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I've been training for about 10 years. Every rep of squats, of every set, of every workout, feels like I'm squatting for the first time. It has never felt right.
Try a few months of front squats or zombie squats, nothing makes you appreciate squats like a more disadvantaged squat. More disadvantaged also means more developmental so expect some quad and upper back growth.
@@Bombsuitsandkilts I second this. I'm built for low bar squats, but I hardly do them. 80% of my training is on an SSB. When I switch to low bar, it's like hitting the cheat codes. After a short learning and intensity block I'll always easily PR the lift.
@@Pete0621 what is your sport and what are your goals? As long as you have enough posterior work it wouldn't be a problem for a long training block. I warm up front squats and then when it gets heavy switch to back squats up to a heavy single, then lower to my back off work with front squats. Definitely not a problem to do both in the same workout and just spend the most time on whichever is your main goal for that training block.
its crazy. my femur and tibia are nearly the same length being extremely long. and i noticed that looking down is much more comfortable then keeping my chest up and looking forward.
This explain a lot! Not only do I have short femurs, but, I have a long torso. I defaulted to highbar squat because it was “comfortable”. As a result, my deadlifts are absolutely abysmal because of under developed hip hinging muscles. So I purposely switched to recently to stimulate the hamstrings and hipflexors, and it’s like starting as a beginner again because it’s hitting all these muscle groups I never used.
This was very illuminating. I have been frustrated with the squat since i started lifting in my teens, over 30 years ago. I have very long femurs for my hieght as well as very closed hips. If my stance isnt the right width, feet pointed out exactly right, and knees tracking perfectly out over my toes, it's painful and occasionally injury inducing. When i was younger it seemed like i had a little more leeway. But with age mobility has exasperated the issue and reaching full depth has become an issue. My muscles feel recovered after 2-3 days, but the hips are still aching and popping a week later!
I have longer femurs but have only ever felt comfortable doing a narrower squat and I prefer ATG. What’s helped me more than anything has been improving my ankle dorsiflexion to keep my body upright.
Not as long as u might think I thought the same Kinda long legs, but then I'm like how tf can I be so upright during low bar squat then. I don't even need to lean forward much to keep the weight across the middle of my feet. Turns out I'm just tall overall, but my legs are pretty much average length...
Good video, however, You should dig more into anteversion and retro version of the femur/hip socket. This is also a crucial factor for squatting “mobility”. Some people can never mobilize to a deep squat.
I think a lot of people miss the importance of tibia length in the squat. I'm glad you mentioned it. I would be built decently for squats if it weren't for my tibia length. Alsooooo I think so many people try to do the lowest low bar. If you have a longer torso and shorter tibia this likely will not work for you. I switched to a mid bar position and feel way better.
i typicall squat high bar because low bar has always led to injury (piriformis syndrome or straight sciatic pain) yet i deadlift much more than my squat (sumo and conventional) any ideas why? any recommendations?
Is what’s your advice on feet turnout? My feet naturally want to turn out a lot. It’s what’s most comfortable for me. Is there ever a situation where turning out your feet too much is bad?
You generally just want to make sure that your knees are "tracking" over your toes at the angle you use, aka your knees follow the angle of your feet, and don't pull further in towards your center at whichever angle you pick. Otherwise, as long as you don't have discomfort in your joints and it feels like a strong position (along with the other points in the vid), then a slightly more open angle might just be what's right for you. The only time turning your feet out may potentially be less optimal could be when trying to do a high bar or front squat specifically when targeting the quads, but that would also depend on other factors as well.
- Long Femur ✅️ - Short Tibia ✅️ - Poor ankle mobility/dorsiflexion ✅️ - long back ✅️ ...i HATE squats. I HATE deadlifts...i HATE gym...i HATE life...😂😂 For referance, im 6'1 (185) in the morning. Sitting down im about 37" - 37.5"...which according to my comparisons with people..is same as 6'4 - 6'6 who are reasonably proportional, And even upto 6'8 dudes who are all legs lol. My tibia is either the same as or sometimes shorter than 5'8 - 5'10 people. My femur however is long. From butt to knee (including muscle/fat and other tissue)..its probably close to 2ft. Femur itself is about 18in - 19in Trouser Inseam is about 30-31. But i can get away with 32" with about 2" hanging below ankles. I also have 28" trousers which are a tad short. 34" trousers need exactly 4" of folding.
Front squats are very natural feeling for me. I do high bar back squats, and they feel pretty good. My issue is that I try to stay upright and end up arching my lower back as I go down, and I can't seem to break that habit and just keep my back straight. Any advice on fixing that?
I'm a long femur lifter myself. Can't tell you how good it feels when knowledgeable lifters such as youself - cover this topic. When I'm at the gym I often find myself explaining to people who tell me to "siMpLY rEMaiN uPriGHT iN My SqUAt" that biomechanics are a thing..
Indeed. My squatting is horrendous Long femurs and terrible ankle mobility . The only way I can just get an ok parallel squat is by using high squat wedges and a 20lb garden slab held arms length out in front of me as a counterbalance. This allows me to get a more upright position and stop buttwink creeping in too early . I was quite surprised tonight to find I’m quite liking a narrower stance when I was sure wife was the way to go for my hips which seem to be deep hip sockets and not the shallow ones that are good for deep squatting. It’s good to film yourself and really experiment I don’t think I will ever be able back squat , so safety bar/front squat/zercher squat/heavy goblet or just holding heavy plate out in front is probably going to suit me best for a while while I continue to work on mobility
Im just glad im finding people like me everybody woukd say to may why are you leaning forward etc. I knew something was wrong when i noticed my hacksquat is wayy heavier than my normal squat unlike others
This helps me understand why I enjoy squatting even though I have long legs. I have to work at making myself shorter; wide stance, low bar, head up. It's not just an exercise. It's a project.
You mean long femurs? I have and it makes my back position too much angle. Maybe I should get more power lower back? Then more upright stance and squat?
