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Agreed 100% on the ab obsession. That combined with the lack of patience will keep you a “hardgainer”. Reflecting on your program, particularly volume and proximity to failure is key, along with setting weight gain goals/measurements to adjust your diet and or training over time.
For me its the other way around, ive got a really low bodyfat % but if i would train abs some more they would stand out waaay more. Just cant get myself to train them at the end of every workout
@@Requilith Thats really not true. People like Greg Doucette🤡 always say that. Geoffrey actually even made a video about nonsense like that. Ofcourse abs are partially “made in the kitchen”. But if youre below 16-18% bodyfat anyone can have abs if they train them hard enough. The statement “if you have no abs youre fat” is so untrue, I myself have bodyfat of like 12% and I have veins all over my body, but my abs aren’t that visible and blocky because I dont train them a lot
The food issue is a big one. I've found "hardgainers" hide behind that a lot. "I'm eating a lot" usually goes hand in hand with "I'm afraid of getting fat and moving my body weight over 137 pounds."
@@markbaker4425 Depending on the size of the bags and the Bowl that could be between 3000 and 4000 kcal, so it's not bad. Without speaking about the health and anabolic effect ofc, those are horrible with such a diet.
Love ALL of this! I will say for context, my comments come from having seen the 'Hardgainer' mentality first hand. I was an avid HG proponent back in the early 2000s, I even wrote for the original Stuart McRobert magazine. But I saw the streak of mediocrity in those circles early on and left. I still see people from that community 20 years later who made zero progress, which is a sad waste of the best years a training life all to be loyal to a failed belief system. Geoffrey is right on the money here. Edit - Also, go buy his ebook!
You should make a video about what you think the "HG mentality" is and why you think it's wrong. I think it may have change since the 2000s Because from what I know, the principles seems to be sound: - Get progressively stronger in a medium rep range on exercises that suit you. (The big 3 are not pushed at all) - Use the amount of volume that makes you progress and that you can recover from. - focus on big compounds exercises and with a bit of isolation. A variety of approach can fall in those guidelines. What I have a problem with is the HIT zealot and black and white thinking that you ONLY need one set to failure to grow. Maybe it's what you are refering too.
@@mathieuc.2789 I agree. I think it's totally fine to realise you're a naturally skinny person or that you're having trouble building muscle… and then adopt good hypertrophy training principles to make it as easy as possible to solve that problem, exactly as you've described: get stronger at big lifts that suit you, focus most of your energy on sets of 6-20 reps, train with enough volume, eat enough calories, eats foods that make it easier to eat more calories, get enough sleep. There's no failure mindset inherent in that, just like there's no failure mindset in realising you're someone who tends to overeat and gain fat. I think it often helps to take your predispositions into account so that you can leverage or overcome them.
@@tobyh3681 not true. Protein is very overrated in fitness community. I made the mistake as a skinny guy to focus on getting as much protein as i can and made very small progress but as soon as i started focusing on getting enough calories through pizza ice cream etc i blew up and made massive muscle gains.
People are drawn to extremes. Some do it with volume, others with effort, some others with exercise selection. This guy picked conservativism as his gimmick. Ive seen this before, some "wise" man having a hardon for slowing things down to crippled snail level. "You think patience is important for good results? Well, lets see if you can be THIS patient!!! 😎😎" humans just piss me the F off.
Man the meme clips inbetween you talking always gets me😂😂 It is defo one of the many things that make you stand out in ytb fitness together with some others
I found your channel yesterday and honestly after watching Greg , MPMD and so on for years, I finally found someone who can teach me smth new. I've already watched about 20 of your vids and I just got your book as well. Keep putting great content. Cant wait to read the book and watch more of your work. Thank you!
I have been working out in some form or another for close to 50 years. I have seen a lot of the newsstand muscle mags and when the magazine ' Hardgainer ' came out it was a breath of fresh air from all the other garbage magazines. It had some highly respected strength and conditioning coaches in the USA who were big supporters and writers in it e.g. Dr ken Leistiner founder of the famous Iron Island gym who was a friend of Dave Draper and Bill Pearl both bodybuilding legends. He was also good friends of Kim Wood a long time strength and conditioning coach in the NFL . I don't believe Dr Ken or any of the highly respected Strength and Conditioning coaches who wrote for the Hardgainer mag would disagree with anything you have said. You were pretty well right on.
Natural bodybuilder Ian Duckett was also a supporter and contributor to the Hardgainer magazine. His book True Grit for Natural bodybuilder was an excellent book.
I agree 100%. I started I lifting in 1982 when I was 15. No internet. Just muscle magazines. Most of us had some kind of weightlifting book that covered the basic exercises. The book recommended 8 to 12 repetitions to failure, two to three sets per exercise. Three times a week. And eat four to six meals a day and get plenty of sleep. Basically what we call bro science now. But it worked. And no one was stressing about their abs. We all just wanted to get big and strong. This hard gainer stuff is pretty new and the result of social media confusion and ab anxiety. I've never met a true hard gainer. Meaning, somebody who has some kind of genetic issue that prevents them from gaining mass, even when they do everything right. But everyone's genetics for size is different. For example, I just can't get big. At about 165 lb my body says we're done. No amount of eating, sleeping and working out can get me past that. However I gained muscle very quickly up until that point (125 to 165 in two years). Which is what is supposed to happen when you lift hard and eat a lot of food.
I've met exactly one 'hardgainer' in my life. Someone I used to know who I asked why he didnt work out and he informed me he had something called marfans so it would be a pointless endeavour.
Great advice as always Geoff!! Hard-gainer here, and I can safely say that all of this advice rings true. The more I’ve focused on increasing my volume, nailing my diet, and recovering well, the more I’ve been able to train well and make legit gains!
I’ve classified myself this way. Training about 4 years and have transformed my body, but haven’t put on very much weight. Terrified to eat too much, ok with upping my weight every 4 weeks…this is a video I needed.
fr man, I pretty much "gaintained" for a year without seeing any progress, started bulking and have added 30kg to my DL, 10kg to my bench 30kg, to my legpress etc. in 6 months
@@eshay it was 10kg over my previous best, actual increase was 15kg but maybe thats shit too. I'm doing evolving repranges-ish, adding reps here and there and adding weight ~ every 4 weeks. I'm trying to follow NH's advice not to stress weight progress too hard and focus more on sustained progress rather than running into a wall all the time, but maybe thats redacted. If you have any advice on better methods I would appreciate it
@@eshay those are pretty much my current numbers, tried forcing starting strength level progress for a while but after about a month I couldnt keep up on most exercises
Number 10 is spot on, I swear your muscles actually get bigger when you're feelin it. When you're looking in the mirror posing and thinking "look at this beast", even if you're small, you're doing good.
Agreed. Just yesterday a girl at work asked me for fitness advice because her friend with skinny abs keeps giving her horrible advice but "she thinks hes really small and doesnt actually have muscle". I don't have abs and im the one normal people ask lifting/diet advice from. Remember that next time your afraid to bulk
Thank you again for your book, the amount of things that I've learned within those 200 pages is priceless. Instead of giving us fish, you've taught us how to fish. :) I truly believe that someone who is committed and consistent with his training, and applies the information that you've given us can become an advanced athlete by himself, without a coach. Because you've taught us how to coach ourselves. I'll always be grateful and I wish you success with your personal goals!
I thought I was a hard gainer until I saw your video on not being afraid to put on a few pounds of fat. So I started truly bulking. Not "lean bulking", actual "eat everything" bulking. I'm making progress that I didn't think was possible for me. I still think I'm on the hard gainer side, but this and Andrew Hubberman's podcast on sleep changed my game considerably. Am I chubby? Sure. I'll cut later.
The self belief part is what in my experience holds us back, I had to disassociate from "hard gainer" and "ectomorph" for a while to just enjoy the effort of getting stronger.
I used to be a hardgainer. Then I started eating more and training well. Ab obsession was at a max. Happened to conside with my G shred phase... wonder why. Also, the number of supps that work is the same number that HTLT sells.
Bruh, your videos just keep getting better! Just love to hear those words of wisdom. Was about to rant about the section where you talked about "Don't puss out deadlifting because SFR!", but then i realized, that you are talking about fresh starters xD
Yea if someone is strong at deadlifts, totally different story and a strong argument to avoid them or at least limit how much they are included in a hypertrophy plan.
So relatable, in my first 3 hears of training I was exactly like this, know I figured out how to do stuff properly, and the main set were the most important thing in my case, I just don’t fear failure anymore, in my mind overcoming it is only another opportunity for me to become stronger mentally, and every fear in my mind gets instantly debunked, as I know already that the only limit I could have, is my own limitations in head, which tends to be exasperated and unreal
Looking at Bald Omni Man and NH, I don’t see why you can’t have good ab definition even if you don’t obsess with having the lowest possible body fat. They both knew how to grow their abs so that even at a bulk and higher body fat percentage, their abs are thick and visible. I’m more so impressed by that than by those who clearly look malnourished while showing off their midsection.
