Did Rome Have a Transgender Emperor? The Truth About Elagabalus
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2023
- Did Rome have a transgender emperor? Let's review the sources.
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Link to Mia Mulder's Video on this topic
• Was Elagabalus Of Rome...
In modern historiography, ancient Rome refers to Roman civilisation from the founding of the Italian city of Rome in the 8th century BC to the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD. It encompasses the Roman Kingdom (753-509 BC), Roman Republic (509-27 BC), Roman Empire (27 BC- 395 AD), and Western Roman Empire until the fall of the western empire.[1][a]
Ancient Rome began as an Italic settlement, traditionally dated to 753 BC, beside the River Tiber in the Italian Peninsula. The settlement grew into the city and polity of Rome, and came to control its neighbours through a combination of treaties and military strength. It eventually controlled the Italian Peninsula, assimilated the Greek culture of southern Italy (Magna Grecia) and the Etruscan culture, becoming a dominant power in the Mediterranean region and parts of Europe. It was among the largest empires in the ancient world, with an estimated 50 to 90 million inhabitants, roughly 20% of the world's population at the time.[b] It covered around 4 million square kilometres (1.5 million square miles) at its height in AD 117.[2]
The Roman state evolved from an elective monarchy to a democratic classical republic and then to an increasingly autocratic semi-elective military dictatorship during the Empire. Through conquest, cultural, and linguistic assimilation, at its height it controlled the North African coast, Egypt, Southern Europe, and most of Western Europe, the Balkans, Crimea, and much of the Middle East, including Anatolia, Levant, and parts of Mesopotamia and Arabia. It is often grouped into classical antiquity together with ancient Greece, and their similar cultures and societies are known as the Greco-Roman world.
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (born Sextus Varius Avitus Bassianus, c. 204 - 11/12 March 222), better known by his nicknames Elagabalus (/ˌɛləˈɡæbələs/, EL-ə-GAB-ə-ləs) and Heliogabalus (/ˌhiːliə-, -lioʊ-/ HEE-lee-ə-, -lee-oh-[3]), was Roman emperor from 218 to 222, while he was still a teenager. His short reign was notorious for sex scandals and religious controversy. A close relative to the Severan dynasty, he came from a prominent Arab family in Emesa (Homs), Syria, where since his early youth he served as head priest of the sun god Elagabal. After the death of his cousin, the emperor Caracalla, Elagabalus was raised to the principate at 14 years of age in an army revolt instigated by his grandmother Julia Maesa against Caracalla's short-lived successor, Macrinus. He only posthumously became known by the Latinised name of his god.[a]
Later historians suggest Elagabalus showed a disregard for Roman religious traditions and sexual taboos. He replaced the traditional head of the Roman pantheon, Jupiter, with the deity Elagabal, of whom he had been high priest. He forced leading members of Rome's government to participate in religious rites celebrating this deity, presiding over them in person. He married four women, including a Vestal Virgin, in addition to lavishing favours on male courtiers thought to have been his lovers.[5][6] He was also reported to have prostituted himself.[7] His behavior estranged the Praetorian Guard, the Senate and the common people alike. Amidst growing opposition, at just 18 years of age he was assassinated and replaced by his cousin Severus Alexander in March 222. The assassination plot against Elagabalus was devised by Julia Maesa and carried out by disaffected members of the Praetorian Guard.
Elagabalus developed a reputation among his contemporaries for extreme eccentricity, decadence, zealotry and sexual promiscuity. This tradition has persisted; among writers of the early modern age he endured one of the worst reputations among Roman emperors. Edward Gibbon, notably, wrote that Elagabalus "abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures with ungoverned fury".[8] According to Barthold Georg Niebuhr, "the name Elagabalus is branded in history above all others" because of his "unspeakably disgusting life".[9] An example of a modern historian's assessment is Adrian Goldsworthy's: "Elagabalus was not a tyrant, but he was an incompetent, probably the least able emperor Rome had ever had."[10] Despite near-universal condemnation of his reign, some scholars write warmly about his religious innovations.
LGBT is an initialism that stands for "lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender". In use since the 1990s, the initialism, as well as some of its common variants, functions as an umbrella term for marginalized sexualities and gender identities.[1]
#lgbtq #ancientrome #transgender
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History of the Feminist Movement:
1848 Seneca Falls Convention: Unofficial start of First Wave of Feminism.(Rights to: Vote, Own Property, Speak Freely, Employment)
1869 John Stuart Mill: "Women are subjected to duties in wives and mothers because the whole force of education enslaves women's minds to such roles."
First Wave Feminism: "Women In Jobs, Voting Rights" VS Second Wave Feminism: "Abolish Traditional Social Institutions such as Motherhood and Marriage."
Turning Point In First Wave: First Birth Control Clinic in 1916. Beginning to Move Away From Rights And Towards Women Doing The Same Things As Men.
Second Wave Feminism: Simone De Beauvoir (Socialist, Believes Femininity Is Disconnected From Biology) - She Writes in The Second Sex, "Woman is a female to the extend that she feels herself as such. Some essential biological givens are not part of her lived situation. For example, the structure of the ovum is not reflected in it. By contrast, an organ of slight biological importance, like the clitoris, plays a primary role in it." -1949
Simone De Beauvoir: "Nature does not define woman. It is she who defines herself by reclaiming nature for herself in her affectivity." -1949
Simone De Beauvoir: "Everything helps to confirm this hierarchy in the eyes of the little girl. Historical and literary culture to which she belongs. The songs and legends with which she is lulled to sleep, are one long exaltation of man. Children's books, mythologies, stories, tales all reflect the myths born of the pride and desires of men. Thus, it is that through the eyes of men, a little girl discovers the world and reads therein, her identity." -1949
Simone De Beauvoir: "No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice precicely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction." -1975
Betty Friedman: Author of The Feminie Mystique, 1963. (3 Million copies sold)
She calls Motherhood a "Comfortable Concentration Camp." She says that Mothers/Wives are equal to "Walking Corpses."
Second Wave Feminism starts to argue that: Every Aspect Of Life Is Political and that Gender Roles Are Stifling. According to the Second Wave Feminism the only way To Be Free Is To Reject Those Roles.
Third Wave Feminism: Shulamith Firestone says, "The end goal of the Feminist Revolution must be, unlike that of the First Feminism Movement, not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally. A reversion to an unobstructed pan sexuality Freud's 'Polyamorphous Perversity'- would probably supersede hetero/homo/bi-sexuality." -1970
Essentially, Shulamith Firestone believes in Sexual Fluidity, that Gender Differences Don't Matter, and that Sex Is Arbitrary. Shulamith Firestone argued for Artificial Reproduction, Children Being Born To Both Sexes, Motherhood Should Be Replaced, all to End "Tyranny Of The Biological Family."
In 1970 Kate Millet wrote, "...an end to traditional sexual inhibitions and taboos, particularly those that most threaten patriarchical monogamous marriage: Homosexuality, Illegitimacy, Adolescent, and Pre-and Extra-Marital Sexuality."
Third Wave Feminism extends beyond the idea of the female entirely arguing that Gender Is Entirely Performative and that Gender Is Disconnected From Sex. This is the Foundation Of The Trans Movement.
Robert Stoller, Early Leader of the Trans Movement, Author of a book called Sex And Gender. In 1968 he argued that Sex and Gender are entirely distinct. Stoller's inspiration was John Money, a perverse human being, who founded John Hopkins Gender Clinic in 1965. Money is responsible for The Twin Experiment which cost the life of David Reimer and his twin brother.
John Money: "The Gender Identity gate is open at birth for a normal child no less than one born with unfinished sex organs. It stays open for something over a year after birth."
Judith Butler (Founder of Queer Theory) goes further saying that Transgenderism Is Not Enough. Judith Butler argues for Total Gender Fluidity and for Individual's Pursuit Of Self Definition. She says society has to celebrate and approve such self definition because, "We are not carving out a place for our autonomy - if by autonomy we mean a state of individuation, taken as self - persisting prior to and apart from any relations of dependency on the world of others." -2004
If there is a Fourth Wave Feminism then its tenets are that we are Beyond Gender, Beyond Sex, and that now it's all about Political Power and how we form Coalitions Of The Oppressed Under Intersectionality.
