As an autistic individual who absolutely adores Steins;Gate, it never once occured to me to consider Okabe as an autistic coded person, but it makes so much sense now that you point it out.
I mean makes sense. Japan doesn't explicitly tell you those details. Unlike in the west where people do a big celebration for every "representation" there is. For bad as they could be.
I have a coworker with an autistic stepson, and this middle aged woman unironically told me "Autistic people are supposed to be super smart, like that show The Good Doctor." God help that kid.
Sadly it's hard for people to understand that media is representative of it isn't the real thing since people very dumb we tend to just assume that any job is being accurately portrayed on TV
@@bonzoluv Unfortunately it's what the dumb mass audience wants to see your average viewer doesn't want to see reality the brutal truths of the world and the average audience wants to see things as much more good and just then things actually are television movies and video games are inherently about entertainment and most people unfortunately just wouldn't you an actual artistic person struggles as entertaining it would just bum them out and make them seek out some other form of entertainment that is entertaining to them
I feel like if you get fired you should do that tho, Not because you'd be expected to but purely for the jokes, I've got ADHD and for the joke I will randomly go "Squirrel!" and look off in the distance in the middle of a Conversation.
@@lumethecrow if you are honestly saying youve never been overloaded to the point of seeing red and just screaming nonsense then I think you should consider yourself lucky. Outbursts like these are so common, and belittling them is just so sad to see. We see Shaun nearly lose his shit over a screwdriver, now he's potentially losing his job and you are shocked he lost his damn mind for a moment?
@@kristienwhitney-johns5863 I have been overloaded to that point, yes. But I'm mature and have enough of a handle over my own mind to not freak out over it. I understand that the spectrum ain't all the same, but someone who can't handle an environment like that simply shouldn't be working there. I believe another comment said there's a reason you don't see wheelchair bound firefighters and such
@lumethecrow i completely agree that the show is ridiculous suggesting Shaun could work in a hospital as a surgeon. But your comment seemed to be pushing this idea that an autistic outburst brought on from sensory overload just isn't a thing. And I think we both know it is, so making light of it just doesn't sit right. To be absolutely clear, I hate this show. However, the representation of autism is mostly very honest to reality. Honestly, the worse bit for me is how Shaun "gets better" over the seasons. Which is just insulting, treating autism like the common cold.
The problem with autism in media is that it's often represented to be inspirational. The narrative structure is almost always about overcoming obstacles. We need more stories with autistic characters whose arcs aren't about overcoming adversity. Let them struggle just like allistic characters; heck, let them fail. The most important part about writing an autistic character is writing them as a *character.*
Thats why I love Tech from The Bad Batch. He is clearly autistic (hell, in some way the entire squad is, even Omega in a way). Yet his arc has nothing to do with overcoming weaknesses, but about using his strengths to its full potential and simply grow as a person. Something that doesnt need him to be autistic, but a real world problem he has his own ways to deal with and flavours of personal struggles.
Think the only character with autism is found two be a fair portrayal was Its okay not to be okay its a korean drama and its extends to a chat of many people dealing with issues. You canntell the directors and writers did allot of research.
I once brought this topic up in my philosophy class. Media tends to portrait autism as the both extremes of the spectrum. Either absolute babies, who cant look after themselves and need constant supervision, or genius and savants that are only a little bit awkward socially. It's literally 0 or 100 scale with no in between.
My boyfriend (who is on the spectrum) had an interesting take on this. The main part that bothered him with the portrayal in The Good Doctor is that they tried to eat their cake and have it too. Like the only way they could make an autistic character have a major role or do something important is by relying on the "autistic genius/autism as super power" trope, even though everything else about the character is highly emotional and indicates higher special needs. Basically he felt that the idea would have been better if they ditched the savant part and the robotic behaviors and instead had a story about a relatively high special needs person on the spectrum being a doctor. You don't really ever see those types of autistic characters be main characters. They're usually an accessory or an obstacle to overcome for an allistic character.
You and your boyfriend are far too intelligent for this show is the problem 😂 this is slop that's either for genuinely incurious people or for people who just want noise in the background
From an Aspie? It’s an interesting idea but it could only really be done a certain way, I can’t help making the comparison to Adrian Monk: he’s brilliant at solving puzzles and crimes but he needs someone with him constantly to make sure he doesn’t get distracted by the many-MANY little things that bother him so much he can’t function. So the new Shaun in your scenario would have to be like Adrian: a brilliant surgeon but in need of an assistant/carer always at his side who takes care of all the little annoyances … which in an OR where contamination is a very real danger simply could not work and I’m not sure how any writer could make it work in a semi-believable way …
I work with a lot of surgeons. Honestly, a lot of them make me think they’re on the spectrum with their constant high maintenance needs, constant breakdowns, and either overly emotional or robotic behavior. None of them are special savants, but they are great at what they do. They’re difficult to work with at first until you realize they’re not usually intentionally being rude. They are stubborn to a fault, very rigid, and usually have a strange sense of humor.
But the thing is, the version of the show you described wouldn't actually work. Shaun's medical genius is a plot device used by the writers to make general audiences more likely to watch a show that portrays the unique challenges and nuances of the daily life of a medium support needs autistic person trying to find his place in a neurotypical world. There are lots of shows about a main character who is super talented in their field of work, and this is just another one of those shows - only that character happens to be autistic this time. They literally phrase it that way in the first f*cking episode. Dr. Glassman says something like "Shaun has ASD. He also has savant syndrome." They LITERALLY separate these two aspects with intention from the get go. The Good Doctor is two shows at once - it is an episodic "hospital patient of the week" show, and it is also the personal life of a medium support needs autistic person. Once you separate those two things, it is much easier to enjoy the show. Say what you want, but this show did an INCREDIBLE JOB at successfully drawing in a wide range of audience demographics to watch a show about an autistic guy. Isnt that worth something?
I will never understand how the writing staff wanted us the viewers to think any of this was a good idea when the boss who literally got fired for "discriminating" against him ends up getting proved right when He literally freaks the hell out during his surgery just like predicted. Like no dude, its not discrimination to call out something for what it is. Its like calling it discriminatory to tell a drunk person they shouldn't drive.
Especially in a field is dangerous as medical surgery for those freak outs can literally get people killed And while I'm definitely against discrimination genuine discrimination I also understand that there's certain people who shouldn't be doing certain jobs like for example in this show whereas you point out someone really flips out during surgery like I don't care how talented the person is they shouldn't have the job In fact with the character being so mentally unstable and incapable of functioning how did they even get the required medical degrees being smart is only one part of the equation for getting those medical degrees it takes a lot of discipline hard work that no amount of intelligence lets you just skip and I don't believe this character is physically or mentally capable of actually doing it So many businesses have been destroyed because people who are physically handicapped sue places because it doesn't accommodate them being an employee when it's a small business and no it can't pay for a handicap service that is costing vastly more than that workers work ever could be worth heck There's literally people who have gotten jobs and then don't ever actually do the job because as soon as they get the job they simply say disability and then they can't apparently be fired for not doing their job or it's discrimination I remember hearing a story of a live in maid who immediately claimed she was handicapped due to her being fat and she refused to do an ounce of work for several years as the family kept trying to get her fired and kicked out of the house with anti discrimination laws basically forcing them to keep employing this person who had never put in a day's work they had to literally start doing things like putting a lock on the refrigerator so she couldn't steal their food
I'd prefer it if they could make a show that does actually depict real discrimination, 29% of UK autistic people are employed other 71% are not and it is due to prejudices that put them off employing autistic folk and they do use tactics to get away with it legally.
@@doloresgronenberg5882 It's an organization that says autistic people have something wrong with them. That they're less than human. They call autism a disease.
I stopped the show when Shauns neighbour wanted batteries for a PlayStation controller that was obviously powered by a built-in battery that had to be charged via cable.
@maximACMN Well uh, their historic ad campaigns painting autism as some sort of creeping, life-ruining curse and an ad where a mother says she planned to drive off a bridge with her on-the-spectrum child. Basically, they're the PETA of autism.
@@maximACMN they aren't trying to help, they have consistently treated it like a "sickness" to be purged or cured instead of a natural neurodivergence
@maximACMN With all due respect, autism is a lot of things, but an illness should not be one of the first things - let alone any of the things - people think about when they hear the term. Sure, everyone on the spectrum has different experiences and needs (hence the spectrum), but by treating it as some sort of horrible ailment both the people with it and their loved ones are only going to be impacted negatively in the long run. It's part of why the puzzle piece motif is considered harmful; it implies autistic people are "not right/finished" or otherwise need to be "fixed", rather than accepting their behaviors and considering that things like their pattern recognition, detail orientation, etc. can open up new potential and avenues for them. I don't mean to be *that guy*, but I really wish people on the spectrum would stop being treated like cursed folk in some form or another. It's not everywhere, but when it is I can't help but worry and hope their treatment improves in the future.
I have watched a few episodes on Disney plus and to be honest, I don’t like how the Boss hired Shaun because he’s autistic and wants the hospital to look more inclusive. What really crawled into my skin is how he compared autistics to women and black people.
Exactly. He should hire him because he's competent, not because he's autistic. And I'm saying this as an autistic person. Hence why Shaun honestly sucks as a surgeon, like I said in the video
I'd quit any job that I got JUST because of my autism (unless it was like, an advocacy thing or something). No way that's gonna be a good work environment.
The first episode of the show started with a board meeting discussing whether or not to hire him with the majority of them unwilling to hire him due to his austism. The main reason he got hired was that the president of the hospital, who is Shaun's guardian, was willing to demote himself if Shaun was less than perfect and one of them really wanted to the president of the hospital.
Yeah I mean let's be clear, he was hired because he is a savant. The autism is just the icing on the cake. I know people have issues with DEI but I hope to God that people don't actually hire incompetent people just because they aren't straight or white or male or typical.
I once saw someone explain that the reason characters are decided to be autistic by fans and liked vs autistic characters internationally played as such is that actual autistic people don't "act" autistic. They ACT like they're "normal." A drunk person doesn't act drunk, they act sober. So when an actor has to act drunk, they have to act like they are the most sober person ever actually. And once it was explained like that it really clicked why actors playing autistic characters never come across quite correctly.
@@ThePrincessCHsome cases are more obvious on the surface, especially when the autistic person doesn’t mask, but it’s very atypical for shows to portray higher needs, more “obvious” autistic people in the first place. Any good acting us In subtly, the direction and writing of the character, and showing traits that only some would catch onto as potential autism is incredibly hard to get right, especially when the writers and actor aren’t autistic themselves
That is why autistic people generally like autistic coded characters much more than canonically autistic characters; they have a personality outside of being autistic. You know, characters like Newt Scamander, Monkey D. Luffy or Rainbow Dash.
@@blackdragon5274 I would not go so far as to say the group identities of actors and the characters they play need to match, but the movie does not get to score any diversity points if they don't.
I feel like this show is terrible autism representation since its constantly reminding us that shaun is autistic and it just feels like the show wants us to forgive Shaun for his actions due to "He'S aUtIsTIC He DoESn'T kNow BeTteR" like dude literally walked up to the girl he liked with a baseball intending to smash her car to bits becuase she rejected him, how did Leah forgive him for that IDK that's a massive red flag in my book, but moving on I feel this show has actually set back people's understanding of autism and how autistic people becuase people look at Shaun and assume every autistic person is like that or worse when in reality most autistic people are just people and not everyone is a mess like Shaun and its just so sad becuase I did like the show but Shaun and his autism being shoved in our face every episode made me not like the show.... this is coming from someone with autistic siblings and friends...its bad rep.
It reminds me a bit of a bad experience I had in High School. You see, being a fairly progressive, mostly Marxist individual, I hung out with a group consisting mostly of LGBT+ and/or neurodivergent people because our ideologies were closer, and we did have some good times. But I was completely unexperienced, and too often I let people get away with shit because I didn't wanna be bigoted, or disagree. There was this droning feeling of being the "token straight cis guy" that felt a bit condescending to everything. And so I didn't call a certain individual on their bullshit far too many times. Long story short, what I mean is: People shouldn't get a pass to be awful just because they're autistic or trans or whatever.
@@francofernandes2006people should be treated as people. People make mistakes all the time, and they need to face consequences. I've been in a situation like yours before
Honestly the thing I've always noticed with autism infection is it always betrays them as completely incapable of accountability and that everyone in the world needs to just deal with the artistic characters actions no matter how horrible they are He got angry and tried to destroy somebody's several 1000 dollar car cause they rejected him oh it's okay it's not psychotic he's just autistic When well no but it it's still just psychotic and regardless of someone's autistic or whatever mental disability you can't let people get away with it Like I'm sorry but if someone's Unhealthy enough mentally that they're going to destroy a car because of hurt feelings that person shouldn't be allowed to be in public and honestly I feel like tv keeps trying to push the narrative that it's immorally wrong to have a problem with such actions as long as some mental disorder could be blamed
@@yami122 while also painting autistic people in bad light, because people not conscious enough are gonna think autistic people are psychotic and prone to violent psychopath-like behaviour. It only makes everything worse
I love the Good Doctor and I love Shaun and Lea - but my god, do I HAAATE the baseball bat scene. From the threats of physical violence to the incel-esque verbal assault on Lea....in my headcannon that scene just never happened. I know that the whole point is that Lea led him on for years because she infantilized him, and so this was understandably a turning point at which Lea needed to get a firm talking to in order for her to learn that she needs to respect him as she would any man. I get that. But the way the writers went about it was just....very poorly executed. ugh I hate it so much
Gee, I didn't realize that "The Good Doctor" portrayed autism poorly until recently. My parents used to watch it a lot until they stopped because they possibly lost interest. Also, today I learned that it was an American adaptation of a South Korean TV series.
I mean,same thing here. I could kind of relate at times I guess but having your mum explain why he’s good rep or trying to use it to understand you is really uncomfortable. “Oh you do this because of your autism too”. Grosses me out
Autistic Emergency Room nurse here (also a UA-camr), I haven't actually watched it yet, I saw the "trailer" and I couldn't stand his portrayal. We often have to remind ourselves that "if you've met one autistic person, You've met, but one autistic person" - But I will say, you absolutely need to have "bedside manner" and be able to talk to people and not be an emotionless robot in order to have a therapeutic relationship with a patient. Great video man~!
Autistic person here - I agree that manners are always important. Autism isn't an excuse for bad manners. It's an explanation for misunderstandings and for some other things, but any autistic person who has the capacity to lead a somewhat independent life also has the capacity to learn what is decent and what isn't. It's a learning process of cause. It's not always as easy as it is for neurotypical people. But autistic people are still people, and most of us, as far as I can say, can and want to learn how to communicate right and how to act decently. And, contrary to common believe, autistic people often are very emotional people. We just sometimes don't know how to communicate it, but again. It's possible to learn, at least to some degree.