@@jonathand9682 Extraordinary discipline yes. But blessed in what regard? If you mean they have good genetics, then I disagree. Both NH and Bald Omni have average bases. They just trained for many many years. Same thing with Alphadestiny. People need to stop using this excuse that all the elite naturals have amazing genetics or something, like Greg was saying oh Alex has great genetics, no he doesn't he's completely average and has said so himself on multiple occasions. Does Greg know Alex's genetic profile better than him? No. Not every guy who is jacked and strong is blessed. People with such genes are rare, I feel weak lazy losers always use this as a cop out. Not saying that that's what you meant by blessed but using it as an example because there are people who use it as an excuse all the time.
I've seldom seen a proper explanation of the asymptotic relationship between Time and Training Progress; well said. Found your channel recently, and have been pleasantly surprised with your content, training knowledge, wit, and unique sense of humor. Keep it up!
A lot of this advice is geared towards the timid individual. I remember my situation was the opposite. I was ready for gains by any means necessary and I would often push myself to the point of breaking. Grind and pain was nothing. I can remember eating so much that I would throw up after a meal and then just go right back to eating more to shovel the food down. It wasn’t until I started doing what I would consider a bunch of very easy pump work really frequently that I started making my best gains.
The biggest problem there is the "easily accomplish". You can get proper adaptation after a workout with light weight but that guy was getting nowhere near failure. If you don't want to increase intensity with weight you can't skip adding it with reps.
I think one thing not mentioned in this a lot of people think they are hardgainers but in reality they are just comparing themselves to instagrammers who are either fake-natties or just straight lying about their transformations. In reality they trained for 5 years but they claim it was 6 months or they was already built but just got a bit fat before burning it back off etc. I used to think this, I'm a 92kg man who trains hard and eats well. I've always been heavy and I've been training for 3 years now. I see people speak about how at my weight after 3 years training I should be repping 100kg bench, I should be repping 200kg deadlift etc. You see instgrammers go from "untrained" to pressing 120kg like it's nothing in what they claim is 6 months, StrengthStandards says in 2 years someone my weight should have a 115kg 1rm on bench. You look at all this and you go "what am I doing wrong? Can I just not build muscle?". But this year, reality hit me. At my gym, in real life how many people do I actually see repping 100kg bench and 200kg deadlift? How many people do I actually see chucking 180kg on the squat? Sure there are some, but it's certainly not the majority and when you do you usually look over like "damn that's some big numbers". Most people aren't hardgainers, they just had a skewed perspective on what realistic progression is. They think if they aren't benching 100kg in a year there a hardgainer but no, that's just reality.
Reason #10 applies to everything in life! You have to be willing to fail and learn so you can persevere. Can be something as simple as learning how to barbecue well or something more complex like driving a boat.
One of the most enlightening experiences I had was dropping the bar on a back squat. I had just added weight, done one set and dropped it during the second set. Removed some weight and continued. No one cared. Now I am pretty okay with failing a lift. Also. I have lost a lot of weight. Now I am pretty afraid of getting fat so eating enough makes me a little scared.
Finally got my copy of your book. Haven't read it all yet, but i think it is nice to support your work in that way too. Idea for future: Home gym training plan with just barbell and dumbells - The only thing that is missing for me, but hopefully after reading your book through i will be able to update my current plan in a way that makes more sense than before :)
The point you brought up about extremely high reps being shit for beginners is very valid. Particularly as a beginner with little to no coordination, if you can do 30 reps of a movement, odds are your could probably get 50 or 60 if you went to failure. They stop at 30 because that's when either the burn becomes too much or, seeing rep speed slow slightly, they perceive they're close to failure. It's understood that, for hypertrophy, the really hard reps (say 1 to 3 RiR) do the lion's share in stimulating growth. "Hardgainers " never get close to this training like this. This is why starting strength and the like have been so beneficial to so many beginners. For squats, even though it's only 3 sets of 5 reps, each rep is challenging as fuck and highly stimulating. Everyone should start out with something like SS, but then move on once the program has done its job (don't do what I've heard RIP suggest and take up to 10-15 minutes rest between work sets just to hit the arbitrary reps for the arbitrary weight jump which equates to "progress").
Yep, agree 100%. Training to failure in low to moderate reps is HARD. High reps? Even more grueling. It's just not something almost anyone actually does as a beginner, plus due to the recruitment thresholds, the failure is even more important.
Definitely agree with supplements. Most of the time it's the trainer's fault who sells beginners useless supplements for commission. When the client asks why he isn't getting results the trainer says, "it's time for the good stuff 💉"
These are great points, but I feel like most of them are aimed at a cautious person, not a hardgainer. I'm a hardgainer. For the past twelve years, all of my clients have been hardgainers. A small percentage of us are timid, but I don't think it's a larger percentage than the general population. In fact, in my experience, skinny guys are often really desperate to build muscle, no matter the cost or risk or effort. They're happy to train hard, push to failure, and put in a ton of work. If they're weak, it might not look like much, but they're really giving it their all. The ab anxiety thing can happen, and you described that dilemma well. It can be hard to give up your only good body part. But a lot of us take our abs for granted, too, considering they're so easy to have, so quick to get back. And not eating enough ABSOLUTELY happens, but you kind of glossed over it, almost like it's a simple fact we forgot to consider. But we aren't failing to eat enough from some sort of misunderstanding about how much we're supposed to eat. Almost all of us KNOW we're supposed to eat more. But we seem to have smaller appetites, smaller stomachs, and more adaptive metabolisms. It's much HARDER to eat enough, it's easy to fall off the wagon, and it never happens by accident. When I would eat a big meal, I would get full halfway through, and then when I would force it down, I'd acid reflux. It wouldn't physically fit in my stomach. And then I'd see another dude eating TWO of those meals and then ordering dessert because he wants to keep eating more. My stomach eventually got bigger, and eating more often solves some of those issues, but it was a rough time for a long time. I think it's very similar to overweight people struggling to lose weight and keep it off. They know they need to eat less, but damn is it ever hard, especially when they need to keep it up for the rest of their lives.
Liquid calories have been around for a very long time in the form of shakes/powders and soda pop. Also abs are an amazing body part, a person needs to first understand their function and how adding muscle and strength makes them more functional. Also when lifting workouts are programmed for progressive overload, the human body automatically steps up metabolism to compensate and subsequently asks for more fuel to sustain this increase. Your clients would benefit immensely from their coach broadening their knowledge base.
@@jonathand9682 I'm not really understanding your criticism. I know liquid calories aren't anything new. They still help. I'm not sure why a technique being conventional would make it less effective. I think more often than not, the conventional approach is often the more effective one. When I talk about "losing abs" I'm not talking about losing ab muscle, I'm talking about losing sight of my abs because I'm gaining a few body-fat percentage points. I agree that building bigger, stronger abs is great. No argument from me there. No, not everyone automatically eats more calories when focusing on progressive overload. I don't doubt that's true for a lot of people, but I've always focused on progressive overload, and I still find it very difficult to gain weight. That's never played into it. If that were true, skinny guys who train hard wouldn't have any issue gaining weight, but they often do. On the other hand, when some people try to eat more calories, their non-exercise activity thermogenesis revs up, making their metabolisms much faster. Someone might start off bulking at 3,000 calories, and a month later they're maintaining their weight at 4,000 calories. When that happens, it can be hard to keep up.
I and some people that I coached got great results for arm and shoulder hypertrophy with high rep ranges (20 or more). You can do a lot for arms and shoulders with lower weights.
Hmmm, I said this on your insta when you posted it. But just to reiterate. I feel like sometimes going slower than you think you need to at first can you let you go faster later in the process. For the bench, dialing in your form at a ridiculously low intensity and rate of progression will slowly, but meaningfully build confidence, and then like three months down the line you can suddenly explode in strength. That’s my experience at least, but it definitely requires patience and a degree of faith. And it is definitely not something you want to stick with forever. But I must say, going super slow sometimes keeps me in the game.
The problem for many of us that store fat in the stomach instead of the legs is that 20% bodyfat doesn't look very good. So we want to be 12-15% which brings some issues. But many of you can still look very good at 20% body fat if you store all the fat in your legs mostly, or arms.
I store everything in my waist and a little on chest. My arms are almost fatless which hurts their fullness lol and my legs have veins on my thighs and fkn calves everywhere..but oh no I can't get rid of the fkn love handles unless i start dropping sub 14%.. I gave up currently and just bulk slowly (2kg per month ) and plan on doing so for another 4 months then see if i wanna cut and reveal whatever I'll have built.
Great video Geoff, the bit about the abs is 100% correct. Disagree on the rep speed portion. Personally I find a 4 second eccentric and 4 second concentric satisfactory. It eliminates the desired to jerk the weight around and leads to greater stress on the muscle. I also find it safer: I used to dive bomb in my high bar squats and then thought squats were bad b/c of the ensuing knee pain. But it instead it was my application of the negative portion of the squat, a 4 second negative into the bottom position eliminated the knee pain. Great video though, i don't disagree with anything else.
