How I Explain the Trinity
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2017
- People struggle with this idea of the Trinity because we can’t quite seem to make sense of the Math. The doctrine tells us that there are three persons in One God. How does that make sense?
Well, part of me wants to answer that question by saying that it doesn’t make sense… at least in the sense that, we can’t make sense of it.
Sense… sense. You know when you say a word too many times and then all of a sudden it’s starts to sound weird to you.
The first thing I would want to say about the Trinity is that this isn’t something that Christians figured out. The Trinity, according to Christianity, is how God has revealed himself to us. Prior to that knowledge, he revealed himself to the Jewish people as I am.
What I love about both of these concepts is how puzzling they are. They aren’t the kind of thing that a person would make up. If we were going to come up with an image for God, it would be something more like a Greek god. In Judaism and Christianity, we seem to encounter something or someone that is unexpected and the unexpected is exactly what we should come to expect if we were to encounter God.
When we think about God, we need to be vigilant in reminding ourselves that God, by definition, is infinitely more advanced than any concept that we could fit into our capacity for reason. In other words, we’re not smart enough to make sense of God. Therefore, God is a mystery and that makes perfect sense.
The Trinity is one of those few descriptions of God that conveys that same sense of mystery.
Some people look at that Trinity and say, that’s a contradiction. You can’t have three persons in one God. My answer to that is, how do you know that? Are you so sure that you have such a complete understanding of what defines the scope of a person so that you can definitively say three cannot share the same essential divine substance while also being distinct as persons?
I wouldn’t be so bold to make that claim especially baring in mind that we’re dealing with a God who has unlimited power. Are you saying that he couldn’t make that work?
The other reason I think the Trinity is such a compelling portrait of God is because Christians, and even non Christians, are so fond of repeating the phrase that God is love.
Now, I’m not totally sure if I know what most people mean by love, but for Christians, Love means an outward disposition that aims to achieve the good of another. It means that no matter who you are or what you’ve done, I want the best for you and if I can, I’ll do my part to realize it for you.
So, love, in this sense is always focused on someone else. When we say God is love, we’re not saying that God has love or the potential to love, but that he IS love. His energy and activity are constantly pouring out from himself towards others in the pursuit of their wellbeing.
If we want to believe that God is Love, then we’re left with a big question. Before God created the Universe and the creatures that inhabit it, how could it have been possible to say that God is Love? How was this dynamic energy given and received unless there was a multiplicity of persons to exchange it?
The Trinity portrays this exact eternal exchange of love. The Father begets the Son and loves him. The son reciprocates that love and their Love is expressed in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity, to my knowledge, is the only option out there that offers a satisfying glimpse of a God who is Love.
Please comment with your ideas about the video and if you find it interesting, please share it and subscribe.
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Wherever there is love, there is a trinity: a lover, a beloved, and a fountain of love.
St. Augustine of Hippo
paul andres - yes, Mary, the Mother of God is the fountain.
A father, mother, and son. She IS the Holy Spirit.
@@chris-solmon4017 no she isn't
paul andres BULL!
God has no mother! NO ONE is before God!
OurHumbleLife when people like you speak( it’s what you guys are saying) it’s smells bs. Like a broken record player, not from clarity, peace, beauty and love( GOD)☹️😖
I'm a born again protestant Christian, but I love this dude. keep sharing bro.
Same
The God is love explanation just blew my mind! ❤👍
Jesus is not God. The Teaching of the "Trinity God" is man made.
@@Tessinentdecken That depends on what you mean by "man made". The term itself? Definetly. Yet the idea is deeply rooted in the New Testament and beyond if you take a look at Genesis.
@@Joh-jf5kc who came up with the idea of the Trinity and in what year?
@Summer Daze I like your humour. 👍😂
Awesome. Also family which extends itself outwardly into the world yet still contains all of whom created a person. Or the conscious being able to know its self, see itself from outside itself and also contemplate it's being in the past all while still physically present.
Very good points never thought of it this way...
Amazing. Love how you explained this.
It's pretty beautiful to contemplate, even though we can never quite understand it. Love your videos!
SquirrellyFries The Bible says that God has clearly shown us the Godhead so it's not suppose to be confusing and difficult to understand.
Romans 1:19-20
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and *Godhead* ; so that they are without excuse:
God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One person, but he has three roles or titles, kind of like how someone can be a father, brother, and uncle. One person, three roles.
God's roles:
Father-he is our heavenly Father and our creator.
Son-he became flesh and died for our sins.
Holy Spirit-he guides us and leads us to the truth.
NJ B While it is true that God has revealed himself completely to us in the person of Jesus, it is pure vanity to think that our limited human minds can fully wrap themselves around the nature of the infinite God. We only know God is Trinity because he revealed it to us, not because we came to it from our own reason.
The view of the Trinity as you describe it is called Modalism, and it has been condemned by the church as a heresy since the 3rd century.
SquirrellyFries I used to be a trinitarian for years. Here I'll explain why if Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit yet he always refers to the Father. First read this verse which proves he is all.
Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Here it is very clear. Now to the question of why Jesus refers to the Father and even prays to him. So me and you can both agree that Jesus is both man and God. Jesus had a perfect “dual nature”. He was fully God (the Father) when He healed the sick, raised the dead, delivered demonized people, calmed the sea and wind, multiplied the bread and fish, put a coin in a fish’s mouth, turned water into wine, etc. He was fully Man (the Son) when he wept, thirsted, hungered, slept, etc. In the Garden, His flesh (the Son) cried out to the Spirit (the Father) to be delivered from what was coming. Because of Him being God, Jesus knew when He would die, how He would die, where He would die, etc. While being God, He could handle that (and everything else…), but as Man, His flesh rebelled against it. The prayer in the Garden was to put His flesh under subjection to the Spirit. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other “persons.” This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.
``Kind of like how someone can be a father, brother, and uncle´´: someone could be the father OF his son, the brother OF the other brother, and the uncle OF his nephew. Three different titles, of course, but only about his relationship with other persons, not with himself (nobody could be their own father or their own uncle, as an example).
If Jesus is the Son, necessarily he is the son of someone, and that means that he is loved by someone who loves him like a father loves his son: ``I have loved you just as the Father has loved me´´ (John 15, 9-10).
The same dignity by the same divine nature, even though not all the Persons in the Trinity do the same actions and have the same role, as someone and his son have the same human dignity (both of them are human persons), but have in other way different roles in the love (as Richard of Saint Victor explained).
Your profile picture makes me happy
Bro, as long as you are working from the vantage point of love, they will come to see the light of Christ.
My religion teacher tought us, that 3 people are the necessity of total and pure love. One person, and it has love for itself, selfishness. Two people, and you have love for eachother, eros. Three people and you have pure love, the love to share.
And how does it prove that God is three persons?
Jesus said that the only true God is His Father and He, Jesus, is the Son OF God. John 17:1-3
They're not trying to prove anything, just simply sharing something that their teacher taught them. If you're looking for proof, you won't find it in UA-cam comments...
The Catholic understanding of the Holy Trinity is the only one that makes sense.
I think the Filioque does create a little bit of problem
@@ShaharIshog-lx7pi why?
☦️
ua-cam.com/video/HwGBQaafIaU/v-deo.htmlsi=OPXUOAa07qaeWLlN
It isnt even in the Bible..this Apologist does understand Ancient
this guy is great, beautiful video!
That's a good point you make. I never thought of connection God being love back to The Holy Trinity, but it makes complete sense. Before everything, God was/is, and God is also love. You can't have love between something and nothing, so there has to be another part of God's being for him to BE love. Really makes you think. Thank you for such deep reflection
Thanks. I'm glad you got something out of it!
I loved the video so much Brian, thank you so much, its like you opened my eyes to a new truth.
#JustMyThoughtProcess
Can you divide infinity? The answer could be [∞/3]. Does each part become finite? I wouldn't think so. If you add them together, do they become something bigger than infinity? I do think, infinity times 3 is still infinity...
That's because infinity, as it is attributed to God's eternal nature, is not a number or a quantity. Mathematical equations applied to God who has no limit or quantity are futile.
