such as a ring light and camera directly above the microscope. Ring lights have their purpose, but when there is reflective surfaces (like a puddle of liquid flux) it's better to use 2 light sources (one on each side) at about 45 degree angle. This way only diffused light reaches the camera, or your eyes if looking through the eye piece. I noticed that you have two light on you prior set up, but only you know what angle you had them set at. Northbridge Fix (UA-cam channel) did a really good video on showing the visual effects of the differences and when a combination of both lighting sources (ring light and side lights) is best.
I think this is something worth experimenting with. You are quite correct, the problem at the moment is not having any stupid sized bolts (aka not metric ones) so I am having to mount the overhead flourecent light almost directly above the camera because I don't have anything else to support one side of it. It's jsut teething problems really, the setup is working pretty good as Det helped me to lash it together and I am sure I will have it sorted properly quite soon. And yes it's also worth putting all this on video, I know quite a few of you guys are interested in how to setup YT recording systems for an electronics bench. Like others I have had to kinda make it up as I go along as I had no previous experience/knowledge in this area, my fisrt videos were shot on a mobile phone and there is no-one out there teaching how to set up a recording system in this scenario.
i think the reason why the ram is remaining in single channel is because 1 stick is dual rank (so memory modules on both sides of its pcb) and the other is single rank (plain pcb)..some boards can be fussy...it looks like that board doesn't necessarily like dual rank memory. lol
19:19 dual rank is ok but BOTH modules must be the same. better if identical.. he was mixing dual rank and single rank
Spot on 👏🏻
Greetings Richard, I completely forgot to mention to you just after watching the video that the QDI board you show near the end of the video support the PIII Tualatin chips that it why some of the eBay sales looked amazingly high... (P6V694T Advance 18T) not sure if that sale included one of these super expensive CPU or not but the motherboard by itself is more expensive and uncommon than tegular S370 ones.
Thanks for all the teaching.
Best regards Alberto.
Edit: just checked out that reference at Ebay and yes, there is someone selling this QDI model with just a P3 1.0EB for 140€ and had sold 3 already! So good score!
I think the only way to really get rid of corrosion is to use an ultrasonic cleaner. The cost to buy one might be a little expensive, but it's not very difficult (or expensive) to build one. Ultrasonic cleaners get into ever nook and cranny and blasts off the dirt and corrosion at the microscopic level, without harming anything. It might be a good project for your channel. Ultrasonic transducers aren't very expensive and I've seen kitchen sinks (for the tub) at the car boot sales :).
My mate put a mb board in the dishwasher and it came up mint. He cleaned it after with ipa but all worked fine.
I'd say that your single channel problem comes from the RAM chip layout on the RAM strips. One is single sided, the other is double sided. IIRC, this is/was of some importance.
☝🏻
Great video! Always love to see some good old classic parts working again!
With lighting, if you turn it to face towards the ceiling, it will diffuse the light nicely if it's white and won't give you that glare.
OK can give that a go also, thanks
With all the spare machines/drives you have you should set up a Ceph cluster. This would allow you to infinitely upgrade and increase your storage as you pick up drives. You can also remove smaller drives with larger one's, without losing anything. The newer bigger drive will just replace the older drive and replicate your data.
I should say you can also mix and match any machine/drive combination and put them in/take them out as you like. You just need a switch so they can speak to each other
Those 2 ramsticks have a different layout. One has chips on 1 side the other on both sides. Therefore it cannot work in dual channel.
22:46 Bummer. An AGP/C2D mainboard is somewhat of a holy grail for us retro enthusiasts, they’ve eluded me thus far, perhaps one day I’ll find one.
I was also gonna comment on your single channel problem being due to a single sided module, but others in the comments have already mentioned that.
I have two Jon that support AGP and C2D, one is the AGP+PCIe board I showed a little later in this video (which also supports C2Q and Extreme which make it even more desirable), the other is an ECS P4M800PRO-M V2.0 and is working nicely in one of my retro rigs but only supports C2D. Beware the V1.0 of the same board does not support core 2, I've found a few others over the last few years with this combo and sold them, so it is possible i may find more in future.
@@LearnElectronicsRepair What is C2D exactly?
@@TheDurdane Intel Core2Duo Processors
Ah those... Thanks. Btw I have quite some C2D and C2Q processors, are these collectible?
@@TheDurdane Not in general, though some of of the fastest C2Q are worth a bit of money and the Core 2 quad 'extreme' CPU such as Qx9650 definitely are worth finding in flea market PC to make a profit. Or to keep for now as an investment. These have gone up in value quite a bit since I bought one couple of years ago
www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311&_nkw=intel+core+2+extreme+qx9650&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=core+2+quad&_osacat=0
for the corrosion use deoxit !!
deoxit that socket!
Having breakfast here on the other side of the pond looking at 3:21 🤢 trying to swallow tea and toast 🥴
the first board maybe a ultrasonic clean would do better ??
Heya, nice retro pc opening and looking for the surprice that maybe in there love to see that. that's a nice setup that you now have. not even bad cap's to replace wouw lol
that first board looked like an instant bin job
Yeah it does not look good. We could have some fun with it though trying different solvents on it. Or use it as a donor at least
@@LearnElectronicsRepair yeah I guess so but is it worth the time
@@2009numan depends if you want to be entertained 😉
I would say those ram sockets are violet rather than purple
I asked. The Julie is out on that one 😂
I think the colour is Blurple :)
I'll run that one past the missus 😉
She says that's OK. You're Cheeky (apparently), but OK. So you're safe too 😉
@28:34 sounds like he says Lila and that's purple in Swedish lol
Hi Richard!
Hes so friendly :)
Meh, i guessed a s3 virge :( As the machine was too new for a trio64V+. So close.
According to Google Translate the color Lila (in German) translates to Purple (in English). So nobody disagrees. It's purple!
I dare you to attempt a Zip 100 USB with the click of death.
I believe you should agree it is really mauve. Its not purple and its not any shade of blue either.
I asked Julie about this and she thinks Mauve is an acceptable description - lucky for you LOL 🤣
I wouldn't pay more than a tenner for it myself
❤
SiS boards are usually not worth that much, and this one is too far gone imho.
Ok, that first one exceeds the worst I've seen so far in all my years. Brutal.
You'd be a champ to get that thing working again.
If you have a dishwasher, toss it in there.
yeah P4 and pentium D - dual cores N/A = you wouldnt pay $150 usd for that
Ive got the AsRock 939A8X-M right now ($100AUD)with the HD3850 ($200AUD) running XP and Win 7 32 bit - its taken 3 weeks full on trial and error work out which windows was stable with 240gb SSds its unstable with Win 7 64bit and more stable with only 2 gigs ram - its windows 7 when its unstable not the XP runs fine - The CPU (AMD X2 4800+) is the bottle neck at the moment - id love a quad core Asrock to really push the video card - wanna sell it ???????????????????? i almost had a US seller prepared to sell one for $110 usd but his shipping was ridiculous