Why Can't Disabled Veterans Fly Space-A to Foreign Countries?
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- Опубліковано 28 гру 2024
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100% P&T Disabled American Veterans are authorized to fly military space-a within CONUS, Hawaii, Alaska and US Territories. Some veterans and organizations are operating under the mistaken belief that they are also authorized to fly to and from foreign destinations. This video seeks to provide clarity and insight into what the regulation actually authorizes.
NOTE ON MILITARY ID
Just a follow up note on this video regarding military ID needed to fly space-a... A veteran who is 100% P&T rated can get a U.S. USID card (military ID card) at any Real-Time Automated Personnel Identification System site. RAPIDS offices are located on military bases, at National Guard armories and at reserve training locations. You will need to go onto your profile at va.gov and print your Benefit Summary and Service Verification Letter. The folks at the RAPIDS office will use that to verify your eligibility for your ID card. They will produce a card for you and eligible dependents. Make sure you take all appropriate documentation for all lawful dependents in need of an ID card.
Here is a link to the official and authoritative source.
DoDI 4515.13: www.esd.whs.mi...
Please reference Page 46, Table 3. Section 47.
If you are eligible to fly Military Space-A, check out my entire Space-A Boot Camp series to get trained and ready for your next adventure!
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#adventure #military #veterans #disabledveteran
I am from California in the central valley. I have contacted my congressman and my senator and I have talk to their staff about seeing if we can resurrect this bill. I’m not sure what will happen. I’m just a lonely veteran trying to do his part, but this is a wonderful platform, and I think if all of us veterans contact are Congressmen or women and or senators from around the nation. Maybe they will see that we desperately need this to be fixed so I am challenging all veterans, call your representatives and senators and let’s try and get this passed
Thanks for your comment!
I TOTALLY, 100% AGREE! By ourselves. we are INeffective and just a snowflake, but together, we are powerful like an avalanche! I often couldn't understand "why not". For example, my closest base is Travis in CA, which takes off to Hickam (CONUS), half way to Asia. If I am already eligible to get on that flight, and the flight continues on to say, Osan or Yakota, why can't I just stay on to the final destination? I have also wanted to reach out to my congressman as well, which I will. Laws are instituted by people but are not set in stone. It can definitely change. I remembered when 100% P&T were not allowed to bring their dependents. But thankfully that got changed. So it can happen. After all, folks like me who are 100% P&T have a lot of ailments. Who would want to travel alone, if you cannot bring your partner or family along?! This is a GREAT platform to collectively come together for this cause.
The original bill submitted to Congress was written to allow 100 percent Disabled Veterans the same privilege as retirees. However Congress changed it before it was signed into law. ✌🏾
It seems to me that if you give up your health while serving the nation, that you should be afforded the same perks as someone who served for 20 years. Many of us have had to sacrifice our future plans as a result of our service injuries. This is especially frustrating living in Hawaii, where a flight to Asia is about the same distance as a flight to California, and a flight to the East Coast of CONUS is considerably farther.
Thank you for stopping by and leaving your comment!
Write to your Congressman/woman and press for change. I will. That's the ONLY way is when we all press for changes!
Hey Cliff... thanks 4 clarifying the military hop criteria for 100% T&P. I've been in the system 4 nearly 35 years and the VA is still playing "Run and catch up" game. "Don't have enough money for this, don't have enough money for that... but we'll get there." 😂 I received reports from VAOIG daily. If all the money that's stolen was recovered and vested back into the system... Veterans would be living like KINGS!! 😅 And though the VSOs have their place, they often discrimately choose how well they'll represent a Veteran. REMEMBER- the VSOs work under the same roof as the VA and are trained by them. SO, when the VA decides, "Yeah... we need to back off this particular case"...the VSO goes along ( Of course, this occurs behind closed doors). I represented myself for 100% T&P, and even more... later down the road. I can't begin to tell you how many letters I've written over the years. I realize this is a digression but it's important that a Veteran who's VLogging learns about others' experiences. Not only the abuses I experienced, but the abuses I've witnessed are unnerving. Now, itscone to the point that, if I don't like or agree with a doctor or aprn... I fire them on the spot. No yelling, no argument... just tell them, point blank, "You're fired." Then I walk to the front desk and ask for a new provider and reschedule. Sometimes, I dont even bother with the patient advocate. They're similar to the VSOs- pick and choose their battles. Just the way it is. I certainly empathize with younger Veterans trying to navigate the system. Many if them just give up. They really are ENTITLED to so much... and 95% have no idea. FRUSTRATION is "part" of the reason why the suicide rate among Veteran is so high.😢 Anyway... thanks 4 the 411 on the "Space- a" program.