I have a question?
Is there any other persons in The Trinity other than The Father, The Son, and Holy Ghost?
For example:
Is The Burning Bush from Exodus 3, Pillar of Cloud by Day & Pillar of Cloud by Night from Exodus 13, Man that wrestled with Jacob from Genesis 32, Angelic Man that spoke with Abraham from Genesis 18, etc.. Are these included within or outside of The Trinity and do these persons of God have their own thrones and is their scriptures to back up the answer for these separate persons of God?
Great video! ☘
Jesus is not God. The Teaching of the "Trinity God" is man made.
An Irish lay theologian of the 50's and 60's was Frank Sheed. He has a very great description of the Trinity. We know that God can create persons that are not Himself nor of the same 'God-Nature'; because that describes us and the Angels (human and Angelic persons). Before God created us or anything; there was only God. God had only ONE eternal idea and that was of Himself. That idea was so perfect it was a person like Himself (remember God can create persons); but being as eternal as Himself it was not created but eternally generated and of the exact same God-Nature (since there was nothing else). Likewise the Holy Spirit was the Love eternally generated between the two persons in the ONE God-Nature. That is three Persons in one God; not sharing the Divine Nature but each being FULLY God. That is how we are mono-theists yet hold to the Trinity.
Nothing but philosophical jargon. If you believe in a trinity doctrine, you are not monotheistic😌
@@leahjames6870 That was simply a non-biblical way to explain it. There is plenty of proof for it in the bible.
Why stop at three one might ask…
@@peasantarcher9807 There is no theorectical reason or logical reason to stop at three. The reason we stop at three is because this is what has been revealed to us about the Triune Nature of God.
That there is a God is plainly deduced from logic and our understanding of existence. That there is only three persons in the one Godhead that has existed for all eternity is what has been revealed to us via the personal interaction we have had with our Creator throughout our history.
@@39knightsI’m sorry but this explanation is ridiculous when we consider what is at stake here. Whose interaction throughout history? The Jews, who came before you, are adamant about their rejection of the trinity. The muslims, who claim to have come after you, find it just as blasphemous. NOWHERE, is it mentioned in BOTH testaments and yet I will burn in eternal hellfire if I don’t believe in it. Think about it, God will judge me a bad person if I don’t believe in a doctrine he HIMSELF has never mentioned in his own revelation explicitly. What an evil god that would be…
God bless you, young man!
God bless you and your family sir and thanks for this wonderful video 📹 🙏 ❤️ 🙌 😊 💜 📹 🙏
It's awesome and amazing 👏
Why would God be defined by the limits of human understanding?
Why would God pray to himself?
Good question, maybe because we are limited in a way?
Whatever analogies you may use, the trinity is not supported by the scriptures and is the most absurd doctrine in trinitarian Christianity. We can only assume that it crept into Christianity from Paganism, possibly to placate the new pagan converts whose worship of multi-gods could sit comfortably with three gods. If the early Church fathers had known what they are getting into they would certainly have embraced the Jewish God or, at the worst, would have adopted the Arian version of God
CS Lewis explains the Holy Trinity eloquently and it leaves those would question it with no place to go ~ he’s gifted that way ~ and you seemed to hit the nail ~
I watched this with my class. They said to throw you a like.
It's not an explicitly stated doctrine or teaching in scripture such as the crucifixion, death, burial, resurrection, ascension and accepting Jesus as the promised Messiah, you have added to the scriptures. And this took them about 350 years after the day of Pentecost to force this onto believers via the Edict of Thessalonica and by the Roman sword. Shema.
I like to think of it as passing a tesseract through a piece of paper, in its truest portrayal, a tesseract is quite complicated, but pass one side of it through a piece of paper and what you see reflected on there becomes interesting, the first outer square shows up, vanishes then gives way to the second, smaller one...etc, seeing these individual portrayals of the tesseract reflected on a 2d plane doesn't separate said squares from the whole that is the tessarect itself...such i think is how the three that is one could be understood as well..
Is the music at the end a piece of Josquin des Prez ? I think I recognize it
Paul what perfect discription Deborah
Jesus is not God. The Teaching of the "Trinity God" is man made.
He is love, he has let himself known to me, i have felt his presence and love it is nothing comparable to love here on earth❤️
During my time in the evangelic-lutheran chruch shool, It was explained to me like this;
Water. God is like water, there are diffrent forms in the teaching of trinity.
The father is the water, when the water is frozen it is snow,
Snow could be Jesus.
When water gets hot and boils, it becomes steam- Steam is the holy spirit.
(and we all know the basic chemistry how these exchange with each other).
I was an atheist back then but I had no counter-argument to this. It is easy to understand, and I appreciate the teachings of my pastor, even though I have only understood them since I graduated.
Im now an evangelic Lutheran. But I had a thick atheist skull back then.
That’s a weird, heretical version of the trinity called modalism, which says that God can change forms between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
@@dalesajdak422 But the premise of it is that god is one, god is the water, the forms are diffrent.
@@Jk3333k3
The Trinity says that God is three persons at once; your analogy implies that God can be three different persons at different times.
@@dalesajdak422 I guess you are right, never paid much attention to that. I never noticed that in order for the logic to work in the explanation, they nearly never exist at the same time. I think that trinity is just what you there described. Thanks!
The trinity is a false doctrine. Never believed or preached by anyone in the Bible😌
I think I have a better explanation for The Holy Trinity:
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself-that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word-doublethink-involved the use of doublethink.”
-George Orwell, 1984.
That description, minus the part about democracy (sometimes, depending on who you’re listening to), makes sense not only of the Trinity, but of the explanation given in this video, and every other explanation I have ever heard anyone try to give of the Three being One yet separate. Rather than twist my brain into knots to force an obvious paradox to make sense, I can now just step back and acknowledge the doublethink for what it is.
Thank you
3 persons, but 1 being.
Problem solved
😂😂 nonsensical
@@nobey1kanobey so what's your point?
Nope😂😂😂
3 separate and distinct persons but of one mind. God almighty creator of everything. Jesus is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit who testifies (truth) of God and Christ all of one mind. God is Love. When Jesus was on the cross dying for us. I doubt he was talking to himself. He was speaking to God in Heaven.
A very good one! Thanks for this!
Hello, Brian! I have subscribed to your channel, & am a fan of your videos. Thank you for your outreach, as it is much appreciated by both myself & those who want to better understand the theological underpinnings of Christianity :) If I may ask, I believe it would be great if, in complimentary to this video explaining that God is love, and by His triune nature has a co-eternal multiplicity of persons to express this love, you can also delve into the early Synodal Church Councils expressing the Christology of the Apostle's, Nicean, Chalcedonian, and the Athanasian Christian Creeds, as they can also help us reiterate God's nature (one in being, with three distinct persons of the same essence) revealed through the New Testament; best exemplified through the Sructum Fidei that you've drawn. We are all called to be saints in our own way, and I believe having individual's like yourself in the interest of uploading UA-cam videos is an opportunity for everyone. Thank you, all the best, and hope to hear from you!
Thanks Phoenix. My goal with the videos is to, typically, introduce people to these concepts in a unique way so as to help them take a second look at a worldview that many simply bypass as if they already know it. Since I'm not really a scholar, going into those depths feels like it's outside of my calling and since there are many great resources available on those topics, my hope is that commenters like you can lead people further or that the interest that these videos sparks might inspire viewers to go deeper in their own study.
@@BrianHoldsworth ...
