Great! As you may know, the sharper the cutting edge, the weaker it becomes. In the case of square ground filing, the ideal Side Plate Filing Angle from the working corner to the side plate is between 85° and 90°. In round filing, full chisel saw chain filing is difficult because the Side Plate Filing Angle inevitably becomes a sharp angle of around 50° to 60°. This leads to delayed cutting on the side plate, which results in a saw chain with significant pull-in, push-back, and kick-back, making it less smooth. Additionally, when the Top Plate Filing Angle in round filing is 30° and the Side Plate Filing Angle is 60°, compared to square ground filing with a TPFA of 25° and an SPFA of 90°, from a strength perspective, both TPFA and SPFA in square ground filing are considered more advantageous. In other words, round filing of a full chisel chain is structurally weaker due to its sharp working corner. When the working corner gets damaged, the cutter cannot attack properly and tends to slip. For semi chisel chains, after regular round filing, if you scoop up the cutting point from below at an angle with a round file, similar to square ground filing, and finish the working corner with a 90° filing angle while maintaining a cutting angle of 50°, you can create a smooth, fast, and strong cutter. Please give it a try!
@@shinichirohida2556 Thanks for this! It's a very good explanation of square chain and how it works. I have avoided doing this for a while but I will make a video trying to explain everything I have experienced with square in the next few days. Unfortunately it will be long and boring but there needs to be more knowledge about this stuff out there.
@@ChainsawUsers I have not tried carbide chain yet but might look into it 1 day. The cut speed from this 46cc saw after going through that is incredible and why I wanted to show it. It will tolerate a significant amount of abuse and still cut well. It's Oregon chain that most people describe as soft and square filed. Most people will tell you this doesn't work but here we are.
@@SawChainTheories At a university here, a comparison was made between the cutting performance of Picco Super, Micro and Duro. In pine wood, the Duro even had the highest efficiency. For oak, the differences were really small. Pine: Super 74.31 cm^2/s, Duro 76.35, Micro 68.43 Oak: Super 66.91, Duro 64.13, Micro 65.22. The saw was MS 250, and the chains were straight out of the boxes.
@@elpolaco7654 Do you have a link to it? I have been curious to try the duro but the price here is a little terrifying Another thing I'm interested in is the cutting speed difference over there between full and semi. It appears in softer woods the difference is really small compared to what I get over here. I have seen a few videos now where SP33G is cutting as fast or faster than 23RS pro in birch
@@SawChainTheories Look for "Impact of saw chain cutters type on cutting efficiency and fuel consumption in timber cutting" by Maciak et al. The differences between a chisel and a semi chisel probably depend on many factors. In some studies, they reach up to 20%. And, for example, in that well-known Vallorbe video/study, if I remember correctly the difference is 8%. Your comparison is for chains sharpened by you?
@@elpolaco7654 Thank you. Anything else relating to fuel consumption / efficiency when cutting? It is something I have been interested in lately. Full to semi on new chains appears to fall in the 13-16% range when new here. I have been able to push some of the semi's to be very close to a new full chisel, but I can also then get a similar gain from them in most cases. The closet I have got in a like for like chain is in 404 where I can get both chipper (B3S) and semi (B3EP) to match 46RS.
It literally cut through a pile of dirt in the end of that branch and then kept cutting. I really don't know what else I can show to demonstrate that it's much more durable than people believe
I always thought square filed chain wasnt recommended for dirty wood simply because it's harder and more time consuming to sharpen. It's kind of a waste of time spending 20 minutes sharpening a chain only to dull it in a few minutes of cutting. The gain in speed isnt worth the time spent sharpening when cutting dirty wood. With round filed chain you can touch it up in the woods quick and easy and get back to cutting much faster.
@@nseric1233 I will share a video of me sharpening this chain in the next few days. It was done on a stump vice while out cutting and demonstrates what it's like to do. With practice and experience it is no harder or more time consuming than touching up a round chain. There is a lot of wrong information about this out there, mostly told by people with little to no experience of actually using this type of chain. I understand it's not for everyone but it's not what most people think it is.
@@SawChainTheories You are way better at hand filing than most, not many people can hand file square let alone on a stump. I'm not very good at round filing, I'd suck at square lol.
@@nseric1233 end of the day I'm nothing special, I just have had a lot of practice. I completely understand it's not for everyone and it's benefits are limited to certain users. I just want to get some actual, hands on experience based information out there. Most of what is said about it is based on people's opinions with little or no experience of using square chain
Square filing/grinding is not recommended by equipment companies (Stihl, Husqvarna, etc.) in Europe, and perhaps elsewhere, because the cutters of such a sharpened chain are better at cutting through protective clothing.
Agree,good video.
Great! As you may know, the sharper the cutting edge, the weaker it becomes. In the case of square ground filing, the ideal Side Plate Filing Angle from the working corner to the side plate is between 85° and 90°.
