2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke Settled ONCE AND FOR ALL!
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
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Let's get real for a few minutes. The 2 stroke vs 4 stroke debate will live on longer than any of us will be alive. We can certainly make arguments one way or the other and we could be right or wrong depending on the situation. One thing that I have definitively been able to prove to myself in the last decade is that I have more fun, with my riding style, when riding the 2 stroke dirt bike. That isn’t to say that the 4 stroke is bad in ANY way. I’m just saying that I ride dirt bikes to have fun. The 2 strokes tend to be a little more fun for me than the 4 strokes with the riding that I do most of the time. Done. You can’t say anything to change that today. That is my reality. Yours may be different and I respect that.
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I ride a 4 stroke but I wear earbuds and listen to 2 stroke sounds so I don’t feel bad about it 😂
haha
🤣🤣🤣
Braaaaaaap
Just get a two stroke lmao, they are cheaper
Come on lol
It's not what you ride, it's that you ride.
What kind of ktm is that your sitting on? I'm looking for the best ktm 2 stroke for trail riding... what do u recommend?
Blondes vs Brunettes, gotta ride em both to have a true appreciation.
No. Brunettes every time.
Damn good analogy
this ^
Don't forget those wild red heads from time to time as well
@@texlee1640 those are the electric bikes
4 stroke: A good single malt scotch
2 stroke: Wild Turkey 101
Yep
I’ll take the 2 stroke and wild turkey
Nothing like a 2 stroke to remind your neighborhood you’re still alive. #2strokesforlife
Ahaha
To be fair, 4 strokes are louder
@@carter.coleman quite the opposite
@@purpteaa3223 no they are significantly louder, 2 strokes is just a more constant noise
@@purpteaa3223 and more high pitched
Just get a 3-stroke mod and have the best of both worlds.
Jackson Buck those are the best man!
Like a rotary powered dirt bike? Where can I get one
Wheels 4 life no. Just change the mapping on your ecu
Rotary motor
a 6 stroke has 2 power strokes. closest thing to 3 stroke.
Gotta have at least 1 of each - that's the secret
I wish I could lol
I want a 4 stroke for everyday easy riding and a 2 stroke for the harder or more intense rides. And run the guts out of it.
If your making the noise of the bike your riding with your mouth while you ride then you know your on the bike for you!
sooooooo true .millenian man
The sound of the 2 stroke is HYPNOTIC! It screams FUN! Music to my ears.
yes
It does sound way better ...4 stroke sounds muffled and blah - to me anyway. Rin rin rin
I feel that 2 strokes are more light, nimble and loose where 4 strokes are tight and heavy but very powerful. A 2 stroke is more fun on a trail for me because it feels free. 4 strokes have engine braking which some people prefer, but doesn't allow you to coast as much and requires partial throttle most of the time. Then most of all, the smell and sound of a 2 stroke is amazing with that big shiny pipe. 4 strokes though, they have presence with a big motor filling the frame and a large slip on pipe. Still, at the end of the day its all about personal preference.
2 strokes are more forgiving when running them over any sort of jump where I find if I'm not perfect with the throttle running a thumper I tend to nose dive.... A lot!!
It's about personal preference, but that's also about maintenance. I'm not afraid of valves, timing and all that stuff. I've figured this out a long time ago. But I often feel chained to my bike with all the maintenance. Why should I spend an hour checking valve clearance when there is a system which doesn't require checking and adjusting valves at all? Why should I spend my time changing oil that often when there is a system where the engine always works on fresh oil? Why should getting to the spark plug be that complex when there is a system where it's within your arm reach? Four strokes are the way to go for serious competition, but for us, hobby riders who don't have a mechanic fixing stuff for them, 2-stroke is the way to go.
@@mansfd I'm glad that someone else experiences that I've just switched to a 450 and unless I'm hard on the gas it nosedives whereas with the 2 banger if I'm tired i can coast and still send it
@@tcmx712 I'm on a 300 XC-W and I will never go back to a thumper!!! :)
@@mansfd i used to have a 300exc before (from Aus) incredibly perfect for single trail and hills where i used to live but now i live in the north west of aus essentially desert riding so I got the 450. Just gotta get used to it haha
If i tell my wife that i want 2 stroke and 4 stroke, ill get 1 stroke .🤣
You should give your wife more strokes than that quick draw! Lol
Loooool
The less strokes the closer the thing is to running on pure explosion, like a rocket the original one strokes engine
BbbRRRRRrrraaaaaappppp
Alex Gray I mean at least we aren’t paying £1,500 for a rebuild or more
Ah yes thee original single stroke engine my favorite
I knew I was in the right place when he said "its a different type of tool"
Key is to have fun
I ride both but I prefer the 2 stroke
@Mike T ?