We went from First Wave Feminism, a movement directed towards something, namely Towards Rights, to a Modern Feminism that is Against: Tradition, Biology, Reality, Language, Your Ability To Speak Freely.
The evolution of Feminism is a deevolution. It starts with certain high ideals and it ends with the complete destruction of all roles, sex, gender, all of it. It ends with the destruction of all that in the name of autonomy. But none of that generates anything remotely approaching human happiness, which is why you see skyrocketing rates of simultaneous self identification as lgbtq and simultaneous skyrocketing rates of mental illness and suicidal ideation, specifically in areas that take these sorts of ideas incredibly seriously.
Autogynephilia occurs in both gay and straight men. Elagabalus fits the bill if the stories about him are true. See Ray Blanchard's typography of transsexualism. Fun fact, the transgender activism gang will not want to hear that Elagabalus was AGP.
21:50 Correction, Urania is not Carthaginian. Urania (Οὐρανία) is Greek, and since he calls Athena her epithet Pallas, I think he is indicating another epithet for Aphrodite. He didn't like the warrior so he replaced her with a lover. 1) It fits his hypersexual nature 2) It's consistent with the author's writing style. Also Aphrodite Urania was the version of Aphrodite preferred for this time period and region of Greece.
I don't know if you will read this or if you already did this, but you are probably aware that videos like these that tackle political correctness also attract people that that hate trans people just for being who they are. Some of them are even subscribers of yours (no, that's not your fault or responsibility). You don't have to, but you might want to address them and tell them that you do not agree with their opinion (if one could call it even that). Of course, you can't fight every single one of these cases, but a general message might be an appropriate response.
@@unarealtaragionevole "Urania" surely is a Greek name, but Herodian refers to a Carthaginian goddes (Astarte), filtered by the classical interpretation:
"...he sent for the statue of Urania which the Carthaginians and Libyans especially venerate. This statue they say Dido the Phoenician set up at the time when she cut the hide into strips and founded the ancient city of Carthage. The Libyans call this goddess Urania, but the Phoenicians worship her as Astroarche, identifying her with the moon."
Elagabalus being trans or anything else that falls under the LGBT banner isn’t much of a “win” lol.
The dude was universally despised.
It's not so much a win as much as looking for evidence that trans people have always existed because representation is important. The individual could be a vile excuse for a human being, but if they were this or that and they existed is still evidence that this or that existed as far back as that
@@DeepFleeceheart having people being mental in the head has existed for very long time.. its not a good thing.
if trans stuff is based on " this has been with man for so long" thing then you should ask. why not many more? even before religion and so on.. .and also why is it so important to lissen to mental ill people?.
people who want to cut off their genitals are morons.. am sorry but what other answer did you expect?.. it isnt bla bla gender bla bla. its retarded 100%.
wtf is wrong with you
@@DeepFleeceheart Its just more justification for the entire thing being a massive mental illness.
"Look at all these literally insane evil individuals who are evidence for trans being a real thing"
Especially doesnt hold up well when modern trans people act weird
@@DeepFleeceheart yeah, mentally unwell people have always existed.
@@GAMER123GAMING citation required.
The funniest part about Elagabalus is that when people try and bring him up to talk about "historical representation of trans people" they tend to not bring up a SINGLE thing about his actual reign... Because, I mean, obviously.
Did they ever figure out what was up with that lion, monkey and snake thing?
Trans people in history were never really celebrated anyway, at least not on the scale they demand today. They were tolerated because the transness often had to do with religiosity (shamanic, usually). Depending on culture they often were still bound to some sort of gender roll, they weren't as free as they are today. They were simply people who were different, and honestly probably seen as weird, and they knew that. Today they now demand you accept them or else.
Here’s something to take away from his reign-his grandmother ordered his assassination. Even she couldn’t stand the kid.
Those two things are not inherently related though.
@@khfan4life365 To be fair, that may have been because the lad was a walking and talking political disaster, stumbling from one scandal into the next. I reckon he was proving to be more of a liability than an asset to her.
@@matthewatwood8641yet they exist in every nation on earth and has so in history too.
But making up lies and rejecting science and facts is cool too.
imagine someone who doesnt like you calls you gay and now everyone thousands of years later says you were gay
Uhhh....I can imagine that as someone who was called gay. Some suspected I was autistic too because of my bullying issues. They also thought I qas "sensitive" and couldn't take bullying (little do they know what I actually went through and they'd breakdown into depression). Fuck society.
@@qwmx I found out I was on the spectrum and embraced it... Now I'm an Aspy Supremacist.
I would normally feel bad for him, but knowing everything that he did, he got off lucky
@@scurreith3667 didn’t he grape a v-gin?
@@johnmonteiro5825 he did, but that’s based on the perspective that you actually believe he did, because remember, there’s two interpretations, that he was a mentally ill sociopath, or that ancient Roman politicians spread a bunch of propaganda to demonize his people, it’s very difficult to verify which of the two are true, so he might’ve, but he also might not’ve.
I'm not attacking anyone but I am SO SICK of people misrepresenting history for their own selfish political ends.
I'm 100% attacking transgenderism. Remember that very real disease called gender dysphoria about 8 years ago?
That's like 99% of historical bibliography tho
@Blunderbussy yes sadly that's how it is now.
But I'm old enough to know that it wasn't always like it is now.
@@Thiborfirenz It wasn't always like it is now? That is complete nonsense, my friend. I am sorry, but history has never been factual. Do you believe that ancient historians were collecting facts? No, they based their assumptions on their own politics, what some people who heard about something knew and so on. Do you read Cato and think he is unbiased?
History didn't begin in the last 25 years. It has always been a contentious issue and it is now, with better analytical tools and theories, that can we make a better guess at the past.
Your age is blinding you. Maybe you were more ignorant while young, but things have always been like this.
Glad Someone Actually Have Same Thought
As an anthropologist, I can confirm people always (okay, usually) ignore cultural context. 🙄 Both contemporary and historical...
As an Historian, I can confirm, that only anthropologists use emojis.
I choose to view history through an exclusively modern lens. That way I'm always morally superior.
@@Memovox As a normal person, I can confirm that only historians say "an historian." And apparently treat their title as a proper noun, as well.
As a completely misinformed anonymous person with no expertise in the subject with a UA-cam account, I overrule you both.
@@psychoticmortacarn Ok, normie.
The usual suspects: "There was a trans Roman emperor and Rome was extremely racially diverse!!!1!!11!"
Also the usual suspects: "Rome was a supremacist, colonialist oppressor!!!11!!1!!!1"
lol
Just call them sodomites
Some seemingly contradictory things can be true at the same time. Kinda like how the Soviets were socially progressive for their time(legalized abortion and decriminalized homosexuality) but are still very much authoritarian and imperialistic.
@mutterschwein148 a somewhat poor example as progressivism and authoritarianism aren't seemingly contradictory in the slightest
@@Mutterschweintoo bad Stalin backpedaled hard on them. Not mentioning the "special relocation operations" he pursued
Yes exiling the Chenyens to Siberia is super progressive.
A big note on the use of the word effeminacy in the ancient world that should be taken into account. When we read the English word "effeminate" translated from both Greek and Latin we're not really getting the same context that they would have had. It referred less to literally acting like a woman and more to avoiding arete. An effeminate person is someone who exhibits no virtue. So when Elegabalus wants to "be like the women he lays with" what's really being said is that he wants to be base and degenerate.
Especially when you consider that the word “virtue” derives from the Latin word for man: vir
Of course when one gets into the etymological discussion, there are those who will wrongly take the words and their use as a qualitative attitude towards men and women on the part of the Romans, when no, it's just the way they constructed things linguistically, in the same way a language with gendered nouns will use a feminine noun for, say, a wool hat, and a masculine for a cap. The notion that Elagabalus was simply saying he wanted to wallow in degeneracy strongly reminds me of emperors who wanted to fight with the gladiators.
very helpful comment thank you
@@SoiledWig
Elagabalus DID wallow in degeneracy!
So much so that anything written
about him, except for a brief biography
of his life. No mention of any
accomplishments, words of wisdom,
etc.. Just pure and simple degeneracy.
Ancient wisdom! Women are the cause of degeneracy.
