Are smaller two strokes good for hard enduro?︱Cross Training Enduro shorty
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- www.crosstrainingenduro.com Are smaller two strokes good for hard enduro? A very interesting ride! Our group was at the bottom of this hill, wondering if we should find any easier track. Then Scott rode his KTM 200EXC up this difficult track with few problems. How embarrassing for us on the 250 and 300 two-strokes. Occasionally viewers ask if small two-strokes are good for hard enduro? (Small = 125, 150 or 200 dirt bike) Into enduro riding? See all our dirt bike videos for dirt riding tips. Our channel now had hundreds of dirt bike videos covering reviews, and enduro riding techniques, even for 150 enduro bikes or 200 dirt bikes. Search our channel for dirt riding gear too. Our dirt riding tips also include wider topics such as the best dirt riding boots. Generally the answer is no for a 125 dirt bike. The 300cc two-stroke is the most popular motorbike for hard enduros for various reasons. It has the most torque at low revs so it's harder to stall. It takes less energy and clutch technique in gnarly terrain. It has the best power-to-weight ratio. It will generally be the most reliable engine. But! As always, it is 80% the rider, 20% the bike for the 150 dirt bike or 200 enduro bike. A good rider on a small two-stroke can still ride very competitively in a hard enduro. Shane Watts proved this many years ago by winning the world enduro championship on a 125 dirt bike.The one two fives. Rev to the moon and back. But don't expect grunt. Do you want a bit more grunt for extreme enduro? Try the 150 class, courtesy of Husk Varna and TM. Less revs and more grunt. The 200 strokes from Beta and Gas Gas. Yeah baby. Let's look at some possible reasons for riding hard enduro on a small two-stroke. I have ridden with a Canadian who loves riding hard enduro on a 125. It needs a lot of revs and careful clutch work but he loved the challenge. Scott bought the 200EXC for similar reasons and extreme enduro. He downsized from a 300 to work on his clutch and throttle control. Yes, the 200 engine stalls much easier. But this provides opportunities to develop his skills. If you do a lot of lifting in difficult terrain, these motorbikes are several kilograms lighter than the 300s. But remember in most cases the seat height is the same as the 300 models. Lighter? Yes. Lower? No. The exhaust pipes are much smaller so they are less likely to be damaged. The 250 and 300 exhaust pipes hang low and are quite wide. We gumby riders either damage the exhaust pipes frequently, or need big heavy guards. The price of smaller two-strokes is always a lot cheaper than their big brothers. Yes, you will need to rebuild engines and replace clutch plates more often, but they will still be cheaper over several years. Some riders love the smaller two strokes because you have to rev them more. In my experience, this tends to be middle-aged riders who raced in the past. They still like the thrill of high revs, but want to ride at a safe pace. You might find the smaller two-strokes give you that 'buzz' with less risk. And finally, if you are very light then the lack of 'grunt' might not be so important. I have ridden a 125 and needed a lot of revs to move my heavy carcass! But look at Ina Coleman. She has downsized to the Sherco 125SE and loves it. With her light body weight, she can easy lift the front wheel without needing maximum revs. Ina has been on the hard enduro podium in the women's class often with this 125. Have you ridden the smaller two-strokes? What were your impressions? I'm keen to hear your opinions, especially if you ride difficult terrain.
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I went from a ktm 300 tpi to the new Beta 200rr racing. I compete in hard enduro and my first event i was 8th place out of about 70 People and only about 30 finished the race. Im 94 kg heavy 😅 Best thing ive done was going to a 200cc. Feels like a mountainbike in the more hard stuff 😍
I’m Im liking my 200 rr too. I love my 300 race as well. The 200 is fun!! Im at 225 lbs
I am riding a KTM 200 since 2015 and ride difficult technical terrain mostly. I've tried several 250 and 300 models during the time but I never felt a need to go for the bigger displacement. Often I think the bigger bikes wear you out much faster and you start making mistakes ect.
And if you cut down the head a little on the 200 a lot of grunt is gained.
For me as an old and mediocre rider I think it is the most fun and also the displacement I feel very much in control of.
Also most important:
You can always say it's just a 200 😂
I ride hard Enduro in northern Maine on a Kx100 and I'm 41 yrs old and 175lbs and I love it keeps me sharp. Just helps being short
Jordan Ashburn 11th overall in the 2020 Kenda Tennessee Knockout on a stock KDX !!!
Anytime anyone tells me a 200 is no good i like to bring up Jordan's phenomenal effort ...
My 200 is best bike I Eva had a I show big bikes wats up
@@bypcustommotorised6347 ...haha yeah I smoke lots of bikes too, on my 2001 KTM 200sx.. its a beast..
I can confirm my new 2023 Beta rr200 Racing is more than capable. Its a beast for hard enduro!