I've never considered myself a hardgainer, and I'm someone who will only let go of abs but so much though part of that is the reason I started training serious was to be lean, not necessarily to be big. However, it's gonna be a new day as Menno Henselmans estimates have me at 95% or more of my potential on all major measurements with not even 3 serious years in yet so I CANNOT WAIT to play my hardgainer hand when I'm 172 lbs 10% BF 😤
The slow reps things kills me... 80% of people in the gym do what I call "weighted tai chi" and still wonder why they look like the spaghetti man... blame it also on the many gym staff monitors that advice to newbies things like "do it slow and controlled. Control the weight, do not let the weight control you"... and newbies use these" not too bad advice in the appropriate context" as an excuse to be lazy...
I agree with 90% of what you said, but as a older man with a few bad joints, I can tell you slow and steady is not a bad idea. I was too aggressive and now I have to work around a shoulder that is taking it’s time to heal. Yes, I add reps or weight to each lift every workout.
The free cafeteria is a blessing for newb gains. Freshman year of college I had two free meals a day of cafeteria food: triple burgers, pasta, pizza chocalate milkshakes and burritos. A skinny guy my high school cross country team who got jacked taught how to lift as well that year. First time in my life I gained like 20-25 lbs in a year.
You and Bald omni man encouraged me to let go the fear of "becoming fat", i bulked for 3 months and gained 8kgs and very little fat, best decision ever. Your content Is Golden!
I suck at bench pressing. Wing span wider than my height and a bad left shoulder. But jeez even I had a better progression than those guys I see in the gym doing these micro-adjustments. I often see guys doing 5-6 reps per set though not 12-15. I think for a beginner it is easier to reach a higher RPE when doing low-ish reps. I see a lot more struggle in general. High reps is for intermediate to advanced. For people who start to like the pain at some point 😅
Number 10 is the hardest. Putting on fat and going to fall-on-my-ass failure on squats wasn't a problem for me, but muscle growth just didn't come - and when it did it was well below "what you should expect in your first year of training". 10 pounds would have been a godsend. How are you supposed to believe in yourself when there is no evidence that you should? It becomes a pretty nasty cycle and "it's okay to be weak, training is a solution for that, but don't be weak minded" doesn't give a solution either, it just points out the (real) problem. The solution for me was to train without getting results and value how hard I worked, not whether it did anything. Did I put on 20 pounds of muscle? Absolutely not. 3 years in, I still haven't. Did I put on some? Yes, even though it came so slow that I didn't notice. Would I have put on that muscle if I hadn't busted my ass? No. People who keep getting big are usually the people who are good at getting big in the beginning. They get addicted to size gains, or PRs, and by the time those are hard to come by, the gym is a habit. When those gains don't come, you have to find something else to motivate you, and that's a tough fucking thing when the entire industry is telling you that you aren't cut out for this.
I had this problem until funnily enough I found your channel and Revival Fitness. You two are the reason I gave up on abs and decided to go full on into getting stronger, and because of that my lifts have shot up in the last 6 months. Oh and guess what I'm eating 3500+ calories now and slowly gaining weight. Before this I thought I couldnt eat over 2500 without gaining too fast. Bulking has been the best thing I have ever done, the worst thing lifters do is undereat and not train hard enough.
@@zxnnyxz03 I eat mostly whole foods, but if you have trouble getting food down I highly recommend throwing in peanut butter somewhere in your day. It's easy to eat and can pack a ton of calories. I opt out of jelly for the simple reason of I dont like eating lots of sugar, but PB&J is a great way to pack in calories.
You are right, but I am happy when people go to the gym, do cardio and lift weights even if they do not maximize their progress. The best is the enemy of the good.
I'm afraid of the bench press and the barbell squat. I asked the PT to show me the bench but I've not actually done a working set. I'm doing dumbbell press and machine press but no barbell bench. As for the squat, I'm doing goblet squats but I'm planning on trying the barbell squat maybe front squat so I stay upright as possible. I'm doing pull-ups, dips, pulldowns, overhead press and deadlift. I'm still a bit timid on the deadlift cause I'm 42 and I tweaked my back a bit. I really thought I hurt myself but i was fine. I am telling myself I'm still getting used to the movement and I'm not 100% on form but I'm beginning to rethink this and other things because of these videos. Of course I'm not going to go crazy but I think it's time I learned. One of the other staff said I work hard so that was very encouraging.
Started lifting at like 135lbs, gained 20lbs in the first 6 months despite eating at maintenance or even a deficit (I suspect) at times. Due to my initial progress I believed that I could continue to “recomp” or put on muscle while not putting on fat. Needless to say, this led to a lot of wheel spinning. Hey, at least I was lean with a six pack. 😂 Eventually, I had enough of spinning my wheels, and the COVID lockdowns where I had a lot of time to train was the catalyst that encouraged me to finally bulk. Went from like 155lbs-185lbs in two years, and got a hell of a lot stronger! I really did fall in love with my strength, size and all the compliments people were giving me, and it really showed me how important it is to bulk as a lifter. Right now, I’m cutting rather aggressively for the summer to something relative lean, but I’ll slow it down so I can get to something legitimately lean so I can see just how much I’ve built. I guess the moral of the story is to not be afraid to eat! Fat loss is no big deal in comparison to muscle and strength building.
Like a lot of people I started lifting at 15 before the internet. School gym "traditional" equipment. It was the football coach teaching a class that was an alternative to regular gym class (which we all know sucksss) Everyone did the same program, from nerds to jocks all different levels. We all made crazy gains. The basics work great but you have to be willing to use more weight than you think you need. I currently lift with no spotter and it sucks but always tell myself i can reduce weight as easily as adding it and i think I've only said "uh ohhhh" at the squat rack once.
Funny thing really,the "under eating"was making sense with the "write it down"...i wrote it down,one dinner consisted of 2 waffles,a croissant and a nice glass of water.But what i really think is what made me consider myself a hardgainer is the fact i was just an inpatient person,i see my lifting Numbers go up but not mutch gain on the weight scale or in the mirror and feel bad,but i geuss specialy with my training hypertrophy comes slower then strength.
I have bench pressed 15 times till today and I've been bench pressing for around mounths the first time I tried bench I did a pyramid set starting from 30KG and ending to 45KG, then I got obsest and in every workout I did bench first and always I was putting 2,5kg plate (5KG) more(every week) and I made one rep more in every atemp, now I'm benching 65KG for 2 reps with a preper warm up ate 15-16 and 53KG 174cm
Yep; I would describe myself as an ultra-hardgainer, but I don't know why you said I wouldn't like your video. I agree with everything you said, and have not done any of that stuff. Except one thing I don't agree with - where you had printed on the screen that it is either under training or under eating. If I train more and/or harder (I train real hard anyway), I get smaller and weaker. If I eat more I put on fat, not muscle. Been training over 45 years. Can't give up, because I'd be even weaker (I'm naturally very weak). I was able to deadlift 190kg (420lb) for 5 reps, though. I think that was good at a bodyweight of around 175lb. I maintained that up to age 50, but my back is pretty shot now, so have problems even doing light deadlifts. Not good.
I’m 7 months in and benching 185 for reps and I have a 265 squat atg and 365 deadlift, I have gained no weight as well (I am 220lb). It’s not hard to get bigger and stronger if you eat, the only lift that I’ve had any trouble with is my squats. Hit a bit of a wall and made a decision to switch from my 5x5 to 20reps and honestly I feel so much better after just a week of it, my glutes and quads are sore but my back feels great for the first time in a month.
Program had me adding weight every 4 weeks and while I typically could, the tendon pain was real. I’ve lowered the weight and am feeling noticeably better.
With the slow reps thing, I made more progress with this because it forced me to think about time under tension. It's not that hard to reach failure with 3-5 second slow reps as long as the weight isn't too light. In fact, 1 hard set to failure on bicep curls with slow reps make me more sore than an entire 'normal rep' bicep workout Plus less pain in my tendons from using lighter weights
I have definitely thought of myself as a hardgainer in the past. And to be fair to myself I do have very below average wrist and ankle sizes but that hasn't stopped me from working hard, quite the opposite. Now people with far better genetic potentials are asking me for advice, and the secret is determination. Work hard, consistently and compete against your past self.
3000-3500cals per day, tracked aswell, maybe once a week I hit upto 4000, I am partial to a McDonald's so that's when I hit 4000, but I ate relatively clean, protein was around 150-160g carbs were upto 500g I will admit my fats were low. When I started I was 10stone, and on the diet I was putting on around 0.5lb-1lb per week. I go to the gym 4x a week, and I have quite a physical job.
