The risk-reward advice is so important. In reality, you'd do this with a solo performance too -- pick pieces you are comfortable with but which also display your greatness.
Him playing the Schumann Scherzo insanely fast was such a flex, 😂. All violinists auditioning with that piece playing it under tempo just got so sad. (Me) 😅.
came here after I won a small audition yesterday (well it’s important for me but rather small on a bigger scale of things) and my friend who is playing gorgeously and way better than me lost, and the question why did it happen was bothering me. seems like I’m a very “in the box” type of player and she’s very outside, very creative. I honestly envy her for a unique and fresh way she plays and it saddens me that it’s not appreciated in orchestras, so I actually wonder what other way is there for her to express herself? maybe more chamber music and self organised projects, but that needs more funds and is a lot harder than having a stable job. and as for me I guess I need to keep looking for my own voice to improve and become a more expressive musician…
Ah the fine art of orchestral violin playing! Of always fitting in the box, of not sticking out even one millimeter over the edge of any note which the concert master plays, always playing one degree less… It’s a good skill to learn and to have, but after a few years of playing in a major symphony orchestra, I found it can become just so stifling. For me as a rank and file player, a lot of physical tension started building up in trying to stay in the box the whole time. I guess I never resigned to it-. Plus never got enough time to really practise well during that time. It was always like: how do you get all those nasty passages down in the shortest amount of time, plus stay in the box?! But it was a super good experience. Nathan play everything with such control and ease. So there’s got to be way to be both, a superlative, masterful violinist AND an killer orchestra player :) The way he plays those excerpts just sounds so good… Thanks for this enlightening video, Nathan 🙏
Thank you for offering such useful suggestions, I appreciate what you have shared! I like the trust-building concept you mentioned, it was interesting to think about
Your videos (and playing) give great advice. To compare it to what used to be: I decided on a whim to audition for the NY phil about the time I got my doctorate at Juilliard. I should have known better. My Mozart concerto exposition and Brahms Concerto went went very well: then Don Juan! In the second line i played a wrong note (I had practiced that way) and the "thank you" came. I had no coaching on any of the excerpts. I figured i could just sight read the La Mer excerpt since it was so "easy". Anyway, I had never wanted to play in an orchestra anyway, having been humiliated in a Juilliard orchestra rehearsal by then (grad student) Jorge Mester for looking at him (believe it or not!) . I ended up playing first violin in an in residence string quartet at Duke University, Then in a university teaching position at Baylor University.
So, out of curiosity, how tall are you, Nathan? I was truly surprised, because I watched a ton of your videos and also studied with you at the Artist Works and I always saw you as a tall man (to my subjective eye 180+ cm)
Really nice video! Super interesting tips on practicing! Could you please share which microphone and related stuff to achieve a similar sound quality? That would be very helpful! thanks a lot!!!!
your box method is great. I use it for my golf swing all the time, but I've heard it called the "Goldilocks Method" (it's too hot, too cold, just right). Being able to feel what is "just right" requires you to be able to do too much or too little to feel what is "just right". Great vid!
Are you able to do a video on Don Juan excerpts that are beyond the 1st page? Also things that are more advanced like Mahler Symphony 5, Mvt 1: 7-11, Mahler Symphony 1, 4th mvmt: 15-19, Mozart symphony 39 2nd mvmt: 96-126 , Prokofiev Classical Symphony 1st page and 4th movement etc...
Is double dotting in the opening 1st movt of Mozart 39 playing within the box? And what about playing the accompaniment in the Rachmaninoff 2nd so that the quarter note after the 1/8 note is short. So it sounds like two 1/8th notes. This is to get out of the way of the main theme.
Would it be fair to say that one should be having taste and conservative ? So, it's not a place to be creative, artist, innovative ? BTW: great sound and great recording quality !
Is your chin rest and shoulder rest well optimized? Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is to try to go to the extremes. So for example try to play with a very relaxed left arm/neck. If you can't do that while holding a violin, then it's a body problem. Try to feel inside of your body and notice and percieve your muscles to relax. If you can do it without violin, great! Now just add the violin. Try to practice the extremes. Experiment. What happens if you let happen your fear. What keeps you from relaxing your left arm? Try to let happen your bottom of the ceiling (as mentioned in the video about the box) and work on raising the bottom of your ceiling. In this case, it is way more important to raise your bottom rather than your ceiling of your box.
