I'll go ahead and say it. First season is okay, and after that it's downhill. Each and every season. I'M SORRY. IT'S THE TRUTH. ONE DAY EVERYONE WILL SEE. From the get go, the series was all about emulating things that were seen before and creating a false sense of nostalgia. It's obvious. There was little to no 100% creative decisions there.
Spoiler: Stranger Things was always a mediocre tv show and most of the time doesn’t really meaningfully differentiate itself from the pastiche of references it is based on.
First things first, Murray is a goddamn Treasure and I will fight you. Celestial Shinobi or not. Second I thought it was pretty obvious the russians were in Hawkins to exploit the tear 11 Made. I figured they ran across some readings when it happened, and through spies and research found out it was in Hawkins, so set up a lab.
@yunehversomi1458 Writer A: Well, we traumatized this character in season one... so now what? Writer B: Let's continue that, and make it his whole character. Writer A: You're a goddamn genius.
So did the show, since they barely speak or interact after Season 2, and always have plots with other parties. At least Jonathan and Will were in the same plot in Season 4.
I think the biggest failing of stranger things after season one was the loss of the subtle horror. The show stopped leaning into that, and it really changed the tone
@@YodaOnABender absolutely, on S1 you actually feel tense watching the govt listening in and tracking the main characters, it feels like the kids and even Hopper and Joyce are in actual danger going against something much bigger than themselves. By S3 the people infected by the MF melting into goopy flesh-slime plus the russians being involved made the show so incredibly tacky and no one from the main cast dying (no way 4 teens accidentally infiltrate a military russian base and make it out alive tf was that) made it feel like the stakes were at sub-zero. Will forever mourn the anthology that could've been :/
@@YodaOnABenderI think the scene where Chrissy gets killed is the best example of this. It, in my opinion, is way less scary than any scene in season 1. It’s just showing off the new budget
@@Jdudec367 nah, it’s cheap shock horror. Season 1 gave you that creepy and eerie feeling with the literal “monster in the woods” setting. All the new season has is the same run of the mill “oooh he breaks all your bones and your eyes roll back into your head oooh isn’t that scary?” It’s just not got the same effort anymore
The vibes of S1 Stranger Things are unbeatable. The Upside Down felt radioactive and dangerous, impossible to traverse, and terrifying. The more we learn about it, the less interested I am.
horror is so simple to get right and somehow the bigger the budget is the more likely they are to fuck it up. just dont show too much, its basically the only rule. and because mystery and uncertainty are so important to horror you dont even NEED a big budget, a lot of the best horror works are made with cheaply made props in an appropriately dark environment.
When you have a show where the writers are afraid of killing off any one of their main characters just to create "tension" they introduced entirely new characters and kill them off in the same season.
Precisely, the main characters are protected by plot armour, even when they should realistically be dead. Eddie's death felt like a waste, in that the writers didn't know how to prove his innocence.
Its worse than that guys. They have a lot of fake out deaths. Spoilers here on if you havent watched all S1 ended with Eleven sacrificing herself and revealed still be alive. S3 ended with Hopper sacrificing himself and being revealed to be alive later. S4 has s scene where Max is briefly killed, only to be revived moments later. I don't remember S2 too well, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a fake out death in that one as well. Feel free to mention a fake out death from S2 if I forgot one. I thought I only had to deal with this while watching One Piece. ( If you know what I am talking about, I share your pain ) and I dont want to deal with this in Stranger Things too.
I felt an unspeakable sense of betrayal at the way S3 turned hopper into a violent, brainless, emotionally bankrupt misogynist. I'll never forgive the writers for that.
It made no sense. Season 2 had such an amazing journey for El and Hopper. Then Season 3 threw all of that into the garbage. I couldn't see how anyone would root for him to get together with Joyce after that.
@@s.l.thecoffeeaddict1657 Haha, it felt bizarre that they'd have Hopper not understand the concept behind a "Heart to Heart" conversation, when he easily gave a few to Joyce, Mike and Eleven in the first two seasons. Just for the sake of a cheap joke.
Season 3 really missed the opportunity to explore Hopper’s trauma with his biological daughter. He could have been unable to engage emotionally with Eleven because she’s filling the place of his dead daughter, which is still a bloody gaping wound. His macho bravado could have been a coping mechanism, his angry outbursts a defense mechanism. Does Eleven even know about hopper’s daughter? Man I wish we got a scene of him telling her about his daughter, maybe going through a long hidden photo album together, Eleven comforting Hopper as he cries.
ikr??everyone just treats Joyce like some crazy delusional lady whenever she’s concerned at this point. It just feels like she’s treated more like a jokey trope than a human being, as well as much other characters in later seasons unfortunately
@@danieljones2936 in season 1, it was beautifully executed, Joyce had lost her child, it's natural that when she rambles about how her missing kid is communicating to her with christmas lights, that people just assume she has lost her marbles due to the loss of her kid. In season 3 in comparison, the supernatural is known to exist, and there is nothing that's currently stressing her out in her life. Her kids are safe, she is just living her normal life. On top of this, unlike the christmas lights, the magnets not working is instantly provable. I need significantly more than just suspension of disbelief, to buy that someone who is already aware of the supernatural, wouldn't take her seriously.
I’m sure the Duffer brothers never intended on that. A lot of things including the pandemic and the writers/actors strike occurred midway during production of the show. You can’t blame that on the series. Without any delays S2 came out 14 months after S1.
I remember the Duffers from S1 always had an outline for more seasons (I want to say 5, but I might misremember and it might have been 3 or 4). Now idk how much those changed bc of the time and the kids growing up. As well as them not wanting to kill any one of them off. I remember looking into this right away and way before it came the mass popular hit it was, back in the beginning months when it was just a cult hit. I know that's contradicting the video, I'd be heartbroken to know my memory is going.
The fact that Jonathan's "bad choice" to stay out when he was supposed to go home wasn't to hang out with friends or see a girl, but to *work more* just drives the pain home even more, at least me as a fellow overly-responsible eldest sibling. I feel like so many stories go for the "partying teenager" trope for moments like this, so the decision to have him make what is arguably a pretty responsible, adult choice is even sadder
I agree, Jonathan is shown to be extremely close with Will, which is why he blames himself for not being around to stop him from getting abducted. The scene where he's arranging coffins for Will's funeral is heartbreaking, as he's just a teenager, a child himself, but is being forced into the role of "Man of the House." I feel like they underutilsed Jonathan from Season 3 onwards, and didn't really know what to do with him.
@@trinaq absolutely. I felt a lot of kinship with him over a lot of shared experiences and I wish he'd be utilized better, because I think that's a compelling character
I know right? Different dark sci fi mysteries set in different time periods would have been so cool.. and the good thing about anthologies is that if one season isn’t very strong, you have the freedom to just start over instead of dragging things out like they’re doing now
@@MajorOctofuss Problem with anthologies is that they're basically different shows, so you have to get people invested all over again every season. After all for every successful show, there's many, many shows that just couldn't pull it off for one reason or another.
@Boltscrap agreed, that's why it's so difficult to pull it off and it's a double edged sword. Look at Black Mirror. It's a really cool series, it's basically an anthology, but you remember more the themes of the episodes than the characters. A thing like Stranger Things is very character driven, which makes pulling out an anthology quite difficult but very satisfying (if the writing level would stand at S1 throughout all of it).
Also, the first time we hear about Murray, it's implied he manipulated Barb's grieving parents into selling their house, and that's just... never brought up again
i mean it could have been a situation that went like "hey we heard about you can you maybe find our daughter?" "yes sure but you have to pay for my services" "ok sure everything for our daughter" later at home "damn what are we gonna do we dont have the money for that tho" "oh i know we should sell our house" "...perfect"
@@Iblamethebarrels when Nancy is having dinner with Barb’s parents she asks about the “For Sale” sign outside. The parents then say they sold their house to pay for Murray
YES! i love the "uh oh spooky supernatural creatures that happen to be intelligent and very scary" not "yeah btw the russians ARE evil andd so is the child experiment!"
@@sam-km7cbhellfire was written in to sell merch and to tie in eddie, also probably to make mike and dustin seem like the same people they were in S1, instead of character development (duffer brothers classic)
@@sam-km7cbTbh even though I feel like DND was just brought back to go with the "back to the basics" feeling as they tried to redeem themselves from season 3, I still feel it kinda makes sense that the boys started playing DND again considering that during the summer of s3 they didn't want to play because they were too focused with their girlfriends (mostly Lucas and Mike bc Dustin was constantly with Steve already). With Eleven moving away and Max breaking up with Lucas, doesn't it kinda make sense that they wouldn't have anything holding them back from playing?🤔
Turning Hopper into a possessive, dismissive, violent prick who literally threatens children, whilst also trying to act like he and Joyce are perfect for each other is especially gross when you remember that Lonnie was pretty heavily implied to be abusive to both Joyce and her children. ETA: OH and the fact that she lost her partner, a man who she seemed to be actually in love with, only a few months before Season 3, and Hopper knows this because he was LITERALLY THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED, and he still keeps trying to pressure her into a relationship. "wHy dO yOU kEEp pUshiNG mE aWAy JOYCE?" "UH, idk, maybe because I watched my partner get torn apart by monsters less than a year ago?"
Hopper hating on Mike and trolling him kinda maliciously but harmlessly would've been peak comedy (because I hate Mike too, and I absolutely despise his relationship with Eleven, it feels exploitative and like a hostage situation, and paired with how sexualized this child actress was I just don't want to see her depicted in a romantic context until she hits her 30s), but they just had to go way too far and make it weird and uncomfortable. I loved Hopper in seasons 1&2, I can't stand him afterwards. I didn't even feel sorry for him when he was in the Russian prison, he stopped seeming like an actual human to me and became very overtly a character on a show, and a poorly written one too.
@Mia199603 Yea, exactly. Him and Mike having this sort of "love, hate" relationship, where Hopper likes that El has someone who cares about her, but is also naturally protective over his daughter (and doesn't believe she's ready for a relationship), could've been funny, and would've been way more realistic and true to his original character. Also, I wholeheartedly agree about El's relationship with Mike, it's very uncomfortable. In S1 and 2, it felt natural and sweet because they were both still literal children (like no older than 12) who acted as such, but by S3, Mike is a teenage boy with the mind of a teenage boy, whereas El is a teenage girl with the mind of a 4 year old. Idk why the writers couldn't have just had them be very good friends (or even a moment with Mike where he questions El's ability to handle a mature relationship). Tbh, hot take, but I don't think any of the relationships, or even ships, in the show are very good (and I say this as a fan).
@@Jeff-qk7jjglad someone said it, in season 1 Jonathan and Nancy were kind of like opposites, not knowing what each other were like but getting to know one another because of The Upside Down. It was sweet, and even though they weren’t dating yet it was clear they cared about each other. Season 2 reaffirmed that (Steve and his own arc) Season 3 was um. Interesting. Nancy and Jon were clearly going through stuff and honestly they should’ve just broken up because it was clear the stresses of the situations they were in was taking a toll on both of them. (My opinion is that they should stay friends the rest of the series.) Steve doing his own thing, and that’s cool, and I genuinely don’t rlly think that Steve actually liked Robin, I think he thought he did like her because he’s never formed a bond/connection with a girl before that wasn’t romantic. Or at least presented that way in his mind.
Season 4 made me actually annoyed, because the stupid love triangle came back. Seriously do the writers think that we only like romance drama around them? Because I like Nancy because she’s badass, and a whole lot of reasons. I like Steve because of the various arcs he’s had and his growth. I like Jonathan because his relationship with his family (despite not being shown that close to them since season 1 and 2..) and his perspective on things. Why can’t they just let theses characters exist without useless romance plots that don’t do anything for the story other than to create fan reactions?
@Cainen_ I fully agree. The problem with most of the relationships on Stranger Things is that they end up feeling unnecessary and forced. Aside from maybe S4 Max and Lucas, Joyce and Bob, and Dustin and Suzy (which is fine because it's such a minor part of the show), the relationships just feel like they get in the way because of how unnatural they are. Like, after S2, why are Mike and El together? They don't have any chemistry or share any common interests (except for being in the same friend group), and their relationship has that "yikes" element because of how immature she is. S3 Joyce and Hopper is an actually unbearable pairing because of what a shit Hopper becomes. I guess they're fine in S4, but it's so hard to overlook his reprehensible behaviour in the previous season. I love Max and Lucas in S4, but in S3, their relationship feels like it's just there for the sake of it (mainly because both of them felt pretty unimportant in that season aside from the Billy stuff). And of course, there's the stuff you said about Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve, which feels especially unfortunate because it feels really regressive. Nancy and Steve broke up because they were not right for each other, and it seems like now the same is going to happen to Jonathan and Nancy - what's wrong with Nancy breaking up with Jonathan and then staying single? Why do we need to do this whole dance with Steve, AGAIN? Who asked for this? (EDIT: I accidentally typed "Max and El" instead of "Mike and El" - I meant Mike and El's relationship is weird and forced 😂)
S1: Nothing ever happens in Hawkins. S4: Actually, 25 years ago, a man killed his whole family, blamed it on the devil and was sent to the local mental asylum. Let's go to his house we never mentioned before!
That was an attempt from the writers to trying to outsmart the audience and it failed miserably. Also it was never explained how Papa managed to survive after being brutally attacked by the demogorgon, like it frustrated me so much, HOW ?! The fourth season felt like I was watching episodes of Riverdale
The inability to kill off main characters, but introduce new ones to kill them in the same season, really dampens the fear and immersion going into season 5, it feels there is no threat and every main character is walking away unharmed.
Tbh a character being permanently disabled is far more terrifying & serious a consequence as death as well, but yeah introducing brand new characters just to kill them off so you don't have to risk killing one of the main cast and making some ppl upset is lame & predictable.
@@prizethought I get u w Max, they did do her storyline amazingly, where I really was over it was w Eddie. I didn't see the purpose apart from Dustins character arc, I just didn't think it was enough of a great plot to only affect one character going into season 5. As well as Hop, his fake death was to introduce the russians, but it felt odd. The storyline was alright, but it definitely didn't need to go on the whole of season 4 imo. It's not that I want mains to die it's just that they're surviving events that are unrealistic realistic now. Apparently, they're not planning to introduce new characters in season 5, so now I think it's time to eliminate some main cast. There's just no big threat, yk?
What annoyed me in season 3 the most is the conflict between Nancy and Jonathan. Nancy trashes on Jon for being dependant on work, but like...if he loses his job, the whole family would starve to death, because Joyce's shop is not attracting customers because of the mall. And the show wants to convince you, that Jon is in the wrong somehow.
@@wasnlos2676yeah. The only real thing he does wrong is taking non consensual photos of Nancy back in season 1. After that he’s pretty much just a regular guy
Jonathan is not heroic enough for them so they don't like him as much as Steve ( I love both btw) but it makes me so mad that they are pretty much telling you that quiet, emotionally intelligent, caring people are not as cool as badass/charismatic people Jonathan could be such a refreshing and interesting take on soft masculinity but they don't care for it, I mean Hopper's arc in season 3 proves it, they prefer loud, violent, macho men or cool guys like Steve
Yeah I don't particularly like John but only because they give him NOTHING besides struggling with money and whatnot and then just shitting on him constantly like, what is the point in that? Is it supposed to be relatable or something? Because people talk about this shit in real life, it's insane that Nancy wouldn't understand his family is poor and that he needs to support them, she's not a fucking child.
Honestly Jonathon is just a boring character. He’s just there, and they don’t do anything with him. I only see him as Wills brother and Nancys Boyfriend at this point. But he was right here.
the fact that Millie Bobby Brown had both her first kiss and her engagement in just 4 seasons of this show is CRAZY, it's taken them forever to give us a decent ending
meanwhile if they kept the show at the small scale of the first season it wouldve been more grounded and real and theyd probably be done with it by now
@@riotwryy oh, for sure! he described it perfectly in the video tho, it’s becoming more marvel franchise material than what it was originally created to be
Do keep it mind they had to stop production for a bit because of Covid 19 . If we didn’t have a lockdown it would have ended in like 2020 maybe 2021 or Netflix would have kept milking it lol
The relationships with eleven were always weird...they started with that shit way, way before she reached the level of maturity of who she was making out with...felt predatory as fuck.
@@Jorge-np3tq If you're talking about the kissing in this show, all of it is cringy involving kids kissing. I don't understand why this is a thing they need to write in to a show. You shouldn't put kids in that position because that's what you want them to do according to your script. Didn't they force Sadie to kiss, and she didn't want to?
Stranger Things has the Arrested Development problem where the show made all of its actors so famous that it became impossible to get them all together to film and as a result all of the plots get very separate and meandering
@@Kainlarsenthey’re talking about the latter revival seasons when they couldn’t get any of the cast together, which made them significantly worse than the fist three seasons.
I don’t like how different the aesthetic in season 3 is did they forget that Hawkins is supposed to be this sleepy autumnal town because after season 2 it loses all its atmosphere of Hawkins
absolutely. i see everyone calling s3 the best and im like... what?? the russians decided to put their evil base in bumfuck america? under a MALL? and this is what people consider to be the best season when the atmosphere is nothing like the first two
Yeah season 3 had fun colors that doesn't make it well written. Flipping the bad guy from the US government to Russian invasion is so 80s cold war its disappointing. Their government should be the enemy the way it always has been but hey what's ruining the message and throughline of your story when uncle Sam is offering the big bucks.
@@Mollymaukingmost people don't read into it that much or care that deeply about the smaller details of the show like "it's a small, quiet town," they also probably forget about it anyways because these seasons take forever to be released 😂
@@KelpieRiderthey getting ready for real war with them so we going to see like in the past them hyper up the people for war and showing them as more inhuman.
So my dad figured out the twist of Henry/One being Vecna pretty early on and turning a very tense scene with him and Eleven my dad said "By the way, I never told you my name. It's John Vecna" and now whenever I see a character who's an obvious upcoming twist or clearly going to be revealed as someone else, I call them a "John Vecna"
Its so crazy to me that Will got sidelined for not one, but two seasons. Narratively, he should be the most important character next to Eleven. ESPECIALLY in season 4. He's been connected to the upsode diwn since seaosn 1. He was taken by Vecna. And yet Vecna had no interaction with Will at all? They could have returned to the "possession" plotline with Will being some kind of vessel for Vecna, idk they could have done SOMETHING for him but he just does nothing despite the entire story circling around him
Writers called him out early for being in the closet, then he comes out and turns out he's a Zionist as well as gay so... maybe they always knew more even then they let on and wrote him slowly out of the story as a result. Because otherwise you are right they should have made Will into the main character alongside Eleven, it just makes sense narrative wise.
@@ChaosChannelerI mean, to be fair, Brett Gelman (Murray’s actor) is also a massive Zionist and he unfortunately isnt getting written out of the plot, I think they just didn’t know what to do with wills character (a shame because he is wayyyy more interesting)
i think the dumbest thing about the retcon is origonally Eleven had a really poor grasp of language becuase her upbringing was so clinical no one taught her to talk, she basically had no social interactions at all. but according to season 4 she spent loads of time with the other numbered kids and with staff including vecna/number one. did she forget how to talk as part of the trauma amnesia??
It looks like the kids not only didn't talk much in the younger ones, but they seemed to be regulated to small or monosyllabic words. The older ones seem to have the behavior of kids who were seperated from parents when young, but after gaining language skills.
It kind of makes sense if you consider that the other numbers also have very basic vocabulary and that she was isolated for years following the Vecna thing. This is if I'm being generous and don't just assume that the writers didn't care to actually elaborate on why Eleven was so stunted when she appeared in S1.