So, to boil it down, there are two relatively reliable, contemporary sources making reference to Elagabalus. Both of which were written by someone who despised him and really wanted to discredit him as an Emperor.
No, there are only two contemporary sources on him, both from his enemies and therefore both not very reliable, also because they rarely coincide (and only one of them tells prurient and absurd stories about his sexual life, the other has nothing weird to say about him from that point of view).
Well, we have the modern day sources, which try to paint him with the "oppressed minority" rhetoric. We really can't trust anyone can we haha.
@@qwmx these 'modern sources' are most of the time stuff elaborated over the elaboration of the elaboration of the words of some professor that has not himself come to rome to excavate some roman artifact (which is that much of a common problem, for every works of expansion that goes deeper than 20 cm underground needs 3 extra months to be calculated as the artifact are cataloged), but is repeating something that has been repeating for years to different classes and may not even really care about what's being understood anymore
it has become so tedious, having to coexist in a world where these ones pretend to know as much as, if not more than, the ones that studied boots on the ground and head in the lab
Could you please mention the two sources?
This is true of a lot of historical rulers. Take Cleopatra VII for example: She was almost completely inbred, murdered all her brothers and sisters so she could have the Pharaoh's throne and then seduced 2 Roman generals to gain more power and ended up losing everything in the end. And yet I see lots of women claim she was a "girl boss" and so inspirational. I'm 100% certain these ladies have no clue who Cleopatra really was...
I don’t think you know what the term “girl boss” means.
Cleopatra was certainly a capable ruler, that much is true.
As for the killing her sibling. Well that is the follies of being a royal.
Killing siblings was just about the most common thing a royal would do , like very common
@@ulforcemegamon3094 Totally agree. I'm just saying that a modern woman shouldn't want to emulate a failed queen. Pick a better role model like queen Victoria or Catherine the great or better yet don't look to politicians at all.
Not to mention that Ptolemaic Egypt wasn't the "Cool Egypt" everyone imagines lol
as a gay man , I am so damn tired of this subject being shoehorned into everything. fine you could argue that Hadrianus was gay(ish) by MODERN standards but again MODERN standards certainly not by his or their standards. People are so quick to categorize people that lived thousands of years ago into modern concepts, that is very wrong and very unfair to the people that lived at the time.
For a crowd constantly preaching about "self-ID" and "prejudice" they sure are quick to do just that. History is history let it stay as is , no need to confuse it further it is already confusing enough.
I love seeing gays get straight to the point
@@debatable1984💀
Why does the fact that you're
🏳🌈need to be mentioned as if you are especially qualified to talk on this topic?
Jesus you people make me mad
People so hungry for validation sure makes us sick.
I can just imagine being one of these senators, come back from the dead and seeing what people made of their writings years in the future. And seeing that their main insult hurled at this Emperor is suddenly seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread. What a mind bender.
Some of the Senators might've off'd themselves if they saw today's world
The first two minutes of this video give a perfect example of what makes your content so great. You present the truth based on what the classical text actually says, discredit those that wish to give false meaning to history based on their modern beliefs, and also give credit others that give facts based on the text even if you don’t completely agree with everything they say. Wonderful work as always.
Channels like this are exceptipnally rare.
You and Meta need serius help.
@@PernerTernerThe reason?
My thoughts precisely, the intelligent approach to tackling this controversial subject area is admirable and inspirational because it seeks to explain the integrity of the source materials immediately. I wish all of humanity could learn to do this when attempting to discuss any topic, especially the highly debated ones. 👏 Hats off to you!
The sources of his "Trans-ness" are accepted without question while the sources about his behavior are ignored, despite being the same sources. Cherry Picking: 101.
i think the point to draw from this is that the actions he is ascribed are so ridiculously heinous, that the possibility of the whole thing being slander with little credibility is very high
@@vaylard9474 The Romans fed people to animals for "fun". They weren't easily made to blush, which makes the reports all the MORE credible. Have you heard of Caligula, Nero, etc...."excess" for an Emperor was nothing new. Believing you can be a "pretty girl" when you have a penis is the most assured sign that you're bat-shit crazy. Always has been ;) "Call me Loreta!"
Yes They did
There is rarely fruit of a poisoned tree worth harvesting - no matter how ripe (affirming) it may seem on the outside,
@@vaylard9474 On the other hand, he must've been pretty bad for people to want to commit this level of character assassination, so it seems quite likely that a lot of it is true, if probably not all. I mean, there must be SOME reason why they hated him so much, and that reason most likely is at least part of all that's written about him.
The make-up = transgender argument killed me 🤣🤣🤣. People seem to have forgotten about Persians and Egyptian nobles and priests. As a matter of fact every royal family men wore some make-up in public to look more presentable.
@mimo.1467 Because he lived in that era. But yes. And we even had metrosexuals in 2000's who were doing the same.
Johnny Depp, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons would be more -- shall we say -- flamboyant examples today. But I think a lot of well-known individuals, who are considered manly men, will only appear in public after taking care of their facial appearances with a bit of whatever comes from a jar or tube.
Me? Well, I wash my face and brush my hair, and shave. Oh. And deodorant, though that's not makeup. But that's all any real man needs to do. Or woman for that matter.
They had to cover up the genetic inbred problems somehow.
It's to protect the eyes from the sun as well
@switchbladeserenade1732 My tomboy friend fell into this trap. Had to work hard to get her back to reality.
I though that I had read somewhere that some of these young men that became emperors and then went mad were sexually abused when they were still very young. This was the rumor of Nero and Agrippina, and I believe Caligula and a male relative. If these things are true, and considering the damage that we know occurs with sexual encounters between adults and adolescents, could it be that power was being given to young men who were already deeply damaged by trauma and that this encouraged them to pursue ever more destructive vices? Marcus Aurelius was one of several in his day that began openly discussing the damages they saw occurring with pederastic relationships to the juveniles involved.
Nero was popular, so popular that many who wanted to be emperors pretended to be him after his death. He was not mad.
Everytime Metatron says he'll discuss any particular topic in a future a video, I add said video to my list of things I can't wait to watch.
I really like how every debunking/discussion video is indeed as unbiased and well-researched as we are promised it will be. No offending or disrespecting anyone, no ignoring any possible evidence from either side, no wild speculation, no egotistical "There's no way I could ever be wrong about this." Just the know facts and what we can logically conclude from them TODAY.
It's shockingly rare and sadly seen as proof of bigotry on the internet these days, but all that kind of unfair backlash does is show how this kind of approach to any topic is exactly what we need.
Mia is a historian and her videos are good quality, great to see the respect shown in this video for her. Hope you enjoy her video!
Thank you for your support I appreciate your comment
R u from brazil? Ur name really looks like one from here 😭
You need help. @@metatronyt
@@metatronyt Let the hate in you go it will not help anyone. Keep cherry picking what you want from history to pus a political agenda if it makes you happy.
I know in China, every time a dynasty was overthrown, the new dynasty had the history of the previous dynasty written up in such a way as to make the last guy into a full on villain. Didn't matter what the previous emperor actually did, the overthrow of his family had to be justified, especially the loss of divine favor had to be explained. So making the prior family seem as evil as possible was the order of the day for the new court historian. Which obviously makes it difficult to get an accurate picture of the final emperor or two of any given dynasty, and could taint to some degree the entirety of the dynasty beyond that. It's a challenge.
I would fully expect every civilization to have some measure of such practice. Heck, we even see it right now, today, in liberal western democracies, where legions of activists constantly edit online sources in real time to make high profile political individuals into cartoon villains or superheroes according to which team they are on. Such is the nature of politics. Bleh.
Also china and Russia literally have state owned paid troll farms trying to spread propaganda.
Literally 90% of comments under news videos are blatantly propaganda.
Ehhh, not really in this case. During the Crisis of the Third Century, numerous usurpers and would-be Emperors tried to connect themselves to the Severan Dynasty for prestige. They just made sure to try to connect themselves to the SEVERANS, not the Syrian family that Septimius married in to. Julia Domna, his wife and Caracalla's mother, was the uhh...aunt I believe of Elagabalus and great aunt of Alexander Severus? I may have that a bit off. But after Caracalla, the line passed over to the Syrian side, and Elagabalus' mother, and then Alexander's mother and grandmother and aunt really ran the show.