Henry, thank you for stopping by my channel and for your comments and observations. I can certainly appreciate the challenge. You have experience with the VA. Hope you have an opportunity to take advantage of space a travel. Thanks again!
Good luck with that.😂
I couldn't have said it any better.
Hey everyone, once again, great video. I was a C-17 Loadmaster out of March ARB, Riverside, Ca. (retired 2019). If anyone has a question about the flying portion of the event, feel free to reach out to me. Talk to your terminal personnel, ask your aircrews questions. We are all in this together. READ, INVESTIGATE, & COMMUNICATE. ~ Sergio
Question for you, I am upgrading the cameraware that I use and I should be gaining the ability to do remote interviews. Would you be willing to collaborate and be featured on a video discussing your unique experiences as a C-17 Loadmaster, March ARB and Space-A travel in general. If so, we can talk details. I think you would bring a great perspective on the subject and provide value to other veteran travelers. Let me know.
Im glad you posted this video im in the air force currently working under hickam amc alot of passengers don't know of the regulations we have to follow and this can help provide clarity as to why we occasionally have to deny a passengers travel very useful information 👍
Hey glad to be of help! Thank you for your comment and for supporting the channel! Awesome assignment that you have there!
Cliff I’ve travel the PE several times from Travis to Hawaii I’ve enjoyed them and the meals are actually pretty good. Thanks for sharing ✌🏾
Thank you for your comment and for supporting the channel!
Been wondering about the 100% and dependent travel. Some sites says yes and others veteran only. Your the first to confirm, at least on video, that dependents of t&p can travel👍
Thank you for the comment and for supporting the channel!
@@CliffWagner could you answer a question regarding transit in Space A which I couldn’t find anywhere else. If you were taking a flight that had a layover, let’s say, Travis through Hawaii then Japan. Would you have to do roll call in Hawaii if your finally destination from Travis was Japan? Do you set the flight Travis to Hawaii then another one for Hawaii to Japan?
@@jayb.9079 If Passenger Terminal personel manifest you through the final destination. Here is a link to a more detailed answer: www.spacea.net/faq/manifested-through
Cliff my brother you are a genius about Space A travel. I’ve traveled a lot on Space A out of Travis. My preferred destination is Hickam which I never have a problem getting there or back. Thanks for sharing your videos I really enjoy them. I’m a Space A junky 😂✌🏾.
I love Space A too! Hoping to get in some miles this year after PCS season cools down,
Thank you Sir!
Thank you for supporting the channel brother!
Great video, straight forward and to the point. For my retirees who are special cases, don't be shy. Share your thoughts and examples. Share the knowledge with my military brothers.
Thanks again!
Good video, thanks! Music is distracting.
Noted! Thanks!
We need to lobby Morgan Luttrell, our senators, etc, via Twitter, email etc to add OCONUS. My sons dream is to go to a Real Madrid game. Charleston to Rota would make that happen. This benefit matters so much for my wife and I retirement. Keep this issue on the radar!
Thanks!
Good info. I'm a 100% p&t vet that lives in the Philippines with my wife and 2 year old son (wife is from here) and I could not find info on this. I heard about it but could not find info on it. Question, if I got to Guam could I use it to get stateside?
Yes - absolutely. And if they have military ID, your lawful dependents can fly with you.
You sure can…I’ve used Patriot Express from Andersen AFB to SeaTac….JUST DONT GET STUCK THERE IN GUAM…it’s no joke expensive trying to fly commercial to mainland US. 100 PT too😊
@@ThuyPham-lr5dc yep, doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense why it would cost over $1k to fly from Guam to CA and only $400-500 from Philippines. I was looking at flying out of Guam but the roll call doesn’t seem to update outside of Japan despite showing flights to Hawaii. So not sure if they’re just not posting the flights to Hawaii. It would make it so much easier to get stateside from Hawaii to CA.
@@jayb.9079 check out the monthly Patriot Express run..goes about every two weeks and comes back to Guam about the same. Just remember to sign up early beforehand or you’ll face Cat 6 competition. I got out easily on the PE…also check the 72hr schedule..Hickam pops up a few times every week.