Saying that you can't blame the writers because it's impossible to fully flesh out so many characters, my guy who's fault is it that there so many characters
@@marocat4749I always think about why they haven’t considered writing some of the characters off instead of trying to force another storyline for them just to make them seem relevant. It seems like they’re just making the writing harder
The producers? The writers don't have full liberty on what they do. If whoever brings in the money thinks keeping all main characters alive will make more money, then that's probably what's gonna happen.
@@joaocunha4813 this, writers aren't the end all be all of a show's script. just because they're the ones to put pen to paper doesn't mean someone else can't come along and rip that paper up
literally the best version of stranger things seasons 2, 3, 4, etc is whatever the hell you're able to cook up in your brain by only watching the first season. I remember being so hyped for season 2 of the show, because the first season was so good and it left me wanting more, but season 2 left me wanting less. I suppose in retrospect it wasn't that season 1 left me wanting more exactly, but rather that it *intrigued* me and that's why I liked it so much.
If I’m being honest my favorite seasons were 1 and 2 everything after wasn’t that great for me season 3 was kinda good and season 4 kinda ruined it for me considering it was just some guy
Straight up turned eerie psychological horrors beyond your comprehension into the nazis from Indiana Jones just too basic and cartoons with an attempted serious face
The stupidest minor story line of Season 3 has to be Karen Wheeler actually considering having an affair with 18 year old Billy, who literally just graduated high school one class ahead of her daughter. I've heard she's having a bigger part in Season 5, and I'm sure the writers probably want us to have forgotten this bizarre way they sabotaged her character in Season 3.
I thought it was disgusting as I was watching S3. like why are these 40 something year old women hitting on a guy who left his teen years a year ago???
It’s another instance of the writers trying to be humorous, when that’s not what has ever been needed from the show, and also in that sick 80’s inspired notion that that situation would be funny in the first place
After reading this comment, it took me about a minute to remember who he even was. Wow. Actually crazy that I haven't thought about him in so long, even though the name Argylle is pretty unique, like when I walked into the cinema to watch Argylle (biggest mistake of my life), why didn't I think "lol he has the same name as the guy from stranger things"
Honestky season 5 would be a lot more interesting if they leaned more into the investigation aspect because tbf vecna would be a more interesting villain if like they were lookikg into it being upside down related and ots like no its just another psycher who is a psychotic killer
The older teens deciding to take vecna down with their sorry excuse of a "commando" get up and getting their asses handed to them will never not be funny. Like dude,its literally an eldritch monstrosity,a few shots from a shotgun and torches is not going to take him down.
my main frustration with this show was what they did with joyce… winona ryder was PHENOMENAL in the first two seasons - arguably one of the best actors in the show. she went from being a key part of the show and having a missing son and dead boyfriend and being deeply paranoid/traumatised to almost being a background character comedic relief alongside murray. not to mention this was a woman who would go to the greatest lengths for her kids, but by season four she’s ditching them to go to russia, and is completely oblivious to anything going on in their lives!?!? it’s so irritating to watch them waste a phenomenal character/actor that had such a great story in the early parts of the show.
This show really benefits from the seasons getting released so sporadically. So much time had passed between the seasons that I didn't even remember what happened in previous season for me to notice the plot holes.
Re: Bob. I loved Bob. I thought he was going to die. Then he gets his hero moment and they're almost out of the labs. And I'm like, Wow, maybe he'll actually live. AND HE STOPS and starts celebrating like 5 feet from the door. And I got so mad at the writing. Because you're being chased by crazy alien demon things. Why are you celebrating before you get out the door? The door is RIGHT THERE. Get out the door. Get in your car. Then, maybe, you celebrate as you drive the frick away.
THIS. Everytime this happens in a horror movie/show is so infuriating. Like what are you doing? Don’t celebrate yet. Get as far as possible and then celebrate.
@@marocat4749 He could have been halfway out the door and gotten dragged back in because he was the last one out to protect his family, and I would have been okay with it. Sad, but you know, I was expecting him to die. I just wasn't expecting him to die stupid. He was a reasonably smart character. Also he was a chubby guy. If there's one thing people who have always been overweight know, it's that we don't run fast. So with something like this, we need to keep moving while we have adrenaline on our side (I once caught the captain of the track team because he'd pissed me off. I'm about a C average in running on a good day. And there were hurdles involved and I'm a girl. ) Fat people who were bullied, above all else, have actual experience in not stopping until we reach safety or collapse from being unable to breathe and look fearfully around to see if we're clear. We don't celebrate until we're clear. We know better.
This! And they could’ve made it in a way like he almost gets out but he’s the last one so he gets dragged back in, or they they start to escape but the threat catches up to them or comes out of nowhere . But yea there’s a way to kill a character without them being dumb. Especially if they were shown to never be dumb. It’s okay if the character is dumb lol
@@chichilafemme6336 Agreed. If the character has a history of being dumb, it's one thing for the character to be dumb. It's another thing for a character who is generally smart to suddenly be dumb just because the plot demands that he die so that they can set up Joyce and Hopper. Because I could see that coming in season 2, too.
Unpopular Opinion: I was never a big fan of Vecna. I liked the idea that the Upside Down and the Shadow Monster was some sort of unknowable eldritch force that couldn’t just be taken down in a big fight. Making everything be the work of some 40 year old human guy kinda takes that horror away. But I’ve heard rumors that apparently Vecna is just a puppet of the Shadow Monster, who gave him his powers, and just thinks he’s in control. I hope that’s the case.
I see where you’re coming from but personally I think Vecna was great. I love the origin story to the character, humanising him and giving him real motivations while still making him monster-like makes him a great villain for me.
Yes to both, but I don't like how normal the big villain is. It's like, we have all this D&D-inspired eldritch monsters, and then the big bad is just a guy with totally-unexplained psychic powers who organized and militarized the Upside Down. It doesn't feel right at all. I was hoping Vecna was going to be the human general, so to speak, of whoever the biggest evil thing in the Upside Down, which would have come closer to having it both ways. I know it's a weird opinion, but I think that way could have maintained the threat, just because SOMETHING ELSE is still ultimately motivating everything, and there would still be some power scaling for 11 and Vecna could still organically come back while also power scaling appropriately and be a threat.
The more the show delved into the upside down, the less interesting it got. It was so cool in s1 when we just got a brief glimpse and it didn’t make any logical sense, but now they’ve over explained it and all the characters can just wander in and out of it unfazed.
In the 80s, beneath the surface, we all had a constant fear of a Soviet attack--and it pervaded through movies and even music. The introduction of the Russians, stereotypes and all, is a homage to the films of the day.
@@briannordt4457 Then they should've done something actually plausible instead of ridiculously stupid. Like idk maybe the USSR is after the MKUltra successes to replicate their powers for their own intelligence agencies, and sends spies disguised as federal agents to comb Hawkins for them.
@@briannordt4457 The first season felt like a subtle commentary on those tropes but the later seasons play them straight, to the point that it's like an entirely different show now. The same thing happened with the MCU. Started out as a relatively nuanced take on the US military and government and ended up feeling like an endorsement of them lol. It's an open secret that the CIA became involved with those movies as they got more popular, sometimes when I'm in a tinfoil hat mood I wonder if Stranger Things got the same treatment. "You either die a hero" etc.
When season 4 ended I remember everyone praising the writers and calling them genius because "they had Vecna and everything planned since the very beginning" and like... no they didn't?? It was so obvious they just came up with that at the last minute 🤣
As much as I love S4, I totally agree with you 😂 I think they did a really good job at tieing him into all of this mess, but it's so obvious they just make stuff up along the way. I think the writers, against all odds, manage to make great connections to past story lines in every season. Way more than other series/movies/books but it's very clear how not planned out this entire story was from the start.
@@Jmatongo777 It does. People constantly talk about how Oda had One Piece planned from the very beginning when he's just really good at tying plot points. One Piece has solid writing, but there's no way in hell you'll get me to believe Oda has everything planned from chapter 1
Season 1 Steve was right. I know he is a violent asshole, and that's too much. But, bear with me here, he was mad at a creep that took pictures of him and his girlfriend right after having sex, and then the dude is hanging out with her, on a wild goose chase over a monster in photographs? What kind of sane person wouldn't be 100% against all of that happening?
IMO people being angry at Steve falls into "jock vs nerd"debate, where they try to bellitle someone for just being a jock and nerd must be the positive guy. Nothing wrong about being awkward guy who is not into parties, sports etc. but it would be nice if you are not a creep trying to sell himself as being nicer than the jock. As you said, with all his flaws, Steve rage can be understood.
I think people were also a bit mad because he decided to publicly slut shame Nancy when he found Johnathan in her room, instead of talking to her or asking her about what’s she was doing with Johnathan. He also wasn’t the best for Nancy in season 1 because he would always kind of pressure her to do things he wanted. Nancy didn’t even seem like the same person when she was with him, she felt the need to change her self to fit what his girlfriend would look like. However I do agree with you that he had every right to be upset about Johnathan taking pictures of him and Nancy. Though he could have went about it differently.
thats my biggest issue with Jonathan's character is everyone seems to forget how creepy he was i season 1. as much as steve wasnt good for nancy, jonathan wasnt the best either
@@CyberCervine THANK YOU! He started as a creep and everyone (show included) just brushed that under the rug and acted like he *hadn't* been stalking Nancy and taking pictures of her in intimate situations without her knowledge. That's not just a silly quirk, that's so gross
I think I heard somewhere that in Season 4, they were planning to axe Steve, but chickened out at the last second, and instead killed Eddie as a replacement. And you can see the original intent in the finished product: Steve confessing he still loves Nancy only for him to die would probably lead to a more interesting second interaction with Jonathon in the season finale. The writers give Eddie this real brotherly dynamic with Dustin, which probably were scenes with Steve, given their previously close bond on the show. Plus, Steve doesn't really have anything to do at the end of Season 4.
Plus the fact that Eddie was killed out of nowhere and for no reason. Like his story was that he needed to do the brave thing and help out, which he did by playing the guitar and being the distraction or whatever it all was. And then with his job done he is inches away from climbing back to safety only to go “hey actually lemme just go stand back outside for a while lol” because going back accomplished NOTHING! They needed a death and couldn’t touch one of the mains, so instead of just having a completely victorious moment where everyone thinks they’ve gotten in and out scot free until the gut punch of what happened to Max settles in, they killed off a fan favorite character for no reason after they ticked the guy’s plot resolution box.
Eddie was always intended to die. His character was actually written purposely for that. He was actually suppose to die early in the season, I believe like in episode 1 or two, but the writers got attached and pushed it as long as they could. ua-cam.com/video/jRW_R1RXJeA/v-deo.htmlsi=gn3T87rigCaX0AkD This is one of the interviews they mentioned it.
As a biologist, Season 2 is my favourite by far. Just the way they slowly develop the ecological lore (demogorgon lifecycle/mindflayer hivemind) of the upside down is so interesting. It makes me wish they delved into it more in later seasons, like is the demogorgon truly the apex predator of the upside down? Or what creatures would reside in the oceans of the upside down?
they actually made him so toxic, like i thought it was because he was so out of his comfort zone as russians sneaking an underground base into the US is just absurd to understand but no, he was a total dick and i'm glad despite the fact the russia plotline was awful in s4, we see Hopper actually vulnerable with Enzo.
Hopper starts as a vietnam veteran who doesn't seem to like killing people and has a nuanced character and then suddenly becomes an action hero machinegunning down russians It's very similar to Rambo undergoing the same 'persona reset' for the sequels If that was some deliberate inside joke between the writers I could almost respect it
Hopper is a pragmatist. He probably got some of that instinct during his time in the army/Vietnam. I'm sure he doesn't enjoy killing, ever. However, he understands when it's kill or be killed. Yeah he sprayed bullets into a bunch of Russians, but the Russians would have either killed him or gotten in the way of what he was trying to accomplish to the detriment of the people he's fighting for. It could be argued that he yelled too much and was mean, but I think sometimes people forget that it's a TV show. It's not real life. It's not a documentary. He's too much of a cartoon character? Has anyone ever watched TV before? It's like people hate fun.
@@AnnieMar Part of the fun in TV is watching characters react to situations in-character or being forced to undergo change. Flipping a switch and just doing whatever has as much thought put into it as if we just let AI write the scripts and edit everything as if it was tiktok/shorts to keep engagement up.
About Robin's character change inbetween the last two season's, I remember seeing an interview about season 4 with the Duffer's and they said something along the lines of "We found out Maya does this thing where she can talk really fast, so we could give her these monologues and she'd be able to get them out way quicker than anywhere else" So basically they realized Maya (Robin) is a fast speaker some time in between season 3 and 4 and decided they were going to rewrite her character and hope no one noticed.
I thought she got stuck halfway in a portal to The Gilmore Girls universe. Such a shame because she was the best part of season three and Maya Haeke is such a likeable actress. Why they gotta do my queer homie like that?
That's so dumb. It's as if Jon Watts noticed that Tom Holland had a British accent and thought it'd be a good idea for Peter Parker to have a British accent too. It's called acting!
Really? I've always interpreted it as her being potentially neurodivergent and only comfortable in small groups of people who aren't her age I'm all for developing a TV character if you find out more about the actor's range, but not to the point of completly changing the character!
My problem is that as the actors aged Netflix decided it was an opportunity to push the show more into a CW teen drama rather than a dark sci-fi adventure. They left behind what made Stranger Things interesting and new to chase after what was boring and tiresome,
Shut up like did you expect the characters to be the same age forever if every season takes place a year after the last like no one complains about the characters in harry potter becoming older
@XxgremIin_guyxX I think you might have misinterpreted their comment. What they meant was that they don’t like how the show now has the same TONE as teen drama CW shows and an overemphasis on romance between the kids. They didn’t say that they were mad at the kids aging, more so mad at Netflix for changing how the characters were supposed to be viewed.
To me, Stranger Things suffers from what a lot of other shows/movies/franchises suffer from when they explode in popularity and become so pervasive in pop culture. The writers and showrunners start making what they think is a good "Stranger Things" story, rather than making a plain good story that just so happens to be set in the Stranger Things universe. It's like they get trapped in this self-fulfilling prophecy of wanting a new story thats just as good and magical but BIGGER and BETTER than the first one, only to fall short because, at the end of the day, they're still just trying to recreate the magic rather than surpassing it or even taking the risk of doing something completely different.
@@marshmallsy I wish the Duffer Brothers were forced to write S2 through S5 of Stranger Things while completely isolated from the internet, and then they weren’t allowed to change any of it
@@Jdudec367 Friendly Space Ninja goes over it in-depth. But there is still more you can get into - Justice For Barb - The show's inability to kill any major character and the use of side characters as cannon fodder - 11's fellow Hawkins Lab survivors that will be ignored because people didn't like one episode - Basically anything that's happened to Nancy after S1 from her love life to becoming a girlboss ______________ The Duffer Brothers are way way way too influenced by the internet
Exactly, this seems like an ever occurring cycle in popular culture. Something becomes successful and then profit becomes the motivating factor. The thing then has to become as appealing to as large of an audience as possible and just becomes a tired cliche of itself. This is literally how entire genres of music die off. Can we just stop endlessly rehashing things and stop making everything into a franchise or a "fill in the blank universe" and just let good things rest?
The latter seasons become adaptations (or even parodies) of the earlier seasons, rather than continuations pulled from the same mind source. It's like creating the Star Wars vs. creating something inspired by Star Wars
"His peers think he's a bit of a weirdo because he's awkward and solitary." Also because he peeped on Nancy and took photos of her undressing but the series just sweeps that under the rug and never treats it like the creepy thing it was. Then the series proceeds to beat Steve down for calling Jonathon out on it and whoop what do you know, now Nancy likes Jonathon despite him being a creep.
Yes, thank you! I hated that so much. So many people got angry when Steve broke Jonathan's camera. Sorry, but there's this weird loner lurking in the woods behind Steve's house for an extended period of time, taking pictures of him and his friends swimming and then of his girlfriend in her underwear (catching her in a very vulnerable situation, especially because she's about to experience her first time), and he even takes the film to school to get it developed. I would have wondered what he wanted to do with the pictures. Blackmail Nancy? Copy them and distribute them all over the school? Use them for his "excitement"? Did he have a whole collection of such photos? I'm sorry, but if Nancy had been the one who broke Jonathan's camera, people would have applauded her, but because it was Steve, it was bullying. Give me a break. Sorry for the rant, but this scene has always annoyed me. 😤
@@maravertin Exactly. I totally forgot he even went to get them developed. Was he just being artsy? Or did he have malicious motives? Either way, it was incredibly creepy and weird and the series never addresses it or holds him accountable (expect for Steve breaking his camera, but again, the series paints that as Steve going "too far." Even though most boyfriends would beat Jonathon's ass for what he did, Steve let him off pretty easy all things considering.) Nancy suddenly falling in love with Jonathon after he did this too just makes it so extra gross. Like, did she think what he did was cute? "Oh creepy loner guy, it's so adorable you stalked me and my friends and took pictures of me getting nude, let's get married!"
@@user-vf8yr6hh1u Yes! That's why I was so happy that she was still with Steve at the end of season 1. Instead of the cliché of the pretty girl ending up with the loner, she stays with the jock and the jock is actually a great guy. I can't remember if I've ever seen that in any other film or series. But then they ruined it in season 2 ...
And I'm pretty sure they edited it out a scene where jonathan takes a pic of nancy only wearing a bra. I thought it was a mandella effect but after the st team confirmed editing things in old seasons (that one instance that they forgot will's birthday for example) just confirms they try to see him as the good guy
@@maravertinIf I can recall people were more mad at Steve for slut shaming Nancy when he saw Johnathan in her bedroom not breaking his camera. He could have spoken to her or expressed that her being friends with Johnathan made him uncomfortable because when he was first introduced he was a creep that took pictures of them. But instead they have Steve tell his friends lies about Nancy and Johnathan and then plaster it publicly (on a movie theater banner), basically slut shamming her for something she didn’t do. Steve definitely had every right to be upset but they could have had him go about it differently.
Nothing will beat that high of watching season 1 for the first time and falling head first into the mystery, ending each episode even more excited to watch the next because you can't wait to see it all unfold
What they did to Eleven's character was the worst. They retconned her to make her more "good", but when she killed, it wasn't about good or bad, it was about survival, and the trauma of growing up as a lab experiment. She was a nice girl but if you threaten her life or that of her friends, you're toast. That's what made her badass. They really took away a lot by reconning her.
Part of taking away that more grey/child trying to adapt characterization was their decision to not make her a victim of isolation and extremely abnormal development but more heavy abusive but still socialized development + amnesia to explain why she didn’t remember it or vocabulary
You're confusing retconning for character development. She struggled herself with the thought that she's a monster, specifically because of her lack of self control in killing people with her powers and unleashing the upside down on the world. It's a huge part of the story.
@@commandercorner5575 It's retconning when they go back and change an integral part of the character so that something they did never happened, or so that a key aspect of the character no longer exists. She had killed a lot of people in the lab to escape when she switches to psycho mode, then they went back and changed it so that it wasn't her but Vecna who killed them. That's a retcon not character development. Character development would show the reason she had to kill them, like they were all attacking her and she blew up and went into berserker mode in self defence. Sometimes the retcon makes the story better, often times it doesn't. In this case, I think most people agree that it doesnt. They just didn't want her to be someone bad who killed other kids as the story became more Hollywood over the seasons, singing cheesy songs, having boyfriend issues and shopping at the mall. They underestimate their audience's ability to think with nuance.