This one just made me smile. No truer words were said than your bike speaks to your soul😁😁😁
Thank You So Much for finally settling my mind and finally giving me the the motivation to add a 2 stroke to my garage to keep my 4 stroke company. 😜
Right on, Kyle! Having one ( or more!) of each is the best. Figure out what kind of terrain you like best and get the appropriate bike. Select the best tool for the job. For rough country the 2 stroke rules. Look at what the world’s best extreme enduro riders choose. For bigger loops, more open terrain, and faster speeds the 4 strokes rule because of more high speed stability and much longer fuel range. My favorite combo is a 300 2 stroke and a 500 4 stroke. Pretty much covers anything I want to ride.
Thanks for sharing your informed opinions and beautiful riding venues. Cheers!
Love your videos Kyle. Your style of presenting is great. Your perspective is upbeat and fun to listen to. Being a long time dirt bike rider (35 years worth) I love both. I can ride anything with 2 wheels and a motor and have fun. It is my opinion the 4T's excel in the faster terrain, sand, and moto tracks. The 2T's are better in tight twisties and knarly single track (like what you seem to ride the most). Years ago I had a 1998 KTM 380exc. It was great for most any terrain but was the best when I needed to do slow trail work. 4T's flame out easier, overheat easier, feel bigger, and wear you out sooner. However, they bring a big grin to my face when I roll deep into the throttle in open terrain. I can't get enough of the high revs. For that reason I tilt towards the big 4T's. I still run a 2008 KTM 505xcf. Maybe at some time in the future I can buy one of those $9k-$10k tpi 2T's if the wife will let me!! Keep the awesome vids coming!
P.S. Most new riders just need to buy an old good condition Honda XR250 ride it for one full season and then go buy a newer 4T or 2T. Cracks me up when I see newer riders on some tight steep rocky single track trail trying to ride a newer 450 /250 4T motorcross bike wondering what is going on!
2 Strokes for the Dirt
4 Stokes for the Street
2 strokes for both I’m in the Bronx nyc
Great analogy of the differences that I agree with wholeheartedly. I got 2 four strokes in the garage (Yamaha 250 & Beta 450) and 2 two strokes (Beta 300 & TE250i) Life’s short, gotta run with both styles of Bikes for riding in different areas. Great Video!!
My thoughts exactly, gotta have em both!
Love this perspective in the neverending comparison between 2- and 4 stroke :)
4 strokes speak to my soul but I will have both one day...350 and a 300 husky's
I want a 125 2 stroke. But my problem is I just can’t afford a bikw
That was the best 2 stroke vs 4 stroke video i have seen.
I have a craving for the vintage 80s-90s 2 stroke enduros with square lights
All about personal preference really The best bike for you is the one you enjoy riding
You said it perfectly at the beginning . Your comparing DIRT BIKES and the key word is FUN ! It doesn't matter which one you prefer I dare you to NOT have FUN on either one ! Any bike you ride should and will put a smile ear to ear on ya face and that's what matters !!!
Can’t get enough of your channel. Good work
You are totally right. It's all personal preference. For me it's that moment when your 2-stroke hits the power band and just takes off.
Great video Kyle! You can't beat the sounds and smell of a two stroke!!!
Smell, 2 stroke, sound, 4 stroke, better, 2 stroke
Need one of each in CA - 4T for Dez, 2T for mountains. Simple solution
Nice job with the creativity. Keep up the good work and keep throwing in the humor.
Just found your channel and love it and I'm right there with you but I'm older so it's now 4 stroke for me the energy you put into a 2 is what you get out it a more symbiot relationship clutch work throttle work oh so important but satisfying,dont get old 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👍👍👍
4-stroke for the wide open rides and for the times you need a plate to slab it to the next trail head. Two-strokes for those tight technical trails in the woods. You truly need one of each in order to have a tool for all jobs.