I just got home from putting a couple hours on a KDX200 and am watching this in the shower to report to you with the upmost confidence that it may be one of the most fun bikes you could ride I mean ride it like it’s a 125 everywhere and still got a lot of grunt .. for 200ccs
For everyday enduro riding? I completely agree, Travis. I'd probably buy a RR200 next if I lost interest in the hard enduro stuff.
I have a 2023 Husky te 150i. Its an absolute woods weapon. There hasn't been much that i thought i needed more power. Maybe big long steep hilclimbs are a bit of a challenge, but it still gets the job done so far.
I love the nimbleness and easy to use power of a 200, I'm in the process of putting a dt230 motor into a yz frame, can't wait to get it together.
Sweet!
Hard endeavor! Need frame mounts and customizations.
Best of luck with it all Ron!
♥
I went from 250 exc-f '06 > 250 exc '08 > gasgas 300 ec '08 > husaberg 450 Fe '10
And now I have a beta RR 200 '19. In hindsight I had the most fun with the beta and the 250 foustroke. But I have to sadly admit that we don't really have gnarly terrain in northern Germany 😶
Yeah lm riding a 2019 sherco 125 and it's taken me just over a hundred hrs of enduro/hard enduro to get the bike set up and to relearn skills l had forgotten after riding 300 2t's for many years and yes you are correct about better techniques and precise control and line selection you also need to attack big and technical hills like there's no tomorrow
Set up includes bar mounts , pegs , lowering link , lowered seat , lowered subframe , mountain goat gearing , jetting and a slight swingarm mod to get the axel as far back as possible (1480 wb) .
other mods may include lighting flywheel , barrel port work and if the budget would allow maybe some titanium bits for further weight reduction these mod are only unnecessary if you can't afford them
I've ridden KDX 200/220's for years in some pretty nasty stuff, and they're even heavier than most modern 250/300 2T's, but I never felt I needed more power.
Love those. They were head of the class in their day and still a great simple cheap bike that’ll lug.
Had a 97” kdx220R and it was great until you start getting fast and it just starts to feel outdated. Had a Scott’s damper and a revalve and it was a great trail bike. 👍🏻
I will be trying the new 2023 yz125x that I just bought. After taking my ktm530exc off road for a season I was ready to just go as light as possible. I decided I don’t need to ride on the road anymore and I know I would really have more fun on a small off road bike. I am 5’10” and 150 lbs riding in Squamish Canada, and my thought for a small guy like me, is I probably only need half of what the marketing teams are telling everyone they need. After wrestling through trails with the grizzly 530, I figured there’s just no way a 300 or even 250 isn’t also going to be just as overkill as the 530 was. 500’s were light for Supermoto, but not so much for tight trails!
I ride a 2010 gas gas 200 that I absolutely love. I ride hard enduro and sometimes it’s really slippery. The lack of power makes the bike catch traction and lug up a hill rather than spinning. It takes some getting used to riding one, but I prefer mine over my brothers 2009 ktm 300 for many situations. I weigh 160lbs and it’s the perfect amount of power for me. I rarely stall it and don’t use the clutch very much more than I would on a 300.
+1 for the GasGas 200! I have two '07's and they're awesome. I'm very light (135-140lbs) and the big bores just dig holes with me on them 😅
Went from Beta 300 (still have it) to 2023 Beta 200RR RE. I think it fits my riding style better than the lazy boy 300. Sure, it lacks some of the bottom end of the 300's, but not by much. It will only make you a better rider, plus it's a blast!
Great to hear!
30hrs Update, love the bike. I race and trail ride it. No complaints
I only have the Yamaha DT125. Feels underpowered in some places but very light to lift. I don't worry dropping it at all.
Great review, I think the Beta 2T range are about 30 mm lower than the KTM in stock trim, this with a lowered seat (20mm) this is a huge advantage for the shorter, lighter rider when the tracks get gnarly. Not sure if they wear you out less than a 300 though ???
Acceleration is less abrupt so should be less tiring on forearms
The sweet spot for me is an elderly ktm 200 with a flywheel weight- way more bottom end, way more grip, still small light and flickable.
Love my 200 KTM. It’s like the Goldilocks of off road bikes.
125's are an athletic mans bike. My YZ125x is very rewarding when you put the work in, and absolutely an amazing bike.
Yeah, but the problem with athletic men is that they can't reach hidden objects on top of the refrigerator or access the cookies in the cupboard.
