Ouch! What's wrong with my cheap Porsche 928.
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2023
- Reality check. Time to get the credit card ready. Sean and Bruce formulate a plan to fix my 928. Let's focus on the big issues first. There are some surprises here - good and bad - so I better get the credit card ready. The youngest 928 is approaching 30 years old, and this one is almost 40, so every 928 owner should be aware of all these issues.
If you're in the Sydney region the father and son team at Buchanan Automotive have a combined 60+ years of expertise so there's no better place to start the process. But they don't do things by halves, so if you're looking for a cheap and cheerful workaround, maybe save yourself the expense and go somewhere else.
Enjoy the video! - Авто та транспорт
Bruce asked this further explanation be added, in case viewers have questions:
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The 928 /S from 1978 to 1983 ( inclusive ) only had the auto oil heat exchanger in one radiator side tank ( nothing else ) & these proved wanting in regards to auto oil overheating / discolouring daily quickly when used aggressively in city / traffic conditions ( hot weather ) when used on a daily basis in these conditions 40 years ago , the fitment of a decent size stand alone auto trans oil cooler on these cars overcame that issue ( decades ago ) & as a byproduct with the radiator heat exchanger bypassed , these cars never suffered a very expensive intermix issue later.
The 928S / S3 / S4 / GTS 1984 onwards also have the in the rad heat exchanger , but also have a factory fitted “extra" ( now free standing ) auto trans oil cooler mounted in the air flow in front of the A/C condenser ( 84-86 ) and above the A/C condemner 87 onwards , these 928 models are cheaper to bypass the radiator heat exchanger as they already have a free standing oil cooler , just needs new longer hoses and TIG welding shut the hydraulic fittings on the radiator tank & from that point onwards they can NOT suffer intermix with coolant in the auto trans = an avoidable expensive disaster
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General comments on cooling in cars of that era
(1) It was very very common for other cars with automatic transmissions last century , be it Holden / Ford / Toyota / Volvo / Mercedes / Nissan etc etc etc that had the same ( cheap to manufacture ) heat exchanger within one of the radiator tanks , massive less expensive than installing a stand alone oil cooler & of course the cheaper the radiator the more likely for the said radiator to suffer a ( out of the blue ) auto trans to coolant intermix event & the transmission was badly damaged or destroyed ( depends if the parts are available to fix at the time ) , so as we can see the auto trans oil / coolant intermix was an issue of lots of car makers , but was normally happing well after new car warranty had expired , so its not a 928 thing only at all , it was industry wide.
(2 ) In the late 1960’s and the 1970’s in Australia , if you were towing a caravan( full of stuff and way too heavy ) plus all the family and more stuff ( way way too heavy ) in the HOT summer holidays for hours on end , there were no 2.5 tonne Toyota Landcruiser V8’s or Nissan V8’s , there were the HQ Holden Premier 308 or 350 V8’s or the Ford Falcon or Fairmont or LTD 302 or 351 V8’s doing the towing , and this is where the the invention of a stand alone auto trans oil cooler was desperately needed ( not fitted by the car maker ) this was mostly an important aftermarket Towing essential , thats because the said Holden or Ford or Valiant V8’s auto transmissions were getting so HOT towing they boiled their auto oil and usually wrecked the auto transmission in the process , thats because the auto oil was being directed into one radiator tank with the stupid heat exchanger ( no stand alone oil cooler ) , the only problem was the radiator was on the verge of boiling the whole time and the auto oil could not be cooled by this set up , so hence the bypass of the heat exchanger and the fitment of the aftermarket ( large/ suitable for towing ) stand alone auto oil cooler solved the problem.
If the repairs are less than 9k I'd be stunned.
Well it should make for an interesting reveal video. sigh...
Having someone else do the work, in a few years time $20k in repairs easily
You are very lucky to find these guys with the knowledge and passion to keep such special cars alive and well. I’m sure plenty have died or been recycled due to basic maintenance issues being missed
You're right. It's such a shame
First thing wrong with your cheap 928 is that there is no cheap 928. If you buy it cheap, it needs LOTS of repairs and deferred maintenance done.
That's exactly what we long term 928 owners (this is my third) tell anyone who asks. You can either let someone else do the work first and you pay a lot, or you can buy what you think is a cheapie and almost certainly have to spend as much again. Yes I am expecting big bills.