My feel exactly ... right on Kyle 🤙🏽
I just about lost it at @6:58 hahaha Preferences to 2 strokes, buti do like some 4 stroke depending on application. Great video again Kyle!
Love the channel keep up the good work
Track - 4Stroke
Trees - 2Stroke
Thank you. It's that simple. I tell everyone that.
But for youth racing 2 strokes take the lead🦶🏼
yes but fuel consumption on 2T is horrible ......
@@JTAvarellowell that’s true because they need smaller, lighter bikes,(like a 50cc) but need the power to race it so a 50 cc bike is great for youngsters
It’s like golf, right club for the task at hand.
Golf course 4 my, now we're talking.
Dont mix golf into this
...got both, but only ride the gg 300 2T lately. 1. It feels lighter and more manageable. 2. The small bore provides good traction, but makes plenty of power when I need it. ...loving it!!! 😍
I Absolutely agree 100% , And thats coming from a two and four stroke owner, I have always defined them as a wild bronco (2 smoke) and an elephant (4 stroke)
Hey Kyle Brotherson PLEASE READ I really like you as a person because you are an inspiration to me and I spend all my time watching your videos because you put a lot of effort into making them I really think that you are a awesome guy. All I want is to have a ktm xc 250 or husky te300i but my mother would never let me ride a motorbike but when I am on my mountain bike I always emagen that it is a ktm xc 250 2stroke screaming down the road I have always liked motorbikes since little and still do especially dirt bikes and adventure bikes. just wanted to let you know that you are doing a great job with making your videos and rideing KEEP IT UP!!! #GREAT CONTENT.
Work hard at school and with your hands. You can get a whatever you want when you make enough money to move out of mom's house.
So fun a and inventive! Great vid! Both are tons of fun!
Great perspective, enjoyed the production. Outside the norm.
Well said. Loving my first 4 stroke!
You had to make a video about it? GOTTA be a 2 stroke! Raaaang tang tang tang - can't beat it. Just the pure rush of the sound of it is reason enough.
2 stroke for the gnar. 4 stroke for a hard dual sport. For me It’s a 500 exc for dual sport and a kdx 200 for gnar. I’m excited for this beta 200 review
I love them both. Anyway you look at it is enjoyment. The only thing missing from your videos now is the big Adventure bikes.
I agree, the correct tool for the job!! I own fourteen two strokes, and ONE four stroke, KLX-450-R the four strokesare heavier, and there nothing like the older ones, like XR's
Would you consider selling one of your 2 strokes. I’ve been saving for years and just can’t find one in my price range. I want a 125 that will last me a few years at least that I don’t have to worry about tearing up 😂. But I don’t want to spend a whole lot. Anyway if you would consider it, please comment
I agree 100%, I own two four strokes and one two stroke and I use them for different types of riding; however, my KX250 is the one that reminds me I'm still alive! That's why I like two strokes the most.
that clip at the end. That was shortly after the top end rebuild where the tolerances weren't right and the engine seized right after you let off wasn't it?? :)
Yes
Great method showing distinction
I ride a 2002 KTM 300 exc. gotta love the power delivery and sound of the 300 2 strokes
Looking good in a tie Kyle.
NC vid. Ty from the Philippines🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭 I ride a 2 stroke also 😊😊
You look good, you feel good. You feel good, you ride good.
I just bought a KX450 just for the sand dunes and I have a TX300 for the trails. Best of both worlds!
3:43 - Kyle can you please ask your friend what does he thinks about the Oneal jersey he wears (ventilation for hot days,fits protection gear underneath, especially elbow guards) for Enduro riding?
4 strokes for the desert, 2 strokes for the hills.
Ding Ding Ding, the correct answer. The right tool for the job. I have one of each. With that said, if I had to have just one. 2T.
Witch one would work best to have a little fun on the road as well?
Kx500 is ultimate desert weapon
@@tobymozer7465 A 4stroke would be best but If you could get away with it in OZ, two stroke, especially one with a counterbalanced motor.
I love my CR500 for desert riding. Big bore 2-strokes rule!
Exactly, when riding a 4 stroke it makes me feel like I am in the "BORED" room! 4 strokes are for when you want predictable, consistent, smooth riding. 2 strokes are for when you want exciting, adrenaline rushing OMG hold on for dear life let's do this till I run out of gas power! I have also ridden both quite a bit and I agree you need one of each to be really happy.