*Is there a verse in the New Testament that states that the Holy Spirit is God ? ...*
HERE ARE THE MAIN SCRIPTURAL REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT ALMIGHTY GOD AS BEING EXPRESSIVELY THOUGHT OF IN THE EXPRESSION OF THE TRINITY: “Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,” Mark 12:29
(1) LIKE EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD AS THE BIBLE EXPLAINS CONCERNING JESUS IN RELATION TO GOD THE BIBLE SAYS OF JESUS THAT HE: “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Colossians 1:15 KJV ONLY A CREATED BEING CAN BE CONSIDERED A CREATURE
(2) UNLESS WE WANT TO CALL JESUS A LIAR HE FLAT OUT TELLS US THAT HE WAS CREATED UPON RETURNING TO HIS PRE-HUMAN HEAVENLY EXISTING PLACE: “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God” Revelation 3:14
(3) IT IS SAID OF JESUS THAT: “However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” John 1:12 HOWEVER FROM HIS OWN POSITION IN CREATION UPON HIS RETURN TO HEAVEN THOSE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY FOLLOW WOULD BECOME HIS BROTHERS: “For it was fitting that the one for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both the one who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers,” Hebrews 2:10,11
(4) EMPHATICALLY HE EXPLAINS CONCERNING THOSE OF HIS BROTHERS WHO ARE STILL EVEN NOW REMAINING AT THIS TIME HERE ON EARTH WITH REGARDS TO HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED BECAUSE OF THE WITNESS THEY HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONED TO RENDER TO ALL WHILE LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO WILL BE FAVORABLY DISPOSED: “In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” Matthew 24:40
WITH THE CREATOR IT IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO HAVE SONS BUT VERY INCONCEIVABLE FOR HIM TO HAVE A BROTHER AS THAT WOULD MAKE THE BROTHER HIS EQUAL: “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, For I am God, and there is no one else.” Isaiah 45:22 NO WONDER THE MEANING OF THE NAME JESUS IS: [JEHOVAH IS SALVATION]
(5) THEREFORE THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE UNIVERSAL FAMILY OF THE FATHER AND HIS SONS: “For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God.” Romans 8:19
(6) ALL OF THIS LEAVES NO ROOM FOR THE SON WHO ALSO IS A WORSHIPERS OF GOD TO BE THOUGHT OF IN ANY RESPECTS TO BE WORTHY OF BEING EQUALITY WORSHIPED: “The one who conquers-I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.” Revelation 3:12
(7) THEREFORE IT IS EASY TO SEE CLEARLY THAT SINCE JESUS IS A CREATION OF GOD THIS ALSO MAKES HIM A WORSHIPER OF GOD BY RECOGNIZING THAT HE HIMSELF HAVE A GOD WHO IS WORTHY OF HIS PRAYERFUL WORSHIP: “Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
(8) THE FIRST CENTRY FOLLOWERS OF JESUS KNEW WELL THE AUTHORITY OF HEADSHIP AS IT WAS PUT IN WRITING: “But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.” 1 Corinthians 11:3
(9) AFTER THE LIE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE MINDS OF ALL HUMANS CONCERNING OUR CREATOR WE ARE TOLD: “Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.” 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” 1 Corinthians 15:24,28
(10) THERE IS NEVER A NEED FOR GOD TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ANYONE ELSE AS HIS GOD THEREFORE THE TRINITY IS NOTHING MORE THEN WHAT IS BEING SAID BY PETER WHEN REFERRING TO HOW THE VAST MAJORITY WILL TREAT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHERS: “Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:15,16
(11) THE VERY CREATION OF THE ONE WE CALL JESUS IS VIVIDLY DESCRIBED FOR US IN THE BOOK OF PROVERBS AT CHAPTER 8:22-36 AFTER READING THOSE VERSES COMPARE WHAT IS BEING TOLD TO YOU AT 1 CORINTHIANS 1:30,31 JUST IN CASE SOMEONE TRY AND TELL YOU THAT PROVERB 8 IS REFERRING TO WISDOM
IN THE FACE OF THE FOREGOING WITH THE ERRONEOUSNESS TEACHINGS THAT ARE UN-SCRIPTURALLY MAKING JESUS EQUAL TO GOD IN A GODHEAD OF THREE IN ONE ALL I CAN SAY IS ONLY THE DEVIL HAS THE POWER TO MAKE ANYONE PERVERT THE MEANING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FATHER AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SON JUST AS WE ARE TOLD: “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”
2 Corinthians 4:3,4
BEING THAT THE TRINITY DOCTRINE FAIL TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS YOU ONLY NOW CAN IMAGIN HOW WRONG IT IS CONCERNING THE HOLY SPIRIT BEING A PERSON RATHER THAN AN INTRINSIC PART OF GOD’S OWN BEING
I CAN ONLY PRAYER IN JESUS NAME THAT SOME OF YOU WHO WILL OPEN YOUR BIBLES ALONG THE LINE THAT THE FOREGOING IS CLEARLY EXPLAINING WILL HAVE THE VEIL REMOVED FROM THEIR MINDS SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR VISION RESTORED WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME
FOR MORE INFORMATION CONCERNING BIBLE TRUTH PLEASE VISIT JW.ORG
What’s the music at the end of your video?
Miserere from Allegri
Shout out from Cardinal Leger!
We are =
1. Mind
2. Body
3. Spirit
Just like God himself
God the Father is the thinker. God the Son is the thought, or word. Before a word is spoken it must be a thought. The perfection of God the father is God the son. And the perfection of God the son is God the father. God loves his own perfection and that love between the two is the Holy Spirit.
nice
So you are saying that there was a time that the Son only existed as a thought in God's mind? As a christian who does not subscribe to Necea or Chalcedon, I agree with that.
Arne Johannessen I believe the Son is eternal because everything in God is eternal including His "thoughts". So yeah the Logos is not some different being, rather a manifestation of God's "mind"
Amen and amen
Brian Gutierrez This is very bad theology from Augustine. Holy Spirit is a person rather than emotion or a thing.
So according to you if one doesn't believe that God is love, this whole Trinity thing turns void?
Zeerak Ibrahim no that's not what he is saying. What he is saying is that the universal attribute of God that he is live is one of the easiest ways in which HE uses to explain the trinity. There are other means as well. Such as Thomas Aquinas way of the consciousness that I lauded to in my first comment.
Kind of, yes, as the Trinity is an Article of Faith that cannot be discovered thru reason, so if the Church is wrong about God being Love, there is no reason to think She is right about God being Triune.
With God all things are possible
Matthew chapter 19 verse 26
When we listen, we know which words are and are not.
Love your videos. I am a muslim. I did a lot of study about Christianity. And i want to convert to Catholicism. Can i convert? Will Catholic Church accept me?
I can't think of any religion that doesn't take converts. Hopefully you live in a non-Muslim nation. Converting out of Islam is considered a crime punishable by death in some nations.
You bet! If you can, find a local Catholic parish and ask to meet with the priest.
James, I will pray for your conversion
Yes they will
The point of the Trinity is not to question the single essence of God, but rather to comprehend the energies of God, or how a single God, who's outside the created world, manifests himself in the created world, so the Hypostasis are the eternal manifestations of God, or more precisely the Spirit of God/Parakletos stands for God's relation with anything in the created world, the Word of God/Logos stands for God's actions in the created world, while the Pater is not exactly a manifestation, but rather the source of both Hypostasis, outside the created world.
Do you believe of transubstance splendore infusely another angelic persons with God the Creator?
What?
Nice to see that I can find quality videos that are not done by priests.
Holy Trinity Catholic Youth
1+1+1=1 🙂 ??????
The Holy Trinity is heretical and is against the Bible
The ,, beauty ,, of Trinitv. . Everyone gets to have their own version ,, and modify it at a whim.
God is a set that consists of three things. The set itself is one thing. Easy math, easy to understand. I don't see why anyone thinks it's hard to understand.
THANKS ... YOU MADE A GOOD POINT .
So 3 entities, distinct but sharing the same substance
So if 'God' gives (...), who gives? One of them? All of them? Do their minds work in synchro?
How it "works" is beyond our understanding. The best answer I can give you is to look at our Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible, how He acts and communicates towards God.
Excellent! A true living mystery! One way to define 'mystery' is "Shut the mouth." f[rom Greek mysterion (usually in plural mysteria) "secret rite or doctrine," from mystes "one who has been initiated," from myein "to close, shut" (see mute (adj.)); perhaps referring to the lips (in secrecy)
The observation that men can define god runs afoul of making an image of god. How does one circumscribe the infinite? In a sense, the Son allows for that, the intimacy of limitation, of the sacrifice of limitation, of the immediacy of love...
This is where we need St Thomas Aquinas. The treatise on the Trinity within the Summa Theologica is the place to go.