@@kipponi I have both long femurs and long tibia. Fortunately, I have good ankle mobility. Back position still has to feel natural - not forced upright. I’ve been using a yoke bar (safety squat) occasionally. That keeps the back more upright. Squatting to me is as much a back exercise as it is a leg exercise, so overall back strength is helpful in avoiding the ‘squat morning’. Back extensions, reverse hypers, good mornings, RDLs, straight-leg deadlifts, and plenty of others are useful for building the spinal erectors. Proprioception also plays a roll. If you maintain awareness you can fight the inclination to lean too much forward.
Very helpful video. I'm a tall, heavy, long legged guy and have always had a squat that is disproportionately worse than my dl and bench. The visual explanation at 14:30 was so helpful for wrapping my head around the leverages in a way that descriptions or charts never could. And being a similar build to Lasha it was great to learn about him and a breakdown of how he works around his advantages and disadvantages. Great stuff, lots to take away from this thank you!
My femurs are 3” longer than they should be, arms are 3” shorter than they should be and I have a hyper mobility disorder so I have issues with joints and injuries frequently. Yet I want to be a powerlifter or strongman even though I injure myself so easily and I’m a glass t-Rex. I also only high bar squat even though I have very long femurs. I’m 5’11” and have femurs of a 6’7” man.
I could deadlift 3x my bodyweight for a few reps yet I could only squat 2.5x my bodyweight for 1 rep I knew this was down to leverages long limbs short body... Good info
@el eija depends on the bw. Those ratios can't be compared within different bodyweight categories. For an 80kg short guy it's not that hard to get to 3-3.5x bw squat and deadlift even 4x and above If sumo and soft bar. But for someone 100-110kg it's already a different story a little bit.
Elite olympic lifters are fascinating to watch as their torso angles are basically unchanged throughout the squat. 99% have perfect proportions for upright squats. Then you look at Blaine Sumner...
There was a super neat study review on Stronger By Science by sir gnuckols that talked about how the quad-load tends to the be same between medium and high load squatting, and then the glutes get recruited more and more as you get closer to max loads. This fits really well into what you see with people squat morning at higher loads :D
Kinda makes sense. Instead of thinking technical failure squat morning could be a bodily reflex trying to recruit more glute and back in an effort to assist otherwise failing quadriceps. 🤔
Someone needs to make a formula that calculates for your limb and torso length, hip and shoulder width, and internal/external angles of rotation, and determines which stance and grip would be most optimal for your squat, bench, and deadlift.
As someone who spent many days looking for those answers I'd say trial and error is the best answer. But the general good starting points are in that order shoulder width, 1.5 shoulder width and shoulder width.
You can literally scour for pics of people proportioned similar to you. The ones with good technique with your proportions have good technique for your proportions.
I've found that lying down on your back and bringing your knees to your chest while keeping the back straight is a good way to find the optimal stance. Wherever your knees go with least restriction is probably going to be best for your anatomy.
Im having trouble with keeping the bar path straight, it drifts forward to my toes on the descent and i end upp good morning the weight. Any idees or tips to fix this? Been searching everywhere about it.. ankel mobility, hip mobility, raising the heels, high/low bar.. etc. Curently working on bringing up my quads too btw. And thanks for the awesome content Bromley! Always informative
I had this issue as well and my coach told me to hinge at the hips a little bit at the start of the squat and then squat normally. Makes the weight start more back instead of going forward. It made a huge difference for me. Bar stays midfoot much easier and I'm able to hold a better position all throughout my squat as well. It's not a huge break at the hips either, just a tiny hinge back. Just allowed me to sit in the hole for my squat better and let me knees go forward more. Maybe this can help you!
i am 5’9 my torso i super long and my legs are very short , i can put my forearms on my toes when i sit on the ground ! i’m upright high bar squat ! 500 is my max , but people are always shocked i am highbar
There are at least two more variables, weight, both yours and on the bar, and distance between you and the weight. This is why it easier to squat upright with plate, dumbell in goblet position or even hammer because you have counter balance. So equation will be leverages plus balance i.e. center of mass of whole system.
This may be a dumb question, but do you (or anyone) have any advice on how to reliably reproduce the same stance width and foot position every time? I have been squatting for years and still I will sometimes struggle with finding the right stance. It can really throw off a set for me if I take a long time to find a good stance or just yolo the first rep with a suboptimal stance (for me).
Hey! Yes, this was always a problem for me, constantly agonising over whether I've got a consistent stance. Let me give you my method which I've been using now for a couple of years and has removed this problem for me. 1. Establish the stance that's comfortable for you. 2. See what plate, when lain flat on the floor, corresponds to that width of stance (for me, in our gym, it's a 20Kg ZIVA plate, which puts my heels at shoulder width). 3. Stand with your insteps against the outside of the plate (for me, this will be a little below 9-3, maybe 8-4 which allows me to splay my feet out slightly at about 25 degrees. Use any markers on the flooring to further help you get your toes in exactly the same position every time). See how that feels. Adjust as necessary. For consistent squat depth, I go down to just touching a d/bell standing on end. Our 35K ZIVA d/bell allows a really deep squat - down to 13" above floor level. For me this is below horizontal without actually going A to G (at 64, I don't have that sort of mobility now). Now everything should be consistent. I add one rep every week to my working sets (for me, this is in total. For you, you may be able to achieve more rapid gains). After a number of weeks, once you've achieved your target rep-range, you've now got the choice to either stay at that squat depth and add more weight, or, use the next d/bell down to allow you to go a little deeper (if you've got the mobility). Time your rest periods to give you further consistency there. I use 90" every time. Now I know that every rep gained week on week can only be through strength gain since all the other variables remain the same. Measure, count, and record to know your target for your next squat workout. Best wishes.