I live in Colorado and ride the mountains. The 2 stroke is more fun for that type of riding cause it's lighter and can lug better down low but don't say a 250 2stroke will pull your arms off more than a 4stroke. I have a 2012 kx450f that I've ridden on the track and mountains and its too much power for most mountain rides where the 2stroke is lighter and quick but not quite as much power. You have to stay in the powerband on the 2stroke to be near what the 4stroke is tractoring to the ground all the time where if you don't modulate the throttle on a 4stroke it'll kick your ass
When I had my 250 2015 Beta I tried KTM 450 from 2009. It was bullshit compared to 2 stroke. My 2 stroke was really snappy.
However since 2012 with EFI KTM's its totally different story. I find 4 stroke faster so far and much better to ride with. I did a lap with KTM 2020 350 4T and then a lap with Beta 300 2 stroke... 4T all the way. Can't tell about tight single tracks..
I really can't find the excitement adrenaline rush in 2 stroke compared to 4 stroke. I want to ride smooth and stable and not to make mistakes. Yeah the noise and torque is nice but it won't make you ride better if it constantly skids around and makes it hard to ride. But thats what I feel like when I ride. I do not have any long experience with 4 stroke yet. Just test rides so far.
I was just having a bit of fun with my reply, like I said I have ridden both. I just prefer 2 strokes but when it is time to rebuild a motor the 2 strokes are less expensive. It really comes down to whatever you are used to riding and if you like it. Who cares what someone else says. Get out and have fun. 2 vs 4 will never be settled in my opinion.
@@bigblock428 Yeah, just ride what you like and have fun.
@@bigblock428 no your right...2strokes are fun and light while my 4stroke is heavier and you can be lazy on it but you open it up and watch out it's holy crap fast. I have a 99 kx250, 03 yz250 and a 18 GasGas xc250 along with my kx450. Obviously I lean towards 2strokes especially when it comes to rebuilds too...gotta have options!
If you ride trails/hard enduro stuff you going to want to ride a 2T
4t bikes and 2t bikes are both awesome. We’re all riders and we should have fun and not argue
There is only one way to solve this debate! Buy both of them, keep both of them, and love both of them :D
I find that long distance and travel is better with a 4 stroke but if you're riding on one track just having fun, 2 stroke all the way
Brilliant mate.
Well done
I love two stroke, but I ride 4 stroke... sometimes in a suit... your suit looked awesome!! Should ride formal like that sometimes, it's great! !
I am about to turn 40 but Man I know the feeling. I can’t stop riding my 96 RM 250. I could definitely go out and buy another bike. But it’s still one of the sweetest bikes I have. now don’t get me wrong I’ve got a lot of money put in it but man I love it. I’ve had it for almost 13 years now. I have a 98 CR 500 and it’s fixed up really nice but I almost never ride it.
I love them both as I own a dr650 witch has been lightened and I have a pe400 witch feels like it has twice the power of the dr650
Dear Kyle, i have to admit that I like your vids. Most worthy!
I agree with all that you say. We all know that most bikes nowadays are worthy and capable but for me it's about longetivity and reliability.
Because i own a 2007 ktm 450exc(which I adore) with 110.000kms on the clock and 2,144hrs with minor repairs.
2ts today have become complicated so someone who's considering on a 2t should think well ,concerning on maintenance!
Two strokes are no more complicated than before really, I mean there is electric start, not that complicated, and fuel injection on select models. Really when you get into fuel Injection is not overly complicate either, and can make owning a two stroke easier for those people who don't like tuning a carb. And with offering from lectron, even carbureted bikes can go with little to no tuning. I can still do a top end rebuild on a modern two stroke easily in my garage with little to no experience and basic knowledge of how the engine works. Just the way I look at it though.
@@jakethelittlesnake6258 Just skip the fuel injection models. The only reason they've appeared is Euro 4 regulation, which is non-sense for motorcycles anyhow, let alone enduro motorcycles. TPI is not beneficial for the rider and no way is it beneficial for the planet.
@@nestserau yeah I agree, I was just pointing out the even fuel injection on a two stroke doesn't make them overly complicated.