I was really hoping you'd cut to EXPECTOOOOOOO
Yes, I agree with you. Love is the perfect explanation of the Trinity.
No it’s not. God is love not because you think he’s triune but because he shows it in every way. God is also Almighty, Wise and Just. He perfectly reflects his 4 main qualities. It’s really got nothing to do with the trinity.
Excellent! And the same applies to truth. God is truth. And like love, truth requires relationship because of the moral dimension. Truth is not simply fact, but honest.
Moral relationship only exists between persons. Therefore if God is truth, then God experiences relationship in himself.
As a Catholic, I've never really liked the "God is love" argument. I feel like it wouldn't hold up to scrutiny. Is God mercy or forgiveness? Is God grace? It would seem that those things require sinful people as recipients and therefore God cannot be them. Is love somehow different than those other nouns?
you're right "God is love" as justification for trinity is laughable...
@@DePeaceHunter I don't think it's the strongest argument. We believe in the Trinity because it is revealed in Scripture and Tradition, so that is the argument that should be put forward.
As the Poet and Philosopher Allama Iqbal said:
Christianity describes God as love; Islam as power. How shall we decide between the two conceptions? I think the history of mankind and of the universe as a whole must tell us as to which of the two conceptions is truer. I find that God reveals Himself in history more as power than love. I do not deny the love of God; I mean that, on the basis of our historical experience, God is better described as power.
Very interesting. While I am not Catholic (or a Trinitarian) this explained very well your beliefs. I have always loved Stephens account of The father WITH the Son on the right hand of the father in Acts 7. Are you saying they are 3 beings with one purpose God at the center? I'm respectfully curious and a little confused. Thanks
Hi Kristen. Thanks! To answer your question, no they are not seperate beings. God is being itself. They are distinct persons only. Hope that helps.
Brian Holdsworth thank you for taking time to reply. I'm referring to Acts 7 verse 55. I'm confused by how Stephen saw God and Jesus at the right hand of God. I have a very strong testimony of Christ as the only Begotten Son of God and my Savior. I appreciate your channel so much. Please don't think I am trying to offend
I'm not offended at all. Again, they are distinct from each other as individual persons, so they could be perceived separately. There is also the fact that Christ is human where as God the Father and the Holy Spirit are spirit.
Brian Holdsworth How do you define fact as related to your comment that the son is “fact” and the father and spirit are abstract?
I'm not sure I understand your question. I was pointing out the additional information (fact) that Jesus (the Son) is incarnate as a human which is another way that he can be perceived separately from the Father. I wasn't trying to claim that the Father or the Holy Spirit are abstract, although in a manner of speaking, I suppose that could be considered correct since they are not material.
Wow, you really look like one of the characters in the Book of Kells
I just don’t think the trinity concept should be so difficult. So many people trying to explain it and it’s so complicated! If it’s in the Bible then just show where it’s in the Bible.
There is an old jewish doctrine that points out to 2 Powers in heaven. Gen 19:24 is especially interesting.
High Five Cryptoctopus-
For a scholarly analysis of this, check out chapter 7 of J.C. O'Neill's 1995 book "Who did Jesus think He Was?" I think the entire text is viewable at Google Books.
For a fun and instructive Bible study, type "The Angel of the LORD" into your favorite Bible software (Logos, Accordance, Biblehub.com, BlueletterBible.com,etc.) This "messenger of YHWH" is not like anyone else. He is distinct from YHWH yet He receives worship and blesses people. At times (read the account of Gidean in the book of Judges) the biblical writers are intentionally vague about "which YHWH" is in view.
In Exodus 23:20-21, YHWH says that He will send an angel before the israelites in whom is His Name. This "angel" is identified as Jesus in Jude 1:5. Yet in Isaiah 42:8, YHWH says that he does not give his name, his glory to another.
Add to that the fact that "no one has seen God except the one who came down from Heaven" yet "Yahweh is often seen in the Old Testament, particularly with the Patriarchs.
Hey Brian! Just wanna give a little thing to be reconsidered as well. As we know, God is Timeless and also Spaceless. So the question " who did God love before He created his creations ?" become irrelevant, because God himself created time. God is much more greater than to be put into circumstances or timing that has to be fulfilled like "before creation". Also maybe to understand the trinity we can start on really understanding every detail of it, like the roles of every person in it, what are their attributes and what differs them from each other, rather than trying to force this doctrine to make sense just because we shouldn't expect simplicity from God.
Anyways, really like the color and vibess 👍🏻
Another question that muslims ask a lot is did God die in christianity because jesus is the son of God and the son is a part of the trinity meaning he's a part of God , and as we all know christianity teaches that jesus died on the cross. So the question is did God die ???
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Mein Kampf
Joseph goebbels didn’t actually say that.
@@Kingrich_777No, the Austrian Painter said it.
our lady of good success explains this very well too!
Awesome video man.
The God, almighty One is the Father, The Son and The Holly Spirit, whose essence is love. For He had created everything from love.
What do you think God the father looks like?
@@michaelmacias8ionno
Who seated at the left hand of God?
So where does the spirit of the Son fit into the trinity doctrine?
@sask 101 LOL. Correct. I guess they completely missed what the OT says about Elohiem. He is the father Yhwh ALONE. Isaiah 37:19, Isaiah 43,44,45, 2nd kings 19:19. Over 1500 verses in both the NT and OT prove that he is ONE alone and he never changes. He is not a trinity. However, more and more people are waking up to the lies that came soon after John died. Exciting times!
@sask 101 Yes! Mystery religion of Babylon indeed. You know if God is a mystery then that means no one can be judged for not knowing him personally. Makes no logical sense. He spent over 4k years explicitly describing exactly who he is. And we were told to TEST and PROVE ALL THINGS. The trinity is the biggest lie ever perpetrated on mankind and has led billions into pagan idolatry. But we were warned of a strong delusion and false christ. Everyone can't even see its been right under thier noses the whole time. Worshipping a man as God Almighty in the flesh is an abomination.
@K. Day The Spirit of the Son is the Holy Spirit, so called because He proceeds thru the Son.
I hear 2 sides saying that Jesus is literally god the one who created everything or they r 2 different ppl. I wanna believe the truth but I don’t know which one is and I’m sad and lost abt it. Plz help me :(
Learn about the council of Nicea. Read On The Incarnation, by St. Athanasius. Or, for something a bit easier, CS Lewis has a chapter about the Trinity in Mere Christianity.
Jesus said The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD John 17:3
God is LOVE and he who abides in LOVE abides in God and God in him.
Chaz: You haven't read the bible have you?
The better question is
Which is true ?
The Catholic or the Orthodox ??
The way they explain is different .
Who has the Holy Spirit ??
In the Bible Jesus say GOD IS ONE , but the Church say God is 3 in 1.
Have you never wondered , for 300 years before the trinity idea is finalized , the people who lived before that , are they saved ??
Imagine Jesus when he was on earth NEVER TALKED ABOUT TRINITY ...
Is then Jesus willfully misguiding the people ??
Or has mankind changed Christianity to suit their needs
When someone asks me how to make sense of the Trinity. I always refer them to a coin. A coin is one object, but has two sides. Just like God is one being, but has three distinct "sides" that He manifests Himself as. At least that is how I make sense of it.
Jesus said The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD JOHN 17:3
@@leahjames6870in vs 5 Jesus says he had the same glory as the Father before the World existed. There is no problem with John 17:3, because the same book of John says Jesus is God (John 1:1), and Jesus himself says he is one with God (John 10:30) and says that they MUST honor him the same way as they honor the Father (John 5:23). Can a mere man say that they must honor him as they honor God? No, that would be blasphemy. Each person of the trinity is fully God, so it is not wrong for Jesus to say that the Father is the Only True God. There's no contradiction there, cause he repeatedly said he is God as well in other places. The Father is God unbegotten and unproceeding, the Son is the begotten God, the Spirit is the proceeding God. One nature, one essence, one divinity.