No doubt.
I'm watching this from Italy as my own recently purchased '84 928 is at the mechanic's for a first thorough inspection. He's also a reputable independent vintage Porsche specialist, so I am trembling at the though of what he could notice in a car that looked ok at first sight and came with a reasonable folder documenting past maintenance. You gotta love these independent workshops and hope they'll still be around for years to come, as a vehicle as different and complicated as the 928 truly deserves loving hands (and a knowledgeable, passionate mind behind them). Looking forward to more update videos on your Champy!
Wow, always loved the 928 but was always wary about the maintenance costs of these things. Scary amount of money to keep on the road performing its best.
But imagine if all those things that needed doing had been done progressively over 20 years. Then it probably wouldn't seem like a high maintenance car. I'm hoping that, once done, it will be safe and reliable. As my previous 928s were *most* of the time.
I’m thinking you’re far better off paying a bit more upfront for a well maintained example of the car then buying what looks like a cheap good deal
Expensive vehicles require expensive maintenance parts and repairs by knowledgeable mechanics.
If those costs scare you there are a lot of lower-cost alternatives.
I had a 86.5 black on black for years. It also had the H8 lamps. I wish I never sold it.
Bruce & Sean have been looking after my 84 928s for years. These guys are the best in the business. They know everything about 928’s.
Hello from California 🤙 Love the series, I can't wait for the next episode 👍
Yes, high time I got off my bum and did some more. Lots been happening. Sorry. Been busy!
I love learning stuff like this.
Bruce and Sean are absolutely no BS mechanics, what a real pleasure to see. Look to be top notch blokes!
Great watching and following the story, Bruce is the man!
I will be keen to see your re-routed trans line. My original radiator let let go on the engine side only luckily. Oil in water had me freaked out with all sorts of horrific thoughts. In the end I got lucky and just gave it a good flush out and all was well again. I borrowed a manual radiator for a while and routed the trans lines through the front trans cooler only but it was a crude setup until I got a new radiator. I now have a new all aluminum radiator in it with the trans lines going back through the radiator. After seeing this I may delete it again. It will be good to see the correct way to do it.
Lot's of useful information, wish we had people like Bruce and Sean down here in Tassie.
If I need major work then it's a boat trip over to Melbourne to see one of the resident experts.
BTW I fitted a fire extinguisher to mine a couple of weeks ago, just to be on the safe side.😀
Would love to hang around some time at Buchanon garage and chat with Sr and Jr about landsharks.😋😎😀
Be careful. The entrance to their garage is a time-travel portal. You'll spend what seems like an hour there and when you get home you'll have a beard and the your wife will have filed a missing persons report. (Note to self : make a video sketch about this)
@@inCARnationAustralia 😄thanks for warning, but I would take the risk with pleasure
"What's wrong with my cheap 928?" And there you have it, the entirety of what's wrong.
Thank you for making this video, it was really informative! 👍 Looking to buy one and don't want to ruin it...
Glad it was helpful!
What's wrong with your Porsche 928 is that it's a Porsche 928. We wouldn't accept these for trade at my Porsche dealer!
What did you like to trade at your Porsche dealer?
@@inCARnationAustralia Our store is an Audi/ Porsche dealer, so anything within VAG. We avoid domestics with the exception of Mustangs, Challengers, Camaros, etc. If it's clean and goes fast, we'll keep it. Anything else was dependent on what the local auto auction could guarantee, because that's where we'd send it in the morning. We could accept a 928, but only if the owner would accept the auction quote; which was often rather insulting, so it was more prudent/ polite to just decline. There's just no way could take on a 92X and expect to come out profitable.
@@MisterMonsieur Thanks for detailed reply. Interesting.
The radiator trans cooler ruptured in my '87 S4. I'm in Perth and finding a transmission shop that would touch it was difficult. The rebuild took 4 months, me sourcing many small parts not coming with the standard trans kit and $8000 to complete, very expensive. I also had a custom copper radiator made with both heat exchangers deleted. The trans now only runs through the heat exchanger on top of the radiator and I installed an engine oil cooler in front of the AC condenser, just done my 2nd Perth summer and everything is sweet temperature wise and I never have to worry about oil / water mixing from the radiator ever again.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Peter. I'm guessing the transmission was damaged due to mixing of coolant and oil. When that happens I gather the demise only takes a short drive - less than an hour. But glad that you have a well sorted car now for the Perth heat. You can never sell it now - too valuable!