@@ladria9743 Later in the show, another character with autism worked with Shawn. she said very inappropriate things to staff and patients. When confronted by this, she actually used her autism as an excuse and refused to change her behavior. This also makes autistic people look bad. As if we can't learn and grow from our mistakes.
High functioning CNA here, absolutely agree. I have a 'default setting' for greeting patients that comes with a 'voice'. Mainly rehearsed, but it works; especially working in the ICU. I've learned a long time ago that having completely unfiltered thoughts does not help trying to communicate or make for clever conversation. I managed to watch one episode before deciding on not watching this show. I think the closest thing to portraying someone with autism was Ben Affleck in the accountant.
Have you ever seen Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated? Fred's pretty strongly autism-coded in that and I think they do a great job of showing it in a positive light instead of just having him be whiny and narcissistic like Sheldon.
Fred is iconic. 10/10 autistic character, no notes. I would quote him so often if my family/friends would actually get the reference (sadly, they would not. 😔)
My biggest problem with Shaun when I watched this show was he acted and sounded very robotic. I have NEVER seen someone act that way, and I'm autistic myself
Exactly! As a teacher who has autistic students, none of them feel or act like emotionless robots; on the contrary, most of them are very gentle and kind hearted. I'm not saying that there are no autists that act less emotional, but in TV it seems like it's the only case.
I mean I have trouble with emotions, but I work on that everyday. But even at my worst no one would say I'm robotic. Just not always clear. But that's due to more than just my autism.
He sounded more robotic at each next season. I remember that Shaun had some emotion in his voice tone in the first season. But since the third, Freddie Highmore outright sounds utterly monotone.
The issue to me isn't an autistic person acting robotic cause some can be I've met some who are. The issue however is that not all autistic people are like this, autistic people can be very extroverted cheerful social, other autistic people can be very introverted quiet anxious. Some autistic people are geniuses but others have low or average IQ. So the issue is they keep using one specific autistic personality type instead of representing all of the variations
As an autistic person, I'm incredibly tired of these kinds of stereotypical representation. I hate that autistic characters are always either infantilized and treated as these pure angels, or are savants. Both of these tropes make it feel like we have to have traits that "make up for" the fact that we're autistic, in order to be worthy. Both things are deeply dehumanizing. This feels like the kind of show allistic people can watch to feel good about themselves for being able to show empathy for an autistic person. Please, if you're going to write an autistic character, at least consult a variety of actual autistic people. This is why I'm writing my own novel series with a cast that features a number of autistic characters. Own voices are so important. Thank you for calling out this show, though. We deserve better representation.
It shouldn't be as exciting as it is to find an autistic character who isn't one of those two stereotypes. I just want relatable characters, it shouldn't be that hard! Smh
@@ranitaloca888 I don’t need a character who’s just like me. I don’t even mind the stereotypes. It’s not the stereotype that’s the problem, but the lack of actual character in those stereotype autistic characters. They’re just a list of autistic traits, instead of a “person” (as much as a fictional character can ever be a person). The infantalized autistic characters and the savant autistic characters are almost never treated the same way as the rest of the cast by the writers. That’s my real problem with those stereotypes, that they’re not treated as actual characters. One of my favorite autistic characters is a low empathy science guy (and also a turtle). There is very little in common between me and this character, our autisms don’t even really present in very similar ways. But they wrote him well enough that he really feels like a feasible autistic person (again, he is literally THE stereotype of an autistic genius), and I’m able to understand and relate to his problems and thought processes better than any of the other characters. I _can_ relate to non-autistic characters, but it’s nice to have a break from translating neurotypical shenanigans (why so much subtext? All the time, they just can’t say what they meeeaaaan), and have a character speak _my_ “language” once in a while. Edit: I am aware this somewhat contradicts my previous comment. With more reflection I’m able to more clearly state my problem with a lot of this autism representation. (Also, there IS good autism representation out there, I love looking for it and finding new canonically autistic characters, it’s just that often when a character is stated within the show/movie to be autistic, they’re not written well.)
@ranitaloca888 the aggression in this comment is so unwarranted. You literally assumed something about someone, and then attacked their assumed argument. You didn't even bother to ask what they meant. Do better. -Signed a boy with autism
I never watched the show and only seen the memes about the character. I didn't even know that he was supposed to be autistic. I just thought that he was an just an egotistical prick who doesn't like being told that he's wrong.
My brother has autism, so as time has gone on, my mom has gravitated toward portrayals of autism in media. She watched the show from the first episode. I took one look and said nope. It felt at first glance like it wasn't trying to tell a good story or really represent autism, but instead be hashtag inspirational. It's Simple Jack MD is what I'm saying, and I immediately knew it wasn't worth my time.
Don't get me wrong, there *are* people with autism that act like or are similar to the protagonist in the show. But there are a lot of people that have autism where you wouldn't really be able to tell at first glance. I think what this show got wrong was that it didn't do a good job of explaining not everyone with autism is like Shaun
I actually liked this show for a while back during the first few seasons. It had a decent premise and as a fellow autistic person, I did connect with Shaun a bit at first... AT FIRST. The writing didn't typically bother me; I was just there for the surgery drama tbh. But what irritated me was how Shaun just NEVER improved as a character, no matter how many times he learned the same lesson over and over. He went from being a character I could relate to to a cringy caricature that rarely tried to adapt to social situations the way I had to learn as a kid. I've come so far in masking my autistic traits that I can almost pass for neurotypical now, minus a few obvious hyperfixations. I can successfully empathize with people and filter my comments after reading the room. Shaun was an empty shell of a character with no sense of empathy and a complete inability to filter his thoughts, not to mention he can just NEVER accept when he's wrong. Yes, autistic people tend to feel that way, like their way of doing things is the only way that makes sense to them and everyone else is wrong. But after being told off SO MANY TIMES for making hasty or unorthodox decisions, you'd think Shaun would've picked up on something along the way, but no. He just... never changes, and everyone is just supposed to accept him for it. The show can't decide the right balance of "treating Shaun like a mentally-disabled person" and "treating Shaun the exact same as everyone else". It's incredibly frustrating. I also had problems with Glassman and that Ethicure bitch whose name I don't remember, and the fact that they straight up killed off Asher in the final season for no fucking reason than to make him a martyr for gay people. In short, the show was better off early when I thought it had room to improve, rather than the later seasons when I realized it never would.
I'm a dentistry student. I'm 4 years behind, currently taking a break year and struggling with a lot with PTSD from childhood and emotional regulation after years of thinking that masking was an option for me. I know this may be a generalization but there is absolutely no way Shaun could have graduated from med school to work as a doctor, given the emotional outbursts and mannerisms he displays in the few episodes I've watched. It feels like they wrote someone with the most cliche characteristics and slapped the doctor degree before throwing him to the hospital instead of taking all the struggles of the process to reach that position into consideration.
Holy crap that’s a good point. When I was a kid I wanted to be a surgeon but I figured out by age 12 that my emotional dysregulation and sensory issues would have made med school way too difficult. Gosh this show would have been SO much better rep if the setup was Shaun in med school learning how to manage his emotional stress while navigating all those complex practical and social scenarios and showing just how much of a toll that takes on a person. It would be way more fitting for his psychological state at the beginning of the show and a better vehicle for exploring the themes of “am I really cut out for this?” without the ridiculously high stakes of a professional surgical setting, and an overall way more satisfying emotional payoff for character growth 😭
I theorize that animation tends to be better because so many more animators are autistic or otherwise neurodivergent (though many undiagnosed). It makes it easier to accidentally write good autism rep when you are yourself autistic. And there's been quite a few animators getting late-diagnosed lately. (plus animation is a career that's often a good fit for neurodivergent people, as our hyperfixation abilities can be very useful for making drawing the same thing 2,000 times actually bearable)
@@thatonepossum5766personally for me it’s just that it’s so much easier to ignore all the logical fallacies in animation, because it’s fundamentally not trying to be realistic, more so just making good characters instead of realistic and relatable settings. When it’s in live action, the over exaggeration is blatantly obvious, and way harder to forgive than when it’s in animation, which isn’t trying to be too accurate to reality.
I love House as (probably?) unintentional autism rep. He's frustrated with other people's behaviors, he's got an ego, and he's overall a jerk. But he's A GOOD CHARACTER. He genuinely cares about his work and saving people's lives, and is patient when he needs to be (particularly with kids).
idk man I tried to watch House again in 2024 and it's very hard to watch. I loved the show during its original run, but as a woman in my 30s, the way House talks to women/about women just makes it very difficult for me to want to spend time with this character. He's a straight up asshole, which would be fine if he had an arc, but he doesn't - he's literally a self destructive misogynistic asshole from start to finish. House is definite enjoyable for individual episodes, but Good Doctor's longer character arcs are MUCH better executed. Mostly because the characters are written as real people capable of growth, and not just permanently flawed shitheads who get in their own way
I feel that just feeds into the ableism around how meltdowns are treated by contrasting someone having a meltdown with how "calm" and "reasonable" the non autistic characters are, while ignoring that said person is ableist and triggered the meltdown in the first place. It makes the already ableist use of the meme feel even more dehumanizing.
It's dumb how he's portrayed as evil incarnate for wanting to fire Shaun even though the patient he was operating on when he ran out of the room could have died.
I remember my dad made me and my sister who has autism (my dad doesn't believe in mental health or disorders) watch this and keep telling my sister how she just like good doctor he is selfish because he has people helping him and how she is using her autism as a excuse
This is one of the reasons why I believe talks about disorders and disabilities shouldn't go mainstream. They might bring awareness, but they also serve as ammo for people who will not be convinced by any means possible.
Now now, let's be fair about TBBT. Sheldon isn't Autistic, they even say as much in the show. If he was autistic then the show would be laughing at autism. Instead it's just laughing at someone for doing things that autistic people do. That's much better. Also, the "I am a surgeon" scene is a perfect encapsulation of the difference between tolerance of disabilities and "making accommodations". He is mentally not capable of being in the position as shown by the meltdown in that scene, however many would call it "discrimination" to make that the reason to turn him down. (Before you get your panties in a bunch, I am also Autistic) SIDE NOTE: I was bothered by the depiction of Julia in Sesame Street. Mostly at the idea of the kids having to stop what they were doing to accommodate Julia who was upset by loud noises (even worse when she wasn't playing with them originally anyway).. This can leave people thinking "better not play with them, we won;t be able to do what we want". What they should have done instead is have her with ear muffs, still do the loud noises, and have a character explain "She has trouble with loud noises, so she takes steps to avoid hearing it". This explains about the individual making accommodations, as well as putting light on "weird quirks" as having normal explanations.
If the show were good autistic/disability representation, it would be like Monsters University. In there the MC has a fictional disability that makes him unqualified for certain work that he wants to do (he wants to scare kids but he just isn’t scary). And despite wanting it more than anyone and working hard, he fails, he never becomes a scarer. He even gets kicked out of the school for his shinanigans. However the movie ends with him finding another way to work in the industry he cares about, even if not in the position he wanted but he still finds happiness. Then the entire industry collapses due to technological advancement. However he was able to find employment and happiness in the newer emerging industry, that just so happen to be friendlier to his specific disability in a position that would be comparable to the one he wasn’t qualified for
@frankwest5388 can't have that these days. "If your workplace isn't suitable for the disabled, change your workplace to accommodate them" and all that.
I finally went to therapy again after the last one said the moon was making me sad. I called the office and described my situation, that I used to be in spec ed for ADHD and autism and that I'm looking for a therapist for depression and severe social anxiety. She asked if I'd prefer a male or female therapist, and though I'm female and would probably ideally like my therapist to be too, I said anyone was good as long as they find someone who fits my situation. It's really hard to come by therapists for my issues among the sea of "life coaches" and I've had a ton of bad ones, so the important thing was finding anyone that could have expertise in this area. No need to limit it further. She listened to all this and then proceeded to set me up with a guy that got his degree in theology and became a counselor through doing couple's counseling at his ministry. No experience whatsoever in autism/ADHD/etc. His latest brush up with psychology was apparently in 2000 when he wrote a paper about "the left brain vs the right brain." He called me the good doctor and kept bailing on my appointments. Then he acted mad at me for looking down on people with autism (supposedly, for not wanting something...not exactly aimed for me) except he had that exact film of separation and condescension as everyone else. Why act mad at me for the same thing he does? He seemed genuinely upset at the question.
I'm a psychologist with a brother and several friends with Autism as well as several clients. When I hear about parents of clients or colleagues mention "The Good Doctor" I fight the urge to groan and I politely advise them to look into Abed's character from Community for a better representation of Autism in media.
Abed is by far my favorite example of Autism representation in media. The floor is lava episode really captures what every other piece of media misses about Autism: It isn't a lack of emotion/feelings, it's difficulty processing and expressing those emotions and feelings. People on the spectrum aren't robots, they're just out of tune with what they feel a lot of the time.
@@maximACMN I'm not as comfortable saying things about low-functioning autistics, since I myself am pretty high-functioning. Just via my job and volunteer work I interact somewhat regularly with low-functioning children, and while I would say the same rules apply, it's to a totally different degree. I also haven't seen a ton of media with low-functioning autistic people in it, so I can't really comment on that either.
I have never in my life have seen a mental illness represented well, by a story that set out with an explicit goal to represent mental illness. DID, PTSD, Trauma, Schizophrenia, Narcisim, Psychosis, Autism, Amnesia none of them were ever represented well by a story that promoted itself with the name of the diagnosis in its mouth.
I have twice. Unseelie, a book with an autistic lead and written by an autistic woman. The book itself isn’t the best piece of literature I’ve ever read, but it represents its autistic lead well, and lets an autistic person go on a fantasy adventure (autistic rep is super absent from fantasy in particular, so it was nice to see). And Percy Jackson, which features a mostly neurodivergent cast, though it does use the “X disorder is actually a superpower” trope, it doesn’t do it in an obnoxious way. It’s not peak neurodivergent rep, but it’s pretty nice.
There should be a warning for when someone makes a show or writes a book or something and they ask anyone from Autism Speaks for advice for writing an autistic character. It keeps people an early option to leave before they learn the hard way.
I haven't actually seen the Good Doctor but I really dislike how it kind of popularised the autism savant stereotype more so than Rainman, great video as always man I enjoy watching!
Another Korean show that presents a sensitive, realistic and respectful portrayal of autism is Extraordinary Attorney Woo… the lead actress was actually very reluctant to take the role since she is not autistic and feared she would not do a good job portraying an autistic person, but she apparently did a ton of research when studying for the role, and in my opinion does a really incredible job… highly recommend the show to everyone!
