All That’s Wrong With My Porsche 928! It’s Not Good! Porsche 928 Revival - Part 2
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2022
- Have I bought a total calamity of a car? YES! Well what do you expect when you buy a car several thousand miles across the country sight-unseen? I can only hope that buying a car from a priest will be some kind of savior. There has to be some kind of backstop there, right? If you can’t make an honest sale from a priest then what is the world - the universe! - coming to?
In this one then, let’s take it to an expert for a once-over. My friend Matt at Collector Car Services of Danbury CT knows Porsche 928s well. He knows all the ins and outs of this model and I have also done some of my own research as to what I think we will need to get this car safely back on the road. Like any car renewal, we will build a list, prioritize it and do it over time. I am due down at Amelia Island in it in a few weeks so there is a time peril!
Join me to show you what is wrong with this car - it is ALL the usual stuff on Porsche 928s - as we talk about it with a knowledgeable and honest mechanic!
All written, researched and edited by me. You can download all my Porsche model guides at www.jayreadyoutube.com so go and take a look there, OK?
Why not follow me on Instagram too? I am a CAR guy first and I get around so take a look at the reels and pictures that I take because you might like them! Also you get news on my own Porsche, my MG and other life events there before UA-cam! Look for jayreadyoutube on Insta now!
Here is the link to Collector Car Services: www.collectorcarct.com
#porsche928 #carrestoration - Авто та транспорт
Well, at least you know more. A few points:
#1 - The timing belt can be inspected, at least somewhat, without major disassembly. Pull the air intake tubes. There are vent holes in the top of the TB covers. They aren't big, about 3/4" (19mm), but you can see the belt and how it tracks on the gears. Also, with the tubes off, you can unbolt the upper left (driver's side) cover and pull it forward some. Not enough to actually remove it, but you can get a pretty good look at the belt.
#2 - Steering rack isn't all that big of a deal. Not cheap, but rebuilds are readily available. Unless you (or Matt) has experience in rebuilding them, don't try to do it yourself. It's not a job for the untrained or inexperienced. Too much is too precise and too easy to make a minor mistake and have it leak (which means do it over again). When you pull the rack, you can also replace the hoses, which is needed. The P/S fluid reservoir has a non-replaceable filter in it. New reservoirs aren't super expensive.
#3 - Pan gasket likely needs replacement. There are a couple alternatives, the newer 'thin green one' is best. Cork is just cork and the fat silicone one needs to be installed 'just right'. I had to do mine twice because I didn't get it right the first time.
With the rack out, you're already halfway there, so doing both at the same time is a good plan.
Also, your motor mounts are likely squashed. The bottom of the oil pan should be at the same level as the bottom of the steering rack. Your pan is down a good bit, so the MMs are likely bad. Factory replacements are stupid expensive. Fortunately, people have found there are Volvo mounts that are a direct substitute. Maybe not quite as good as factory, but at 1/5th the price, they are a good alternative. I've had a set in for 9 years and they are holding up fine.
#4 - The PorKen tensioner is a good idea. Actual hydraulic tensioning, self adjusting for wear, stretch and that sort of thing. Factory tensioner just eases off tension as the block heats up and expands. Nothing else. Colin Jensen's comment below is right on. Helpful hint: Colin is probably the best 928 tech in the Pacific Northwest. He's been working on 928s for a LONG time and really knows his stuff.
#5 - I'm not super up to speed on the auto transmissions, but there's fluid in the torque converter. There's a drain plug on it. That may be leaking. Also, there's a shaft seal on the Toque converter. That may be leaking.
#6 - Last but not least, there is pretty good parts support for these cars. One of the better places is 928s R Us down in Texas. Roger Tyson is a hell of a nice fella, who REALLY knows these cars. He has something like 8 of them. He has spreadsheets for each major job and can create a 'care package' consisting of everything needed.
If you want something from him, it's best to call. Actually dial the phone and use your voice. His website is ok, but not really complete. He has just about everything, but it's not all on his site. And, again, he knows the cars. So if you say "I need the doohicky that attaches to the whatchamacalli', he'll know what you mean. He'll ALSO let you know that you probably need the thingamajig that goes on the doohickey to do the job right. And as noted above, he's a hell of a nice fella. I generally plan on an extra 15 or 20 minutes when I call because we always end up just chatting about the cars.