@@UltraX34 That’s not what Jesus said. He didn’t say he had the SAME glory. He said he HAD glory with The Father. Continue reading John and go down to verse 22, Jesus says:
And the GLORY which thou gavest me, I have GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
Jesus having glory does not prove he is God. In John, we see that Jesus has glory AND he also has given glory to others, to the ones that The Father has given him.
Nothing you’ve stated proves that Jesus is God. John 1 doesn’t prove it, nor does it prove a “trinity”. Jesus saying he is one with The Father doesn’t prove it. Jesus also prayed the same for believers. Jesus never says he is God. If he did, please provide a scripture where he does. Where he plainly states it. No one in the entire Bible was a trinitarian. No one believed such things as “one nature, essence, and divinity”. That was a much later invention. To believe that God is “3 persons” is tritheism and there’s no way out or around it.
How is this different from pagan Hinduism that believes there’s one God but many sides or facets of a diamond. It’s pagan and polytheistic.
It's already in the Old Testament:
Genesis 1 26 "And *God* said: Let *us* make man in *our* image, after *our* likeness" 🙂
Genesis 2 24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and *they shall be one* flesh"
Genesis 3 22 "And the Lord *God* said, Behold, the man is become as one of *us,* to know good and evil"
If jesus die in the electric chair, so you using the necklace using symbol chair?
@Raven uh. A cross can be a lot of things, but the cross IS an instrument of torture and execution in ancient Rome. I don't get Our point
Chad yes, Rifai
The states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”-(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
No Explanation from Bible. Only emotion and your own assumption.
Is the Trinity Three Divine Persons in one Divine Nature, so we humans are persons in one human nature.
Nature or substance in material creatures refers to the general nature (the species) or the particular nature (the individual). Humans are consubstantial insofar as each of us is human, but being composed of matter, each of us also has a particular nature not shared with other humans.
Spirits, however, have no matter to distinguish them, so for each angelic nature there is but one angel, and the species-individual distinction is meaningless.
Now God is Infinite and the Author of all categories, so He Himself cannot be categorized. However, we can speak analogically of His Nature or Substance, Which is Absolutely One, with no distinctions*. Except we do distinguish between the Persons, not as being different beings in one species as humans are, but Each Person being the Nature/Substance - it is true of Each Person that He is God and there is no other. The Persons are distinguished not by having different matter but by Their Relationships - the Father begets, the Son is begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Both. (These Relationships are also the Same as the Nature.)
It is written, the Son comes out from the BOSOM (heart) of the father hence just like the WORD must be hidden in our heart for it to be spoken from the heart, so is the Father's HEART spoken to us, sent to us and it won't return VOID (or leave the VOID in us) that MUST receive the WORD through our heart to make it a heart of flesh instead of a stony heart (heart where the law is written but not activated by the HOLY SPIRIT.
The HOLY Spirit activates the LETTER of the WORD to form the Spirit of MAN within him. Here MAN is greater than male or female, Jew or Greek, but is the EXPRESS IMAGE and LIKENESS OF GOD, hence Jesus the NAME given to Christ by the angels before Christ is BORN through the heart (Mary): The heart has four parts, (Mark 4, parable of parables Jesus said, so if you understand this one, you understand them all): The ONLY GOOD part of our heart or good ground, must be part of God himself since only God is good: The good ground therefor is the virgin ground of being that makes the SEED (LIGHT) of the woman, formed into MAN in four phases: 30 60 100 fold. Man is the GOAL of God, his image and likeness; Males are part beast hence the "mark of the beast" is the NUMBER of a MAN. Why must the beast be killed before MAN emerges? God made out of ONE LUMP (one person) two VESSELS (souls) one of VANITY (our ego or self consciousness) and our soul or the vessel of honor which is God conscious, or HAS THE MIND OF CHRIST RULING within it. Christ rules by the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT, which is also the comforter to comfort us in our affliction and the Spirit of truth that leads into all truth. Jesus said the HOLY SPIRIT would take what is his and give it to us: What is CHRISTS? His FATHER coming to us in the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT:
a mystery makes sense does it it might do to you
4:05 "we are dealing with a god with UNLIMITED POWER"
well, i pose the same question
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ?
Logically ... if our knowledge by comparison to god is so limited that we cannot understand him or the trinity and therefore should not presume that the trinity cannot exist
IT IS ALSO LOGICAL TO CONCLUDE that what may to us, look like unlimited power , to him is nothing more than a breath, but in reality his power has limits but we are not aware of them because we cannot comprehend those limits
As an example : I'm an engineer , Electronics, computers and Networks.
Now at times i do things that TO OTHERS (Lamen people) seems amazing and they don't know how i did it, but to me these things are simple
just like if you ask a lamen person what is the extent of my technical ability, they would have absolutely not clue how to answer (Because they do not understand technology), by the same token , just like my power is limited by seemingly unlimited, Gods power may also be limited but to humans seemingly unlimited
One person define like this, another person define like that, etc
I agree when you say some answers are not the kind of thing you would invent. In fact the REALLY unexpected answers have a degree of 'authenticity' about them. I will give you another - Bible based - example.
One of the major ideas in Christianity is the resurrection. One would have thought, if the bible were propaganda, that THOUSANDS of people would have witnessed it. Yet according to the Bible only a few people were there at the aftermath. I always found this curious. Surely it would have been better to say 'and the multitudes witnessed this event with awe'.
The Trinity is how God relates to Himself
I came out with this explanation for the trinity independently in the 80's while I was in the University studying Mechanical Engineering. My friend who was then studying to become a pastor brought it up for discussion. But I have lately repented of it considering the compelling evidence in the Bible about the uniqueness of the Father. For instance, if he is the Father then he must be before the Son. How can he claim to have begotten the Son on a particular day if he existed co-eternally with him? Besides he makes the Son who he is and has exalted him above every creature. No one can give to the Father as he is infinite and eternal. But the Son is made to be whoever he is by the Father, suggesting that the Son is limited. Moreover, the Son refers to the Father as the only true God. [John17:3]. God can also be seen to be LOVE eternally without the need for an eternal other person, if we envision him to have always loved himself.
the trinity basically symbolizes that God is love.
How to talk with such a kind voice like you?
The Trinity was never suppose to be this exact and only view of God's divine nature but an example of His divine nature shared with all. He said I Am, so as to teach us that what He has to give was never meant to be only His but shared with all. Unlike pagan gods they only require whereas the One God only gives!
In 5:25 you state that father and son exchange love through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is just a means of communication, not god. That can be applied to what the Holy Spirit generally does. It is god's way to give love to everyone, be it through revelation or enlightenment or epiphany. Also what makes god, as he revailed himself to Abraham or Moses, different from Jesus and not worthy to be in the holy trinidy??? Is jesus superior to the other ways god revails himself and is he not just one of them? In my mind, god is what in the holy trinidy is called 'the father'. Anything else is just a means of communication.
The Holy Spirit, as His name indicates, is Holy in virtue of His origin, His spiration; now holiness resides in the will. the Father and the Son love one another from all eternity, with a perfect ineffable love; the Spirit is God's love, the eternal manifestation of God's own affection for Himself.. This is why St Augustine gave the analogy of the Father as the lover, the Son as the beloved, and the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and the Son.
Blessed Holy Trinity is more of a DISCOVERY than a concept.
The Triune God is literally perfect in every way. God is love could only be possible if God exists in more then one Person, “3 Persons” Father, Son, Holy Spirit are 3 in Persons but 1 essence, nature, being 1 God. It’s like our way of saying “We are One” for a company event or a slogan for a charity. We don’t think of this as a contradiction because we understand that we understand this in different senses. Same with the Triune God when we say that God is 3 and 1 because we mean it in different senses. No contradiction here only perfection that for all eternity God existed in a set of living loving relationships so therefore God didn’t need anything nor is dependent upon anyone in order to express and experience love since it already existed for all eternity within the Trinity. We are here because God is love “Triune” and out of love God created us! Glory to the perfect God!