I know Ive mentioned him before, but the things that are wrong with the Good Doctor's Autism Representation are much better in Criminal Minds with Reid. It's actually really strange the parallels I'm seeing thanks to your video. It's a similar premise, a person who is undeniably on the spectrum in a position of saving the lives of others, just as an FBI profiler instead of a surgeon. Reid's autism is much more subtle. It tends to be more blatant in the early seasons but that's because he isn't close with his team or very experienced in his career yet so he's not quite comfortable in his new environment yet. The one thing he never is, is insensitive. He's actually profoundly empathetic towards others though he doesn't always express this perfectly. Sometimes he forces his friends to confront hard feelings and emotions they need to, but would rather not deal with, and he tends to put up walls and have trouble accepting support and help when he's the one who needs it. But I can think of one time, one time in 15 seasons, where Reid said anything that could be construed as hurtful. It was in season 2 where a teammate was being accused of murder and Reid and another teammate were talking to the family to get some background. Reid pointed out that law enforcement are no more or less likely to commit crimes than the general public. The sister of the teammate who was accused, took offense to this, but statistics are one of Reid's special interests, and he was calm because it was so obvious to him that his friend was innocent that he wasn't worried at all about them being able to prove it. He didn't say or mean to even suggest that he was guilty, just that his choice of career wasn't a factor.
As someone who has actually watched every episode of Good Doctor since it came out, it has a loooot of cringe and problematic writing decisions (as to be expected from the person who made House 💀) but I can never hate on Freddie Highmore's performance as Shaun bc he is "literally me" lol the way he walks/talks/carries himself and even his meltdowns are almost an exact match to how I act in real life so when I see other autistic ppl call things like the surgeon scene a bad representation bc "it's not realistic no one acts like that" it kinda hurts because like,,, i act like that ;-; That's not to say I don't still have issues with how Shaun's character is written bc of course I do and it sucks that the show had so much potential to be something deeper but they chose to keep resetting Shaun's character development every season and not really have any of the things he learns stick, just keeping him stubborn and rigid "because autism" even at the cost of just acting like a jerk sometimes, even if it feels unnatural to the plot and makes no sense lmao, it kinda fell into the same trap of all other american medical dramas where you either die the hero (get cancelled after one season with a really cool premise and lots of room to cook) or live long enough to see yourself become the villain (keep airing wayy past when the show fell off and devolve into a soap opera that's barely even about medicine anymore) At its best The Good Doctor had some really touching episodes that made me feel very represented but at its worst it had me physically cringing like "now who tf decided _this_ lmao" it's a mess but even with all its flaws i still don't think the show was as much a disaster for the community as some other people seem to lol i give it 5/10 🤷♀
but yeah, like i said i'm of the unpopular opinion that Shaun is actually a very GOOD autism representation (at least to me, but like they say "if you've met one person with autism you've met one person with autism" so i do think there should have been more autistic characters in the show with different characteristics which would make shaun feel less stereotypical (and they did do this with a few characters in later seasons actually played by autistic actors but i still think there coulda been more)) but i think the main problem with the show is how it tries to use that for inspiration p0rn, instead of just making a good story with an autistic character they make the story ABOUT the autism instead of about the _character_ and then that's why people get turned off bc it makes all his struggles feel a lil artificial when they frame the whole ass rest of the story to show him "overcoming" it instead of just playing things out organically, like you said the narrative kind of babies him too much which definitely can give NTs the wrong impression (and that's why you can tell the show was written _for_ them and not "for us" as much as i still enjoyed part of it)
For me, the unrealistic aspect isn't from how Highmore plays the character, or even that scene (because I agree, it was a good representation of a meltdown actually), its that the Circumstances are absurd. Realistically, he would not be a surgeon and rightly so. He can't perform all aspects of it reliably, if at all, and is a walking liability. And instead of the show acknowledging that and doing something interesting about learning to work with your limitations, and developing coping mechanisms and techniques that will let him work in his field, they just go "But he's so special! Look at the little unicorn, he tries so hard, lets have this unrealistic fantasy play out and completely disregard the reality of actual autistic people!". Which is the part I find insulting. As an autistic person, I've needed to find workarounds, develop routines and coping mechanisms, learn to read people and I STILL struggle. There are STILL things I can never do. So to me, it always felt less like representation of an authentic autistic experience and more like some strange performance of the magical savant sticking it to the world because they are just that special and precious. Being autistic is the ONLY important thing about him, and thats all. And because of that, he comes across as someone to be felt sorry for and cooed at, rather than respected. He never changes, never grows, never develops even basic techniques to help him perform his duties. I do think Highmore did a great job with what he was given - its just that what he was given was utter garbage
Yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel about the show, I can’t disregard the first few seasons cuz actually getting to watch an adult autistic main character (which was quite rare to find) and their just-a-little-too-relatable struggles is what finally got me to seriously reflect and look into that childhood “misdiagnosis” that explained a whole lot actually 😅 Whether or not this show ‘paved the way’ or whatever, I am glad that there’s (relatively) a lot more rep to choose from now! ^_^
Eh, I'm on the autism spectrum and I personally like 'The Big Bang Theory' and 'Young Sheldon.' I can understand why other people wouldn't, though. I never saw 'The Good Doctor,' partially because I always found Freddie Highmore to be a very annoying and one-note actor.
Same here, Sheldon is a lot easier to like and understand, to me he is trapped in a world he dose not fully understand because of how his mind works and he struggles to function hence why he comes off the way he dose, but he can and dose learn to understand when he is wrong and will make amends, where shows like House and the good doctor make the character impossible to like because they never learn and the character never goes beyond the traits giving them depth. And don't get me started on how the good doctor is a terrible doctor but because he is on the spectrum he can do whatever he wants and anyone who points how that is gonna backfire in a hospital gets yelled at for being mean.
I knew a kid with autism who could only say his name and cake. My poor friend at the day care was in charge of keeping an eye on him. Holy cow that was rough. He would finish his shift every day exhausted and covered in sweat trying to chase after the kid constantly. One time there was a birthday and he just kept diving into the cake excitedly yelling "cake cake cake!" Mashing it up and grabbing fists of it. I still laugh at the craziness. He was a nice kid but was clearly beyond my friends expertise ❤. No one else got cake that day😂
As someone who is Autistic, I appreciate this video talking about it, I haven't been able to watch the show yet, but this gives me an idea of what this character will be like, so thank you for this 👍
@@noahthe0tter 100% agreed. To be honest, knowing that this show consulted Autism Speaks explains a lot as to why Shaun is such a poorly written character.
And. Honestly who cares about "rupresintatewn" in the fucking big bang theory. The joke is that everyone in that show are terrible people. It doesn't pretend to be a serious show. And it ended better than I AM A SURGEON.
I am autistic and when I told my family that I didn't like this show my sister had the gall to say that the show wasn't "made for me" because one of my points was that no autistic person I have ever seen talk about the show say that they relate to Shawn. Sure, some people pointed out "this tiny thing was fine" but then what? And I truly think if I ever went to a hospital and my doctor behaved like Shawn, I'd have a pretty good case for a lawsuit :)
To me the funniest part is to think that you can "demote" someone to pathology. First of all, surgery is not above pathology, they're two different medical specialties and you need a completely different set of knowledge.
What made me infuriated with the show is how on one episode, It had something to do with rebranding the hospital, And the new boss said she was also neurotypical…… *it’s neurodivergent*
I didn't see THAT episode when I was watching it on Disney Plus for this review, but given the lack of research the writers definitely have, I'm not surprised
you sure she didn't just say neuroAtypical? i do agree tho i hated that whole salen plot because they purposely introduced the *one* adhd character solely to be the villain while also having her use her disorder as an excuse for her behavior, and then once they were done with all the drama promptly erased the character and everything she did with no lasting consequences lmao
as an autistic person, thank you so much for making this video. three months ago, my family and i had gotten far enough into the show to get to the "I AM A SURGEON!" episode, and i could not hold back my disgust at that moment. unfortunately, at that time, i was a guy who, as i was forced to reveal at the tail end of my final trimester, hadn't been doing well in his studies, and had only just finished his last trimester, and had been severely punished over the few months BEFORE that because i was giving off the impression that i was "too relaxed" about my studies. i was a guy who unfortunately wasn't quite ready to enter the working world proper because i wanted more time for myself with my non-studies-related interests (video games, watching chess streams, etc) but was constantly pushed into looking for a job, and was constantly being seen as not taking the whole job-hunting process seriously, to the point that i was once denied lunch for several hours just because my mom mistakenly thought i wasn't taking a job application deadline seriously and deliberately lagging behind on filling in and submitting the required documents. i was a guy who was already failing at the tasks i was called on to help with in the family business. i was (and still am) a guy who already eats slowly and yet could not go TWO DAYS without getting ragged on by my mom for paying too much attention to the dinnertime movie/TV episode in front of me and not enough attention to the food i was supposed to be eating at a "reasonable" speed AT HOME, AT THE END OF THE DAY. i was (and still am) a guy who was VERY lucky to have been deemed unfit for national service in my country. the result? when i groaned loudly in disgust at the "I AM A SURGEON!" moment, my mom screamed at me to shut up, to just finish my food because "everyone has finished eating except you!" (ignoring how close i actually was to finishing at the time), and that i was "pointing out everyone's mistakes except your own!" my brother (my closest friend in my life) and my dad didn't sympathize with me either, even when i pointed out all the typical ways neurotypicals mock autistic people on the internet (the R-slur; the use of "autistic" as an insult; "aren't we all autistic?", etc); they just told me i was "overreacting". and because i still didn't have a job at the time, i had to sit through a lecture from my mom about how "we all have to suffer at least a bit to get what we want in our lives, and you're not suffering enough" or whatever the bloody hell she was saying that basically meant i didn't even deserve basic respect for who i was. i still live with them because the cons of finding my own place away from them still outweigh the pros, and i DID eventually "suck it up" and continue watching the show with them at the dinner table (at least until we found _Line of Duty_ and went to watching that instead because it's actually a good show), but i highly doubt i'll ever be able to forgive them for this. to this day, i'm still averse to watching or listening to that "I AM A SURGEON!" moment again, and even when i started watching *this* video, i had to take a pause and remind myself that this was what i was choosing to walk into by clicking on a video with such a title before i continued watching. but yeah, that's enough about me. thank you so much for making this video. subbed!
Honestly, as an autistic person, I actually… really like the good doctor. It’s definitely not a perfect show- hell, sometimes it’s not even a very good show- but for me personally, it’s actually a comforting watch. Guess it goes to show that every person’s autism is different? I don’t pretend the show is particularly deep, and I know it’s a little on the pretentious side sometimes, but I actually see a lot of depth in the problems the characters have at least in my own life. I… like, that the characters around Shawn treat him differently. Because that’s how it feels, for me. And sometimes it’s resolved, sometimes it isn’t, but the good doctor reminds me of all the different ways people have tried to interact with me and my autism, especially when I was young, and it reads as painfully real to me in that aspect because a lot of characters don’t even realize they’re being ableist. Glassman has this overprotective attitude, this bias that Shawn is a thing to be kept safe, that he’s fragile, Lea believes he’s being intentionally obtuse when she knows he isn’t, and while she tries not to, infantilises him- I ended up adoring Melendez because for the most part, past the first season or so, he’s genuinely pretty unbiased towards Shawn on a lot of occasions. I like the good doctor because it reminds me of how people used to treat me, and even if Shawn doesn’t win in the long run, seeing him prove them wrong, even in obvious, standardised plots with ‘inspirational’ undertones, makes that part of me feel really validated. I agree that a lot of his manner is just over the top, but some parts of it I adore- his staring into space is something I always do, sort of blanking instead of emoting while walking between locations, getting angry when people try to talk about his autism because shut up, that’s not who I am. Even though he’s often a caricature, Shawn Murphy hits those little things that make me feel so… freed, almost? I’m not saying it’s wrong to hate the show- I don’t like a lot of the episodes! But for what it’s worth, I think the actor did his best with what was given, and for me at least he managed to strike a chord.
My husband (who has Aspergers) and I talked about the "I AM A SURGEON!" scene. In short, he found it a hilarious, yet grossly mischaracterizing scene of the autism spectrum. People on the spectrum aren't like that. They don't act like that, nobody does. He more would have tried really hard to bargain with the boss, doing and saying anything he could think of to convince him that he's actually a good fit, will change his behavior, etc. If the boss was still insistent, then he would have probably gotten very upset, but would have done his best to hide it via just going flat/stone faced, said something along the lines of, "Okay, no problem". And walk away, in case he ended up saying something that he shouldn't.
Why do people hate so much on Autism representation? If you are Autistic you know it's a SPECTRUM. Autism can't be correctly representated because it's a SPECTRUM. There's a million different ways Autistics act... I have Autism and I barely show any signs, I work with children with Autism and they show a lot of signs. It's a SPECTRUM for a reason. We don't all act the same or act perfectly. There are no autistics that show the perfect signs and have the perfect symptoms. It's a spectrum there's different ways!
“Autism representation” on TV is why I often hear “you don’t seem autistic” from people who have clearly never met someone with autism before. Which has affected my experience with working, relationships, and so much more. It pisses me off, my life is already stressful. It’s more stressful that people don’t believe I have autism because I don’t line up with the autism they see on TV/presented by Autism Speaks. It’s actually forced me into jobs like janitor work and shit to escape the pressure and stress of more traditional jobs.
When I was in School I would always compare myself as a dented gem. Just a defective robot that can’t fit into the factory and needs to get recalled and thrown with the rejects. I have high-functioning autism and sometimes people don’t even notice cause I never needed a mask to hide because I express who I am. A over generous, kind, patient, and understanding man. Yet I felt like I didn’t deserve to be labeled as an Autistic such as many Autistics feel. And to see a show that takes at least the first few episodes of the first season to be relatable, it was too much so I stopped, and I didn’t even know it was funded by autism speaks
@@noahthe0tter yes series like this make people to have a lot of misconceptions about autism, I literally read a comment of someone who said “autistic people don’t have feelings, they are like robots but at least they all are very intelligent” and also I had a teacher who believes ABA therapy is the only thing that can help children no matter how traumatic it can be
While I largely agree with your criticism of the show, one thing I'd like to push back on is the idea that Shaun should have accepted his role as a pathologist since it would have fit him more. I think that there's definitely a compelling angle to having an autistic character fight for a role he struggles with due to his autism, but otherwise has a knack for due to his intelligence and talents. Being pigeonholed into a more isolated position, from Shaun's perspective, would be squandering his potential to save more lives as a surgeon. Plus, idk if it's a good message for an autistic main character to just 'accept' their limitations at the cost of giving up on their passions or talents. The real problem imo, is that, instead of Shaun arguing this position passionately and vulnerably, displaying the humanity underneath while also making a compelling case for his role as a surgeon, he instead just yells "I AM A SURGEON" after explicitly being told that any more push back would cause him to be fired. If you're gong to push back after a warning like that, it'd need to be an argument where everything, both logic and emotion, is laid bare. But instead it just comes off as an emotional outburst, and makes him look way less qualified than I think the writers intended him to come off as. Like, what if, instead of shouting "I AM A SURGEON" over and over, he instead yelled the names of all the patients he's saved over the course of the show. Now THAT would have been something, I think.
