I read the first three books few years ago, and for some reason I never continued with the series. This video makes me want to board Rocinante again. Thanks 😃
What a great tier list vid! Loved hearing your concise thoughts on each book, and we came down very similarly. Tiamat's Wrath was just a perfect read for me, so that one is also my #1. I might put Leviathan Wakes in the same #2 spot, with possibly the same numbers 3 and 4. My main difference I think would be slotting in Caliban's War at #5 ahead of Nemesis Games, since that book 2 just worked terrifically for me with the new POVs. Abaddon's Gate is probably my bottom one since the new POVs didn't work great for me (which is an understatement for Melba), and then Cibola Burn might be second to last due to not liking Murtry's character and agreeing with you that some of the tripper sci-fi elements introduced in bk 3 didn't get paid off so well. Overall what an engaging and immersive journey it was!
Please like and subscribe. It doesn't cost a thing and takes about two seconds. This channel is growing so help keep the momentum going. Thanks everyone
I'm about 2/3ds of the way through Babylon's Ashes and have been "losing steam" for the series a bit. It's encouraging to hear that books #7 and #8 worked for you!
I haven’t finished the series yet. I enjoyed watching your take on the rankings though. I like this series very much and I was just curious about what someone who had finished the series thought of all the books.
Awesome video Jonathan! I'm in general agreement with your ranking (if Abaddon's Gate and Persepolis Rising were flipped in addition to the two Leviathans). I put out a tier list with the Expanse books, novellas, and short stories yesterday. Check it out if you get a chance and keep up the great work!
@@iWizard Sorry Nikki! I’ve seen Jordan in other places and thought of him when I saw the name iWizard. I’m sure you are the better half of the partnership! (I would say the same for my wife and I haha)
I'll always love Nemesis Games the most. Really intense build up, POVs for the whole crew, and scary implications for the rest of the series. The series' Empire Strikes Back.
@@WordsinTime Have you considered doing a Tier List of the short stories in Memory's Legion? I'm finally getting around to reading them and they're pretty good too.
😲 CW was a 5⭐️ for me! One of my favourite 📺 seasons too. I particularly liked LW, CW and NG. My 4⭐️ reads were CB, PR, and TW. Which means I least liked AG and BA on 3⭐️. So we had some quite different rankings, which is always fun and interesting. I have yet to read book 9, though I just recently picked up the paperback which I hope to get to soon. Your ranking on the left vs my star rating notes so I could try and analyse our differences. It’s been years since I read some of these so I lacked your excellent notes from this episode. 🥇📚⭐️ 2 LW 5 8 CW 5 6 AG 3 7 CB 4 5 NG 5 9 BA 3 3 PR 4 1 TW 4 4 LF ?
I’m glad you enjoyed the video Tufty! It seems like our ratings are somewhat similar except you liked CW and NG a little more. The character development in NG was great!
I totally agree about Tiamat’s Wrath. To me, it’s by far, the best in the series. Great characterization as usual, but man did the story explode. So many grand moments. I’m very neutral on Holden as a character and I actually think this volume works so well because he’s barely in it. Haha After so many books, it’s great that the duo stuck the landing. The ending was very satisfying. Really came full circle.
Haha Holden makes a lot of rash decisions, so it was interesting seeing him in a setting where he had to play the long game. And yes, I agree that things ended up tying together nicely.
Love how each book can work so differently for everyone. Nemesis Games was by far my fave! Though I agree Cibola Burn and Caliban's War were less fun for me.
I agree with your placing of Babylon's Ashes. It almost knocked me out of the series. I'm glad I stuck with it; the final three are also my favorite sub-trilogy of the series.
You can tell this is a good series when everyone's ranking list is completely different lol. The only one I consistently see at the bottom is Cibola Burn, and I can agree. I'd have liked it if the authors cut the length because it was bloating with boring crap. I kind of agree with you on Leviathan Wakes. It felt like they beat the villain too easily, and then the story of the last 100 pages felt like it was ripped right out of Dr. Who/Star Trek who have both done that same concept more than once.
At this point I'm such a fanboy, that putting some books below others is very hard. Though for me the whole Inaros arc was not much fun, I just wanted more high concept sci-fi and less of the genocidal melodrama, so I quite liked the final trilogy.
Great ranking. I agree that the first book set the bar really high for the rest of the series to equal or surpass. Some of those middle books really dawdled in human politics and the series maybe could have benefited from being a leaner 8 books instead of 9. Still an enjoyable series though.