So I would call myself a hard gainer, started january 1st 106lbs 6 foot male 18 years old. I have a bar and 2 dumbells, in the 5 months ive been doing this ive put on 12 lbs, i just basically work the compound lifts hard, in the mirror there is not much difference apart from the shoulders are far wider, had to get rid of a few shirts that i cant get my shoulders in anymore. Hardest thing by far is eating, i enjoy the training (not legs), but getting in a lot of calories is hard, i can get in a good 2400 or so every day which is putting on wait, but if i get busy then i go to bed at night and think shit, i haven't eaten anything today and cram 1000 calories before i go to bed, avoiding those days is my main priority. The need to keep abs i definitely feel and i have seen them getting worse but ive accepted it, i now have a complete obsession over posture, my posture has been bad throughout my teenage years and im trying to fix it, its getting better all the time but the hard bit is knowing what proper posture feels like, i can line myself up in the mirror all i like, im still not sure if it's right bevause the posture example pictures are all muscular men, not 118lb sticks.
Good part of training to be as strong as possible, I've never afraid of being in a caloric surplus. Turns out that is really good for hypetrophy, what a surprise :)
There is this dude at my gym that always complains that he is not making gains and he has bad genetics. His problem is simply the Pile of BS #3. He is absolutely terrified of losing his 6 pack. He basically eats like 2 carrots and a protein shake every day and is so confused why he isnt putting on size. I've told him 1000 times he needs to eat but he is still just terrified of putting on a little fat... Some people just do everything in their power to NOT progress...
On the point of undereating, it's hard to balance whole foods and bulking for me. I'll hit satiety very quickly especially with fiber > 70 grams. Honestly, will have to loosen up the diet a bit at this rate. While it isn't calorie dense, intuitively it does feel like a ton of food.
I assumed I was a hardgainer when I started lifting because despite being athletic in sports I never got big. Nope, I was just an under-eater. Learned to track calories and eat in a surplus. Gained about 40lbs over 4 years.
I am a proper beginner, i started very late lifting i am 36 years old now and I lift for 2 years and i am still weak as hell (can't bench more than 25 kg each side for sets of 8) and lately instead of increasing, my strength has even decreased.... Last push day couldn't even complete 4 sets of 8 with that weight on the bar.... So its not that linear.... I know i am doing everything wrong since I can't gain muscle nor strength (143 lbs with 1,74m high) so that idea that when your a beginner anything will stimulate growth is BS.....
I've been in those miserable failure circlejerks most of my adult life, especially the HIT community. While I own that it's mostly my fault, a lot of it I can definitely attribute to not having role models like yourself, Abel Csabai, Bald Omni-Man or Natural Hypertrophy. I believe whole heartedly that if you have a mental weakness it is imperative to see people consistently that fly in the face of your beliefs. Most of these people will hate on you guys and attribute your success to genetics, steroids etc. Some of us, like me, will question our beliefs, draw inspiration from what you do and say "Fuck it. Even IF GVS is a I would much rather believe in his message and put everything I have on the table." The truth is when I'm old and dying I won't regret being the same size I am now. I will regret not having given this endeavor my all. Even if working twice as hard only gets me 5% more results, the real rewards and enjoyment I have found is putting in that effort, not the results that come from it.
I’m 60 my friend and follow these young guys bcs my “role models” from the 70s-80s were mostly liars & took drugs. I was naive & ignorant. You can’t go back; there’s no “re-do”, but we can work diligently now and move forward.
Tbh, not having a spotter makes me worry about benching. That doesn't stop me from working hard though. I replace my regular bench press with machine chest press, and do regular bench on a Smith machine. I still do my incline dumbbell presses and everything else. A lot of people like to make excuses rather than working hard to get what they want
For weight lifting people buy supplements for pump and what not. Those are very small in their benefits. For myself i supplement stuff for my health and well being. (Fish oil, NAC, Ashwagandha (lowered my stress tremendously) i have a couple others but you get the idea. I always feel like when weight lifters say supplements and i say supplements we mean different things( excluding ped use)
I live in a rural area without a big gym, so I do most of my workouts at home, but I do go to some sort of CrossFit class once a week. It's mostly BW exercises but the guy there is also really good about correcting my form on heavier barbell lifts, which I'm happy about. Thing is, I'm pretty new to actual weight training and progressive overload and since he's one of those lifestyle&health kinda coaches, he's telling me to only increase my weights once a fucking month... I do a PPL split training 4 times a week and everyone is telling me to slow down and not go as hard. But I'm seeing great progress both in weights and in muscle gain and I haven't been this happy in years. Can I just assume that all these people have just never trained hard and that I won't throw my 29yr old back out as long as I pay attention to my form?
Honestly beginners should just be concerned with strength or progressive overload really, basically everything doesn't matter if you cant crank out a few pullups, a few dips, and hit 2 plates on deads/squats and at least one plate on bench. This is for the average guy but the point still stands, you can't flex bone.
0:52 i started gym a month ago following Jeff nippard's fundamental training program and I'm at 12.5 kg on both sides for 8 reps with controlled eccentric.
Holy shit i need to eat like a maniac -- I managed to lose my little skinny fat gut and get in good shape, but after becoming obsessed with weightlifting and wondering why the hell I'm not seeing more PROGRESS--lack of fuel! I think i'm still thinking in terms of losing weight/avoiding a heart attack, when now I'm in a position where I can eat lots of food, just not lots of donuts lol
I have read a lot of hardgainer minimalistic stuff on the internet. I think in the past I was drawn to the simplicity of that approach. For example a common workout is 3 exercises, 1-2 sets each taken near failure. Massive iron just came out with a video critiquing A recent elliot house video about’ “the only 4 exercises you need.” In which he illustrates it beautifully. I won’t say hardgainer stuff is all bs. I think Stuart McRobert has some good info. For me pigeonholing myself to just a few movements done low volume/low frequency seemed to work ok for building some strength but it was not effective for building muscle past my existing level. I am 33 and work a labor job. At this point it takes me about 4 days to fully recover from workouts. I have found great value in the addition of more isolation movements combined with the big compounds. One of the points I agree with in the hardgainer camp is higher intensity, lower volume. One a person gets past beginner/novice and into the intermediate/advanced realm training I think you need a broader focus and training becomes slightly more complicated.
got a lumbar spasm 3 times now, doing squat/leg presses and the fear is kicking in. Turns out everytime i slightly posterior tilted my hips and i cant take that under load. Ive to use lower ROM or get more stretch. But i relate to the fear now. barely walking for days :x
This might be helpful for faux hard-gainers, people who are not making progress because they are missing some key component. Most true hard-gainers, those who are much better suited towards endurance sports, will have probably dropped out of lifting weights in a short time because they are not making progress. The idea that certain programs or rep speeds, etc. work because most of the guys with gains are using them is Bullsh*t reasoning. People with good genetics for building muscle never had to try other methods because the first thing they tried worked. They have self-selected an activity that they are good at.
When I was younger, this guy came to me and said “you will never be big, cause you r too tall” 12 years pass and I’m 230 lbs lean; This is not too brag, just to tell people that even if you are a “hard gainer” if you never give up you will be there eventually.
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Agreed 100% on the ab obsession. That combined with the lack of patience will keep you a “hardgainer”. Reflecting on your program, particularly volume and proximity to failure is key, along with setting weight gain goals/measurements to adjust your diet and or training over time.
For me its the other way around, ive got a really low bodyfat % but if i would train abs some more they would stand out waaay more. Just cant get myself to train them at the end of every workout
I'm pretty sure I can comfortably bulk, progress, and maintain my abs. Maybe I'm just ab obsessed 🤪
@anysimmers if you don't have abs you are fat, if you don't have abs you are fat. Telling you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.
😂
@@Requilith Thats really not true. People like Greg Doucette🤡 always say that. Geoffrey actually even made a video about nonsense like that. Ofcourse abs are partially “made in the kitchen”. But if youre below 16-18% bodyfat anyone can have abs if they train them hard enough. The statement “if you have no abs youre fat” is so untrue, I myself have bodyfat of like 12% and I have veins all over my body, but my abs aren’t that visible and blocky because I dont train them a lot
@anysimmers Oh I’m sorry man, then I take my words back. Read Zora’s words too fast and got triggered i guess😅
The food issue is a big one. I've found "hardgainers" hide behind that a lot. "I'm eating a lot" usually goes hand in hand with "I'm afraid of getting fat and moving my body weight over 137 pounds."
One of my best friends thinks eating a bowl of spaghetti, 2 bags of chips and a sandwich is a lot and wonders why he cant gain weight.
@@markbaker4425 for one meal that's a lot tho
@@stayontrack i meant for a day
@@markbaker4425 🤣🤣🤣
@@markbaker4425 Depending on the size of the bags and the Bowl that could be between 3000 and 4000 kcal, so it's not bad. Without speaking about the health and anabolic effect ofc, those are horrible with such a diet.
Love ALL of this!
I will say for context, my comments come from having seen the 'Hardgainer' mentality first hand. I was an avid HG proponent back in the early 2000s, I even wrote for the original Stuart McRobert magazine. But I saw the streak of mediocrity in those circles early on and left. I still see people from that community 20 years later who made zero progress, which is a sad waste of the best years a training life all to be loyal to a failed belief system.
Geoffrey is right on the money here.
Edit - Also, go buy his ebook!
You should make a video about what you think the "HG mentality" is and why you think it's wrong.