Joe! I think YOU are a hell of a nice fella! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This is an epic post that is super helpful for me and for my audience. Can’t thank you enough! I’m going to call Roger now!
Absolutely wonderful advice, seems you've been around the car a lot! I loved my 86.5, and was sad to see it go, but had to give it up as arthritis prevented me from remaining being my own mechanic, and there's simply a dearth of 928 specialists in my area these days. Hope you still have yours, though, and get to remain enjoying it for a long time!
Just bought an eighty eight 928 S4 with a genuine and documented 54500 miles. Cambelt last done in 2006 and 5000 miles ago, so straight in to get that done. A few little faults, the rear wiper has a mind of it's own and interior boot release buttons, one clicks but doesn't open and the does nothing, but got £400 knocked off for new switches. A collector dropped mine and another in on a part ex for a 911 turbo.
If the radiator is still original, consider changing it. My 87 S4 radiator worked perfectly, but then the transmission cooler in the radiator ruptured, filling the auto trans with radiator water and the engine coolant with trans fluid. Very expensive trans rebuild could have been avoided with a much cheaper radiator replacement.
No shortage of content here Jay! It’s interesting to see you get the right balance of repair, maintenance and prettiness 😊. Great!
I am pretty, aren’t I, Barrie?! Thank you!
Before spending anything check the crankshaft thrust bearing clearance. If out of spec the motor is toast. If good, you are in for the usual deferred maintenance journey. About $10k to $15k in parts plus labour. I bought my ‘88 S4 in similar condition 5 years ago. Took 3 years to do the mechanical restoration (drive in summer, do projects in winter), and then 2 years to do the cosmetics. Put about 5,000 miles a year on it… great Driving cars, but catching up on 30 years of neglect is expensive. There’s no such thing as a cheap 928… they all cost about the same… you just get to choose your payment plan.
Thanks!
Cierto es, cada vez estos coches son mas costosos de reparar, con menos piezas y cada vez con menos entendidos, la recuperación del coche es muy cara, desde luego teniendo el dinero suficiente la restauración merece mucho la pena, es un coche maravilloso, es una verdadera delicia conducirlo, compre un S4 MK2 del 89 manual hace 6 años y ya he gastado 25.000 euros en la reconstrucción, motor completo, embrague, suspensiones y un sin fin de puntadas para este maravilloso coche
The biggest problem with these is they were long unloved, and very expensive to repair, yet cheap to buy, so most have not been maintained.
Totally right! That is in fact more or less precisely what my mechanic says in the next video!
With a substantial amount of help from Eclectic Motorworks in Holland, Michigan, we've been sorting a low-mileage (32k) '80 928 5-speed manual I acquired 18 months ago. A labor of love, but like other "loves," the effort has not been inexpensive. The worst of it was the need to remove and rebuild the transaxle. It went to Greg Brown in California for what was amazingly high-quality work, The car literally feels like new; tranny is perfect. (Eclectic has another 928 in their care and re-launching right now.) Anyway good luck. The 928 is a true GT tourer and I think--long term--will see a satisfying continued valuation build.
Nice! Might need your advice as we go along! Stay tuned!
@HeyBeerDan Where are you located? I'm about an hour south of Holland and would love to see your car. I picked up a '84 Euro manual that needs a lot of work.
@@farginicehole513 I'm in Saugatuck. The shop I mentioned--Eclectic in Holland--has a Euro ('85, I think) receiving a lot of work right now. If you decide to stop by for a look, let me know. My '80 is also stored with those guys.
@@heybeerdan1820 Are you a Rennlist member? If so, I can P.M. you.
This car will leave you destitute, stop now Jay!
I fear I might be addicted! Somebody help me!
I totally agree Nick. I wouldn't have driven it home. I say the cost to get it road worthy is over $5k. Can't wait to see future videos.