I’m currently thinking along these same lines On the UA-cam channel squat University he uses a mat with lines on it so you can easily reproduce the same distance each time . Not angle tho I think I may keep experimenting with until I find a Stance I like then make something out of wood or mdf the sets the distance and the angle of my feet , then I won’t have to keep guessing and agonising over “but what if it’s a bit more comfortable 10mm wider and 3 more degrees on the ankle “ A rectangle piece of wood as a base . Then nail or screw in 2 thin strips of wood for each foot that sets the width and angle . You simply just put your feet in between the guiding strips and your all set. You could also put a thin strip of wood under one edge of the rectangular base board and that would tilt it up to create an angle just like a squat wedge or slant board. If doing that you’d maybe want to make it slightly more Complex so you have two separate slants for each foot and their specific angle so your feet don’t roll inwards
😄 In my garage I had my daughter trace an outline of my feet in their most comfortable spot and then just grooved that over and over until it was natural.
Both low bar squatters.. people should start with getting the bar off their traps and on to the shelf. Then open the legs and let the weight shift to the hips... It will feel so light and effortless. Instant massive shift. There is not a better way to squat.. the guys in the pics are more similar than different. High bar squats with close stance are something different but may have there place for some, but not for powerlifting.
This explains why I have gone weeks without deadlifting and hit a pr on deadlifts just rom squatting, I have long femurs and lean a ton, I can almost feel the bar roll forwards sometimes. And have a skewed 1rm relative to my rep strength
Oh my god. Thank you for this video. I’ve been squatting for a year now and recently injured my lower back doing so. No one ever understood why I always struggle with squats. So many people have tried telling me what to do. But now I’m understanding that I have long femurs. I don’t feel so crazy anymore for not being able to simply sit down.
The adductors are one of the main contributors to hip extension when you are below parallel. Stronger by science has an article on it. I feel them too, but the ache tends to go away once they are more conditioned
I got short femurs and have to squat with toes pointed outwards due to my hips. Been squatting seriously for over 2 years and almost got a 315lbs squat. I love squatting high bar too.
Eh faber test to determine if your feet point outward or inward. Some of that isn’t determined by that test but it’s a really good start. For example mine is internal rotation both when I sit and when I lay down so I’m a toe out position but I have a second negative with is long femurs. I use lifting shoes and now not only do I have the right foot placement but the angle of the shoe changes the fulcrum so my adductors aren’t killing me 2 days after.
im a 6.4 and i squat only 100kg. but i for some reason love going ass to grass and doing front squats, at ~ 70-80% weight. feels a lot better than just hips below knee. but i do have longish legs so i dont know...but i like the feeling.
may Allah bless you because us east africans have long ass femurs and ain’t no ass to grass, thought i was crazy when ppl were telling me keep my chest up like my body wasn’t right…, duhhh everybody is not built the same way!! that is why it’s always best to just listen to your body and not what everybody else is doing.
Big factor isn’t femur length. It’s hip displacement and how the socket is in the hip. Faber test both seated and laying down. If the foot tilts in vs out on both then toe out stance. If both legs tilt out easier than in the toes straight stance. If you get a mix between in and out between seated and laying down then you are somewhere in between.
@@keithlittle293 could be yea. But im training for martial arts and general strength so its not as important to me. Ssb, belt squats and hack squat/leg press saved me
Makes sense The counter balance of the weight more out in front allows me to lean back and have a more upright torso and less buttwink I got long femurs,,terrible ankle mobility and possibly deep hip sockets which are not good for deep squats
This answered a crucial question that has bugged me for years. My hips are so wide that I can only comfortably squat in what amounts to a sumo stance ala Dan Green & David Douglas. It always felt like I was cheating so I am really glad to get this perspective and background on my "goofy" squat stance.
Weight at the end of a long lever produces more force. When you're budging a Boulder or a stuck bolt, you are the weight and the fulcrum experiences that force; you want as much force on that object as possible. When you're lifting, the loaded bar is the weight and your hips and knees experience that force; in that case you want to put less force on the fulcrum so you want a shorter lever.
@@AlexanderBromley well said. In engineering you use a sheer/momemt diagram to show what forces are acting at each point of the system and in this case the highest moments are happening at the crease of the hips if you push your butt back or your knees if you shove them forward. Our knees and hips would be treated as "pinned" connections where an external force is needed to keep the system static (aka our quads, hams, etc.).
Bought a pair of squat wedges about a year ago. Able to keep more up right, back pain gone, actually enjoy squatting now. Bought these instead of lifting shoes because I like to squat in barefootshoes (of better yet, socks) so I can splay my toes out.
Good video! Love your content Dan Green is amazing. Although his heaviest squats were done low bar + wide stance, his close stance + high bar is a thing of beauty as well.
5:57 thanks for mentioning this! you always hear people say 'i have long/short femurs' so i always thought i had to be either one or the other, turns out im average legged with long arms
Would be really interested to see some discussion of how this feeds into a whole program developmentally. e.g. maybe you’re more advantaged with a hip-dominant low bar squat, but if you’re parceling out recovery in the context of a whole SBD program is there value in working in a less advantaged position so quad development doesn’t lag behind?
Pretty much exactly what I've been doing and good to see this sort of thing highlighted by Brom. I get pretty bad hip tendonitis and in the last half a year prepping for Oceanias (PA, Aus) I've seen some success squatting in flats and slightly wider stance, then switching back to heels and more upright for the heaviest lifts. Also swapping out some deadlift work for sumo (normally conventional) has seemed to help manage it. Interestingly, my sumo still trails my conventional deadlift, even after a decent period training it, so I tend to think all those people who think swapping to sumo immediately adds kilos to the bar probably don't lift (although maybe with more training it would catch up and maybe exceed my conv).
The more disadvantaged you are for a lift the harder it is to recover from. You might be best served by doing less fatiguing accessories that build the quads that aren't squats. I am somewhat mechanically disadvantaged for squats, I got the most out of doing hack squats and leg extensions. I also do one day low bar one day high bar paused. Im built absolutely terribly for deadift so much so that I just do it once a week and accessories only on the day that used to be my second deadlift day. Don't know if this will help, hope it does.
Outstanding video. I’ve been a competitive Olympic lifter for 53 years. I learned a lot from this video. Hip and ankle mobility are key for an upright squat position. Good hamstring flexibility is key for a good setup in the snatch. Tight hamstrings force a lifter to round their back to reach the bar.