I think it may have change since the 2000s
Because from what I know, the principles seems to be sound:
- Get progressively stronger in a medium rep range on exercises that suit you. (The big 3 are not pushed at all)
- Use the amount of volume that makes you progress and that you can recover from.
- focus on big compounds exercises and with a bit of isolation.
A variety of approach can fall in those guidelines.
What I have a problem with is the HIT zealot and black and white thinking that you ONLY need one set to failure to grow.
Maybe it's what you are refering too.
@@mathieuc.2789 I agree. I think it's totally fine to realise you're a naturally skinny person or that you're having trouble building muscle… and then adopt good hypertrophy training principles to make it as easy as possible to solve that problem, exactly as you've described: get stronger at big lifts that suit you, focus most of your energy on sets of 6-20 reps, train with enough volume, eat enough calories, eats foods that make it easier to eat more calories, get enough sleep.
There's no failure mindset inherent in that, just like there's no failure mindset in realising you're someone who tends to overeat and gain fat. I think it often helps to take your predispositions into account so that you can leverage or overcome them.
I can certainly attest that Faz knows what he’s talking about, the proof of the pudding as they say.
Ah yes, Stuart McRobert. He's a bit on the extreme side when it comes to minimalistic training and taking a _lot_ of rest.
@@dustencross357 🤣🤣🤣
I used to think I was a hardgainer. Turns out I was eating around 1800 calories. Fixed that and gained 15 pounds in two months.
Bingo. When you start eating enough the muscle can absolutely fly on at an astonishing rate.
For me I found that it’s more important to have a protein surplus than a calorie surplus. What u eat is more important than how much.
@@tobyh3681 not true. Protein is very overrated in fitness community. I made the mistake as a skinny guy to focus on getting as much protein as i can and made very small progress but as soon as i started focusing on getting enough calories through pizza ice cream etc i blew up and made massive muscle gains.
Bull shitt.
@@tobyh3681 beyond wrong
People are drawn to extremes. Some do it with volume, others with effort, some others with exercise selection. This guy picked conservativism as his gimmick. Ive seen this before, some "wise" man having a hardon for slowing things down to crippled snail level. "You think patience is important for good results? Well, lets see if you can be THIS patient!!! 😎😎" humans just piss me the F off.
,,Humans piss me the F off". Love the conclusion 😂
@@lmaolol9357 hahah 😅
As a great strongman once said, "abs are not a sign of strength, just sign you do not eat enough"
“Fat guy” or strongman abs are cool though. Always more impressed with that.
@@ac2395 eddy hall having abs at like 20%+ bodyfat looked pretty cool
@@ac2395 Lmao no
Lmao, you can be bulky and muscular and still have abs, these fat powerlifters are just jealous
@@s66s46 says the guy who can’t lift their numbers lol
Man the meme clips inbetween you talking always gets me😂😂 It is defo one of the many things that make you stand out in ytb fitness together with some others
Appreciate that, I enjoy making them!
I found your channel yesterday and honestly after watching Greg , MPMD and so on for years, I finally found someone who can teach me smth new. I've already watched about 20 of your vids and I just got your book as well. Keep putting great content. Cant wait to read the book and watch more of your work. Thank you!
Appreciate the support!
I have been working out in some form or another for close to 50 years. I have seen a lot of the newsstand muscle mags and when the magazine ' Hardgainer ' came out it was a breath of fresh air from all the other garbage magazines. It had some highly respected strength and conditioning coaches in the USA who were big supporters and writers in it e.g. Dr ken Leistiner founder of the famous Iron Island gym who was a friend of Dave Draper and Bill Pearl both bodybuilding legends. He was also good friends of Kim Wood a long time strength and conditioning coach in the NFL . I don't believe Dr Ken or any of the highly respected Strength and Conditioning coaches who wrote for the Hardgainer mag would disagree with anything you have said. You were pretty well right on.
Natural bodybuilder Ian Duckett was also a supporter and contributor to the Hardgainer magazine. His book True Grit for Natural bodybuilder was an excellent book.
I agree 100%. I started I lifting in 1982 when I was 15. No internet. Just muscle magazines. Most of us had some kind of weightlifting book that covered the basic exercises. The book recommended 8 to 12 repetitions to failure, two to three sets per exercise. Three times a week. And eat four to six meals a day and get plenty of sleep. Basically what we call bro science now.
But it worked. And no one was stressing about their abs. We all just wanted to get big and strong.
This hard gainer stuff is pretty new and the result of social media confusion and ab anxiety.
I've never met a true hard gainer. Meaning, somebody who has some kind of genetic issue that prevents them from gaining mass, even when they do everything right.
But everyone's genetics for size is different. For example, I just can't get big. At about 165 lb my body says we're done. No amount of eating, sleeping and working out can get me past that.
However I gained muscle very quickly up until that point (125 to 165 in two years). Which is what is supposed to happen when you lift hard and eat a lot of food.
I've met exactly one 'hardgainer' in my life. Someone I used to know who I asked why he didnt work out and he informed me he had something called marfans so it would be a pointless endeavour.
„Hardgainer“ actualy was one of those said magazines ^^.
Great advice as always Geoff!! Hard-gainer here, and I can safely say that all of this advice rings true. The more I’ve focused on increasing my volume, nailing my diet, and recovering well, the more I’ve been able to train well and make legit gains!
That line about “if you’re terrified of failing, ya know what you should do? Practice failing” can be applied to anything in life. Beautiful
I’ve classified myself this way. Training about 4 years and have transformed my body, but haven’t put on very much weight. Terrified to eat too much, ok with upping my weight every 4 weeks…this is a video I needed.
fr man, I pretty much "gaintained" for a year without seeing any progress, started bulking and have added 30kg to my DL, 10kg to my bench 30kg, to my legpress etc. in 6 months
@@eshay it was 10kg over my previous best, actual increase was 15kg but maybe thats shit too. I'm doing evolving repranges-ish, adding reps here and there and adding weight ~ every 4 weeks. I'm trying to follow NH's advice not to stress weight progress too hard and focus more on sustained progress rather than running into a wall all the time, but maybe thats redacted. If you have any advice on better methods I would appreciate it
@@eshay those are pretty much my current numbers, tried forcing starting strength level progress for a while but after about a month I couldnt keep up on most exercises
If he's scared of benching alone why not just switch to dumbbells?
Back in 2014 I thought I was a hard gainer. Then I ate food.
Number 10 is spot on, I swear your muscles actually get bigger when you're feelin it. When you're looking in the mirror posing and thinking "look at this beast", even if you're small, you're doing good.
Agreed. Just yesterday a girl at work asked me for fitness advice because her friend with skinny abs keeps giving her horrible advice but "she thinks hes really small and doesnt actually have muscle". I don't have abs and im the one normal people ask lifting/diet advice from. Remember that next time your afraid to bulk
Thank you again for your book, the amount of things that I've learned within those 200 pages is priceless. Instead of giving us fish, you've taught us how to fish. :) I truly believe that someone who is committed and consistent with his training, and applies the information that you've given us can become an advanced athlete by himself, without a coach. Because you've taught us how to coach ourselves. I'll always be grateful and I wish you success with your personal goals!
I thought I was a hard gainer until I saw your video on not being afraid to put on a few pounds of fat. So I started truly bulking. Not "lean bulking", actual "eat everything" bulking. I'm making progress that I didn't think was possible for me. I still think I'm on the hard gainer side, but this and Andrew Hubberman's podcast on sleep changed my game considerably. Am I chubby? Sure. I'll cut later.
The self belief part is what in my experience holds us back, I had to disassociate from "hard gainer" and "ectomorph" for a while to just enjoy the effort of getting stronger.
I needed to hear this. Thank you
I need to buy this guy's book
Dude your motivational speech at the end counts for life not just lifting. Thanks man
I used to be a hardgainer. Then I started eating more and training well. Ab obsession was at a max. Happened to conside with my G shred phase... wonder why. Also, the number of supps that work is the same number that HTLT sells.
ZEROOO
Bruh, your videos just keep getting better! Just love to hear those words of wisdom.
Was about to rant about the section where you talked about "Don't puss out deadlifting because SFR!", but then i realized, that you are talking about fresh starters xD
Yea if someone is strong at deadlifts, totally different story and a strong argument to avoid them or at least limit how much they are included in a hypertrophy plan.
So relatable, in my first 3 hears of training I was exactly like this, know I figured out how to do stuff properly, and the main set were the most important thing in my case, I just don’t fear failure anymore, in my mind overcoming it is only another opportunity for me to become stronger mentally, and every fear in my mind gets instantly debunked, as I know already that the only limit I could have, is my own limitations in head, which tends to be exasperated and unreal
This was extremely well said. In the past I’ve fallen for some of these traps myself. Great video, I hope people take it to heart.
Looking at Bald Omni Man and NH, I don’t see why you can’t have good ab definition even if you don’t obsess with having the lowest possible body fat. They both knew how to grow their abs so that even at a bulk and higher body fat percentage, their abs are thick and visible. I’m more so impressed by that than by those who clearly look malnourished while showing off their midsection.