I'll die on that hill: I ADORE Max, but she should have died during the epic scene to make it unforgettable. She loses the fight, breaks, falls off, no music... BAM. Your audience is traumatised, but now they know for sure that the meanie means BUSINESS.
I personally doubt she'll make it much further, though. She had all her limbs vroken and hadn't lost her eyes but had definitely gone blind, so it's probably going to be to be a very slow "might have been better off dead" moment. That or she'll find some latent psychic powers, I dunno.
i cannot communicate how happy it makes me that someone else thought billy's 'redemption' was redundant, i actually thought i was going mental and just didnt understand the show
the fact that he has an avid fanclub just shocks me... as if he wasn't a RAGING racist and abusive person. idgaf if he had a rough childhood, so many ppl do and don't take it out on others. he continued repeating the cycle in his own volition. his death was only sad for the fact that it affected Max and left her with trauma.
It never hit me how hopper and Joyce had to wear hazmat suit in season 1 but the kids don't have any protection in season 4. I had no idea there were so many loopholes'
How to fix season 4: 1. Hopper is dead and done. Joyce's character arc can be about how she doesn't have any full-grown adults who understand her now that he's gone, and she puts all her anxious energy into protecting her kids. Eleven's arc can be about her being depressed now that her father figure is gone, a hole that getting her powers back doesn't solve because she can never bring him back. 2. Jonathan and Nancy don't have their conflict be about their romance. -- Jonathan's arc is about being a role model for Will (who had his adolescence robbed from him) and El (even worse childhood development) and becoming someone that they look up to as their older brother, teaching them how to deal with bullies in the way he wished he could have done as a teenager. -- Nancy focuses on her career but realizes that all her "badassery" is still ingrained in her. She has PTSD and yearns to be in situations where she can be the badass, seeking out opportunities to physically protect the people she cares about. This causes a rift between her and Steve, who actually wants to move on and be a normal guy who owns a house and has kids. Ultimately their fighting Vecna becomes tragic as... 3. Eddie doesn't exist and Steve dies at the end of the season. They were building it up so hard just to make him live that it rivaled GoT season 8 levels of "subverting expectations." But, if he makes the ultimate sacrifice to save the people he loves, this could play into Nancy's altered character to make her realize that not everyone can be saved. 4. Since Eddie doesn't exist, we need a vehicle for the Satanic Panic plotline. This is where Mike comes in. He is the head of the DnD club, and Dustin is in the club with him. They have disagreements about how to run the club - Dustin is more logistical, focused on what they can do with their budget, while Mike is more focused on what would be fun and engaging for the club members. It's a minor yet realistic conflict that causes their friendship to waver but ultimately they realize it's a dumb thing to be mad about when... 5. Dustin is blamed for Chrissy's death. She could have been out late at night, getting her drugs at at the same time DnD club is having an evening session. On Dustin's way home, he sees Chrissy "overdosing" aka being Vecna'd, and runs away in horror. One of his DnD dice or trinkets or something falls out of his pocket as he runs, accidentally leaving implicating evidence at the scene. The detectives know that there's no way a boy his size and age could have mangled a girl like that, and he has a convincing alibi through Mike who will help him. But the townspeople and Jason think they know better and do their headhunting anyway. 6. Robin stays her cool intelligent self while still being the autism/neurodivergent representation the fans want. In the beginning of the season we see her acting as her true self around Steve, rambling and being a little awkward. Then, when she interacts with other characters, she slips the cool girl mask on and the audience realizes that she pretends to be a different person around those she isn't comfortable with. Her and Nancy's buddy investigation arc can still happen with Robin being way better at acting than Nancy but reveals that it's because she's always pretending to be normal anyway, so taking it a little step further isn't difficult. The roadtrip plot is now spearheaded by Joyce, whose intuition guides her towards saving El. Jonathan, Will, and Mike join in, making the rescue mission feel like season 1: a family chasing after someone who's gone missing. The Hawkins plot now is much more contained. Characters who had no point in the season now have at least some relevance, and characters with dramatic personality shifts get to maintain their arcs in a sensible way or at least have time to breathe and change over the course of the season. It also makes the characters vulnerable to Vecna by saying "ALL THESE CHARACTERS HAVE PTSD, MAX IS JUST THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE A SUPPORT SYSTEM SO NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE." By no means is this comprehensive enough to fix everything, but my god it was easy to imagine so much that would stem from Hopper being truly dead and Eddie never existing. 17 main characters reduced to 12, with tons more screentime each now that the Russia plot is axed.
As someone who likes the idea of Robin and Nancy getting together, I believe with these revisions it would make a lot of narrative sense. Nancy is the person Robin wishes she was, a neurotypical and assertive girl who can fit in with people without trying. Robin is the person Nancy wishes *she* was, a level-headed girl who seems to be unaffected by trauma. Through their time together, they realize the impressions they had of each other were all wrong and they're both struggling with stuff internally. Boom, attraction. Steve is still in love with Nancy, but he doesn't get in the way of it at all. He's just happy that the two people he cares most about are finding happiness in each other. When he sacrifices himself, he says "Take care of her for me," which could mean either of them. Jonathan realizes that it's a natural progression of their time apart, and is almost relieved because it means he can move on from Hawkins for good once it's all over.
I just don’t understand why the Duffer Brothers think killing off some of the characters would ruin the show’s popularity. Sopranos and GOT killed off its main characters all the time and they were some of the most successful shows in history
The greatest weakness of later GOT seasons was when they were left with no material to adapt, so they started putting the most important characters in unsolvable situations and still surviving, which killed all kinds of tension and exposed the plot armor clear as day. Until then, the characters that could survive were rarely put at the harshest of situations and could plausibly survive, often with the help of someone else. Characters that made stupid decisions were punished, and even those who made clever ones were still at the mercy of the machinations of others. It was masterfully-crafted political intrigue.
@@Karanthaneos This is a misconception about GOT, btw. There's plenty of material after season 4 that could've been adapted, and not to mention that so many of the magical aspects of the books were cut as early on as season 2. The showrunners just chose to not adapt the entirety of book 4 and book 5, and in retrospect, it was pretty obvious that the creators; David & Dan, were only interested in adapting ASOIAF to reach the red wedding, and had a fuck all attitude after completing book 3.
I think Stranger Things suffers from the same infliction that is haunting most of big media these days: They don’t know how to or when to END. No sequels, no “origin story” rehashes. Done. Finito. Completed. And then we as the audience can’t truly get invested in the story because the ending is never gonna happen, or even worse, is hot dog water.
I think that the creators of lost explained it as "essentially what were doing was flying a plane from place A to landing B but the network didn't want the plane to land so we keep circling landing B but at some point we will run out of fuel" They also have to deal with the eternal question of "make a good self contained show and risk it getting an unnecessary sequel" or "make a show with and ambiguous/sequel bait ending and risk not getting renewed for a second season and disappointing your audience"
@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access it’s ironic because as a non-watcher, I’ve acknowledged how Netflix has so many other shows they care less about than Stranger Things who have their storylines across multiple seasons planned out but they get cancelled anyway.
My biggest issue is that show stakes keep getting bigger but the cast keeps staying the same teenagers that makes it impossible to take seriously when they’re defeating some world ending monster that somehow just can’t manage to defeat the quirky token club
I will forever be grateful for this show bringing winona ryder back to the screens. She was a childhood icon of mine (Heathers, Dracula, Beetlejuice, Girl Interrupted) and she was done so dirty for so many years. I will also never get over the fact that she didn’t win an Emmy for S1. She was so damn good.
I thought the ending to Season 1 was beyond brilliant, and DESPERATELY hoped they'd anthologize the series from there. Finding out that that's what they *wanted* to do, but Netflix pushed them to continue the S1 story breaks my heart...
Season 4 is a prime example of people confusing emotionally resonating with something with really good writing. Every time I've seen someone gush about it, they've talked about how much the characters mean to them or how they cried at a scene or how this is their favorite show but never actually addressing any of the flaws, fluctuations or narrative choices the show made past S1. I can love a character and independently acknowledge whether they're well or poorly written or a morally just or bankrupt person, but a lot of online discourse lately absolutely rejects that sort of nuance.
that is so accurate like when i first watched s4 i absolutly loved it but with some perspective it came to be my least favorite season i think the fact that we had been waiting for the show and all the hype also really played into ppl loving s4 as much as they do
I agree with the first season being a perfect iconic 8 hours of television. Will disappearance made the atmosphere so good and Joyce doing everything to find her son. Her acting, her fear and determination was such good writing and she became my favorite character of the first season.
I remember how the idea with the christmas lights and the alphabet absolutely blew my tiny fucking mind and I just HAD to let everyone know how cool this show was. It's just a shadow of its former self now by season 4.
It genuinely saddens me that if you took every season, removed everything from the first season , beefed up the new characters and you did some reestructuring, Stranger THings would be a really good anthology show. Just imagine season 4 if it was only about eddie, chrissie and the blond bad guy
Or an anthology show ala american horror story where there are references to past seasons and then it all crescendos of coming together in the last season
This is exaclty what was i'm thinking! Even season 3 could have been saved with this, even if it continued to be considered the weakest, at least it would just be an isolated experimental move, instead of the abrupt change in tone and character assassination that actually happened.
I think this may have sort of been the plan, based on pieces together clues from interviews and the show. Anthology series following different number kids from the institute. They tried to make it happen as a one-off with 8, and Vecna is season 4. Would have been way better. Except for 8. She was dreadful
@@ikimeht They could have had their cake and ate it too. 4 season anthology and 5th season where all the characters come together to take down whatever? Would have been so hype.
per your point of 'give Jonathan an emotional arc with his brother and then kill him off,' i'll never understand why his season 4 plot line was Stoner(TM) and Will's was 'guy who is there' when Eleven has just been brought into their family and is being bullied at school. like, i think it could've been really impactful to actually explore Jonathan and Will growing to accept Eleven as their sister. and, as you mentioned, Will isn't really a fighter, so when Eleven is being bullied, it makes sense for him to be more passive. but he could tell Jonathan! Or does Jonathan just not care??? he was an outcast in school too! that could have been the starting point for their arcs that season and would tie them more closely to whatever Eleven gets up to - Jonathan's looked after his brother in the past, now he's looking after his new sister, and then he has to protect them throughout the season when things start gearing up
Another thing that should’ve been explored but didn’t because we need the stupid love triangle to come back (even though Steve last season was his own person. Also why do they think he always needs to be in a relationship?)
After getting along with popular kids like Nancy and Steve, I feel like they could've used the Byers moving to California as an opportunity to show growth in Jonathan and Will. I liked that they gave Jonathan a friend, but they could've made it less of an attempt at comedic relief and show that Jonathan now knows how to connect with people. Will could still be struggling with growing up at the same pace as the kids around him, but he knows how to make friends and people clearly liked him to an extent at his new school. They could've stepped up to guide Eleven, this time being the ones to "save" her from situations like being embarrassed, being bullied, etc.
I would've been okay with Stranger Things being one season. The first season was lightning in a bottle and the more they kept going, the more it lost its luster. The other seasons were *fine* but they honestly couldn't top the first season. I'm sorry.
Agreed, it was apparently supposed to be an anthology series, but the Duffers liked working with the cast members too much. It lost the magic that had made it special by adding new characters.
Ohh yeah. I absolutely loved the complete mystery S1 was and that it was just one such monster from a spooky world they knew little about. I loved how the boy and his mum communicated with the lights. I also loved that El was just a random little mishap. Something unplanned and I love that the Cold War was just mentioned in passing for world building, but was not that important at all. Then all the other "Elevens" started getting introduced and it was less of a "Oops.", but "We planned this.". The monsters were more familiarized to us and became less of a horror mystery and more of an action flick. Of course I was okay with all this, but in the end the Russians recreated a portal and that was where I peaced out.
I feel so validated reading this. I remember telling people I hope the show is an anthology series before the second season was even announced. The show was really good at revealing a mystery and by the end of the first season there were no real mysteries to unravel anymore unless they made more up.
@@thedrunkenelf My country doesn't have them either but there are several scenes in the series that show people eating them and refering to them as Eggos, their packaging is also often featured in both back- and foreground as product placement. It's really not that difficult to realise that they mean something other than actualy eggs when they say 'Eggo' at least. But I agree, I had to look up what they are exactly too. Which took like one minute and is something the video maker could have done too to realise he made a mistake and now looks a bit silly. I don't even disagree with the rest of the video, it's just this one detail I think is weird to point out when it's his lack of observational skills that is the problem.
i can’t believe the writers went ‘we need a socially outcast wierd character who would easily be scapegoated by a conservative christian town who has a relationship with the main bunch of teenagers, specifically dustin and has a good dynamic with steve’ and decided to make a WHOLE NEW CHARACTER instead of just using robin??
I get where your coming from but it's also much easier and realistic to scapegoat someone who at the time 1. Plays DnD 2. Likes Metal 3. Dresses like someone who does not fit with conservative values (wears a shirt that says HELLFIRE on it, wears earrings, uses rings (not wedding) and has long hair similar to a hair metal band which were also ostracized by such groups at the time) Then it is to scapegoat a petite and socially awkward girl
@@carlos8361 yeah i fully see where your coming from, which is also why i think the writers did what they did, but we don’t know anything about robin’s general life at school or home during season 3 really, she never says anything that implies she couldn’t like those things, and they have full control over the story they’re telling. i don’t think the manhunt would have worked the same because i don’t think a town would be as down to send a group of teenage boys to murder a girl lol, but again, they could just… write a slightly different story :P
They were both paying homage to D&D being caught up in the Satanic Panic, and putting a heavier focus on one of the show's biggest inspirations (D&D). Robin got more spotlight this season too, so not sure why you're complaining. The series always introduced new characters that quickly became favorites, often just to get killed off.
The worst thing about them not killing off characters is that the very few characters they do kill off are so obvious. Like Eddie, firstly he was a new character that they added which is already an issue cause they won't kill any main ones, but secondly, they put him into a situation where his entire life is ruined and there's no going back because people think he's a murderer. They very much could have used this size of role for one of their already established characters, like johnathon.
Plus they fumbled the sacrificing moment for him! We ended up loving him and he got his big, crazy, guitar playing moment. So a good story would either have him dying right there during the last moments of his solo or due to some fundamental fuck-up moments afterwards. But instead they let him get away, get within literal reaching distance of complete safety, only to have him go “actually lemme go outside for… reason…” and then get killed. I am sure that it was more nuanced than I remember it being but even sitting on the couch with my family watching it when it first dropped, all of us went “wait… what?” When he turned back and died.
I forgot how much I hated Hopper in S3. Like I legit found his character lowkey scary in that season, he made me uncomfortable to watch his scenes. I didn't understand what possessed them to do that to his character.
s3 is honestly my least favorite season because of how diabolical they made hopper’s character… still loved joyce in s3 but they paired her up with a crazy ooc hopper and i always find myself skipping their scenes because i can’t stand him. it’s wild to me that people who love s3/say it’s their favorite season also really love s3 hopper (or s3 joyce/hopper) because they did him so dirty.
I feel like there are mostly two fates a tv show can have these days. You either get cancelled after one or two seasons or you see yourself become really fucking bad. No I am not angry at the umbrella academy finale
Agreed. There are gems inbetween that tell a complete story and know when to quit (Dark and Fleabag being prime examples), but damn, they've really become the exception.
I distinctly remember seeing Cosmonaut talk about how he thought this show was gonna be an anthology, and the fact that I have to live with that what if kills me
@@hannahw7023 I just realized that they could have made the entire show about the eleven "secret projects" the government made and have each season be about how the characters flee the facility and try to use their powers in order for them to get ahead
As much as I like long series, I'm so grateful that for example Queen's Gambit is only one season long. It's crazy that we're on a point where we hope a series stays short
@@luiiiandmovieee I actually think you could have gotten at least one more year of Queen’s Gambit. Beth Harmon was kind of a faux Bobby Fischer era chess player in the 1960s. And I think the logical next step would be to do a show about Beth as a faux Garry Kasparov era player in the 1980s/1990s. You do a season where 45 year old Beth Harmon has to face a chess computer like Kasparov vs Deep Blue. Yes, she has a complete character arc already, but thus concept is jumping her so far into the future that you can make everything new and as related or unrelated to the past as you want. It could be a soft reboot that doesn’t even require you to have seen the original
I’ve actually found myself gravitating to a lot of Korean tv shows because they’re often just 1 season, and I know I will get a complete realised story. No ending on a cliffhanger then the show getting cancelled. Just a complete story in 16 episodes. I rarely watch English content now.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396- THIS 😤🤬 The money that can be made from merchandise can end up being the sole reason that writers are forced to make certain story decisions. The studio comes to them & literally makes them change or add things in, so they can attempt to bring in more money. But that can RUIN a show, if it's not done well! House of the Dragon is suffering from this BIG TIME. The showrunners have completely changed a lot of the main character's fundamental natures on that show, in order for the audience to be more of a 50/50 mixed split. That way, they can hopefully have everybody buying up more "Team Green" or "Team Black" merch & sh*t. Because the fact is: Had they NOT changed a lot of the characters' natures & just adapted the source material exactly as was written... there'd be a HELLUVA lot more "Team Black" fans. That's how it usually is for those who read the book. Cuz the source material makes it pretty damn obvious who the vile, cutthroat, oathbreaking usurpers are. There's a reason that about 90% of the fandom who've read the novel, end up being Team Black. But that doesn't make for very good merchandise #s, does it? 😅💰 lol You can make sooo much more money, if the "Teams" are more evenly split, by making everybody in the story more "equally evil". They want fans arguing w/each other & wanting to "represent" their favorite sides in the conflict, by buying up tshirts, coffee cups & other paraphernalia, w/their teams colors on it. But in order to make a 50/50 split work... They had some characters doing seriously heinous sh*t that they NEVER do in the novel... while giving "passes" to other characters, by showing them doing their evil merely "on accident", or because they misunderstood something. They show the evil that THEY do, as being only unintended snafus... rather than as the deliberate actions of a conniving & bitter person, who's hell bent on gaining status & power for themselves, at the cost of their own family, or of the whole realm. It's terrible tbh. And to think... people actually thought the biggest issue w/the show was that they hired Black people to play some of the characters in it. 🙃💀 LMAOOO See where bigotry gets folks? They had all the racists in a tizzy at the mere IDEA that a successful show would dare to make such a powerful & rich family BLACK **gasp** instead of worrying about how the showrunners would handle those characters, or... the trajectory of the story in general, ffs. And now, already, in just 2 seasons... The show has majorly pissed people off, and made everybody worried about where the show is headed. The color of the skin of the actors playing in some roles, was NEVER a real issue! That changed nothing about their character's natures, story progression, skill set, power or station in life. But the WRITING sure as hell did. But just to be able to sell more merch... they got ½ of the show fandom rooting for a drunk, rapey, inept loser to be the king. 🤦🏻♀️😒 Great. Hope it was worth it.
i agree but i mean the queens gambit was always going to be a limited series no matter what. i know the duffers went into st wanting it to be a limited series but it was never marketed as such, never labeled as one like all limited series on netflix usually are, so thats a different case.
I think it would have made sense for Johnathan to sacrifice himself to the mindflayer instead of Billy. Stakes would be high, he would be a hero, Will, Joyce, and Nancy’s grief and fury would be a driving motivation to defeat the big bad. Billy could still die in S3 driving Max’s plot in S4.
It's pretty cool to hear the editors called out. Dean Zimmerman is my cousin, ironically he is a twin too (his brother Danny is also an editor, and they got into it thru their father, my uncle who has been an editor for like 5 decades, Don Zimmerman, however he has been battling cancer for roughly 3 years now). But definitely glad to hear my cousin is getting some much deserved love for his work.