The Chinese descriptions of decadent dynasties are hilarious. The description of the last Shang emperor and his lake of alcohol and meat hanging on trees on its banks is just zany.
Makes you wonder what others more recent historical events have been rewrited by the victors...
Does the story of emperor Ai and Dong Xian also fall into this category? Because to me that story really doesn't sound positive at all, despite what so many today claim about it.
I wonder if Metaton will talk about poor Sporus...the slave boy Nero castrated and forced to play the part of his empress after he murdered his real empress in a fit of rage (allegedly). The amount of ppl who think that mess was an actual gay marriage and not an overly powerful man forcing his wants on a helpless kid is extremely delulu. (That poor kid had an pretty sad life :/)
(Or Nero's husband which again was a weird account...)
The weirdest part is that like 3 Emperors afterwards took Sporus as a consort. Like... really, guys?
Probably connections thing, not personal charms...
I've seen people try to claim Sporus was "genderqueer" or a "historical transwoman"
The LGBT community has shown a consistent trend for decades of presenting abusive and exploitative relationships between men and boys as genuine gay love
@@sulphuric_glue4468 what does that tell you. They are mental and need help and not anything that supports their psychosis. All symptoms of the modern world through not existing parenting and real knowledge in schools. And ofcourse the drop of testosterone and other things contribute to such smyptoms manifest themself physically. Just ignore them they will sort themself out, because most of them dont want children the problem will solve itself.
There is a very good novel about Elagabalus written by the historian and archeologist, Alfred Duggan, called Family Favourites.
Duggan’s book portrays Elagabalus as ‘very unusual’ - a cross-dresser on occasion (bearing in mind that as a high priest of a syrian religion his normal mode of dress was wildly different to roman dress), homosexual and possibly bisexual, although Duggan leans towards homosexual, while making the point that this was not necessarily a deal breaker in the rome of the time - if Elagabalus hadn’t flaunted it. Most of Elagabalus’s heterosexual shenanigans, Duggan portrays as his religious and cultural inspired defiance towards the mores of roman society
Duggan does not portray this emperor as transgender but, having said that, when Duggan wrote this novel ‘transgender’ was arguably not a well-known thing.
Duggan also makes the point that some religious cults in syria had priests served by eunuchs, so ‘cutting things off’ was an accepted part of religion there - and Duggan makes the point that using the god’s name as his emperor name indicates that Elagabalus took his religion - and his status as part of the god in that religion - very seriously.
Duggan also makes the point that the victor writes the history and the history is not necessarily accurate in this case. For its time, the novel is very open to the evidence, non-judgmental, seems reasonably balanced and - most importantly - is quite a good read.
One point you didn’t make is Elagabalus’s attitude to the games in the colosseum. While painted as a negative by the roman sources, that arguably contradicts all the terrible things he is accused of in those sources. Thats probably why Duggan’s version treads a more middle ground version, assuming that at least some of this stuff is propaganda, used to justify the overthrow of a very - to the romans, anyway - weird emperor.
But at the end of the day the truth is anyone’s guess.
What was his colosseum attitude? Did he view it as immoral?
@@Clumsy-vp3if duggan suggests he viewed it as cruel and unnecessary and, yes, probably immoral. Whatever the truth he seems to have had a very different code of ethics to the roman romans, which is not, i suspect, a bad thing.
@@tileux Yeah, that's pretty cool if so. Do you know of any source other than the historical fiction that the author may have based it on?
Bruh I was begging the monitor to show me Elagabalus and you did NOT disappoint lmao. The man was unhinged beyond measure and it's hilarious that anyone could consider him a positive representation of anything but insanity.
Tbf people don’t bring him up to say that he is a role model. Only as evidence that gender dysphoria is not a new concept.
Imagine desperately reaching for Elagabalus of all emperors for "representation".
I don’t think they really choose but find interesting evidence.
i mean hadrian was debateable but at least he wasnt one of these emperors that you had to get rid off
Hadrian was just plain vanilla gay, but a top, so he was Kosher by Roman morality standards. Elagabalus was chaotic and highly disruptive of Roman tradition, religion and morality at best, and a degenerate megalomaniacal lunatic to rival Caligula at worst.
@@chazzeo exactly he wasnt a rapist and a kid mad with power there is a whole baggage of other stuff that are disgusting
@@chazzeoElagabalus was a bottom and that’s all I can say. Rome was an empire of tops and bottoms. You could be whatever sexuality you wanted to as long as you, the free Roman, were the dominant top in the relationship. They would likewise act the same if a heterosexual Roman man was submissive to his wife, as women were expected to be submissive and subservient no matter what. To say that the emperor himself was a bottom was probably the biggest insult one could throw in Roman society.
Its bewildering to me that anyone will rally behind a historical figure solely because of an association, real or perceived, with them, ignoring their nasty side. I mean, I'm ginger, and I like seeing ginger people from history, but just because you're ginger doesn't mean you're good. I get that the desire for representation is much stronger for some, but surely the repulsion for their cruel actions must be, too, then?
You mean like the Canadian Parliament applauding a Nazi because he once fought against Russia?
Because you're ginger it means you're _soulless_ , not good. Ignore my name.
" I cant identify with people that dont look like me ", from the same people that spend all of their time calling other people 'racist'
Gingers are really hot!! Sucks when there is too little gingers for flab material other than porn.
This isn't a rally. It is an answer to the question many people asked about.
He was into vaporware. Source: an important modern academic
The last text describing how Elagabalus acted extremely womanly that he wanted to convert into a woman sounded so ingenuine after knowing what else the author wrote about him. It really, _really_ sounds like the author wanted to push one final and grand insult at the end of the passage to someone he seems to hate so much. And there's no consequences for it too - If people hated the emperor's guts so badly that they mutilated him and his mother, then they wouldn't bat an eye at the author misrepresenting the emperor.
This sounds like one big middle finger to the emperor, so I really don't think the last passages is written legitimately.
Almost as if most of the documents we have on him are all propaganda against him. Perhaps he wasn’t as bad as we think, although he most likely still had a screw loose like most emperors.
Let me ask you something: if Elagabalus actually wanted to be a woman, slept with other men, told his lovers to call him a she... then how would Cassius Dio's account be different? What evidence would you believe? Or have you decided that transsexualism is a modern phenomenom and no historical sources will convince you otherwise?
For the record, I have no personal agenda in this, I don't care if some guy that lived 1800 years ago was trans or not. All I care about is the truth, and to me the account by Cassius Dio suggests Elagabalus might have been what is nowadays called trans. The account is very specific about the details and even if some of it is exaggerated it doesn't mean all of it is false. I don't know of any other Roman emperor or other ruler that was defamed in this particular manner. So personally I wouldn't dismiss the account by Cassius just because he hated the emperor
Even today we see people making stuff up about people who already are completely disgusting based on facts.
There were consequences for Citizens that wanted to play the 'bottom' role, so exaggerating his proclivities would make it easier for people to accept his murder.
@@Dowlphinlike cleopatra being sub Saharan African cause “my grandmother said cleopatra was black thus thousands of years of history doesn’t matter”
It's so frustrating to have people, so adamantly, declare things about the dead. They cannot defend themselves, cannot explain themselves, and cannot educate us on their perspectives and standards. Trying to explain or label the past using Modern eyes is so lazy and disingenuous.
That's what makes it easy for them. The dead can't defend themselves, and the only way they can defend is if They leave heavily accounted writings. Saying what it's like back then.
@@yusefwebb9727 even then they still try to falsely label dead people things that heavy writings of their life disprove. They happen to just deny the validity of the writings and call you some form of phobic or -ist for acknowledging it
Now do mustached Austrian painter
@@chazzeo Can't we have too Many receipts on him
And they would say: I'm the fucking Caesar and must not answer to a commoner. Pretorianos! Off with their head!
a british museum really just labeled him as trans…….
1984
Well, if you watched the whole video, he(she?) probably was; so.
@@abdolpix4581 if YOU watched the whole video the answer was “maybe or maybe not” not ‘probably’
You are outstandingly good at what you do, never stop doing what you’re doing ✌🏻
Described by English historian Edward Gibbon as partaking in "the grossest pleasures with ungoverned fury" and German historian Barthold Georg Niebuhr as living an "unspeakably disgusting life."