IAW DoDI 4515.13, Table 3:
If you look at the 72 hour and 30 schedules for Japan, from Sea-Tac there is always empty seats. Contact your congress people
From what I understand it is not an available seats issue, rather, it is an issue with the status of forces agreements with the host nations.
@@CliffWagner I understand that but retirees who probably did more damage than most of us can go...but not us?
Point of clarification. Status of Forces Agreements only address jurisdiction of U.S. military personnel present in a country under the authority of the Secretary of Defense (title 10). This does not apply to retirees or even serving members on something like vacation / on a tourist visa. There are two documents you need to review before going to any foreign country outside of military orders and those the Foreign Clearance Guide and the State Department travel advisory page for that country.
The FCG delineates the diplomatic protections of all U.S. citizens by category, like title 10 active duty, title 10 government civilian, service member on leave, tourist, etc.
We do not have SOFAs with every country-even those we have military flights into. The FCG will spell out what passport and visa requirements may exist and what customs procedures may look like, as well as which country’s jail you may spend the rest of your days in if you get into a bar fight or get into a minor fender bender.
Dang it… I meant to say title 10 is SecDef, not SecState, which would be title 22.
Thank you for your input.
Thanks.
Yes, after a bit of research on SOFA, you are absolutely right. I thought a port-of-entry issue may be the reason they don't allow 100% P&T access to Space-A abroad (no customs agent to stamp your passport on base). However, how does this explain why Retiree's have access to Space-A abroad for leisure but P&T don'y have this same access to Space-A abroad for leisure?
Both categories, as civilians have a DOD ID's. Retiree's don't get a SOFA card, or stamp, correct?? If not, what is the issue that is distinct to not allowing P&T veteran's flying to foreign countries? I want to better understand the situation so I can more effectively communicate with my Representative.
I’m still missing WHY they can’t travel to foreign areas? I got that the reg says they can’t, but what’s behind that? What explains it?
Jonathan, the explanation is that Congress only approved disabled veterans to fly CONUS, HI, AK and US Territories. That is the answer.
@@CliffWagner Thanks, Cliff. I’m looking for their rationale why MilAir can accommodate them on some flights and not others. Congress drew a line there for 100% only; but why?
Jonathan, as outlined in the video Congressman Gus Bilirakis (R-Florida) was the author of HR 935 back in 2017. He is still in the House of Representatives. I will reach out to his office tomorrow and see if I can talk to his Legislative Director/Policy Director to discuss the issue. I will also see if Gus might be willing to do a remote video interview on the subject. Either way, I'll let you know what they have to say and if there are any updates.
@@CliffWagner Thanks! I’m particularly interested in this topic as I have friends who are 100% disabled, including a guy on our nonprofit’s board, and I travel with him some.
any updates on the matter? @@CliffWagner
Can you imagine the CHAOS ?!? lol.
Yes - thanks!
I will never use space available. I don’t even like to go on a military facilities. I was wounded spent a year in the hospital when I was discharged, I was discharged with 10%. My 10% went up to 100% over the last 30 years. I’m only 100% disabled not medically retired although I was discharged medically. All my injuries are combat related.
Thanks for checking in.
Why are you here then?
My interpretation is that a 100% disabled vet can fly OCONUS if they are retired. (Table 3, Page 43, Item 37). Conversely, if you’re 100% disabled, and NOT retired, you can’t fly OCONUS. (Table 3, Page 45, Item 47).
Im a knuckle dragger so maybe I’m wrong?
You are correct. If you are retired, there is no point discussing disabled status. Your eligibility is based on your retired status that allows you greater geographic options.
I was interested in taking my family of four to Hawaii, I live in San Antonio Texas, what steps do I need to take to make it happen? I’m 100% p&t veteran, thanks
Do you and your eligible dependents who require a U.S. USID (Military ID) have one? See next note...
A veteran who is 100% P&T rated can get a U.S. USID card (military ID card) at any Real-Time Automated Personnel Identification System site. RAPIDS offices are located on military bases, at National Guard armories and at reserve training locations. You will need to go onto your profile at va.gov and print your Benefit Summary and Service Verification Letter. The folks at the RAPIDS office will use that to verify your eligibility for your ID card. They will produce a card for you and eligible dependents. Make sure you take all appropriate documentation for all lawful dependents in need of an ID card. Get your ID situation squared away then watch the 4 videos I call "Space-A Boot Camp" they will help you get started planning your trip. Here is a link to the first video in the series: ua-cam.com/video/spPZ_GaInXA/v-deo.html
@@CliffWagner thank you very much
@@CliffWagner yes, my spouse and my 15 year old have one, but I was told by some private working at the id section that my 13 year old had to be age 14 to receive one, is that true?
