Film Theory: Why You SHOULDN'T FLY to Mordor! (The Lord of the Rings)
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- Опубліковано 25 лис 2017
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When it comes to The Lord of the Rings, one of the most common questions circulated online is why didn’t Frodo just ride the giant Eagles to Mount Doom? There are theories out there that suggest this was the plan all along, but sadly, when you look at the evidence, that's just wrong. In fact, it's so wrong, it's dangerous! In this episode, I will give you the definitive answer to why Frodo didn’t simply ride those giant birds into Mordor!
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“One does not simply fly to Mordor”
That’s another reason that the eagles weren’t used, the Nazgul still had power and their fell beasts were more than a match for the eagles when coupled with a powered up Nazgul.
Magic Wizards mostly because of the massive amount of fire breathing drakes
Outside Nazgul people miss also another obvious fact. Those eagles didn't give a shit about the war. They did save Gandalf from time to time because he saved they prince, but outside that they didn't take any orders. If anyone would ask them to fly to Mordor they would simply lough and fly away.
@@mr.k418 Nazgul, The Witch King of Angmar
@@JimmyTurner Yeah fire drakes will blow the f eagles away, did you watch the video, it's was cool man.
"The Theorists delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness there." (A MatPat)
That always happens
@@AyumiChanVT i had no memory of this place; had to watch the video all over again to decipher wtf i was thinking
Normaly, i dont call people stupid for not knowing
a theory, but wow. People didnt knew this?
I literally always knew this, decades before this video here
came out. I didnt even knew people understand this franchise
so much not that they dont know what THE RING does. Wow.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
you missed a huge point. The eagles were described as neutral observers for the valar. Gandalf was only allowed to ride them a few times because healed/helped their king
Yeah and thorondor promises the valar to not interfere with the acts of men.
@@danboom101 and by men he probably means anything not a god or demigod level so no hobbits or dwarfs either
Yes so basically the eagles are to badass to help out them weak races (expect for Gandalf because they owed him a depth)
@@theholycarp8044 Eagles rarely concern themselves with those lesser races, unless they want to steal their sheep. The few times they did got involved was because of the wizards.
Thank you
Read the book. Eagles promised the valar not to interact with men.
Gandalf was an exeption and he was no human.
In the west, that is forgotten my name was Olorin
Hobbits are not men. They are hobbits
@@telosgrupo8308 and Hobbits are sub species of men
Also, in the book Gandalf tells them exactly where he gets taken by the Eagles.
Gwahir the king of the eagles flew him to Rohan, becuase the eagles as they say “are meant to bring message not burdens”
@@yourdailytoilet5962 Actually No, Hobbits are a misture of Humans, Dwarfs, and Elfs !
Thats why they are not predictable by Gandalf standards ...
The eagle thing isn't even a plot hole. Sauron was obviously keeping tabs on big players like the eagles. They would easily get spotted and get shut down, giving Sauron the ring.
This is kinda the point of getting Frodo to carry the ring to Mordor. The hobbits were always overlooked, ignored and never looked at as a serious threat by Sauron, making them ideal to sneakily carry the ring to Mordor.
@roxoto He knew one had it and sent three of his servants there who entirely overran the Hobbits attempts at stopping his advance before his servants were turned back by the greatest of the dunedein and eventually one of the greatest elves. So he assumed that those people took it to use it.
Hobbits being overlooked ties into why the ring only makes them invisible.
@roxoto Yes, but only a Hobbit would still be able to stay hidden becasue they can persevere through the harshest conditions, even though they themselves, don't realize it.
How could the hobbits be overlooked, when sauron is specifically looking for them from the shire on! Hardly a surprise attack vector.
You could fly with eagles to mordor because in the hobbit we see bilbo getting carried by an eagle while carrying the ring
My favorite line was always from Legendary Frog's flash animations:
"My love for you is like my quiver of arrows: Never ending." - Legolas
Never ending until he really needs to use it.
Iamthedarklordsauronandihaveforgedtheoneringtorulethemall.
SwankyBox Legolans suck and yondu is the one
sacratul I always like Legoland its a fun place to take the kids
GUYS!!! MATPAT FUCKED UP!!! No really the only problem I have with this theory is that the eagles would easily be able to overcome the Nazgul since they're so ancient and powerful, especially since Sauron no longer has the support of dragons or balrogs. Also Eru Illuvitar is the only real god. Aule, Yavanna, and Manwe are all Valar, a.k.a. children of Eru Illuvitar. The Maiar are simple less powerful versions of the Valar, but are all members of the Ainur, or essentially the creators. Melkor (a.k.a. Morgoth a.k.a. Bigger and Badder than Sauron) is also
a Valar but is not a god. Have fun!
That moment when you realize the reason the ring turns hobbits invisible is because their greatest power lies in stealth. I wonder what kind of powers would be boosted if given to other races.
Wow
I wonder what would happen if one of the gods had it? Would they be like god gods?
Isildur also wore the ring, and he's a man, yet he also turned invisible. Interesting thought but I like to think the ring has levels, and the more powerful the race its wielded by, the more level it "unlocks" for lack of a better term. For example, maybe Gandalf would not only become invisible, but have a multitude more powers than Frodo or any other hobbit.
It is all explained in the books, with the ring Gandalf or Galadriel could easily defeat Sauron, but would get easily get corrupted by the Ring too.
Basically if Gandalf used the ring to defeat Sauron, He will become a new dark lord replacing Sauron..is a Fubar.😁
When watching Gandalf dying the first time I always just took the phrase “fly you fools” to mean run really fast?? I never got the reference to the eagles
That's because you were right and it wasn't a reference to the eagles at all.
Yes, in medieval speak "fly" means run or make haste... This eagle theory was always so stupid... especially that part. "Hur dur gandalf was acthually telling them to use tha eegle burds."
Hur let's fly the ring to mordor over an orc army through a swarm of nazgul where it's always storming next to a giant magic tower where everyone can see us.