Can someone explain the "pointed out hip sockets" part? I have long femurs and pushing my hips as far back as possible with my feet wide (like Dan Green) is the most mechanically advantageous way for me to lift as much as possible, but hitting depth is challenging and even painful. I feel pain in my front hip flexor areas and my arms will actually make contact with my legs making it harder to hit depth.
Pain when your leg is literally running out of room in the hip socket. more than likely you'll need to bring your feet forward rather than out to accommodate. Less fuck feet
What’s your ankle mobility like ? Have you tried the 5 inch wall test ? Have you ever tried using squat wedges at different heights , or using squat shoes with elevated heel ?
@@ourclarioncall I've never did an ankle mobility test because I think it's very good. I can front squats ATG easily with 200-300lbs and I mean a true ATG, like almost sitting in the floor. But back squats are a different story.
omg i cant thank you enough... why doesn't anybody talk this in bodybuilding? I have long femurs and i saw others squatting and though that why i can't squat like them until i got into powerbuilding, found you and other channel's video about squatting and this video. Thanks!
Great breakdown! I needed this badly. Thought my stance was always too wide, but now I know why it is so comfortable for me and won’t shy away from it. I got that Dan Green stance.
I always feel weaker on the eccentric lowering portion of the squat in those last couple inches toward parallel, but whenever I get down there the weight will go back up no problem. Any way to feel more confident getting comfortable dropping down?
I’ve tried every angle, foot placement, high bar, low bar, elevated heel, etc. Everything. And I still hurt or just completely fail the lift. 15yrs I’ve been lifting.
You ever tried filming yourself ? I have to use high squat wedges and also a 20lb garden slab held out in front of me as a counterbalance I have long femurs and really bad ankle mobility . I can just about get to parallel without too much buttwink creeping in The 20lb held out in front help me lean back and maintain a more upright torso which stops buttwink coming in too fast . Without it I would be leaning forward to keep my balance and not fall over , and when I lean over buttwink kicks in. I don’t think I would ever be able to do back squat and don’t really care. I think safety bar/front squat or zercher squat is the way to go for my body and will give me that counterbalance I need to get to parallel with an upright torso and no buttwink . There’s not much change of my squatting deep with my body but il settle for good quality squat to parallel
@@ourclarioncall filming would be a good idea. Holding the weight out front definitely helps like you mentioned. Safety squat bar helps replicate that but once the weight gets heavy it starts to become harder 😅
I have long femurs, first learned how to squat high bar. Switched to low bar eventually but it felt like shit and my knees were always inflamed so I ended up switching to a kind of hybrid bar position, feels pretty good.
When I stopped worrying about what other people thought of my squat, the pain and discomfort went away. I barely reach parallel and my long legs are out wide but I feel so much better throughout the movement
Its funny how big my personal discrepancy in between high bar and low bar is lol even though i have a hybrid high bar squat . I can 1rm high bar squat for an rpe 8 or 9 triple after already having trained back squats and bulgarian split squats ...
when i realized my femur length was limiting quad muscle growth I stopped doing squats all together, to me quad growth was the primary and i now do leg presses and extensions instead which really helped growth significantly.
![Squat Form For Your Anatomy [Perfect Depth Stance And Width]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7FF6VLej_bY/mqdefault.jpg)
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I've been training for about 10 years. Every rep of squats, of every set, of every workout, feels like I'm squatting for the first time. It has never felt right.
Try a few months of front squats or zombie squats, nothing makes you appreciate squats like a more disadvantaged squat. More disadvantaged also means more developmental so expect some quad and upper back growth.
@@Bombsuitsandkilts I second this. I'm built for low bar squats, but I hardly do them. 80% of my training is on an SSB. When I switch to low bar, it's like hitting the cheat codes. After a short learning and intensity block I'll always easily PR the lift.
@@Bombsuitsandkilts part of me feels like I should abandon back squats and focus solely on front squats. I love them and feel so much more comfortable
@@Pete0621 what is your sport and what are your goals? As long as you have enough posterior work it wouldn't be a problem for a long training block. I warm up front squats and then when it gets heavy switch to back squats up to a heavy single, then lower to my back off work with front squats. Definitely not a problem to do both in the same workout and just spend the most time on whichever is your main goal for that training block.
@@Bombsuitsandkilts I just train for fun. I lean toward powerlifting, but love a good pump as well. Just started my first day of Bullmastiff today.
Love the cameo from Idalberto! One of my fav lifters ever. Guy moves at lightning speed even at 250kg it’s insane.
its crazy. my femur and tibia are nearly the same length being extremely long. and i noticed that looking down is much more comfortable then keeping my chest up and looking forward.
This explain a lot! Not only do I have short femurs, but, I have a long torso. I defaulted to highbar squat because it was “comfortable”.
As a result, my deadlifts are absolutely abysmal because of under developed hip hinging muscles. So I purposely switched to recently to stimulate the hamstrings and hipflexors, and it’s like starting as a beginner again because it’s hitting all these muscle groups I never used.
As a structural engineer this video makes me so happy. Lots of moments and talk of archimedes!
This was very illuminating. I have been frustrated with the squat since i started lifting in my teens, over 30 years ago. I have very long femurs for my hieght as well as very closed hips. If my stance isnt the right width, feet pointed out exactly right, and knees tracking perfectly out over my toes, it's painful and occasionally injury inducing. When i was younger it seemed like i had a little more leeway. But with age mobility has exasperated the issue and reaching full depth has become an issue. My muscles feel recovered after 2-3 days, but the hips are still aching and popping a week later!
what a great video! Thanks for the insights.
Gold. I keep coming back to this
I have longer femurs but have only ever felt comfortable doing a narrower squat and I prefer ATG. What’s helped me more than anything has been improving my ankle dorsiflexion to keep my body upright.
Not as long as u might think
I thought the same
Kinda long legs, but then I'm like how tf can I be so upright during low bar squat then. I don't even need to lean forward much to keep the weight across the middle of my feet.
Turns out I'm just tall overall, but my legs are pretty much average length...