I just read the first book, and it instantly became one of my favorite reads ever. I can't wait to keep reading the rest. Especially since most people I've seen seem to like them all for one reason or another. I've avoided the show so far, so I think I'll wait to watch until after I'm done reading.
For me its 10. Memories Legion 9. Cibola Burn 8. Babylons Ashes 7. Persepolis Rising 6. Leviathan Wakes 5. Callibans War 4. Leviathan Falls 3. Abadons Gate 2. Nemesis Games 1. Tiamats Wrath And the short stories: 8. Gods of risk 7. The sins of our fathers 6. Drive 5. Auberon 4. The butcher of Anderson Station 3. The vital abyss 2. The churn 1. Strange Dogs
This is an excellent ranking. I have a few differences in the middle, but otherwise, my ranking is about the same. (Nemesis Games is a little higher up for me.)
*** SPOILER WARNING*** I actually slightly disagree with this ranking, I think I much preferred Calibans War to Abaddons Gate, for me I just struggled with the logic of some of the plot lines in Abaddons gates and because I didn't like the characters as much I found it a much harder to ignore - Bobbie and Avasarala do wonders for the second book. like after the Roci enters the gate I just couldn't get my head around the logic of every major player in the solar just jumping straight into the gate? like taking the largest and most powerful belter ship the behemoth and risking in multi millions in investment and thousands in crew just didn't make sense to me. at this point we didn't know if entering the gate would make you infected? or if there were alien life forms waiting? or if there was even a way back after entering. like why wouldn't they send a smaller, armed scout ship to go after the Roci. It just brought me out to of the book after reading it tbh, I just really struggled with decision makings of the characters in this book. I've only finished 3 books so far and have been wondering whether it's worth continuing?
I’m glad you enjoyed book 2, Bobbie and Avasarala are great characters. Most people are mixed on book 4 but really enjoy book 5. If I were you I would read those two and then decide whether to continue. For me, book 6 was a step down but books 7, 8, and 9 were great, so if you like book 5 I think it’s worth continuing.
I am struggling to finish Abaddon's Gate. It is not bad, I am just bored with it and the new characters. I definitely liked Calibans War much better. I searched a ranking to see if others were having the same issue. I am not particularly pleased to see you have the next book ranked behind Calibans War. On a good note it seems mostly encouraging from there.
I am halfway through Babylon's Ashes and, yeah, it's a bit of a slog. I keep reading other stuff like Andy Weir's Project Hail Mary so it's not an uninterruped read for me. I will get there. Encouraging to hear that the final three books are some of the best of the entire series. I really liked Caliban's War, though, apparantly more than you did.
I just finished reading Cibola Burn so I'm up to there in the series (I had watched the video series prior). I enjoyed Leviathan Wakes enough to get excited about the book series, liked Caliban's War mainly due to Avasarala and Bobbie, but didn't enjoy Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn as much due to secondary characters that just irritated me. I think both Anna from Abaddon's Gate and Elvi from Cibola Burn were unbelievably turned into superheroes and I didn't buy it for a second. Also, I lean toward the idealistic "Star Trek TOS" depiction of the future so I tend to prefer a more idealistic, positive, evolved depiction of humanity, and both Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn were pretty much the antithesis of that. I would even say that the "bad guys" in both books stretched believability too much for me to stay completely invested in the action.
Well, I guess there wouldn't be much to write about if it was "after that, everything was great and we all got on famously". Star Trek TOS mostly avoided making humans the bad guys, making "the other" the threat in most cases. I know that is unrealistic, but I am so disappointed with how humans behave now (in reality) that I loved the depiction of "evolved" humanity.@@WordsinTime
I've started and stopped Leviathan Falls twice. Something about it is so off putting to me. I can't quite point my finger on it (except for my dislike of the Tanaka character). I should really just power through it.
I'm struggling with abaddon's gate right now, I loved the show (damn you amazon), and want to know how the story ends but James sa Corey is making it difficult with they're sloppy writing
It’s not the most deep writing, but I found it mostly enjoyable. I think if you don’t get into it by the end of book 5 the books just might not work for you.
Yeah I agree, I just finished this book and I really struggled with some of the logic behind the major decisions in this book, and some of the characters fell flat for me. not sure if I should continue with the books
If you switched Babylon's Ashes and Persepolis Rising, and bumped Leviathan Wakes to first then you'd have list. I think you're way too high on Persepolis, it's always my roadblock to rereading the series. I just hate how the entire book takes place on Medina, I find it to be the least exciting setting in the series
Sounds like we were pretty similar overall. I liked Medina as a setting, but if you did not then I can see why you wouldn’t not have enjoyed Persepolis as much as I did.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to Get a Developer Job - Even in This Economy [Full Course]](/img/n.gif)
Great video Jonathan. This series is now on my radar. Thanks for all the great suggestions.