Hi Deb, look up teaching videos by Grigor Kalanofsky (Russian origin Proffessor teaching in Indiana). Have just watched a whole teaching video where he addresses tension of all sorts when playing violin and how to avoid it. Very detailed. Very 'explanatory'. "Taming Tension" was in the video title. Best regards. G Ire (adult student)
This is very helpful indeed. (All other things being equal, don't orchestra conductors look for a particular sound that will "blend" well with the other players? Also, how can the committee judge whether a player can adjust very quickly to changing circumstances, since no two performances are alike?)
That’s the tricky part! Often a player will be given a “trial” week to help determine these questions. Also normally, a player isn’t given tenure until a year or two has passed. But it’s not always obvious from the audition!
I heard the people who win auditions are the ones who sound like a violin section. Nobody sounds exactly like a violin section but there are players like Nathan who remind you of what one sounds like.
The risk-reward advice is so important. In reality, you'd do this with a solo performance too -- pick pieces you are comfortable with but which also display your greatness.
I feel so illegal watching this for free 😂 Thank you so much for everything you've done for the violinists community!
I haven't heard that one before! Thanks for the kind words.
Him playing the Schumann Scherzo insanely fast was such a flex, 😂. All violinists auditioning with that piece playing it under tempo just got so sad. (Me) 😅.
Professional harpist here - love this "box" as well as the ceiling and floor concept. Very helpful even in non-audition contexts.
Great, I hoped this would be non-instrument-specific so good to hear!
Your Mr. Burns was spot on. 😂
That was a great video. Thank you!
thank you professor cole for providing such useful instruction for FREE here on youtube
came here after I won a small audition yesterday (well it’s important for me but rather small on a bigger scale of things) and my friend who is playing gorgeously and way better than me lost, and the question why did it happen was bothering me. seems like I’m a very “in the box” type of player and she’s very outside, very creative. I honestly envy her for a unique and fresh way she plays and it saddens me that it’s not appreciated in orchestras, so I actually wonder what other way is there for her to express herself? maybe more chamber music and self organised projects, but that needs more funds and is a lot harder than having a stable job. and as for me I guess I need to keep looking for my own voice to improve and become a more expressive musician…
I also really needed some thought on the last Brahms excerpt so thanks for mentioning it and giving some tips :)))
Ah the fine art of orchestral violin playing!
Of always fitting in the box, of not sticking out even one millimeter over the edge of any note which the concert master plays, always playing one degree less…
It’s a good skill to learn and to have, but after a few years of playing in a major symphony orchestra, I found it can become just so stifling. For me as a rank and file player, a lot of physical tension started building up in trying to stay in the box the whole time. I guess I never resigned to it-. Plus never got enough time to really practise well during that time. It was always like: how do you get all those nasty passages down in the shortest amount of time, plus stay in the box?! But it was a super good experience.
Nathan play everything with such control and ease. So there’s got to be way to be both, a superlative, masterful violinist AND an killer orchestra player :)
The way he plays those excerpts just sounds so good…
Thanks for this enlightening video, Nathan 🙏
Master class for any musician who does performance 🙏🏿
👏👏👏👏👏👏
What an amazing formula! So helpful as always! Thank you Nathan!
Thank you for offering such useful suggestions, I appreciate what you have shared! I like the trust-building concept you mentioned, it was interesting to think about
Great video with excellent information. Thank you very much.
This is a great strategy for every day practicing of a piece. Thank you.
Very interesting Nathan. Thankyou.
Your videos (and playing) give great advice. To compare it to what used to be: I decided on a whim to audition for the NY phil about the time I got my doctorate at Juilliard. I should have known better. My Mozart concerto exposition and Brahms Concerto went went very well: then Don Juan! In the second line i played a wrong note (I had practiced that way) and the "thank you" came. I had no coaching on any of the excerpts. I figured i could just sight read the La Mer excerpt since it was so "easy". Anyway, I had never wanted to play in an orchestra anyway, having been humiliated in a Juilliard orchestra rehearsal by then (grad student) Jorge Mester for looking at him (believe it or not!) . I ended up playing first violin in an in residence string quartet at Duke University, Then in a university teaching position at Baylor University.