Man, that can really describe a lot of people these days...😂
@@CthonicSoulChickenbut enough about left wingers
Such a great man was Elagabalus, a terrific figure worth of celebration
@@Jimmyjames738 Imagine to be not part of the top 1 percent and being right wing.... the stupidity of humans never fails to amaze me
Wait, so he WAS LGBTQIAMAP+ after all?
"Yay, this crazy murderer rapist is one of us"
Me; "Weird flex, but ok"
It’s funny because I can’t tell if they mean Elagabus, Ed Gein, Jerry Brudos, Karen White, Richard Speck, Randy Stair…
Watching this it suddenly dawned on md why I like your channel so much - it's your choice of words. So many content creators dumb down their script for the average 5 second attention span. You don't and I love that. It's an asmr experience of sorts - well articulated speech, how I've missed you.
Your videos are always amazing bro. I would love to have you on a guest one day. As I love your Roman history discussions. Their amongst my favourites on UA-cam
"we atack argument, not people" unless you mess up with pizza
Indeed
Pizza is just flatbread with tomato paste that Italians considered garbage until Americans showed a liking of it. Change my mind
@@cjohnson3836 And those overpaid Americans also added cheese.
@@cjohnson3836 what?😂
Mess up facts, "it's fine". Mess up good food, "BURN AT THE PYRE".
Before even watching the video I'm going to guess not.
Ding ding we have a winner!! 😂
Same. Although I won’t lie Nero Claudius did cross my mind with a slight sigh for a quick second.
It was all propaganda by his detractors, who wrote the history.
Yeah no lol let me guess the alphabet people are trying to corrupt history again
Yep same. Can’t wait for ad to end to be proven right
Very well explained as usual. Once more thank you for your profound research and how you present it.
As always, i find your videos both entertaining and educational. I am loving your content!
He speaks so confidently on things he know nothing about.
@@remnantoftheeye5580Bro, he literally showed he went to university and studied this. He's also a translator.
Cross-dressing and telling people to call you madam isn't quite the same as transgender. He was a mummy's boy, and his mother ran the show
I don't disagree with you per se... but i am curious what being transgender is for you in particular
It's a fairly good indication of probable gender dysphoria though.
And yet Twitter people is unable to understand such concepts
@@elisehalflightcross dressing is not the same as being transgender. Isn’t this literally what trans activists have supposedly been campaigning for? The idea that transsexuals aren’t just gay men in dresses but people who want to be treated like proper women
@@ieatmice751 that is a given, that said i asked this particular person their particular take on the definition, maybe you could practice some learning comprehension before refuting points no one is making
There are two types of Elagabalus video I’ve seen on YT
1. Elagabalus was a trans icon omgggg
2. Elagabalus was the cruelest and worst emperor ever
3. Dovahhatty who did both in glorious memed style
Ah yes the common conservative tactic of proclaiming a vaguely defined “liberal” believing some thing exaggerated or even completely made up to make it look like they are literal children, irrelevant to what they actually believe.
A common logic fallacy.
Dovah is the best. Laugh a lot with his videos - that are surprising inspiring at the same time btw.
@@HoradrimBR true the unbiased history is probably one of my favorite if not my favorite period series on UA-cam
shes a historical example of trans people existing in ancient societies not a role model not a trans icon
@@nikcile4034historical example of religious frenzyness and messianic/God complex inherent in Roman Emperors (with a troon twist).
As a fan of both your channel and Mia Mulder’s this was a pleasant discovery amongst my notifications this morning.
Imposing modern prejudices on the past is a fool’s errand but seemingly it’s been the grist (or grift) of culture warriors at least as far back as the classical period. I doubt it will go out of fashion any time soon.
My first introduction to Elagabalus was via Gibbon’s writings and one of the things that struck me about that narrative was the resemblance to portrayals of Richard II, a much loathed character in the centuries following his deposition from the English throne. If the later Edward VI - another religious fundamentalist - had been a Catholic rather than a Protestant, he’d probably also have been the subject of similar agit-prop to Dio’s gossipy accusations.
Indextical. Great word! Thanks for sharing this beautiful vocabulary and this video.
My pleasure
Put simply in Layman's terms Elagabalus was nuttier than a fruitcake, was evil and someone who engaged in horrifying pleasures as noted by Gibbon and countless other historians.
So, a transgender
Edward Gibbon? You shouldn't take him seriously as a historian. His work is riddled with misrepresentations.
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Maybe you should actually read it instead of repeating something someone said on reddit. But we know that's not gonna happen.
@@content_enjoyer4458 that's what I said
@@leopercara3477you do know other people criticizes him besides redditor right?
So the take-away I have here is: It is possible that he was a transgender (as we would know them today), but it is also possible that they were propaganda-like lies, made to villify him and make him appear as a worse person than he was.
It doesn't seem difficult to believe that he was very genuinely despised by people, which would easily fall in line with someone trying very hard to villify his every action, and making his culture and beliefs out to be worse and more different from Rome's than they already are.
It could have been a mix of both. He could have been a religious fanatic who practiced a weird and strange foreign religion who wore makeup and raped a Vestal Virgin, made mockery of the God's and might have been accused of running a child sacrifice network. Saying he was like a woman is one of the biggest insults you could say as a Roman so taking that literally should be taken with caution. Someone who was effeminate was seen as a woman in those times because the Romans were an hyper masculine society much more than even 1950s USA.
@@EpsilonsamaNone of these activists take into account the cultural influences of the time period or even (as Metatron says) whether the authors had met him in person or not. You also have to ask the questions of why and who these authors were that they would write as they did. Because character assassination was common back then and this Emperor was particularly disliked.
Not to mention if anything said about him is true, especially the "transgender" crap, it also means sodomite doesn't remotely fit his character for being too innocent and its a wonder he even lasted 4 years.
The way I see it: he could be a bi, but as stated, I would suggest anyone to disassociate with this person.
Let's say if Hitler was trans, would the woke community be proud of it?
i mean replacing jupiter worship with a carthagian deity tends to have a roman violent response
To all who do not believe the Metatron:
Never apply modern values and ideologies to the past, but always research what the values and ideologies of the culture in question were. If it is not possible to ascertain this, then inform yourself when the values and ideologies you want to apply were formed. You will be surprised.
Thank you, that was very educational for me. Liked and subscribed. Keep it up!
I love how they chose to collectively claim to themselves Elagabalus aka the worst Roman Emperor ever.
I’m part of ”them”, the lgbt, and I think it’s not a bad thing for representation. Lgbt people in real life can be great or shitty just like everyone else. I want universality, not a positive stereotype.
@viktorblomqvist8510 any movement whatsoever would desire to have a positive influence correlated to them. Elagabalus is not the figure you would want by your side. Also I wrote them as in LGBT movement not people...
It is as embarrassing as Buchanan, on most lists as worst president contender, and probably gay by current definitions.
@@viktorfalk1988may I ask why you consider yourself to be part of the lgbt organization/community?
Well I am gay but I ain't gonna deny either that Ernst Rohm is gay and try to say that he doesn't count as "one of us" just because he was a high ranking nazi. I ain't proud of claiming him either but the way I see it, it was a well-known fact that he's gay and I would only look worse by trying to deny it and make it look like I'm trying to hide something and have an insidious agenda lol @@joao.fenix1473
I appreciate your videos more and more. I've never dived deep into studying the Roman Empire. I've focused my studies on the people who lost their lands to the Empire; mainly my ancestors: the Gauls, the Britons, and the Germanic tribes. I've been learning so much from you in every video. You have brought up particular, individually named people, with whom I'm unfamiliar. Anyone who thinks that history is a dry, dusty topic needs to watch your videos.
I like learning history about everyone ancestry family origins and history about battles and wars.
As soon as I saw this video and it started I immediately thought "man, he should really watch that mia mulder video and talk about that one!" and you already did. That's nice. :) She has a really nice channel.
Thank you so much for speaking the truth! I am really hoping that you will make that Tolkien video soon! Love from Norway!