@@jakethelittlesnake6258 Maybe while it works, yes. But if it breaks down I've no idea what to do with it. I think TPI kills the whole idea of a 2-stroke, like being repairable by an average Joe on his lap. It's no longer the case.
@@nestserau But what Im saying, unless you have a computer problem, fuel injection is not that hard to work on, its honestly really simple. I will agree adding more computers to something will complicate it but as far as being able to work on the anything else, having fuel injection isnt gonna make anything to much harder. and it still is a simple two stoke, just instead of a carb there is injectors there.
4 stroke my way, but still like the 2 strokes cheaper to maintain and work on. But I can’t let go of my ktm. I’ll add a 2 smoker soon.
I feel like a 4 makes you be a better rider, getting use to the weight of the bike the clutch the power, a 2 you have that gigantic pipe in the front getting smashed every time you lay it down on that side, a 4 you're going to go further on a tank of gas less engine maintenance and it doesn't really cost that much to rebuild as often as you have to do it which depending on how you ride and take care of bike maybe once the whole time you own the bike, of course this is my opinion and I ride a 4 stroke, 2019 yz250fx
Haha love the suit bit LMAO 🤣🤣🤣good video
Nice suit and watch but the shoes dont do it for me. 2 strokes FTW
@@McNamEvan You don't like my 14 year old dress shoes!?
@@DirtBikeChannel haha going through old comments? quarantine must be taking its toll. I'm just busting balls but 14 years is a long time. Polish those old girls and tellem thanks.
I think what your saying is... for the terrain you personally ride and have fun in the 2 stroke fits the bill like most of us off road riders. The 4 stroke is a bit gurthy and extra for tight single track. It has its purpose in flat out open 5th gear terrain, high elevation the big bike suits terrain that needs more power. Here in Colorado when I’m up at 11,000 plus feet I wish I had a tuned up 450 4 stroke because of the power loss and change in elevation (no jetting) in the long run you should own both because you can ride whatever 1 accordingly
Kyle, If you wanted to be able to ride the Barstow to Vegas desert event but also want to ride in Colorado Alpine enduro or Moab, which would you choose? 2 stroke oil injected carbureted or an EFI 4 stroke? All with a Sub 200 pound rider.
Thanks
I have a 2015 Husky FE350 and just picked up a 2020 Beta 200rr. I already have this internal struggle going on about which one to ride. Other people don't seem to get it. It's about picking the right tool for the job. I don't throw out my Crescent wrench because I got a shiny new pair of vise grips
Im Old School, 59..Heros , Roger Decoster Brad Lackey, Tony Dee later Marty Smith. I thought Bob Hannah was a punk...; )... Raced my Brand New 1975 RM250 when I was 15, Its the smell and sound of the two stroke, In my day It was the only ride, Nowadays the stupid fart sound of the 4..Two strokes rule and awaken the senses of what the radical, sick, and twisted minds of Dirt Riders create and express when they are riding.. the power band of the 2 becomes a part of you..I still ride a KX500 but this body cant do it justice anymore...I have fun and thats the bottom line I know the advantages of the big 4s but I just love the smells and sound of my 2... just sayin
Does the bike giveaway apply to America only or can us ozzyz be in on this
Just started riding dirt bikes again. 20 plus years ago road a XR 250 . That was a awesome bike raced some hare scrambles would climb a tree if you could stay on it. I am fixing up a 05 ec 250 gas gas 2 stroke . Seems to be a awesome bike as well. Enjoy the channel. 54 and holding from Tennessee.
Nice suit! It made me laugh.
I've never rode a dirt bike before... but would you say that an inline4 vs v-twin motor a similar comparison in terms of smoothness/jerkiness and low-end/top-end? Or is the 2 stroke that much more power?
So the 2 stroke has what’s called a power band. And it sounds idle until you nudge the throttle and n between gears you hit the power band and get and astronomical amount of acceleration and speed. But the issue is when you hit the power band, it sends a pretty bad vibration through the bike where on a 4 stroke you can barely feel it. You get a lot more top end RPM power on a 4 stroke and the power band will go from low RPMs to really high. You’ll feel like your over revving it but you don’t shift until your not gaining speed very quickly
So funny. A was a four-stroker and now I ride a 300 2t... The truth is that I sometimes miss my 4t and I sometimes don't. So if I could afford it, I'd have both.