@@addicted2p0rn Don't forget Saruman's also there
For me to be a Castilian speaker, I read: Corred, insensatos.
that's because it wasn't a reference to the eagles and he literally just meant run away, you were right
The theory assumes that ''fly'' means literal flight. In the book, Gandalf uses the word ''fly'' several times to refer to running away or hurrying, not literal flight.
Also, in the Polish translation this sentence is translated to "Uciekajcie szaleńcy." which basically means "Escape you fools." And while we all know translations get weird sometimes, i feel like this is more proof that he didn't mean fly.
The same is true for the Dutch translation
And for the Swedish translation
@@Gfurys and the German
@@Sennahoj_DE_RLP and the French one
Starting to notice a pattern here
One does not simply make a LOTR theory without wrecking the most famous LOTR theory in history.
mboom123 yeah I doubt the real mat would do that
What’s that theory
K
Report the spam comments
Isagail genius
Debunking the theory in one sentence.
"The eye will spot them and send the Nazgûl"
mat has his moments
Yup! Try to stay on the back of an giant eagle while it does a barrel roll during the aerial fight with the Fell beasts.
*Sauron not the “eye”
Yeah that’s all that was really needed and it’s was basically his final sentence
Also there’s a part in the book I think that said that the eagles couldn’t because Mordor and Sauron would corrupt them. They only went AFTER Sauron was defeated
When you realize that Gandalf sent three eagles, 2 for Sam and Frodo, and 1 for Gollum.
Oh my god
@@no3ironman11100 ikr?
oh no
In The Hobbit, the eagles say they don't fly over the lands of men incase they get shot down. Why would they fly over hundreds of miles of men and then over an orc army in full view of everyone. They picked Frodo and Sam up because the orc army had been dispersed and their risk was pretty much gone.
Yes. This here is correct. Hallelujah.
This isn't true in the hobbit. The eagles pretty much fly into battle as arrows are raging at the end.
@@maxkennedy-s Just because the are willing to fly into battle witht heir entire populous gathered at once while supported by several ground armies does not mean arrows are not going to hurt them. They technically did not even change the course of the battle that was Beorn.
@@maxkennedy-s that's because the Wood Elves of Mirkwood were already at Erebor.
They did though genius.... how do you have you not added that up yet?
4:54 Fly you fools!
I always thought he was using fancy medieval language and just meant, "Run you idiots!"
He was.
it is
Bless your soul.
wherethetatosat lol i never knew wat he said till now
wherethetatosat I thought he said run you fools until I watched this video
The answer to "Fly, you fools" is pretty simple. It means 'Flee, you fools' and nothing else -- Fly meaning to take flight, ergo to flee.
Literally Mat's point tho?
Gandalf says "run" before this multiple times, and only says "fly" once. You can not possibly be sure he didn't mean actually fly.
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x I don't know that he says "run" to mean "flee" in the books. "Fly you fools" is a quote from the book, it's more likely that what you describe is just an inconsistency with the script
@@j_stach "more likely" means nothing. Either he says flee often or he doesn't. And he doesn't.
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x ...so you're saying it's *more likely* that he meant to fly
Love that in an interview with Tolkien he explained that he was asked this by a bunch of drunks in a bar and he told them (and the interviewer) to "shut up"
Haha yes! I am glad someone else has seen that interview. Tolkien was savage.
@@letsjustplay20 It was faked by an actor unfortunately.
One does not simply fly into Mordor...
One does not simply fly into Mordor, they fly into Mordor using big eagles.
Yes
After everyone else in Mordor was distracted by pretty much every human warrior in all the kingdoms
Its not mordor its MORRDOHRRRR
The Theory-Buster!
sounds interesting....
I would watch that ^^
Watch? I'd _subscribe_ to that in an instant!
You should make that a series
Film/Game Theory's enemy
they DO have two more slots on the logo....
When you’re on eagles the chances the eye spots you are extremely high, the only reason they succeeded was because Frodo and Sam was stealthy till the very last moment.
Actually, the 3 “gods” you list are angels, in the beginning there is Eru (God) and he creates them, and they participate in creating everything else, also the eagles, unlike dwarves and ents, don’t have free will, and are not Eru’s children (like the Elves and Men) meaning they may have more power, yet they have less importance. Again, the Valar are Higher angels, the Maiar are lower angels, and, also, in the books Gandalf touches the ring once or twice, but only briefly.
They aren't angels. Valar just means 'the Powers', and they are called gods by Men.
"The Great among these spirits the Elves name the Valar, the Powers of Arda, and Men have often called them gods." - the Silmarillion
The Valar may not be Children of Illuvatar, but they do have free will, as much as anyone in Arda has free will. Melkor wove Discord into the Music because he had free will. Aule made the Dwarves of his own will, without the approval of Eru. The Maiar also have free wills, because of their own will they turned to Melkor (Sauron and the Balrogs) or to Sauron (Saruman). I say 'as much' because in the end everything seems to be part of Illuvatar's plan (Melkor's discord just contributed to a grander Music at the end).
If you are calling them Angels because you think they are allegorical representations of Judeo-Christian angels, I think you'd be wrong because Tolkein famously hated allegory.
@@sekharapramod7819 not true.
“The immediate ‘authorities’ are the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the ‘gods’. But they are only created spirits - of high angelic order we should say, with their attendant lesser angels - reverend, therefore, but not worshipful; and though potently ‘subcreative’, and resident on Earth to which they are bound by love, having assisted in its making and ordering, they cannot by their own will alter any fundamental provision.”
Tolkien’s Letter - 153
Also you’re completely misunderstanding allegory. Tolkien was very very careful to keep his work theologically in line with Catholicism and wrote whole letters defending it as bing theologically compatible with Catholicism.
@@Dougy359 what source do you have to back up the fact that Tolkien was a Catholic, as opposed to a Protestant Christian?
@@JuvenalFariasG "The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."
-The Letters of JRR Tolkien, Letter 142
"Or more important, I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic."
-The Letters of JRR Tolkien
Who would win?