As I learned when I tried explaining how the concept of categorizing sexuality as identity is a modern idea, a lot of modern people can't wrap their heads around the idea that people in the past (as well as in different places, even today) thought differently than we do today. Some people (unfortunately the loudest people) just have to apply their modern ideas on people from the past, posthumously applying modern categorization of identity to them.
I think most people have always been unable to place themselves in the shoes of others. However, we are supposed to live in a more "enlightened" and "understanding" time. Based on what I see every day, most of humanity is just as self-centered and prejudiced (not to be confused with racist or any -ism you're thinking of) as ever.
Parenting styles as dictated by do gooder 'experts' from the late 80's on in my view contributed to creating even more self centred/entitled people who refuse to even countenance opposing views than ever before. What was once labelled a spoiled brat who'd at least be chastised by society when parents refused is now 'poor dear with mental health issues who can't handle no, so we should just give into their every whim'. Slippery slope that began with 'any corporal punishment is physical abuse' (just like words are now violence even 'genocide') and went from there. Thankfully not everyone listened but far too many did and we see the results.
she referred to herself as a women wore womens clothing asked other people to call her a women asked a doctor to give her a vagina there really is no other way to interpret that hon its pretty fucking clear
It's simply, communists like to rewrite history. Every communist regime did it when rising to power, so why would the self identified communists not do it today?
@@tkps I think explaining the change in the political and philosophical landscape is a lot more complicated than saying "It's because people stopped beating their kids", but yes, changing parenting styles is most likely part of it, though I see it as more of a symptom than any ultimate cause.
It went from understanding to straight on lemme self insert all my things onto this and that.
0:00 Introduction
2:30 Methodology
3:40 3 Primary Sources
5:30 Temporal Relevance
6:05 Propoganda or Empirical Evidence?
10:35 Gender Dysphoria and Sexual Ambiguity
20:38 Religious Fundementalism
22:56 Conclusion
Might be worth Copy + Pasting this into the description. I like when structured videos like this use that feature, makes it easier to reference in the future.
Seen "China's Most Bisexual Dynasty - Han Emperors and Their Male Favorites" by
Xiran Jay Zhao?
Found this channel from the sniperwolf drama, and happy I did. good work my man
Thank you and welcome!
The part about murdering anyone who disagrees is probably seen as positive by some of the people who claim kinship with him. But those are called extremists for a reason.
"Controversy" aside, it's always interesting to know where rumours like this one originate from. There are certainly similar cases, not necessarily "politically" oriented (I dislike mixing politics with hateful discrimination, but that's the term people use these days), that you could explore.
Blame the people who made hateful discrimination a valid political opinion and platform.
Things like being trans or Homosexual is often very hard to prove for historical people, especially ones that lived thousands of years ago because our modern understanding of such thing is very much a modern understanding. Other cultures have and do see things very differently, also we can't be entirely sure the sources are telling the truth or making things up for their own reasons.
That is why they LOVE to use history to find victims for the ideology. They know it is extremely hard to prove it or disprove it. And it is quite lame of them.
If trans is so common, we would have seen way more cases and writings about it, but there is none.
They have misuse the history of the singular they.
I have shown them prove they are wrong on how it was used but they just don't care.
But it is also important to avoid erasing the similarities that exist between ancient and modern understanding. Roman doctors wrote about men who seek s*xual contact exclusively with other men, and created subcategories fot these men based on their effeminacy or masculinity. According to historian Byrne Fone, the way they describe these men is remarkably similar to the way such men are described in the modern period. So while there were differences in language and understanding, there was at least a mental concept for men who are attracted to men, as opposed to women.
The story of Heliogabalus has always entertained me, since he seemed quite unhinged even for a Roman emperor. But I would have never thought that anyone would try to pick him as a LGBT representation figure, let alone as an example of "Roman tolerance" (you didn't mention that even the name Antonius was banned for emperors after Elagabal's reign 🤣). But it's an interesting idea that this might be just a fake accusation by his senator haters who were trying to incite a rebellion. Still, even if those Vestal virgin and Punic goddess stories are the only true ones, that would be enough to piss off people.
no one cites her as a example of "roman tolerance" we cite her as a historical example of trans people existing in ancient societies not as a role model shes a roman emperor of course she did fucked up shit thats what youd expect from a roman emperor
Elagabalus being one of the least mentally stable emperors, in a profession that had many that were mentally unstable, quite accurately describes the modern LGBT movement
@@FarleyHavelock_III Most insane people aren't LGBT.
@@0816M3RC Moot point
@@0816M3RChealthy people don't tend to cut their junk off
Yet again loving the vid balance is key.. Shout out to the other noble one's
Thanks!
We need more UA-cam channels like yours. It seems as though people have completely thrown out primary sources off the window
So many times as a reenactor I get questions about modern concepts in historical settings, eg were shieldmaidens real, were gay people a thing in the 9th century etc. The answer I almost always give is "sort of, but certainly not the way you think they did becuase you're trying to apply a modern cultural mindset to a past that was very different." There are always variables and nuisance in history Depending on what time and place you're talking about but it would be a gross misrepresention of history to apply what our modern cultural norms are now to historical ones. I also believe that is important to understand what those norms were even if we do disagree with them in modern times becuase if you don't know where you're from then you don't know where you're going.
A really good take. As someone who is interested in anthropology I often encounter different expressions of gender, but while not traditional European gender roles they equally don't map on to LGBTQ expression either. It is very important to accept different cultures and individuals within not as props but people embodying their views and societies.
Maybe a better question would be, how might people have conceptualized same sex romantic/sexual attraction during this time? Were there some contexts where this was acceptable? If it was stigmatized, what form did that stigma take? Or, do we have documentation from this time of people presenting in gender non-conforming ways, and if so, what was the context, and how was it received?
Because on one hand, you have people trying to label various historical figures as "gay" or "trans" which is often not applicable. But on the other hand, you also have people acting as if every single human throughout history, up until now was "strait" and "cisgender" (which are also modern categories), and that same sex attraction was did not happen to anybody until the 20th century. And to me, this assumption seems just as much of a projection, if not more so.
As a Russian (we used to have vikings rule us and leave traces in local folclore) on shieldmaidens: tough times need strong people. Sometimes more strong people then there's men. So, women had to fight too at times. Only our aristocracy and only in periods later than vikings could afford women not to work physically. So, women doing typically unwomenly things including leadership, combat or typically male very tough labour is quite normal - well, if she has to, needs to or wants to, she sure can. It's not that it's any close to a majority - but a normal sight. They may also adapt masculine dress and behaviour, even cross-dress sometimes. Separate characters in the society may comment on it, she may comment on them. Many of characters like that have male boyfriends or husbands, sometimes kids. That's it.
I am often reminded of the novelist's claim, "The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there." That applies even to the recent past. If you look upon some thinker or writer of the 19th or early 20th century with esteem, it's best NOT to enquire too deeply into what he or she thought or said about everything, as you WILL be repelled by something.
@@calliope6623Funny, how they say gays and lesbians didn’t exist until the late 20th Century, but want to go and condemn gays and lesbians for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Abrahamic faiths, like did we exist in the past or did we not? You can’t have it both ways.
As someone who is watching on an LG TV, i see this as an absolute win
A fellow member of the LG TV community, I see.
Dehumanizing people is fun.
@@AL-lh2ht don't be a telephobe.
I don't know what to say. There is so much i don't know about ancient Rome. My knowledge is minuscule in comparision to yours. Great video. And great example how to work with the facts and logic. I watch your videos for some years, but this is one of the best. Thank you and i hope for more of this content in future 🙂
It's like someone in 500 years seeing an online discussion thinking it's between actual assholes because the insult is thrown around.
So as usual, it boils down to: "maybe yes, maybe no."
Like with all historical sources, we have problems interpretating them, because we are lacking the contextual knowledge of the time.
A bunch of the other comments are like “libtard get dunked on. Definitive proof. My justification for hating gay people has been fully justified”. Lol
Exactly
I like how they are trying to claim the literal worst emperor as one of their own.
Didnt they do that with the babadook and IT? Or Jeffrey Dahmer?
not literally the worst, the others doomed the entirety of rome
I mean he does seem like he’d fit right in with that lot.
I don’t those concepts are inherently related.