Most “mainstream” attempts at ASD representation fall into an overarching problem: try and do everything that “autistic people are/do” in one character, while often using them as a means of doing the “difference between the normal and the other”… As someone who didn’t know until I was 20 about ASD, nonetheless I never felt ostracised to the levels that Dr. Murphy or Sheldon Cooper come off. And yeah, it’s hard to show theory of mind but that’s why we work on it. We’re not stagnant, we grow and change like anyone else does.
I started watching the show shortly after my autism diagnosis, thinking I was getting some representation. But immediately I see the scene where a rabbit was brutally killed and I turned it off, I dont even remember if it had a warning for that. I didnt watch the show since and after learning that they used Autism Speaks as reference I'm glad I made that choice.
Even Data from Star Trek (supposedly that character might be seen as a sort-of allegory for autism), who is a FUCKING ROBOT, didn't feel as robotic as Shaun.
@@maximACMN they support an abusive therapy (like, known to quickly cause trauma in patients, kind of abusive), spent significant amounts of their funds trying to cure autism (this is not possible), made a hugely fear-mongering ad in like 2007 framing autism as worse than cancer, claiming it will tear families apart. They have like one autistic board member, despite high functioning autistic people generally being well suited to jobs in disability advocacy (that is to say, autistic people easily could be on the board, they consciously choose not to have autistic people on the board). Edit: I think they also spread the “vaccines cause autism” misinformation for a while, despite it being solidly disproven for decades.
Watching this video is honestly very cathartic for me. I'm autistic, and while I haven't seen full episodes of this show, every clip I've come across has rubbed me the wrong way. I was wondering for the longest time if I was just weird for finding the show off-putting, so I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one.
No. This is like blaming an Amazon factory worker for Jeff Bezos’ actions. Freddie didn’t write the script. He was told to play this character and he did what he could with the script he was given. If you want to blame someone, blame the showrunners and script writers who greenlit his character’s writing.
@@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185He is an adult. Hold him responsible. HE failed to do his research. That is on him. And it will hopefully be a stain on his career because he deserves at least that for adding to discrimination.
I would highlight one of the accidental keynote you gave: "he sees things from a different POV" One thing that f-s me as an Autist, is how our thinking is both "exoticised" & degraded in the same sense. Like. They "think" it's a compliment. But in reality, it's like (un)intentional racists phrase it "OMG! Japanese see things from such a different POV! It's so exotic! It's giving oriental. It's giving...Kimchi." Meanwhile, if we were NT, we were just "natural geniuses". But nope. No matter on the spectrum. We are always seen as the "cute savant" 🙄
Imo after talking about this with my bf who got autism, its a weird thing where both him and sheldon are both at extremes where its not necessarily good or bad. Good if u get the extremes out there because some may understand autistic peoples struggles more but this is ONLY if they understand its simply an extreme but if this was a first introduction or you already haven’t got a open mind, autistic friends, ect then it can normalise this behaviour and may jump to the conclusion that thats the only way they are like which is damaging.
The best autistic characters are those that aren’t intentional written that way. Pretty much every single person in the Gang in Always Sunny in Philadelphia exhibit autistic/adhd behaviors and they were never intended to be coded as such but because of that, making that connection as a viewer is so much easier and makes the characters feel far more real. A lot of intentionally written autistic characters are written as children in adult bodies who don’t know a thing about social interactions. Sure, some people do have more struggles than others but we aren’t idiotic babies.
honestly I've worked a few small jobs and its a lot harder than neurotypical people think, for me it's the sensory overload that got me on one of them and ultimately led to me being let go (I was working at a small cafe and a lot of things happened one day I wasn't prepared for plus it being the busiest day, this culminated in me almost having a panic attack and hiding in the dish pit so as to not cause a scene while I tried to calm down, my co-workers were very understanding and kind towards me but my manager was really pissed that it happened at all) it's really hard to get the understanding needed from people for situations like this and most people (especially if you're high functioning like me) are assumed to just be overreacting or something... it sucks
include that with them being in a job with co-workers that never listens or trust what the individual has to say despite being right and proving them wrong every single time
I think that people that want to write shows about characters with autism, should consult people with autism. They are normal people like us, not aliens or super heroes that are good to only one thing. I would like to see a good tv show that actually shows how people with autism are and not make them cliche. Like, those people have their own lives, they are not only one thing, let them have their own stuff going on, without making them be the " loners", some people with autism do have dating lives and friends and are not just the stereotypical geniuses, there are not all the same. Just bc they have autism, does not mean their whole existence is that. (Atypical for example, managed to show for me a good side of that).
Highly recommend Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated for a show with a 10/10 autistic character. They made their Fred Jones autistic in that show, and they nailed it. They treat him exactly the same as any other character, he has a love life, and while his special interest in traps (and mysteries by proxy) is somewhat exaggerated, he does exist as a character outside of doing those things. They never say in the show that he’s autistic, but the lead writer basically confirmed it in an interview, so I count him on the list of “canon autistic.”
It’s funny how Atypical ran out of autistic stereotypes so they just started giving the MC actual character traits instead. Better late than never I guess
@cosmicspacething3474 But autistic characters do have actual character traits, theyre not only their autism. The stereotype would be for him to be only like the guy from good doctor. Who's by the way, in the original version, the Korean one, bc I watched it before Good Doctor came out, like yeeeeaara ago, he doesn't have autism, there he has a syndrome. So, it's not the same at all. And it is more realistic in the Korean version for me. Even though the American version it's a complete copy, especially the first episode. After some time, they start writing the show on their own, bc the Korean has like 13 or 16 episodes and the American went from that to like...5 seasons+. I couldn't watch it all, it was not realistic to me any more 😂.
He's awful. Whenever someone I only recently got to know finds out I have autism they act so surprised because I don't throw any tantrums or whatever. It's like, do I have to yell "I'm a surgeon! I'm a surgeon!" so I am "convincing?" I really don't understand. I'd argue House MD is a better representation of autism than Sean.
I haven't seen/heard of this show in FOREVER. There's, uhh, a reason though... I dipped out like ep 1-3 because of these reasons. I sometimes seen the odd one here and there, but it was indeed bad representation. And quite hard to watch at that.
He does kind of remind me of a friend I have who has autism, but that doesn’t mean it’s accurate for everyone. He does get upset and might start screaming sometimes but he used to do it a lot more when he was younger. I’ve never really bothered to do much research on autism as interesting as it sounds, so I can’t say if this is the situation a lot or little amount of people
May I suggest a kind of spark ? Based of a book written by an autistic author then adapted into a tv show with multiple autistic characters all played by autistic actors. In my opinion some of the best autistic representation i’ve ever seen
As someone who has talked to multiple people with autism and went on an Instagram rant about the Good Doctor, thank you. My beef got ignited from the trans episode where Murphy was in his usual “black and white world” way. I truly want to know why this show fell back on tired old stereotypes, especially when multiple people with autism are also queer and had grown past the basic struggles shown. Being autistic does not equate to being static and complacent.
Being also autistic, I remember when I was younger and how on one hand it was not super hard to see characters like me on television but on the other hand they tended to wear a German uniform (the fact I'm part German and have a German sounding surname adds another side to this but I won't get into that now). Sometimes I watch shows where they have characters explicitly have autism and start to wonder, why is this praised as insightful when Erich Von Klinkerhoffen is lowbrow and a stereotype?
The lack of good autism representation in media does inspire me to write autistic characters. There is a character who already felt more like myself than most characters I write, because I made her *artistic*. Then I realised probably is *autistic* too. What compels me to write fantasy/sci-fi is the potential for intricate, well thought out symbolisms. These genres give extra creative freedom. Being indirect is definitely a great benefit. You can reflect the real world, but your story doesn’t have to be set in the real world. So, you can tackle touch/taboo topics in a roundabout, more digestible way. The thing is, with great creativity, does come great responsibility to make sure your audience is keeping up. So, I found it interesting to reflect (a unique, individual case of) autism in a giant. She was a giant before she was autistic, but I think these two aspects gel well. I’ll introduce her as tough, assertive, strong, intimidating. Kind of what you expect giants to be. But, that’s a mask. Furthermore, I can explore the sentiment that the world isn’t made for us in a different, perhaps more literal way. Autistic people tend to not fit in. Giants… literally don’t. They can’t enter homes. They can’t hide under trees others can hide under. Since she’s a giant, she can’t really be very covert when it comes to stimming, body language, eye contact, sensory sensitivities. And she feels like she’s always looked at weirdly. Her overarching arc is more so a sense of belonging. Something I think everyone can relate to, in their own way. And the theme of the story at large is looking at people for who they are, rather than what they are. Looking beyond labels, beyond stigmas, beyond biases. I always find it interesting to dive into different sort of heads. But diving into hers feels great too. We’re not the same. But we’re similar. She’s the character I may have put most of myself into, at least when it comes to personality and interests. Maybe not as much in beliefs. I think she’s generally more pessimistic than I am.
As an autistic individual who absolutely adores Steins;Gate, it never once occured to me to consider Okabe as an autistic coded person, but it makes so much sense now that you point it out.
It's fantastic! It's a show I think autistic folks like ourselves should watch at least once
I mean makes sense. Japan doesn't explicitly tell you those details. Unlike in the west where people do a big celebration for every "representation" there is.
For bad as they could be.
@@maravreloadedJapan have culture where been disrespectful to other people and calling out attention is considered a bad thing.
@@S-treme and isn't that a bad thing? Like. It's called DISrespect.
@@raelogan coded charracters are not good either. I'd prefer to have no representation for my issues since normal people can never fully understand it
You’re right, Shaun isn’t a character
He is a surgeon
He! Is! A sturgeon!
No, no: He! Is! A! Surgeon!
DR HAN, HE IS A SURGEON
He is a surgeon tho
That’s right, I’m a surgeon
I have a coworker with an autistic stepson, and this middle aged woman unironically told me "Autistic people are supposed to be super smart, like that show The Good Doctor." God help that kid.
Oohh that poor, poor kid
yup i'm autistic, it happend to me too xD
Sadly it's hard for people to understand that media is representative of it isn't the real thing since people very dumb we tend to just assume that any job is being accurately portrayed on TV
Blame the people that try to turn people with disorders into being a special gifted people to sugar coat it instead of accepting it as it is.
@@bonzoluv Unfortunately it's what the dumb mass audience wants to see your average viewer doesn't want to see reality the brutal truths of the world and the average audience wants to see things as much more good and just then things actually are
television movies and video games are inherently about entertainment and most people unfortunately just wouldn't you an actual artistic person struggles as entertaining it would just bum them out and make them seek out some other form of entertainment that is entertaining to them
As an autist myself, I can safely say I wouldn't be repeatedly screaming "I AM A CARPENTER", if I got fired
I feel like if you get fired you should do that tho, Not because you'd be expected to but purely for the jokes, I've got ADHD and for the joke I will randomly go "Squirrel!" and look off in the distance in the middle of a Conversation.
@@lumethecrow if you are honestly saying youve never been overloaded to the point of seeing red and just screaming nonsense then I think you should consider yourself lucky. Outbursts like these are so common, and belittling them is just so sad to see. We see Shaun nearly lose his shit over a screwdriver, now he's potentially losing his job and you are shocked he lost his damn mind for a moment?
@@kristienwhitney-johns5863
I have been overloaded to that point, yes. But I'm mature and have enough of a handle over my own mind to not freak out over it. I understand that the spectrum ain't all the same, but someone who can't handle an environment like that simply shouldn't be working there. I believe another comment said there's a reason you don't see wheelchair bound firefighters and such
@lumethecrow i completely agree that the show is ridiculous suggesting Shaun could work in a hospital as a surgeon. But your comment seemed to be pushing this idea that an autistic outburst brought on from sensory overload just isn't a thing. And I think we both know it is, so making light of it just doesn't sit right.
To be absolutely clear, I hate this show. However, the representation of autism is mostly very honest to reality.
Honestly, the worse bit for me is how Shaun "gets better" over the seasons. Which is just insulting, treating autism like the common cold.
@@kristienwhitney-johns5863 the true question is, are you a carpenter?
The problem with autism in media is that it's often represented to be inspirational. The narrative structure is almost always about overcoming obstacles. We need more stories with autistic characters whose arcs aren't about overcoming adversity. Let them struggle just like allistic characters; heck, let them fail. The most important part about writing an autistic character is writing them as a *character.*
Exactly. The characterization of Shaun is almost non-existent in this show
Thats why I love Tech from The Bad Batch. He is clearly autistic (hell, in some way the entire squad is, even Omega in a way). Yet his arc has nothing to do with overcoming weaknesses, but about using his strengths to its full potential and simply grow as a person. Something that doesnt need him to be autistic, but a real world problem he has his own ways to deal with and flavours of personal struggles.
@@alejandronieto4212 Tech is a great character
Think the only character with autism is found two be a fair portrayal was Its okay not to be okay its a korean drama and its extends to a chat of many people dealing with issues. You canntell the directors and writers did allot of research.
we already have autists in media that fail: they're called space marines
I once brought this topic up in my philosophy class. Media tends to portrait autism as the both extremes of the spectrum. Either absolute babies, who cant look after themselves and need constant supervision, or genius and savants that are only a little bit awkward socially. It's literally 0 or 100 scale with no in between.
There's no nuance in this kind of media, exactly. I'm glad media is starting to get better at this
Savants aren’t autistic… It has been decades since we know that…
Exactly, they are never just in between
watch as its both extremes at the same time
Ah yes, the good old Autism Is Just Super Nerd Power Actually cliche. I hate it so much.
My boyfriend (who is on the spectrum) had an interesting take on this. The main part that bothered him with the portrayal in The Good Doctor is that they tried to eat their cake and have it too. Like the only way they could make an autistic character have a major role or do something important is by relying on the "autistic genius/autism as super power" trope, even though everything else about the character is highly emotional and indicates higher special needs.
Basically he felt that the idea would have been better if they ditched the savant part and the robotic behaviors and instead had a story about a relatively high special needs person on the spectrum being a doctor. You don't really ever see those types of autistic characters be main characters. They're usually an accessory or an obstacle to overcome for an allistic character.
You and your boyfriend are far too intelligent for this show is the problem 😂 this is slop that's either for genuinely incurious people or for people who just want noise in the background
From an Aspie? It’s an interesting idea but it could only really be done a certain way, I can’t help making the comparison to Adrian Monk: he’s brilliant at solving puzzles and crimes but he needs someone with him constantly to make sure he doesn’t get distracted by the many-MANY little things that bother him so much he can’t function. So the new Shaun in your scenario would have to be like Adrian: a brilliant surgeon but in need of an assistant/carer always at his side who takes care of all the little annoyances … which in an OR where contamination is a very real danger simply could not work and I’m not sure how any writer could make it work in a semi-believable way …
Finally someone using the idiom correctly.