I have been riding a 2013 KTM XC-W 200 on the West Coast of Canada for the last few seasons and absolutely love it. The nimble feel of the smaller bore makes it seriously fun on single track and I'm often faster than friends who race their 300s. The free revving engine makes you feel like a hero when you're ringing it's neck but the limited peak power means it rarely bites you in the ass if you're not paying attention. Ultimately I'm looking to upgrade to a 300 though as I spend more and more time in the steep technical terrain that we have here. The lower weight of the 200 is nice given that I'm a smaller rider and the smaller power window has improved my clutch and throttle control significantly but the bike stalls easily and I often find myself having to zap up tricky terrain when the 300s can just lug (great for developing skills but tiring during long rides). Steep hill climbs also pose a challenge as it will flame out unless you keep it fully pinned, spinning the rear wheel and destroying the track. I've thoroughly enjoyed owning this bike and don't think you could find better for developing your power modulation skills but as I progress the low end lug of the 300s is calling me. If I didn't spend so much time in steep terrain I would be keeping the 200 indefinitely - I can't think of a better single track trail machine.
Great assessment, Tom. That's exactly how Scott feels about his 200EXC in this vid. He bought it to improve his clutch skills. He's now on a RR300 but is keeping the KTM for life and still brings it out occasionally.
@@crosstrainingenduro Funny, the 300RR is at the top of my list due to the low seat height and lower weight than the Sherco.
It would probably be my pick next time, Tom... for similar reasons. My brother and I were very tempted but there was the ongoing main bearing failure problem and Beta not seeming to be able to fix it. It seems they have in the past two years.
Rode grindingstone hard enduro on a 14’ ktm 200XCW. My 300 tpi sits in the garage these days…. I love the power the 200 makes. It’s lighter and it just takes a little time and cash to get it where it needs to be for hard enduro. Most important mods:
- Steahly flywheel weight
- Fmf gnarly
- Fmf 2.0 exhaust
- Gearing change to 13/50
- jetting change to N1EI 2nd clip/150main/40 pilot (works great anywhere from 0k to 7k so far with tweaks)
All other hard enduro protection is available by BP designs etc. can’t say how much I love this bike…. My favorite ever. Having less centrifugal force in the 200 doesn’t wear me out as much as my 300 especially for long days or races. Picking it up is much easier of course. Working on it is dreamy. Simple and clean design when ktm was less farkle and carburetors were their standard. Kehin carb on it is excellent and stock. Having a kickstart is important to me and all of the 13’-16’ 200’s have them along with the magic button. I ride primarily hard enduro and trials on the thing….you get used to the power band and what gear to be in and it’s a weapon…. Double blips huge rocks like nothin… in love with it. Would never trade it over a 300. Be nice to try the beta 200 as it sits in the 125 frame still. On ktm it went to a 300 frame when they added the button on 13’ but still feels manageable as f. I’m 5’11 and 160lbs for anyone wondering. Keep up the great content guys. Always love this channel.
That's a good point about working on older bikes is often so easy.... lots of room to get your hands in around the engine. I miss that.
KTM 200 went to the bigger frame in 2008 2007 was the last year for the smaller frames...
@@johnkerr46 I stand corrected……
If I remember rightly the earlier 200 used the 125 frame which made it quite a bit lighter. Then the full sized frame made it weigh almost the same as the 250 and 300 model.
I have (2), 2006 KTM 200's,XCW & XC, I'm going to be doing some work and switching the engine because one's got a fully rebuilt engine from the crank up, and the other one has a road legal title. then be selling one of them, but I also have a 2009 KTM 200 XCW, and there isn't much difference, in the height of the seat, the weight, or the way they handle, they are all great bikes, Getting the suspension set up is the trick, and then working on the motors to your liking. I have rode alot of the newer KTMs 300, 350, 500, and the 200, Cuts through the woods better, even my friend's 300 XCW that I rode, he rode my bike and he even said the 200 Went through the tight single track better. I think the 200 is just a small 300 the way that engine works and everything else, it just fits me better I'm about a 175 pounds 511 and it's my go to bike for tight single track, lf i was gonna get a new bike, I'd look at the new Beta 200 😉
No tuve la posibilidad de montar una 2T pequeña.
Y viendo videos como el tuyo me convenzo más que la 300 es mi moto.
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷
Monta el moto que tienes!
Me gustatia visitar Argentina algun dia.
I had a ktm 200exc back in 2007, hands down the best handling bike I'd ridden, it felt like a heavy mountainbike compared to my drz400e now!
Where the smaller CC bikes shine is in single track. Absolute forest weapon! Love my KTM 200, but may spring for a 300 later as I prefer to work less and ride more.
I remember doing time trials of an enduro circuit with different bikes and did best by far on a Beta RR125, despite having trouble keeping it in the powerband. It was like throwing a bicycle around lol.
I look at these videos and question the fun of it all.
I question it even more when I'm doing it.
I love a two smoker! The most capable billy goat bikes have always been smallish for me.