Nick 😂
Timing belt and water pump are a must do if you have no maintenance records. Timing belt is good for about 55,000 miles and then you want to take it back in after about 1,500 miles on the new belt to get it tensioned again as it will loosen up a bit. Replace the clutch slave cylinder while you have the steering rack out. It’s about a $100 part and easy to change. Your power steering reservoir hoses always get brittle and need replacing. The radiator should be replaced with an aluminum one as the stock units are plastic and crack. Replace all your vacuum lines with silicone lines as those won’t get brittle like the stock lines. Check your fuel line hoses (not the steel parts of the lines) because they are prone to failure and will cause an engine fire. There are three of those and you can buy upgraded, after market lines that you’ll never have to worry about. You can drop $5,000 to $8,000 on that car easily if it hasn’t had lots done on it. I’m happy to be a resource for you as I’ve had my 86.5 for a long time and also use to own an 84. The best place for parts is 928 International in Anaheim, CA and you can get those fuel lines from them. Mark Anderson is the owner and I’ve purchased most items from him over the years. He knows those cars inside and out so he’s a fantastic resource:). Feel free to message me any time as I’m happy to help you with anything as I know these cars well! My name is Eric.
Thanks so much, Eric. I REALLY appreciate this! Yes, it’s going in for its TB and WP as soon as I can get time from Matt, the car’s star mechanic. He will do the the other stuff over time too. I’ll get it there!
@@JAYREAD oh absolutely! I know what it was like trying to sort mine out as a new owner at the time. BTW, forget what I said about the slave cylinder as you have an automatic. Mine is a manual and the slave cylinder is the hydraulics that control the clutch when you push the pedal in. I'm here to help any time:) I love to see you doing these videos as the 928 is such an under appreciated car!
They actually make a new part that replaces the old grease-filled tensioner with an Audi one that does not need adjustment, called the PK tensioner, after a Rennlist member and owner, PorKen who spent years developing it on his own with input from the community. Also there's a "racing" belt you can get that not quite doubles the life from 3 years to a little over 5, IIRC.
Yes, that’s what I fitted in the end.
@@devinflint5554 nice, I’ll have to check into that!
With 928s you have to be careful of overheating, they have problems with cooling system. I had a 928 s4 and it blow the engine because it blow a hose and lost all the coolant very fast. But they are beautiful cars and great to drive. They sound amazing and are very comfortable.
Another important item to check - the flex plate. Make sure it is not under too much pressure from the drive shaft and if it is have it adjusted.
Thanks Jack! Keep the advice coming! I really need it!
@@JAYREAD I only know this stuff because it's what *I* paid my mechanic to do after he told me I needed it. I bought a 928 a couple of years ago and it really is a nice car once brought back up to at least a decent driver.
Yes. I just did this again on my car. It’s good to replace the bolt when you release the tension (every one to two years)
That's a big one, a potential engine block destroyer if not checked. They do make special clamps for the drive line which will help avoid the problem now. I just don't remember who makes them now, but the Rennlist boys will know.
Had the specialist recommend this when doing the timing belt.
Jay, I admire your bravery. For us viewers it results in watching interesting videos👍👍👍
Hope so!
Not a Huge Mistake or a piece of shite 😂A Challenge for Sure ! A great project I think ! Matt seems like he’s your man ! Looking forward to seeing further vids on the progress ! Good Luck Jay 🙏🏻👍❤️
Cheers Lee!
Jay, no advice but I sure appreciate your content and humor! Living vicariously through you! Favorite channel currently in youtube!
Wow! That’s VERY generous of you, Matthew! I’ll keep doing it then!
Be happy they didn't mess with the Euro headlights. Depending when the ROW cars were imported (and by whom), they were often replaced with the then-DOT required 7-inch lights with the chrome trim ring. The H4's can go for a steep price, sometimes over $1000 for the set!
Nice! Didn’t know that!
Man I was so nervous watching him go through it! You are definitely braver than I am! I really like the color !! Going to look great when you detail it!
You’re telling me! It was a nervy experience! We’ll get it there!
I have a 90 s4, and with all those issues I don’t think I would have driven it home. Good luck on the journey!
It’s now safely in the shop! Paint first and then mechanicals! Can’t wait to get it back to show everyone!
Hi Jay, there is ofcourse postponed maintenance to do but the bonnet struts (that fail on every tired 928) do function perfectly on yours 😀 Will be impatient waiting for the next episode
Thanks mate! They work OK-ish! I’m working on the next one right now. Most likely published on Saturday!
Will be fun to see the progress. Enjoy!