One feathery boi
Or
A giant eye tower
if you want to really know why the egales cant be use'd hit me up
pownpoes wut
pownpoes I don't care
Don't listen to film theorists it's a scam
ur doing it wrong
Tolkien's fantasy world does have one God: Eru Ilúvatar. Valar were kinda like his 'children', or offspring (of thought). We could call them high angels, lesser angels are called Maiar - They did have their part in creating the world (Eä) - or more like the universe -, and the planet they live on, their Earth (Arda).
Yet the children are actually Elves and Men - called the First and Second children. But they could only create within the framework set by Eru.
I think it is more likely the Valar and Maiar are akin to the Cherubim, Seraphim, Powers, Principalities, and Dominions, who are far above the angels. The elves would actually be more akin to the angels.
@@michaelogrady232 Cherubim and Seraphim are types of angels, higher of course than those not mentioned separately by separate names, who are the messengers people meet. Highest ranking is called an archangel, like Michael - but still a type of angel.
Bible warns us not to make very detailed studies of angels. So let's not make divisions where there isn't, like Seraphimand Cherubim wouldn't be angels, they are - just difference is in might, mainly. Especially Bible warns us about the Powers, Principalities, and Dominions - showing them more like the forces misguiding us, saying that Jesus is stronger than them.
Because they are under the lord of this world - if they don't tell the message Jesus and Holy Spirit are telling. They seek to mislead us instead, so we wouldn't find Jesus and to our Father in Heaven.
More is not told to us, so we should take that as a message as well. It's not the focus of Bible - Jesus is, and the relationship of man and God, where Jesus is the key. Even Holy Spirit is not explained in detail, mainly pointed that he will teach us about Jesus.
@@michaelogrady232 The Elves couldn't be angels, because they are created after the world (Arda) is created. They are just Tolkien's version of another humanoid race - who can even mix with the humans. Well, Bible does tell that some angels (sons of God) made children with women, producing the heros of the old times. But the elves are created, unlike angels - like the Valar and Maiar who were along when this world of Arda was made.
@Kian Dianati Thanks. Have forgotten some :)
Just Eä I would call the Universe - world is very closely synonymous with the Earth (the whole wide world knows ...something, in all 'corners' of the world). But it's more like the people and their countries, instead of the planet.
But why you said 'Firstly'.
With Ea and Arda I was careless, maybe tired. Arda is easy to get, because it's a sound play from the word Earth, and it's cognates Erde (German), Ard (Arabic), Arets (Hebrew), Jord (Swedish) etc.
The "Gods" you talked about are angels and the God is Eru Ilùvitar
Or you could see them as gods and Eru as a Titan and the Maiar as angels , if we base it on ancient greece. Because really , the "only" difference between Eru and the gods is that he can give free will or a " soul " as he explains to Aule when he is about to destroy his creation , the dwarves, to repent for his sin of creating a new race before the elves. When Aule created the dwarves, they were puppets that he controlled, but when he picked up his hammer to destroy them, they cowered in fear, because Eru, in his love decided to give them free will and adopt them as his own.
They are just lesser gods. The Maiar would be considered "angels"
@@PerceptionOverload Hello....... J.R.R was a Devoted Catholic and He Himself Says that the Ainur are Angles that they are just 'Powers'
Eru Ilùvatar creates the Valar and the Maiars ( btw the balrog is also a Maiar) and everyone sing together to create the world except the "lucifer" of this universe who create all the suffering (yay 🥳)
And the Valar created the creatures
Yeah Tolkien said the Real god is well God
9:44 the ring expands to fit the wearer so it would have fit them
yeah forgive me if i remember incorrectly but didnt the ring betray the guy who first had it when souron died it grew making him visible and he was made a porcupine with arrows
Darragh
The ring has a will of its own since it contains Sauron’s soul within the ring. If it wants to be lost, it’ll be lost. If it wants to be found, it’ll be found.
I would watch The Theory Buster.
he should make a channel called that
Gray Dawg valar are more like the gods of Olympus. While illuvitar is more like Christian God
Dean Campos that is a terrible analogy but yeah it's basically that there's an almighty god being the highest ranked and the valar being insanely powerful but not almighty.
Next Simon side LETS GO!
It's always easier to disprove something wrong than it is to prove something right.
Also, the Nazghul had giant winged beasts of their own, and if you took the one ring into the air, there would be nothing keeping Sauron from seeing it as soon as they appear on the horizon.
Nazghul are the winged beasts, not the 9 ring wraiths. :)
@Marcus Alm You're wrong. Nazghul means "Ring Wraith" The flying creatures were called "fellbeasts"
Marcus Alm you just got out-nerded, son
Then I read a book wrong, somewhere. Or the translator got it wrong...
Marcus Alm No, Nazghul are the ring wraiths
"The theory buster" that coud be the famous 4th channel.
Normaly, i dont call people stupid for not knowing
a theory, but wow. People didnt knew this?
I literally always knew this, decades before this video here
came out. I didnt even knew people understand this franchise
so much not that they dont know what THE RING does. Wow.
@@slevinchannel7589 I saw each movie once...7 years ago i think and i never read the books.
I still absolutely love how The Lord of the Rings epitomizes certain aspects of fantasy. Stuff like how the race of men are typically noble and good but are constantly being corrupted when in the presence of power. It’s the kind of thing that isn’t new to fantasy or even other genres but the lord f the rings does it the best.
Well tbf Lord of The Rings is basically the grandfather of modern fantasy
But yeah Tolkien was a great writer and he did those elements incredibly well
Real humans are constantly corrupted by power, too, even if it isn't magic power.
Probably because Tolkien is literally considered the grandfather of high fantasy, that's why so many tropes exist now. (Fantasy existed before but Tolkien influenced how fantasy as a genre is now)
LOOKS LIKE MEMES BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!
I want mine Extra Thicc~!
Gee thanks 100% real Film Theorists, i sure hope it is some sort of malicious browser infecting virus! only one way to find out!
OH GOLLY IT WAS! OH JOY!
wait is that legit
Aku?
Don't fly Spirit Eagles airlines fly jetblue
B I G S U P R I S E *-----} NOTASCAM.JPG*
No fly Southwest
6! 6 fake accounts!