I think its genetics
They are both very blessed people who also happen to have extraordinary discipline. Unusual in the human population.
@@jonathand9682 Extraordinary discipline yes. But blessed in what regard? If you mean they have good genetics, then I disagree. Both NH and Bald Omni have average bases. They just trained for many many years. Same thing with Alphadestiny. People need to stop using this excuse that all the elite naturals have amazing genetics or something, like Greg was saying oh Alex has great genetics, no he doesn't he's completely average and has said so himself on multiple occasions. Does Greg know Alex's genetic profile better than him? No. Not every guy who is jacked and strong is blessed. People with such genes are rare, I feel weak lazy losers always use this as a cop out.
Not saying that that's what you meant by blessed but using it as an example because there are people who use it as an excuse all the time.
I've seldom seen a proper explanation of the asymptotic relationship between Time and Training Progress; well said. Found your channel recently, and have been pleasantly surprised with your content, training knowledge, wit, and unique sense of humor. Keep it up!
Outstanding vocabulary
Dang man you're one of the few UA-camrs giving A1 advice for Natural Lifters. Keep it up man 💪
A lot of this advice is geared towards the timid individual. I remember my situation was the opposite. I was ready for gains by any means necessary and I would often push myself to the point of breaking. Grind and pain was nothing. I can remember eating so much that I would throw up after a meal and then just go right back to eating more to shovel the food down. It wasn’t until I started doing what I would consider a bunch of very easy pump work really frequently that I started making my best gains.
Oh yea, it's quite individual, some people need pushing, other people need holding back.
Same for me.
The biggest problem there is the "easily accomplish". You can get proper adaptation after a workout with light weight but that guy was getting nowhere near failure. If you don't want to increase intensity with weight you can't skip adding it with reps.
Great video. Can’t go wrong with GVS, Fazlifts or Massive Iron. Bought SWEAT a month ago and it’s fantastic.
Great fellas and glad it's been helpful!
Agree 100%. Pause for 2 seconds at the bottom, chest touching bar, of every barbell bench press, for every rep, and rarely fail.
nice video, definitely showing this to my friend who considers himself a hard gainer and only does calisthenics and neglects the big 3.
I think one thing not mentioned in this a lot of people think they are hardgainers but in reality they are just comparing themselves to instagrammers who are either fake-natties or just straight lying about their transformations. In reality they trained for 5 years but they claim it was 6 months or they was already built but just got a bit fat before burning it back off etc.
I used to think this, I'm a 92kg man who trains hard and eats well. I've always been heavy and I've been training for 3 years now. I see people speak about how at my weight after 3 years training I should be repping 100kg bench, I should be repping 200kg deadlift etc. You see instgrammers go from "untrained" to pressing 120kg like it's nothing in what they claim is 6 months, StrengthStandards says in 2 years someone my weight should have a 115kg 1rm on bench. You look at all this and you go "what am I doing wrong? Can I just not build muscle?".
But this year, reality hit me. At my gym, in real life how many people do I actually see repping 100kg bench and 200kg deadlift? How many people do I actually see chucking 180kg on the squat? Sure there are some, but it's certainly not the majority and when you do you usually look over like "damn that's some big numbers".
Most people aren't hardgainers, they just had a skewed perspective on what realistic progression is. They think if they aren't benching 100kg in a year there a hardgainer but no, that's just reality.
Reason #10 applies to everything in life!
You have to be willing to fail and learn so you can persevere.
Can be something as simple as learning how to barbecue well or something more complex like driving a boat.
Good video! People need to just buckle down and actually try trying.
One of the most enlightening experiences I had was dropping the bar on a back squat. I had just added weight, done one set and dropped it during the second set. Removed some weight and continued. No one cared. Now I am pretty okay with failing a lift. Also. I have lost a lot of weight. Now I am pretty afraid of getting fat so eating enough makes me a little scared.
Yeah, the issue is they think their RiR is 0-2, and it is in fact 5-6, lol.
Finally got my copy of your book. Haven't read it all yet, but i think it is nice to support your work in that way too.
Idea for future: Home gym training plan with just barbell and dumbells - The only thing that is missing for me, but hopefully after reading your book through i will be able to update my current plan in a way that makes more sense than before :)
09:45
1-Turkesterone
2-Cook book
3-Creatine
4-Turkesterone
5:06 “FOOD FIGHT !” (Great movie clip)
The point you brought up about extremely high reps being shit for beginners is very valid. Particularly as a beginner with little to no coordination, if you can do 30 reps of a movement, odds are your could probably get 50 or 60 if you went to failure. They stop at 30 because that's when either the burn becomes too much or, seeing rep speed slow slightly, they perceive they're close to failure. It's understood that, for hypertrophy, the really hard reps (say 1 to 3 RiR) do the lion's share in stimulating growth. "Hardgainers " never get close to this training like this.
This is why starting strength and the like have been so beneficial to so many beginners. For squats, even though it's only 3 sets of 5 reps, each rep is challenging as fuck and highly stimulating. Everyone should start out with something like SS, but then move on once the program has done its job (don't do what I've heard RIP suggest and take up to 10-15 minutes rest between work sets just to hit the arbitrary reps for the arbitrary weight jump which equates to "progress").
Yep, agree 100%. Training to failure in low to moderate reps is HARD. High reps? Even more grueling. It's just not something almost anyone actually does as a beginner, plus due to the recruitment thresholds, the failure is even more important.
Excellent information! Thank you. 💪
Definitely agree with supplements. Most of the time it's the trainer's fault who sells beginners useless supplements for commission. When the client asks why he isn't getting results the trainer says, "it's time for the good stuff 💉"
These are great points, but I feel like most of them are aimed at a cautious person, not a hardgainer.
I'm a hardgainer. For the past twelve years, all of my clients have been hardgainers. A small percentage of us are timid, but I don't think it's a larger percentage than the general population. In fact, in my experience, skinny guys are often really desperate to build muscle, no matter the cost or risk or effort. They're happy to train hard, push to failure, and put in a ton of work. If they're weak, it might not look like much, but they're really giving it their all.
The ab anxiety thing can happen, and you described that dilemma well. It can be hard to give up your only good body part. But a lot of us take our abs for granted, too, considering they're so easy to have, so quick to get back.
And not eating enough ABSOLUTELY happens, but you kind of glossed over it, almost like it's a simple fact we forgot to consider. But we aren't failing to eat enough from some sort of misunderstanding about how much we're supposed to eat. Almost all of us KNOW we're supposed to eat more. But we seem to have smaller appetites, smaller stomachs, and more adaptive metabolisms. It's much HARDER to eat enough, it's easy to fall off the wagon, and it never happens by accident. When I would eat a big meal, I would get full halfway through, and then when I would force it down, I'd acid reflux. It wouldn't physically fit in my stomach. And then I'd see another dude eating TWO of those meals and then ordering dessert because he wants to keep eating more. My stomach eventually got bigger, and eating more often solves some of those issues, but it was a rough time for a long time.
I think it's very similar to overweight people struggling to lose weight and keep it off. They know they need to eat less, but damn is it ever hard, especially when they need to keep it up for the rest of their lives.
Liquid calories have been around for a very long time in the form of shakes/powders and soda pop. Also abs are an amazing body part, a person needs to first understand their function and how adding muscle and strength makes them more functional. Also when lifting workouts are programmed for progressive overload, the human body automatically steps up metabolism to compensate and subsequently asks for more fuel to sustain this increase. Your clients would benefit immensely from their coach broadening their knowledge base.
@@jonathand9682 I'm not really understanding your criticism. I know liquid calories aren't anything new. They still help. I'm not sure why a technique being conventional would make it less effective. I think more often than not, the conventional approach is often the more effective one.
When I talk about "losing abs" I'm not talking about losing ab muscle, I'm talking about losing sight of my abs because I'm gaining a few body-fat percentage points. I agree that building bigger, stronger abs is great. No argument from me there.
No, not everyone automatically eats more calories when focusing on progressive overload. I don't doubt that's true for a lot of people, but I've always focused on progressive overload, and I still find it very difficult to gain weight. That's never played into it. If that were true, skinny guys who train hard wouldn't have any issue gaining weight, but they often do.
On the other hand, when some people try to eat more calories, their non-exercise activity thermogenesis revs up, making their metabolisms much faster. Someone might start off bulking at 3,000 calories, and a month later they're maintaining their weight at 4,000 calories. When that happens, it can be hard to keep up.
I and some people that I coached got great results for arm and shoulder hypertrophy with high rep ranges (20 or more). You can do a lot for arms and shoulders with lower weights.
Hmmm, I said this on your insta when you posted it. But just to reiterate. I feel like sometimes going slower than you think you need to at first can you let you go faster later in the process. For the bench, dialing in your form at a ridiculously low intensity and rate of progression will slowly, but meaningfully build confidence, and then like three months down the line you can suddenly explode in strength. That’s my experience at least, but it definitely requires patience and a degree of faith. And it is definitely not something you want to stick with forever. But I must say, going super slow sometimes keeps me in the game.
