The Expanse Series - The Unknown Aggressors
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Who killed the gate builders? What are they and what can they do?
in this video we will explore those questions. The Expanse Series - The Unknown Aggressors.
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Thank you for these Expanse explanations and book summations. Best channel ever!
Thank you.
My understanding of the Goths being between spaces is not that they are in the sub quantum level, they are simply outside, in a incomprehensible way like third dimension would be to a stick figure. That's why the builders would risk so much angering them to put a scar (the slow zone) in their "home" to bend space-time, because that was the only way. Eventually the goths also put a scar in "their house", the bullets. And when the humans were messing with them, we, just as incomprehensible to them, they adapted in many ways to invade our space, always disrupting our fabric of spacetime and causality. It only wasnt a easy massacre because nature (what ever that is at this point) doesnt like that interaction between these dimensions, if it was about quantum buzz buzz buzz, that would be a property of our dimension which would mean we wouldn't be that much of a challenge to dimensional gods
I have always looked at the spaces between universes are most likely to be on the quantum level. Life that is between universes would not be gods, just a different form of life. but in book nine I got the impression that they may have come from another universe. But how would one know if they came from between universes or a totally different universe.
I dont believe the negotiation is possible due to great difference between our and their species. Conflict will be averted by shuting the ring systems and scattering the humanity throught the stars I think. And it will be protoAmos doing :)
Also I believe that Tecoma star incident was not intention of unknown aggressors but rather trap created by protobuilders (kind of the mind game the Duarte was going to play with Unknown Aggressors). Not only it was said that the star was keeped on the verge of collapse by unknown means, not only the gate was intentionally positioned to by strucked by GRB but it was also said that central station in slow zone was build to withstand the GRB.
In book seven when Tempest fired its magnetic weapon (not gravity one), station redirected and strengthen the blast into all the gates. The same happen with GRB. I figured that protobuilders did know what triggered the unknown aggressors reaction (the energy surges in the ring system), they also did know that their manifestation in our universe triggers creation of virtual particles (the anomaly with virtual particles was discovered in the third book already but we didn't known then it could be related to unknown aggressors instead we thought its byproduct of the ring system). Those particles were the very thing that pushed the Tecoma neutron star into collapse. You may ask if it was their work why they didn't use it. It is possible that this weapon/trap wasn't ready in the time of a war because it could took millenias of even millions of years to created such trap.
Or even if it was ready by then the protobuilders may have decided not to use it to escalate the conflict. Adro diamond structure may be the way they actually survived the war despite protomiller thought differ. Or some part of them anyway.
One other point to prove that Tecoma is protobuilders related and not to unknown aggressors is the fact why to trigger something that hurt themselfs? Tecoma and other actions taken by Laconia were actually the reason for them to openly attack us by the means of shuting our consciousness and when they figured this attack doesn't do the trick then redistributing our atoms which is form of attack they choose not stellar enginering. They have no reason to change this tactic since there is no defence against it.
Also if it was Unknown Aggressors doing it would make no sense to use it as a weapon agains protobuilders, since they could easily shut the Tecoma ring down.
I may be wrong but until the book nine came out this seems more logical to me.
You make some good points. The Tecoma gate was the only one that was positioned over the pole of a star. So it had to be put there by the Builders. So it was a trap, but maybe the builders were killed off before they could use it. It see the next book ending in only two ways. a human scattering or negotiation.
That's a fantastic summary Lukas. I basically came to the same conclusion. I'm quite curious how they will mitigate the threat of the unknown aggressors. Like you, I don't believe negotiation is an option. They are so far advanced relative to humans it would be like us negotiating with an ant to not build their ant hill too close to our house. I am guessing you are right in that they will need to shut down the ring system itself for the time being. Even if that means stranding humans at the various worlds.
If I remember correctly, Elvi thought it might be a trap.
Dunno if you already read book 9 or not, so I'll just say "Holy shit dude"
Pretty sure the “lost time incidents” didn’t stop during the time skip. Ships also continued to disappear sometimes. Goths also changed the way they affect consciousness in their attack in TW. They’re trying different ways to wipe out humanity since what worked on the gate builders doesn’t work on people.