Not even close to the worst. Caracalla almost single-handedly destroyed the Roman Empire after his father saved it. Set the whole thing on a collision course leading to the Crisis of the Third Century, killed his brother in front of his mother, had people executed for the slightest criticism, destroyed the idea of Roman proto-nationalism by giving citizen rights to all people of the empire, doubled soldier pay (after his father doubled soldier pay) giving individual generals enough wealth and power to rebel successfully, while also removing the incentives to join the military for non-citizen Romans, which in turn gave those same generals the troops they needed (now without fear of non-citizen reprisal; crucifixion) to rebel successfully. His doubling the wages (and massive donatives) are why he needed the larger tax base. He was with his father on campaign when Septimius died, and Caracalla (and Geta was there) turned around, not finishing off the punitive campaigns against the Picts. This in turn led to a legion getting ambushed, much like the infamous "Lost Legion" 150 years earlier, but at least this time they weren't wiped out.
Caracalla was so much worse.
Great video and a banger outro music!
In spite of the matra, “We’ve always been here,”
The fact is, the modern concept of transgenderism just wasn’t a thing until very recently.
Tell that to two-spirits Native Americans or hijiras in India, bro.
Two Spirit is a term that was invented in 1990. Show me a Native American tribe that used that term. @@artemidealmeriabaraldi
If they admitted that, they would have to face reality that what "makes" them is totally environmental. Not genetics.
Is this why men are thinking about the Roman Empire so often?
Great video, as usual.
Great video. Honestly, when I saw some of the source material people were referring to I had my doubts. I mean Roman political slander was pretty far out. I think Marc Anthony even accused Augustus of prostituting himself to his uncle which is absurd considering the personalities involved.
Excellent video as always, brother.
Thank you for giving a more objective view of history. It is appreciated.
INB4 some far leftist calls Metatron "biased" and hateful and then recommends a video that is full of sophistry.
I HATE BREADTUBE
I HATE BREADTUBE
I HATE BREADTUBE
I've seen people say they don't like him anymore because his video on gayness in ancient Greece used "bad cherry picked articles" as evidence that there is no real proof for it, as if buzzfeed and the rolling stones are any better of a source lmao
@@h.w.4482 They always say it's cherry picking even when we provide manifold sources. Those sophists don't even accept evidence of they are not "peer-reviewed" as if they aren't as biased as news articles, which is not true. There are plenty of videos are there that over 50% of papers and studies in the fields of either science or social science have replication issues, including but not limited to Teal Deer (who is only on other platforms now).
Yes this vague “liberal” we keep hearing about.
@@AL-lh2ht Read it again. I specifically said "far leftist". That's not being vague.
I'm sorry to say that if TRA's cannot accurately analyze and disseminate the quite recent histories of Dr.John Money and Dr. Alfred Kinsey, I have no confidence in their ability to reach back a few thousand years. I see a pattern of ignoring pathologically abusive behaviors in the characters they hold up as historically relevant.
...apparently, you need an extra large basket for all the cherries around this subject....
Seen "China's Most Bisexual Dynasty - Han Emperors and Their Male Favorites" by
Xiran Jay Zhao?
What's funny is they're praising those two as some sort of saviors, like they contributed to society, while all they did was sick experiments on little kids
I’ve only seen him held up as evidence that gender dysphoria isn’t a modern phenomenon like some people claim but existed throughout history, not as a savior/model human being.
shes a roman emperor i expect her to do terrible things but thats not related to her being trans an the delusion that we trans people are some new thing is just that a dilution its straight cis people thinking theyre the default an that everything else is just deviancy or unnatural when the reality is we always existed an only recently has it become safe enough for us to start walking back into the light an not hide who we are
@@nikcile4034 Have you not listened to the video at all??? Him being trans is a modern concept.
He was described as a "normal day trans" to make a mockery and make the people of his empire hate him even more (and he was as his mothers and his death was brutal). Rome wasn't some pro LGBT space. Most civilizations weren't.
And yeah, gender dysphoria always existed, I don't think anyone is denying that lmao.
And we are the default, because if we weren't, humanity would have went extinct already. Nothing wrong from deviating from the norm tho
Aaaawwwwesome video. Loved the conclusion. Thanks very much, Metatron.🤘
My pleasure. Thanks for watching
I was just reading about Heliogabalus last night!! What a coincidence!! Cheers man!
Good lord, I love this channel. I really hope the idiots that try to demonize/flag/de-monetize channels like this learn to just pick on people who actually don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. I’m never going to understand anyone who wants to erase and rewrite history, as opposed to just teaching what the hell happened.
I appreciate that you have a hard time understanding people who avoid an emphasis on what actually happened because you probably value truth. Unfortunately, finding people today who value an agenda above truth is like finding sand at the beach.
Everybody knows Juliana Caesar was the greatest champion of trans rights.
occide! (slay!)
The Queen of Bythinia
Et tu, Cis Brute?
So was Nero
Lmao, he got frisky with the lord of bythia
Tried to watch u before... couldn't get into it.. idk why ...great stuff man.
To be fair, in my old videos I would never get to the point. I think I got better. Thanks
Keep up the good work noble pne
Yes. Thanks for covering this. I was hoping you'd clear up the confusion
It's not confusion. Just body type the doctors choose for you at birth.
@@jesuslovesyou-mattsmith1502bait lmao
@@jesuslovesyou-mattsmith1502
hahahahahaha you guys are ***** ** ********* .
Example: Mongolia, (present): women get pregnant, men impregnate women. and that's it.
-
Enjoy it while it lasts, all empires fall.
@@jesuslovesyou-mattsmith1502I'm talking about the people who think he is Transgender and those who don't believe it. Hence the confusion
@jesuslovesyou-mattsmith1502 what
I'm glad you were talking about him! As someone who was identifying as trans as teenager, but don't such anymore, I wouldn't want future generations to debate my pronouns only on basis my teenage experience. Could Elagabalus have gender indentity issue? Yes, he could. But we cannot know if he would label himself as trans or not. I wanted transition as teenager - I don't anymore. Even if Elagabalus truly wanted srs when he was let's say sixteen, it doesn't mean he would still want it having 26 years old, if he lived to such age. Some people have such severe gender dysphoria that transition brings them peace - but for others gender identity issues are just as phase. PHASE. We cannot know wheter Elagabalus would tranistion as adult in modern world. He could - or he could grew out from it. Calling him "Empress" by modern creators is moronic.
I am so glad that you managed to get out of the cult with your body in tact.
good for you
@@wormwoodcocktail I was never in cult - none tried convince me of anything, there were just things I had to figure out about myself, and many of them I still have to. Having gender dysphoria isn't cult - it's neurological disorder. But having gender identity issue can be related to multiple things and multiple issues, that are not necessarily are gender dysphoria. There is lot trauma in my past that caused my judgement was clauded when I was teen. I still figure myself out. But I know now there is no rush to do anything permanent, I have whole life to get know myself.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518
It’s not a “neurological” disorder, it’s a mental health issue. And yeah, it’s a cult. They shun nonbelievers and murder lesbians.
With that said, glad you moved past your personal traumas and upheavals. I’m convinced a decent chunk of gender dysphoria is some variation of PTSD / disassociation / eating disorder.
Experiencing trauma, psychological issues, angst, and insecurity do not automatically indicate a neurological disorder. Believing in gender has never been shown to be the result of a neurological disorder or developmental neurological process. I think it is self evidently a set of false socially constructed beliefs (which are dishearteningly extremely prevalent in society).
The notion that gender is an ephemeral essence which allows one to transubstantiate an organism of one sex to the other is absolutely religious and culty.
I don't think there is anything offensive about this video at all and it is very solidly made. Metatron went out of his way to treat modern day transgender people with respect and approached the topic even handedly.
The only thing I would add is I think representation for trans folks operates a bit differently than other marginalized groups in that they have to argue their existence isn't some recent trend, much less than a statement about Rome being progressive or inclusive place. So as dismal as Elagabalus was, it's not so much they should be seen as a hero or role model, but merely evidence that being transgender is not just a new made up thing.
Regarding the figure Elagabalus, the 1888 painting "The Roses of Heliogabalus" created by Lawrence Alma-Tadema is one of the more interesting works of art inspired by antiquity.