Cheers!
Well...yesterday I got some teeth pulled which kinda feels like going to the mechanic! Good luck Jay!
I think I’ll actually feel the work after this though! It can run so much better after a bit of work.
So excited you got the 928!
Me too!
You are a brave man! I owned an '85 928S for 8 years and it was an awesome car, but I had to learn a lot, from topend refresh to rebuilding the instrument pod, and replacing the front fender after a deer strike. So, lmk if you need some help but you are for a fun, if expensive ride my friend! PS, I am a fellow brit in the US. 4th Porsche now is an '02 Boxster and my favorite one yet!
Ha! Cheers Julian! Are you on the East Coast? I went the other way: Boxster to 928! Yes, it’ll be a ride but I couldn’t go to my maker without having one. It had to be done! Hehe!
Just discovered your channel and only in for the second episode on the 928, but I love it!
Also, your mechanic seems to be a competent and decent guy. Good find 🙂
I'm looking to find me 928, too. I love it since my childhood-cars-are-a,azing-days!
Keep on + BIG THANK YOU!
Hey thanks a lot! I’m really happy that you like it! More to come!
Enjoying your new content with this car 👏
Thank you!
a lot of people make judgment on these cars without never owning one. My 88 S4 is in great condition but paid morw for it. You should by one without having to many issues. Maintenance can be done by owner if having a great set of factory manuals. A cheaper alternative is a 944 turbo and 5 speed. good luck
Totalmente de acuerdo, la gente los juzga sin conocerlos, los juzgan mal, por que fueron coches que cayeron en manos de gente inexperta, causando problemas de todo tipo en el coche, de ahi la mala fama generada
So looking forward to this one. And the upcoming sarcasm peppered throughout the video 😂
Lol!
928s are wonderful, marvelously engineered super cars, that unfortunately too often fell in the wrong hands. People who didn't have the means to maintain them as required. I have an 87 S4 ( manual) purchased 32 years ago, and each time I take it for a spin it puts a grin on my (old) face.
Exactly! I think mine is in the category of deferred maintenance actually but I WILL get it there!
I've just bought an '88 928 S4, and I'm gobsmacked at the attention it attracts.
Set big budget - age decay is the biggest 928 issue - hidden gems are in tank fuel filter the crumbles, silly ones odometer cog will crumble, oil sump gasket is big job but good luck it will give you plenty of content 1985 s2 manual owner myself. Oh check the state of the wiring previous owners have a habit of messing that up big time ...... 👍😀
Cheers!
That drone in the interior would drive me nuts bro! it sounds like bad wheel bearings, at least when its happened to me with other cars..
Think it’s the exhaust!
You should give Matt a hyperlink shout out. :-)
Not too much to lose. Totally fun project.
Yee hah!
That doesn’t seem bad! No such thing as a cheap Porsche, though 😅 I really like it.
Let’s hope so, Bobby!
Aside from fluids, you have to change the waterpump, the belt etc. to be on the safe side!
Yessir! On it!
The Kaiser needs some love! Let's GO!!
YEEE HAAAH!
Actually you can check the timing belt by removing the air intake tube and look inside the hole over the belt
Thanks!
The timing belt tensioner is not tensioned by oil pressure as the mechanic says. It uses bi-metallic washers that flatten when they get hot to reduce tension to compensate for thermal expansion. They are filled with engine oil to help transfer the heat to those washers.
You should consider installing a porkensioner in place of the factory unit as its a much better piece of kit.
Also when doing the timing belt you also should replace the oil pump seals and inside the dual distributor there is a small belt that needs to be replaced at the same time.
Replace all the fuel lines if original.
Also this car is a MAF car with a platinum wire. Due to this you need to ditch the K&N air filter and fut a factory Mahle air filter in. The oil from the K&N coats the platinum wire and causes it to fail prematurely.
Also check the wires in the front of engine harness to ensure none of the wires are failing. If it is a new harness is available from 928srus.com
On the radiator replace with a new CSF unit.
Thanks Colin! Really great post! Is the Porken Tensioner reliable? I’m not sure about putting untested stuff in the car?
@@JAYREAD I've been using the porkensioner since the very first batch. The brackets that are out now vs the first ones are very robust. I have yet to have a single failure.