"The Truth About God: Is the Trinity True or False?" Please click on the link below to watch and understand the biblical teachings: ⬇️⬇️⬇️
ua-cam.com/video/hKh0SPB5cjw/v-deo.html
HERE ARE THE MAIN SCRIPTURAL REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT ALMIGHTY GOD AS BEING EXPRESSIVELY THOUGHT OF IN THE EXPRESSION OF THE TRINITY: “Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,” Mark 12:29
(1) LIKE EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD AS THE BIBLE EXPLAINS CONCERNING JESUS IN RELATION TO GOD THE BIBLE SAYS OF JESUS THAT HE: “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Colossians 1:15 KJV ONLY A CREATED BEING CAN BE CONSIDERED A CREATURE
(2) UNLESS WE WANT TO CALL JESUS A LIAR HE FLAT OUT TELLS US THAT HE WAS CREATED UPON RETURNING TO HIS PRE-HUMAN HEAVENLY EXISTING PLACE: “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God” Revelation 3:14
(3) IT IS SAID OF JESUS THAT: “However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” John 1:12 HOWEVER FROM HIS OWN POSITION IN CREATION UPON HIS RETURN TO HEAVEN THOSE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY FOLLOW WOULD BECOME HIS BROTHERS: “For it was fitting that the one for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both the one who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all stem from one, and for this reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers,” Hebrews 2:10,11
(4) EMPHATICALLY HE EXPLAINS CONCERNING THOSE OF HIS BROTHERS WHO ARE STILL EVEN NOW REMAINING AT THIS TIME HERE ON EARTH WITH REGARDS TO HOW THEY ARE BEING TREATED BECAUSE OF THE WITNESS THEY HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONED TO RENDER TO ALL WHILE LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO WILL BE FAVORABLY DISPOSED: “In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” Matthew 24:40
WITH THE CREATOR IT IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD TO HAVE SONS BUT VERY INCONCEIVABLE FOR HIM TO HAVE A BROTHER AS THAT WOULD MAKE THE BROTHER HIS EQUAL: “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, For I am God, and there is no one else.” Isaiah 45:22 NO WONDER THE MEANING OF THE NAME JESUS IS: [JEHOVAH IS SALVATION]
(5) THEREFORE THE TRUTH CONCERNING THE UNIVERSAL FAMILY OF THE FATHER AND HIS SONS: “For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God.” Romans 8:19
(6) ALL OF THIS LEAVES NO ROOM FOR THE SON WHO ALSO IS A WORSHIPERS OF GOD TO BE THOUGHT OF IN ANY RESPECTS TO BE WORTHY OF BEING EQUALITY WORSHIPED: “The one who conquers-I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.” Revelation 3:12
(7) THEREFORE IT IS EASY TO SEE CLEARLY THAT SINCE JESUS IS A CREATION OF GOD THIS ALSO MAKES HIM A WORSHIPER OF GOD BY RECOGNIZING THAT HE HIMSELF HAVE A GOD WHO IS WORTHY OF HIS PRAYERFUL WORSHIP: “Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
(8) THE FIRST CENTRY FOLLOWERS OF JESUS KNEW WELL THE AUTHORITY OF HEADSHIP AS IT WAS PUT IN WRITING: “But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.” 1 Corinthians 11:3
(9) AFTER THE LIE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE MINDS OF ALL HUMANS CONCERNING OUR CREATOR WE ARE TOLD: “Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.” 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” 1 Corinthians 15:24,28
(10) THERE IS NEVER A NEED FOR GOD TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ANYONE ELSE AS HIS GOD THEREFORE THE TRINITY IS NOTHING MORE THEN WHAT IS BEING SAID BY PETER WHEN REFERRING TO HOW THE VAST MAJORITY WILL TREAT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHERS: “Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:15,16
(11) THE VERY CREATION OF THE ONE WE CALL JESUS IS VIVIDLY DESCRIBED FOR US IN THE BOOK OF PROVERBS AT CHAPTER 8:22-36 AFTER READING THOSE VERSES COMPARE WHAT IS BEING TOLD TO YOU AT 1 CORINTHIANS 1:30,31 JUST IN CASE SOMEONE TRY AND TELL YOU THAT PROVERB 8 IS REFERRING TO WISDOM
IN THE FACE OF THE FOREGOING WITH THE ERRONEOUSNESS TEACHINGS THAT ARE UN-SCRIPTURALLY MAKING JESUS EQUAL TO GOD IN A GODHEAD OF THREE IN ONE ALL I CAN SAY IS ONLY THE DEVIL HAS THE POWER TO MAKE ANYONE PERVERT THE MEANING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FATHER AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SON JUST AS WE ARE TOLD: “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”
2 Corinthians 4:3,4
BEING THAT THE TRINITY DOCTRINE FAIL TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS YOU ONLY NOW CAN IMAGIN HOW WRONG IT IS CONCERNING THE HOLY SPIRIT BEING A PERSON RATHER THAN AN INTRINSIC PART OF GOD’S OWN BEING
I CAN ONLY PRAYER IN JESUS NAME THAT SOME OF YOU WHO WILL OPEN YOUR BIBLES ALONG THE LINE THAT THE FOREGOING IS CLEARLY EXPLAINING WILL HAVE THE VEIL REMOVED FROM THEIR MINDS SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR VISION RESTORED WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME
FOR MORE INFORMATION CONCERNING BIBLE TRUTH PLEASE VISIT JW.ORG
Jesus wasn’t a trinitarian😌
Actually, Greeks, Romans, and many ancient religions that came out of Babylon had 3 main gods that they made into a trinity. So if I were to think of a pagan God, I'd think of a trinity. They just had to forge the concept somehow into a One God concept to make it fit the Bible.
Alexander Hislop called, he wants his old, long outdated half-baked theories and inaccuracies back.
@@Mic1904 Hislop seems to blame basically everything on Constantine. While Constantine did play a part in putting the Roman empire on more friendly relations with Christians, it was actually Christian converts from paganism who used the philosophy of Romans and Greeks to postulate a trinity. The first trinity on record with Christianity was of God, his Son, and God's Wisdom (rather than the Holy Spirit).
Sean Finnegan, a Unitarian, does a good job deconstructing the Trinitarian myth that the Church Fathers were all trinitarians, in his video "The Trinity before Nicea - 7 Early Theologians."
But hey, if you want to believe in the Trinity, and you researched a ton, you have at it. We each have to answer for our own error. Whether it is eye that is wrong ewe, perhaps God will grant the ignorant forgiveness.
The Godhead and Godhood
Christians do love their spiritual jargon, especially when it is has the epic overtones of the King James Version. Jargon is only useful when we properly know what it means. One such theological word found in and popularised by the KJV is “godhead.” The problem I have with it is that it is used synonymously for the Holy Trinity. As far scripture is concerned it isn’t.
The word “godhead” appears only three times in the KJV at Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9. [1]The word is from Middle English and means the same as godhood, that is, the state of being god. The -head suffix is the same as -hood which we still use in modern English in words like fatherhood, the state of being a father. [2]Three different Koine Greek words, theion, theiotēs, and theotēs, in order of their appearance in the KJV, were translated as “godhead”. Modern translations of the Bible do not use godhead but tend to use words like deity, the divine nature, or divine being depending on the context. The Greeks used such words to talk about god without referring to any specific one in particular. This particularly makes sense in Acts 17 at the Areopagus where Paul was addressing a Greek audience and presenting his arguments on the true nature of God. Even in somewhat formal English today we refer to God in sort of an impersonal manner by calling him the Deity. So where did this association with the Trinity come from?
On account of the continued popularity of the KJV, the word “godhead” continues to stay in currency. The word was actually introduced into English translations by John Wycliffe, the great English Bible translator and Reformer. [3]As early as the 12th century B.B. Warfield remarks that it was used as a technical term used to refer to the ousia or the substance of God in the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Since this predated Wycliffe it was probably an influence on why in his translation of the New Testament the term. It was chosen because of its Trinitarian connotations. The KJV was heavily influenced by Wycliffe’s why is why the godhead was probably used in the translation. Its popularity continued in later documents like Thirty-Nine articles of the Church of England and the Westminster confession.