Thanks Dale, I hope you enjoy The Expanse!
I read the first three books few years ago, and for some reason I never continued with the series. This video makes me want to board Rocinante again. Thanks 😃
Nice Bart! If you pick it back up again I hope you enjoy the journey!
What a great tier list vid! Loved hearing your concise thoughts on each book, and we came down very similarly. Tiamat's Wrath was just a perfect read for me, so that one is also my #1. I might put Leviathan Wakes in the same #2 spot, with possibly the same numbers 3 and 4. My main difference I think would be slotting in Caliban's War at #5 ahead of Nemesis Games, since that book 2 just worked terrifically for me with the new POVs. Abaddon's Gate is probably my bottom one since the new POVs didn't work great for me (which is an understatement for Melba), and then Cibola Burn might be second to last due to not liking Murtry's character and agreeing with you that some of the tripper sci-fi elements introduced in bk 3 didn't get paid off so well.
Overall what an engaging and immersive journey it was!
Thanks Benghis! I’m glad you similarly enjoyed the series!
Please like and subscribe. It doesn't cost a thing and takes about two seconds. This channel is growing so help keep the momentum going. Thanks everyone
Cheers Dale! 🚀
Nemesis games is my top one, but I haven't bucked up the courage to read the final book because book 8 wrecked my emotions
Book 8 hit hard!
I agree, Tiamat's Wrath is the best, followed by Leviathan Wakes. But I haven't read Leviathan Falls yet.
TW is awesome! I hope you enjoy the ending!
I'm about 2/3ds of the way through Babylon's Ashes and have been "losing steam" for the series a bit. It's encouraging to hear that books #7 and #8 worked for you!
The final 3 books were my favourite of the 3 sub-trilogies. I hope you enjoy it!
I recently started the expanse series and I'm really enjoying the first book! Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Awesome, I’m glad you’re enjoying it!
I haven’t finished the series yet. I enjoyed watching your take on the rankings though. I like this series very much and I was just curious about what someone who had finished the series thought of all the books.
I’m glad you enjoyed it, and welcome to the channel! I hope you like the rest of the series!
Awesome video Jonathan! I'm in general agreement with your ranking (if Abaddon's Gate and Persepolis Rising were flipped in addition to the two Leviathans). I put out a tier list with the Expanse books, novellas, and short stories yesterday. Check it out if you get a chance and keep up the great work!
Thanks! I’m glad you similarly enjoyed the series. I’ll have you check out your tier list!
@@WordsinTime I definitely should've signed my name on that one since Jordan does make most of the videos. --Nikki :)
@@iWizard Sorry Nikki! I’ve seen Jordan in other places and thought of him when I saw the name iWizard. I’m sure you are the better half of the partnership! (I would say the same for my wife and I haha)
I'll always love Nemesis Games the most. Really intense build up, POVs for the whole crew, and scary implications for the rest of the series. The series' Empire Strikes Back.
Nemesis Games is a fan favourite. It made me fall in love with the characters!
@@WordsinTime Have you considered doing a Tier List of the short stories in Memory's Legion? I'm finally getting around to reading them and they're pretty good too.
@@DylanHunter64 I haven’t read them yet, but I’m glad you’re enjoying them!
😲 CW was a 5⭐️ for me! One of my favourite 📺 seasons too. I particularly liked LW, CW and NG. My 4⭐️ reads were CB, PR, and TW. Which means I least liked AG and BA on 3⭐️. So we had some quite different rankings, which is always fun and interesting. I have yet to read book 9, though I just recently picked up the paperback which I hope to get to soon.
Your ranking on the left vs my star rating notes so I could try and analyse our differences. It’s been years since I read some of these so I lacked your excellent notes from this episode.
🥇📚⭐️
2 LW 5
8 CW 5
6 AG 3
7 CB 4
5 NG 5
9 BA 3
3 PR 4
1 TW 4
4 LF ?
I’m glad you enjoyed the video Tufty! It seems like our ratings are somewhat similar except you liked CW and NG a little more. The character development in NG was great!
I have only just started reading these books after my daughter bought me Leviathan Wakes for my birthday. I am enjoying it so far.
That’s a great present from a great daughter, Ralph! I hope you enjoy the series!