You don't have long femurs, long is a relative term to your torso and tibia.
@@saadouch 100% true story
@@saadouch uh yeah
Same with the femur thing.. I prefer front squats
Good video, however, You should dig more into anteversion and retro version of the femur/hip socket. This is also a crucial factor for squatting “mobility”. Some people can never mobilize to a deep squat.
Great advice. Been having issue with squat (knee surgeries, etc.) now I realized I have a long femur now I got to lean forward to squat to sit right.
One of your best Bromley
Bromley - awesome as usual!
Thanks for these videos
I think a lot of people miss the importance of tibia length in the squat. I'm glad you mentioned it. I would be built decently for squats if it weren't for my tibia length. Alsooooo I think so many people try to do the lowest low bar. If you have a longer torso and shorter tibia this likely will not work for you. I switched to a mid bar position and feel way better.
Do you reckon you'll do one of these on bench? Cheers heaps for all the amazing content.
Great info Alex
i typicall squat high bar because low bar has always led to injury (piriformis syndrome or straight sciatic pain) yet i deadlift much more than my squat (sumo and conventional) any ideas why? any recommendations?
New sub. Great info!
Speaking as someone who is 78% femur, looking down is OK, but if you lose concentration doing higher reps, it's good morning America
Is what’s your advice on feet turnout? My feet naturally want to turn out a lot. It’s what’s most comfortable for me.
Is there ever a situation where turning out your feet too much is bad?
You generally just want to make sure that your knees are "tracking" over your toes at the angle you use, aka your knees follow the angle of your feet, and don't pull further in towards your center at whichever angle you pick. Otherwise, as long as you don't have discomfort in your joints and it feels like a strong position (along with the other points in the vid), then a slightly more open angle might just be what's right for you. The only time turning your feet out may potentially be less optimal could be when trying to do a high bar or front squat specifically when targeting the quads, but that would also depend on other factors as well.
great stuff
- Long Femur ✅️
- Short Tibia ✅️
- Poor ankle mobility/dorsiflexion ✅️
- long back ✅️
...i HATE squats. I HATE deadlifts...i HATE gym...i HATE life...😂😂
For referance, im 6'1 (185) in the morning. Sitting down im about 37" - 37.5"...which according to my comparisons with people..is same as 6'4 - 6'6 who are reasonably proportional, And even upto 6'8 dudes who are all legs lol.
My tibia is either the same as or sometimes shorter than 5'8 - 5'10 people. My femur however is long. From butt to knee (including muscle/fat and other tissue)..its probably close to 2ft. Femur itself is about 18in - 19in
Trouser Inseam is about 30-31. But i can get away with 32" with about 2" hanging below ankles. I also have 28" trousers which are a tad short. 34" trousers need exactly 4" of folding.
Easy solution, do front squats and Romanian Deadlift instead of Back Squat and regular Deadlift
ALL of these guys (except the weightlifters) are squatting high. It's insane. The standard is BELOW parallel! Many are a half inch above!!
I have crazy long femurs but also nutso ankle mobility so I guess it kind of balances out
Front squats are very natural feeling for me. I do high bar back squats, and they feel pretty good. My issue is that I try to stay upright and end up arching my lower back as I go down, and I can't seem to break that habit and just keep my back straight. Any advice on fixing that?
try actively tilting your pelvis forward near the bottom of your squat (start with lighter weight ofc)
dan is 2nd i think in highest squat of all time,vlad alhazov did 525 but didnt finish the meet so dan has the highest full meet squat.
I'm a tall guy. I can't high bar squat for shit, yet I can do frontsquats just fine. Strange.
I'm having a hard time figuring out whether I have long or short femurs
If you are watching this and not subbed, sort your life out.
I’m 6’3
Stopped squatting, leg press variations for long femur mofos are a life saver
This is one of the greatest breakdowns of squatting mechanics I've ever come across. Thanks for the great synopsis.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm a long femur lifter myself. Can't tell you how good it feels when knowledgeable lifters such as youself - cover this topic. When I'm at the gym I often find myself explaining to people who tell me to "siMpLY rEMaiN uPriGHT iN My SqUAt" that biomechanics are a thing..
Indeed. My squatting is horrendous
Long femurs and terrible ankle mobility .
The only way I can just get an ok parallel squat is by using high squat wedges and a 20lb garden slab held arms length out in front of me as a counterbalance. This allows me to get a more upright position and stop buttwink creeping in too early .
I was quite surprised tonight to find I’m quite liking a narrower stance when I was sure wife was the way to go for my hips which seem to be deep hip sockets and not the shallow ones that are good for deep squatting.
It’s good to film yourself and really experiment
I don’t think I will ever be able back squat , so safety bar/front squat/zercher squat/heavy goblet or just holding heavy plate out in front is probably going to suit me best for a while while I continue to work on mobility
Im just glad im finding people like me everybody woukd say to may why are you leaning forward etc. I knew something was wrong when i noticed my hacksquat is wayy heavier than my normal squat unlike others
This helps me understand why I enjoy squatting even though I have long legs. I have to work at making myself shorter; wide stance, low bar, head up. It's not just an exercise. It's a project.
You mean long femurs? I have and it makes my back position too much angle.
Maybe I should get more power lower back? Then more upright stance and squat?
@@kipponi I have both long femurs and long tibia. Fortunately, I have good ankle mobility. Back position still has to feel natural - not forced upright. I’ve been using a yoke bar (safety squat) occasionally. That keeps the back more upright. Squatting to me is as much a back exercise as it is a leg exercise, so overall back strength is helpful in avoiding the ‘squat morning’. Back extensions, reverse hypers, good mornings, RDLs, straight-leg deadlifts, and plenty of others are useful for building the spinal erectors. Proprioception also plays a roll. If you maintain awareness you can fight the inclination to lean too much forward.