Yeah I got that add too
No, the question is "why are there three hobbit movies but the hobbit is the shortest book
Edit: Wow I never expected this many likes and replys lol
*Money*
The Hobbit was a book intended for children ...
The LOFTR's and the Silmarillion were intened for a more Teenage audiance ...
@@muisje_mira358 lol
Money
He goes into parts that the book only mentions like Gandalf discovering about Sauron. He creates chracters like Tauriel and gives the movie a romantic side. And the movie has to be longer. The battle of the fove armies is two pages in the book. If the battles was really short then people would be pissed. And money.
i think he wasted his time taking 12 minutes to say that Sauron is watching and the Nazgul have fellbeasts
Well he needs to explain it otherwise nobody thinks it'll be good because there are no facts to go with it.
The point is that power corrupts, and the ring is just that. If the eagles were carrying them they woulda went, just like Isildur and Frodo, naw man - it's mine now.
@Craig Gibbons Who's making things up? Eagles are an ancient race with a very good understanding of power. Which is more likely than not the very reason they don't want anything to do with it. Eagles in this universe aren't animals per se, they are very much self aware and can think logically, unlike frogs, snails and most any other beast.
It's perfectly simple: The ring cannot be knowingly destroyed. By anyone (with perhaps the exception of Bombadil, but even that's debatable).
Gwahir would have not flown to Mt Doom and dunked the ring. It would have corrupted his mind long before that point. If Gwahir had carried a ringbearer, he would have turned against that ringbearer long before that point also. It's sort of the whole point of the books really. It's the same reason Gandalf can't carry it.
It was ultimately destroyed by accident and that was always going to be the only way.
MrPicklerwoof I love this comment
True, Isildur cracked when he was in mount doom right at the edge. Same happened with Frodo, who had carried it all this way from the shire.
But the eagles did carry a ringbearer: Bilbo. They carried him twice after he found the ring in the hobbit, when they rescued the company from the trees and when they brought them to the Carrock.
I guess they weren't corrupted back then because they had no idea Bilbo had the ring, just like Gandalf himself didn't know. This would mean that even though the eagles are very powerful and have insanely keen sight, they can't perceive the ring.
@@GeraltSavior Not only did they not know but they also only traveled a very short distance so the Ring did not have much time to corrupt them. Flying over thousands of miles with more powerful enemies might create a more tempting situation.
Also, does Sauron's state of power influence the power of the Ring maybe? That could be another explanation then because when the Eagles carried Bilbo, Sauron was not fully back in the game yet.
Bombadil would accidentally lose it in Mt Doom
You should do a film theory on Charlie and the Chocolate factory on their products. Ice cream that lasts hours without melting on a hot day? Full course meal chewing gum?
The producers said that they were a pain to maintain. The chocolate waterfall would spoils and get mold all the time
The Film Theorists come one
Back to using science instead of conjecture in all his theories A+
That ice cream actually exists. Certain ice creams are made in such a way that they CAN last for hours outside on a warm day. It's not that incredible.
Now that stuff has to have a LOT of synthetic chemicals in it lol.
The problem is that the "Fly you Fools" thing doesn't even work in any language where the word fly can't mean to flee. In German the translation say they need to flee, which leaves no room for interpretation of this sentence
“flieht” und “fliegt” ist ein Buchstabe Unterschied …. Es funktioniert auch in Deutsch
@@sia1759 bein und kein ist auch ein Buchstabe Unterschied. Fly und Fly ist das SELBE wort mit selber Schreibweise und ausspreche. Wo lässt ein Buchstabe Unterschied interpretations Spielraum?
In der Aussprache meine ich ist es leicht misszuverstehen ob er sagt „flieht“ oder „fliegt ihr Narren“. Deswegen hat es für mich selbst in der deutschen Syncro immer Sinn ergeben.
Es funktioniert meiner Meinung nach auf Deutsch, wenn auch auf etwas andere Weise
Remember when the Hobbit came out in theaters? It was 2012, the theater was crowded, and then people just ended up not talking about it until the second came out.
That moment... When you feel like a huge nerd because you know all this lore going into the video instead of coming out...
I know, right?
wear it as a badge of honor!
@@levipetersen4406 seconded
"MORRRDDORR"
love your vids Bandit!
mmmorrrrrrdorrrr
BanditRants sut up
MORGDOOOORRRR
333 likes. Until NOW.
11:31 I love that quote. Tolkien be like why do you think higher beings care? Mortals are like ants to them
this is probably my favorite video in this channel. Mat should do more of these theory busting videos
I would totally watch an entire video of you telling LOTR lore
Composing Gloves you just did
Not just this video, I think we're talking commentary on The Silmarillion! 😎 Oh yeah
Me too
Same
If you're really that interested there's a good channel called "Men Of the West" that talks about this kind of thing endlessly.
YOU TURNED A MEME INTO A THEORY?
Memetheorists
Sorta........
YES
He did it with Bee Movie
Well, he's been scrapping the bottom of the barrel for a while now...
"I'm Johnny on the clock, you need me to bring you a ride?"
[Eagle's Eyrie]
[Yevanwe Eagle]
"I'll bring it to ya!"
When Sam carried the ring for a short time, it tried to corrupt him. The ring tempted Sam with visions of him as a great warrior king, but the wildest thing Sam himself could imagine was a huge beautiful garden, with trees, flowers and the best and biggest veggies in Middle Earth. Sam didn't even think about letting others do the gardening, paid or enslaved, he wanted it all for himself, including the work. There's just nothing the ring could work with.
My reasoning all these years was that they could easily get shot down by arrows or the wyvern riding nazgul could intercept them.
Same
I agree, although technically, the creatures ridden by flying Nazgûl are called Fell Beasts. That's the only name by which they are ever referred.
Pretty sure the books specifically state that the eagles are faster than the winged Nazgul though.
Yeah, but the eagles would be flying towards them, not trying to outrun them.
Plus they'd be flying into the heart of the enemy base. Like there's thousands of orcs there. Honestly fuck that. I wouldn't wanna fly into that.