The problem for many of us that store fat in the stomach instead of the legs is that 20% bodyfat doesn't look very good. So we want to be 12-15% which brings some issues. But many of you can still look very good at 20% body fat if you store all the fat in your legs mostly, or arms.
I store everything in my waist and a little on chest.
My arms are almost fatless which hurts their fullness lol and my legs have veins on my thighs and fkn calves everywhere..but oh no I can't get rid of the fkn love handles unless i start dropping sub 14%..
I gave up currently and just bulk slowly (2kg per month ) and plan on doing so for another 4 months then see if i wanna cut and reveal whatever I'll have built.
@@fotis3v480 Yeah, we need to try and see what works best for us
Great video Geoff, the bit about the abs is 100% correct. Disagree on the rep speed portion. Personally I find a 4 second eccentric and 4 second concentric satisfactory. It eliminates the desired to jerk the weight around and leads to greater stress on the muscle. I also find it safer: I used to dive bomb in my high bar squats and then thought squats were bad b/c of the ensuing knee pain. But it instead it was my application of the negative portion of the squat, a 4 second negative into the bottom position eliminated the knee pain. Great video though, i don't disagree with anything else.
I dont deadlift because they take too much time to load up and i prefer to do rows. But its true what you are saying in every other aspect
I've never considered myself a hardgainer, and I'm someone who will only let go of abs but so much though part of that is the reason I started training serious was to be lean, not necessarily to be big. However, it's gonna be a new day as Menno Henselmans estimates have me at 95% or more of my potential on all major measurements with not even 3 serious years in yet so I CANNOT WAIT to play my hardgainer hand when I'm 172 lbs 10% BF 😤
8:42 This 😂😂👍
The slow reps things kills me... 80% of people in the gym do what I call "weighted tai chi" and still wonder why they look like the spaghetti man... blame it also on the many gym staff monitors that advice to newbies things like "do it slow and controlled. Control the weight, do not let the weight control you"... and newbies use these" not too bad advice in the appropriate context" as an excuse to be lazy...
"weighted tai chi" I thing there's no term more suitable than this 😂
I agree with 90% of what you said, but as a older man with a few bad joints, I can tell you slow and steady is not a bad idea. I was too aggressive and now I have to work around a shoulder that is taking it’s time to heal. Yes, I add reps or weight to each lift every workout.
The free cafeteria is a blessing for newb gains. Freshman year of college I had two free meals a day of cafeteria food: triple burgers, pasta, pizza chocalate milkshakes and burritos. A skinny guy my high school cross country team who got jacked taught how to lift as well that year. First time in my life I gained like 20-25 lbs in a year.
Faz is the man 🤙🏽 if anyone hasn’t checked out his channel I highly recommend it, you won’t be disappointed! Great video as always GVS 💪🏽
You and Bald omni man encouraged me to let go the fear of "becoming fat", i bulked for 3 months and gained 8kgs and very little fat, best decision ever. Your content Is Golden!
I thought I was a hard gainer, but then I started training properly and suddenly I’m progressing somewhere in my program every session.
I suck at bench pressing. Wing span wider than my height and a bad left shoulder. But jeez even I had a better progression than those guys I see in the gym doing these micro-adjustments. I often see guys doing 5-6 reps per set though not 12-15. I think for a beginner it is easier to reach a higher RPE when doing low-ish reps. I see a lot more struggle in general. High reps is for intermediate to advanced. For people who start to like the pain at some point 😅
Number 10 is the hardest. Putting on fat and going to fall-on-my-ass failure on squats wasn't a problem for me, but muscle growth just didn't come - and when it did it was well below "what you should expect in your first year of training". 10 pounds would have been a godsend.
How are you supposed to believe in yourself when there is no evidence that you should? It becomes a pretty nasty cycle and "it's okay to be weak, training is a solution for that, but don't be weak minded" doesn't give a solution either, it just points out the (real) problem.
The solution for me was to train without getting results and value how hard I worked, not whether it did anything. Did I put on 20 pounds of muscle? Absolutely not. 3 years in, I still haven't. Did I put on some? Yes, even though it came so slow that I didn't notice. Would I have put on that muscle if I hadn't busted my ass? No.
People who keep getting big are usually the people who are good at getting big in the beginning. They get addicted to size gains, or PRs, and by the time those are hard to come by, the gym is a habit. When those gains don't come, you have to find something else to motivate you, and that's a tough fucking thing when the entire industry is telling you that you aren't cut out for this.
I had this problem until funnily enough I found your channel and Revival Fitness. You two are the reason I gave up on abs and decided to go full on into getting stronger, and because of that my lifts have shot up in the last 6 months. Oh and guess what I'm eating 3500+ calories now and slowly gaining weight. Before this I thought I couldnt eat over 2500 without gaining too fast. Bulking has been the best thing I have ever done, the worst thing lifters do is undereat and not train hard enough.
What foods are you eating bro? To reach that calories.
@@zxnnyxz03 I eat mostly whole foods, but if you have trouble getting food down I highly recommend throwing in peanut butter somewhere in your day. It's easy to eat and can pack a ton of calories. I opt out of jelly for the simple reason of I dont like eating lots of sugar, but PB&J is a great way to pack in calories.
You are right, but I am happy when people go to the gym, do cardio and lift weights even if they do not maximize their progress. The best is the enemy of the good.
Geoffrey coming in with more unique topics! Good stuff, brother 💪🤓
I'm afraid of the bench press and the barbell squat. I asked the PT to show me the bench but I've not actually done a working set. I'm doing dumbbell press and machine press but no barbell bench. As for the squat, I'm doing goblet squats but I'm planning on trying the barbell squat maybe front squat so I stay upright as possible.
I'm doing pull-ups, dips, pulldowns, overhead press and deadlift. I'm still a bit timid on the deadlift cause I'm 42 and I tweaked my back a bit. I really thought I hurt myself but i was fine. I am telling myself I'm still getting used to the movement and I'm not 100% on form but I'm beginning to rethink this and other things because of these videos. Of course I'm not going to go crazy but I think it's time I learned. One of the other staff said I work hard so that was very encouraging.
Started lifting at like 135lbs, gained 20lbs in the first 6 months despite eating at maintenance or even a deficit (I suspect) at times. Due to my initial progress I believed that I could continue to “recomp” or put on muscle while not putting on fat. Needless to say, this led to a lot of wheel spinning. Hey, at least I was lean with a six pack. 😂
Eventually, I had enough of spinning my wheels, and the COVID lockdowns where I had a lot of time to train was the catalyst that encouraged me to finally bulk. Went from like 155lbs-185lbs in two years, and got a hell of a lot stronger! I really did fall in love with my strength, size and all the compliments people were giving me, and it really showed me how important it is to bulk as a lifter. Right now, I’m cutting rather aggressively for the summer to something relative lean, but I’ll slow it down so I can get to something legitimately lean so I can see just how much I’ve built. I guess the moral of the story is to not be afraid to eat! Fat loss is no big deal in comparison to muscle and strength building.
I’m an ezgainer and all of this advice STILL rings true
Like a lot of people I started lifting at 15 before the internet. School gym "traditional" equipment. It was the football coach teaching a class that was an alternative to regular gym class (which we all know sucksss)
Everyone did the same program, from nerds to jocks all different levels. We all made crazy gains. The basics work great but you have to be willing to use more weight than you think you need. I currently lift with no spotter and it sucks but always tell myself i can reduce weight as easily as adding it and i think I've only said "uh ohhhh" at the squat rack once.
Funny thing really,the "under eating"was making sense with the "write it down"...i wrote it down,one dinner consisted of 2 waffles,a croissant and a nice glass of water.But what i really think is what made me consider myself a hardgainer is the fact i was just an inpatient person,i see my lifting Numbers go up but not mutch gain on the weight scale or in the mirror and feel bad,but i geuss specialy with my training hypertrophy comes slower then strength.
I have bench pressed 15 times till today and I've been bench pressing for around mounths the first time I tried bench I did a pyramid set starting from 30KG and ending to 45KG, then I got obsest and in every workout I did bench first and always I was putting 2,5kg plate (5KG) more(every week) and I made one rep more in every atemp, now I'm benching 65KG for 2 reps with a preper warm up ate 15-16 and 53KG 174cm
also in that period I got around 1,8kg more and I saw a difference in my chest
Yep; I would describe myself as an ultra-hardgainer, but I don't know why you said I wouldn't like your video. I agree with everything you said, and have not done any of that stuff. Except one thing I don't agree with - where you had printed on the screen that it is either under training or under eating. If I train more and/or harder (I train real hard anyway), I get smaller and weaker. If I eat more I put on fat, not muscle. Been training over 45 years. Can't give up, because I'd be even weaker (I'm naturally very weak). I was able to deadlift 190kg (420lb) for 5 reps, though. I think that was good at a bodyweight of around 175lb. I maintained that up to age 50, but my back is pretty shot now, so have problems even doing light deadlifts. Not good.
