Before we filmed this video we had several people message us telling us they had been hurt or surprised by the art in this game. That they or someone who was important to them was made to feel uncomfortable by it, and gave us examples. It’s important to us that if you are thinking about going out and buying this game after watching us have a lot of fun with it, that you don’t then take it home and unintentionally hurt one of your friends, or make someone uncomfortable who just came to your house to have a nice time. Saying that first also means anyone who is watching this video has that warning upfront. A segment of our community is outraged that we would try to be socially responsible, and talk about something that we’re sure does NOT affect the majority of our audience, and thus the majority of our audience would rather not hear. We ourselves are also not representative of all viewers, we are a small team and can’t represent all people, but that doesn’t mean we’ll ignore their concerns and their experiences with specific games. We challenge you to think outside of your own viewing experience and see this as it was intended - to give a voice to that group that doesn’t have a platform with the reach of ours to voice a concern that is real to them. And that makes it real to us, and making board games accessible and inclusive to EVERYONE matters to us a lot. You matter to us too - but anyone unknowingly hurting their friends because of a video we made is something we are not ok with. We will continue to ban everyone who comes here and rallies for us to ignore issues we know exist because they themselves are not affected. We have no room in our community for bigotry or cruelty, there are plenty of communities outside of this one where you can be outraged or disappointed that the majority does not have the only voice on SU&SD. And if you want us to ‘get on with the game’ that’s what the time scrubber is for. If you have the time to leave a nasty comment maybe instead use it to skip ahead in the video - we think it’s a pretty fun one. Here at SU&SD we will continue to address issues that we see, that fans tell us are issues to them, and that could stop absolutely anyone from enjoying board games.
You lot at SUSD are amazing; what a flawless reply. These issues do not affect myself personally either, and I am here writing to thank you for taking it on yourselves to talk about them, for no other reason than you care about the fans it would effect. An excellent display of compassion and social responsibility. I will never understand how weak a character you must be to become enraged at the simple and noble act of attempting to understand and respect other's lives.
One thing I would say: If the game contains elements that are a big enough problem to require a caveat placed at the front of the video, then why even play it at all? Go all the way and say "Actually, we've chosen to play an entirely different game because of this". It just seems half-hearted to be all stern, sporting disappointed faces, then... spend 2 hours having great fun playing it. Dunno really; either it's problematic to you or it isn't problematic to you - if it is then surely you wouldn't have played it. So why declare it to be problematic? Just comes across a tad muddled. But that's just my 2 cents!
@@MrPicklerwoof This all or nothing attitude is just a way to shut down criticism, whether you mean it to or not. It's certainly used by bad faith actors for such purposes. It's ok to call out nonsense in the games we love and continue to enjoy them, regardless of what that nonsense relates to, be it design decisions related to art, mechanics, component quality or whatever. I bought the game after the news article and review link here recently thinking maybe the cover was a bit rough but after seeing this review I'm actually pretty worried about playing it in some circles. It would be irresponsible of these nice boys to not bring up those elements of the art after having it being brought to their attention, because I probably wouldn't have noticed either. At least now I can preface it with a warning before I bust it out. But should we send it to the sin bin of history and never enjoy or learn from it? That seems foolish as well, especially since the theme is otherwise kind of fresh and inclusive and it's a time tested design that people have been enjoying for decades. I would have to throw out half my collection if "problematic" was a dealbreaker, but I'm not going to shut up about my feelings surrounding space facism, murdering of dungeon fauna, profit motivated ecological destruction, violent piracy, slavery, authoritarian states, lack of diversity and good old colonialism which I think some people justifiably have ZERO interest in supporting, but they don't get in our way of enjoying or critiquing them so whats the problem? These themes drive a lot of great games, and criticism is good for hopefully generating more variety, but racism is probably worth a special mention (At least with titles that might look like "Warhammer 40K:Planetary Genocide for Purity" and "Super Classical Empires Time!" the issues that could concern one are displayed openly). The videos on this site often inform me on how to teach or present many of the games it's brought my attention to, the "PC" preamble in question actually helps in this very same way. Of course I am challenging your interpretation of what you see as wishy washy hypocrisy because I disagree with it. I don't intend to devalue you for having such an opinion.
While I disagree with the view that it's inherently problematic (as opposed to subjectively problematic)...I appreciate that you mentioned it briefly at the start and then got on with the game. Nothing wrong with that
Just a suggestion. It's probably easier to parse if the overhead camera matches the viewers perspective(the right side of the overhead should match the right side of the wide shot)
@@shutupandsitdown I understand why it was done that way - having the board-side upright. Matt would have needed to play the game upside-down to have the top-down still be right-way up AND keeping perspective the same.