*Adjusts Nerd Glasses* ACTUALLY the Eagles didn´t kill the Great Dragon aka. Ancalagon the Black. They only fought smaller flying drakes. Ancalagon was killed by Elronds Dad by sailing a flying ship into him.
Also, I dont have a problem with calling the Valar Gods but technically they´re like lesser Gods or Angelic beings. Good Video though.
That was one part where he confused me. I've read the Silmarillion and remember very little of it, but I do remember everything starting with one supreme being, Eru. I didn't even remember the three he mentioned. haha.
Actually in the silmarillion the valar are referred to as angels
they created sun and moon and before that the two lanterns, they made the world, I think that pretty much makes them gods. Yes there is someone above them who created them but that's like saying the nines in skyrim are not gods because Sithis is above them.
Fake ( The Film Theorists thing in the replies)
But Valar were gods who generally play identical role to typical polytheistic deities. They were inferior to creator (Iluvatar) but still a deities controlling aspects of reality. The Maiar on the other hand were leser deities without much personal influence. I remind that monotheistic classification is based on presumption that only God is worth of worship, and according to it both Valar and maiar would be angels and so refuse to accept prayers unaddressed to God. But that wasn't the case here.
I actually researched this too not long ago and I dug up that the reason why is because the eagles didn't want to join this entire war. they save Gandalf because they owe him a life debt (couldn't find why). the eagles are actually neutral creatures, they don't fight for any side just for themselves which is why they join the fight at the end of the third movie, the nazgul were turning around and heading to mt doom where they would've stopped frodo so the eagles stopped them which would bring peace in the world and the eagles could finally rest.
that's just what I read, not saying it's true but I like it and if it's close to being true, cool
I love how the "fly you fools" doesnt even work in German bcs its literally translated "run away you fools"
Could you do a theory on how many calories the Flash would need? In the Justice League movie (I’m not spoiling the plot I swear) the Flash mentions that due to his super speed he’s like a “snack hole” (black hole of snak food) and needs to eat a bunch to keep it up.
Edit: To those of you who have mentioned that they discuss this in the shows and comics, I’m curious if the answers given would be true to real life science
Edit 2: I think *Keelan Barron’s* question on if the Justice League Batman is the same as Tim Burton’s would also be interesting *(credit to them)*
The Magic Potato it mentions in the tv show that he would need around 10,000 calories of food. Any food.
The Magic Potato Flash said he had low blood sugar
The Magic Potato it's been answered in the live action tv series, and a few comic books
The tv show says that it’s 10,000 calories
The Magic Potato A “not even debatable that it isn’t a spoiler” thing to reference is that he has to constantly eat in the comics and TV series.
The best way to destroy the ring would have been to start the rumor that you could become immortal by putting the ring on and jumping into the fires of mordor in order to obtain the armoire of immortality...
Olde Red And the first person who tried would be slaughtered by the orcs or the Nazghul, sending the ring straight back to Sauron.
Literally no one with enough power to get to mount doom without being murdered would be stupid enough to fall for that.
The Ring also “has a mind of its own” and would tempt any users away from the fire (even Frodo)
2 problems with that.
1, some big shot walks into mordor with the ring asking for directions to mt doom, he's going to be orc food. or wraith food.
2, the ring would tell him that it's all BS. it talked to it's wearers. tempting them with it's power.
Looks like you got this one covered guys.LOTR FANATIC OUT!!
When everybody is like "Fly, you fools" means to literally fly when Gandalf saw them standing there just watching as he was about to fall to his death and he is actually saying "Run, you fools! You're still in danger!"
I think I found a plot hole in this. He says they can’t risk the Eagles picking up Frodo because of the One Ring and how it may corrupt them. But in The Hobbit, Bilbo was in possession of the ring when the Eagles carried them out of the forest. So if they didn’t get corrupted then, why would you not trust them now. They could have flown Frodo a very far distance and then let him walk significantly shorter. Just an idea, I’m probably wrong😅
Back in the Hobbit Tolkien didn't know what the ring did other than make you invisible.
The whole situation was a bit different back during the events of the Hobbit. I'm not an expert on how all of this works, but with Sauron gaining a LOT of power during the decades that lie between the books, the ring also got stronger. Its powers of corruption are a bit complicated, but I'm pretty sure they get stronger the closer it gets to Mordor/Sauron. So having the eagles fly Bilbo for a bit,without them knowing about the ring, far away from Mordor, with Sauron still relatively powerless... is a VERY different scenario than telling the eagles about the ring and then expect them to fly a very long distance with it directly towards Sauron, all while Sauron is actively looking for it.
@@AudrenDev Tolkien did actually know as a huge chunk of the LotR's had already been written when the hobbit was being made (neat documentary with Christopher Lee and Christopher Tolkien that discuss that aspect). The reality is that the Eagles are not aware of the ring's existence and that Bilbo was in possession of it. Even in LotR Gandalf, upon seeing the magic ring Bilbo held onto, didn't know it was the ONE ring until he researched it and tested it by tossing it into the fire to confirm his findings. He even mentions that there are a lot of magical rings in the world and none of them are to be used lightly.
So Tolkien knew, but the Eagles and Gandalf had no real clue what Bilbo was in possession of if my memory serves me correctly. Even if Gandalf were to deduce it was a magic ring he could probably not, in that moment, confirm if that were the ONE ring just by visual glance. :)
I think you are right about this one because the ring doesn’t get his powers and his ability to corrupt by knowing about its identity as some people here suggest. So there is no reason not to fly with the eagles. The only reason i can come up with for them not flying to Mordor is that Gandalf wasn’t with them the second half of the way.
Yea, I really dont like the explanation this guy gave. For me, there are 3 real reasons why they didnt use the eagles.
1. They were so large that they would be easily detected.
2. The eagles served the valar and were, like the valar, obligated to leave middle earth to its own.
3. No one had the willpower to destroy the ring. The ring was only destroyed by Gollum on accident when Illuvitar basically pushed him into the lava. While Gandalf isnt all knowing, I think he knew that there was only one way to destroy the ring, and that everyone had a part to play. He even suspected Gollum might have something to do with it, which he mentioned multiple times.