Although I would probably not buy one (mostly because I have a dualsport), the yz 125x appeal to me SO MUCH
There is something that makes me smile when I think of a bike with about the same weight as me (with my gear) that can handle fast hard terrain with ease (unlike hybrid)
I've ridden my friends yz125x. She weighs 120lbs and loves it. I weigh about 210lbs on any given day closer to 230 with all my gear and the 125 just doesn't have the grunt I need to pop over obstacles. It is still a lot of fun though.
nice riding on the 200!
so over the years i’ve owned many many different bikes, now i own the same bike as in this video, the 200exc and yes it’s not perfect but it’s probably the most “overall” capable bike i’ve ever owned when it comes to hard hill climbs and low weight. i’ve done a top end rebuild on it twice at the specified 70 hour intervals and it’s only $350 for a top end, so it’s a good reliable cheap runner
i have owned a 300exc once and aside from straight line performance i find the 200 better in most other categories
A few months ago now , I watched Johnny Walker racing a Beta 200 against a field of mainly 300's being ridden by the likes of Billy Bolt etc. Didn't seem to be any kind of disadvantage. My local dealer says they expect to sell about the same number of 200's each year as they have a loyal following. The problem for the weekend rider (which I definitely am) is experiencing all these various bikes so an informed decision can be made , rather than having to go with 'Graham rides a 300, and so will I ' . In trials , it's often said that a 300 is too much bike for most people and a 250 would be better. The counter argument of course is that 'the throttle goes both ways'. On with the practicing !
The pro riders are so good with clutch control that a 200 wouldn't be an impediment, I suspect. Slip the clutch more, use more revs, they have just the same power as a 300 would. But it's just more clutch work. For us everyday gumbies with average clutch skills the 200 could definitely be tougher in gnarly conditions. As usual, a good long test ride on various bikes is the only way to be sure.
Problem with the 250 vs 300 argument is the 300 weighs exactly the same as the same 250 which is tough move to downsize when looking at it like that
I like my new 250 vs the 300..
When I get in trouble and whiskey throttle it I don't end up on the ground.
It doesn't climb quite as well but turns better.
Impeccable timing! I've been riding KTM 200s for years and just added a YZ125X to the fleet. With an Apex head and Lectron Billetron, the 125X has surprising bottom end for a 125. As long as you're moving a bit, it can handle technical terrain as well as the 200. Once you come to a complete stop or need to get started on a slick hill, the lack of torque becomes a problem.
My KTM 200 is a 2004 model though and recently developed some sort of electrial gremlin that the shop can't figure out. They've replaced the ECU, stator and ignition coil and I had the cylinder resleeved as well. I've got so much money into it now that I'm seriously considering just parting it out. I'm looking to replace it with a 250X and mod it for as much low end grunt as possible.
Bummer about the 200EXC. Our friend is keeping his for life, even though he mostly rides a RR300 now. At the very least you should do well parting it out, there are still plenty of 200s out there!
had a 200 EC GasGas from 2000 as my first Hardenduro bike, loved it for being so simple to handle. But - the TE300i Husky is like a tractor - which gives a lot of confidence on uphills. With the EC200 is was so much harder to keep the revs stable in that small window ( the clutch was of course from 2000 too) - not stalling , but also not spinning the real wheel to much to get stuck.
A newer Beta 200 or KTM 150 will be sufficient, but I like the lower rev'in together with the deeper sound of the 300 or a 4 stroke.
I just recieved a pair of Garne SG-22 boots...... my SG-12's feel like concrete space boots in comparison.
I would be interested to see a similar video on small 4 strokes. 250-300-350.
Myself and a couple of friends ride enduro (probably not ‘real’ hard enduro) on 250 4t bikes. I’ve got a wr (shock/horror) and there’s 2 ktm 250 excf’s in our group too.
We find them light-ish (better than a 450) enough power and very easy/forgiving to ride. This helps make up for our lack of skill.
They’re also cheaper as no one wants a 250 4t and often get asked why we’re riding girls bikes.
We didn't cover four strokes as they tend to overheat easily in hard enduro. But for sure most of us would do better for everday riding on a 250. We discussed this in our 'Should I buy a 450?' video.
My experience has been that the 200EXC has plenty low end torque if you are around 160lbs or less ( provided its jetted and setup correctly)
Comparatively, I find the low end torque on a YZ125X almost non existent - though still very fun to ride and noticeably lighter yet.
Back On a newer KTM 250 now, and though I appreciate the extra bottom end I never once felt the 200 lacked power. I only upgraded for the counter balanced engine and newer suspension / geometry
I do wonder what the low end torque of the BRC 500cc kit feels like 😜
I rode an old KX500 once, crazy amounts of grunt lol. It would get to 3500rpm and just start spinning. I saw a dyno chart which showed this is when the power really kicks in.
I demoed a 200 rr in hard terrain and went back to back with my 300. I loved them both so I bought a 200 rr and kept my 300 rr. I figured Id sell what I like less. I like them both.