I work with a lot of surgeons. Honestly, a lot of them make me think they’re on the spectrum with their constant high maintenance needs, constant breakdowns, and either overly emotional or robotic behavior. None of them are special savants, but they are great at what they do. They’re difficult to work with at first until you realize they’re not usually intentionally being rude. They are stubborn to a fault, very rigid, and usually have a strange sense of humor.
But the thing is, the version of the show you described wouldn't actually work. Shaun's medical genius is a plot device used by the writers to make general audiences more likely to watch a show that portrays the unique challenges and nuances of the daily life of a medium support needs autistic person trying to find his place in a neurotypical world. There are lots of shows about a main character who is super talented in their field of work, and this is just another one of those shows - only that character happens to be autistic this time. They literally phrase it that way in the first f*cking episode. Dr. Glassman says something like "Shaun has ASD. He also has savant syndrome." They LITERALLY separate these two aspects with intention from the get go.
The Good Doctor is two shows at once - it is an episodic "hospital patient of the week" show, and it is also the personal life of a medium support needs autistic person. Once you separate those two things, it is much easier to enjoy the show. Say what you want, but this show did an INCREDIBLE JOB at successfully drawing in a wide range of audience demographics to watch a show about an autistic guy. Isnt that worth something?
"How did you find the cure, doctor!?"
"I. Used. My. Autism."
*stares at ceiling*
i almost got mugged once, but thankfully used my autism at just the right time
He says while avoiding eye contact
@@grancoastthat's why i make sure to always carry my autism between my knuckles so i can use it in case there is ever an emergency
@theunderstatement6842 do you keep the safety on, don't want a misfire
@@daiymohermitaurenjoyer9160 part of getting my autism carry certification was a training course on handling it responsibly.
I will never understand how the writing staff wanted us the viewers to think any of this was a good idea when the boss who literally got fired for "discriminating" against him ends up getting proved right when He literally freaks the hell out during his surgery just like predicted.
Like no dude, its not discrimination to call out something for what it is. Its like calling it discriminatory to tell a drunk person they shouldn't drive.
Especially in a field is dangerous as medical surgery for those freak outs can literally get people killed And while I'm definitely against discrimination genuine discrimination I also understand that there's certain people who shouldn't be doing certain jobs like for example in this show whereas you point out someone really flips out during surgery like I don't care how talented the person is they shouldn't have the job In fact with the character being so mentally unstable and incapable of functioning how did they even get the required medical degrees being smart is only one part of the equation for getting those medical degrees it takes a lot of discipline hard work that no amount of intelligence lets you just skip and I don't believe this character is physically or mentally capable of actually doing it
So many businesses have been destroyed because people who are physically handicapped sue places because it doesn't accommodate them being an employee when it's a small business and no it can't pay for a handicap service that is costing vastly more than that workers work ever could be worth
heck There's literally people who have gotten jobs and then don't ever actually do the job because as soon as they get the job they simply say disability and then they can't apparently be fired for not doing their job or it's discrimination
I remember hearing a story of a live in maid who immediately claimed she was handicapped due to her being fat and she refused to do an ounce of work for several years as the family kept trying to get her fired and kicked out of the house with anti discrimination laws basically forcing them to keep employing this person who had never put in a day's work they had to literally start doing things like putting a lock on the refrigerator so she couldn't steal their food
I'd prefer it if they could make a show that does actually depict real discrimination, 29% of UK autistic people are employed other 71% are not and it is due to prejudices that put them off employing autistic folk and they do use tactics to get away with it legally.
The creators teaming up with "Autism Speaks" tells me everything I need to know about this show.
Definitely very sad
Awe man 😢 and I was so into the show during it's run on TV dang it
What's "Autism Speaks"?
@@doloresgronenberg5882 It's an organization that says autistic people have something wrong with them. That they're less than human. They call autism a disease.
@@doloresgronenberg5882 Just look up their "Everyday Autism" ad and it's pretty clear what the problem is.
I stopped the show when Shauns neighbour wanted batteries for a PlayStation controller that was obviously powered by a built-in battery that had to be charged via cable.
😂
"Who was this show's consultant, Autism Speaks!?"
6:05
"JESUS CHRIST, I WAS BEING FACETIOUS."
@@chupitrooper5878 It's an organization that tries to help you, is there really anything wrong with that?
@maximACMN Well uh, their historic ad campaigns painting autism as some sort of creeping, life-ruining curse and an ad where a mother says she planned to drive off a bridge with her on-the-spectrum child.
Basically, they're the PETA of autism.
@@maximACMN they aren't trying to help, they have consistently treated it like a "sickness" to be purged or cured instead of a natural neurodivergence
@johnhager8967 it is an illness though, look at the worst cases too
@maximACMN With all due respect, autism is a lot of things, but an illness should not be one of the first things - let alone any of the things - people think about when they hear the term. Sure, everyone on the spectrum has different experiences and needs (hence the spectrum), but by treating it as some sort of horrible ailment both the people with it and their loved ones are only going to be impacted negatively in the long run. It's part of why the puzzle piece motif is considered harmful; it implies autistic people are "not right/finished" or otherwise need to be "fixed", rather than accepting their behaviors and considering that things like their pattern recognition, detail orientation, etc. can open up new potential and avenues for them.
I don't mean to be *that guy*, but I really wish people on the spectrum would stop being treated like cursed folk in some form or another. It's not everywhere, but when it is I can't help but worry and hope their treatment improves in the future.
I have watched a few episodes on Disney plus and to be honest, I don’t like how the Boss hired Shaun because he’s autistic and wants the hospital to look more inclusive. What really crawled into my skin is how he compared autistics to women and black people.
Exactly. He should hire him because he's competent, not because he's autistic. And I'm saying this as an autistic person. Hence why Shaun honestly sucks as a surgeon, like I said in the video
@@noahthe0tter If someone hired me because of my disability, I would have screamed my head off
I'd quit any job that I got JUST because of my autism (unless it was like, an advocacy thing or something). No way that's gonna be a good work environment.
The first episode of the show started with a board meeting discussing whether or not to hire him with the majority of them unwilling to hire him due to his austism. The main reason he got hired was that the president of the hospital, who is Shaun's guardian, was willing to demote himself if Shaun was less than perfect and one of them really wanted to the president of the hospital.
Yeah I mean let's be clear, he was hired because he is a savant. The autism is just the icing on the cake. I know people have issues with DEI but I hope to God that people don't actually hire incompetent people just because they aren't straight or white or male or typical.
I once saw someone explain that the reason characters are decided to be autistic by fans and liked vs autistic characters internationally played as such is that actual autistic people don't "act" autistic. They ACT like they're "normal." A drunk person doesn't act drunk, they act sober. So when an actor has to act drunk, they have to act like they are the most sober person ever actually. And once it was explained like that it really clicked why actors playing autistic characters never come across quite correctly.
@@jordgev That depends on which end of the spectrum they are on. Some cases are more noticeable than others.
@@ThePrincessCHsome cases are more obvious on the surface, especially when the autistic person doesn’t mask, but it’s very atypical for shows to portray higher needs, more “obvious” autistic people in the first place.
Any good acting us In subtly, the direction and writing of the character, and showing traits that only some would catch onto as potential autism is incredibly hard to get right, especially when the writers and actor aren’t autistic themselves
That is why autistic people generally like autistic coded characters much more than canonically autistic characters; they have a personality outside of being autistic.
You know, characters like Newt Scamander, Monkey D. Luffy or Rainbow Dash.
I think if they really want an autistic character, they should just... Cast an autistic actor. I bring a little autism to every role I play, lol.
@@blackdragon5274 I would not go so far as to say the group identities of actors and the characters they play need to match, but the movie does not get to score any diversity points if they don't.
one thing that is true about his character is he is a surgeon.
He sure is
I AM A-SURGIN'
*electricity soundeffects intensify*
*Sturgeon
Not even that
I feel like this show is terrible autism representation since its constantly reminding us that shaun is autistic and it just feels like the show wants us to forgive Shaun for his actions due to "He'S aUtIsTIC He DoESn'T kNow BeTteR" like dude literally walked up to the girl he liked with a baseball intending to smash her car to bits becuase she rejected him, how did Leah forgive him for that IDK that's a massive red flag in my book, but moving on I feel this show has actually set back people's understanding of autism and how autistic people becuase people look at Shaun and assume every autistic person is like that or worse when in reality most autistic people are just people and not everyone is a mess like Shaun and its just so sad becuase I did like the show but Shaun and his autism being shoved in our face every episode made me not like the show.... this is coming from someone with autistic siblings and friends...its bad rep.
It reminds me a bit of a bad experience I had in High School. You see, being a fairly progressive, mostly Marxist individual, I hung out with a group consisting mostly of LGBT+ and/or neurodivergent people because our ideologies were closer, and we did have some good times. But I was completely unexperienced, and too often I let people get away with shit because I didn't wanna be bigoted, or disagree. There was this droning feeling of being the "token straight cis guy" that felt a bit condescending to everything. And so I didn't call a certain individual on their bullshit far too many times. Long story short, what I mean is: People shouldn't get a pass to be awful just because they're autistic or trans or whatever.
@@francofernandes2006people should be treated as people. People make mistakes all the time, and they need to face consequences. I've been in a situation like yours before
Honestly the thing I've always noticed with autism infection is it always betrays them as completely incapable of accountability and that everyone in the world needs to just deal with the artistic characters actions no matter how horrible they are
He got angry and tried to destroy somebody's several 1000 dollar car cause they rejected him oh it's okay it's not psychotic he's just autistic When well no but it it's still just psychotic and regardless of someone's autistic or whatever mental disability you can't let people get away with it
Like I'm sorry but if someone's Unhealthy enough mentally that they're going to destroy a car because of hurt feelings that person shouldn't be allowed to be in public and honestly I feel like tv keeps trying to push the narrative that it's immorally wrong to have a problem with such actions as long as some mental disorder could be blamed
@@yami122 while also painting autistic people in bad light, because people not conscious enough are gonna think autistic people are psychotic and prone to violent psychopath-like behaviour. It only makes everything worse
I love the Good Doctor and I love Shaun and Lea - but my god, do I HAAATE the baseball bat scene. From the threats of physical violence to the incel-esque verbal assault on Lea....in my headcannon that scene just never happened. I know that the whole point is that Lea led him on for years because she infantilized him, and so this was understandably a turning point at which Lea needed to get a firm talking to in order for her to learn that she needs to respect him as she would any man. I get that. But the way the writers went about it was just....very poorly executed. ugh I hate it so much
Gee, I didn't realize that "The Good Doctor" portrayed autism poorly until recently. My parents used to watch it a lot until they stopped because they possibly lost interest.
Also, today I learned that it was an American adaptation of a South Korean TV series.
It's a pretty bad portrayal yes. But it is interesting that it initially started in South Korea!
It's not, it's rather commendable how faithful it is to gritty realism of autism. Autism isn't quirky or cool.
I am autistic and my mum thought this was a good reprisentation... but then he isnt ANYTHING like myself or ANYONE else i have ever met with autism.
He's incredibly bad for sure
I mean,same thing here. I could kind of relate at times I guess but having your mum explain why he’s good rep or trying to use it to understand you is really uncomfortable. “Oh you do this because of your autism too”. Grosses me out
Mom was excited for this show and she thought I would love it because of the main character.
I hated it immediately.
Mom gave up after season 1.
I am autistic and so is my son. People immediately assume I'd get on board with this show. They get all surprised when I say no.
Why did you hate it immediately?
DUDE MY MOM THOUGHT THE SAME THING!
same
Nah my mom loved this show 💀
Autistic Emergency Room nurse here (also a UA-camr), I haven't actually watched it yet, I saw the "trailer" and I couldn't stand his portrayal. We often have to remind ourselves that "if you've met one autistic person, You've met, but one autistic person" - But I will say, you absolutely need to have "bedside manner" and be able to talk to people and not be an emotionless robot in order to have a therapeutic relationship with a patient. Great video man~!
Thank you very much!! I'm glad you enjoyed this video
Autistic person here - I agree that manners are always important. Autism isn't an excuse for bad manners. It's an explanation for misunderstandings and for some other things, but any autistic person who has the capacity to lead a somewhat independent life also has the capacity to learn what is decent and what isn't. It's a learning process of cause. It's not always as easy as it is for neurotypical people. But autistic people are still people, and most of us, as far as I can say, can and want to learn how to communicate right and how to act decently.
And, contrary to common believe, autistic people often are very emotional people. We just sometimes don't know how to communicate it, but again. It's possible to learn, at least to some degree.
@@ladria9743 Later in the show, another character with autism worked with Shawn. she said very inappropriate things to staff and patients. When confronted by this, she actually used her autism as an excuse and refused to change her behavior. This also makes autistic people look bad. As if we can't learn and grow from our mistakes.
Dude this is so random but I used to watch you a lot like 6 or 7 years ago and I'm going through your channel and its bringing back memories lol
High functioning CNA here, absolutely agree. I have a 'default setting' for greeting patients that comes with a 'voice'. Mainly rehearsed, but it works; especially working in the ICU. I've learned a long time ago that having completely unfiltered thoughts does not help trying to communicate or make for clever conversation.
I managed to watch one episode before deciding on not watching this show. I think the closest thing to portraying someone with autism was Ben Affleck in the accountant.
Have you ever seen Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated? Fred's pretty strongly autism-coded in that and I think they do a great job of showing it in a positive light instead of just having him be whiny and narcissistic like Sheldon.
Fred is iconic. 10/10 autistic character, no notes.
I would quote him so often if my family/friends would actually get the reference (sadly, they would not. 😔)
True! I'd say his hyperfixation is solving mysteries and setting traps to capture the "monsters". He's so enthusiastic about it.
Yup. 100% agree, that Fred is good Autistic representation
I actually have! This is easily the best Scooby Doo show imo, since it had a fantastic overarching mystery and actual character development
My biggest problem with Shaun when I watched this show was he acted and sounded very robotic. I have NEVER seen someone act that way, and I'm autistic myself
Exactly! As a teacher who has autistic students, none of them feel or act like emotionless robots; on the contrary, most of them are very gentle and kind hearted. I'm not saying that there are no autists that act less emotional, but in TV it seems like it's the only case.
I mean I have trouble with emotions, but I work on that everyday. But even at my worst no one would say I'm robotic. Just not always clear. But that's due to more than just my autism.
He sounded more robotic at each next season. I remember that Shaun had some emotion in his voice tone in the first season. But since the third, Freddie Highmore outright sounds utterly monotone.
