All about the original K Zildjian cymbals
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2019
- Here is a video answering many of the questions I have received about the very old cymbals that I use on some of my my drum set videos. This video discusses how to pick out, fix (if necessary) and take care of the original K Constantinople cymbals which are much different from modern K's.
The audio is very basic...just one stereo microphone which is a vintage AKG C 24 stereo mic. This microphone makes a great overhead and cymbals tend to sound very natural with it.
The Drum Set is a 1982 Gretsch Centennial set ....my favorite jazz kit.
“My teacher, Joe Morello...” explains a lot!
Rick has always had some serious cymbals. Tried to buy an 18 from him some years ago and unfortunately he was not interested. Master musician for sure but also a fantastic recording engineer!
I’ve heard that 18 in person many times... that is THE sound! One of my favorite cymbals I’ve ever heard!
Not only can you flat out play but your cymbal tone is like none other! Wow. I’m 4 years late but I’m glad I’m here
Great info...thanks for taking the time to share some of your extensive knowledge on K cymbals.
This is a treasure trove of information. Thank you, sir!
I once loaned Brian Blade one of my drum kits for a gig and he travelled with an old Ludwig flat based cymbal stand since his old K that he used as a left side ride wouldn’t fit on modern stands since the center hole was small. The only modern stand I’ve come across that can accommodate old K’s with small center holes are the ones made by Canopus.
It's usually the cymbal sleeve that's the problem. You can get some thin clear tubing from a hardware store and that fixes the issue with the modern-day stands.. In the old days the threaded parts of the stand top were thinner so players could use thinner sleeves or in some cases no sleeves and that's why so many old K's are keyholed.
Your videos are so useful, and your playing is very inspiring also. Very natural way of playing and explaining your vision, ideas, etc. straight to the point. I love it.😊
Excellent video--very informative and entertaining...also great playing. Thank you!
Lovely video, lovely playing ! So natural, so musical...
Thank You!
That ride is outrageously nice.
Thanks such for this! I was looking for 80s zildjians to go with my 80s drums, but this was also super useful and taught me a lot. Hope you make more of these! 😊
i could listen to you playing like this for days!
Very beautiful vid keep them coming...! Thanks so much !!
You play great! Really appreciate your voice on the instrument Rick!
Thanks, Rick. This is awesome.
very good rickdior, i like your playing, nice flow, good techinical stuff,
superb video... thank you
I'm in the process of possibly buying a gorgeous 21" right now .
I got to play it a few months ago and passed on it simply because it was expensive ... but my goodness did it sound and play beautifully.
slight key holing but nothing more...
I've had remorse since passing and am in talks with the owner again
Excellent show...many thanks
I love the sound ur getting from the 18. Very nice.
Gorgeous drums!
Those are some real gems. Nice.
Love your playing!
Great stuff. Found you after viewing your traditional grip. By the way, I have an 18" Avedis Zildjian A transition stamp crash/ride with 2 rivets, if anyone is interested. Love your videos.
Great informational video about the old K's that a lot of younger drummers should definitely know about. Especially your excellent advice about buying ANY cymbals online, from Ebay or wherever. I learned the hard way and lost money in the process, as well as being very disappointed. Buying cymbals online is like going on a blind date. Think about it. I bought a vintage 18" Istanbul K off Ebay and it is truly a dog. Real gong like and in your words a "hummer" in the worst way. Go to a pro drum shop and try ALL cymbals out, using your personal choice of sticks. Thanks Rick for a trove of valuable info and fantastic playing as well.
Very informative . Thank You !!
I like the sound of both sticks
I have. 60s K 18”. Still perfect. Got it with my 60’s era Gretsch round badge.
That ride sounds remarkably like my Dream Energy Dark Matter 22" ride. Interesting...
Freaking awesome!
I would love to see an up close pic of the 18 drill holes and filing w rivets nice playing
The dude who sold his grandfather's cymbal must not care about drums that much. If I had a granddad with an awesome cymbal, no money could be offered.
Sounds like a very disrespectable person and a Neanderthal type drummer.
My first ride cymbal was I believe a 20" Constantinople with the stamp of a crest and star. If I played it on the edge it would start to sound like a Gong.
Beautiful anniversary Gretsch Kit! Great playing too!