Actually good point
I do wanna add something, i watch a lot of lefty stuff and some trans creators like contrapoints who makes great content, ive never even heard about this emperor till now, trans lefty’s tend to point to two spirits of North America or whatever they were called as examples of non binary and trans gender people existing for a long time, never heard anything about this emperor, to me this sounds like a tiktok or really young person thing, not in the video essay sphere
This guy removed Jupiter from Rome and put a Carthaginian goddess in its place
HOW THE HELL HE LASTED 4 YEARS?!?!?!?
Was his mother an absolute political genius or something???????
Elagabalus was like both Caligula and Nero combined but even more extreme, I'm surprised that his reign lasted as long as it did and even managed to assume power
He was the grandson of a highly influential woman, who passed him off as a son of Caracalla during a revolt against the usurper Macrinus.
Basically, the reason Elagabalus managed to become emperor is because it was politically convenient as a means to keep his family in power.
Caligula was actualy not that bad, but a blatant cynic
And even then he didn’t call any of the shots. He was merely a regent of his mother.
@@patriciusvunkempen102Nero was not that bad either; the plebeians loved him.
@@darthplagueis13He likely would've been killed earlier had he not adopted his younger cousin Severus Alexander as his son and heir. The people of Rome probably had a collective sigh of relief as Severus Alexander was a very promising boy loved by all. Without such a hope for the future, the Romans probably would've killed him sooner
This is the kind of channel I needed when I was a teenager browsing the web for weird, niche historical facts that were more fantastical than they were accurate or well researched.
Great video as usual. I really would love a ring. Must buy one when I get some money together
Fair and balanced presentation with deep historical context. Thank you Metatron.
Metatron, I value this presentation above any other that I have viewed due to the knowledge and unbiased perspective. I am very conservative, but I need accurate information to soften my interface with all the liberal masses.
I’m glad to hear that my video was useful to you. Thanks!
Thank you for you open mind - at least you see the other side - we all can learn from it.
Ignoring historical context for the moment, the entire question rests upon the presumption that cross dressing is the same as transgenderism which is a hell of a presumption to make. By that logic, every actor who has ever played an ugly sister in the pantomime Cinderella is transgender, which is clearly and demonstrably untrue. Secondly, the entire idea behind transgenderism is that one feels one is born in the wrong body. No one knows what was in someone's mind almost 2K years ago. Again, that is pure presumption. The lack of logical application is why wokeness is a non-theistic religion. The entire thing is belief system is based upon faith.
The fact you think wokeness is a word that means anything beyond “anything I don’t like” is hilarious.
@@AL-lh2ht I could claim the same about your continued vague comments over responding to what's being said. That IS a trope of a looney leftie (as I mentioned earlier) and your comments do appear to be based on a belief system as opposed to any factual argument. If that's not the case maybe be more specific.
@@tkps people who use the word "woke" in serious conversations are cringe, that's a fact
@@elisehalflight People who use "cringe" in any context are embarassing and radiate awkwardness
"People who use radiate non-literally are pretentious"
See, we can go all day like this, or maybe you can just accept that even modern words (or rather, modern meanings of them) are useful shorthands to refer to concepts that would usually take a long sentance to describe
Plus, "anime girls in glass houses... " and all that, just saying
@@AL-lh2ht _"The redistribution of wealth, land, and power along racial and gender lines"_ - the literal definition of "Woke", is a bit on the long side for UA-cam comment. If I was writing a script for a political/culture war programme, then I would go into great detail about the inherent evil of redistribution along racial lines, and explain to you what historical parallels that chilling definition draws. That's the thing about the internet, you never know who you're making sarcastic comments to.
Really excellent analysis. Bravo
Good video young man 👍
So the way I understood this is that the senate guys description of him could (but not necessarily) be interpreted as him just calling elagabalus gay and the derogatory f word just as an insult rather than a clear proof of him being homosexual or not in a very similar way people used those derogatory term only as insult not many decades ago (and are still doing nowadays).
Yes. They were from Transalpine Gaul. Duh
So true
Oh...so like Dracula too?
Transylvania...?
@@anthonyoer4778Vlad Tepes of Wallachia
@@ctam79 that was his cis name...bigot!!!
Amen
as a trans girl myself, thank you for sticking to facts and clearing up the bs!
My introduction to Elagabalus came from the romanticised novel Child of the Sun by Lance Horner and Kyle Onstott which I absolutely love but which I came to understand later falls a bit short of contextual veracity.
Thank you once again for an insightful and thorough look at history in an academic manner!
As far as I understand it, to a Roman of the time to say that a man was "acting womanly" was definitely a serious insult. I understand that this does not mean that Elagabalus never acted "like a woman" in Roman terms, but it would be an obvious insult intended to be seen as bad and just well, not like a proper _Roman_ should behave, let alone an Emperor.
Was it an insult founded on something, or nothing except dislike of Elagabalus' non-Roman ways? I am not sure we can know for certain, one hundred percent.
Even today men and women are given intended insults that they act like the opposite sex - woman are called mannish or men are called girly, and these are not in kind recognition of personal qualities! People still say things like "that's so gay" as an insult, and this is not a new problem.
Elagabalus sounds like a young man with too much power and no controls or brakes on his behaviour, who happens to be bisexual. (I say this because the nature of Elagabalus is the problem, not the bisexuality.) So when he fancies an athlete with apparently the largest endowment in Rome, he flutters his eyelashes and says "Call me your woman, big boy" - because this man has something he wants! In those days a man on the receiving end of things was thought of as "the womanly one" so to get what he's after he's telling him _make me your girl_.
As for if he actually viewed himself as a woman, I doubt it because there are the other references to him contracting legal marriages with women. Dude seemed to really also like sex with women, and I doubt someone who wanted to insult him would have missed a chance to say that he said was a lesbian, on top of everything else.
But to be completely fair, one hundred percent certainty, well, now like most of history, that is going to require a time machine.
Let’s just say he was a bottom, which was very much frowned upon in Roman society. Rome was very accepting of GBT identities, just as long as you, the Roman, were the dominant partner in the relationship. Because of that there were never loving relationships between two free Roman men, but only power dynamics between a dominant Roman master and a subservient, often a slave but sometimes merely a foreign merchant. To say that the literal Imperator himself was a subservient bottom is probably the biggest insult a Roman could make, and would be seen as preposterous in their society.
Agreed. Actually, I would be pretty offended if anyone called me mannish :/
I predict that this video is going to inspire a chain of response videos steeped in sarcasm and sophistry.
Let them come. The video is going nowhere ;)
@metatronyt we will hold the line.
@@metatronytI wonder though how you feel about all the comments expressing hatred of trans and gays?
@@AL-lh2ht I never support hate towards people who are different than me. I just attack the extremist and toxic activists, but I have nothing whatsoever against a gay person or a transgender person who just want to live their lives in peace. I say free agency, free country, free speech and free society.
@@metatronyt lol, explaining plain facts is expressing hatred apparently. Al is unhinged enough to find and respond to every comment they didnt like. just another evening in the mind of an irrational being.
OK but ...
You have to admit that "The Roses Of Heliogabalus" is a beautiful painting
I'd also say that the Historia Augusta is not so much biased, as it is intentionally fictional - e.g. the faked letters from Hadrian, and biographies which are almost entirely fraudulent. As I recall, there's even a biography of a non-existent emperor. The whole book seems to be more of an obscure satire of late Roman politics than actual biographies. Only some of the biographies of earlier emperors are mostly reliable (e.g. Antoninus Pius, another emperor painted in a positive light) and probably copied from a lost text.
Your beginning description of ancient sources was very well-put in order to understand the complexity that is the nature of ancient documenting. We as modern/post-modern readers CANNOT treat ancient sources like we treat modern historical documents, as in, our emphasis on avoiding bias and telling the Truth with a capital T in objectivity to history and how it played out. Ancient minds thought a lot differently than we do. This goes for pretty much any ancient text, honestly, historical or otherwise. Well done!
Bro...Metatron is not afraid of cancel culture, but cancel culture is afraid of him💯
I tell it how it is ;)
@@metatronyt And that's what we love about you!💯💪
Greetings to you Metatron..!
Thank you for this Talk.
I shall show this others..
Seems like the kind of thing that might've started on a blog in 2009, now getting taken seriously by a history museum.