The issue to me isn't an autistic person acting robotic cause some can be I've met some who are.
The issue however is that not all autistic people are like this, autistic people can be very extroverted cheerful social, other autistic people can be very introverted quiet anxious.
Some autistic people are geniuses but others have low or average IQ.
So the issue is they keep using one specific autistic personality type instead of representing all of the variations
@NathanChick-n8q exactly. Stop making little Einsteins!
As an autistic person, I'm incredibly tired of these kinds of stereotypical representation. I hate that autistic characters are always either infantilized and treated as these pure angels, or are savants. Both of these tropes make it feel like we have to have traits that "make up for" the fact that we're autistic, in order to be worthy. Both things are deeply dehumanizing. This feels like the kind of show allistic people can watch to feel good about themselves for being able to show empathy for an autistic person. Please, if you're going to write an autistic character, at least consult a variety of actual autistic people. This is why I'm writing my own novel series with a cast that features a number of autistic characters. Own voices are so important.
Thank you for calling out this show, though. We deserve better representation.
It shouldn't be as exciting as it is to find an autistic character who isn't one of those two stereotypes. I just want relatable characters, it shouldn't be that hard! Smh
A lot of shows treat autism like a magical power when it isn't.
@@ranitaloca888 I don’t need a character who’s just like me. I don’t even mind the stereotypes. It’s not the stereotype that’s the problem, but the lack of actual character in those stereotype autistic characters. They’re just a list of autistic traits, instead of a “person” (as much as a fictional character can ever be a person). The infantalized autistic characters and the savant autistic characters are almost never treated the same way as the rest of the cast by the writers. That’s my real problem with those stereotypes, that they’re not treated as actual characters.
One of my favorite autistic characters is a low empathy science guy (and also a turtle). There is very little in common between me and this character, our autisms don’t even really present in very similar ways. But they wrote him well enough that he really feels like a feasible autistic person (again, he is literally THE stereotype of an autistic genius), and I’m able to understand and relate to his problems and thought processes better than any of the other characters. I _can_ relate to non-autistic characters, but it’s nice to have a break from translating neurotypical shenanigans (why so much subtext? All the time, they just can’t say what they meeeaaaan), and have a character speak _my_ “language” once in a while.
Edit: I am aware this somewhat contradicts my previous comment. With more reflection I’m able to more clearly state my problem with a lot of this autism representation.
(Also, there IS good autism representation out there, I love looking for it and finding new canonically autistic characters, it’s just that often when a character is stated within the show/movie to be autistic, they’re not written well.)
@@ranitaloca888 In one of the more recent Predator films a young boy's autism was treated as a power the Yautja wanted.
@ranitaloca888 the aggression in this comment is so unwarranted. You literally assumed something about someone, and then attacked their assumed argument. You didn't even bother to ask what they meant. Do better.
-Signed a boy with autism
I never watched the show and only seen the memes about the character. I didn't even know that he was supposed to be autistic. I just thought that he was an just an egotistical prick who doesn't like being told that he's wrong.
Sadly no, he is written as autistic. Definitely not a good thing
My brother has autism, so as time has gone on, my mom has gravitated toward portrayals of autism in media. She watched the show from the first episode. I took one look and said nope. It felt at first glance like it wasn't trying to tell a good story or really represent autism, but instead be hashtag inspirational. It's Simple Jack MD is what I'm saying, and I immediately knew it wasn't worth my time.
Don't get me wrong, there *are* people with autism that act like or are similar to the protagonist in the show. But there are a lot of people that have autism where you wouldn't really be able to tell at first glance. I think what this show got wrong was that it didn't do a good job of explaining not everyone with autism is like Shaun
I actually liked this show for a while back during the first few seasons. It had a decent premise and as a fellow autistic person, I did connect with Shaun a bit at first... AT FIRST. The writing didn't typically bother me; I was just there for the surgery drama tbh. But what irritated me was how Shaun just NEVER improved as a character, no matter how many times he learned the same lesson over and over. He went from being a character I could relate to to a cringy caricature that rarely tried to adapt to social situations the way I had to learn as a kid. I've come so far in masking my autistic traits that I can almost pass for neurotypical now, minus a few obvious hyperfixations. I can successfully empathize with people and filter my comments after reading the room. Shaun was an empty shell of a character with no sense of empathy and a complete inability to filter his thoughts, not to mention he can just NEVER accept when he's wrong. Yes, autistic people tend to feel that way, like their way of doing things is the only way that makes sense to them and everyone else is wrong. But after being told off SO MANY TIMES for making hasty or unorthodox decisions, you'd think Shaun would've picked up on something along the way, but no. He just... never changes, and everyone is just supposed to accept him for it. The show can't decide the right balance of "treating Shaun like a mentally-disabled person" and "treating Shaun the exact same as everyone else". It's incredibly frustrating.
I also had problems with Glassman and that Ethicure bitch whose name I don't remember, and the fact that they straight up killed off Asher in the final season for no fucking reason than to make him a martyr for gay people. In short, the show was better off early when I thought it had room to improve, rather than the later seasons when I realized it never would.
I'm a dentistry student. I'm 4 years behind, currently taking a break year and struggling with a lot with PTSD from childhood and emotional regulation after years of thinking that masking was an option for me. I know this may be a generalization but there is absolutely no way Shaun could have graduated from med school to work as a doctor, given the emotional outbursts and mannerisms he displays in the few episodes I've watched. It feels like they wrote someone with the most cliche characteristics and slapped the doctor degree before throwing him to the hospital instead of taking all the struggles of the process to reach that position into consideration.
Exactly. This kind of autism representation would have shone a lot more in a different setting
I was wondering how he could have done that too. I don't think someone like that would be capable of doing it. It's too much.
Holy crap that’s a good point. When I was a kid I wanted to be a surgeon but I figured out by age 12 that my emotional dysregulation and sensory issues would have made med school way too difficult. Gosh this show would have been SO much better rep if the setup was Shaun in med school learning how to manage his emotional stress while navigating all those complex practical and social scenarios and showing just how much of a toll that takes on a person. It would be way more fitting for his psychological state at the beginning of the show and a better vehicle for exploring the themes of “am I really cut out for this?” without the ridiculously high stakes of a professional surgical setting, and an overall way more satisfying emotional payoff for character growth 😭
This show is why I rely more on animation as a medium of accurate representation than live action shows.
@@papermr.magolorguy7957 absolutely. Animation pretty much always does it better
I theorize that animation tends to be better because so many more animators are autistic or otherwise neurodivergent (though many undiagnosed). It makes it easier to accidentally write good autism rep when you are yourself autistic. And there's been quite a few animators getting late-diagnosed lately. (plus animation is a career that's often a good fit for neurodivergent people, as our hyperfixation abilities can be very useful for making drawing the same thing 2,000 times actually bearable)
Jotaro Kujo isn't even intentionally made to be autistic, but he's better than Shaun.
@@thatonepossum5766personally for me it’s just that it’s so much easier to ignore all the logical fallacies in animation, because it’s fundamentally not trying to be realistic, more so just making good characters instead of realistic and relatable settings. When it’s in live action, the over exaggeration is blatantly obvious, and way harder to forgive than when it’s in animation, which isn’t trying to be too accurate to reality.
@@tacopizzasandwich621 that’s a really good point, and one I hadn’t considered before. 👍
Could you cover the Dhar Mann videos about autism? (To me, the representation is awful)
This could be an interesting video! Dharr Mann is definitely another notorious example of poor autistic portrayals
@@noahthe0tter To be honest, Dhar Mann’s autism videos makes Sheldon Cooper and Shaun Murphy look like amazing representations
Dhar Mann is just awful slop so I'm not surprised
@sophiebyers5496 the fact that I get the big bang reference
Especially that one Dhar Man knock off video with the guy in the wheelchair making stupid faces and noises and calling that “autism” 💀
It bothers me how often these characters have a "superpower" because of autism
fr if it was a superpower I wouldn't be here hurting myself cuz of it
I don’t need a doctor show about a doctor with autism that’s house m.d. and that one is willing to examine flaws and has real character
I love House as (probably?) unintentional autism rep. He's frustrated with other people's behaviors, he's got an ego, and he's overall a jerk.
But he's A GOOD CHARACTER.
He genuinely cares about his work and saving people's lives, and is patient when he needs to be (particularly with kids).
I always imagined House was a high functioning sociopath.
David Shore really said “let’s make the show I already made but worse in almost every way”
Yeah I loved the way House talks with children and crazy people. My favorite scene in House is Merry Little Christmas Bill the Bear.
idk man I tried to watch House again in 2024 and it's very hard to watch. I loved the show during its original run, but as a woman in my 30s, the way House talks to women/about women just makes it very difficult for me to want to spend time with this character. He's a straight up asshole, which would be fine if he had an arc, but he doesn't - he's literally a self destructive misogynistic asshole from start to finish. House is definite enjoyable for individual episodes, but Good Doctor's longer character arcs are MUCH better executed. Mostly because the characters are written as real people capable of growth, and not just permanently flawed shitheads who get in their own way
I like how the doctor in the coat kept starring in a deadpan face while being yelled at
(EDIT: I think I started a war by accident in the replies)
Hahaha 🤣 yeah he just isn't even phased by it
🗿
I feel that just feeds into the ableism around how meltdowns are treated by contrasting someone having a meltdown with how "calm" and "reasonable" the non autistic characters are, while ignoring that said person is ableist and triggered the meltdown in the first place. It makes the already ableist use of the meme feel even more dehumanizing.
@taiga738 Oh, I didn't know that. Maybe I should think before I comment
It's dumb how he's portrayed as evil incarnate for wanting to fire Shaun even though the patient he was operating on when he ran out of the room could have died.
I remember my dad made me and my sister who has autism (my dad doesn't believe in mental health or disorders) watch this and keep telling my sister how she just like good doctor he is selfish because he has people helping him and how she is using her autism as a excuse
That's incredibly awful. I'm sorry you had to watch this because of that
Screw that father man!
This is one of the reasons why I believe talks about disorders and disabilities shouldn't go mainstream. They might bring awareness, but they also serve as ammo for people who will not be convinced by any means possible.
@@RKNancy that mindset could be applied to literally anything ever
Child abuse
Now now, let's be fair about TBBT. Sheldon isn't Autistic, they even say as much in the show. If he was autistic then the show would be laughing at autism. Instead it's just laughing at someone for doing things that autistic people do. That's much better.
Also, the "I am a surgeon" scene is a perfect encapsulation of the difference between tolerance of disabilities and "making accommodations". He is mentally not capable of being in the position as shown by the meltdown in that scene, however many would call it "discrimination" to make that the reason to turn him down.
(Before you get your panties in a bunch, I am also Autistic)
SIDE NOTE: I was bothered by the depiction of Julia in Sesame Street. Mostly at the idea of the kids having to stop what they were doing to accommodate Julia who was upset by loud noises (even worse when she wasn't playing with them originally anyway).. This can leave people thinking "better not play with them, we won;t be able to do what we want". What they should have done instead is have her with ear muffs, still do the loud noises, and have a character explain "She has trouble with loud noises, so she takes steps to avoid hearing it". This explains about the individual making accommodations, as well as putting light on "weird quirks" as having normal explanations.
If the show were good autistic/disability representation, it would be like Monsters University.
In there the MC has a fictional disability that makes him unqualified for certain work that he wants to do (he wants to scare kids but he just isn’t scary). And despite wanting it more than anyone and working hard, he fails, he never becomes a scarer. He even gets kicked out of the school for his shinanigans.
However the movie ends with him finding another way to work in the industry he cares about, even if not in the position he wanted but he still finds happiness.
Then the entire industry collapses due to technological advancement. However he was able to find employment and happiness in the newer emerging industry, that just so happen to be friendlier to his specific disability in a position that would be comparable to the one he wasn’t qualified for
@frankwest5388 can't have that these days. "If your workplace isn't suitable for the disabled, change your workplace to accommodate them" and all that.
@@almightyk11 the fact that a movie from 2013 can’t be considered “these days” anymore is throwing me for a loop ngl 💀
I finally went to therapy again after the last one said the moon was making me sad. I called the office and described my situation, that I used to be in spec ed for ADHD and autism and that I'm looking for a therapist for depression and severe social anxiety. She asked if I'd prefer a male or female therapist, and though I'm female and would probably ideally like my therapist to be too, I said anyone was good as long as they find someone who fits my situation. It's really hard to come by therapists for my issues among the sea of "life coaches" and I've had a ton of bad ones, so the important thing was finding anyone that could have expertise in this area. No need to limit it further. She listened to all this and then proceeded to set me up with a guy that got his degree in theology and became a counselor through doing couple's counseling at his ministry. No experience whatsoever in autism/ADHD/etc. His latest brush up with psychology was apparently in 2000 when he wrote a paper about "the left brain vs the right brain." He called me the good doctor and kept bailing on my appointments. Then he acted mad at me for looking down on people with autism (supposedly, for not wanting something...not exactly aimed for me) except he had that exact film of separation and condescension as everyone else. Why act mad at me for the same thing he does? He seemed genuinely upset at the question.
This doctor has no TARDIS?!? Bullcrap!!
Or a Phonewave, for that matter!
Ok a brighter note Great job on the video. Honestly now I want to do some deep character analysis myself@@noahthe0tter
You should!! I'd love to see
@@noahthe0tter The fucks a phonewave again?
I’ve seen so many bad autistic representation in my life I basically went “fine I’ll do it myself” and started writing
Shows like these are why I never tell people I have autism
Why?
:(
same here man
@@jmrabinez9254because of stereotypes
@@TheExFatal Which stereotypes are you talking about? And why are those stereotypes a reason why does OP doesn't wanna tell people that he has autism?
I'm a psychologist with a brother and several friends with Autism as well as several clients. When I hear about parents of clients or colleagues mention "The Good Doctor" I fight the urge to groan and I politely advise them to look into Abed's character from Community for a better representation of Autism in media.
Abed is so, so much better
Abed is by far my favorite example of Autism representation in media. The floor is lava episode really captures what every other piece of media misses about Autism: It isn't a lack of emotion/feelings, it's difficulty processing and expressing those emotions and feelings. People on the spectrum aren't robots, they're just out of tune with what they feel a lot of the time.
@@LazarNaskov okay, now what about low-functioning ones?
@@maximACMN I'm not as comfortable saying things about low-functioning autistics, since I myself am pretty high-functioning. Just via my job and volunteer work I interact somewhat regularly with low-functioning children, and while I would say the same rules apply, it's to a totally different degree. I also haven't seen a ton of media with low-functioning autistic people in it, so I can't really comment on that either.
I have never in my life have seen a mental illness represented well, by a story that set out with an explicit goal to represent mental illness. DID, PTSD, Trauma, Schizophrenia, Narcisim, Psychosis, Autism, Amnesia none of them were ever represented well by a story that promoted itself with the name of the diagnosis in its mouth.