Something I disliked about stranger things was how it went from a story happening in the 80s to a show acting like it came out in the 80s It went from a story taking place in the 80s, to callbacks to movies, and fashion, and the worst of all the Russianplot
It’s so annoying too when people say “well we were all sacred of the Russians in the 80s.” Just because something happened in the 80s doesn’t mean it needs to be in this show if it doesn’t fit the tone. The Iran Contra scandal happened in the 80s and you don’t see the show bringing that up that because it wouldn’t fit
The Russian plot could have been done well, but it wasn’t. If in S2 the way the mindflayer got it was a portal at a Soviet lab, and it traveled a long way on a bunch of ships because it needed Will for something you’d still get the best parts of the Soviet plot line, none of the billion dollar lab made in the US by Russians staffed solely by Russians who speak Russian in a small US town that somehow hasn’t noticed, and you could add in some political intrigue with the the US trying to convince the USSR to stop the experiments but being unwilling to state why they should. Badda bing badda boom, there’s your significantly less bad Soviet plotline.
One detail that I find really annoying about 011, is the way her powers manifest in later seasons compared to season 1. In season 1, when she uses her powers, she stares or makes quick abrupt movements, it feels earie and helps with the vibe of the show. From season 2 onwards however, she very often outstretches her arm to channel her power and it just feels wrong to me. It doesn't give that "strange power from supernatural source" vibe anymore, it feels more like a superpower you'd see in a hero comic book. Every time I see her channel her power by outstretching her arm, I get so annoyed.
exactly! it was a really unique representation of 'telekenisis'-like abilities that genuinely felt like she was doing stuff purely with her mind,,, but now its just the exact same as every other telekinetic hero that moves stuff with their hands- even though the whole point of that kind of power is to not need hands 😭
Also can't believe I forgot to mention this, but the screaming when using her power has also significantly reduced the creepy vibe of her power. It just feels much more thematic when she uses her power in silence.
FINALLY someone said it! Her arm thing encapsulates what went wrong with ST. Instead of a mysterious, never-see-it-coming type power it always culminates in her stretching her arms out and screaming… like. Always. When she did that arm thing with Angela i felt physically ill 😭
The concept was wrong. It should've been a series about the upside down in several points in time each season, changing cast and locations, and leaning more on the eldritch horror of the series. But the young cast was a fan-favorite, so we were stuck in Hawkins in the 80's for the entire series
I've always hated this unwritten rule that every season of a TV show needs to have a bigger, badder villain than the last one. I don't care for it hat at all because it becomes very unbelievable very quickly.
The reason why this show is so jarring to me is because you see the cast grow SO fast in the smallest amount of seasons a show usually gives for this level of growth. So they're always compensating, saying the kids are younger than they actually are and do time skips. But to do five seasons in 9 years is kind of boggling.
It's wild seeing Millie Bobby Brown began this popular show at 12 years old. Now she's 20 years of age and is married to *Jon Bon Jovi's son.* I need to sit down and process.
older people have played younger roles for decades. majority of the kids are in the age range to still be able to pass as the age they’re playing. they had 30 years playing high schoolers in scary movie and there has never been a complaint about that . who cares.
@@jourdanmadeitI think the complaint is more about how we see the 12 year olds playing actual 12 year olds in season one, and all of a sudden s3, set two years (I think) after s1, they look like 20 year olds but are still in middle/starting high school. Granted the pandemic did cause a big gap, but they could’ve definitely just said there was a bigger time skip to accommodate for the growth of the main cast. Personally seeing the kids graduating high school and/or starting college by its later seasons means it grows with the bulk of the show’s audience AND its actors, which keeps you even more connected to the characters.
honestly it doesn't bother me a lot that they are older than their characters now because they're still close to the character's age in comparison to most other actors. Many teeangers are played by actors 10 years older (vampire diaries, pretty little liars etc) so stranger things really isn't an outstanding example
Can we talk about how the show became obnoxiously obsessed with 80s nostalgia around the 3rd season? The time period is supposed to be background radiation to the show, not completely overtake it.
@@officialmonarchmusic Season 1 of Stranger Things was basically a dozen iconic 80s movies put into a blender with an extreme reference for the 80s aesthetic, you could not set this show in any other time period and it work the same. People complaining that "it's just 80s nostalgia now" are trying to articulate the criticism that the actual story of the show has lost them, the nostalgia is all they see now because they don't care about the story anymore, but the nostalgia was always there, even in the parts everyone agrees was good
I really thought the show was going to do that… but what I think killed that vision was when the show runners saw that people looooved the eighties aesthetic. That was a huge part of the hype for the first season, and they maybe thought that making it into an anthology and no longer in the eighties would kill the show.
Imagine what they could have done with the 90s, the 00s, the 70s or 60s! I think the Duffer brothers were inspired for the 1st season but was kind of forced to continue due to its success.. and then they cant even work on what they had envisioned/planned (the anthology) because of pressure to continue riding the 80s wave. I really would have liked to see the different decades...
We would be have a very different conversation about the show’s failure if it did that, and less of us would be involved because it wouldn’t be successful, because that’s a bad idea. This show was popular because of its characters. They were not going to reliably recapture that within something that can maintain the Stranger Things brand
At this point it basically is with all the old ones reversing in character arcs or doing nothing so that the new ones can shine lmao. The only real constant is Eleven yelling.
I'd love if you made a similar video about the decline of "The Umbrella Academy." It started off strongly, but by the end, the characters were all out of character, especially Five. Klaus was extremely underutilsed, as was Allison, with her being quickly forgiven for having betrayed her siblings to get her husband and daughter back, Luther was turned into an idiot for comic relief, there were mean spirited fat jokes aimed at Diego, Lila had an unnecessary subplot with Five, they'd forgotten what made the characters likable or relatable, and the ending was incredibly rushed. The only things of interest were the campy villains, who delightfully chewed the scenery.
Did anyone else notice that literally every subject from the lab had telekinesis except for 008? In season two I thought all of the subjects would have a different skill, since El and Kali did, but in season 4 it seems that all of the numbers that are shown have the same telekinetic power. It's definitely not the show's biggest miss, but I think showing all the different skills of the other subjects would've been interesting to see, since they have clearly given up on keeping the sci fi stuff subtle or mysterious anyways.
40:35 your complaint about the mind flayer's motivations/reasons being unclear is exactly why it was so compelling to me. it's so lovecraftian, this god-like entity with unknown motivations trying to cross over into our dimension. its why i loved it. lovecraft has rarely been portrayed in media, and seeing it in such a good show was hype
Such a boring and awful take. GOT sucked near the end because they just kept killing off every character. By the end, they had to replace people with just random replacements (since they still needed people for the MCs to interact with). This was the single most braindead take from MBB
The third song you played definitely sounds like it belongs in Stranger Things. And, yes, the show only continued because Netflix wanted to make more money. If it was only one season, it would've become an untouchable classic.
Growing up as a gay kid in the 80's in the midwest I felt a connection to Will's character in Season's 3 and 4. But the moment I was kinda done with it was when they're in the stoner van, and Will is bawling his eyes out, and Mike who is like A FOOT AWAY doesn't even notice. Mike, who was the emotional glue of season 1, who was always in tune with his friends has been reduced to nodding like an unaware happy idiot while his former best friend is crashing down mere inches away. What Hopper was to Space Ninja, Mike was to me. And I don't even blame Finn for being checked out.
Right? Mike, leader of the “let’s save our friend from the monster” season 1 party and one of the ones more in tune with Will’s issues afterwards is so blinded by… girlfriend? I guess? That he doesn’t pay attention to his friend in distress when they’re literally stuck in a car together with him crying for god knows how long. So frustrating 💀
Doesn't help that you can tell that the show is too cowardly to explore Will possibly being Gay in the 80s and the height of societal prejudice at the time.
@@NoodleNerd you know the resolution will be 1) will dies “heroically” at the end of the last season for them all to rally around their dead friend, being gay won’t matter at all in this decision 2) suddenly out of nowhere a cute gay boy will turn up into the story- whether or not he survives depends only on if Netflix is aware of how bad killing your gays is 3) Will goes off to college or some nonsense in a happy ending montage and again, we see him staring at a cute boy who looks back and smiles in a way that says “this is the closest to gay rep you’re getting, baybee”
Visually, seasons 1 and 2 looked like the 80s. Season 3 looked like a stylized, modern homage to an 80s music video. It was pretty, but felt really out of place to me.
It’s history repeating itself.. Stranger Things suffers from the same Hollywood virus that turned horror (initially indie) classics into soulless blockbusters with their sequels such as with Alien, Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween. Expanding on already well crafted “small” stories and transforming them into cliches.
yesss I immediately thought of Alien and how they ruined so much of the lore by over explaining or expanding Ripley's character in a bad way (James Cameron I hate you)
I always believed that music being Vecna's kryptonite was an allegory for how listening to music can support mental health. Stranger Things seemed to tie this concept to Vecna targeting individuals with trauma.
The music, the trauma, the particular song (running up that hill), Max pushing everyone away, then remembering the good times and fighting so hard to get back/live... Even Max telling Lucas, I'm still here, I'm still here. Season 4 was basically wholly about depression. 💯
I remember that victims of Vecna were children who were traumatised in some ways (Max after losing Billy, Chrissy was anxious about her parents or there was an abusive situation at home), so music being his cryptonite is kind of rational. music can bring joy to people in depressed states, I guess
And isn't this was she could escape and was harder to kill? Because she was with her friends etc. Weren't the other victims alone/with people who are not close to them? It was a long time ago idk 😅
pro tip: if you see a show come out of the gate super hot with a season 1, get a ton of mainstream attention, and immediately be renewed just assume its gonna end up bad and youll probably save yourself some time
I know it’s a totally different case but this made me think of Hazbin Hotel. 💀 It came out this January and is already set to have 3 more seasons. I believe this is what happens with a lot of these more popular shows; they got a lot of attention, higher-ups see that and give them more seasons, expect to profit from it but they end up pulling stuff out of their ass by the end. Even if it’s not the case, immediately giving a show 4 seasons is weird asl
Given that she should be horribly crippled for quite a long time (otherwise, wtf was even the point of showing her injuries), I think they’re going to give her some psychic powers. If she’s just healed and fine at the start of the next season, that’d be really shitty writing. Alternatively, if she just spends the entire season in a hospital bed doing nothing, then they might as well have just killed her off. So, I think there might be some sort of bleeding effect where she absorbed some of Vecna’s powers from the multiple times he attacked her.
They will have an entire subplot where Eleven has to rescue her from the upside down which will cause her to regain consciousness. Calling it now. Tbh they should’ve just killed her off, would’ve been way more impactful than the stupid fakeout death
The biggest problem for me was the horror factor in the show. Like season 1, they didn’t show the demogorgon unless they absolutely needed to, so they came up with ideas to create tension and the essence of horror, like with Mike and Nancy’s little sister seeing the monster through the wall paper or just having the lights go crazy and then someone is taken or shadows moving around. It wasn’t a lot, but you could feel the eeriness of the scene without seeing the big bad. Unlike seasons 3 and 4, they frame the whole show around you seeing the monsters instead of having the monster be this villain lurking in the background.
ok that joke about nancy wheeler just being sarah connor is really funny when you consider that linda hamilton is literally joining the show next season 💀
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I'll go ahead and say it. First season is okay, and after that it's downhill. Each and every season.
I'M SORRY. IT'S THE TRUTH. ONE DAY EVERYONE WILL SEE.
From the get go, the series was all about emulating things that were seen before and creating a false sense of nostalgia. It's obvious. There was little to no 100% creative decisions there.
what is that lofi song playing at 00:24
Spoiler: Stranger Things was always a mediocre tv show and most of the time doesn’t really meaningfully differentiate itself from the pastiche of references it is based on.
16 year old u was cooking dang
First things first, Murray is a goddamn Treasure and I will fight you. Celestial Shinobi or not. Second I thought it was pretty obvious the russians were in Hawkins to exploit the tear 11 Made. I figured they ran across some readings when it happened, and through spies and research found out it was in Hawkins, so set up a lab.
The search for Will Byers evolved into the search of something for Will Byers to do.
1st season: oh no my boy is missing
later: oh no my magnets fall off the fridge
something to do other than get his bowlcut cleaned up every week (those cuts are so fresh)
@yunehversomi1458 Writer A: Well, we traumatized this character in season one... so now what?
Writer B: Let's continue that, and make it his whole character.
Writer A: You're a goddamn genius.
Season 1: We need to find Will Byers!
Season 4: We need to find Will Byers... a barber
Or who he wanna do. Oop
I had legit forgotten Mike and Nancy are siblings.
Me too
So did the show, since they barely speak or interact after Season 2, and always have plots with other parties. At least Jonathan and Will were in the same plot in Season 4.
Me too
Same
does anyone remember that?
I think the biggest failing of stranger things after season one was the loss of the subtle horror. The show stopped leaning into that, and it really changed the tone
It’s too reliant on body horror now and it makes the show feel completely different to how it felt in season 1
@@YodaOnABender absolutely, on S1 you actually feel tense watching the govt listening in and tracking the main characters, it feels like the kids and even Hopper and Joyce are in actual danger going against something much bigger than themselves. By S3 the people infected by the MF melting into goopy flesh-slime plus the russians being involved made the show so incredibly tacky and no one from the main cast dying (no way 4 teens accidentally infiltrate a military russian base and make it out alive tf was that) made it feel like the stakes were at sub-zero. Will forever mourn the anthology that could've been :/
@@YodaOnABenderI think the scene where Chrissy gets killed is the best example of this. It, in my opinion, is way less scary than any scene in season 1. It’s just showing off the new budget
@@YodaOnABender Honesty I think it worked with that really, it makes it pretty unnerving and even more creepy eally.
@@Jdudec367 nah, it’s cheap shock horror. Season 1 gave you that creepy and eerie feeling with the literal “monster in the woods” setting. All the new season has is the same run of the mill “oooh he breaks all your bones and your eyes roll back into your head oooh isn’t that scary?”
It’s just not got the same effort anymore
The vibes of S1 Stranger Things are unbeatable. The Upside Down felt radioactive and dangerous, impossible to traverse, and terrifying. The more we learn about it, the less interested I am.
yeah now people just jumping in and out, they used to need hazmat suits what happened to that?
horror is so simple to get right and somehow the bigger the budget is the more likely they are to fuck it up. just dont show too much, its basically the only rule. and because mystery and uncertainty are so important to horror you dont even NEED a big budget, a lot of the best horror works are made with cheaply made props in an appropriately dark environment.
Buddy Will (a child) survived all of season one in there. How did you ever feel that it was radioactive?
@@dasaggropop1244they didn't need them, they used them as a precaution.
@@quemzzy7397 idk maybe the scene where they walked in hazmat suits
When you have a show where the writers are afraid of killing off any one of their main characters just to create "tension" they introduced entirely new characters and kill them off in the same season.
Yeah thats why it surprised me when people were super upset at Eddies death
Like guys…… did you not see this coming?
@@HerMajestyVelvetEXACTLY
Yeah. Killing off ONLY side characters is the definition of cowardly writing depending on the circumstances.
Precisely, the main characters are protected by plot armour, even when they should realistically be dead. Eddie's death felt like a waste, in that the writers didn't know how to prove his innocence.
Its worse than that guys. They have a lot of fake out deaths. Spoilers here on if you havent watched all
S1 ended with Eleven sacrificing herself and revealed still be alive.
S3 ended with Hopper sacrificing himself and being revealed to be alive later.
S4 has s scene where Max is briefly killed, only to be revived moments later.
I don't remember S2 too well, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a fake out death in that one as well. Feel free to mention a fake out death from S2 if I forgot one.
I thought I only had to deal with this while watching One Piece. ( If you know what I am talking about, I share your pain ) and I dont want to deal with this in Stranger Things too.
I felt an unspeakable sense of betrayal at the way S3 turned hopper into a violent, brainless, emotionally bankrupt misogynist. I'll never forgive the writers for that.
THIS. I couldn't understand the people who thought he was more "fun" in s3. It totally ruined his arc from s2.
Same. I am forever pissed that they ruined such a great character.
It made no sense. Season 2 had such an amazing journey for El and Hopper. Then Season 3 threw all of that into the garbage. I couldn't see how anyone would root for him to get together with Joyce after that.
Same. I couldn't finish the season and didn't bother with season 4. A tremendous betrayal of his character.
YES
"A heart to heart? What is that?" Actual character assassination.
Dumbing down characters for comic relief really shits me.
could not stop laughing
@@s.l.thecoffeeaddict1657 Haha, it felt bizarre that they'd have Hopper not understand the concept behind a "Heart to Heart" conversation, when he easily gave a few to Joyce, Mike and Eleven in the first two seasons. Just for the sake of a cheap joke.
Season 3 really missed the opportunity to explore Hopper’s trauma with his biological daughter. He could have been unable to engage emotionally with Eleven because she’s filling the place of his dead daughter, which is still a bloody gaping wound. His macho bravado could have been a coping mechanism, his angry outbursts a defense mechanism. Does Eleven even know about hopper’s daughter? Man I wish we got a scene of him telling her about his daughter, maybe going through a long hidden photo album together, Eleven comforting Hopper as he cries.
@@jamienotamyit feels like the show forgot about his biological daughter
I definitely did
I gotta say, if several, if not all of the magnets in my house suddenly stopped working seemingly all at once, id be pretty fuckin concerned.
AND at work!! And you already know the supernatural exists, like, come on!! Hopper refusing to be concerned about it just feels like misogyny
ikr??everyone just treats Joyce like some crazy delusional lady whenever she’s concerned at this point. It just feels like she’s treated more like a jokey trope than a human being, as well as much other characters in later seasons unfortunately
@@danieljones2936 in season 1, it was beautifully executed, Joyce had lost her child, it's natural that when she rambles about how her missing kid is communicating to her with christmas lights, that people just assume she has lost her marbles due to the loss of her kid.
In season 3 in comparison, the supernatural is known to exist, and there is nothing that's currently stressing her out in her life. Her kids are safe, she is just living her normal life. On top of this, unlike the christmas lights, the magnets not working is instantly provable.
I need significantly more than just suspension of disbelief, to buy that someone who is already aware of the supernatural, wouldn't take her seriously.
Nothing more annoying than waiting 2-3 years for a new season and it ends with the same “something big/bad is coming”…
I feel your pian 😢 house of the dragon fan over here ,have to Wait two f years this season was just set up again!! 😭😞
I’m sure the Duffer brothers never intended on that. A lot of things including the pandemic and the writers/actors strike occurred midway during production of the show. You can’t blame that on the series. Without any delays S2 came out 14 months after S1.
@panashe5268 people always gotta complain about something. If there was no delays I'm sure he'd be mad they didn't wait 1.5 years between each season
Hot D moment
I remember the Duffers from S1 always had an outline for more seasons (I want to say 5, but I might misremember and it might have been 3 or 4). Now idk how much those changed bc of the time and the kids growing up. As well as them not wanting to kill any one of them off. I remember looking into this right away and way before it came the mass popular hit it was, back in the beginning months when it was just a cult hit. I know that's contradicting the video, I'd be heartbroken to know my memory is going.