In round filing, full chisel saw chain filing is difficult because the Side Plate Filing Angle inevitably becomes a sharp angle of around 50° to 60°. This leads to delayed cutting on the side plate, which results in a saw chain with significant pull-in, push-back, and kick-back, making it less smooth.
Additionally, when the Top Plate Filing Angle in round filing is 30° and the Side Plate Filing Angle is 60°, compared to square ground filing with a TPFA of 25° and an SPFA of 90°, from a strength perspective, both TPFA and SPFA in square ground filing are considered more advantageous.
In other words, round filing of a full chisel chain is structurally weaker due to its sharp working corner. When the working corner gets damaged, the cutter cannot attack properly and tends to slip.
For semi chisel chains, after regular round filing, if you scoop up the cutting point from below at an angle with a round file, similar to square ground filing, and finish the working corner with a 90° filing angle while maintaining a cutting angle of 50°, you can create a smooth, fast, and strong cutter. Please give it a try!
@@shinichirohida2556 Thanks for this! It's a very good explanation of square chain and how it works.
I have avoided doing this for a while but I will make a video trying to explain everything I have experienced with square in the next few days. Unfortunately it will be long and boring but there needs to be more knowledge about this stuff out there.
@shinichirohida2556 I admire you for trying to square file even Picco chains. Do you have a better vise yet? 😅
@@elpolaco7654 Yes, for a while now, I have been filing my vise instead of a saw chain. 😂
That's when I use my tungsten carbide chain. It's slower yes but won't go blunt. But that saw and chain is cutting well through the log fast
@@ChainsawUsers I have not tried carbide chain yet but might look into it 1 day.
The cut speed from this 46cc saw after going through that is incredible and why I wanted to show it. It will tolerate a significant amount of abuse and still cut well. It's Oregon chain that most people describe as soft and square filed. Most people will tell you this doesn't work but here we are.
@@SawChainTheories At a university here, a comparison was made between the cutting performance of Picco Super, Micro and Duro. In pine wood, the Duro even had the highest efficiency. For oak, the differences were really small.
Pine: Super 74.31 cm^2/s, Duro 76.35, Micro 68.43
Oak: Super 66.91, Duro 64.13, Micro 65.22.
The saw was MS 250, and the chains were straight out of the boxes.
@@elpolaco7654 Do you have a link to it? I have been curious to try the duro but the price here is a little terrifying
Another thing I'm interested in is the cutting speed difference over there between full and semi. It appears in softer woods the difference is really small compared to what I get over here. I have seen a few videos now where SP33G is cutting as fast or faster than 23RS pro in birch
@@SawChainTheories Look for "Impact of saw chain cutters type on cutting efficiency and fuel consumption in timber cutting" by Maciak et al.
The differences between a chisel and a semi chisel probably depend on many factors. In some studies, they reach up to 20%. And, for example, in that well-known Vallorbe video/study, if I remember correctly the difference is 8%.
Your comparison is for chains sharpened by you?
@@elpolaco7654 Thank you. Anything else relating to fuel consumption / efficiency when cutting? It is something I have been interested in lately.
Full to semi on new chains appears to fall in the 13-16% range when new here. I have been able to push some of the semi's to be very close to a new full chisel, but I can also then get a similar gain from them in most cases. The closet I have got in a like for like chain is in 404 where I can get both chipper (B3S) and semi (B3EP) to match 46RS.
Answer: very fragile especially in the lower part of the tree where all the dirt n grime is housed in the bark !
It literally cut through a pile of dirt in the end of that branch and then kept cutting. I really don't know what else I can show to demonstrate that it's much more durable than people believe
I always thought square filed chain wasnt recommended for dirty wood simply because it's harder and more time consuming to sharpen. It's kind of a waste of time spending 20 minutes sharpening a chain only to dull it in a few minutes of cutting. The gain in speed isnt worth the time spent sharpening when cutting dirty wood.
With round filed chain you can touch it up in the woods quick and easy and get back to cutting much faster.
@@nseric1233 I will share a video of me sharpening this chain in the next few days. It was done on a stump vice while out cutting and demonstrates what it's like to do. With practice and experience it is no harder or more time consuming than touching up a round chain.
There is a lot of wrong information about this out there, mostly told by people with little to no experience of actually using this type of chain. I understand it's not for everyone but it's not what most people think it is.
@@SawChainTheories You are way better at hand filing than most, not many people can hand file square let alone on a stump.
I'm not very good at round filing, I'd suck at square lol.
@@nseric1233 end of the day I'm nothing special, I just have had a lot of practice.
I completely understand it's not for everyone and it's benefits are limited to certain users. I just want to get some actual, hands on experience based information out there. Most of what is said about it is based on people's opinions with little or no experience of using square chain
Agree with you on that no point spending long time to sharpen only to blunt hitting dirt
Square filing/grinding is not recommended by equipment companies (Stihl, Husqvarna, etc.) in Europe, and perhaps elsewhere, because the cutters of such a sharpened chain are better at cutting through protective clothing.