Thanks for sharing your cymbal knowledge ... I learned a lot. I had a beautiful set of 14” Istanbul Ks hi hats ... both were about the same weight ... slight difference ... I trade them for a 7x14 N&C SS SNARE with my old drum teacher who is amazing jazz drummer. That was because back 30 years ago I was playing too much rock music. But it’s great to him play those beautiful hi hats to this day. What are your thoughts on the Zildjian Kerope cymbals and Modern Constantinople cymbals?
@@earldrum
Hi Earl
While there are certainly some amazing cymbals being made today I have personally not played on anything that comes close to the feel and sound of the original K's. Of course the age of the cymbals might have something to do with that.
That big 'ole ride is a peach.
Have you ever tried a 20'' Meinl Byzance Dark Ride? Seems to work good for jazz, I've also got a 22'' Dream Vintage Bliss crash/ride with a lot more wash
thanks for making this video, Very interesting stuff, great playing and really nice recording. This recording was just made with the C24 and no kick mic? You really have a classic jazz tone dialed in here from playing to gear choice and tuning and recording.
Yes Just the C24. It's a stereo mic that has incredible reach.
@@rickdior wow, that's great! Would have thought there was a bass drum mic. Really nice job playing so balanced.....as every good recording engineer knows, great sound starts with great playing!
Great playing and sounds. Wonderful information too. You know what I'd love to see? A really good drummer playing on a cheap kit with old heads and crummy cymbals just to show how the player can matter more than the gear.
Youll find that on youtube
With all due respect to your craft and dedication sir, but you have got a few facts wrong: The Old Ks were made in Istanbul up until the mid 70s. (Avedis Zildjian bought all rights to the K Zildjian trademark and closed the factory in the late 70s). Tony Williams played his famous old stamp Ks that were given to him by Max Roach for most of his groundbreaking records in the 60s but he continued playing new stamp Ks made in the 60s and 70s later on until he switched and helped establish the american made Ks for the Avedis Zildjian company. And to continue being a smart ass ;) : the cymbals you are playing are istanbul Ks not constantinople because in the 40s Istanbul was not called constantinople anymore, and from the 30s onwards the cymbals were stamped K Zildjian Istanbul!
For anybody curious enough to dig in a little deeper:
robscott.net/cymbals/k-istanbul/1/
Thanks for the info Deniz. I will still call them my old K's because the new K's sound nothing like them.
@@rickdior very true, the american made Ks do sound very different despite all the effort that the company has put into it!
Hey Rick. I have a question for you and all those EAK K Zildjian lovers.
I‘m currently searching for the perfect ride cymbal that I can use for litte acoustic-gigs with my band. We are five musicians and we usually play: upright bass, electric piano, classical guitar, western guitar + vocals & myself on the drums. The performed genres range from Jazz standards to pop covers and own songs. As you can tell we‘re far from being a straight ahead jazz group but we have our own style. Mostly acoustic and intimate.
That’s why I put together a little drumkit which I can easily carry around the city consisting of: a 12“ wooden snare, a 14“ bassdrum (used to be a floor tom) a 13“ floor tom and my beloved cymbals: the 13“ Paiste 602 hats and a 16“ K Zildjian Dark Crash thin.
So the only thing that’s still missing is a dope ride cymbal which CAN DO BOTH: play uptempo jazz patterns + carry a laid back pop-chorus without outing itself to be a “jazz-only“ ride.
After many hours of researching the internet and testing cymbals at my local drum shops I came to the conclusion that most of the 20“ ride cymbals were still too loud for my taste and that I would have to go with a 18“ or 19“.
So here we go:
Yesterday I found a used 18“ EAK K Zildjian Ride on ebay for 180 bucks. In good condition and without any signs of damage. So what do you guys think? Should I go for it? Has anyone ever played that 18“ EAK K ride? Would it work for my scenario?
Hi Yannick
I am not very familiar with the cymbal you are talking about but for what you are describing a Paiste Traditional 20" thin or light ride would work well. You can see and hear them on my Jazz ride cymbal video.
You can find them used quite often and they all sound pretty identical so you will be safe buying online. The danger of buying cymbals online is that you cannot play them in person and most cymbals...especially the Zildjian K line can have enormous differences from cymbal to cymbal.
Hope this helps
I learn so much from this video! Thank you Rick! Now I have mi first Constantinople médium thin low 20' Ride, and I want to put rivets on, I love rivets on jazz rides, you recomend put rivets on any ride cymbal? Thx again. Greetings from Chile.