The fact that Jonathan's "bad choice" to stay out when he was supposed to go home wasn't to hang out with friends or see a girl, but to *work more* just drives the pain home even more, at least me as a fellow overly-responsible eldest sibling. I feel like so many stories go for the "partying teenager" trope for moments like this, so the decision to have him make what is arguably a pretty responsible, adult choice is even sadder
I agree, Jonathan is shown to be extremely close with Will, which is why he blames himself for not being around to stop him from getting abducted. The scene where he's arranging coffins for Will's funeral is heartbreaking, as he's just a teenager, a child himself, but is being forced into the role of "Man of the House." I feel like they underutilsed Jonathan from Season 3 onwards, and didn't really know what to do with him.
@@trinaq absolutely. I felt a lot of kinship with him over a lot of shared experiences and I wish he'd be utilized better, because I think that's a compelling character
I was so disappointed that Jonathan didn't get more focus after season 2.
@@Hungarycloud same 😭 I thought he was a really interesting character
Theres a lesson in that for you.
Doesnt natter what you do chances are you will get screwed regardless.
Knowing that the writers wanted an anthology makes me really sad for what we could have had instead of what we ended with.
I know right? Different dark sci fi mysteries set in different time periods would have been so cool.. and the good thing about anthologies is that if one season isn’t very strong, you have the freedom to just start over instead of dragging things out like they’re doing now
@@MajorOctofuss Problem with anthologies is that they're basically different shows, so you have to get people invested all over again every season. After all for every successful show, there's many, many shows that just couldn't pull it off for one reason or another.
Even Eddie's story could have formed part of an anthology story arc as well and it would have made much more sense in my personal opinion.
@Boltscrap agreed, that's why it's so difficult to pull it off and it's a double edged sword. Look at Black Mirror. It's a really cool series, it's basically an anthology, but you remember more the themes of the episodes than the characters. A thing like Stranger Things is very character driven, which makes pulling out an anthology quite difficult but very satisfying (if the writing level would stand at S1 throughout all of it).
Ironically I just made a take that they should have made it into one not realizing that was the plan all along lmao
Also, the first time we hear about Murray, it's implied he manipulated Barb's grieving parents into selling their house, and that's just... never brought up again
i mean it could have been a situation that went like "hey we heard about you can you maybe find our daughter?" "yes sure but you have to pay for my services" "ok sure everything for our daughter" later at home "damn what are we gonna do we dont have the money for that tho" "oh i know we should sell our house" "...perfect"
WAIT REALLY???
Yo what??? Do you remember when it was implied?
@@Iblamethebarrels when Nancy is having dinner with Barb’s parents she asks about the “For Sale” sign outside. The parents then say they sold their house to pay for Murray
They lost me when they went from eldritch horror to everything being the fault of some guy.
It became scooby doo
@@zenboy1612 And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids
Yea "spoopy man is evil." Wow how creative
YES! i love the "uh oh spooky supernatural creatures that happen to be intelligent and very scary" not "yeah btw the russians ARE evil andd so is the child experiment!"
Lost me when season 3 tried using a Russian espionage story as the basis of the "how and why" everything was happening.
Will got some fake friends tho cause what you mean they all join a DND group the second he leaves town
right? it always bothered me!! I guess that "mistake" really does prove the lack of attention the writers payed to their own story
@@sam-km7cbhellfire was written in to sell merch and to tie in eddie, also probably to make mike and dustin seem like the same people they were in S1, instead of character development (duffer brothers classic)
Ousting him solely because he's gay or weird and not because they've outgrown DND or whatever is very on brand for small town Indiana tbh
@@sam-km7cbTbh even though I feel like DND was just brought back to go with the "back to the basics" feeling as they tried to redeem themselves from season 3, I still feel it kinda makes sense that the boys started playing DND again considering that during the summer of s3 they didn't want to play because they were too focused with their girlfriends (mostly Lucas and Mike bc Dustin was constantly with Steve already). With Eleven moving away and Max breaking up with Lucas, doesn't it kinda make sense that they wouldn't have anything holding them back from playing?🤔
OMG yes, that always bothered me. They didn’t wanna play when will wanted to in season 3 and now that he’s out of town they’re playing it without him.
Turning Hopper into a possessive, dismissive, violent prick who literally threatens children, whilst also trying to act like he and Joyce are perfect for each other is especially gross when you remember that Lonnie was pretty heavily implied to be abusive to both Joyce and her children.
ETA: OH and the fact that she lost her partner, a man who she seemed to be actually in love with, only a few months before Season 3, and Hopper knows this because he was LITERALLY THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED, and he still keeps trying to pressure her into a relationship.
"wHy dO yOU kEEp pUshiNG mE aWAy JOYCE?"
"UH, idk, maybe because I watched my partner get torn apart by monsters less than a year ago?"
Hopper hating on Mike and trolling him kinda maliciously but harmlessly would've been peak comedy (because I hate Mike too, and I absolutely despise his relationship with Eleven, it feels exploitative and like a hostage situation, and paired with how sexualized this child actress was I just don't want to see her depicted in a romantic context until she hits her 30s), but they just had to go way too far and make it weird and uncomfortable. I loved Hopper in seasons 1&2, I can't stand him afterwards. I didn't even feel sorry for him when he was in the Russian prison, he stopped seeming like an actual human to me and became very overtly a character on a show, and a poorly written one too.
@Mia199603 Yea, exactly. Him and Mike having this sort of "love, hate" relationship, where Hopper likes that El has someone who cares about her, but is also naturally protective over his daughter (and doesn't believe she's ready for a relationship), could've been funny, and would've been way more realistic and true to his original character.
Also, I wholeheartedly agree about El's relationship with Mike, it's very uncomfortable. In S1 and 2, it felt natural and sweet because they were both still literal children (like no older than 12) who acted as such, but by S3, Mike is a teenage boy with the mind of a teenage boy, whereas El is a teenage girl with the mind of a 4 year old. Idk why the writers couldn't have just had them be very good friends (or even a moment with Mike where he questions El's ability to handle a mature relationship).
Tbh, hot take, but I don't think any of the relationships, or even ships, in the show are very good (and I say this as a fan).
@@Jeff-qk7jjglad someone said it, in season 1 Jonathan and Nancy were kind of like opposites, not knowing what each other were like but getting to know one another because of The Upside Down. It was sweet, and even though they weren’t dating yet it was clear they cared about each other. Season 2 reaffirmed that (Steve and his own arc) Season 3 was um. Interesting. Nancy and Jon were clearly going through stuff and honestly they should’ve just broken up because it was clear the stresses of the situations they were in was taking a toll on both of them. (My opinion is that they should stay friends the rest of the series.) Steve doing his own thing, and that’s cool, and I genuinely don’t rlly think that Steve actually liked Robin, I think he thought he did like her because he’s never formed a bond/connection with a girl before that wasn’t romantic. Or at least presented that way in his mind.
Season 4 made me actually annoyed, because the stupid love triangle came back. Seriously do the writers think that we only like romance drama around them? Because I like Nancy because she’s badass, and a whole lot of reasons. I like Steve because of the various arcs he’s had and his growth. I like Jonathan because his relationship with his family (despite not being shown that close to them since season 1 and 2..) and his perspective on things. Why can’t they just let theses characters exist without useless romance plots that don’t do anything for the story other than to create fan reactions?
@Cainen_ I fully agree. The problem with most of the relationships on Stranger Things is that they end up feeling unnecessary and forced. Aside from maybe S4 Max and Lucas, Joyce and Bob, and Dustin and Suzy (which is fine because it's such a minor part of the show), the relationships just feel like they get in the way because of how unnatural they are.
Like, after S2, why are Mike and El together? They don't have any chemistry or share any common interests (except for being in the same friend group), and their relationship has that "yikes" element because of how immature she is.
S3 Joyce and Hopper is an actually unbearable pairing because of what a shit Hopper becomes. I guess they're fine in S4, but it's so hard to overlook his reprehensible behaviour in the previous season.
I love Max and Lucas in S4, but in S3, their relationship feels like it's just there for the sake of it (mainly because both of them felt pretty unimportant in that season aside from the Billy stuff).
And of course, there's the stuff you said about Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve, which feels especially unfortunate because it feels really regressive. Nancy and Steve broke up because they were not right for each other, and it seems like now the same is going to happen to Jonathan and Nancy - what's wrong with Nancy breaking up with Jonathan and then staying single? Why do we need to do this whole dance with Steve, AGAIN? Who asked for this?
(EDIT: I accidentally typed "Max and El" instead of "Mike and El" - I meant Mike and El's relationship is weird and forced 😂)
Season 1: Finding will.
Season 2: Saving will
Season 3: ingnoring will
Season 4: will being the 3rd wheel.
Season 5: Will's revenge
Will Things or Stranger Wills?
S1: Nothing ever happens in Hawkins.
S4: Actually, 25 years ago, a man killed his whole family, blamed it on the devil and was sent to the local mental asylum. Let's go to his house we never mentioned before!
NO LITERALLY
lol nice
Do you have wax on your ears? lol
You didn't even know where vecna use to live as a kid .
That's so stupid and your are blaming creators .
That was an attempt from the writers to trying to outsmart the audience and it failed miserably. Also it was never explained how Papa managed to survive after being brutally attacked by the demogorgon, like it frustrated me so much, HOW ?! The fourth season felt like I was watching episodes of Riverdale
Probably because the show was never intended to go beyond it's first season. The subsequent seasons are simply trying to justify their existence.
The inability to kill off main characters, but introduce new ones to kill them in the same season, really dampens the fear and immersion going into season 5, it feels there is no threat and every main character is walking away unharmed.
Not only that, but it’s impossible to be invested in the new meat bags I mean characters.
@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Accessno you used the correct term the first time.
Tbh a character being permanently disabled is far more terrifying & serious a consequence as death as well, but yeah introducing brand new characters just to kill them off so you don't have to risk killing one of the main cast and making some ppl upset is lame & predictable.
@@prizethought I get u w Max, they did do her storyline amazingly, where I really was over it was w Eddie. I didn't see the purpose apart from Dustins character arc, I just didn't think it was enough of a great plot to only affect one character going into season 5. As well as Hop, his fake death was to introduce the russians, but it felt odd. The storyline was alright, but it definitely didn't need to go on the whole of season 4 imo.
It's not that I want mains to die it's just that they're surviving events that are unrealistic realistic now.
Apparently, they're not planning to introduce new characters in season 5, so now I think it's time to eliminate some main cast. There's just no big threat, yk?
Considering it’s coming to an end I have strong feeling they are killing one of them off. Feel like it’s gonna be Steve
What annoyed me in season 3 the most is the conflict between Nancy and Jonathan. Nancy trashes on Jon for being dependant on work, but like...if he loses his job, the whole family would starve to death, because Joyce's shop is not attracting customers because of the mall. And the show wants to convince you, that Jon is in the wrong somehow.
Jonathan gets a lot of unnecessary flack in general, by the show and fans both.
@@wasnlos2676yeah. The only real thing he does wrong is taking non consensual photos of Nancy back in season 1. After that he’s pretty much just a regular guy
Jonathan is not heroic enough for them so they don't like him as much as Steve ( I love both btw) but it makes me so mad that they are pretty much telling you that quiet, emotionally intelligent, caring people are not as cool as badass/charismatic people
Jonathan could be such a refreshing and interesting take on soft masculinity but they don't care for it, I mean Hopper's arc in season 3 proves it, they prefer loud, violent, macho men or cool guys like Steve
Yeah I don't particularly like John but only because they give him NOTHING besides struggling with money and whatnot and then just shitting on him constantly like, what is the point in that? Is it supposed to be relatable or something? Because people talk about this shit in real life, it's insane that Nancy wouldn't understand his family is poor and that he needs to support them, she's not a fucking child.
Honestly Jonathon is just a boring character. He’s just there, and they don’t do anything with him. I only see him as Wills brother and Nancys Boyfriend at this point. But he was right here.
the fact that Millie Bobby Brown had both her first kiss and her engagement in just 4 seasons of this show is CRAZY, it's taken them forever to give us a decent ending
meanwhile if they kept the show at the small scale of the first season it wouldve been more grounded and real and theyd probably be done with it by now
@@riotwryy oh, for sure! he described it perfectly in the video tho, it’s becoming more marvel franchise material than what it was originally created to be
Do keep it mind they had to stop production for a bit because of Covid 19 . If we didn’t have a lockdown it would have ended in like 2020 maybe 2021 or Netflix would have kept milking it lol
The relationships with eleven were always weird...they started with that shit way, way before she reached the level of maturity of who she was making out with...felt predatory as fuck.
@@Jorge-np3tq If you're talking about the kissing in this show, all of it is cringy involving kids kissing. I don't understand why this is a thing they need to write in to a show. You shouldn't put kids in that position because that's what you want them to do according to your script. Didn't they force Sadie to kiss, and she didn't want to?
Stranger Things has the Arrested Development problem where the show made all of its actors so famous that it became impossible to get them all together to film and as a result all of the plots get very separate and meandering
But Arrested Development was actually good.
@@Kainlarsenthey’re talking about the latter revival seasons when they couldn’t get any of the cast together, which made them significantly worse than the fist three seasons.
Are they famous? They all (kids) pretty much suck and Im not sure anyone (except teenagers that grew up with them) cares about them at all
@@Kainlarsentheir both good so what are you talking about
Also MBB is apparently terrible.
I don’t like how different the aesthetic in season 3 is did they forget that Hawkins is supposed to be this sleepy autumnal town because after season 2 it loses all its atmosphere of Hawkins
Secret USSR base built under a mall in 1980s indiana is the new jumping the shark
absolutely. i see everyone calling s3 the best and im like... what?? the russians decided to put their evil base in bumfuck america? under a MALL? and this is what people consider to be the best season when the atmosphere is nothing like the first two
Yeah season 3 had fun colors that doesn't make it well written. Flipping the bad guy from the US government to Russian invasion is so 80s cold war its disappointing. Their government should be the enemy the way it always has been but hey what's ruining the message and throughline of your story when uncle Sam is offering the big bucks.
@@Mollymaukingmost people don't read into it that much or care that deeply about the smaller details of the show like "it's a small, quiet town," they also probably forget about it anyways because these seasons take forever to be released 😂
@@KelpieRiderthey getting ready for real war with them so we going to see like in the past them hyper up the people for war and showing them as more inhuman.
So my dad figured out the twist of Henry/One being Vecna pretty early on and turning a very tense scene with him and Eleven my dad said "By the way, I never told you my name. It's John Vecna" and now whenever I see a character who's an obvious upcoming twist or clearly going to be revealed as someone else, I call them a "John Vecna"
😂 love it
By the way, I never told you my name. I'm John Sauron
@@Naren25 he's definitely an example of a John Vecna
"Wait it,s all about Henry being Vecna?" -"Always was"
😐huh ok, but that was not fun
Its so crazy to me that Will got sidelined for not one, but two seasons. Narratively, he should be the most important character next to Eleven. ESPECIALLY in season 4. He's been connected to the upsode diwn since seaosn 1. He was taken by Vecna. And yet Vecna had no interaction with Will at all? They could have returned to the "possession" plotline with Will being some kind of vessel for Vecna, idk they could have done SOMETHING for him but he just does nothing despite the entire story circling around him
THIS!
THIS. Will was so important in s1 and s2 and now he adds nothing at all :/
Writers called him out early for being in the closet, then he comes out and turns out he's a Zionist as well as gay so... maybe they always knew more even then they let on and wrote him slowly out of the story as a result. Because otherwise you are right they should have made Will into the main character alongside Eleven, it just makes sense narrative wise.
@@ChaosChannelerI mean, to be fair, Brett Gelman (Murray’s actor) is also a massive Zionist and he unfortunately isnt getting written out of the plot, I think they just didn’t know what to do with wills character (a shame because he is wayyyy more interesting)
@ChaosChanneler oh no, a zionist. and hes gay? How very terrible! /sarcasm
i think the dumbest thing about the retcon is origonally Eleven had a really poor grasp of language becuase her upbringing was so clinical no one taught her to talk, she basically had no social interactions at all. but according to season 4 she spent loads of time with the other numbered kids and with staff including vecna/number one. did she forget how to talk as part of the trauma amnesia??
The other children with her should also have hampered speech skills. I don't remember if that is the case though.
@edo4896 no, they sound like normal kids
@@loiracitr The older ones do. We don't know if the older ones were born in the lab like El was. and her sister got out before her, I think.
It looks like the kids not only didn't talk much in the younger ones, but they seemed to be regulated to small or monosyllabic words. The older ones seem to have the behavior of kids who were seperated from parents when young, but after gaining language skills.
It kind of makes sense if you consider that the other numbers also have very basic vocabulary and that she was isolated for years following the Vecna thing. This is if I'm being generous and don't just assume that the writers didn't care to actually elaborate on why Eleven was so stunted when she appeared in S1.
Saying that you can't blame the writers because it's impossible to fully flesh out so many characters, my guy who's fault is it that there so many characters
You even could rotate characters in and out not giving them all longer storylines.
@@marocat4749I always think about why they haven’t considered writing some of the characters off instead of trying to force another storyline for them just to make them seem relevant. It seems like they’re just making the writing harder
The producers? The writers don't have full liberty on what they do. If whoever brings in the money thinks keeping all main characters alive will make more money, then that's probably what's gonna happen.
The Duffer Bros, Wolfram and Suarez Duffer, are at fault.
@@joaocunha4813 this, writers aren't the end all be all of a show's script. just because they're the ones to put pen to paper doesn't mean someone else can't come along and rip that paper up
untold horrors beyond your comprehension get a lot less horrifying when they're, like, told, and made comprehensible
literally the best version of stranger things seasons 2, 3, 4, etc is whatever the hell you're able to cook up in your brain by only watching the first season. I remember being so hyped for season 2 of the show, because the first season was so good and it left me wanting more, but season 2 left me wanting less.
I suppose in retrospect it wasn't that season 1 left me wanting more exactly, but rather that it *intrigued* me and that's why I liked it so much.
Stranger things is the perfect case study of why you *don't* turn the unknown into the known if you want it to be scary
They followed the Stephen King template so closely they even adapted his awful writing habits lmfao
If I’m being honest my favorite seasons were 1 and 2 everything after wasn’t that great for me season 3 was kinda good and season 4 kinda ruined it for me considering it was just some guy
Straight up turned eerie psychological horrors beyond your comprehension into the nazis from Indiana Jones just too basic and cartoons with an attempted serious face
The stupidest minor story line of Season 3 has to be Karen Wheeler actually considering having an affair with 18 year old Billy, who literally just graduated high school one class ahead of her daughter. I've heard she's having a bigger part in Season 5, and I'm sure the writers probably want us to have forgotten this bizarre way they sabotaged her character in Season 3.
Thank goodness she’s having a bigger part in season 5! She truly deserves it.
I thought it was disgusting as I was watching S3. like why are these 40 something year old women hitting on a guy who left his teen years a year ago???
I'm glad somebody called this out I haven't seen anyone else say anything about this its so weird
Idk, have you *looked* at Ted? The woman gets a pass in my book.
Yes, maybe not with someone that young. But he's not a minor.
It’s another instance of the writers trying to be humorous, when that’s not what has ever been needed from the show, and also in that sick 80’s inspired notion that that situation would be funny in the first place
“I do not like Argylle”
*me, forgetting that was even a character on the show* “yeah that movie sucked but what does that have to do with anything?”
*Me reading this comment forgetting that a movie called Argylle even existed*
It does tend to help when the side characters getting mentioned also get a clip instead of just unassociated trailer footage on a loop.
After reading this comment, it took me about a minute to remember who he even was. Wow. Actually crazy that I haven't thought about him in so long, even though the name Argylle is pretty unique, like when I walked into the cinema to watch Argylle (biggest mistake of my life), why didn't I think "lol he has the same name as the guy from stranger things"
Nah, this aint it. Argylle is a goated movie
At least bro tried it before denying it
“ *Oh No! Vecna is alive and will return for vengeance in Season 5* !”