Everytime some ask "Why don't they just use the Eagles?" I ask them if they would blast music in an avalanche zone.
nice analogy. i might steal that from time to time.
Here’s the deal... nothing can kill the eagles so why not send them?...
It's a secret mission. And giant eagles flying overhead is a quick way to get shot down by a ballista and killed.
Jake Blake
Who ever said the eagles are unkillable?
We've seen Mayar, meaning higher ranking beings, be killed.
Immortal has never equaled invincible in the Tolkien universe.
Jake Blake Sauron’s powers would. He would see the Eagle carrying the ring and aim all his power at it. He is watching for a direct onslaught by a new powerful ring bearer like Aragorn or Saruman, and he hopes to kill them before they can master the ring.
Rollin them rrrrrrrr's when you say MooorrrRRRRRrrrrdor
Jay & Rengin jk rollins 😂
The reason why the most popular finnish word is Perkele, because of the RRRRR's! :D perrrrrrrrkele!!
Urbandictionary:
"noun, Finnish.
Most likely the most powerful curseword ever created by mankind. Cannot be translated without loss. Versatile word that can be used alone or repeated indefinitely.
Originally name of the tunder god. In the christian era used as a name of the Satan. Perkele is such a powerful word, bacause it includes both of these connotations and in addition is very often associated with 'sisu', the attitude of never ever giving up." .... :D heck
Jay & Rengin lol you only have to roll the r once. its not rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Onsvaltti
Mm, yes, indubitably
You alright there, buddy?
Manwe was so different in his perception of Middle Earth. It's Canon that he truly doesn't understand the evil Melkor is obsessed with knowing. So it makes sense that his eagles would avoid any corrupting influence as long as they could. They could see the evil but knew it would corrupt them so they avoided it at all costs. Your explanation is perfect.
Why does everyone hate the hobbit trilogy? I think its really good.
exactly, to me only third part had a little bit of unnecessary scenes, but overall it was a great new middle earth experience
I don't hate them, but i find them disappointing. They are so badly written.
@@timrosswood4259 its because guillermo del toro was supposed to be director and the movie was more or less set up the way he wanted,it was at later last minute stages that peter decided to do it but he didnt want to do it,they basically had a few month to change a few things around but sadly with release dates and such it was made to quick but i still loved it,imagine if he had it from start like he did with lord of rings it would have been epic lol
Don't take MatPat's "love" advice. Just....don't....
Advice*
IkarysFlys *Advice
IkarysFlys so I shouldn't of done that? Oh crap...
Yah how is he married?
Omg u guys some of us make spelling mistakes like normal ppl calm ur buns
Well, this completely threw HISHE'S How LOTR Should Have Ended right out the window...
I'm not convinced
Mateusz Marciniak then you're not that intelligent :/
Snoopy Fod OR his arguments just didn't convince me.
I love how every time I’m into something, I can depend on matpat to have a theory about it.
I wonder if theory busters would be the third theory channel
Also the words "Like sneaking into a jamba juice with a fighter jet." Is incredible and possibly the greatest thing said on this channel
No one is gonna point out that the Valar are no gods? Eru Iluvatar is the almighty creator of everything and the Valar are like his angels. He created both men and elves and gave the dwarves a soul.
You are right, there is only one God, Eru is the only God, the creator of Everything, Valar are his angels and Melkor is Lucifer.
We do not speak the name of the Adversary, here!
Morgoth is how we all call him.
Melkor/Morgoth was Maiar too.
uhh no melkor was one of the most powerful valar only second to manwe. that's why sauron and the balrogs (also maiar) followed him
+Evelyn Cox
Wasn't Melkor the most powerful not the second? It's been a while since I read Morgoth's Ring...
That's why he got so upset that he had to do everything Eru's way.
You don’t really have to be either a rockey scientist or a Lord of the Rings fanboy to know that if they flew to Mordor, the eye of Sauron would see them, and 10 000 orks would be standing smiling ready to return Sauron to power...
Dragon riding wraith?
Warren Chaos They can use the Nazgûl.
Matti Mcfc or they’d get taken down by the Ringwraiths and their fell beasts
Eagles wouldn't go to Rivendell for fear of being shot down by men.
John Dough you know that the eagles are not just flying birds right?
1:33 It said in captions *Elrond saying Mordor like a boss*
Pippin has the most important role in the Fellowship because no one can fight with an empty stomach🫠
Fly a bug into Sauron and blind it for a while.
This is an Eye of fire right, so all bugs and birds would burn before they would touch it hehe :). But more seriously, it would require some serious magic mojo to actually limit his far sight (some sort of magical shadows for example). As the book tells us "His Eye is all round but it attends to some places more than others" and he can clearly see through all sorts of obstacles, add to that a palantir and he can look not only further but also contact with other stones.
I see allll.. .. ah. Ahh ahhh .. someone get me some lava quick it was a dragon gnat need to wash out
Ohh he has x ray vision hmmmmmm .... Hmmmmmmm
@@palebluedot7435 Wow.. this was so bad. I have never seen that kind of comment beneath such as @fantasywind. I mean, what were you thinking?
This differs so much. It´s like a professor talks about technology, giving quotes from legendary people. Then this Kindergarden toddler comes up saying "I saw lightning last night. Was it Hercules Dad or Thor who made it? They make electricity."
@@fantasywind3923 It would be easier to get Sauron to willingly stop looking:
Step 1: Find the most cursed images on the internet
Step 2: Somehow project them all into the air on the border with Mordor
Ste 3: Sauron sees them and screams "AAAH WHY DID I EVER THINK THIS GIANT EYE WAS A GOOD IDEA"
@@vigilantsycamore8750 hehehe maybe :). But that's the point with dictator figures they always want to have everything under their surveillance :). Sauron additionally wants to establish control over minds and wills of his subjects (that's one of the reasons why he made the Ring in the first place), joking aside the major plot point of the books was to distract and draw Sauron's attention AWAY from Ringbearer, otherwise there would be no hope, hence Aragorn making contact through palantir and riding out to the last battle at Morannon, those were means of deception for as Gandalf said:
"For if he had used all his power to guard Mordor, so that none could enter, and bent all his guile to the hunting of the Ring, then indeed hope would have faded: neither Ring nor bearer could long have eluded him."