I have twice. Unseelie, a book with an autistic lead and written by an autistic woman. The book itself isn’t the best piece of literature I’ve ever read, but it represents its autistic lead well, and lets an autistic person go on a fantasy adventure (autistic rep is super absent from fantasy in particular, so it was nice to see).
And Percy Jackson, which features a mostly neurodivergent cast, though it does use the “X disorder is actually a superpower” trope, it doesn’t do it in an obnoxious way. It’s not peak neurodivergent rep, but it’s pretty nice.
In that case, I suggest OMORI. That game has even been described as the "Perfect Portrayal of Trauma".
There should be a warning for when someone makes a show or writes a book or something and they ask anyone from Autism Speaks for advice for writing an autistic character. It keeps people an early option to leave before they learn the hard way.
Yup, people should not work with Autism Speaks
I haven't actually seen the Good Doctor but I really dislike how it kind of popularised the autism savant stereotype more so than Rainman, great video as always man I enjoy watching!
Another Korean show that presents a sensitive, realistic and respectful portrayal of autism is Extraordinary Attorney Woo… the lead actress was actually very reluctant to take the role since she is not autistic and feared she would not do a good job portraying an autistic person, but she apparently did a ton of research when studying for the role, and in my opinion does a really incredible job… highly recommend the show to everyone!
I know Ive mentioned him before, but the things that are wrong with the Good Doctor's Autism Representation are much better in Criminal Minds with Reid. It's actually really strange the parallels I'm seeing thanks to your video.
It's a similar premise, a person who is undeniably on the spectrum in a position of saving the lives of others, just as an FBI profiler instead of a surgeon.
Reid's autism is much more subtle. It tends to be more blatant in the early seasons but that's because he isn't close with his team or very experienced in his career yet so he's not quite comfortable in his new environment yet. The one thing he never is, is insensitive. He's actually profoundly empathetic towards others though he doesn't always express this perfectly. Sometimes he forces his friends to confront hard feelings and emotions they need to, but would rather not deal with, and he tends to put up walls and have trouble accepting support and help when he's the one who needs it.
But I can think of one time, one time in 15 seasons, where Reid said anything that could be construed as hurtful. It was in season 2 where a teammate was being accused of murder and Reid and another teammate were talking to the family to get some background. Reid pointed out that law enforcement are no more or less likely to commit crimes than the general public. The sister of the teammate who was accused, took offense to this, but statistics are one of Reid's special interests, and he was calm because it was so obvious to him that his friend was innocent that he wasn't worried at all about them being able to prove it. He didn't say or mean to even suggest that he was guilty, just that his choice of career wasn't a factor.
Interesting....it sounds like I should actually give Criminal Minds a shot then 🤔
this show makes no sense. How was shaun even able to go through medical school without learning any coping mechanisms or masking?
8:58 as long as Autism Speaks exist were not going to see that be the case.
Thank you, Otter Guy
My pleasure!
As someone who has actually watched every episode of Good Doctor since it came out, it has a loooot of cringe and problematic writing decisions (as to be expected from the person who made House 💀) but I can never hate on Freddie Highmore's performance as Shaun bc he is "literally me" lol the way he walks/talks/carries himself and even his meltdowns are almost an exact match to how I act in real life so when I see other autistic ppl call things like the surgeon scene a bad representation bc "it's not realistic no one acts like that" it kinda hurts because like,,, i act like that ;-;
That's not to say I don't still have issues with how Shaun's character is written bc of course I do and it sucks that the show had so much potential to be something deeper but they chose to keep resetting Shaun's character development every season and not really have any of the things he learns stick, just keeping him stubborn and rigid "because autism" even at the cost of just acting like a jerk sometimes, even if it feels unnatural to the plot and makes no sense lmao, it kinda fell into the same trap of all other american medical dramas where you either die the hero (get cancelled after one season with a really cool premise and lots of room to cook) or live long enough to see yourself become the villain (keep airing wayy past when the show fell off and devolve into a soap opera that's barely even about medicine anymore)
At its best The Good Doctor had some really touching episodes that made me feel very represented but at its worst it had me physically cringing like "now who tf decided _this_ lmao" it's a mess but even with all its flaws i still don't think the show was as much a disaster for the community as some other people seem to lol i give it 5/10 🤷♀
but yeah, like i said i'm of the unpopular opinion that Shaun is actually a very GOOD autism representation (at least to me, but like they say "if you've met one person with autism you've met one person with autism" so i do think there should have been more autistic characters in the show with different characteristics which would make shaun feel less stereotypical (and they did do this with a few characters in later seasons actually played by autistic actors but i still think there coulda been more)) but i think the main problem with the show is how it tries to use that for inspiration p0rn, instead of just making a good story with an autistic character they make the story ABOUT the autism instead of about the _character_ and then that's why people get turned off bc it makes all his struggles feel a lil artificial when they frame the whole ass rest of the story to show him "overcoming" it instead of just playing things out organically, like you said the narrative kind of babies him too much which definitely can give NTs the wrong impression (and that's why you can tell the show was written _for_ them and not "for us" as much as i still enjoyed part of it)
For me, the unrealistic aspect isn't from how Highmore plays the character, or even that scene (because I agree, it was a good representation of a meltdown actually), its that the Circumstances are absurd. Realistically, he would not be a surgeon and rightly so. He can't perform all aspects of it reliably, if at all, and is a walking liability. And instead of the show acknowledging that and doing something interesting about learning to work with your limitations, and developing coping mechanisms and techniques that will let him work in his field, they just go "But he's so special! Look at the little unicorn, he tries so hard, lets have this unrealistic fantasy play out and completely disregard the reality of actual autistic people!".
Which is the part I find insulting. As an autistic person, I've needed to find workarounds, develop routines and coping mechanisms, learn to read people and I STILL struggle. There are STILL things I can never do. So to me, it always felt less like representation of an authentic autistic experience and more like some strange performance of the magical savant sticking it to the world because they are just that special and precious. Being autistic is the ONLY important thing about him, and thats all. And because of that, he comes across as someone to be felt sorry for and cooed at, rather than respected. He never changes, never grows, never develops even basic techniques to help him perform his duties.
I do think Highmore did a great job with what he was given - its just that what he was given was utter garbage
@@impposter560 yup exactly, great point
Yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel about the show, I can’t disregard the first few seasons cuz actually getting to watch an adult autistic main character (which was quite rare to find) and their just-a-little-too-relatable struggles is what finally got me to seriously reflect and look into that childhood “misdiagnosis” that explained a whole lot actually 😅
Whether or not this show ‘paved the way’ or whatever, I am glad that there’s (relatively) a lot more rep to choose from now! ^_^
Eh, I'm on the autism spectrum and I personally like 'The Big Bang Theory' and 'Young Sheldon.' I can understand why other people wouldn't, though. I never saw 'The Good Doctor,' partially because I always found Freddie Highmore to be a very annoying and one-note actor.
Same here, Sheldon is a lot easier to like and understand, to me he is trapped in a world he dose not fully understand because of how his mind works and he struggles to function hence why he comes off the way he dose, but he can and dose learn to understand when he is wrong and will make amends, where shows like House and the good doctor make the character impossible to like because they never learn and the character never goes beyond the traits giving them depth. And don't get me started on how the good doctor is a terrible doctor but because he is on the spectrum he can do whatever he wants and anyone who points how that is gonna backfire in a hospital gets yelled at for being mean.
I knew a kid with autism who could only say his name and cake. My poor friend at the day care was in charge of keeping an eye on him. Holy cow that was rough. He would finish his shift every day exhausted and covered in sweat trying to chase after the kid constantly. One time there was a birthday and he just kept diving into the cake excitedly yelling "cake cake cake!" Mashing it up and grabbing fists of it. I still laugh at the craziness. He was a nice kid but was clearly beyond my friends expertise ❤. No one else got cake that day😂
To be fair cake is amazing.
i will never understand how david shore went from making House to making whatever this is 😭
As someone who is Autistic, I appreciate this video talking about it, I haven't been able to watch the show yet, but this gives me an idea of what this character will be like, so thank you for this 👍
You’re right, this isn’t a character. It’s a surgeon.
Thank you for tearing this show to shreds Noah. This is the kind of Autism representation I don't want to see.
My pleasure! We all deserve better autism representation than this
@@noahthe0tter 100% agreed. To be honest, knowing that this show consulted Autism Speaks explains a lot as to why Shaun is such a poorly written character.
@@dylanfleurentin647can you choose other organizations that are good choices
The irony in the showrunners’ previous doctor show, house md, being insanely more accurate autism representation without being intended as one 😭
You're absolutely right.
Glad you understand!
I remember that video of someone playing the medic class in Battlebit running around and screaming I AM A SURGEON when he healed people
And. Honestly who cares about "rupresintatewn" in the fucking big bang theory. The joke is that everyone in that show are terrible people. It doesn't pretend to be a serious show. And it ended better than I AM A SURGEON.
We need more Abed’s (from Community).
Yes, yes we do
As an autistic person, I actually really love this show, and I can actually relate to a lot of the challenges Shawn faces
I am autistic and when I told my family that I didn't like this show my sister had the gall to say that the show wasn't "made for me" because one of my points was that no autistic person I have ever seen talk about the show say that they relate to Shawn. Sure, some people pointed out "this tiny thing was fine" but then what?
And I truly think if I ever went to a hospital and my doctor behaved like Shawn, I'd have a pretty good case for a lawsuit :)
This is a great video! Boy does The Good Doctor suck, I sure hope it's the last show of its kind, like you said
Thank you very much!! I'm glad you liked the video 💚
To me the funniest part is to think that you can "demote" someone to pathology. First of all, surgery is not above pathology, they're two different medical specialties and you need a completely different set of knowledge.
What made me infuriated with the show is how on one episode, It had something to do with rebranding the hospital, And the new boss said she was also neurotypical……
*it’s neurodivergent*
I didn't see THAT episode when I was watching it on Disney Plus for this review, but given the lack of research the writers definitely have, I'm not surprised
you sure she didn't just say neuroAtypical?
i do agree tho i hated that whole salen plot because they purposely introduced the *one* adhd character solely to be the villain while also having her use her disorder as an excuse for her behavior, and then once they were done with all the drama promptly erased the character and everything she did with no lasting consequences lmao
@ I’ll go check that out in a little bit
as an autistic person, thank you so much for making this video.
three months ago, my family and i had gotten far enough into the show to get to the "I AM A SURGEON!" episode, and i could not hold back my disgust at that moment.
unfortunately, at that time, i was a guy who, as i was forced to reveal at the tail end of my final trimester, hadn't been doing well in his studies, and had only just finished his last trimester, and had been severely punished over the few months BEFORE that because i was giving off the impression that i was "too relaxed" about my studies.
i was a guy who unfortunately wasn't quite ready to enter the working world proper because i wanted more time for myself with my non-studies-related interests (video games, watching chess streams, etc) but was constantly pushed into looking for a job, and was constantly being seen as not taking the whole job-hunting process seriously, to the point that i was once denied lunch for several hours just because my mom mistakenly thought i wasn't taking a job application deadline seriously and deliberately lagging behind on filling in and submitting the required documents.
i was a guy who was already failing at the tasks i was called on to help with in the family business.
i was (and still am) a guy who already eats slowly and yet could not go TWO DAYS without getting ragged on by my mom for paying too much attention to the dinnertime movie/TV episode in front of me and not enough attention to the food i was supposed to be eating at a "reasonable" speed AT HOME, AT THE END OF THE DAY.
i was (and still am) a guy who was VERY lucky to have been deemed unfit for national service in my country.
the result? when i groaned loudly in disgust at the "I AM A SURGEON!" moment, my mom screamed at me to shut up, to just finish my food because "everyone has finished eating except you!" (ignoring how close i actually was to finishing at the time), and that i was "pointing out everyone's mistakes except your own!"
my brother (my closest friend in my life) and my dad didn't sympathize with me either, even when i pointed out all the typical ways neurotypicals mock autistic people on the internet (the R-slur; the use of "autistic" as an insult; "aren't we all autistic?", etc); they just told me i was "overreacting". and because i still didn't have a job at the time, i had to sit through a lecture from my mom about how "we all have to suffer at least a bit to get what we want in our lives, and you're not suffering enough" or whatever the bloody hell she was saying that basically meant i didn't even deserve basic respect for who i was.
i still live with them because the cons of finding my own place away from them still outweigh the pros, and i DID eventually "suck it up" and continue watching the show with them at the dinner table (at least until we found _Line of Duty_ and went to watching that instead because it's actually a good show), but i highly doubt i'll ever be able to forgive them for this.
to this day, i'm still averse to watching or listening to that "I AM A SURGEON!" moment again, and even when i started watching *this* video, i had to take a pause and remind myself that this was what i was choosing to walk into by clicking on a video with such a title before i continued watching.
but yeah, that's enough about me. thank you so much for making this video. subbed!
Honestly, as an autistic person, I actually… really like the good doctor. It’s definitely not a perfect show- hell, sometimes it’s not even a very good show- but for me personally, it’s actually a comforting watch. Guess it goes to show that every person’s autism is different? I don’t pretend the show is particularly deep, and I know it’s a little on the pretentious side sometimes, but I actually see a lot of depth in the problems the characters have at least in my own life. I… like, that the characters around Shawn treat him differently. Because that’s how it feels, for me. And sometimes it’s resolved, sometimes it isn’t, but the good doctor reminds me of all the different ways people have tried to interact with me and my autism, especially when I was young, and it reads as painfully real to me in that aspect because a lot of characters don’t even realize they’re being ableist. Glassman has this overprotective attitude, this bias that Shawn is a thing to be kept safe, that he’s fragile, Lea believes he’s being intentionally obtuse when she knows he isn’t, and while she tries not to, infantilises him- I ended up adoring Melendez because for the most part, past the first season or so, he’s genuinely pretty unbiased towards Shawn on a lot of occasions. I like the good doctor because it reminds me of how people used to treat me, and even if Shawn doesn’t win in the long run, seeing him prove them wrong, even in obvious, standardised plots with ‘inspirational’ undertones, makes that part of me feel really validated. I agree that a lot of his manner is just over the top, but some parts of it I adore- his staring into space is something I always do, sort of blanking instead of emoting while walking between locations, getting angry when people try to talk about his autism because shut up, that’s not who I am. Even though he’s often a caricature, Shawn Murphy hits those little things that make me feel so… freed, almost? I’m not saying it’s wrong to hate the show- I don’t like a lot of the episodes! But for what it’s worth, I think the actor did his best with what was given, and for me at least he managed to strike a chord.
i totally understand this comment i feel really similar to you
My husband (who has Aspergers) and I talked about the "I AM A SURGEON!" scene. In short, he found it a hilarious, yet grossly mischaracterizing scene of the autism spectrum.