Bro got bodied by children 5 TIMES.
Honestky season 5 would be a lot more interesting if they leaned more into the investigation aspect because tbf vecna would be a more interesting villain if like they were lookikg into it being upside down related and ots like no its just another psycher who is a psychotic killer
@@danielshore1457 that is in fact happening in S5.
Even worse when only one of these kids has actual powers. The rest is just your average nerdy kid.
The older teens deciding to take vecna down with their sorry excuse of a "commando" get up and getting their asses handed to them will never not be funny. Like dude,its literally an eldritch monstrosity,a few shots from a shotgun and torches is not going to take him down.
@@danielshore1457i hope it turns out in season 5 that it was actually the mind flayer controlling vecna when vecna tried to take control
my main frustration with this show was what they did with joyce… winona ryder was PHENOMENAL in the first two seasons - arguably one of the best actors in the show. she went from being a key part of the show and having a missing son and dead boyfriend and being deeply paranoid/traumatised to almost being a background character comedic relief alongside murray. not to mention this was a woman who would go to the greatest lengths for her kids, but by season four she’s ditching them to go to russia, and is completely oblivious to anything going on in their lives!?!? it’s so irritating to watch them waste a phenomenal character/actor that had such a great story in the early parts of the show.
AMENN god she impressed me when I went to rewatch the show, it's like they dumbed her down for the damn romance plot
yeah her dropping everything and going to russia on a hunch hop might have survived the fucking engine meltdown was a big much
This show really benefits from the seasons getting released so sporadically. So much time had passed between the seasons that I didn't even remember what happened in previous season for me to notice the plot holes.
Re: Bob.
I loved Bob. I thought he was going to die. Then he gets his hero moment and they're almost out of the labs. And I'm like, Wow, maybe he'll actually live. AND HE STOPS and starts celebrating like 5 feet from the door. And I got so mad at the writing. Because you're being chased by crazy alien demon things. Why are you celebrating before you get out the door? The door is RIGHT THERE. Get out the door. Get in your car. Then, maybe, you celebrate as you drive the frick away.
And its not like he couldnt have, an " if they are still around, i will look out" moment and die stupid brave, not stupid?
THIS. Everytime this happens in a horror movie/show is so infuriating. Like what are you doing? Don’t celebrate yet. Get as far as possible and then celebrate.
@@marocat4749 He could have been halfway out the door and gotten dragged back in because he was the last one out to protect his family, and I would have been okay with it. Sad, but you know, I was expecting him to die.
I just wasn't expecting him to die stupid. He was a reasonably smart character.
Also he was a chubby guy. If there's one thing people who have always been overweight know, it's that we don't run fast. So with something like this, we need to keep moving while we have adrenaline on our side (I once caught the captain of the track team because he'd pissed me off. I'm about a C average in running on a good day. And there were hurdles involved and I'm a girl. ) Fat people who were bullied, above all else, have actual experience in not stopping until we reach safety or collapse from being unable to breathe and look fearfully around to see if we're clear. We don't celebrate until we're clear. We know better.
This! And they could’ve made it in a way like he almost gets out but he’s the last one so he gets dragged back in, or they they start to escape but the threat catches up to them or comes out of nowhere . But yea there’s a way to kill a character without them being dumb. Especially if they were shown to never be dumb. It’s okay if the character is dumb lol
@@chichilafemme6336 Agreed. If the character has a history of being dumb, it's one thing for the character to be dumb. It's another thing for a character who is generally smart to suddenly be dumb just because the plot demands that he die so that they can set up Joyce and Hopper. Because I could see that coming in season 2, too.
Unpopular Opinion: I was never a big fan of Vecna. I liked the idea that the Upside Down and the Shadow Monster was some sort of unknowable eldritch force that couldn’t just be taken down in a big fight. Making everything be the work of some 40 year old human guy kinda takes that horror away. But I’ve heard rumors that apparently Vecna is just a puppet of the Shadow Monster, who gave him his powers, and just thinks he’s in control. I hope that’s the case.
I see where you’re coming from but personally I think Vecna was great. I love the origin story to the character, humanising him and giving him real motivations while still making him monster-like makes him a great villain for me.
@@FlareDopeexactly
Yes to both, but I don't like how normal the big villain is. It's like, we have all this D&D-inspired eldritch monsters, and then the big bad is just a guy with totally-unexplained psychic powers who organized and militarized the Upside Down. It doesn't feel right at all. I was hoping Vecna was going to be the human general, so to speak, of whoever the biggest evil thing in the Upside Down, which would have come closer to having it both ways. I know it's a weird opinion, but I think that way could have maintained the threat, just because SOMETHING ELSE is still ultimately motivating everything, and there would still be some power scaling for 11 and Vecna could still organically come back while also power scaling appropriately and be a threat.
I always thought vecna was goofy af
The more the show delved into the upside down, the less interesting it got. It was so cool in s1 when we just got a brief glimpse and it didn’t make any logical sense, but now they’ve over explained it and all the characters can just wander in and out of it unfazed.
Season 3 is where they absolutely lost me. The whole Russian thing was a big ol’ “wtf”.
In the 80s, beneath the surface, we all had a constant fear of a Soviet attack--and it pervaded through movies and even music. The introduction of the Russians, stereotypes and all, is a homage to the films of the day.
@@briannordt4457a realy bad and cheap Homage
@@briannordt4457doesn't make it good
@@briannordt4457 Then they should've done something actually plausible instead of ridiculously stupid. Like idk maybe the USSR is after the MKUltra successes to replicate their powers for their own intelligence agencies, and sends spies disguised as federal agents to comb Hawkins for them.
@@briannordt4457 The first season felt like a subtle commentary on those tropes but the later seasons play them straight, to the point that it's like an entirely different show now. The same thing happened with the MCU. Started out as a relatively nuanced take on the US military and government and ended up feeling like an endorsement of them lol. It's an open secret that the CIA became involved with those movies as they got more popular, sometimes when I'm in a tinfoil hat mood I wonder if Stranger Things got the same treatment. "You either die a hero" etc.
Season one Joyce: A working class single mom struggling to find her lost son
Season four Joyce: Hijacks a plane to Russia with Murray doing Kung Fu
And she somehow has 40k saved up??
When season 4 ended I remember everyone praising the writers and calling them genius because "they had Vecna and everything planned since the very beginning" and like... no they didn't?? It was so obvious they just came up with that at the last minute 🤣
As much as I love S4, I totally agree with you 😂 I think they did a really good job at tieing him into all of this mess, but it's so obvious they just make stuff up along the way.
I think the writers, against all odds, manage to make great connections to past story lines in every season. Way more than other series/movies/books but it's very clear how not planned out this entire story was from the start.
"One Piece syndrome" is what I call it
@@mrm0nty550that doesn’t even make sense
@@Jmatongo777 It does. People constantly talk about how Oda had One Piece planned from the very beginning when he's just really good at tying plot points. One Piece has solid writing, but there's no way in hell you'll get me to believe Oda has everything planned from chapter 1
I’ve only seen each season once, so when they introduced Vecna in season 4 I was like “where did he come from?” 😂
Season 1 Steve was right. I know he is a violent asshole, and that's too much. But, bear with me here, he was mad at a creep that took pictures of him and his girlfriend right after having sex, and then the dude is hanging out with her, on a wild goose chase over a monster in photographs? What kind of sane person wouldn't be 100% against all of that happening?
this
IMO people being angry at Steve falls into "jock vs nerd"debate, where they try to bellitle someone for just being a jock and nerd must be the positive guy. Nothing wrong about being awkward guy who is not into parties, sports etc. but it would be nice if you are not a creep trying to sell himself as being nicer than the jock. As you said, with all his flaws, Steve rage can be understood.
I think people were also a bit mad because he decided to publicly slut shame Nancy when he found Johnathan in her room, instead of talking to her or asking her about what’s she was doing with Johnathan. He also wasn’t the best for Nancy in season 1 because he would always kind of pressure her to do things he wanted. Nancy didn’t even seem like the same person when she was with him, she felt the need to change her self to fit what his girlfriend would look like. However I do agree with you that he had every right to be upset about Johnathan taking pictures of him and Nancy. Though he could have went about it differently.
thats my biggest issue with Jonathan's character is everyone seems to forget how creepy he was i season 1. as much as steve wasnt good for nancy, jonathan wasnt the best either
@@CyberCervine THANK YOU! He started as a creep and everyone (show included) just brushed that under the rug and acted like he *hadn't* been stalking Nancy and taking pictures of her in intimate situations without her knowledge. That's not just a silly quirk, that's so gross
I think I heard somewhere that in Season 4, they were planning to axe Steve, but chickened out at the last second, and instead killed Eddie as a replacement. And you can see the original intent in the finished product: Steve confessing he still loves Nancy only for him to die would probably lead to a more interesting second interaction with Jonathon in the season finale. The writers give Eddie this real brotherly dynamic with Dustin, which probably were scenes with Steve, given their previously close bond on the show. Plus, Steve doesn't really have anything to do at the end of Season 4.
my thought too. eddie and dustin were written so eddie's death would have the impact on dustin steve's death would, just without killing steve.
Plus the fact that Eddie was killed out of nowhere and for no reason. Like his story was that he needed to do the brave thing and help out, which he did by playing the guitar and being the distraction or whatever it all was. And then with his job done he is inches away from climbing back to safety only to go “hey actually lemme just go stand back outside for a while lol” because going back accomplished NOTHING!
They needed a death and couldn’t touch one of the mains, so instead of just having a completely victorious moment where everyone thinks they’ve gotten in and out scot free until the gut punch of what happened to Max settles in, they killed off a fan favorite character for no reason after they ticked the guy’s plot resolution box.
Eddie was always intended to die. His character was actually written purposely for that. He was actually suppose to die early in the season, I believe like in episode 1 or two, but the writers got attached and pushed it as long as they could.
ua-cam.com/video/jRW_R1RXJeA/v-deo.htmlsi=gn3T87rigCaX0AkD
This is one of the interviews they mentioned it.
Uh, the show has a habit of killing off side characters like Barb, Bob, Eddie
FACTS AF ✴️
As a biologist, Season 2 is my favourite by far. Just the way they slowly develop the ecological lore (demogorgon lifecycle/mindflayer hivemind) of the upside down is so interesting. It makes me wish they delved into it more in later seasons, like is the demogorgon truly the apex predator of the upside down? Or what creatures would reside in the oceans of the upside down?
I love when stories take time to explain their creatures,,,,, I love learning about weird animals…
TRUE I LOVE IT and then they do nothing w that concept... yay
Spotted in the lakes of the Upside Down: the demo-gar-gon
Hopper not knowing what a heart to heart is is the equivalent of goku acting like he doesn't know how to meditate.
they actually made him so toxic, like i thought it was because he was so out of his comfort zone as russians sneaking an underground base into the US is just absurd to understand but no, he was a total dick and i'm glad despite the fact the russia plotline was awful in s4, we see Hopper actually vulnerable with Enzo.
Hopper starts as a vietnam veteran who doesn't seem to like killing people and has a nuanced character and then suddenly becomes an action hero machinegunning down russians
It's very similar to Rambo undergoing the same 'persona reset' for the sequels
If that was some deliberate inside joke between the writers I could almost respect it
Eh...Hopper still has his character nuance and reflected on his life up to that point too and where he messed up at.
@@Jdudec367you again? Bro stop defending it we get you like big explosions and campy
Hopper is a pragmatist. He probably got some of that instinct during his time in the army/Vietnam. I'm sure he doesn't enjoy killing, ever. However, he understands when it's kill or be killed. Yeah he sprayed bullets into a bunch of Russians, but the Russians would have either killed him or gotten in the way of what he was trying to accomplish to the detriment of the people he's fighting for. It could be argued that he yelled too much and was mean, but I think sometimes people forget that it's a TV show. It's not real life. It's not a documentary. He's too much of a cartoon character? Has anyone ever watched TV before? It's like people hate fun.
@@korruptor9777 Who are you? And nah I won't stop defending why should I? No I like good character writing too which is why I defend season 4 Hopper.
@@AnnieMar Part of the fun in TV is watching characters react to situations in-character or being forced to undergo change. Flipping a switch and just doing whatever has as much thought put into it as if we just let AI write the scripts and edit everything as if it was tiktok/shorts to keep engagement up.
About Robin's character change inbetween the last two season's, I remember seeing an interview about season 4 with the Duffer's and they said something along the lines of "We found out Maya does this thing where she can talk really fast, so we could give her these monologues and she'd be able to get them out way quicker than anywhere else"
So basically they realized Maya (Robin) is a fast speaker some time in between season 3 and 4 and decided they were going to rewrite her character and hope no one noticed.
Really? I thought Robin was on cocaine or something.
That’s so stupid
I thought she got stuck halfway in a portal to The Gilmore Girls universe. Such a shame because she was the best part of season three and Maya Haeke is such a likeable actress. Why they gotta do my queer homie like that?
That's so dumb. It's as if Jon Watts noticed that Tom Holland had a British accent and thought it'd be a good idea for Peter Parker to have a British accent too. It's called acting!
Really? I've always interpreted it as her being potentially neurodivergent and only comfortable in small groups of people who aren't her age
I'm all for developing a TV character if you find out more about the actor's range, but not to the point of completly changing the character!
My problem is that as the actors aged Netflix decided it was an opportunity to push the show more into a CW teen drama rather than a dark sci-fi adventure. They left behind what made Stranger Things interesting and new to chase after what was boring and tiresome,
Shut up like did you expect the characters to be the same age forever if every season takes place a year after the last like no one complains about the characters in harry potter becoming older
@XxgremIin_guyxX I think you might have misinterpreted their comment. What they meant was that they don’t like how the show now has the same TONE as teen drama CW shows and an overemphasis on romance between the kids. They didn’t say that they were mad at the kids aging, more so mad at Netflix for changing how the characters were supposed to be viewed.
To me, Stranger Things suffers from what a lot of other shows/movies/franchises suffer from when they explode in popularity and become so pervasive in pop culture. The writers and showrunners start making what they think is a good "Stranger Things" story, rather than making a plain good story that just so happens to be set in the Stranger Things universe. It's like they get trapped in this self-fulfilling prophecy of wanting a new story thats just as good and magical but BIGGER and BETTER than the first one, only to fall short because, at the end of the day, they're still just trying to recreate the magic rather than surpassing it or even taking the risk of doing something completely different.
@@marshmallsy I wish the Duffer Brothers were forced to write S2 through S5 of Stranger Things while completely isolated from the internet, and then they weren’t allowed to change any of it
@@TheJadedJames I mean...the internet didn't affect their stories that much it seemed
@@Jdudec367 Friendly Space Ninja goes over it in-depth. But there is still more you can get into
- Justice For Barb
- The show's inability to kill any major character and the use of side characters as cannon fodder
- 11's fellow Hawkins Lab survivors that will be ignored because people didn't like one episode
- Basically anything that's happened to Nancy after S1 from her love life to becoming a girlboss
______________
The Duffer Brothers are way way way too influenced by the internet
Exactly, this seems like an ever occurring cycle in popular culture. Something becomes successful and then profit becomes the motivating factor. The thing then has to become as appealing to as large of an audience as possible and just becomes a tired cliche of itself. This is literally how entire genres of music die off. Can we just stop endlessly rehashing things and stop making everything into a franchise or a "fill in the blank universe" and just let good things rest?
The latter seasons become adaptations (or even parodies) of the earlier seasons, rather than continuations pulled from the same mind source.
It's like creating the Star Wars vs. creating something inspired by Star Wars
papa surviving the DEMOGORGON is still wild to me
With 0 lasting damage
Fr! How the hell did he survive?!!
if they were smart they would make it so that isnt really him
"It was super easy, barely an inconvenience!" - Screenwriter Guy
@@afrobuddy4801 I just assumed that 1 didn't let the demogorgan kill Brenner.
"His peers think he's a bit of a weirdo because he's awkward and solitary."
Also because he peeped on Nancy and took photos of her undressing but the series just sweeps that under the rug and never treats it like the creepy thing it was. Then the series proceeds to beat Steve down for calling Jonathon out on it and whoop what do you know, now Nancy likes Jonathon despite him being a creep.
Yes, thank you! I hated that so much. So many people got angry when Steve broke Jonathan's camera. Sorry, but there's this weird loner lurking in the woods behind Steve's house for an extended period of time, taking pictures of him and his friends swimming and then of his girlfriend in her underwear (catching her in a very vulnerable situation, especially because she's about to experience her first time), and he even takes the film to school to get it developed. I would have wondered what he wanted to do with the pictures. Blackmail Nancy? Copy them and distribute them all over the school? Use them for his "excitement"? Did he have a whole collection of such photos? I'm sorry, but if Nancy had been the one who broke Jonathan's camera, people would have applauded her, but because it was Steve, it was bullying. Give me a break.
Sorry for the rant, but this scene has always annoyed me. 😤
@@maravertin Exactly. I totally forgot he even went to get them developed. Was he just being artsy? Or did he have malicious motives? Either way, it was incredibly creepy and weird and the series never addresses it or holds him accountable (expect for Steve breaking his camera, but again, the series paints that as Steve going "too far." Even though most boyfriends would beat Jonathon's ass for what he did, Steve let him off pretty easy all things considering.) Nancy suddenly falling in love with Jonathon after he did this too just makes it so extra gross. Like, did she think what he did was cute? "Oh creepy loner guy, it's so adorable you stalked me and my friends and took pictures of me getting nude, let's get married!"
@@user-vf8yr6hh1u Yes! That's why I was so happy that she was still with Steve at the end of season 1. Instead of the cliché of the pretty girl ending up with the loner, she stays with the jock and the jock is actually a great guy. I can't remember if I've ever seen that in any other film or series. But then they ruined it in season 2 ...
And I'm pretty sure they edited it out a scene where jonathan takes a pic of nancy only wearing a bra. I thought it was a mandella effect but after the st team confirmed editing things in old seasons (that one instance that they forgot will's birthday for example) just confirms they try to see him as the good guy
@@maravertinIf I can recall people were more mad at Steve for slut shaming Nancy when he saw Johnathan in her bedroom not breaking his camera. He could have spoken to her or expressed that her being friends with Johnathan made him uncomfortable because when he was first introduced he was a creep that took pictures of them. But instead they have Steve tell his friends lies about Nancy and Johnathan and then plaster it publicly (on a movie theater banner), basically slut shamming her for something she didn’t do. Steve definitely had every right to be upset but they could have had him go about it differently.
Nothing will beat that high of watching season 1 for the first time and falling head first into the mystery, ending each episode even more excited to watch the next because you can't wait to see it all unfold
What they did to Eleven's character was the worst. They retconned her to make her more "good", but when she killed, it wasn't about good or bad, it was about survival, and the trauma of growing up as a lab experiment. She was a nice girl but if you threaten her life or that of her friends, you're toast. That's what made her badass. They really took away a lot by reconning her.
Honestly, I got so frustrated when she hit that bully, and Mike acts almost disgusted. Did he forget about her traumatic past all of a sudden?
Part of taking away that more grey/child trying to adapt characterization was their decision to not make her a victim of isolation and extremely abnormal development but more heavy abusive but still socialized development + amnesia to explain why she didn’t remember it or vocabulary
You're confusing retconning for character development. She struggled herself with the thought that she's a monster, specifically because of her lack of self control in killing people with her powers and unleashing the upside down on the world. It's a huge part of the story.