@@FloresJonners That is my understanding, but if they are in the DEERS System, a passport, or other government ID should work. I would suggest that you call the passenger terminal at Guam and just confirm.
This is super unfortunate and seems incredibly unnecessary. Is there anything thay can be done to adjust tbis mandate?
It has been proposed in legislation in Congress, but has never gotten off the ground. I suspect that someday it will likely happen.
How about: "Holy crap, this is great! I'm glad they thought of us."?
They need to revisit this bill
I agree.
WRITE TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN/WOMAN and request the change. Take the action!
So, I have a home in the Philippines... I don't see much if any cost different than if I were to fly a cheapOOO airline to get there... and not nearly as much ambiguity as flying SpaceA. I might try it once ... just to get the tattoo.
Unfortunately, Space-a to or from the Philippines is not authorized, but certainly could be in the future. For most folks, that leg of the journey is a commercial flight. Best of luck to you and thanks for checking in!
Can a former member who is 100% disabled P&T but retired (6 years active and 14 years air guard) travel internationally?
Yes, sir, and I did answer this in more detail on the other post.
Makes sense. When you're either retired or 100% P&T you're also considered a civilian and not covered under SOFA for travel to foreign countries. To legally enter a foreign country you would have to enter that country through a legal port of entry and process through their customs and immigration. Congress cannot dictate the entry/exit requirements of a foreign country. We are the only country on earth that doesn't enforce immigration laws.
Thank you for your comment and for supporting the channel!
Yes, after a bit of research on SOFA, you are absolutely right. I thought a port-of-entry issue may be the reason they don't allow 100% P&T access to Space-A abroad (no customs agent to stamp your passport on base). However, how does this explain why Retiree's have access to Space-A abroad for leisure but P&T don'y have this same access to Space-A abroad for leisure?
Both categories, as civilians have a DOD ID's. Retiree's don't get a SOFA card, or stamp, correct?? If not, what is the issue that is distinct to not allowing P&T veteran's flying to foreign countries? I want to better understand the situation so I can more effectively communicate with my Representative.
@@shellynichols593 I'm not sure if retirees can fly space A to foreign bases unless they only plan on visiting relatives assigned to that base without leaving the base. How could they leave that base to travel inside the foreign country without processing through that country's immigration? If they were picked up for a traffic violation with no record of lawful entry they could be charged with espionage. I'm just letting my imagination run wild here because I really don't know. I left the service in 1970 so I'm sure all the rules have been changed many times since then. I only served one enlistment but have been rated at 100% T&P since 2012. Yes, service connected disabilities do get worse over time. I've never considered space A as an option even for domestic travel because at my age getting bumped from a military flight and sitting in a ready room for a week waiting for an available flight just won't work. I've flown space A while on active duty and sitting in a cargo net in the back of a C-130 for 12 hours is not a good way to save money unless you're a broke 20 year old with no other options. Back in those days all you had to do was show them a military ID and ask if they had space for you on that flight. In Vietnam you didn't even have to show an ID if you were in uniform I was stuck at an Army base in Phu Bai and went to the flight line and asked if anything was going to Marble Mountain in Da Nang and the guy behind the desk pointed at a group of UH-1 helicopters and said yeah, those guys are. I ran over and shouted at the door gunner "Da Nang?" and he waved at me to come on and jump in. It was only a 10 minute flight and a lot safer than trying to thumb a ride in truck over the mountain.
What about medical retirement?
Medically retired veterans enjoy the exact same Space-A privileges as as any other military retiree. They may fly ANYWHERE Space-A is allowed and be accompanied by their lawful dependents.
@@CliffWagner well I guess I have to take the wife on the Europe tour now lol
@@williambetz8540 Absolutely, hope you have a blast!
What about from Foreign like Philippines I would love to be able to fly out of the Philippines m, and be most happy to pay from Guam or Hawaii back to Philippines.
John, I do suspect that the increasing military cooperation between the Philippines and US governments is likely going to lead to the return of space-a flights into and out of the Philippines, but I have no idea if 100% Disabled veterans will ever be authorized foreign travel.
I'm 100 percent p&t but I'm also medically retired. Does a medical retirement have the same status as a 20 year retirement with Space A?