I totally agree about Tiamat’s Wrath. To me, it’s by far, the best in the series. Great characterization as usual, but man did the story explode. So many grand moments. I’m very neutral on Holden as a character and I actually think this volume works so well because he’s barely in it. Haha
After so many books, it’s great that the duo stuck the landing. The ending was very satisfying. Really came full circle.
Haha Holden makes a lot of rash decisions, so it was interesting seeing him in a setting where he had to play the long game. And yes, I agree that things ended up tying together nicely.
Love how each book can work so differently for everyone. Nemesis Games was by far my fave! Though I agree Cibola Burn and Caliban's War were less fun for me.
The character development in Nemesis Games was fantastic!
I agree with your placing of Babylon's Ashes. It almost knocked me out of the series. I'm glad I stuck with it; the final three are also my favorite sub-trilogy of the series.
Me too! I’m glad the series really picked up again with the final 3 books!
You can tell this is a good series when everyone's ranking list is completely different lol. The only one I consistently see at the bottom is Cibola Burn, and I can agree. I'd have liked it if the authors cut the length because it was bloating with boring crap.
I kind of agree with you on Leviathan Wakes. It felt like they beat the villain too easily, and then the story of the last 100 pages felt like it was ripped right out of Dr. Who/Star Trek who have both done that same concept more than once.
Haha yes there’s 1 or 2 that seem fairly consistently high or low and then the rest seem to vary a lot between every reader!
At this point I'm such a fanboy, that putting some books below others is very hard. Though for me the whole Inaros arc was not much fun, I just wanted more high concept sci-fi and less of the genocidal melodrama, so I quite liked the final trilogy.
I’m glad you liked the last 3 books as well!
Can you do a spoiler-full version of this video?
That’s a good question. I typically don’t do spoiler videos as they can only be watched by a small percentage of my subscribers.
Great ranking. I agree that the first book set the bar really high for the rest of the series to equal or surpass. Some of those middle books really dawdled in human politics and the series maybe could have benefited from being a leaner 8 books instead of 9. Still an enjoyable series though.
Thanks! That’s an interesting suggestion, I wonder how the series would have changed if it was trimmed a little.
I just read the first book, and it instantly became one of my favorite reads ever. I can't wait to keep reading the rest. Especially since most people I've seen seem to like them all for one reason or another.
I've avoided the show so far, so I think I'll wait to watch until after I'm done reading.
That’s great! I hope you enjoy the series. I haven’t watched the show but I’ve heard good things.
I'm currently reading it and it's quickly becoming my favourite sci-fi I've ever read
For me its
10. Memories Legion
9. Cibola Burn
8. Babylons Ashes
7. Persepolis Rising
6. Leviathan Wakes
5. Callibans War
4. Leviathan Falls
3. Abadons Gate
2. Nemesis Games
1. Tiamats Wrath
And the short stories:
8. Gods of risk
7. The sins of our fathers
6. Drive
5. Auberon
4. The butcher of Anderson Station
3. The vital abyss
2. The churn
1. Strange Dogs
@@herbertschulz4313 I’m glad you also enjoyed Tiamat’s Wrath!
Its weird how similar yet different our rankings are! Glad we agree that Tiamat and Wakes are top-tier material.
@@x_krow Haha, yes they’re great!
I've read the entire collection twice, and I'm probably gonna read it again, it's so good 👏
I’m glad you loved it!
This is an excellent ranking. I have a few differences in the middle, but otherwise, my ranking is about the same. (Nemesis Games is a little higher up for me.)
Cheers Jacob! I can see why Nemesis Games is high for a lot of people. I really connected with the characters in that one.
@Words in Time I do have to say, for the first half of your list I felt like you were reading my brain.
My personal top 3 are:
3. Abaddon's Gate
2. Nemesis Games
1. Tiamat's Wrath
Nice picks!
*** SPOILER WARNING***
I actually slightly disagree with this ranking, I think I much preferred Calibans War to Abaddons Gate, for me I just struggled with the logic of some of the plot lines in Abaddons gates and because I didn't like the characters as much I found it a much harder to ignore - Bobbie and Avasarala do wonders for the second book. like after the Roci enters the gate I just couldn't get my head around the logic of every major player in the solar just jumping straight into the gate? like taking the largest and most powerful belter ship the behemoth and risking in multi millions in investment and thousands in crew just didn't make sense to me. at this point we didn't know if entering the gate would make you infected? or if there were alien life forms waiting? or if there was even a way back after entering. like why wouldn't they send a smaller, armed scout ship to go after the Roci. It just brought me out to of the book after reading it tbh, I just really struggled with decision makings of the characters in this book.