Great story Bruce, and I’m thankful not every bad audition story is the end of the road! :)
Excellent video, very insightful! Thank you so much for sharing your experience and skill with us here.
Wow, this is great! Thank you so much
This is so helpful, thank you for this
So, out of curiosity, how tall are you, Nathan? I was truly surprised, because I watched a ton of your videos and also studied with you at the Artist Works and I always saw you as a tall man (to my subjective eye 180+ cm)
Really nice video! Super interesting tips on practicing! Could you please share which microphone and related stuff to achieve a similar sound quality? That would be very helpful! thanks a lot!!!!
The download link doesn’t work - would you be willing to post your marked part again?
your box method is great. I use it for my golf swing all the time, but I've heard it called the "Goldilocks Method" (it's too hot, too cold, just right). Being able to feel what is "just right" requires you to be able to do too much or too little to feel what is "just right". Great vid!
very helpful
Are you able to do a video on Don Juan excerpts that are beyond the 1st page? Also things that are more advanced like Mahler Symphony 5, Mvt 1: 7-11, Mahler Symphony 1, 4th mvmt: 15-19, Mozart symphony 39 2nd mvmt: 96-126 , Prokofiev Classical Symphony 1st page and 4th movement etc...
Is double dotting in the opening 1st movt of Mozart 39 playing within the box? And what about playing the accompaniment in the Rachmaninoff 2nd so that the quarter note after the 1/8 note is short. So it sounds like two 1/8th notes. This is to get out of the way of the main theme.
Would it be fair to say that one should be having taste and conservative ? So, it's not a place to be creative, artist, innovative ?
BTW: great sound and great recording quality !
Why don't the best players win auditions? Except in the case of the Boston Symphony concertmaster audition, when it did happen? 😂
Great video. Should be obvious everything you are saying, but it isn't necessarily. Thanks.
Agreed! Everything I’ve learned now seems obvious, but it definitely wasn’t beforehand. Even if some folks seemed to think it was…
Gosh darn it. I have too much tension. My neck and left arm is too tense 😢😢😢😢. I have tried many things . Seems it won't change😢😢😢😢
Is your chin rest and shoulder rest well optimized? Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is to try to go to the extremes. So for example try to play with a very relaxed left arm/neck. If you can't do that while holding a violin, then it's a body problem. Try to feel inside of your body and notice and percieve your muscles to relax. If you can do it without violin, great! Now just add the violin. Try to practice the extremes. Experiment. What happens if you let happen your fear. What keeps you from relaxing your left arm? Try to let happen your bottom of the ceiling (as mentioned in the video about the box) and work on raising the bottom of your ceiling. In this case, it is way more important to raise your bottom rather than your ceiling of your box.
Hi Deb, look up teaching videos by Grigor Kalanofsky (Russian origin Proffessor teaching in Indiana). Have just watched a whole teaching video where he addresses tension of all sorts when playing violin and how to avoid it. Very detailed. Very 'explanatory'. "Taming Tension" was in the video title. Best regards. G Ire (adult student)
This is very helpful indeed. (All other things being equal, don't orchestra conductors look for a particular sound that will "blend" well with the other players? Also, how can the committee judge whether a player can adjust very quickly to changing circumstances, since no two performances are alike?)
That’s the tricky part! Often a player will be given a “trial” week to help determine these questions. Also normally, a player isn’t given tenure until a year or two has passed. But it’s not always obvious from the audition!
I heard the people who win auditions are the ones who sound like a violin section. Nobody sounds exactly like a violin section but there are players like Nathan who remind you of what one sounds like.
Full disclosure: I also missed a shift after watching that video 🙂
😆
I wonder do we 'make' our own luck by being a well-rounded, experienced player? G Ire
Do the G 🎻 sounds better 🙂
Yeah that’s my favorite!
Audition is lot about luck. Unfortunately.
Also who you know, and knowledge of the orchestra’s style.