I’m 7 months in and benching 185 for reps and I have a 265 squat atg and 365 deadlift, I have gained no weight as well (I am 220lb). It’s not hard to get bigger and stronger if you eat, the only lift that I’ve had any trouble with is my squats. Hit a bit of a wall and made a decision to switch from my 5x5 to 20reps and honestly I feel so much better after just a week of it, my glutes and quads are sore but my back feels great for the first time in a month.
Program had me adding weight every 4 weeks and while I typically could, the tendon pain was real. I’ve lowered the weight and am feeling noticeably better.
With the slow reps thing, I made more progress with this because it forced me to think about time under tension. It's not that hard to reach failure with 3-5 second slow reps as long as the weight isn't too light. In fact, 1 hard set to failure on bicep curls with slow reps make me more sore than an entire 'normal rep' bicep workout Plus less pain in my tendons from using lighter weights
I have definitely thought of myself as a hardgainer in the past. And to be fair to myself I do have very below average wrist and ankle sizes but that hasn't stopped me from working hard, quite the opposite. Now people with far better genetic potentials are asking me for advice, and the secret is determination. Work hard, consistently and compete against your past self.
3000-3500cals per day, tracked aswell, maybe once a week I hit upto 4000, I am partial to a McDonald's so that's when I hit 4000, but I ate relatively clean, protein was around 150-160g carbs were upto 500g I will admit my fats were low. When I started I was 10stone, and on the diet I was putting on around 0.5lb-1lb per week. I go to the gym 4x a week, and I have quite a physical job.
used to be a hardgainer, thought that lifting isn't for me at 49kg 😂, then i stopped watching athlean x
I remember when I was a novice barely benching 185lbs and people were accusing me of using tren
Slow reps are kinda funny on something like pullup. Forearms hit failure first before anything else can
So I would call myself a hard gainer, started january 1st 106lbs 6 foot male 18 years old. I have a bar and 2 dumbells, in the 5 months ive been doing this ive put on 12 lbs, i just basically work the compound lifts hard, in the mirror there is not much difference apart from the shoulders are far wider, had to get rid of a few shirts that i cant get my shoulders in anymore. Hardest thing by far is eating, i enjoy the training (not legs), but getting in a lot of calories is hard, i can get in a good 2400 or so every day which is putting on wait, but if i get busy then i go to bed at night and think shit, i haven't eaten anything today and cram 1000 calories before i go to bed, avoiding those days is my main priority. The need to keep abs i definitely feel and i have seen them getting worse but ive accepted it, i now have a complete obsession over posture, my posture has been bad throughout my teenage years and im trying to fix it, its getting better all the time but the hard bit is knowing what proper posture feels like, i can line myself up in the mirror all i like, im still not sure if it's right bevause the posture example pictures are all muscular men, not 118lb sticks.
Good part of training to be as strong as possible, I've never afraid of being in a caloric surplus.
Turns out that is really good for hypetrophy, what a surprise :)
There is this dude at my gym that always complains that he is not making gains and he has bad genetics. His problem is simply the Pile of BS #3. He is absolutely terrified of losing his 6 pack. He basically eats like 2 carrots and a protein shake every day and is so confused why he isnt putting on size. I've told him 1000 times he needs to eat but he is still just terrified of putting on a little fat... Some people just do everything in their power to NOT progress...
On the point of undereating, it's hard to balance whole foods and bulking for me. I'll hit satiety very quickly especially with fiber > 70 grams.
Honestly, will have to loosen up the diet a bit at this rate. While it isn't calorie dense, intuitively it does feel like a ton of food.
I assumed I was a hardgainer when I started lifting because despite being athletic in sports I never got big. Nope, I was just an under-eater. Learned to track calories and eat in a surplus. Gained about 40lbs over 4 years.
I couldn't agree more. What a guy. ❤❤❤
I am a proper beginner, i started very late lifting i am 36 years old now and I lift for 2 years and i am still weak as hell (can't bench more than 25 kg each side for sets of 8) and lately instead of increasing, my strength has even decreased.... Last push day couldn't even complete 4 sets of 8 with that weight on the bar.... So its not that linear.... I know i am doing everything wrong since I can't gain muscle nor strength (143 lbs with 1,74m high) so that idea that when your a beginner anything will stimulate growth is BS.....
I've been in those miserable failure circlejerks most of my adult life, especially the HIT community. While I own that it's mostly my fault, a lot of it I can definitely attribute to not having role models like yourself, Abel Csabai, Bald Omni-Man or Natural Hypertrophy. I believe whole heartedly that if you have a mental weakness it is imperative to see people consistently that fly in the face of your beliefs. Most of these people will hate on you guys and attribute your success to genetics, steroids etc. Some of us, like me, will question our beliefs, draw inspiration from what you do and say "Fuck it. Even IF GVS is a I would much rather believe in his message and put everything I have on the table."
The truth is when I'm old and dying I won't regret being the same size I am now. I will regret not having given this endeavor my all. Even if working twice as hard only gets me 5% more results, the real rewards and enjoyment I have found is putting in that effort, not the results that come from it.
I’m 60 my friend and follow these young guys bcs my “role models” from the 70s-80s were mostly liars & took drugs. I was naive & ignorant. You can’t go back; there’s no “re-do”, but we can work diligently now and move forward.
Tbh, not having a spotter makes me worry about benching. That doesn't stop me from working hard though. I replace my regular bench press with machine chest press, and do regular bench on a Smith machine. I still do my incline dumbbell presses and everything else. A lot of people like to make excuses rather than working hard to get what they want
Great info as always Geoff
For weight lifting people buy supplements for pump and what not. Those are very small in their benefits.
For myself i supplement stuff for my health and well being. (Fish oil, NAC, Ashwagandha (lowered my stress tremendously) i have a couple others but you get the idea.
I always feel like when weight lifters say supplements and i say supplements we mean different things( excluding ped use)
Geoffrey Hi, i follow your channel daily, just a quick question, what is your current weight? what is your standard weight range? Thanks
99-101kg currently
I live in a rural area without a big gym, so I do most of my workouts at home, but I do go to some sort of CrossFit class once a week. It's mostly BW exercises but the guy there is also really good about correcting my form on heavier barbell lifts, which I'm happy about.
Thing is, I'm pretty new to actual weight training and progressive overload and since he's one of those lifestyle&health kinda coaches, he's telling me to only increase my weights once a fucking month... I do a PPL split training 4 times a week and everyone is telling me to slow down and not go as hard. But I'm seeing great progress both in weights and in muscle gain and I haven't been this happy in years.
Can I just assume that all these people have just never trained hard and that I won't throw my 29yr old back out as long as I pay attention to my form?
Honestly beginners should just be concerned with strength or progressive overload really, basically everything doesn't matter if you cant crank out a few pullups, a few dips, and hit 2 plates on deads/squats and at least one plate on bench. This is for the average guy but the point still stands, you can't flex bone.
0:52 i started gym a month ago following Jeff nippard's fundamental training program and I'm at 12.5 kg on both sides for 8 reps with controlled eccentric.
Holy shit i need to eat like a maniac -- I managed to lose my little skinny fat gut and get in good shape, but after becoming obsessed with weightlifting and wondering why the hell I'm not seeing more PROGRESS--lack of fuel! I think i'm still thinking in terms of losing weight/avoiding a heart attack, when now I'm in a position where I can eat lots of food, just not lots of donuts lol
I have read a lot of hardgainer minimalistic stuff on the internet. I think in the past I was drawn to the simplicity of that approach. For example a common workout is 3 exercises, 1-2 sets each taken near failure. Massive iron just came out with a video critiquing A recent elliot house video about’ “the only 4 exercises you need.” In which he illustrates it beautifully. I won’t say hardgainer stuff is all bs. I think Stuart McRobert has some good info. For me pigeonholing myself to just a few movements done low volume/low frequency seemed to work ok for building some strength but it was not effective for building muscle past my existing level. I am 33 and work a labor job. At this point it takes me about 4 days to fully recover from workouts. I have found great value in the addition of more isolation movements combined with the big compounds. One of the points I agree with in the hardgainer camp is higher intensity, lower volume. One a person gets past beginner/novice and into the intermediate/advanced realm training I think you need a broader focus and training becomes slightly more complicated.
got a lumbar spasm 3 times now, doing squat/leg presses and the fear is kicking in. Turns out everytime i slightly posterior tilted my hips and i cant take that under load. Ive to use lower ROM or get more stretch. But i relate to the fear now. barely walking for days :x
This might be helpful for faux hard-gainers, people who are not making progress because they are missing some key component. Most true hard-gainers, those who are much better suited towards endurance sports, will have probably dropped out of lifting weights in a short time because they are not making progress. The idea that certain programs or rep speeds, etc. work because most of the guys with gains are using them is Bullsh*t reasoning. People with good genetics for building muscle never had to try other methods because the first thing they tried worked. They have self-selected an activity that they are good at.
When I was younger, this guy came to me and said “you will never be big, cause you r too tall”
12 years pass and I’m 230 lbs lean; This is not too brag, just to tell people that even if you are a “hard gainer” if you never give up you will be there eventually.