Well look at Ronnie Mac has to be a 250cc 2 smoker 1996 😂
LOL great vid!
Following all your vids I saw, I can say: since 3 hours I'm a owner of a new Husqvarna TE250i 2020 ... without kickstarter.... (sorry) ;-)
Great channel! thx,
Xavier / Belgium / Europe
i have both and i ride mostly tight technical trails so i love the 2 smoker for that..if i was riding fast sandy flowing trails the 4 stroke is great for that .and if i was racing for points in hair scramble type racing i might run a 4 stroke ..bottom line is 2 strokes make me smile
I’ve never ridden a two stroke I like the idea of something lighter then I currently have I enjoy the features of the four stroke on 4 to 5 day overnight trips
Try one, you won’t go back
@@honda8192 I tried one. Ill stick with my 4t. 2t was fun but I like the power of the 4t better. Not to mention Im not a big fan of the 2t sound
2 strokes are calling your name then bro. He’s right, once you try a 2 stroke, you’ll never want to ride a 4 stroke again
Remember Scotty on Star Trek screaming "use the right tool for the right job!"? That... There's something to be said for big-bore 4-stroke racing and the wonder that is engine braking combined with extremely controllable throttle, and then there's lugging a gear higher when needed. Dealing with fast transitions from speed to rutted turns is its true calling. 4-strokes also allows for throttle based pitch control while airborne. Then there's the lightness of a 2-stroke in hard enduro to be able to coax that light bike through repositioning enroute. The 2-stroke feels like you can blast over an obstacle without as much mass to control, it just feels that way. Then you ping the rev-limiter on a 450MX bike down the straightaway and start to lean while chopping the throttle and the braking draws that rear out on that flat-track turn while the inside leg outriggers as you skid control squeezing the outside leg. Feels like a skidding a super downhill skidding turn. You need MX suspension for MX tracks, it's just that way. I have to explain why I have 3 bikes, because unfortunately I can't race and train everything on the one. It'd make life less complicated if I could.
Love them both... But long live the two stroke!
Hello, i'm thinking of getting a thermostat (getting low temps on my bike the way I ride, hard to get it higher than 60ºC) on my AJP PR5, but dont know how to do it....
Do I really need a Bypass line or just the thermostat will it burn the water pump without the bypass ?
Wish someone can help me.
Use a brand name coolant and a radiator cap with higher pressure.
This should work.
Start with small single steps at a time.
Antonis Loizou my problem isn’t getting low temperatures, is that I can’t get higher temps, only idling fr 10 mins it gets to normal temperature....
Okay then you should go on coolant mixure and then on thermostat.
Check the owner's manual for specs
I ride a 2stroke myself and 4 strokes are like driving a bulky Cadillac when you want to be in something light and aggressive. 2strokes scream anarchy! Lol. I just uploaded my first trail ride to the pits on here actually. Was an awesome time.
I have a CRF 150r right now and it’s my first bike. I’m 14, 5ft 8 inches and 125 pounds and need a bigger bike but i don’t know if I should get a 125 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke. I’m a ok rider but not a great rider . I ride track mostly and I don’t know what would be good for me. It would really help to get your opinion! Thanks!
I love both,if I could choose 1 it would be 4 stroke,but 2 stroke so god dam fun
2 stroke for me as it just sounds as crazy as a bike looks.They vibrate ,they sound sick and that pipe ting just adds to it all
Ride the bike that speaks to your soul
Two strokes acceleration is higher and is enjoyable to listen too.
There, the debate is over.
Man you need to get that suit fitted you looked like you had no gainz in it 💪🏻
It just depends what type of riding you wanna do for which one you prefer
I just picked up a CRF450l and I love that bike but eventually I want a 250 two stroke bike as well. I'm just to the point where I want both vs trying to figure out which one is the best because neither one is the best at everything
300 cc is probably is, will do everything you throw at it. Motocross, rally, hard enduro, it will do everything.
As long as you enjoy what you ride, dont hate but take that thing on a date
Love my 300 exc. I've riden both and I definitely prefer the 2 stroke! They are more fun to ride especially riding on the pipe 😩 something you just don't get from the 4 strokes. I really like the slow technical riding and the 4 strokes just don't do well at super slow speeds.