My guess is it has a lot to do with having a physical body. Miller touches on it in book 3 and it’s brought up again later.
Yea I think that they were able to kill off the gate builders because they were a species with one consciousness. Which is why it has failed with humans. I also don't think that the gate builders are completely gone.
@@MadFabe I think the Gate Builders collective conscience are stored in the BFE. There could be a chance you could revive them once it was found again
@@boorendorff3655 Yeah, That could a way to bring the series back if they want.
We now know..
Heavy spoilers below:
AB (Ancient Builders) come into existence billions of years ago. They begin to think themselves into consciousness, evolve, and are a hive mind species existing on the quantum level.
AB evolves to the point that their technology is God-tier but physical forms are still weak at the smallest level.
To counter it, they build the proto molecule to aid/interface with to build physical structures.
They span the Galaxy and to compensate for vast distances (and other things) decide to build the ring system.
In order to power this monstrosity of a project, they decide to crack a fucking hole into another dimension/universe and syphon the energy from there.
This is where the slow zone and the station within it comes into play.
The slow zone is the hole into the other dimension with the outer blackness being the part where "The UA's (Unknown Aggressors)" Lurk, along with the rest of their universe.
The Station in the slow zone is somehow stealing that energy.
The slow zone is protected like a bubble. When ships go Dutch passing through ring gates, they end up going into that darkness on the other side instead..
This in turn ends up hurting/killing the extradimensional beings in that universe, The UA's.
That is a no-no.
The UA's retaliate by somehow blowing the AB's weak physical forms to bits easy peasy lemon squeezy until they were all gone.
Then the beautiful idiot species finds remnants of the Proto molecule and it begins..
And one can not blame them. If someone came here and began killing us, even by mistake, we would fight back.
>Evolves
>Gets god technology
>Cracks a hole into another universe and takes all of your energy
>Doesn't elaborate
>Dies
Fuckin chads
So was there a negotiating with them or did the humans stop using the gates?
@@yazanmowed No negotiation. There was no way to do it. Even if they could, it wouldn't matter. Those beings wanted humans dead. Humans did not want to stop and were forced to..
The makers of the Protomolecule were at fault, it was blunt force science that took no concideration of any existing species in whatever systems the protomolecule ended up. Surely it would only take one miscalculation for the protomolecule to wipe out a system where these so-called unknown aggressors had interests? There's always a bigger fish.... so to speak.
You are correct. The builders didn't seem to have programed the protomolecule to check to see if intelligent life existed in the solar system before it got busy. So unless it is an error that got into the programming, they just didn't care.
@Marshall Dre Exactly. That's my hypothesis. I akin it to some assholes speeding down your residential road out of nowhere, EVERY single day at random days. They're just chilling in their universe as pure energy, the space between space or however those Rings work, and a giant ship comes plowing through for a split second. They live in the "universe" that the Slow Zone and station reside in. So whenever a ship is going through a ring, they are basically leaving that "bubble shield" around the slow zone and piercing a ring. Sometimes it appears that the other aliens living outside the Slow Zone bubble shield, can interact with an object also transitioning between them. Think they're basically stealing or siphoning off energy from that other dimension/universe.
Or perhaps when the builders were around they had more control. We know the proto is capable of communicating faster then light. Maybe it went 100% autopilot after they died.
@@MadFabe also the molecule wasn't active until the humans started probing it. Not sure how that fits into the puzzle but it's definitely noteworthy. And perhaps a sign indicating otherwise.
I think the reason all this happened to humans is that there are not a lot of technological civilizations in the galaxy. If there was then in the 2 billion years since the builders died some other species besides humans would have triggered it. So either there isn't a lot of intelligent species out there or the builders protomolecule wipe them all out before they could get started. Remember that was what was planned for Earth and if it had happened the way the builders wanted there would have been no humans. So humans probing the protomolecule was an accident that should not have happened.
WOW, looks like there are enough material to create another 5 TV seasons
nice, thanks for that input
You're welcome.
4:30 the magnetar used electromagnetism not gravity to destroy tyko station.
You're right, my bad it was a magnetic beam that was used to destroy tycho station.