Each time the timing belt is done the tensioner, lever, and roller should be replaced with new hardware each time.
Ciao Jay,
I am pretty sure you have noticed it… the car is missing its aerodynamics protection under the engine… that part is pretty useful when it comes to evacuate heat from the engine bay and to address fresh air to the alternator and to the other devices
Ciao Alessandro! Yes, I need to order one of those! Thanks very much for the help!
At least you've got @fcpeuro to get all your parts from in one hit. Looking at this from the UK it amazes me that there isn't an annual inspection on vehicles in USA that would've picked up a lot of these problems up.
I love FCP Euro! I know! An MoT would have picked up all of this!
Don't give up on the car!
No plans to do that….yet!
Timing belt on your 16V is not catastrophic if it fails. Clearance on valves is ok. 32V = paperweight.
There’s lots of debate on that. Think I’ll proceed carefully!
I think that engine lookes like a 16v ”S2” euro spec. That should be an interference engine…
Following as my next project will be a 928, I’ve waited long enough!
A fellow brave soul! That’s how I felt: I’ve waited long enough and now I own one. Feels so good!
If auto check the flex plate for clamp migration, could leed to to thrust bearing failure
Thank you! Keep the advice coming! I need it!
Cool car. Cool video.
I enjoy restoring older cars. With cars of these ages, it's bedt to tear down as much of the car as possible and replace.
Things like the brakes and suspension should be, at a minimum, changed. I ways replace the fuel pump and fuel filter, too.
I actually prefer when my project cars need new tires and brakes. I love starting out with both new. The car drives so much better.
Thanks Andy! I agree! Actually my tires were replaced this afternoon and I have brake parts coming soon. Stay tuned! More to come!
@@JAYREAD Very cool. I just subscribed!
@@andydhillon1977 Thank you and WELCOME!
@@JAYREAD Thanks.
I just looked at your other videos. I have a 996.2 911 and help my friend with his 986.2 Boxster S.
I bought my 996.2 with a blown engine. I'm saving for a 3.8L proper engine rebuild. Nickies cylinder sleeves.
Considering a 928 project car, too.
I plan to make videos on the rebuild of my 996.
@@andydhillon1977 Nice, Andy!
To be honest - it looks fairly typical for a used Porsche. My Boxster was somewhat similar. The big difference with the 928 is the serviceability. There is a lot of "you need to remove this to get to that" which may other cars don't have.
Spot on! I agree!
Ooohhh, a twin dizzy! 🔥🇩🇪🔥
Yes! Pretty cool eh?
@@JAYREAD Very! I need to look and see if you have uploaded any more videos about it. I picked up a '84 Euro 5-sp last spring. Runs and drives, but needs a lot of work (probably even more than yours). I haven't had time to get much done on it yet.
Could you bring them mechanic round to inspect 4 cars and choose the best? That would be handy
Wouldn’t it?!
Pretty standard for a lot of 928 deferred maintenance. Breaks my heart seeing the scrapes on the hood from the shipper though 😢 are they going to cover it?
Yes, I think so. Looking positive but, boy, what a minefield transporting a car is. That’s worth a video all by itself. It’ll look nice once it’s done.
@@JAYREAD good to hear! I live in Vegas and usually only get cars shipped from west coast and even short trips like that are nerve wracking
@@enjoyradiosilence I’ve really been through it behind the scenes, I’ll tell you! It’s not been easy but I think they’re going to pay now. Ugh!
The timing chain disaster is for the next gen.
Jay: "Looks pretty clean to me, some fluids maybe....".... Expert: *smiling respectfully*... Yeeeeeah... *begins loooong list of initial observations as Jay's wallet begins to steam...* Hahahaha. I KNEW we were related somehow... 😛
Bahahahahaha! I need to be the Auto Amateur really. Clueless!
The drip is your power steering hoses. Both of them. The one to the rack is leaking at the rear. The timing belt can be seen by removing either side intake snorkels and looking down in the breather hole. Very simple. The pan gasket might stop leaking if you tighten the bolts. They get really loose. Timing belt is easy to replace but the S2 Euro engine is not necessarily interference. Nor is any 16v 928. Plenty of owners have smoked timing belts without issue. Some were not so lucky though. It comes down to carbon buildup more than anything. Buy a new steering rack from 928sRus.