I think if Quinns had a full restaurant you could call it "Quinner Plate." If it was a take-out restaurant you might want to call it "Quinn-and-out Burger"
"Put a pin in it" - old WWII slang for re-pinning a grenade for later use instead of now. Just thought you'd like to know - I also used to think it meant putting a pin in a note and sticking it on a board (noticed your miming of that act).
I love it when you guys play games, really entertaining to watch! I feel like if you took a leaf out of CowChops book and utilise how they almost have a HUD for each player detailing what resources and money etc they have, it would make it a lot easier to follow and more entertaining! Maybe not as, applicable to this game, but others would have benefitted from this a lot i think!
I would really appreciate that too. I bought the game a while ago but it kind of looks dreadful so every time I suggest it my group kind of glazes over so I would appreciate at least watching the game being played.
Astronomy background here: sidereal is a term that means with respect to distant stars, like a fixed reference point. So a sidereal day is slightly different from a solar day (i.e. with respect to the Sun) because Earth rotates just a tad around the Sun.
So you have an entire crew behind the scenes while you play this game? intersting. I mean on the one hand, when I actually pay attention to the quality of both video and audio, I can see the need of those extra hands, on the other it is kind of mind boggling to imagine having an actual crew behind the cameras for what is people playing a game of Chinatown. Fascinating stuff.
That's called trick shuffling I'm pretty sure. Based on the number of occasion when some goes "There's only one card I have that could beat my opponent" and then immediately draws it from the top of their deck I can only imagine that everyone who plays Duel Monsters is a dirty cheat
I thought it was Annies approach of BF innuendo; but ye the girls are new to me & I also dont follow streams cause they are usually very bad with all the little breaks about donations & subscribers, but SU&SD do it very well & Annie might be their graphical assistance! :)
I, for one, am completely satisfied with the level of 'hand-wringing' SUSD does over their games. They're game reviewers. If they think some imagery is bad because it seems stereotyped, that's kinda their job. They did the same thing with that one Istanbul game where every single character was male(I think that was it?) and it was a respectful and completely valid observation. Same deal with the Conan game and Kingdom Death: maybe some people want to know if a game has that 'tits and death' aesthetic. Their objections are always pretty reasonable. Maybe most people would play this game and think the pre-revolutionary Chinese outfit on the front is quaint or cute. But if someone saw it and thought its a lowkey racist caricature made by someone who didn't think their theme through quite thoroughly enough, they would have plenty of supporting evidence in the rest of the artwork that clearly the designer didn't put too much thought into avoiding stereotypes.
Barnsley Chop is just two loin chops of Lamb still connected. Is easy to cook. Think its just one of those things a butcher started doing and people liked. Looks more exciting than it is. Easy enough to google if you want a recipe.
99% Percent Invisible covered the design history of San Francisco's Chinatown was rebuilt in 1906, after the earthquake. They provided some interesting context for why "chopstick" fonts, gable and hip roofs, and red lanterns suddenly appeared when the city was rebuilt. It's worth a listen.
probably a good way to fix the end of the game. game could potentially end on turns 6, 7, or 8, flip a coin to find out if it does so. it should keep you wheeling and dealing for the potential next turn profit that may or may not be there.
"Let's see, what's anti-clockwise?" Such a rebel that one. Also, stop it with your playthroughs. I've had this on my wishlist from someone saying it was good years ago, but now I really really want it.
I demand a better mic or sound quality for the little people doing all the work behind the camera. We can not let the voices of the little people be drowned under the tidal wave of capitalism.
That's interesting. I'm glad to hear that Kylie's doing well. That was very tense not knowing if Kylie or Matt were going to win. American football dates to the 1820's I believe, but that was mostly "Mob football". In the late 1860's and 70's a very few American and Canadian schools started playing a more rugby-game. The 1870's and 80's is when they started developing rules to distinguish North American football codes from rugby. Also, that's San Francisco, not New York.
Lords of Vegas is a slow-burn. Chinatown is intense from the very beginning. And you can't choose to "expand" like you can in Vegas, so any and all locations adjacent to you are valuable.
If you look up pictures of 1960s New York Chinatown, you'll find that the residents didn't look like that. It's a stereotype based off of earlier Chinese immigrants, more from the Gold Rush era I believe, in the late 1800's. It's just offensive to depict the Chinese in Chinatown as something they are not.