@@inCARnationAustralia The "strawberry milkshake" red fluid / water mix was left for 4 months while I worked out how to proceed, the transmission still functioned but really clunked hard when put in gear (not that I drove it). The radiator water was de-oxygenated and had corrosion inhibitor and combined with the red trans fluid not one spot of rust developed on the internals. The friction material on the bands was largely in tact but a few spots of swelling and debonding was evident at some edges. The bands were the only parts damaged, but a full "Mercedes" kit was installed, replaced pretty much all the plastic parts and the some of the bearings. Considering how little was replaced it was way too expensive. If I could do it over I would have bought a second hand unit and had that refurbished and just swapped out.
Re the rear hatch mechanism , the drivers side of the casting is cast to thin hence why they crack and then snap off.
The "plastic" insert in the socket can be bought aftermarket when it disintegrates, they are ok . I'm looking at casting my own in the future though . The "plastic" insert in the socket can be bought aftermarket when it disintegrates, they are ok . I'm looking at casting my own in the future though .
I am in if you cast something. I would say make a few as they will sell. Mine is cracked but functional. Its silly as with a new insert it unlocks electronically (or did until the actuator bushings disintegrated). But wont unlock with the key with the insert. With old insert it unlocks with the key. I have pushed pulled and adjusted but cant find a happy medium.
Another great episode, so much info. But it seems buying a high mileage 928 at auction is not for someone with a heart condition or financially disadvantaged, will it make financial sense though ? Will the car be worth what you paid for it plus the work?
Just know that if you buy and run a 928, you’ll be underwater. No way around it. Buy/enjoy. I’m not sure why Porsche owners are always worried about values. It will not make financial sense. Period.
Thanks TC, I guess that depends on how much it costs and how far I decide to take the refurb. If I were to do a cosmetic tidy up as well - with fresh paint and re-trim it probably wouldn't make sense, as at the end of the day the car will still have 300,000+km. But to get a reliable car with working A/C, that I intend to keep for quite some time, it may pay off in the long term. Probably break even if nothing major fails. With the rapid uptake of EVs I suspect the value of used ICE boring vehicles will fall rapidly in coming years, but I do expect the value of well maintained classics to continue to rise - even if not in concourse condition. I think the classic/historic market has plateaued a bit at the moment, but I think it will increase again in years to come for cars like these - as long as they are well maintained.
@@928pcar that kind of depends on what you consider underwater. I drove mine daily for 16 years and was still costing much less than buying and maintaining/depreciation on other cars. My only regret is that I sold it too early as they rocketed up just after I sold mine.
Stu got a bargain imo. He took a risk and it’s panned out.
@@markedwards4879 we’re talking about buying one now, not 16-20 years ago. A lot happens to cars in 20 years in terms of wear
@@markedwards4879 my ‘85 was amazing in 2004! Not a single problem really. That car today, almost 20 years on has a multitude of new problems adding up as things wear out from 40 years of use
What’s the proper steering wheel for a ‘79
Mine is rectangular but others are circular
I don't think rectangular or oval was an option on any 928. The orginal wheel is circular, with a centre plain circle about 6" in diameter, and 3 flat square-shouldered pads on the 3 spokes. Simple but pleasant.
@@inCARnationAustralia that’s the one I called circular so the rectangular pad that says Porsche isn’t original to 928 ‘79!?
@@BENTAYGA2 Oh I see what you mean. 2 horizontal bars with a rectangular pad in the middle. I think that wheel was introduced in 1980, along with the "S" variant. I don't think it was on '78 and '79 cars.
I'm finding this 928 story interesting, but UA-cam is now feeding me multiple 928 videos.
buy these parts on-line from UK and USA ....save your self $$$$ and give to the Koya Garage to install.
All of the above mentioned - nothing to expensive. ADVISE change the high pressure wise and earth switch as my 928 caught fire in my driveway.
But Stu, “Incarnation” is a religious channel! All hail the mighty 928!
Oh yeah. We're a kind of cult aren't we? I hope not. I think of us as just innocent as-yet-unbesmirched altar boys of the Order of Perpetual Indulgence. I'm sure you noticed my little religious references throughout the video - the resurrection grab, Bruce's "biblical", etc. Can you guess the recent event I was celebrating? Don't answer that.