Same here,
Saaaaaammmeee. I used to hate squats until I tried and learnt for my body, and all of a sudden I was hitting PBs!!!! As a woman I got to 1.2x
Very helpful video. I'm a tall, heavy, long legged guy and have always had a squat that is disproportionately worse than my dl and bench. The visual explanation at 14:30 was so helpful for wrapping my head around the leverages in a way that descriptions or charts never could. And being a similar build to Lasha it was great to learn about him and a breakdown of how he works around his advantages and disadvantages. Great stuff, lots to take away from this thank you!
My femurs are 3” longer than they should be, arms are 3” shorter than they should be and I have a hyper mobility disorder so I have issues with joints and injuries frequently.
Yet I want to be a powerlifter or strongman even though I injure myself so easily and I’m a glass t-Rex.
I also only high bar squat even though I have very long femurs. I’m 5’11” and have femurs of a 6’7” man.
I could deadlift 3x my bodyweight for a few reps yet I could only squat 2.5x my bodyweight for 1 rep I knew this was down to leverages long limbs short body... Good info
That's actually fine ratio all in all
That's 3.3x or so 1rm deadlift and 2.5 for squat. That's fine either way actually. Who cares.
That's a good squat.. 2.5 bodyweight
@el eija depends on the bw. Those ratios can't be compared within different bodyweight categories. For an 80kg short guy it's not that hard to get to 3-3.5x bw squat and deadlift even 4x and above If sumo and soft bar.
But for someone 100-110kg it's already a different story a little bit.
I am definitely a shorter femur person. I have noticed i have always squatted more upright than many people. It makes sense watching your video.
Elite olympic lifters are fascinating to watch as their torso angles are basically unchanged throughout the squat. 99% have perfect proportions for upright squats. Then you look at Blaine Sumner...
There was a super neat study review on Stronger By Science by sir gnuckols that talked about how the quad-load tends to the be same between medium and high load squatting, and then the glutes get recruited more and more as you get closer to max loads. This fits really well into what you see with people squat morning at higher loads :D
Kinda makes sense. Instead of thinking technical failure squat morning could be a bodily reflex trying to recruit more glute and back in an effort to assist otherwise failing quadriceps. 🤔
I appreciate that visual representation of leverages.
Someone needs to make a formula that calculates for your limb and torso length, hip and shoulder width, and internal/external angles of rotation, and determines which stance and grip would be most optimal for your squat, bench, and deadlift.
As someone who spent many days looking for those answers I'd say trial and error is the best answer. But the general good starting points are in that order shoulder width, 1.5 shoulder width and shoulder width.
You can literally scour for pics of people proportioned similar to you. The ones with good technique with your proportions have good technique for your proportions.
@@Tumpz There's just no shortcut around experience.
I've found that lying down on your back and bringing your knees to your chest while keeping the back straight is a good way to find the optimal stance. Wherever your knees go with least restriction is probably going to be best for your anatomy.
But ankle mobility can throw this off
My femurs are as long as my torso so my low bar is the same as my bench 💀
Im having trouble with keeping the bar path straight, it drifts forward to my toes on the descent and i end upp good morning the weight. Any idees or tips to fix this? Been searching everywhere about it.. ankel mobility, hip mobility, raising the heels, high/low bar.. etc. Curently working on bringing up my quads too btw.
And thanks for the awesome content Bromley! Always informative
I had this issue as well and my coach told me to hinge at the hips a little bit at the start of the squat and then squat normally. Makes the weight start more back instead of going forward. It made a huge difference for me. Bar stays midfoot much easier and I'm able to hold a better position all throughout my squat as well. It's not a huge break at the hips either, just a tiny hinge back. Just allowed me to sit in the hole for my squat better and let me knees go forward more. Maybe this can help you!
Thanks man! Will try this next squat day
i am 5’9 my torso i super long and my legs are very short , i can put my forearms on my toes when i sit on the ground ! i’m upright high bar squat ! 500 is my max , but people are always shocked i am highbar
What about the "french squatS" (Panash, Tiffany Chapon, Lya Bavoil,...). Very unique techniques that seem to work for their different body types
There are at least two more variables, weight, both yours and on the bar, and distance between you and the weight. This is why it easier to squat upright with plate, dumbell in goblet position or even hammer because you have counter balance. So equation will be leverages plus balance i.e. center of mass of whole system.
This may be a dumb question, but do you (or anyone) have any advice on how to reliably reproduce the same stance width and foot position every time? I have been squatting for years and still I will sometimes struggle with finding the right stance. It can really throw off a set for me if I take a long time to find a good stance or just yolo the first rep with a suboptimal stance (for me).
Hey! Yes, this was always a problem for me, constantly agonising over whether I've got a consistent stance. Let me give you my method which I've been using now for a couple of years and has removed this problem for me.
1. Establish the stance that's comfortable for you. 2. See what plate, when lain flat on the floor, corresponds to that width of stance (for me, in our gym, it's a 20Kg ZIVA plate, which puts my heels at shoulder width). 3. Stand with your insteps against the outside of the plate (for me, this will be a little below 9-3, maybe 8-4 which allows me to splay my feet out slightly at about 25 degrees. Use any markers on the flooring to further help you get your toes in exactly the same position every time). See how that feels. Adjust as necessary. For consistent squat depth, I go down to just touching a d/bell standing on end. Our 35K ZIVA d/bell allows a really deep squat - down to 13" above floor level. For me this is below horizontal without actually going A to G (at 64, I don't have that sort of mobility now). Now everything should be consistent. I add one rep every week to my working sets (for me, this is in total. For you, you may be able to achieve more rapid gains). After a number of weeks, once you've achieved your target rep-range, you've now got the choice to either stay at that squat depth and add more weight, or, use the next d/bell down to allow you to go a little deeper (if you've got the mobility). Time your rest periods to give you further consistency there. I use 90" every time. Now I know that every rep gained week on week can only be through strength gain since all the other variables remain the same. Measure, count, and record to know your target for your next squat workout. Best wishes.