Nothing as far as I can tell. Some residents of Chinatown did dress like that in that era. (And others didn't, as also shown on the cover). The man's facial expression and pose match what the game is all about. The chopstick font was used to capture the aesthetic of Chinese characters. There is nothing inherently offensive about using it (apart from the fact that it is an ugly and overused font). He mentioned a parade on the board (happens in China town.. Don't see any problem there). And he mentioned a car crash and made a huge assumption that it was there as a racist stereotype. Not sure if he based that assumption on anything....
tbh it's complicated. The harm that comes from stereotypes takes a long time to understand. And demonizing all depictions of stereotypes does occasionally lead to pitfalls, as people who live their own honest lives or tell their stories are accused of enforcing stereotypes. But ultimately "but sometimes the stereotype is true" is still just a really bad defense of their depiction.
In Louisiana, there are drive thru daiquiri places that serve the drinks in styrofoam cups with a plastic lid and straw. As long as the paper stays on the straw, it's not considered an open container. My friends have brought drinks to game nights in such a way, but, yeah, in general it's an extremely sketchy legal loophole.
15:20 did Quinn just try to flash us there... or has he watched too much Trump speeches? :P "I will offer you.... the best deal.... folks, it's the best!.... everybody agrees.... the best deal... ever."
It depends. If you play with a group that likes simplicity. Chinatown. However sidereal confluence is more intense and people who can handle it will like it better. If you can get 5-10 people who you know like complexity, get sidereal
Chinatown has car accidents just like all of the world. SUSD are the ones that assumed the accident was because they were Asian. SUSD are the disappointingly problematic ones here. Normally I agree with them, not here.
What is wrong with the board game? If you were playing a Medieval type board game, would you not want the fonts that we associate with Medieval used? And so what there is a car crash? Were all cars crashed on the board game? If not, than accidents happen.
There was a comment below with the author deciding not to watch the video because SUSD was too "political". I believe it got banned. However, I would still like to post this as I believe it's an important thing to note. SUSD are the journalists of the board game industry. They review, inform and explain, but also criticize. And games can have very different kinds of problems. Bad mechanics and not so great design choices are the most obvious, but pointing out some social issues is also part of the reviewer's job. Plus they have a really loud voice in the industry. The other day, I've read the review of "Santa Maria" and under some words of criticism towards its depiction of colonization, one of the creators has written a page long comment explaining his choices and admitting some of the components could better convey the message of the "bad part of history" the players are on. So of course, just as you can stop watching SUSD for their political views, they could also stop buying and reviewing games for them. However, would they do that, somebody would scream "Injustice!", arguing that the leftist commenters won't even play the game due to its theme or art. I believe their behavior is 100% correct and we should join in, perhaps trying to spark a discussion instead of simply boycotting the games.
This isn't a review, however. This is a "SUASD Playthrough". I don't think it's unreasonable to just want to watch them play the game rather than hear them talk politics. I agree with them, and I still am rolling my eyes muttering "Get to the actual gameplay guys."
@@Shenaldrac This isn't a review, but they're reviewers. It's not like someone stops being what they are because they're just playing a game over beers. Some of the more interesting conversations I've had over board games happen when one of our group says something like: "Actually, as someone who researches Mars for a living, I can tell you Terraforming Mars is not inaccurate in its depiction at all." And I mean, according to your semi-rule they should also not comment that they like the game for X or Y reasons because that sort of stuff belongs in a review. "Just play the game, guys, I don't want to hear your waffling about balance and game mechanics."
@@whoisbatman This. Plus, it's not like this are not their personal views. I don't believe Quinns secretly hates Muslims and only did the "Istanbul bit" for "those filthy Arab views".
@@shutupandsitdown It's a couple minutes at the very beginning of the video. The first thing that happens in any media will set the tone. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong for criticizing the artwork but I think that having it come up as the very first thing you discuss in the video isn't the best decision. And if giving criticism in a polite, civil manner isn't "the best look" then I'm curious what you think is.
I played a 1st edition copy of this last night and it is an excellent game that is very fun with the right crowd. The edition I played , "Alea" I think, was rather drab looking compared to this version, bland box art and board , with card tokens instead of wood. On a personal level I really like the art of the Z-man edition and while I'm not happy that anyone would get upset by it, I wonder if they would be just as upset by a man in a suit with a bowler hat for a game with English or London Town theme. I think it's important to bear in mind that someone being offended does not mean the subject material is actually offensive. People get upset and offended about literally everything nowadays. Long live common sense.