Even though godhead is used to refer to Trinitarian doctrine, in the KJV it is used to translate words that have nothing to do with later theological developments. Even the basic meaning of the word is not Trinitarian and just means being divine. I fully recognise the meaning of a word is determined by how it is used and the word has for a long time assumed that technical theological meaning. All I am saying is whenever we pick up the KJV and read the word, we should not immediately assume it is a reference to the Trinity
The way I see the holy Trinity is think if god like you (after all, we are all created in gods image) You have many different identities, a Daughter/son, a friend, a brother/sister, etc. all of these make up you.
So how do you fit Adam the first Son of God into your trinity Godhead? Luke 3:38.
By admitting that the Bible uses language in different ways. The Gospel of John says Jesus is God's ONLY begotten son. It never says Adam was begotten. Genesis clearly narrates his creation which is something different.
Brian Holdsworth Actually when you establish his word by 2 or 3 witnesses, the NT clearly states Yeshua is the FIRSTBORN of many brothers, or FIRSTbegotten as Hebrews 1:6 says. Yeshua was the ONLY begotten until the spirit was poured out on ALL, that’s what makes us all sons of God just like it did Jesus also clearly stated in I John 3:9-10. And Romans 1:3-4 clearly states he was of the seed or sperm of David according to flesh (not the spirit) until his (spiritual) resurrection at the Jordan (This is my Son...) like it is for all sons. Romans 8:11. I’m afraid the church was led into pagan idolatry of worshipping a man as God, like Jesus warned against, by not understanding that Jesus was talking about spiritual birth, not physical birth. Spiritual death, burial, and resurrection. As a LIVING SACRIFICE. We must overcome sin and crucify our flesh like he did on a spiritual cross by denying ourselves Rev. 3:21. Jesus is not a god-man. If he is, then all Gods sons are. We are sons by his spirit not a miracle birth. If it were then king Hezekiah was also a god man Isaiah 7:14 is about him first. Adam was indeed begotten by God as his spirit gave him life, the first man ADAM. Yeshua was the 2nd man Adam. He never claimed to be the Almighty. Because people do not establish scripture line up line, precept upon precept. Scripture interprets scripture. I pray you seek the truth or treasure that’s been hidden in a field, or from those who are perishing. Being begotten by God is being born of his spirit or seed which is in and for ALL true children or sons of God. clearly noted in I John 3:9-10. Sorry I used the word clearly so much, but it fits so well.
@@RoseSharon7777 OK. Let's assume your interpretation of all those verses is correct. Start by aknowledging this isn't some breakthrough insight. They debated this stuff in the earliest centuries of the Church and had rival explanations for all of it. The question for me becomes, how do we know which interpretation is correct? Some theologians as early as the patristic era say one thing and others say another. You say that the side that won turned the Church into a pagan cult. But Jesus said his Church would endure and that the gates of hell would not prevail. He took great pains to establish this church by forming his disciples and anointing them with divine authority. Which is just one more confirmation of his own divinity. He forgave sins which his Jewish audience knew was the sole authority of God. That's why they accused him of blasphemy. But what was the point of establishing this authoritative Church which he foresaw as enduring to the end of the age if it would just collapse into apostasy. Either it did endure, or he lied which means he wasn't who any of us claim to follow.
Brian Holdsworth Brian Holdsworth the truth is hidden within scripture which has been corrupted. If the NT weren’t innerant, then only one witness would be required not 2 or 3 to confirm its authenticity. Rightly divide the word of truth (from lies). Jer. 8:8 in the Hebrew also warns us about the lying pen of the scribes to deceive. Whoever believes the Bible is innerant certainly has never read it without blinders of indoctrination. We don’t even know who the true authors of the gospels are and were written long after 70 ad. Jesus told us that the kingdom is hidden like a treasure. We must study to show ourselves approved. Finding the pearl of great value takes hard work. Narrow is the gate and FEW that find it. And yes, the gates of death will not prevail against the truth. Only now during this time of great tribulation and the day star rising in our hearts during the outpouring of the latter rain, will eyes be opened to those who are truly seeking and have realized the strong delusion that came exactly when Daniel said. 1335 years ago when the church made the trinity doctrine church law at the 3rd council of Constanilople. Worshipping a man as God Almighty. The beast out of the earth. I’m sorry friend, the deception is deep and strong. You must compare scripture with scripture and the OT is clear, God (Yhwh the father) is ONE ALONE. As does the NT. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God as that would make him the very antichrist he warned not to be deceived by. Verses taken out of context leads to error. Pray you listen to me because time is shorter than most think. Blessings.
Brian Holdsworth the truth is hidden within scripture which has been corrupted. If the NT were
innerant, then only one witness would be required not 2 or 3 to confirm its authenticity. Rightly divide the word of truth (from lies). Jer. 8:8 in the Hebrew also warns us about the lying pen of the scribes to deceive. Whoever believes the Bible is innerant certainly has never read it without blinders of indoctrination. We don’t even know who the true authors of the gospels are and were written long after 70 ad. Jesus told us that the kingdom is hidden like a treasure. We must study to show ourselves approved. Finding the pearl of great value takes hard work. Narrow is the gate and FEW that find it. And yes, the gates of death will not prevail against the truth. Only now during this time of great tribulation and the day star rising in our hearts during the outpouring of the latter rain, will eyes be opened to those who are truly seeking and have realized the strong delusion that came exactly when Daniel said. 1335 years ago when the church made the trinity doctrine church law at the 3rd council of Constanilople. Worshipping a man as God Almighty. The beast out of the earth. I’m sorry friend, the deception is deep and strong. You must compare scripture with scripture and the OT is clear, God (Yhwh the father) is ONE ALONE. As does the NT. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God as that would make him the very antichrist he warned not to be deceived by. Verses taken out of context leads and led to error. Remember God the father said HE would send a strong delusion. He allowed his word to be corrupted, but he also gave us specific instructions on how to find the truth, line upon line precept upon precept, rightly dividing truth. Jesus told us the words he spoke were not of himself but the words the father told him to speak. He gave all the glory to the father, never taking glory for himself. Why? Because he was a man just like us who was begotten of God the same way we are, by his spirit or seed described in I John 3:9-10. And ANYONE born of this same spirit does not sin, just like Jesus. It’s pretty clear if you just sit and think it thru. The truth has been hidden because the ekklesia has been in exile in pagan Egypt just like Israel was for the same thing. Pagan idolatry. Worshipping men as Gods. An abomination. God did not and CANNOT And IS NOT A MAN as he also clearly states in Hosea 11:9. . Thus the type and picture. I pray you listen. Blessings.
The Tanakh (Old Testament) in Hebrew talks of three persons in one God too. YHWH, Angel of YHWH and the Ghost of YHWH.
It was the Angel of YHWH who spoke to Moses from the burning bush not YHWH. There are a multitude of examples of this and even ancient Hebrews talked of the three headed God, etc. and that YHWH created the Universe through the Ghost of YHWH and the word (Logos) of YHWH who was there with YHWH from before the dawn of time.
so then using a combination of christanity and islam.
the angel is gabriel?
the ghost is jesus?
Please consider reading the verses quoted hereunder.
Was it not the Word of God (Lord Yeshua) who gave the Ten Commandments while the Law of Moses was given through the Angel of God. 1 Sam 3:21; “the LORD appeared again at Shiloh, for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of the LORD” 1 Cor 10:3-4; “all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ”. Jn 8:58; “Truly,
truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Deu 5:22; “These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire”--“HE ADDED NO MORE. And HE WROTE THEM on two tablets of stone and gave them to me”
2 Kgs 21:8; “according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all THE LAW THAT MY SERVANT MOSES COMMANDED THEM.”
Josh 24:26; Joshua wrote these words in the Book of the Law of God. And he took a large stone and set it up there under the terebinth that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
Deu 27:2-3; On the day you cross over the Jordan to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall set up large stones and plaster them with plaster. And you shall write on them all the words of this law, when you cross over to enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you”
Gal 3:19; “Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary”.
Acts 7:53; “you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”
Acts 7:38; “This is the one”---- “with the angel”
Ex 24:1; “Then he said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD” Ex 24:4; Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD”
Josh 8:32; “there, in the presence of the people of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written”
Deu 29:1; “These are the words of the covenant that the LORD commanded Moses to make with the people of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant that he had made with them at Horeb”.