Short answer yes. For space a purposes, there is no difference between a medical retiree and a 20/30 year retiree. Retired is retired. I recommend that you NOT discuss your disabled rating because your geographic eligibility is greater as a retiree than as a disabled space a veteran. 100% P&T DAV are limited geographically to CONUS, HI, AK and US Territories, whereas retirees can fly ANYWHERE space a goes. If you bring up both, you will likely confuse passenger terminal personnel. Happy travels!
@@CliffWagner That's awesome! Thanks a lot for your time and help!
Yup. I’m retiring medically next month and they said I can fly space A with the 20 year retirees
Is there anywhere it clearly states that Veterans with TDIU but not P&T can get this benefit? Or just the ID card that allows you access to it?
Not sure if you might have already watched it, but this video identifies the specific section of DOD Instruction 4515.13 that spells out the 100% Permanent and Total requirement. ua-cam.com/video/T4FxWXivJTY/v-deo.html
@@CliffWagner Thanks for that. I was looking at the part of the order which just said "U.S. USID sponsor identification and privilege card for disabled American veterans with “100% DAV” in the affiliation block" but I guess I'm curious if those with TDIU (regular) have that card.
I know the feeling the Only Veterans Medical Clinic outside the US is in Manila, even if you’re 100% no medical services provided unless on FMP Foreign Medical Program which is not accepted here, by most hospitals or local physicians, they claim too long to get paid, thus we have to pay for all services surgeries etc out of pocket first then try to get reimbursed for our money back. And we have no FMP Representative here and there is 50,000 Veterans living on the many Islands in Philippines. Many letters and emails sent to Congressman, Senators, VA, and Veterans organizations who state no budget for Veterans living overseas except service connected injuries, but we cant get local facilities to accept Foreign Medical Program. Any have advice,?except leave your Philippine family and move back to US
Thanks for your comment!
So WHY? Don't tell the rules. Why not?
As I said in the video, I contacted the office of congressman, Gus Bilirakus who authored HR 936 as I discussed in the video. His staff would not discuss the background as to why the bill died in committee. It is my understanding, that the issue of foreign travel for disabled vets is a function of the status of forces agreements in place with the foreign countries where we have military bases. Renegotiating those SOFA agreements is not something. The DOD or state department is prepared to take on in order to advance this issue.
👍
Thanks!
I llove the knife hand throughout the video
Glad you approve - thanks for supporting the channel! - Cliff
Thanks so much!
If I’m in a foreign country ( Germany ), can I catch space A back into the US?
Are you a retired veteran?
Not totally true the confusion on this is that 100% disable and 100% retired disable.
You are correct 100% disable personnel that is not retired can not fly overseas.
But 100% retired disable veterans can fly with there qualified family.
I called and asked about this very thing because of what I heard. That was told to me by there head at the term-Mack in Seattle.
I hope this help people out.
Under the regulation, DOD instruction, 4515.13 all classes of eligible veterans, who are eligible to fly space a, are eligible to fly with their qualifying dependents under the regulation. Eligible dependents may only fly with the qualifying veteran, and are subject to the same geographic limitations of the veteran based on the qualifying veterans space a eligibility.
I think you need to qualify that. Those who are 100% disabled AND retired CAN fly to foreign territories 😀
A retired service member is flying space-a based upon their eligibility as a retiree. It has nothing to do with their disability status. A veteran who is 100% P&T is flying based upon their eligibility which is established by way of their disability status. They are restricted from flying to foreign destinations, a retiree is not, but the eligibility is unrelated one to the other as they are separate categories.
@@CliffWagner I’m both that’s why I mentioned it.
Some of the Admind, in some of the Facebook Spa e A groups are total arse holes.
True enough, military groups on Facebook can be a little prickly.
The reason why this isn't from me so don't get mad at me but if you are 100% disabled you should be receiving 100% disability pay traveling space A may or could be a discomfort for someone disabled and your pay should offset this so you should be able to fly a civilian flight that is set up for someone disabled remember these military planes or not setup to handle disabled people unless it's a medivac flight
Thanks for your input.
There are many diffrent types of disabilities, for many of them the discomfort of a cargo net seat would not be a problem.
Even when I was in my 20's I never enjoyed sitting in a cargo net in the back of a C-130 for 12 hours with my fingers in my ears.
Im 100pc p/t but dont travel anymore but think i take my chances on a military plane over civilian these days simply due to alot of the stupid stuff people do these days.Rather not be paniced by an idiot vs a rough ride on a military plane myself