At this point is virtue signaling, being offended on behalf of others. That font exists on old China Town signs, they actually wore those close, hell they still do. A car accident is just a car accident unless you have the need to add something to it that isn't there. Plus is it not "culturally insensitive" to be playing a game about China Town and not be Chinese?
Would it be racist or cool to use Chinese superstitions to effect the scoring? For example, in particular years it might be better to start particular businesses.
I completely understand why you do it since the intern process is still ongoing, but referring to Kylie as ‘Intern Kylie’ in every video kinda feels a bit weird and dismissive. Maybe just me but I felt I might as well mention
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I think it's also not helped by the fact she's the only woman? I want to give SU&SD the benefit of the doubt here, because clearly (as they have received unreasonable flack for on this very video) they are thoughtful and introspective about these kinds of issues, but consistently referring to the only woman in a slightly dismissive and diminishing way leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and would seem to go against the reasons they said they wanted to hire a woman in the first place?
@@Trevin_Taylor That's not how this works. Can't just flip it back. There are complex and subtle social cues and expectations at work here, given that the phrase 'and Intern Kylie' has a subtly but noticeably different connotation than, say, 'and our intern, Kylie', due to the inflection point, ingrained perceptions about the role of interns, and the fact that diminuitive language (like calling someone Adjective Name whether they like it or not) is used against women all the time. None of this can be removed from context, because all words are is context.
Kudos for not side-lining this brilliant game despite having reservations about some elements of the artwork. I'm willing to believe it's all good, friendly fun but when a culture is singled-out like this it can be hard to tell if we're not just being asked to join in laughing at the Chinese. It's a bit like praying you wont find out one day that the author of your favourite book was a horrible racist.
Eventhough Quinns says the game came out in the 90s, sorta to explaint he weird box art - the original 90s box art was a lot more mild. It looked like an old photograph made back in the day, with less stereotypes. It seems that in 2008 they came up with this new version and decided to make it worse
The man depicted on the box is a racial stereotype that does not accurately reflect the way that Chinese Americans looked at the time the game takes place.
No, that's typical of folks who don't do physical labor or otherwise regularly exercise. First time I ever tried it I could only press the 20-kg bar (with several reps).
Exactly. Isn’t the real problematic bit SUSD themselves for assuming the accident was because of someone’s race? I usually agree with them but this was not progressive, it was nonsense.
feel sorry for these guys having to tread so carefully when it comes to stereotyping and equality. I get that they have to cater for all people, even the overly sensitive ones. there is nothing that needs to be updated about the box art it might be exaggerated to give the consumer a clearer message of the theme of the game, but there is nothing offensive about it. anyone who got offended please feel free to reply to me why in any way this game is offensive.
FinetalPies I’m not asking them to prove racism because there is no question about it, this game is not racist, I merely want people to state why the concepts of such an innocent game theme could be considered offensive. This game does not imply that the Chinese race is inferior in any way, and although yes it does play on a few stereotypes(which is not racism in its self) which may or may not be accurate, none of those are offensive. Stereotypes exist for every nationality, and although some are offensive, most are harmless and are accepted even by the nationality the stereotype is based on, sometimes even marketed by the nationality it’s based on. It’s a light hearted game, not a statement.
People are extreamly over sensitive over crap that most of the time usually has nothing to do with them anyway. Oh no theres a generic Chinese person on the box wearing traditional Chinese clothes so racist to depict a people in the most generic way ever that a like drawing and English person in a bowler hat or an american in a cowboy hat or a Japanese person in a kimono the list can go on it's not racist for a style of clothing to be associated with a nationality of people.
Can you guys do a War of the Ring Let's Play?
Yes please!!
Before we filmed this video we had several people message us telling us they had been hurt or surprised by the art in this game. That they or someone who was important to them was made to feel uncomfortable by it, and gave us examples. It’s important to us that if you are thinking about going out and buying this game after watching us have a lot of fun with it, that you don’t then take it home and unintentionally hurt one of your friends, or make someone uncomfortable who just came to your house to have a nice time. Saying that first also means anyone who is watching this video has that warning upfront.
A segment of our community is outraged that we would try to be socially responsible, and talk about something that we’re sure does NOT affect the majority of our audience, and thus the majority of our audience would rather not hear. We ourselves are also not representative of all viewers, we are a small team and can’t represent all people, but that doesn’t mean we’ll ignore their concerns and their experiences with specific games. We challenge you to think outside of your own viewing experience and see this as it was intended - to give a voice to that group that doesn’t have a platform with the reach of ours to voice a concern that is real to them. And that makes it real to us, and making board games accessible and inclusive to EVERYONE matters to us a lot. You matter to us too - but anyone unknowingly hurting their friends because of a video we made is something we are not ok with.