I don't get it, I came from another 928 fanboy channel .....
OMG I'm horrified by the massive design flaws and the fire danger I am laughing... it is funny, so sorry.
I guess that's part of the reason why - people can dump loads of dollars in them... proving their undying love.
I don't like to think of myself as a 928 fanboy. (Stu). Mark's not really a fan at all as they're not really a sports car. They're a GT car, not well suited to the track. I appreciate them but as you say, they have plenty of design flaws. Mainly through over-engineering. Some parts are indestructible if serviced properly - like the quality of the auto gearbox and engine (if it ALWAYS had the right fluids and belt changes at regular intervals), but on a car that's 40 years old, highly likely that it hasn't. At some point these cars were really cheap so people bought them as "cheap supercars" but didn't service them properly. They are hopelessly over-complicated in so many ways - the stupid vacuum based headlight adjusters, the sunroof mechanism, and if you ever look underneath the timber plywood fuseboard, it's like the inside of an Apollo Capsule. The heat-exchanger radiators that seemed so clever are now a burden as the aluminium ages, allowing pinprick holes between oil and water. Purely age, but diabolical consequences. The leather dashes don't like sunlight, the A/C system is antiquated, by now all the dash globes will be faded or blown - all the electrical contacts, fuses and relays will have corrosion and be causing intermittent dramas - the stupid, frail and unnecessary fuel pre-pump. All $$$ items to fix. But you have to look at them in the context of cars of the day. Late 1970s design. At the time, people gushed about the tech but at 40 to 50 years of age, if they haven't been regularly maintained, they will cost a bomb to put right. So, not really a fanboy. A 928 realist. But there is a saving grace - when they're working properly and you're on some sweeping twisty road - they are magnificent and rewarding cars to drive. Bruce and Sean make a living from keeping these cars going though, so as much as they might love them, they also love them for the income they generate. Which is not going to slow down until they switch off the petrol bowsers.
@@inCARnationAustralia Thanks for the reply. I had a Z28 Camaro when a bunch of us were trading and running through cars a while back and the striking thing about it was the steering. I'd call it very quick and connected. Never had or drove another vehicle like that.
not really. they are old and as they devalued to a point where "poor'' people bought them, they didn't get serviced properly- if at all. While complex a simple proper maintenance program is easily done. Correct fluids, correct servicing, timed replacement of 30 year old components is not a design flaw. You won't find another 30-40 plus year old GT that goes as well as these do. The competition to the 928 have all rotted away and most are no where near as well built - including the 911
Jeez I can't even see my last comment re the Veyron and it uses 2off 928 air filters
I didn't see it either
@@inCARnationAustralia UA-cam didn't like it I think.
Anyways Veyron uses 928 air filters btw
No such thing as a cheap Porsche.....those usually end up being the most expensive!!.....ask me how I know.😁😁
this thing is giving me anxiety just looking at it. had to watch the video breathing through a paper sandwich bag.
And you don't even own it! I did the same thing when presented when paying the first invoice. Breathe Stu breathe...
@@inCARnationAustralia haha in all honestly i would love to work on/own a 928. cheers!
Maybe shorter on the video length. Guaranteed the rubber lines from fuel rail to injectors are splitting and about to spray fuel on your engine bay. If they are original you are driving a ticking time bomb
It's hard to know what to leave out. Bruce can really talk and he's so entertaining. You should have seen how much I shot in the first place. Re: Injectors. Yes, new short lines from rail to the new VDO injectors.
@@inCARnationAustralia good man! Didn’t mean to be rude I love the content
@@928pcar All good buddy. Thanks!
@@inCARnationAustralia length is fine if your interested
go to other mechanics or do the work yourself,.. laughing mechanics that point out money they can make seem self serving to me. fear-mongering types make owning any car a bummer.
In 2021 I bought a mint condition '89 GT with 16 thousand miles on it. Now has 22 thousand. I would never buy a fixer upper 928.
Glad to see you're starting to put some miles on yours. But mint condition GTs are getting a bit hard to find now down here. Luckily some people get a deal of satisfaction from fixing up neglected or non-mint 928s.
@@inCARnationAustralia No doubt. MIne had one owner and it's like he waited 30 years for me to show up to buy it.