Luk 2:22;”purification according to the Law of Moses”
Rom 7:22;”I delight in the law of God, in my inner being”.
Eph 2:15; by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace”
Col 2:14; “by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross”.
This is Eternal Life Jn 17:3; “this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” Is it not Lord Yeshua Messiah the form of God the Spirit.Yes. He was foreknown but made manifest in flesh and was declared to be the Son of God (Rom 1:4;) but in reality Messiah Yeshua was Jn 8:24,28; “unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” Deu 32:39; I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me;
Examine the Scripture by yourself, as I am not a priest or a pastor.
I'm confused every religion has a book that they consider it holy and get their fundamentals from it, when it comes to Christians they never use the Bible! But emotions and stories
In christianity, the Church existed before the "book". The Church is the people NOT an inanimate object called a 'Bible". The Catholic Church created the "book" known as the christian Bible in 382AD before Mohammed was born. Therefore within christianity only the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the Bible because it is a Catholic book. The "book" accompanies/assists the Church in its mission but if all the christian Bibles were burned and the internet was fried, we would still have the Church.
@@SaintCharbelMiracleworker
that's where the problem lies. you depends on Church which led by human. and Human are sinful and corruptable.
@@DePeaceHunter Your church is also led by humans and if you don't belong to a church you are led by yourself. You think the davidic kingdoms were a "every man for himself" deal?" No, there was an established hierarchy, people can't just be doing as they please. Jesus as the Son of David established a new Davidic kingdom, He is the King and the. Pope is His steward/vizier. No other church can claim this and they have no documented history linking back to Matthew 16 only the CC.
From conception the Church was an OFFICIAL sect within Judaism. When you read Acts 1 and if you are familiar with Halakhah Law you will immediately notice that the Church is a legal entity WITHIN Judaism. There are 3 requirements which are met.
Firstly, notice that there are 120 members in this synagogue. Why is this important? It is the exact number of persons in the Halakhah regulations to form a full fledged synagogue.
Secondly next according to Halakhah regulations there must be a "beit din" (Hebrew court) formed. We see that there is a beit din and it draws lots and Matthias a disciple is chosen to take over Judas bishopric (episkopen). The first example of Apostolic Succession. So two of the three requirements are met.
The third requirement is that there must be a NASI (prince/temporal) and an AB (father/spiritual) appointed. Curiously Peter is filling both these positions in this beit din. Why?
In 190 BC the Kohan Gadol (high priest office) fell into apostasy and beit din gadol cast a vote of no confidence splitting the two offices of the kohan gadol into the "nasi" and the "ab" within the Beit Din Gadol.
Fast forward to Matt16, in this new Beit Din Gadol (70 disciples) Christ has placed His confidence in Peter (the first AB/father/pope meaning papa) by presenting him the Keys to the temple and bringing the two offices back together the way it originally was.
The pope has both temporal and spiritual powers. Peter is the NASI prince of the apostles and the AB/pope (Pope meaning papa - meaning father) as you see even today the pope as Peters documented unbroken apostolic successor is both ‘nasi’ and the ‘ab’ in Catholicism.
Christ appointed Peter as His steward with the keys as per Isaiah 22 vs 19-24 and Matt16. Peter is First amongst equals. In the Davidic kingdoms there was always an al-bayith (steward), that is Peters role. Christ also renames Peter (the only Apostle renamed) as Abraham and Jacob were renamed by God in preparation for their specific role in salvation history.
Peter's successors (Popes) are first amongst equals ie bishops who make up the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
First book of Kings lists all the Kings and it always has the royal steward/vizier listed next to the King as well because in the absence of the King he was in charge of the Kingdom. The steward is given the sash/robes/keys to the temple because the role is also a priestly role. The steward would wear the keys around his neck so the citizens of the davidic kingdoms knew who he was. (Rashi/Jewish sage writes a commentary on the priestly role of the steward/vizier and the Keys are the keys of the temple and government).
Jesus presents the keys to Peter (Pope/ab) and appoints him/his successors as His royal steward to care for HIs flock until His return.
The 120 is the Knesset HaGadolah which was supposed to be restored in the Olam Haba. Judaism and Catholicism was born on Shavuot/Pentecost.
@@DePeaceHunter but they claim that the Popes and Fathera are infallible. That's the reason why the corrupted view is also entertained as the teachings of Jesus (which clearly is not)
Catholic theology uses “nature” to describe what a living being can do, and “person” to describe who the living being is. John tells us that “God is love.” Love requires a lover and a beloved, a giver and a receiver, a subject and an object. The only one who can be the fitting object of the absolute fullness of God’s love is someone who is exactly like him, the one “through whom he created the universe, who is the refulgence of his glory, the very imprint of his being, and who sustains all things by his mighty word.” (Hebrews 1:2-3) That is why that one is called the “only-begotten” son of God. The Father’s love for the Son and the Son's return of that love to the Father is personified as the Holy Spirit. Because the divine nature is infinite in every way, there can only be one divine nature. Infinity cannot be divided. So each of the divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have the divine nature (the infinite capabilities) in all its fullness. Thus each of the three divine persons are fully God. That is how three separate persons can be one God. The Father did not become incarnate, nor did the Holy Spirit, only the Son. Each is a separate person, while all having the same nature.
The Hindu Trimurti is the best explanation of the Trinity. Three in one pagan gods.
Thanks for your thoughts. The Trinity as doctrine solves a problem! It solves the problem of God as Father, Son and Spirit each being treated as 'god' in the scriptures. Oddly, the family is a 'type' in miniature of the Trinity. Let's take the Jones family. There's father Jones, mother Jones and baby Jones. They are all equally Jones. They are one family and share one nature: human nature. They are each equally and fully human, but they are distinct persons at the same time. They know each other and communicate in 'family talk', they can usually act on the other's behalf. That's God in miniature. But God! In God this is all much bigger. The members of the 'god-head' know each other so intimately and communicate in such closeness as they are a unity of purpose, thought and will. They are one for all and all for one, as per the three musketeers. What the Father says, the Son does and the Spirit empowers.
I have a personal view on the Trinity that may not be quite acceptable to Catholics, but here goes. First, the Trinity is, strictly speaking, illogical. There is a rule of equivalence in formal logic called the Transitive Law. It goes like this: If A is equal to B, and B is equal to C, then A is equal to C. The Trinity explicitly denies this law by saying that The Father is God, and the Son is God, but the Father is not the Son. Same with the Holy Spirit. However, I think part of the point of the doctrine is that it conveys the mystery of God, as you said. It keeps us ever mindful that God is beyond mere human intellectual comprehension. But I think it also points to something else. It points to the fact that God is a unity, but unity implies plurality (everything ultimately implies its opposite). For there to be any dynamism to the universe, it must consist of separate things, yet also be one thing. I think it also implies something about our relationship to God. We are not God, but yet...here comes the hard to swallow part...we are. I AM not I AM. If God is all powerful, then everything made came from him, and must, necessarily, be of his same essence. We are made in the image of God. God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and man became a living soul. We have the spirit of Christ dwelling in us. Jesus' prayer in his final hours was that his disciples would be one as he and the Father are one, he in them, the Father in Him, and they in the Father. We are at once not God and yet we are. God is separate and infinitely far above us, the Supreme Good at which we aim and strive to attain. But God is also as near as our own breath, synonymous with the inner most part of us, our true self.
You should explain it in a logical way. Like a tesseract/ 4th dimension. It is logical but unfathomable.
it's not logical tho that's the thing
i love, DIVINE LOVE @ THE TRUTH .GOD IS DIVINE LOVE. HUman love is emotions created by nerotransmitters.
Jesus is not God. The Teaching of the "Trinity God" is man made.
The churchfathers couldn't figure out that the Father - who is a spirit ("God is a spirit") - is inside Jesus and simply is called "Holy Spirit" by Him (see the Jesus' sermon about the TWO blasphemies - directed to Son and Father - where the Father was called "Holy Spirit"). The Father - who is a spirit - helped Jesus in the desert and also later when speaking. Thus no third person exists.