I wouldn’t go to 150 or 125 for hard enduro. It’s fun but the 200 rr is better.
I'm doing less and less of the nasty terrain nowdays so at some point I'll probably be interested in something like the RR200... or maybe go back to a Xtrainer.
@@crosstrainingenduro what are you doing now? Cross country, trail, single track, hare scramble? I keep going back and forth between beta 300 or 200. Waiting for demo day to make my decision. Ps. Never rode a dirt bike.😅
I had a 1986 IT200 and for
It's size it was a beast. I rode the balls off that bike!! No it wasn't as fast as my pops yammie MX400 but I could keep up in the trails with him
Have 2019 300rr and 200rr. The 300 hasn't been cranked in 2 years. Enough said!
That's bike abuse, Clinton. 😂 Have you arranged some sort of counselling for the 300?
Had 3 Ktm 200’s. A 02”exc I bought new, a 04”sx and a 06” XC. The 02” was my favorite engine, had a v-force and pipe and aftermarket silencer. But the 06” was a better all around bike for me in gnarly woods. Rode 250’s and 300’s and will probably get a beta 200 for my next bike. Have ridden in a couple years due too shoulder injuries But will be getting back into it next spring . Great vids. And great riding 🎉
A friend bought one of the last carb 250EXC models in Australia back in 2019. What an awesome engine. And so light, KTM almost had the bike under 100kg.... 100.2kg from memory. Then the added several kg, unreliability and loss of grunt with the TPI system. 😢 KTM was certainly the leader in two strokes for the years you mention.
@@crosstrainingenduro I’ll most likely end up with a 17”-18” Ktm 250 xcw. As they are a bit hard too find in the US but will definitely be cheaper than a new Beta. I’m sticking with a carb bike.
Honestly? I’m riding my exc 200 I made like 100 hours on that bike, before I had 125, for me the bike is just awesome, feels light and has pretty enough power.
Last month my friend bought brand new husky te250 tbi, and the second one gas gas Ec 300, the 300 is so easy after my 125 and 200 that when I took it from my buddy to see how it rides. Now I know that 200 is just the best bike to learn good technique with your clutch and body balance 😁
I ride a 2013 200 xc-w like the one in the video and have ridden a 2016 yz125 and a 2019 TX150 and the 200 is just on a whole new league. The 150 didn't feel like it had any more torque than the yz in fact it actually felt slower. Although the 200 is also slower that the yz because of its lower revs it Is a literal tractor. It hardly ever stalls and I have yet to make it bog as it has instant power and torque off the crack of the throttle. My dad reckons it would be better for hard enduro than his 2018 300 EXC because despite its engine size it creates similar torque and is lighter.
I bought a beta 200, I don't have the skills to make use of a 300, and the lighter weight and flickability makes up in areas where I lack skills. Lower gearing helps with harder enduro, just gotta change gears more often. Maybe one day I'll be good enough for a 300
I ride a 1992 dt200. It's my daily driver and only means of transport, so a lot of highway miles at 110kph. 1st gear sucks with hwy gearing, so on hillclimbs it often doesnt have the grunt to get up without slipping the heavy af clutch, which is not easy to control when you're tired. It's also stupid heavy, about 115kg. Nice and low and an absolute blast on trails and fire roads, still scary fast and keeps up with 450s.
Original top end lasted 30 years, only needed rebuilding due to user error
Damn, 115kg for a two stroke! Yeah I figure you'd notice that weight when it gets gnarly...
I have been looking at a kdx200 or 220 for hard Enduro I am finding the limit of my drz off-road for my skill I know with hours more practice my drz could do more but I don't always have those hours to have perfect skill
Had a TE150 for 3 months. Couldn't take the gutlessness and sold it. I prefer a 250 4T for the small engine feel. Same peak power, much better at the bottom. But the valves won't last long, if you peg it to 12k all the time. That's why I sold that one, too. 250 2T for the challenge and WFO riding. 450/500 4T for every-day off-road for me.
200 cuts sick on the gnarly stuff had mine for 8 years never wanted a bigger bike. You have to ride it hard to keep up which makes it all the more fun. Of course on wide open tracks you’re disadvantaged but anything else it’s prime. Of course you use the clutch A LOT.
One thing is I wouldn’t go any smaller though a 150 seems like you’re beginning to sacrifice engine size for little gain, with the 125 I wouldn’t bother buying one.
If you’re tossing up buying a small bore enduro bike you can’t go wrong with a 200 IMO.
I've only ridden a 125 once and man it was a lot of work even on a completely flat track. But I can see why they are popular with some riders, you think you are doing a gazillion mph when you keep it in the powerband lol.
I went from a GasGas (Rieju) 300 to a Husqvarna 150 and then back to a GasGas (KTM) 300.