We have examples such as that of Galadriel that Sauron strives to 'see' minds of his enemies:
"But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed! '
She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood."
And later this episode:
"And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him; almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir he threw himself from the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood.
He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!
The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger."
“MORRRRRRRRRRRRRDOR”
The Film Theorists Official I’d like my virus in blue please
but i already have 2 D: i don't need more
sorry that you can't spell "r"
pls some one make a ring tone of him sayoing that
Lessdor
Middle Earth has three gods, DIn, Nayru and Farore... Wait a minute, wrong lore.
There is no way you cannot watch the extended version it's amazing
Correction on the lore. I love the theory this has always something I wondered about. The Valar werent the gods. They were like archangels. They were below a larger being who created them and the elves and humans and just basicaly everything else except the things the Valar created.
Actually, Archangels are not amongst the higher choirs of angels, the highest are the Seraphim, then the Cherubim, and Archangels are only the second Highest.
Then I still see them as gods, gods are the creators but not necessarily of everything. Sub-gods?
For example, Zeus is a god but was created by his father and mother, he was born into the world.
Gooood point!
Joshua Stevens good clarification. One point though. The Valar could create life. It wouldn't have a soul but would have life. That's a step above arch angels. But otherwise, the comparison is correct.
Thank you greg. Ive never been quite sure on the ranking.
If MatPat does end up making a new spinoff channel for debunking theories, maybe he could go back and re-visit some of his old theories and address fan complaints or mistakes with new research. He's never seemed scared to admit he was wrong before (There's no shame in making mistakes), so why not make it fun?
Except that time he was wrong about one of his for honor shill episodes and blocked out all criticism.
+Matthew Sibbald And how do know that he 'blocked it all out'? Or are you just ranting?
Have you seen a response?
"He's never seemed scared to admit he was wrong before"
Is that sarcasm? I can't tell...
Video we were all waiting for
Tolkien's handwriting is beautiful but after seeing it, I feel less bad about my mediocre legibility. ( Example 5:57 )
Compared to my handwriting it looks amazing
One does not simply fly to Mordor.
… because that would be the end of the story.
YES!
That's a line from the film, right?!
*Reads title*
"Why You SHOULDN'T FLY to Mordor!"
*Thinks*
_Prob because there's an awful in-flight menu_
🤣🤣🤣
i think youll find the salted pork is especially good
Actually in the hobbit book, when bilbo and the company of thorin oakenshield actually did ride on the eagles and the eagles actually DID give them some nice food like salted pork and some other bird poop idk, good joke though lol
Awesome video, and super smart theories
I really love these Film Theory intro. Wish they could come back in the new episodes :(
Gandalf could have said, "Fly, you fools" because in the books when characters talk about running they call it flying. So, Gandalf could have meant 'run you blithering fools'
In the Polish translation this sentence is translated to "Uciekajcie szaleńcy." which basically means "Escape you fools.". Seeing that the Polish version from which that translation comes from (Maria Skibniewska's translation) is regarded as canon I believe that the "escaping meaning" is the meaning that Tolkien intended.
@@retro3264 but as we see with anime the subtitles are kinda badly translated. Same with Dubbed.
I doubt Tolkien read every language his books were translated to. Human error is viable
@@binthvingit992 But he actually did just mean escaping, though.
Fly is norse for flee. It's often used in old english.
Also in german he says "flieht ihr narren " or in short fly (in a run away conext) you fools
I recently remembered that the matter about the eagles is actually settled inbook, as Gandalf relates his escape from Orthanc at Elrond's Council :
'"- How far can you bear me?" I said to Gwaihir [aka Lord of the Wings].
'"- Many leagues," said he, "but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."
Except they literally do fly them......
@@jameslowell9656 he never said the eagles can't carry people, especially hobbits who are much lighter than men, he just said they don't carry them long distances because it's exhausting.
The needed uruk-eagles:stronger and adapt to take burdens
@Bob Smith It's meant to say, they aren't just horses that take people somewhere. The eagles actually give half a sht about the war.
Also I'm pretty sure the wind currents would be anything, but in their favour. Sauron literally created fcking storms.
I think people forget that Gwahir drops Gandalf in the Gap of Rohan, as per request. This means he simply couldn't mention the idea and Gwahir would never do it anyway
It confirm that the eagles, even a lesser servants of gods, Gandalf cant just order them around since the eagles and Gandalf answer to different superiors.
These we're actually kinda nice lines in the intro.... I would totally fall for these 😍
Ok, legit i was actually hoping for a lord of the rings/the hobbit theory last week😂
Taeo same plz make more mat
The Film Theorists stop, you son of a bitch
You forgot the Allfather Eru Iluvatar. He is the Beginning. Those three were just Ainur who became Valar. They are lesser than Melkor before he fell into sin as Morgoth.
I'm sure that's true but that's not overly important for the point he's making. It's not 'The Lore of Lord of the Rings' it's about why the eagles weren't used in that plot point.
It wasn’t relevant to the theory, so he didn’t mention it.
What the fuck are you talking about?🤔
I'm convinced those are just a random collection of letters you put together
Bat'el Shimoni NEEEEERRRDDDDDDDD
The roll-of-the-tongue MoRRRRRRRRRdor at 1:35 really got me. x'D
Actually, halfway through writing LOTR, Tolkien realized the eagles could solve all the problems, so he wrote the Silmarillion just to cover that.
Here's how it would have played out : Sauron spots the birbs from 100s of miles away, calls the Nazgul and the Witch King with their Fellbeasts. Then they would most likely lose the aerial battle.
Excellent points! Even Maiar are worried about having their mortal forms injured.