I’m currently thinking along these same lines
On the UA-cam channel squat University he uses a mat with lines on it so you can easily reproduce the same distance each time . Not angle tho
I think I may keep experimenting with until I find a Stance I like then make something out of wood or mdf the sets the distance and the angle of my feet , then I won’t have to keep guessing and agonising over “but what if it’s a bit more comfortable 10mm wider and 3 more degrees on the ankle “
A rectangle piece of wood as a base . Then nail or screw in 2 thin strips of wood for each foot that sets the width and angle . You simply just put your feet in between the guiding strips and your all set.
You could also put a thin strip of wood under one edge of the rectangular base board and that would tilt it up to create an angle just like a squat wedge or slant board. If doing that you’d maybe want to make it slightly more Complex so you have two separate slants for each foot and their specific angle so your feet don’t roll inwards
😄 In my garage I had my daughter trace an outline of my feet in their most comfortable spot and then just grooved that over and over until it was natural.
I've re-watched this multiple times since you posted it. Great information. Keep up the good work Bromley!
Both low bar squatters.. people should start with getting the bar off their traps and on to the shelf. Then open the legs and let the weight shift to the hips... It will feel so light and effortless. Instant massive shift. There is not a better way to squat.. the guys in the pics are more similar than different.
High bar squats with close stance are something different but may have there place for some, but not for powerlifting.
This explains why I have gone weeks without deadlifting and hit a pr on deadlifts just rom squatting, I have long femurs and lean a ton, I can almost feel the bar roll forwards sometimes. And have a skewed 1rm relative to my rep strength
Oh my god. Thank you for this video. I’ve been squatting for a year now and recently injured my lower back doing so. No one ever understood why I always struggle with squats. So many people have tried telling me what to do. But now I’m understanding that I have long femurs. I don’t feel so crazy anymore for not being able to simply sit down.
I get really bad DOMS from squats in my adductors doesn’t matter if I go light or heavy or move my stance in or out
Me to, what does that mean?
The adductors are one of the main contributors to hip extension when you are below parallel. Stronger by science has an article on it. I feel them too, but the ache tends to go away once they are more conditioned
I got short femurs and have to squat with toes pointed outwards due to my hips. Been squatting seriously for over 2 years and almost got a 315lbs squat. I love squatting high bar too.
Eh faber test to determine if your feet point outward or inward. Some of that isn’t determined by that test but it’s a really good start. For example mine is internal rotation both when I sit and when I lay down so I’m a toe out position but I have a second negative with is long femurs. I use lifting shoes and now not only do I have the right foot placement but the angle of the shoe changes the fulcrum so my adductors aren’t killing me 2 days after.
How would you define long va short femur. What is it in comparison to? Is it a percentage of total height?
Matt Wenning should watch this vid lmao
im a 6.4 and i squat only 100kg. but i for some reason love going ass to grass and doing front squats, at ~ 70-80% weight. feels a lot better than just hips below knee. but i do have longish legs so i dont know...but i like the feeling.
I’m able to squat 355 and 170 body weight because of how small my femurs are 😂 I’m like 5’3
may Allah bless you because us east africans have long ass femurs and ain’t no ass to grass, thought i was crazy when ppl were telling me keep my chest up like my body wasn’t right…, duhhh everybody is not built the same way!! that is why it’s always best to just listen to your body and not what everybody else is doing.
Big factor isn’t femur length. It’s hip displacement and how the socket is in the hip. Faber test both seated and laying down. If the foot tilts in vs out on both then toe out stance. If both legs tilt out easier than in the toes straight stance. If you get a mix between in and out between seated and laying down then you are somewhere in between.
Bromley you are the man!!
My femurs are longer than my torso, I hate back squats with a passion, I love front squats tho.
Same
Same, but front squats make my hands and shoulders sore. SSB squags ftw
@@copeenthuisiast5453 maybe mobility flexibility issues in shoulders/chest wrists.. I find them hard if I'd worked push workouts..
@@keithlittle293 could be yea. But im training for martial arts and general strength so its not as important to me. Ssb, belt squats and hack squat/leg press saved me
Makes sense
The counter balance of the weight more out in front allows me to lean back and have a more upright torso and less buttwink
I got long femurs,,terrible ankle mobility and possibly deep hip sockets which are not good for deep squats
This answered a crucial question that has bugged me for years. My hips are so wide that I can only comfortably squat in what amounts to a sumo stance ala Dan Green & David Douglas. It always felt like I was cheating so I am really glad to get this perspective and background on my "goofy" squat stance.
Also check out David Woolson (Brazos Valley Strenght channel) Ultra wide stance but still hitting depth. Some people are just built that way.
@@stoempert Thanks, brother. That's exactly my stance. Crazy wide. I appreciate you pointing me towards him.
This is why I always sucked at physics. If a longer lever produces more force why do we want a shorter one?
Weight at the end of a long lever produces more force. When you're budging a Boulder or a stuck bolt, you are the weight and the fulcrum experiences that force; you want as much force on that object as possible. When you're lifting, the loaded bar is the weight and your hips and knees experience that force; in that case you want to put less force on the fulcrum so you want a shorter lever.
@@AlexanderBromley inside my clouded head I was starting to lean toward this lol thanks a lot buddy!
@@AlexanderBromley well said. In engineering you use a sheer/momemt diagram to show what forces are acting at each point of the system and in this case the highest moments are happening at the crease of the hips if you push your butt back or your knees if you shove them forward. Our knees and hips would be treated as "pinned" connections where an external force is needed to keep the system static (aka our quads, hams, etc.).
Thank you Alex, always valuable info with clear presentation here.
Watching John haack's squat hurts my knees
Jeez this is such good information. And it makes me feel a lot better about my (what ive always been told) suboptimal squatting form lol
Thanks for giving us the lowdown on squatters' rights.
When I squat it’s a back exercise which is weird cuz I’m short af
Bought a pair of squat wedges about a year ago. Able to keep more up right, back pain gone, actually enjoy squatting now. Bought these instead of lifting shoes because I like to squat in barefootshoes (of better yet, socks) so I can splay my toes out.
Well fuck it I have dwarfism 😂😂
Good video! Love your content
Dan Green is amazing. Although his heaviest squats were done low bar + wide stance, his close stance + high bar is a thing of beauty as well.