Yes this is the question I have.
Well we will find out in November.
@@MadFabe yep. I will be devouring that book for sure
Great channel you review the best books
Glad you like them!
I wonder if we will ever hear from the people stranded on the other side of tangevar gate? If they survive, it would be interesting to see what happens to them.
I don't think we will. Unless they say something about them in upcoming book. Maybe they will write a sequel series sometime in the future.
Fascinating!
Thanks.
Goof info, thank you
You know it sounds like to the aliens were perfectly fine with humans for 30 years once they started using the rings in a certain way. What some needs is find some way to point out that not all humans want to mess with them.
Yea, we will find out in the last book if the aliens can be reasoned with. I think they can.
Exactly, there's no reason to believe there couldn't be a nagotiated peace
Just finished the TV show, what books should I read next and in what order to continue the story?
I would begin with book 6, because things on the tv show were a little different from the books. The t.v. show took a slightly different path to get to the same conclusions. Example, some characters were killed off in the t.v show that are still alive in the books. But if you don't care, then start with book 7, because the story jumps about 30 years.
@@MadFabe thankyou
Force of habit, I keep referring to these creatures in my head as "The Wormhole Aliens" LoL
I like that. Wormhole Aliens.
@@MadFabe comes from deep space 9.
DS9 was near a stable wormhole, non-corporeal aliens nearby caused it. Every time a ship passes through it caused them slight discomfort but an agreement was reached allowing the wormhole ro be used
You know I totally forgot about DS9. I used to watch it all the time, I have the entire series somewhere. I stopped watching Star Trek half way through the first season of Discovery, watched a few episodes of the second and third season. Didn't like it and stopped. Tried a couple episodes of Picard, didn't like that either.
@@MadFabe Did you try THE ORVILLE?
No I haven't.
I don't read or have the books or know of them till today that checked put recaps of the tv series after watching the end. I hear is another book & then the full set one memoirs with the mini books story of all the books in it so not actual past book on this series by this writer 😆, but actual past books of the story though.
What if the use of their technology alone led to issues with the unknowns living space something that could not be seen or even predicted much like we might not predict that the plants we eat scream in pain as we hatvest and eatthem since we cannot be at their lvl so it was accidental but left the unknowns with no choice but to end it and maybe the unknowns are not even aware of what there doing to us but precieve it as some natural phenomina that they have to stop for their own safty
That would be a possibility except that over the series the UA'a experimented with ways to wipe humans out in different ways, so they were aware of humans. It was also was revealed in the last book that the UA's had succeeded in wiping out all life in one system, but they did not realize it because ships kept coming and leaving the system.
They are the Tindal hound and the gate builders are the grate race
oh boy
GRB
Gamma Ray Burst
?
@@MadFabe
I just wasn’t sure what it stood for & was sharing w others.
I always figured that it was a rogue mutation in their Protomolecule code. A sort of SkyNet situation.
I doubt that a rogue mutation would get in the Protomolecule code. The builders designed it to go out to star systems the slow normal way, then when it got to the destination build a gate. So since they had no way of knowing when it would succeed, they had to build its code very stable with lots of error checking and the ability to fix problems in its code.
@@MadFabe Nothing can go wrong. Go wrong. Go wrong.
@@bobriemersma Yeah. Lol. I guess we will find out in November.
Light jelly fish
basically, yea.
Great video as always, but in book 7 they appeard when the Heart of the Tempest destroyed Pallas station not tycho as i remember , might be confusing as Pallas and tycho merged to be on corp
The Transport Union had joined Pallas Station and Tycho station together to form one big station. So the Tempest destroyed the entire thing.
@@MadFabe are you sure? I think they were still seperated physicly maybe i dont remember well
You're right. I found it, the Transport Union separated them just before the attack, Leaving Pallas to be destroyed. They used Tycho to evacuate people from Pallas.
Is it just me or do they sound like the "good guy" for killing the parasitic Leviathan wiping out life on a galactic scale?
That is a good way to look at it, plus when you look at it a bit closer they are just defending themselves. After all how would you like it if a car appears in your house drives through then disappears?