I got the 150 in order to sharpen my skills as a rider. I've ridden it for about 120 hours, including competing in two hard enduros (Battle of the Goats and Fallen Timbers here in the US), as well as bunch of regular enduros. I'm a top-C / mid-to-low B rider for reference.
Here are my experiences -
In general - The 150 is a very confidence inspiring bike to ride and I found myself less scared to try obstacles. It definitely helped me develop shifting skills, throttle control, and using momentum. The power is not very intimidating, so you can twist the throttle all the way without immediately going too fast. I actually don't think that there is a significant difference in clutch work when it comes to actual hard enduro situations as you're going so slow that you need to work the clutch regardless. I don't notice much weight difference between my 22 Husky TE150i and the 23 GasGas EC300 I'm riding now.
In hard enduro situations - A lighter bike is confidence inspiring and easier to drag around. However where the 150 (and other small bores) have a disadvantage in my opinion is in their ability to maintain traction in real hard enduro situations. Specifically long steep climbs, where it's critical to keep the rear wheel from spinning, so you want to keep the engine RPMs relatively low. The 150 has to be on the pipe to climb the really steep grades, so you have to be extremely precise with your body position, line selection, clutch control...etc... great for learning, not great 3 hours into a hard enduro. The small engine also spins up very quickly, so a single rock or a root that briefly kicks it up can send that rear wheel spinning. So can a 150 or 125 do hard enduro - absolutely! But I feel like a 250/300 is the easier bike to ride in those situations, which is why I made the switch back... hard enduro is already hard for me.
In regular enduros - The advantage of a small bore bike is that you can be very aggressive with it with a bit less risk (i.e. less overall speed). I could really hustle my 150 through the woods and pin the throttle coming out of corners. It also teaches you all the body mechanics of shifting gears a lot. On a 300 you have to be a bit more reserved to stay out of trouble. The downside of the 150 is that you have to be aggressive to actually go fast, so it's a more physically demanding (and tiring) bike to ride. So I'm a bit quicker on a 150 in a short/tight woods section for 10 minutes or so, but I'm faster overall on a 300 (or a 350 4T) over a long day.
PS - for reference I'm 175lbs (80kg) with no gear on.
PPS - I don't necessarily think that the 150's and 200's are higher maintenance unless ridden extremely aggressively.
On my TE150i - I did the piston at 100 hours and it looked fine coming out, no different than the 300 pistons in my prior bikes. Still running the factory clutch, which is fine. No other issues, it's been the most reliable and well running bike I've had to date.
I had a 2013 KTM 200 in the past as well, which was similarly reliable. I put 200+ hours on it with only one piston change. I solid it to a friend and think that bike is at over 300 hours currently, still on that second piston. Still on the factory clutch as far as I know.
Good summary, Dimitriy. And I reckon most riders who have tried both would tend to agree. I figure you had pretty good clutch skills? Most of us who try a 200 or smaller keep stalling endlessly in gnarly terrain until we start to make adjustments...
@@crosstrainingenduro I have decent clutch skills. I didn't see a huge difference in stalling between the 150/200 and my 300's.
The TE150i, being TPI, would chug along at crazy low RPMs. If it's really steep it would simply bog and go up very slowly, but not necessarily stall. I think it was actually slightly harder to stall than my new EC300 (also TPI), which feels like it needs a heavier flywheel or an idle adjustment.
Very interesting with the 150 grunting along. We have ridden quite a few TPI 300s and we all notice the lack of grunt. Most of the owners have had the full TSP treatment for about AUD $1000 to try and get similar grunt to the earlier carb models.
@@crosstrainingenduro
Speaking specifically to 150's - A friend of mine has a 2017 TE150 (carb) which I've ridden back to back with my 2022 TE150i. The 2022 model has significantly more bottom and mid range power. I don't think this is as much to do with TPI as with the shape of the pipe and timing of the engine, as they redid all that when the 150's went fuel injected. The older 150's have pipes that look like 125 pipes (long header), while the pipe on the new 150's is shaped more like a 250/300 pipe (short header, large chamber).
Biggest problem i have is foul plugs an to much oil in my mix iv been riding 2504stroks an drz400 an Chinese 125s for years an on a absolute whim I went a bought a kx85 knowing only what the "internet" told me ,an wow its beaten the absolute life out of me ,an omg one word of advice get A PACK OF SPARK PLUGS if your new to 2 strokes nothing is scarier than your 4 to 5 thousand dollar bike dieing 3 feet an five minutes of warming up😅
KDX masterrace!
I'm old, fat, slow, and lazy. May they pry my 300 from my cold dead hands.
Love it 🤣
A member of the NTA? National Two-stroke Association? 😎
I'm with ya brother....
Hear hear
My grandson rides a Beta 125 in enduros. He always wins medals but that small motor sure goes through pistons.