People on the spectrum aren't like that. They don't act like that, nobody does. He more would have tried really hard to bargain with the boss, doing and saying anything he could think of to convince him that he's actually a good fit, will change his behavior, etc. If the boss was still insistent, then he would have probably gotten very upset, but would have done his best to hide it via just going flat/stone faced, said something along the lines of, "Okay, no problem". And walk away, in case he ended up saying something that he shouldn't.
Why do people hate so much on Autism representation? If you are Autistic you know it's a SPECTRUM. Autism can't be correctly representated because it's a SPECTRUM. There's a million different ways Autistics act... I have Autism and I barely show any signs, I work with children with Autism and they show a lot of signs. It's a SPECTRUM for a reason. We don't all act the same or act perfectly. There are no autistics that show the perfect signs and have the perfect symptoms. It's a spectrum there's different ways!
“Autism representation” on TV is why I often hear “you don’t seem autistic” from people who have clearly never met someone with autism before. Which has affected my experience with working, relationships, and so much more. It pisses me off, my life is already stressful. It’s more stressful that people don’t believe I have autism because I don’t line up with the autism they see on TV/presented by Autism Speaks. It’s actually forced me into jobs like janitor work and shit to escape the pressure and stress of more traditional jobs.
When I was in School I would always compare myself as a dented gem. Just a defective robot that can’t fit into the factory and needs to get recalled and thrown with the rejects. I have high-functioning autism and sometimes people don’t even notice cause I never needed a mask to hide because I express who I am. A over generous, kind, patient, and understanding man. Yet I felt like I didn’t deserve to be labeled as an Autistic such as many Autistics feel. And to see a show that takes at least the first few episodes of the first season to be relatable, it was too much so I stopped, and I didn’t even know it was funded by autism speaks
Absolutely - Autism Speaks is very harmful with the stereotypes they spread
@@noahthe0tter yes series like this make people to have a lot of misconceptions about autism, I literally read a comment of someone who said “autistic people don’t have feelings, they are like robots but at least they all are very intelligent” and also I had a teacher who believes ABA therapy is the only thing that can help children no matter how traumatic it can be
@@UniChimma I don’t know if I should be amazed or disgusted more people had to use defective robots as an analogy
@@carmel9583 Sorry, can you say that again? English is not my language so I’m trying my best in order to understand this video
@@UniChimma I am surprised more autistics are portrayed as robots
While I largely agree with your criticism of the show, one thing I'd like to push back on is the idea that Shaun should have accepted his role as a pathologist since it would have fit him more. I think that there's definitely a compelling angle to having an autistic character fight for a role he struggles with due to his autism, but otherwise has a knack for due to his intelligence and talents. Being pigeonholed into a more isolated position, from Shaun's perspective, would be squandering his potential to save more lives as a surgeon. Plus, idk if it's a good message for an autistic main character to just 'accept' their limitations at the cost of giving up on their passions or talents.
The real problem imo, is that, instead of Shaun arguing this position passionately and vulnerably, displaying the humanity underneath while also making a compelling case for his role as a surgeon, he instead just yells "I AM A SURGEON" after explicitly being told that any more push back would cause him to be fired. If you're gong to push back after a warning like that, it'd need to be an argument where everything, both logic and emotion, is laid bare. But instead it just comes off as an emotional outburst, and makes him look way less qualified than I think the writers intended him to come off as.
Like, what if, instead of shouting "I AM A SURGEON" over and over, he instead yelled the names of all the patients he's saved over the course of the show. Now THAT would have been something, I think.
Most “mainstream” attempts at ASD representation fall into an overarching problem: try and do everything that “autistic people are/do” in one character, while often using them as a means of doing the “difference between the normal and the other”… As someone who didn’t know until I was 20 about ASD, nonetheless I never felt ostracised to the levels that Dr. Murphy or Sheldon Cooper come off.
And yeah, it’s hard to show theory of mind but that’s why we work on it. We’re not stagnant, we grow and change like anyone else does.
Thank you!!!! My son is autistic and I hate this stupid show!!!
I started watching the show shortly after my autism diagnosis, thinking I was getting some representation. But immediately I see the scene where a rabbit was brutally killed and I turned it off, I dont even remember if it had a warning for that. I didnt watch the show since and after learning that they used Autism Speaks as reference I'm glad I made that choice.
Soft much? Animals die, you constantly see dead pigeons in the streets, and kids living in villages are taught how to kill and unfeather chickens
I am autistic I AM autistic I AM AUTISTIC I AM AUTISTIC!!!
I hope that didn’t offend anyone I’m autistic and found the moment funny
Actually tho
I'm autistic and couldn't even make it through the first episode. God I was angry. WE ARE NOT ROBOTS! And Autism Speaks can go to hell.
Autism Speaks is awful, I agree
Even Data from Star Trek (supposedly that character might be seen as a sort-of allegory for autism), who is a FUCKING ROBOT, didn't feel as robotic as Shaun.
@@noahthe0tteryou don't even say why
@@maximACMN they support an abusive therapy (like, known to quickly cause trauma in patients, kind of abusive), spent significant amounts of their funds trying to cure autism (this is not possible), made a hugely fear-mongering ad in like 2007 framing autism as worse than cancer, claiming it will tear families apart. They have like one autistic board member, despite high functioning autistic people generally being well suited to jobs in disability advocacy (that is to say, autistic people easily could be on the board, they consciously choose not to have autistic people on the board).
Edit: I think they also spread the “vaccines cause autism” misinformation for a while, despite it being solidly disproven for decades.
@thatonepossum5766 How do we know it's not possible? Medicine evolves constantly, so it's probably possible
Watching this video is honestly very cathartic for me. I'm autistic, and while I haven't seen full episodes of this show, every clip I've come across has rubbed me the wrong way. I was wondering for the longest time if I was just weird for finding the show off-putting, so I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one.
Now I'm curious what the original South Korean version is like
He's not a character he's a sturgeon
I’m praying that Freddie apologizes to the entire A.S.D. community for the seven years mistakening a disorder for a uniform.
I don’t think that’s fair. He’s acting is his job. He acted how he was told to act. For fuck’s sake,this show had autistic specialists
but it wasnt his fault???? blame the ones who even made this series into a idea
No. This is like blaming an Amazon factory worker for Jeff Bezos’ actions. Freddie didn’t write the script. He was told to play this character and he did what he could with the script he was given.
If you want to blame someone, blame the showrunners and script writers who greenlit his character’s writing.
@@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185He is an adult. Hold him responsible. HE failed to do his research. That is on him. And it will hopefully be a stain on his career because he deserves at least that for adding to discrimination.
Up until about six months ago I genuinely thought this show only had one season. That was a better world.
I would highlight one of the accidental keynote you gave: "he sees things from a different POV"
One thing that f-s me as an Autist, is how our thinking is both "exoticised" & degraded in the same sense. Like. They "think" it's a compliment. But in reality, it's like (un)intentional racists phrase it "OMG! Japanese see things from such a different POV! It's so exotic! It's giving oriental. It's giving...Kimchi."
Meanwhile, if we were NT, we were just "natural geniuses". But nope. No matter on the spectrum. We are always seen as the "cute savant" 🙄
I had to watch the opening clip like 100 times before getting to the main vid 😂
Imo after talking about this with my bf who got autism, its a weird thing where both him and sheldon are both at extremes where its not necessarily good or bad. Good if u get the extremes out there because some may understand autistic peoples struggles more but this is ONLY if they understand its simply an extreme but if this was a first introduction or you already haven’t got a open mind, autistic friends, ect then it can normalise this behaviour and may jump to the conclusion that thats the only way they are like which is damaging.
The best autistic characters are those that aren’t intentional written that way. Pretty much every single person in the Gang in Always Sunny in Philadelphia exhibit autistic/adhd behaviors and they were never intended to be coded as such but because of that, making that connection as a viewer is so much easier and makes the characters feel far more real. A lot of intentionally written autistic characters are written as children in adult bodies who don’t know a thing about social interactions. Sure, some people do have more struggles than others but we aren’t idiotic babies.
he wants to be house so bad but he simply does not have the swag
honestly I've worked a few small jobs and its a lot harder than neurotypical people think, for me it's the sensory overload that got me on one of them and ultimately led to me being let go
(I was working at a small cafe and a lot of things happened one day I wasn't prepared for plus it being the busiest day, this culminated in me almost having a panic attack and hiding in the dish pit so as to not cause a scene while I tried to calm down, my co-workers were very understanding and kind towards me but my manager was really pissed that it happened at all)
it's really hard to get the understanding needed from people for situations like this and most people (especially if you're high functioning like me) are assumed to just be overreacting or something... it sucks
When you make a point of a character with a dissability doing something big it makes it seem like an exception and not the status quo.
Well said knuckles
include that with them being in a job with co-workers that never listens or trust what the individual has to say despite being right and proving them wrong every single time
A wise echidna once said this
"I'M A SURGIN'!" Sean moments before turning into Electro and having to get knocked out by Spider Han.
I think that people that want to write shows about characters with autism, should consult people with autism. They are normal people like us, not aliens or super heroes that are good to only one thing. I would like to see a good tv show that actually shows how people with autism are and not make them cliche. Like, those people have their own lives, they are not only one thing, let them have their own stuff going on, without making them be the " loners", some people with autism do have dating lives and friends and are not just the stereotypical geniuses, there are not all the same. Just bc they have autism, does not mean their whole existence is that. (Atypical for example, managed to show for me a good side of that).
I agree. Disney and David Shore should have worked with ASAN, not Autism Speaks
Highly recommend Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated for a show with a 10/10 autistic character. They made their Fred Jones autistic in that show, and they nailed it. They treat him exactly the same as any other character, he has a love life, and while his special interest in traps (and mysteries by proxy) is somewhat exaggerated, he does exist as a character outside of doing those things.
They never say in the show that he’s autistic, but the lead writer basically confirmed it in an interview, so I count him on the list of “canon autistic.”
@thatonepossum5766 we actually rewatched Mystery Incorporated in my discord recently! Easily the best Scooby Doo show
It’s funny how Atypical ran out of autistic stereotypes so they just started giving the MC actual character traits instead. Better late than never I guess
@cosmicspacething3474 But autistic characters do have actual character traits, theyre not only their autism. The stereotype would be for him to be only like the guy from good doctor. Who's by the way, in the original version, the Korean one, bc I watched it before Good Doctor came out, like yeeeeaara ago, he doesn't have autism, there he has a syndrome. So, it's not the same at all. And it is more realistic in the Korean version for me. Even though the American version it's a complete copy, especially the first episode. After some time, they start writing the show on their own, bc the Korean has like 13 or 16 episodes and the American went from that to like...5 seasons+. I couldn't watch it all, it was not realistic to me any more 😂.
IKR finally someone else is saying this. I thought I was alone
Do you think the Good Doctor IS actually good? Am I horribly wrong? 🤔 Tell me down below👇🏻
He's awful. Whenever someone I only recently got to know finds out I have autism they act so surprised because I don't throw any tantrums or whatever. It's like, do I have to yell "I'm a surgeon! I'm a surgeon!" so I am "convincing?"
I really don't understand. I'd argue House MD is a better representation of autism than Sean.
Interesting! I've never heard of House being autistic. But I sure agree Shaun sucks as any kind of autistic representation
No, it is a bad representation and I just can stand this kind of characters
I haven't seen/heard of this show in FOREVER. There's, uhh, a reason though... I dipped out like ep 1-3 because of these reasons. I sometimes seen the odd one here and there, but it was indeed bad representation. And quite hard to watch at that.
He does kind of remind me of a friend I have who has autism, but that doesn’t mean it’s accurate for everyone. He does get upset and might start screaming sometimes but he used to do it a lot more when he was younger.
I’ve never really bothered to do much research on autism as interesting as it sounds, so I can’t say if this is the situation a lot or little amount of people
I'd love to see Doctor House and Doctor Cox confront Shaun Murphy, and basically tell him that he's an idiot.
There's a video of House and Good Doctor
May I suggest a kind of spark ? Based of a book written by an autistic author then adapted into a tv show with multiple autistic characters all played by autistic actors. In my opinion some of the best autistic representation i’ve ever seen
I'll have to give it a watch!
As someone who has talked to multiple people with autism and went on an Instagram rant about the Good Doctor, thank you. My beef got ignited from the trans episode where Murphy was in his usual “black and white world” way. I truly want to know why this show fell back on tired old stereotypes, especially when multiple people with autism are also queer and had grown past the basic struggles shown. Being autistic does not equate to being static and complacent.
Being also autistic, I remember when I was younger and how on one hand it was not super hard to see characters like me on television but on the other hand they tended to wear a German uniform (the fact I'm part German and have a German sounding surname adds another side to this but I won't get into that now).
Sometimes I watch shows where they have characters explicitly have autism and start to wonder, why is this praised as insightful when Erich Von Klinkerhoffen is lowbrow and a stereotype?
The best autism coded characters are from bobs burgers (teddy, mort, and bob)
The lack of good autism representation in media does inspire me to write autistic characters. There is a character who already felt more like myself than most characters I write, because I made her *artistic*. Then I realised probably is *autistic* too.
What compels me to write fantasy/sci-fi is the potential for intricate, well thought out symbolisms. These genres give extra creative freedom. Being indirect is definitely a great benefit. You can reflect the real world, but your story doesn’t have to be set in the real world. So, you can tackle touch/taboo topics in a roundabout, more digestible way. The thing is, with great creativity, does come great responsibility to make sure your audience is keeping up.
So, I found it interesting to reflect (a unique, individual case of) autism in a giant. She was a giant before she was autistic, but I think these two aspects gel well. I’ll introduce her as tough, assertive, strong, intimidating. Kind of what you expect giants to be. But, that’s a mask. Furthermore, I can explore the sentiment that the world isn’t made for us in a different, perhaps more literal way. Autistic people tend to not fit in. Giants… literally don’t. They can’t enter homes. They can’t hide under trees others can hide under. Since she’s a giant, she can’t really be very covert when it comes to stimming, body language, eye contact, sensory sensitivities. And she feels like she’s always looked at weirdly. Her overarching arc is more so a sense of belonging. Something I think everyone can relate to, in their own way. And the theme of the story at large is looking at people for who they are, rather than what they are. Looking beyond labels, beyond stigmas, beyond biases.
I always find it interesting to dive into different sort of heads. But diving into hers feels great too. We’re not the same. But we’re similar. She’s the character I may have put most of myself into, at least when it comes to personality and interests. Maybe not as much in beliefs. I think she’s generally more pessimistic than I am.
I'm glad how he's portrayed. Nobody suspects I'm autistic thanks to him.
I mean that's one way of looking at it. 😂