Could just watch Lasha all day tbh. The huge power belly, how easy it makes it all look. That's the shit right there
Bro I’ve been sharing your shit with everyone. I love the knowledge dumps you give. 100k here we come!
5:57 thanks for mentioning this! you always hear people say 'i have long/short femurs' so i always thought i had to be either one or the other, turns out im average legged with long arms
Ayoo The Real Knowledge is here keep it up man Thanks buddy ❤️
when i squat i lift on my toes. xD cant help it
Your videos have been so great for someone who is new to powerlifting. I am constantly working on form and improving and being optimal / realistic.
I love my weightlifting shoes.
Would be really interested to see some discussion of how this feeds into a whole program developmentally. e.g. maybe you’re more advantaged with a hip-dominant low bar squat, but if you’re parceling out recovery in the context of a whole SBD program is there value in working in a less advantaged position so quad development doesn’t lag behind?
Pretty much exactly what I've been doing and good to see this sort of thing highlighted by Brom. I get pretty bad hip tendonitis and in the last half a year prepping for Oceanias (PA, Aus) I've seen some success squatting in flats and slightly wider stance, then switching back to heels and more upright for the heaviest lifts. Also swapping out some deadlift work for sumo (normally conventional) has seemed to help manage it. Interestingly, my sumo still trails my conventional deadlift, even after a decent period training it, so I tend to think all those people who think swapping to sumo immediately adds kilos to the bar probably don't lift (although maybe with more training it would catch up and maybe exceed my conv).
The more disadvantaged you are for a lift the harder it is to recover from. You might be best served by doing less fatiguing accessories that build the quads that aren't squats. I am somewhat mechanically disadvantaged for squats, I got the most out of doing hack squats and leg extensions. I also do one day low bar one day high bar paused. Im built absolutely terribly for deadift so much so that I just do it once a week and accessories only on the day that used to be my second deadlift day. Don't know if this will help, hope it does.
This helped immensely , always had issues visualizing all of the variables from written descriptions!
Outstanding video. I’ve been a competitive Olympic lifter for 53 years. I learned a lot from this video. Hip and ankle mobility are key for an upright squat position. Good hamstring flexibility is key for a good setup in the snatch. Tight hamstrings force a lifter to round their back to reach the bar.
Can someone explain the "pointed out hip sockets" part? I have long femurs and pushing my hips as far back as possible with my feet wide (like Dan Green) is the most mechanically advantageous way for me to lift as much as possible, but hitting depth is challenging and even painful. I feel pain in my front hip flexor areas and my arms will actually make contact with my legs making it harder to hit depth.
Pain when your leg is literally running out of room in the hip socket. more than likely you'll need to bring your feet forward rather than out to accommodate. Less fuck feet
What’s your ankle mobility like ? Have you tried the 5 inch wall test ?
Have you ever tried using squat wedges at different heights , or using squat shoes with elevated heel ?
@@ourclarioncall I've never did an ankle mobility test because I think it's very good. I can front squats ATG easily with 200-300lbs and I mean a true ATG, like almost sitting in the floor. But back squats are a different story.
Goated video
omg i cant thank you enough... why doesn't anybody talk this in bodybuilding? I have long femurs and i saw others squatting and though that why i can't squat like them until i got into powerbuilding, found you and other channel's video about squatting and this video. Thanks!
Great breakdown! I needed this badly. Thought my stance was always too wide, but now I know why it is so comfortable for me and won’t shy away from it. I got that Dan Green stance.
I always feel weaker on the eccentric lowering portion of the squat in those last couple inches toward parallel, but whenever I get down there the weight will go back up no problem.
Any way to feel more confident getting comfortable dropping down?
Use two bands from above attached to bar..
@@keithlittle293 would chains work too? As in , the closer you get to the floor , the floor starts carrying the weight of the chain
@@ourclarioncall yeah they would work too
I’ve tried every angle, foot placement, high bar, low bar, elevated heel, etc. Everything. And I still hurt or just completely fail the lift. 15yrs I’ve been lifting.
You ever tried filming yourself ?
I have to use high squat wedges and also a 20lb garden slab held out in front of me as a counterbalance
I have long femurs and really bad ankle mobility .
I can just about get to parallel without too much buttwink creeping in
The 20lb held out in front help me lean back and maintain a more upright torso which stops buttwink coming in too fast . Without it I would be leaning forward to keep my balance and not fall over , and when I lean over buttwink kicks in.
I don’t think I would ever be able to do back squat and don’t really care. I think safety bar/front squat or zercher squat is the way to go for my body and will give me that counterbalance I need to get to parallel with an upright torso and no buttwink .
There’s not much change of my squatting deep with my body but il settle for good quality squat to parallel
@@ourclarioncall filming would be a good idea. Holding the weight out front definitely helps like you mentioned. Safety squat bar helps replicate that but once the weight gets heavy it starts to become harder 😅
@@dannyd938 ah interesting. I’ve never tried it .
@@dannyd938 I'm like you, I just do front Squat now. I'll never do back Squat as it doesn't work with my build
long femurs gang wwa
This guy is smart
I have long femurs, first learned how to squat high bar. Switched to low bar eventually but it felt like shit and my knees were always inflamed so I ended up switching to a kind of hybrid bar position, feels pretty good.
When I stopped worrying about what other people thought of my squat, the pain and discomfort went away. I barely reach parallel and my long legs are out wide but I feel so much better throughout the movement
good luck in the OSG!
Squat is a so basic movement. Sure, leg muscles can be stimulated by 100 other excercises but squat will never disappoint.
I totalt agree
Great video!
Its funny how big my personal discrepancy in between high bar and low bar is lol even though i have a hybrid high bar squat . I can 1rm high bar squat for an rpe 8 or 9 triple after already having trained back squats and bulgarian split squats ...
when i realized my femur length was limiting quad muscle growth I stopped doing squats all together, to me quad growth was the primary and i now do leg presses and extensions instead which really helped growth significantly.
I love GreySkull the program I'm doing , I feel mad like CT Fletcher after