I've only finished 3 books so far and have been wondering whether it's worth continuing?
I’m glad you enjoyed book 2, Bobbie and Avasarala are great characters. Most people are mixed on book 4 but really enjoy book 5. If I were you I would read those two and then decide whether to continue. For me, book 6 was a step down but books 7, 8, and 9 were great, so if you like book 5 I think it’s worth continuing.
I am struggling to finish Abaddon's Gate. It is not bad, I am just bored with it and the new characters. I definitely liked Calibans War much better. I searched a ranking to see if others were having the same issue. I am not particularly pleased to see you have the next book ranked behind Calibans War. On a good note it seems mostly encouraging from there.
The first six books bounded back and forth between 3 and 4 stars for me, but I really liked the final three books.
@@WordsinTime I am looking forward to reading the whole series at this point despite a little hangup with this book. Thanks for the encouraging word.
Babylon's Ashes was also my least favorite, and Tiamat's Wrath was my favorite! My second favorite was Nemesis Games though.
Looks like we had fairly similar reactions! The character development in Nemesis Games was excellent!
I am halfway through Babylon's Ashes and, yeah, it's a bit of a slog. I keep reading other stuff like Andy Weir's Project Hail Mary so it's not an uninterruped read for me. I will get there. Encouraging to hear that the final three books are some of the best of the entire series. I really liked Caliban's War, though, apparantly more than you did.
Project Hail Mary is awesome haha. I hope you enjoy the last 3 books as much as I did!
I just finished reading Cibola Burn so I'm up to there in the series (I had watched the video series prior). I enjoyed Leviathan Wakes enough to get excited about the book series, liked Caliban's War mainly due to Avasarala and Bobbie, but didn't enjoy Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn as much due to secondary characters that just irritated me. I think both Anna from Abaddon's Gate and Elvi from Cibola Burn were unbelievably turned into superheroes and I didn't buy it for a second.
Also, I lean toward the idealistic "Star Trek TOS" depiction of the future so I tend to prefer a more idealistic, positive, evolved depiction of humanity, and both Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn were pretty much the antithesis of that. I would even say that the "bad guys" in both books stretched believability too much for me to stay completely invested in the action.
The series goes further in that direction but I think it’s executed better so you may or may not enjoy the rest of the series.
Well, I guess there wouldn't be much to write about if it was "after that, everything was great and we all got on famously".
Star Trek TOS mostly avoided making humans the bad guys, making "the other" the threat in most cases. I know that is unrealistic, but I am so disappointed with how humans behave now (in reality) that I loved the depiction of "evolved" humanity.@@WordsinTime
I've started and stopped Leviathan Falls twice. Something about it is so off putting to me. I can't quite point my finger on it (except for my dislike of the Tanaka character). I should really just power through it.
It does feel a bit different from the other books. Hopefully you find it worth it if you power through.
I'm struggling with abaddon's gate right now, I loved the show (damn you amazon), and want to know how the story ends but James sa Corey is making it difficult with they're sloppy writing
It’s not the most deep writing, but I found it mostly enjoyable. I think if you don’t get into it by the end of book 5 the books just might not work for you.
@@WordsinTime I'm a completionist knowing that Leviathan Falls was near the top of your list give me hope it has at least a satisfying ending
Yeah I agree, I just finished this book and I really struggled with some of the logic behind the major decisions in this book, and some of the characters fell flat for me. not sure if I should continue with the books
@@kathrynsanimations6629 Stop now it only gets worst, it's my biggest regret of 2023
Can anyone tell me at which point the web series left off. Like at which book
I haven’t watched the TV show but I believe it tells the story of the first 6 books.
@@WordsinTime thanks mate
For me Abbadon's gate was the worst, it almost made me drop the series, then nemesis games came to the rescue.
Nemesis Games hooked me as well!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought Babylon's Ashes was the weakest!
Luckily I enjoyed the last 3 books a lot more!
👍👍👍
Thanks khomo!
I saw the Expanse TV series should I read the books as I grew dislike the last few seasons of that show
I haven’t watched the show, but I think it’s worth trying the books.
If you switched Babylon's Ashes and Persepolis Rising, and bumped Leviathan Wakes to first then you'd have list. I think you're way too high on Persepolis, it's always my roadblock to rereading the series. I just hate how the entire book takes place on Medina, I find it to be the least exciting setting in the series
Sounds like we were pretty similar overall. I liked Medina as a setting, but if you did not then I can see why you wouldn’t not have enjoyed Persepolis as much as I did.