@@commandercorner5575 It's retconning when they go back and change an integral part of the character so that something they did never happened, or so that a key aspect of the character no longer exists. She had killed a lot of people in the lab to escape when she switches to psycho mode, then they went back and changed it so that it wasn't her but Vecna who killed them. That's a retcon not character development.
Character development would show the reason she had to kill them, like they were all attacking her and she blew up and went into berserker mode in self defence.
Sometimes the retcon makes the story better, often times it doesn't. In this case, I think most people agree that it doesnt. They just didn't want her to be someone bad who killed other kids as the story became more Hollywood over the seasons, singing cheesy songs, having boyfriend issues and shopping at the mall. They underestimate their audience's ability to think with nuance.
Warm, butterty toast?
I'll die on that hill: I ADORE Max, but she should have died during the epic scene to make it unforgettable. She loses the fight, breaks, falls off, no music... BAM. Your audience is traumatised, but now they know for sure that the meanie means BUSINESS.
Yup, the moment she _seemed_ to be dead was truly monumental.
Yes! It would make season 5 have more stakes imo, like there was an actual loss in their friend group
YES
Facts!
I personally doubt she'll make it much further, though. She had all her limbs vroken and hadn't lost her eyes but had definitely gone blind, so it's probably going to be to be a very slow "might have been better off dead" moment.
That or she'll find some latent psychic powers, I dunno.
i cannot communicate how happy it makes me that someone else thought billy's 'redemption' was redundant, i actually thought i was going mental and just didnt understand the show
James from Dead Meat mentioned the same sentiment in his KillCount for season 3
the fact that he has an avid fanclub just shocks me... as if he wasn't a RAGING racist and abusive person. idgaf if he had a rough childhood, so many ppl do and don't take it out on others. he continued repeating the cycle in his own volition. his death was only sad for the fact that it affected Max and left her with trauma.
@@shorkeliliseriously! ugh, it’s honestly concerning how much of a following he had
It never hit me how hopper and Joyce had to wear hazmat suit in season 1 but the kids don't have any protection in season 4. I had no idea there were so many loopholes'
How to fix season 4:
1. Hopper is dead and done. Joyce's character arc can be about how she doesn't have any full-grown adults who understand her now that he's gone, and she puts all her anxious energy into protecting her kids. Eleven's arc can be about her being depressed now that her father figure is gone, a hole that getting her powers back doesn't solve because she can never bring him back.
2. Jonathan and Nancy don't have their conflict be about their romance.
-- Jonathan's arc is about being a role model for Will (who had his adolescence robbed from him) and El (even worse childhood development) and becoming someone that they look up to as their older brother, teaching them how to deal with bullies in the way he wished he could have done as a teenager.
-- Nancy focuses on her career but realizes that all her "badassery" is still ingrained in her. She has PTSD and yearns to be in situations where she can be the badass, seeking out opportunities to physically protect the people she cares about. This causes a rift between her and Steve, who actually wants to move on and be a normal guy who owns a house and has kids. Ultimately their fighting Vecna becomes tragic as...
3. Eddie doesn't exist and Steve dies at the end of the season. They were building it up so hard just to make him live that it rivaled GoT season 8 levels of "subverting expectations." But, if he makes the ultimate sacrifice to save the people he loves, this could play into Nancy's altered character to make her realize that not everyone can be saved.
4. Since Eddie doesn't exist, we need a vehicle for the Satanic Panic plotline. This is where Mike comes in. He is the head of the DnD club, and Dustin is in the club with him. They have disagreements about how to run the club - Dustin is more logistical, focused on what they can do with their budget, while Mike is more focused on what would be fun and engaging for the club members. It's a minor yet realistic conflict that causes their friendship to waver but ultimately they realize it's a dumb thing to be mad about when...
5. Dustin is blamed for Chrissy's death. She could have been out late at night, getting her drugs at at the same time DnD club is having an evening session. On Dustin's way home, he sees Chrissy "overdosing" aka being Vecna'd, and runs away in horror. One of his DnD dice or trinkets or something falls out of his pocket as he runs, accidentally leaving implicating evidence at the scene. The detectives know that there's no way a boy his size and age could have mangled a girl like that, and he has a convincing alibi through Mike who will help him. But the townspeople and Jason think they know better and do their headhunting anyway.
6. Robin stays her cool intelligent self while still being the autism/neurodivergent representation the fans want. In the beginning of the season we see her acting as her true self around Steve, rambling and being a little awkward. Then, when she interacts with other characters, she slips the cool girl mask on and the audience realizes that she pretends to be a different person around those she isn't comfortable with. Her and Nancy's buddy investigation arc can still happen with Robin being way better at acting than Nancy but reveals that it's because she's always pretending to be normal anyway, so taking it a little step further isn't difficult.
The roadtrip plot is now spearheaded by Joyce, whose intuition guides her towards saving El. Jonathan, Will, and Mike join in, making the rescue mission feel like season 1: a family chasing after someone who's gone missing. The Hawkins plot now is much more contained. Characters who had no point in the season now have at least some relevance, and characters with dramatic personality shifts get to maintain their arcs in a sensible way or at least have time to breathe and change over the course of the season. It also makes the characters vulnerable to Vecna by saying "ALL THESE CHARACTERS HAVE PTSD, MAX IS JUST THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE A SUPPORT SYSTEM SO NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE."
By no means is this comprehensive enough to fix everything, but my god it was easy to imagine so much that would stem from Hopper being truly dead and Eddie never existing. 17 main characters reduced to 12, with tons more screentime each now that the Russia plot is axed.
As someone who likes the idea of Robin and Nancy getting together, I believe with these revisions it would make a lot of narrative sense. Nancy is the person Robin wishes she was, a neurotypical and assertive girl who can fit in with people without trying. Robin is the person Nancy wishes *she* was, a level-headed girl who seems to be unaffected by trauma. Through their time together, they realize the impressions they had of each other were all wrong and they're both struggling with stuff internally. Boom, attraction.
Steve is still in love with Nancy, but he doesn't get in the way of it at all. He's just happy that the two people he cares most about are finding happiness in each other. When he sacrifices himself, he says "Take care of her for me," which could mean either of them. Jonathan realizes that it's a natural progression of their time apart, and is almost relieved because it means he can move on from Hawkins for good once it's all over.
Your S4 ideas make good sense.
please become a writer lol
@@sam-km7cb that's the plan lmao
This was an incredible fix it 😭
I always tell people when they think their story is too simple "remember even the Odyssey was just a story about going home"
Literally all odyssyus wanted to to was go home to his wife but he just has the worst luck
citizen kane is just an old guy that liked his old sled
I’m glad you called out Robins complete personality transplant. I feel like I was going crazy with no one else seeming to notice that!
i agree i loved her sm in s3 and in s4 she’s so annoying and it’s infuriating!!!
I thought I was the only one confused.
I just don’t understand why the Duffer Brothers think killing off some of the characters would ruin the show’s popularity. Sopranos and GOT killed off its main characters all the time and they were some of the most successful shows in history
The greatest weakness of later GOT seasons was when they were left with no material to adapt, so they started putting the most important characters in unsolvable situations and still surviving, which killed all kinds of tension and exposed the plot armor clear as day. Until then, the characters that could survive were rarely put at the harshest of situations and could plausibly survive, often with the help of someone else. Characters that made stupid decisions were punished, and even those who made clever ones were still at the mercy of the machinations of others. It was masterfully-crafted political intrigue.
@@Karanthaneos This is a misconception about GOT, btw. There's plenty of material after season 4 that could've been adapted, and not to mention that so many of the magical aspects of the books were cut as early on as season 2. The showrunners just chose to not adapt the entirety of book 4 and book 5, and in retrospect, it was pretty obvious that the creators; David & Dan, were only interested in adapting ASOIAF to reach the red wedding, and had a fuck all attitude after completing book 3.
I think Stranger Things suffers from the same infliction that is haunting most of big media these days:
They don’t know how to or when to END. No sequels, no “origin story” rehashes. Done. Finito. Completed.
And then we as the audience can’t truly get invested in the story because the ending is never gonna happen, or even worse, is hot dog water.
I think that the creators of lost explained it as "essentially what were doing was flying a plane from place A to landing B but the network didn't want the plane to land so we keep circling landing B but at some point we will run out of fuel"
They also have to deal with the eternal question of "make a good self contained show and risk it getting an unnecessary sequel" or "make a show with and ambiguous/sequel bait ending and risk not getting renewed for a second season and disappointing your audience"
@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access it’s ironic because as a non-watcher, I’ve acknowledged how Netflix has so many other shows they care less about than Stranger Things who have their storylines across multiple seasons planned out but they get cancelled anyway.
*Cough* TWD *Cough*
My biggest issue is that show stakes keep getting bigger but the cast keeps staying the same teenagers that makes it impossible to take seriously when they’re defeating some world ending monster that somehow just can’t manage to defeat the quirky token club
Season 5 is supposed to be the final season
I will forever be grateful for this show bringing winona ryder back to the screens. She was a childhood icon of mine (Heathers, Dracula, Beetlejuice, Girl Interrupted) and she was done so dirty for so many years. I will also never get over the fact that she didn’t win an Emmy for S1. She was so damn good.
She shoplifted and was cancelled. Seems unfair.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 meanwhile a lot of actors and male directors are exposed being a predator, harasser, and/or groomer and still get jobs
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396
I can name off people in Hollywood who did much worst shit then stealing.
She’s a kleptomaniac look it up
@@catleaxmas5416
Victor Salva, Roman Polanski, Bryan Singer, Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, Ezra Miller, etc.
I thought the ending to Season 1 was beyond brilliant, and DESPERATELY hoped they'd anthologize the series from there. Finding out that that's what they *wanted* to do, but Netflix pushed them to continue the S1 story breaks my heart...
Exactly. S1 is top tier. Instill rewatch. I remeber being very excited for the anthology but then it devolved…
That explains the writing after season 1 felt off
I’m still sad we didn’t get a slasher season of stranger things
The decision to not make it an anthology was way before the production of Season One.
Agreed, it's the only season I bought on DVD. Love watching it on its own. The rest of the show just never recaptured the same feel.
Season 4 is a prime example of people confusing emotionally resonating with something with really good writing. Every time I've seen someone gush about it, they've talked about how much the characters mean to them or how they cried at a scene or how this is their favorite show but never actually addressing any of the flaws, fluctuations or narrative choices the show made past S1. I can love a character and independently acknowledge whether they're well or poorly written or a morally just or bankrupt person, but a lot of online discourse lately absolutely rejects that sort of nuance.
that is so accurate like when i first watched s4 i absolutly loved it but with some perspective it came to be my least favorite season
i think the fact that we had been waiting for the show and all the hype also really played into ppl loving s4 as much as they do
I totally agree. S4 was really messy and downright terrible at times. It also had really cool, emotionally resonant moments.
Thats why tearjerkers get a crap ton of praise despite most of them having piss poor writing
I agree with the first season being a perfect iconic 8 hours of television. Will disappearance made the atmosphere so good and Joyce doing everything to find her son. Her acting, her fear and determination was such good writing and she became my favorite character of the first season.
And there's actually mystery and it ends with mystery, I didn't even want to watch s2 after finishing the first season.
I loved the latest season tho it was so creepy
I mean its Winona FUCKING Ryder ofc her acting is amazing
Same! Winona did an amazing job portraying the character emotions, I love her.
I remember how the idea with the christmas lights and the alphabet absolutely blew my tiny fucking mind and I just HAD to let everyone know how cool this show was. It's just a shadow of its former self now by season 4.
Season 2 gave us my favorite meme of the series: Steve Harrington, the best dang teenage single mom Hawkins has ever seen
I like to think Stranger Things is still following the old 80s movie model of unnecessary sequels overexplaining the lore
That and the thing about Stephen King being notoriously bad at writing endings.
@@wincent.. also, Stephen King coming up with horror premises with great character drama potential and instead using it to overexplain the lore.
Does it have gays
Indanely weird wuestion I KNOW but i need to know whether or not i can play it on the big tv without my siblings being like "wtf"
@Twiddle_things season 3 has a character who comes out as a Lesbian and season 4 shows her obviously crushing on a girl
@@Twiddle_things normalize being gay for your siblings
One thing is for sure, in season 1 people actually got scared watching stranger things, never again in later seasons tho
It genuinely saddens me that if you took every season, removed everything from the first season , beefed up the new characters and you did some reestructuring, Stranger THings would be a really good anthology show. Just imagine season 4 if it was only about eddie, chrissie and the blond bad guy
Or an anthology show ala american horror story where there are references to past seasons and then it all crescendos of coming together in the last season
This is exaclty what was i'm thinking! Even season 3 could have been saved with this, even if it continued to be considered the weakest, at least it would just be an isolated experimental move, instead of the abrupt change in tone and character assassination that actually happened.
I think this may have sort of been the plan, based on pieces together clues from interviews and the show. Anthology series following different number kids from the institute. They tried to make it happen as a one-off with 8, and Vecna is season 4. Would have been way better. Except for 8. She was dreadful
@@ikimeht They could have had their cake and ate it too. 4 season anthology and 5th season where all the characters come together to take down whatever? Would have been so hype.
eddie is so fvcking overrated
per your point of 'give Jonathan an emotional arc with his brother and then kill him off,' i'll never understand why his season 4 plot line was Stoner(TM) and Will's was 'guy who is there' when Eleven has just been brought into their family and is being bullied at school. like, i think it could've been really impactful to actually explore Jonathan and Will growing to accept Eleven as their sister. and, as you mentioned, Will isn't really a fighter, so when Eleven is being bullied, it makes sense for him to be more passive. but he could tell Jonathan! Or does Jonathan just not care??? he was an outcast in school too! that could have been the starting point for their arcs that season and would tie them more closely to whatever Eleven gets up to - Jonathan's looked after his brother in the past, now he's looking after his new sister, and then he has to protect them throughout the season when things start gearing up
Eleven living with the Byers was completely wasted in S4 and it really is too bad.
Another thing that should’ve been explored but didn’t because we need the stupid love triangle to come back (even though Steve last season was his own person. Also why do they think he always needs to be in a relationship?)
this!!!! wow
After getting along with popular kids like Nancy and Steve, I feel like they could've used the Byers moving to California as an opportunity to show growth in Jonathan and Will. I liked that they gave Jonathan a friend, but they could've made it less of an attempt at comedic relief and show that Jonathan now knows how to connect with people. Will could still be struggling with growing up at the same pace as the kids around him, but he knows how to make friends and people clearly liked him to an extent at his new school. They could've stepped up to guide Eleven, this time being the ones to "save" her from situations like being embarrassed, being bullied, etc.
@CatOKelley stop being reasonable with your on point fantastic arc that we'll never see.
I would've been okay with Stranger Things being one season. The first season was lightning in a bottle and the more they kept going, the more it lost its luster. The other seasons were *fine* but they honestly couldn't top the first season. I'm sorry.
Same I’ve only seen the first season and I pretend the last three don’t exist 😭
The only good thing about the later seasons was Dart - and he died so. I dipped out of the show when Dart died and never looked back.
Agreed, it was apparently supposed to be an anthology series, but the Duffers liked working with the cast members too much. It lost the magic that had made it special by adding new characters.
Ohh yeah. I absolutely loved the complete mystery S1 was and that it was just one such monster from a spooky world they knew little about. I loved how the boy and his mum communicated with the lights. I also loved that El was just a random little mishap. Something unplanned and I love that the Cold War was just mentioned in passing for world building, but was not that important at all. Then all the other "Elevens" started getting introduced and it was less of a "Oops.", but "We planned this.". The monsters were more familiarized to us and became less of a horror mystery and more of an action flick. Of course I was okay with all this, but in the end the Russians recreated a portal and that was where I peaced out.
I feel so validated reading this. I remember telling people I hope the show is an anthology series before the second season was even announced. The show was really good at revealing a mystery and by the end of the first season there were no real mysteries to unravel anymore unless they made more up.
Eggos are frozen waffles by Kellog's. 11 isn't mispronouncing the word egg, she just likes waffles.I don't know how you could have missed that.
fr its the trademark
I had to look up what they were when watching stranger things. Not every country has them.
@@thedrunkenelf My country doesn't have them either but there are several scenes in the series that show people eating them and refering to them as Eggos, their packaging is also often featured in both back- and foreground as product placement. It's really not that difficult to realise that they mean something other than actualy eggs when they say 'Eggo' at least. But I agree, I had to look up what they are exactly too. Which took like one minute and is something the video maker could have done too to realise he made a mistake and now looks a bit silly. I don't even disagree with the rest of the video, it's just this one detail I think is weird to point out when it's his lack of observational skills that is the problem.
The cereal is pretty good too
i can’t believe the writers went ‘we need a socially outcast wierd character who would easily be scapegoated by a conservative christian town who has a relationship with the main bunch of teenagers, specifically dustin and has a good dynamic with steve’ and decided to make a WHOLE NEW CHARACTER instead of just using robin??
I get where your coming from but it's also much easier and realistic to scapegoat someone who at the time 1. Plays DnD 2. Likes Metal 3. Dresses like someone who does not fit with conservative values (wears a shirt that says HELLFIRE on it, wears earrings, uses rings (not wedding) and has long hair similar to a hair metal band which were also ostracized by such groups at the time)
Then it is to scapegoat a petite and socially awkward girl
Robin was passing as a straight person, Eddy stood out distinctly as against the social norm
@@carlos8361 yeah i fully see where your coming from, which is also why i think the writers did what they did, but we don’t know anything about robin’s general life at school or home during season 3 really, she never says anything that implies she couldn’t like those things, and they have full control over the story they’re telling. i don’t think the manhunt would have worked the same because i don’t think a town would be as down to send a group of teenage boys to murder a girl lol, but again, they could just… write a slightly different story :P
They were both paying homage to D&D being caught up in the Satanic Panic, and putting a heavier focus on one of the show's biggest inspirations (D&D). Robin got more spotlight this season too, so not sure why you're complaining. The series always introduced new characters that quickly became favorites, often just to get killed off.
I think they were just hell bent on a West Memphis Three reference
The worst thing about them not killing off characters is that the very few characters they do kill off are so obvious. Like Eddie, firstly he was a new character that they added which is already an issue cause they won't kill any main ones, but secondly, they put him into a situation where his entire life is ruined and there's no going back because people think he's a murderer. They very much could have used this size of role for one of their already established characters, like johnathon.
Someone else mentioned that, since they made Jonathan a stoner, he would have been a shoe-in for the role of the person Chrissy goes to for drugs.
Plus they fumbled the sacrificing moment for him! We ended up loving him and he got his big, crazy, guitar playing moment. So a good story would either have him dying right there during the last moments of his solo or due to some fundamental fuck-up moments afterwards. But instead they let him get away, get within literal reaching distance of complete safety, only to have him go “actually lemme go outside for… reason…” and then get killed.
I am sure that it was more nuanced than I remember it being but even sitting on the couch with my family watching it when it first dropped, all of us went “wait… what?” When he turned back and died.
I forgot how much I hated Hopper in S3. Like I legit found his character lowkey scary in that season, he made me uncomfortable to watch his scenes. I didn't understand what possessed them to do that to his character.
Yeah I hated his character and wanted him to die 😬
s3 is honestly my least favorite season because of how diabolical they made hopper’s character… still loved joyce in s3 but they paired her up with a crazy ooc hopper and i always find myself skipping their scenes because i can’t stand him. it’s wild to me that people who love s3/say it’s their favorite season also really love s3 hopper (or s3 joyce/hopper) because they did him so dirty.