Unfortunately I had to stop riding, for medical reasons. I had a ktm 125exc 2010, then a 200xcw 2012, 200xcw 2014, 200xcw 2016 and finally a 2017 250 xcw. I have to say I had the most fun on the 125/200's
Bummer to hear.
@Cross Training Enduro it's was great while it lasted.
Is the ‘more frequent top end rebuilds’ only a result of more time at high rpm or is there some other reason?
Partly, Dane... but regardless of revs it will be working harder so more wear
I am heavy, old and devoid of skill. I ride a KDX200 (hardly ever). The odds are forever in my favour!
Lean mean and green!
I have a Beta 200rr and I think it’s the ideal bike for most people. Snappy, super quick, and light enough to throw around. Don’t buy with your hormones - buy with your brain
Eventually when I stop the hard enduro stuff I reckon that would be an ideal bike for me
Came off a 250 XC KTM to a Rieju Ranger 200. The lower chassis is a big plus. Motor is sufficient. May do some MR power parts. Can’t forget the magic button for the hard stuff.
Lots of good things about the Rieju but I remember the lack of grunt with the 250 and 300... only compared to modern bikes as the engine design is getting quite old now. Is the 200 similar, Mike?
@@crosstrainingenduro since it’s detuned from the MR it’s hard to say. It seems like a pretty good goat so far. I’ll work some of my carb magic and get back to you.
When I reviewed the older Gas Gas models the dealers said they were very doughy from the factory and carb mods did improve them. But I still remember getting off the 300 to check that it wasn't actually the 250 lol. I actually enjoyed riding it, with my limited skills I was able to go full throttle without launching myself into the trees lol.
@@crosstrainingenduro I picked up a 2002 EC250 years back and was an awesome bike. It’s seem to lack power. Lacked push button starting and had the tendency to die on steep downhills. Never figured it out. Maybe fuel puddling in intake or carb overflowing. New bike runs flawlessly. Maybe a little chubby. Power valve will be played with in addition to carb tweaking.
Went down one size on Main and slow jets. Dropped JN on clip. Runs clean through out the range and reduced spooge at tailpipe. I’m at 1200 feet.
What's this bike at 1:46 ?
The only GASGAS 200 I can think of is the EC 200 but it didn't look at all like that
It’s a 2013-2016 gas gas 200
Yep
When I was motocrossing I could not ride a 125, I'm average build but never felt comfortable having to wring its neck, 250 for me all the way.
Are YOU good enough? It’s good enough!
👍😎
I recently purchased a 2016 KTM 200XCW and love its agility!! I have a Xtrainer 300 and the 200 is better in almost every aspect except low end grunt and stalling at low revs. In the flow….. There’s nothing like it!
Very underrrated category, the 200cc two strokes...
In Pennsylvania hare scramble and endureos 125 are not allowed
Any thoughts on a xtrainer on the hard stuff compared to the smaller two strokes?
We covered that aspect in a vid about the Xtrainer, Trevor. Light (if not lighter, as a 200, but more grunt.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks ! I'll check it out.
A little problem is refuel...
I ride yamaha yz125x in hard trails and i suffer...but there are also disadvantages too😂
So when do tou get to ride the bike. Haven't seen it there
Previous rides, Kym.
Ho una TM EN 125 a carburatore d’accordo con tutto quanto detto.
Ho buttato via il mio vecchio Fantic 300 pesantissimo e con troppa potenza per ridimensionarmi ed imparare la tecnica di guida (almeno questo era l’obbiettivo, purtroppo vado poco).
Mi sarei orientato sulla 144 che ha qualche giro in meno del motore e qualche microgrammo di potenza in più ai bassi regimi ma era introvabile nel mercato dell’usato.
Scelta personalissima ma io peso poco, e se non salgo c’è qualcuno che mi tira su, gli amici servono a questo giusto? ;d
Sempre belli i vostri video!!
😗👍
I ride a 93 kdx 200. Love ir, dont think i use al of its potencial, bit on hard Terrain the e start Is missed
Lean mean and green. Missed a chance to buy a very low hours one from a friend for $3000 a few years ago. 😢
My kid flying on 105 on hard stuff. It's all technicall ability, also small engines rev faster more fun.
I swear by 250s!
best of both worlds!
you people are insane . you wouldnt walk up that hill. I love it.
I just can’t make up my mind, I currently ride a ttr230 but am so ready for the 2 stroke life. The ttr has treated me very well, and I keep up with everyone that I ride with (MR200, WR450, CRF250X). But man it’s a fat pig and I get tired very quickly when doing any kind of enduro riding. My first bike was a yz85 when I was 13. But since then I have only owned 4 strokes, and the biggest bike being a yz250f. I’m 19 now and I have a lot more experiences seat time, but I’m still nervous about getting into a bike like a KTM300. I think I will enjoy the lugability that everyone talks about, but I’m worried it’s still to much bike for me. I’m not afraid of growing into a bike at all, but I definitely don’t want to dive into deep waters without any real experience. Anyones thoughts and opinions would be appreciated!