Hi Jota
Hope your doing great in the beautiful country of Chile.
I put rivets in everything! That ride you have would work great with rivets since it's thin. I have a video on my channel which is here ua-cam.com/video/zlo6Et1dg68/v-deo.html. I show you how to do it safely.
Let me know how it comes out
Best
Rick
@@rickdior oh yes, I saw that video! You get off the fear to put rivets on cymbals, thx for your answer! Take care.
@@rickdior what kind of rivets you use?
Zildjian Rivets
@@rickdior by the way, I put 3 zildjian rivets on my Constantinople Medium Thin Low 20' Ride... Sounds amazing!. Thx Rick!
Nice video! What size is your bass drum?
18x14
Great cymbals! What's that kit?
Hi Steve
That's a Gretsch Centennial kit from around 1982.
I have super thin Bosphorus Traditionals 22 &20 that are as close to old k's as poss. Rick,do you know the weight of the 21?
If you watch my Jazz ride cymbal video all the weights are there.
@@rickdior I did last night . ok , I prob missed it. I'll go back ,thanks man.
The myth of the Earth Ride was that it was buried. It wasn’t, but Zildjian started that rumor/myth themselves and then many years later “busted” it by admitting they didn’t really bury them.
Rick have you ever played on a Craviotto Diamond Series Ply Drum Set?
Hi
I have not but I own a Craviotto solid shell kit and it's pretty nice.
There as a huge love loss between the A Ziljian family and the Turkish Ks that were solely distributed by Gretsch from the late 30 thru about 1979. The two really had nothing to do with each other. The new Ks in America that came out in 1982 or 83 were not like the Turkish ones st all. Supposedly the took Elvin's Ks to copy them. I don't know what Ks Elvin loaned them, but they weren't like they should have been.
jimflys2 yes, but despite the dissimilarity, they are great cymbals.
For the money I would want an exclusively hand made cymbal
You put felt on top of your cymbals?
Your 18 sounds just like mine.
Rick where have got these wonderful k zildjian?
Hi Toni
I acquired them over many years from different sources. You can watch my Jazz ride Cymbal video for more information.
Hi Rick! Thanks ! I know all of your Videos! Love it
Oh man, it looks like you must've turned around at some point, and someone swiped your right side tom right off it's mount! 😁
Seriously though, you insinuated that most of the "older" K's, uhm, _sucked_. Why was that, and was it always the case before the modern era? Or were the K's from Turkey actually really good until a certain point, until quality control dropped for awhile?
Hi
The point I was trying to make is that most all of the old K's were very inconsistent. They were all entirely handmade with no real sense of models from one cymbal to the other. You would get cymbals that were really heavy, hummed an inordinate amount, or just physically unbalanced so they would drift in circles on the stand. I have owned about 30 of these cymbals in my lifetime and only 5 or 6 are of a quality that I would consider playable or recordable. Of course, when you got a good one it was the best cymbal you ever played on.
@@rickdior
Ahh, ok, that clears it up. Thanks.
Great informative video i learned a lot however, im just gonna stick with my istanbul Agop cymbals I'd have a heart attack trying to keep up nwith a super expensive rare K. I have a special matched set of istabul Mehmet Tony Williams that just stay in my studio
Would Vic Firth Bolero SD 2 rock maple stick come close to approaching your custom VF stick?
The tip is similar, but the shaft is thicker, and the taper is different.
You can see the video about them here ua-cam.com/video/oro7u4-JTtM/v-deo.html
@@rickdior thanks Rick. great sounding stick you created there.
How do I get a set of those Rick Dior professional sticks?
Sorry but they are not for sale as Vic Firth made me several hundred pairs about 30 years ago and they do not offer them to the general public. A comparable tip would be a SD2 Bolero but the shaft is thicker.
the reason i hate a customs is because they have an unbelievable amount of hum
Can you play some bad sounding vintage k rides, and explaine why you don't like them?
That microphone is over $13,000. 😂😂
Yes that mic is expensive but if you watch my microphone video I give you lots of choices that are much cheaper.
I'VE SEEN ENOUGH ON NEW CYMBAL CONCEPTS. TRANSLATION IS: HIP CYMBALS ARE TO BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD.
Those c23 microphones cost a fortune now