He was the white male character and was too likable, over shadowing the DEI characters that the show runners cared more about
@rezai7 please go outside
@@rezai7 No
The rant about Murray is exactly how I feel about Robin. She annoys me so much. I hate the long winded word vomit
I feel like there are mostly two fates a tv show can have these days. You either get cancelled after one or two seasons or you see yourself become really fucking bad.
No I am not angry at the umbrella academy finale
This also applies to most movies. Either get only one good movie or get lost in endless sequels and spin offs that ruin what made that movie so good.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
I’ll never get over not getting a second season of The society or IANOWT 😫
Agreed. There are gems inbetween that tell a complete story and know when to quit (Dark and Fleabag being prime examples), but damn, they've really become the exception.
TUA should've ended in s2 fr
I distinctly remember seeing Cosmonaut talk about how he thought this show was gonna be an anthology, and the fact that I have to live with that what if kills me
Sorta like season long episodes of the twilight zones?
he made some good points
@@airplanes_aren.t_realPretty much. Each season could focus on a new cast, new plot, new conflict
@@hannahw7023 I just realized that they could have made the entire show about the eleven "secret projects" the government made and have each season be about how the characters flee the facility and try to use their powers in order for them to get ahead
@@airplanes_aren.t_realA spinoff like that could still be possible
As much as I like long series, I'm so grateful that for example Queen's Gambit is only one season long. It's crazy that we're on a point where we hope a series stays short
Not when there’s merchandise money to be made!
@@luiiiandmovieee I actually think you could have gotten at least one more year of Queen’s Gambit. Beth Harmon was kind of a faux Bobby Fischer era chess player in the 1960s. And I think the logical next step would be to do a show about Beth as a faux Garry Kasparov era player in the 1980s/1990s. You do a season where 45 year old Beth Harmon has to face a chess computer like Kasparov vs Deep Blue. Yes, she has a complete character arc already, but thus concept is jumping her so far into the future that you can make everything new and as related or unrelated to the past as you want. It could be a soft reboot that doesn’t even require you to have seen the original
I’ve actually found myself gravitating to a lot of Korean tv shows because they’re often just 1 season, and I know I will get a complete realised story. No ending on a cliffhanger then the show getting cancelled. Just a complete story in 16 episodes. I rarely watch English content now.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396- THIS 😤🤬
The money that can be made from merchandise can end up being the sole reason that writers are forced to make certain story decisions. The studio comes to them & literally makes them change or add things in, so they can attempt to bring in more money. But that can RUIN a show, if it's not done well!
House of the Dragon is suffering from this BIG TIME. The showrunners have completely changed a lot of the main character's fundamental natures on that show, in order for the audience to be more of a 50/50 mixed split. That way, they can hopefully have everybody buying up more "Team Green" or "Team Black" merch & sh*t. Because the fact is:
Had they NOT changed a lot of the characters' natures & just adapted the source material exactly as was written... there'd be a HELLUVA lot more "Team Black" fans. That's how it usually is for those who read the book.
Cuz the source material makes it pretty damn obvious who the vile, cutthroat, oathbreaking usurpers are. There's a reason that about 90% of the fandom who've read the novel, end up being Team Black. But that doesn't make for very good merchandise #s, does it? 😅💰 lol
You can make sooo much more money, if the "Teams" are more evenly split, by making everybody in the story more "equally evil".
They want fans arguing w/each other & wanting to "represent" their favorite sides in the conflict, by buying up tshirts, coffee cups & other paraphernalia, w/their teams colors on it.
But in order to make a 50/50 split work...
They had some characters doing seriously heinous sh*t that they NEVER do in the novel... while giving "passes" to other characters, by showing them doing their evil merely "on accident", or because they misunderstood something. They show the evil that THEY do, as being only unintended snafus... rather than as the deliberate actions of a conniving & bitter person, who's hell bent on gaining status & power for themselves, at the cost of their own family, or of the whole realm. It's terrible tbh.
And to think... people actually thought the biggest issue w/the show was that they hired Black people to play some of the characters in it. 🙃💀 LMAOOO See where bigotry gets folks?
They had all the racists in a tizzy at the mere IDEA that a successful show would dare to make such a powerful & rich family BLACK **gasp** instead of worrying about how the showrunners would handle those characters, or... the trajectory of the story in general, ffs.
And now, already, in just 2 seasons...
The show has majorly pissed people off, and made everybody worried about where the show is headed. The color of the skin of the actors playing in some roles, was NEVER a real issue!
That changed nothing about their character's natures, story progression, skill set, power or station in life. But the WRITING sure as hell did.
But just to be able to sell more merch... they got ½ of the show fandom rooting for a drunk, rapey, inept loser to be the king. 🤦🏻♀️😒 Great.
Hope it was worth it.
i agree but i mean the queens gambit was always going to be a limited series no matter what. i know the duffers went into st wanting it to be a limited series but it was never marketed as such, never labeled as one like all limited series on netflix usually are, so thats a different case.
I think it would have made sense for Johnathan to sacrifice himself to the mindflayer instead of Billy. Stakes would be high, he would be a hero, Will, Joyce, and Nancy’s grief and fury would be a driving motivation to defeat the big bad. Billy could still die in S3 driving Max’s plot in S4.
It's pretty cool to hear the editors called out. Dean Zimmerman is my cousin, ironically he is a twin too (his brother Danny is also an editor, and they got into it thru their father, my uncle who has been an editor for like 5 decades, Don Zimmerman, however he has been battling cancer for roughly 3 years now). But definitely glad to hear my cousin is getting some much deserved love for his work.
Say WHAT?
This is so sweet! Sending appreciation and well-wishes to the Zimmerman lads (the Zimmermen?)
Editors don’t get enough credit. Shows and movies literally wouldn’t be possible without them.
Sure, Janet.
@@ParadiseAndGin that’s not even the quote… embarrassing lmao
Something I disliked about stranger things was how it went from a story happening in the 80s to a show acting like it came out in the 80s
It went from a story taking place in the 80s, to callbacks to movies, and fashion, and the worst of all the Russianplot
God the russian plot pisses me off so bad
Season 3 and then on was so gimmicky 🤣
It’s so annoying too when people say “well we were all sacred of the Russians in the 80s.” Just because something happened in the 80s doesn’t mean it needs to be in this show if it doesn’t fit the tone. The Iran Contra scandal happened in the 80s and you don’t see the show bringing that up that because it wouldn’t fit
The Russian plot could have been done well, but it wasn’t. If in S2 the way the mindflayer got it was a portal at a Soviet lab, and it traveled a long way on a bunch of ships because it needed Will for something you’d still get the best parts of the Soviet plot line, none of the billion dollar lab made in the US by Russians staffed solely by Russians who speak Russian in a small US town that somehow hasn’t noticed, and you could add in some political intrigue with the the US trying to convince the USSR to stop the experiments but being unwilling to state why they should.
Badda bing badda boom, there’s your significantly less bad Soviet plotline.
One detail that I find really annoying about 011, is the way her powers manifest in later seasons compared to season 1.
In season 1, when she uses her powers, she stares or makes quick abrupt movements, it feels earie and helps with the vibe of the show.
From season 2 onwards however, she very often outstretches her arm to channel her power and it just feels wrong to me. It doesn't give that "strange power from supernatural source" vibe anymore, it feels more like a superpower you'd see in a hero comic book.
Every time I see her channel her power by outstretching her arm, I get so annoyed.
exactly! it was a really unique representation of 'telekenisis'-like abilities that genuinely felt like she was doing stuff purely with her mind,,, but now its just the exact same as every other telekinetic hero that moves stuff with their hands- even though the whole point of that kind of power is to not need hands 😭
Also can't believe I forgot to mention this, but the screaming when using her power has also significantly reduced the creepy vibe of her power. It just feels much more thematic when she uses her power in silence.
FINALLY someone said it! Her arm thing encapsulates what went wrong with ST. Instead of a mysterious, never-see-it-coming type power it always culminates in her stretching her arms out and screaming… like. Always.
When she did that arm thing with Angela i felt physically ill 😭
011 lol
@@bobthebox2993 Eh...I disagree about that it really doesn't reduce it and didn't she do that in season 1 too?
The concept was wrong. It should've been a series about the upside down in several points in time each season, changing cast and locations, and leaning more on the eldritch horror of the series.
But the young cast was a fan-favorite, so we were stuck in Hawkins in the 80's for the entire series
Yeah, exploring different stories at different points in time with a different cast would've been amazing
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp And with different horror tropes depending on the era
I've always hated this unwritten rule that every season of a TV show needs to have a bigger, badder villain than the last one. I don't care for it hat at all because it becomes very unbelievable very quickly.
The reason why this show is so jarring to me is because you see the cast grow SO fast in the smallest amount of seasons a show usually gives for this level of growth. So they're always compensating, saying the kids are younger than they actually are and do time skips. But to do five seasons in 9 years is kind of boggling.
It's wild seeing Millie Bobby Brown began this popular show at 12 years old. Now she's 20 years of age and is married to *Jon Bon Jovi's son.*
I need to sit down and process.
@@liamphibia wait what??? Oh god... so much time has passed.
older people have played younger roles for decades. majority of the kids are in the age range to still be able to pass as the age they’re playing. they had 30 years playing high schoolers in scary movie and there has never been a complaint about that . who cares.
@@jourdanmadeitI think the complaint is more about how we see the 12 year olds playing actual 12 year olds in season one, and all of a sudden s3, set two years (I think) after s1, they look like 20 year olds but are still in middle/starting high school. Granted the pandemic did cause a big gap, but they could’ve definitely just said there was a bigger time skip to accommodate for the growth of the main cast.
Personally seeing the kids graduating high school and/or starting college by its later seasons means it grows with the bulk of the show’s audience AND its actors, which keeps you even more connected to the characters.
honestly it doesn't bother me a lot that they are older than their characters now because they're still close to the character's age in comparison to most other actors. Many teeangers are played by actors 10 years older (vampire diaries, pretty little liars etc) so stranger things really isn't an outstanding example
Can we talk about how the show became obnoxiously obsessed with 80s nostalgia around the 3rd season?
The time period is supposed to be background radiation to the show, not completely overtake it.
It’s pretty sad. Guess they saw all of the excited nostalgia posts pointing out all of the references and leaned into it for security.
I really liked the Starcourt Mall trailer for S3 though. That was fun
The show was always an 80s nostalgia show
@@officialmonarchmusic Season 1 of Stranger Things was basically a dozen iconic 80s movies put into a blender with an extreme reference for the 80s aesthetic, you could not set this show in any other time period and it work the same.
People complaining that "it's just 80s nostalgia now" are trying to articulate the criticism that the actual story of the show has lost them, the nostalgia is all they see now because they don't care about the story anymore, but the nostalgia was always there, even in the parts everyone agrees was good
good raised point
What’s weird is that Nancy and Mike never have sibling moments it’s like there’s not even related
I still think Stranger things should have been an anthology series focusing on new characters in new decades every season.
I really thought the show was going to do that… but what I think killed that vision was when the show runners saw that people looooved the eighties aesthetic. That was a huge part of the hype for the first season, and they maybe thought that making it into an anthology and no longer in the eighties would kill the show.
Imagine what they could have done with the 90s, the 00s, the 70s or 60s! I think the Duffer brothers were inspired for the 1st season but was kind of forced to continue due to its success.. and then they cant even work on what they had envisioned/planned (the anthology) because of pressure to continue riding the 80s wave. I really would have liked to see the different decades...
We would be have a very different conversation about the show’s failure if it did that, and less of us would be involved because it wouldn’t be successful, because that’s a bad idea.
This show was popular because of its characters. They were not going to reliably recapture that within something that can maintain the Stranger Things brand
With all the same actors like The Flanaverse. I would have been way into that
At this point it basically is with all the old ones reversing in character arcs or doing nothing so that the new ones can shine lmao. The only real constant is Eleven yelling.
I'd love if you made a similar video about the decline of "The Umbrella Academy." It started off strongly, but by the end, the characters were all out of character, especially Five. Klaus was extremely underutilsed, as was Allison, with her being quickly forgiven for having betrayed her siblings to get her husband and daughter back, Luther was turned into an idiot for comic relief, there were mean spirited fat jokes aimed at Diego, Lila had an unnecessary subplot with Five, they'd forgotten what made the characters likable or relatable, and the ending was incredibly rushed. The only things of interest were the campy villains, who delightfully chewed the scenery.
They did Five so dirty in season 4
I haven't started the last season yet. Is it even worth watching?
I personally only enjoyed season 1, so I’d be all for him talking about UA
@lili-oy1xf I just finished it today and it was a cop out lol
season 4 was literally character assassination for five it's actually sad
Did anyone else notice that literally every subject from the lab had telekinesis except for 008? In season two I thought all of the subjects would have a different skill, since El and Kali did, but in season 4 it seems that all of the numbers that are shown have the same telekinetic power. It's definitely not the show's biggest miss, but I think showing all the different skills of the other subjects would've been interesting to see, since they have clearly given up on keeping the sci fi stuff subtle or mysterious anyways.
I thought we were guing to see all kinds of dantastic powers.
they didnt retcon Kali tho, which was good. she was the first to escape because of her powers.
who cares? forgotten episode and character
@@mavielor7394 they mentioned her in s4, what you smoking?
@@mavielor7394yeah whos kali
40:35 your complaint about the mind flayer's motivations/reasons being unclear is exactly why it was so compelling to me. it's so lovecraftian, this god-like entity with unknown motivations trying to cross over into our dimension. its why i loved it. lovecraft has rarely been portrayed in media, and seeing it in such a good show was hype
Homeboy was a god-tier namer of cats
Millie was 100% right when she said that them (Stranger Things) should be more like GOT and kill characters
It’s not her show though
@@tokkibeanieWell done you pointed out the obvious 😂
@@tokkibeaniethanks for explaining to us such a complicated and confusing information that no one knows while watching the show
She wasn’t the first to say that, a lot of fans were saying it before her lol
Such a boring and awful take.
GOT sucked near the end because they just kept killing off every character. By the end, they had to replace people with just random replacements (since they still needed people for the MCs to interact with).
This was the single most braindead take from MBB
The third song you played definitely sounds like it belongs in Stranger Things. And, yes, the show only continued because Netflix wanted to make more money. If it was only one season, it would've become an untouchable classic.
It sounds like the opener!
The second song was personally my favourite. I can't believe this guy did all of that before ST was even out.
Growing up as a gay kid in the 80's in the midwest I felt a connection to Will's character in Season's 3 and 4.
But the moment I was kinda done with it was when they're in the stoner van, and Will is bawling his eyes out, and Mike who is like A FOOT AWAY doesn't even notice.
Mike, who was the emotional glue of season 1, who was always in tune with his friends has been reduced to nodding like an unaware happy idiot while his former best friend is crashing down mere inches away. What Hopper was to Space Ninja, Mike was to me. And I don't even blame Finn for being checked out.
Right? Mike, leader of the “let’s save our friend from the monster” season 1 party and one of the ones more in tune with Will’s issues afterwards is so blinded by… girlfriend? I guess? That he doesn’t pay attention to his friend in distress when they’re literally stuck in a car together with him crying for god knows how long. So frustrating 💀
And it's not like it's a loud straight pipe 454 custom van, it's a little old i4 VW? (Haven't watched season 4 since it came out)
And this was right after Will made a whole speech about how he's the Heart of the group 💀
Doesn't help that you can tell that the show is too cowardly to explore Will possibly being Gay in the 80s and the height of societal prejudice at the time.
@@NoodleNerd you know the resolution will be
1) will dies “heroically” at the end of the last season for them all to rally around their dead friend, being gay won’t matter at all in this decision
2) suddenly out of nowhere a cute gay boy will turn up into the story- whether or not he survives depends only on if Netflix is aware of how bad killing your gays is
3) Will goes off to college or some nonsense in a happy ending montage and again, we see him staring at a cute boy who looks back and smiles in a way that says “this is the closest to gay rep you’re getting, baybee”
Visually, seasons 1 and 2 looked like the 80s. Season 3 looked like a stylized, modern homage to an 80s music video. It was pretty, but felt really out of place to me.
It’s history repeating itself.. Stranger Things suffers from the same Hollywood virus that turned horror (initially indie) classics into soulless blockbusters with their sequels such as with Alien, Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween. Expanding on already well crafted “small” stories and transforming them into cliches.
Tale as old as time unfortunately 😕
yesss I immediately thought of Alien and how they ruined so much of the lore by over explaining or expanding Ripley's character in a bad way (James Cameron I hate you)
Naaah Aliens slaps. But otherwise yes, true.
I always believed that music being Vecna's kryptonite was an allegory for how listening to music can support mental health. Stranger Things seemed to tie this concept to Vecna targeting individuals with trauma.
The music, the trauma, the particular song (running up that hill), Max pushing everyone away, then remembering the good times and fighting so hard to get back/live... Even Max telling Lucas, I'm still here, I'm still here. Season 4 was basically wholly about depression. 💯
I remember that victims of Vecna were children who were traumatised in some ways (Max after losing Billy, Chrissy was anxious about her parents or there was an abusive situation at home), so music being his cryptonite is kind of rational. music can bring joy to people in depressed states, I guess
And isn't this was she could escape and was harder to kill? Because she was with her friends etc. Weren't the other victims alone/with people who are not close to them? It was a long time ago idk 😅
@@LoraVelevaYeah, I got the impression that it was about having people who care about you pulling you back into the real world
pro tip: if you see a show come out of the gate super hot with a season 1, get a ton of mainstream attention, and immediately be renewed just assume its gonna end up bad and youll probably save yourself some time
I know it’s a totally different case but this made me think of Hazbin Hotel. 💀
It came out this January and is already set to have 3 more seasons. I believe this is what happens with a lot of these more popular shows; they got a lot of attention, higher-ups see that and give them more seasons, expect to profit from it but they end up pulling stuff out of their ass by the end. Even if it’s not the case, immediately giving a show 4 seasons is weird asl
Especially if you can end it at the first season
I liked Murray when he was just a conspiracy theorist with a lucky theory. When they tried to expand him beyond that he failed hard.
max’s character development is chef’s kiss. sadie played her so well. but now im worried what they’ll do with her in s5.
Given that she should be horribly crippled for quite a long time (otherwise, wtf was even the point of showing her injuries), I think they’re going to give her some psychic powers.
If she’s just healed and fine at the start of the next season, that’d be really shitty writing.
Alternatively, if she just spends the entire season in a hospital bed doing nothing, then they might as well have just killed her off.
So, I think there might be some sort of bleeding effect where she absorbed some of Vecna’s powers from the multiple times he attacked her.
She's trans now. That's the only option other than more ginger erasure.
max is cringe and she should have died, her brother and eddie should have lived
They will have an entire subplot where Eleven has to rescue her from the upside down which will cause her to regain consciousness. Calling it now. Tbh they should’ve just killed her off, would’ve been way more impactful than the stupid fakeout death
More like lack thereof character development. She didn’t really develop at all.
The biggest problem for me was the horror factor in the show. Like season 1, they didn’t show the demogorgon unless they absolutely needed to, so they came up with ideas to create tension and the essence of horror, like with Mike and Nancy’s little sister seeing the monster through the wall paper or just having the lights go crazy and then someone is taken or shadows moving around. It wasn’t a lot, but you could feel the eeriness of the scene without seeing the big bad. Unlike seasons 3 and 4, they frame the whole show around you seeing the monsters instead of having the monster be this villain lurking in the background.
wait, Mike and Nancy have a little sister?
ok that joke about nancy wheeler just being sarah connor is really funny when you consider that linda hamilton is literally joining the show next season 💀
Well, I guess we know who's dying next season then😂