Usually a test ride is the only way to know for sure, Owen. Even a 200 two stroke is going to have a lot more power than the TTR....
@@crosstrainingenduro I appreciate the comment. My pops owns a jieju 200. And Iv gotten to ride it a few times, it’s never seemed like to much bike for me, so I suppose I’m just wondering how big of a difference the power is between the 200 and 300. That may be a pretty broad question so my apologies. And I will definitely have to see if I can find a way to test ride one, I’m just not exactly sure how or where to do something like that. Love the content btw, always learning new stuff!
Rieju*
Your other option of course is get a 300 and just detune it if it is a handful... then grow into it. Power valve adjustment. Mapping switch if it has one.
@@crosstrainingenduro Or get a Beta Xtrainer and remove the detune later.
My fully built kdx200 is unbeatable in most cases its even not bad at fast stuff ...91 sr 200 vforce 3 skimd head pwk35 air striker jd jetting kit fmf gold fatty and pro circuit turbine core end can wossner forged piston ect ect ....wen dialed tgere hard to beat for there age ...
Lean mean and green!
I’ve found the smaller and lighter the better
My Husqvarna wr125 is so much more fun and manageable than my 250exc. I can ride the 125 all day! The 250 wares me out.
I roll a kx125
small cc on hard enduro? at my 250lb ready tp race weight? no way LOL Recently I found out even 500 exc-f pulls better steep uphills then my sherco 300 se 2t.
A 125 2stroke is more than capable! It's all on the rider knowing how to run it n ride! It's called user error on the rider! I actually prefer the 125 in woods.
i ride a 125 and so did and do many here and as said its 80% rider even somone witha fucking 450exc could not make it up a step asf hill and the 125 did and so did other 300 2t but becaus of the rider
My Dream Bike; They don't/won't make it...
It's a shame (for me) that the big builders won't
build mid sized framed bikes under 90kg / 200lb + - wet, with
a wheel base of 54'' / 1370mm + - , with POWER,
power should be in the range of 25-30 hp +-.
THEY JUST WON'T DO IT. I think there is a market
for that size. I'd prefer 2T , but 4T would be ok too,
with peak hp and torque at the lower end of the rpm range.
The only bike that comes to mind with good power is
the CRF15RB, but that frame is on the too-small side,
with wheelbase of 50'' / 1270mm, with 19/17'' wheels.
Any mid sized framed bike with that 54'' / 1370 + - wheelbase
that I've found and seat height between 35 and 36'' have
been 243+ lbs, with horrible hp, 14 - 17 + - , so not only
way too heavy, but so horribly under powered.
Frame size choices from the Big Builders in the higher
performance category;
58'' / 1472mm , or 50'' 1270mm, that's pretty much it;
''Take it or leave it'' seems to be the moto.
Another option might be a more compact frame but a taller seat on standard models. Then have the lower seat for shorter riders? They'll never do different frame sizes due to the expense, I suspect.
@@crosstrainingenduro
Yes, I agree,
tooling expense, there could
be a myriad of additional reasons,
I just think there would be a sizeable
market for the package that I refer to.
A performance oriented, lighter and
smaller than full framed, just not
the kids bike size, something in between.
GAS GAS TXT Racing 125 or other trial bikes, is`it what you described? Google saying that TXT have 1320mm (52 in) wheelbase. Don't think it have less than 25 hp. PS. Just checked video with dyno stand and TXT 125.... Maybe I was wrong about HP.
@@viko2812 Thanks, my op is not about Trials Bikes.
i ride a 300 4t Sherco in every terrain, im a lighter rider so it has enough power for me
Maybe Toyota's Solid-state Technology R & D can be shared. Move away from lithium.
Looks very promising. If it does work I'd say we might see it in cars within five years hopefully? Then a few more years probably before it appears in motorbikes...
All i ride is a 150 in the gnar. Wears me out less than my 300
Good bike unless ur hitting hill climbs, 300 is way better in hard enduro
@@Wahey_RS I disagree, I can do everything ony 150 that I can do on my 300. Just takes more effort and thought...and we enduro pretty hard.
Several kgs lighter. Is that about 100lbs?
What is 100lbs in kg?
@@crosstrainingenduro must be at least $20
They should do away with electric start. It's cheating. 😉
I don't see the point of riding up this type of "track".
A lot of everyday riders say that about hard enduro, Hugh. Or trials. Speedway. Drag racing... then lots of people say they can't see the point of dirt riding at all. Or even motorbike riding.