Or just place Witch King at mount doom lmao he kills all
Quac Tro pfffttt they don't care about Gandalf they love Radaghast cause he has bird poop hair.
hahaha FELL beasts.
I died
Ironic.
I haven't seen an intro this good since The Little Mermaid theory. You did good MatPat
The Film Theorists fake ass niggas can't do anything spam ass idiots go get a job
Well I always thought that legolas could just attach the ring to his bow and fire it into the pit of lava in Mordor
Love the work you put into this video. Got any more LOTR? Going to search for them now.
So that's what channel number 3 will be: "Theory Busting Theorists"?
Matpat please do this
Should be The Book Theorists
Or just, Theory Busters.
PhobosDDeimos Actually, it would be channel 4 because he also runs Game Theorists and GTLive
"Fly" in Gandalf's sentence was probably just "Run" synonym, lol
Damian that's what I always thought
It is, it means "flee"
Pthalo Blue, people forget the phrase Fight or Flight.
Well I know the reason they couldn’t fly all the way erebor in There and Back Again is because the men would shoot the eagles in protection of their sheep.
lol. aule telling yavanna to chill bc they’re going to need to cut down trees is hilarious
9:14 That was Ancalagon the Black,you put a image of Glaurung the first dragon,and neither of the two was killed by Eagles.
Finally.
The One Ring can alter his size to fit every possible finger, as testified in the FOTR movie, when the ring shrinks before Isildur's eyes, from the size of Sauron finger to fit his finger. Size-adjusting to the wielder is a common feature of almost all very powerful artifacts. So , yes, an eagle would have easily able to wield the One Ring and become a flying featerish nightmare.
On a sidenote, this also explain, apart the ability to numb the mind of its wielder, how the One Ring fell from the finger of Isildur first, and Gollum later... he simply enlarged a bit on its own to slip away
But surely it would enlarge to escape the eagle. So that sauron could get it
once the eagle flew near mordor, it totally would. but what better way to travel than by air?
I cant stop myself from wondering how the eagles and that massively huge dragon they killed, were able to find enough to eat without driving a their food sources to extinction.
That intro just proves if MatPat can find true love, anyone can too.
Not to mention, the king of the Eagles, the most powerful of all of them, was killed with a single orc arrow to the heart. Also they don't take the dwarves to the mountain cause they're scared of the farmers that they'll pass cause they'll shoot them, so think, if they, the Eagles, are scared of some farmer with a bow, do you think they'll be OK with going to a land that's filled with skilled archers and fell-beasts?
Like they did in the third movie? I mean they came pretty late, but still entered an ongoing fight. And from where do you got the information that a Arrow killed the King of Eagles? First the King of Eagles is not even in one of the movies or much lore since he early on left Gwaihir behind when he returned to Valinor. Gwaihir eagle known as the Lord of Eagles is not dead either since he was the eagle who led the eagle attack on the black gate.
And even it was the justification...those being scared of back town folk archers is laughable. They are sentient and highly intelligent....and can fly waaaaaay over 250m which was the max range of the most advanced medival bows.
If i had to choose a a justification it would be that the eagles to not solve everything for them cause they just do not want to. They are ancient almost godlike beings who are being asked to fly erands, with possible lethal outcome and nothing in it for them. That is like a kid who asks you to get something of a high traffic high way or run across town to get stuff for him. You would think twice if this request deserves your attention.
The one ring has no power over Tom Bombadil.
Even Tolkein didn't have an exact answer for 'what' Tom Bombadil was.
Mistah Bryan I like the theory that he was the manifestation of the song of the Ainur .
I think the One Ring as it was made by a Maiar has no power those above the Maiar. And as I think Tom is a small part of Eru (living on Arda as a way to experience Arda from within) it would have no power over him and I think it explains his persona and his use of song to shape things around him. This is just my headcanon.
Tom Bombadil must be an even lower power race than hobbits.
Tom Bombadil ruined the Lord of the Rings books for me. He is the devil incarnate. I really fucking hate Tom Bombadil
Unpopular. Opinion. I don't. Think. The. Hobbit. Trilogy. Is. That. Bad.
The movies are solid but there was a lot of unnecessary shit that was added and one book was stretched into 3 films. Some things that were only a page or two in the book were a huge part of the films. But I do think they are still enjoyable and don't deserve all the hate.
The biggest reason is because of WB's decisions (not PJ's; he argued against it) to turn the Hobbit into 3 movies instead of 2. Because of that, and some other bad WB decision (the elf/dwarf love interest is LITERALLY nothing but fevered Fan Fiction from a high up WB exec), it gets the hate it does. But almost ALL of the reasons people don't like is because of decisions made by WB's, not PJ. Smaug was AWESOME, fierce and frightening, and most of the casting was spot on (Bilbo in particular was perfect), though Thorin was cast WAY too young.
As a recovering purist, I agree that the movie are pretty decent. Still love the book, though, lol!
CATwoman 1 I agree with almost all of this, but the Thorin bit. Lol, if anything Balin was the one cast too young, but I can see where you’re coming from. I think Thorin’s more youthful appearance helped with his later arrogance from the corruption of the Gold Sickness.
@@HellHazAtTheZoo I see what you're saying about the movies portrayal of his corruption, but in reality, Balin and Thorin should be roughly the same age, or not too far apart. It had been over two hundred years since they fled as young dwarves from Smaug's attack on Erebor and a dwarf usually lived around 300 years or so. Thorin was AT LEAST well into his middle years and probably getting to be an elderly dwarf that wanted to regain his people's kingdom before he died.
I also HATED having him, Fili, and Kili portrayed with short beards. These particular dwarves were known as the LONGBEARDS. To have a beard that short at that age would have been a disgrace to any self-respecting dwarf. I didn't mind it on Ori, since he was the youngest dwarf on the expedition and it was entirely probable that his beard was still growing out, but the only reason they portrayed Thorin, Fili, and Kili in this way was for sex appeal.
The Misty Mountains modeled on the European Alps?? Dude- I saw half of them on my holiday to the South Island, NZ, just recently!
The weather isn’t that harsh...