THANK YOU! Great post! Keep the advice coming! Need it badly!
The aluminum hood is going to be extremely hard to fix properly. You'll probably want a new hood. I hope you sue that shipping company because that hood is very pricey. You learn to park your 928 away from other cars as the doors and fenders are aluminum as well. The 928 was pretty exotic for it's time and was Porsches top of the line production model. The Boxster by comparison is a modern 914/ poor man's Porsche.
Nothing too crazy for a 40 year old car. I think you just need to lower expectations and enjoy it. Steering rack looks like the biggest issue. Tie rods are easy and will make a noticeable difference. Good luck!
Cheers Phil! I see bills ahead!
Any thing is fixable, it just takes time and money. Nick Murphy should take his own advice, his history is filled with throwing money at Porsches. Your fortune to have a honest tech, who knows Porsches. Good luck!
Owning a Porsche 928 is definitely not a poor man's Porsche!
That’s for sure!
Buy the all aluminum CSF radiator
Oooh thanks! Where do I get that from?
This is the easiest engine to work on if you know what are you doing. Everything is easy to work on this car and so much fun. But it does cost 💲 to sort it out completely.
It’s easy to understand but things are hard to get to without removing other things and some things (like the ATF reservoir) are in awkward places!
If you have a lift, it practically takes just few minutes to remove the ATF reservoir.
Car lift is a must to work on the 928 it makes life so much easier.
I’d send it to renegade hybrids for an LS conversion
See that would be a shame, don’t you think? It’s be a LOT faster though!
@@JAYREAD I’m not a purist so it makes good sense to me. Check out the videos on UA-cam. I’ve been thinking about doing it.
@@jl8628 It makes total logical sense actually. It might affect your car’s value though but who cares? Do it and enjoy it in good health!
Does Matt have any other experience with Japanese models?
Japanese models, Bhinesh? What’s the matter with you? ;-)
@@JAYREAD I am asking because Burt Reynolds is an expert on the matter.
Let me explain: in one movie scene (trying to remember the movie) BR is sitting at an airport bar with a friend when a pretty Japanese stewardess walks by. His friend asks him “if it’s true what they say about oriental women”. BR then gestures with a horizontal palm and nods. I know it’s friggin crude 70s non-PC humor but…
This is non interference engine, so if the timing belt broke your engine is not toast.
Isn’t there some debate about that though? Not sure if they are all non interference (the 16v engines, I mean).
Well, I owned my first 928 S 32 years ago it was a 1984 and the I sold and bought couple more in the 1990’s
So I had quite a few of 928S 16 valves. Timing belt broke on me while I was driving, all I did just put another one and drove like a champ. But the 928S4 is an interference engine that one you must change the timing belt accordingly time wise and mileage wise. Currently I own both a 1984 928S and a 1989 928S4 and they are both absolutely fun to drive.
@@JAYREAD This is a Euro 4.7 310hp with higher compression, different ignition, different fuel injection system, and other differences from the U.S. engine. I wouldn't count on it being non-interference without talking to a 928 expert!
Always some work on an old car Jay. Unfortunately. That's why we like them.
And it’s half the fun too!
Can’t wait to hear how much this cost you.
Stay watching, my friend. My ‘All The Costs’ video will tell you!
while you are in there.
Hahaha! There’s $$$ to be lost there!
will cost you a small fortune, and more than the ims stuff on the 996. but I would reckon that this work which needs to be done here is way cheaper than working on an old air cooled 911. go ahead with it. don't you want to learn wrenching by yourself?
If the fuel lines are original they need to be replaced.
Thanks!
Welp Jay, it looks like you got your work cut out for you.......yikes!
Bring it on, Dave! 😁
Going where few men go! Open your wallet now then when you sell you get crickets
Buy high, sell low, right?!
@@JAYREAD lol that’s what I do except you missed the middle step.
Step 1: Buy high
Step 2: PUT TONs of $$ into it
Step 3: sell low
@@MW-uy3np Ah yes! Thats right. Otherwise, where’s the fun?
Just buy a used v8 from usa and done with it..more reliable more power
Nothing wrong with the Porsche engine. The gearbox, however….