We will continue to ban everyone who comes here and rallies for us to ignore issues we know exist because they themselves are not affected. We have no room in our community for bigotry or cruelty, there are plenty of communities outside of this one where you can be outraged or disappointed that the majority does not have the only voice on SU&SD. And if you want us to ‘get on with the game’ that’s what the time scrubber is for. If you have the time to leave a nasty comment maybe instead use it to skip ahead in the video - we think it’s a pretty fun one.
Here at SU&SD we will continue to address issues that we see, that fans tell us are issues to them, and that could stop absolutely anyone from enjoying board games.
You lot at SUSD are amazing; what a flawless reply. These issues do not affect myself personally either, and I am here writing to thank you for taking it on yourselves to talk about them, for no other reason than you care about the fans it would effect. An excellent display of compassion and social responsibility. I will never understand how weak a character you must be to become enraged at the simple and noble act of attempting to understand and respect other's lives.
How many of the people who claimed to have been hurt or surprised were actually Chinese though?
One thing I would say: If the game contains elements that are a big enough problem to require a caveat placed at the front of the video, then why even play it at all? Go all the way and say "Actually, we've chosen to play an entirely different game because of this". It just seems half-hearted to be all stern, sporting disappointed faces, then... spend 2 hours having great fun playing it.
Dunno really; either it's problematic to you or it isn't problematic to you - if it is then surely you wouldn't have played it. So why declare it to be problematic? Just comes across a tad muddled. But that's just my 2 cents!
@@MrPicklerwoof This all or nothing attitude is just a way to shut down criticism, whether you mean it to or not. It's certainly used by bad faith actors for such purposes.
It's ok to call out nonsense in the games we love and continue to enjoy them, regardless of what that nonsense relates to, be it design decisions related to art, mechanics, component quality or whatever. I bought the game after the news article and review link here recently thinking maybe the cover was a bit rough but after seeing this review I'm actually pretty worried about playing it in some circles. It would be irresponsible of these nice boys to not bring up those elements of the art after having it being brought to their attention, because I probably wouldn't have noticed either. At least now I can preface it with a warning before I bust it out.
But should we send it to the sin bin of history and never enjoy or learn from it? That seems foolish as well, especially since the theme is otherwise kind of fresh and inclusive and it's a time tested design that people have been enjoying for decades. I would have to throw out half my collection if "problematic" was a dealbreaker, but I'm not going to shut up about my feelings surrounding space facism, murdering of dungeon fauna, profit motivated ecological destruction, violent piracy, slavery, authoritarian states, lack of diversity and good old colonialism which I think some people justifiably have ZERO interest in supporting, but they don't get in our way of enjoying or critiquing them so whats the problem? These themes drive a lot of great games, and criticism is good for hopefully generating more variety, but racism is probably worth a special mention (At least with titles that might look like "Warhammer 40K:Planetary Genocide for Purity" and "Super Classical Empires Time!" the issues that could concern one are displayed openly).
The videos on this site often inform me on how to teach or present many of the games it's brought my attention to, the "PC" preamble in question actually helps in this very same way.
Of course I am challenging your interpretation of what you see as wishy washy hypocrisy because I disagree with it. I don't intend to devalue you for having such an opinion.
While I disagree with the view that it's inherently problematic (as opposed to subjectively problematic)...I appreciate that you mentioned it briefly at the start and then got on with the game. Nothing wrong with that
Just a suggestion. It's probably easier to parse if the overhead camera matches the viewers perspective(the right side of the overhead should match the right side of the wide shot)
Totally agree. We won't be doing that again!
Came to say this lol
@@shutupandsitdown I understand why it was done that way - having the board-side upright. Matt would have needed to play the game upside-down to have the top-down still be right-way up AND keeping perspective the same.
@@crocosnz3322 That's not really a big problem. In a 4-or-more player game, someone has to play it upside down.
I did think, on at least two occasions, that Quins really shouldn't by trying to pull off that dark a shade of nail polish.
I think if Quinns had a full restaurant you could call it "Quinner Plate." If it was a take-out restaurant you might want to call it "Quinn-and-out Burger"
I was thinking of 'Quintessential Dining' … it would be really posh and serve just 2-3 things.
I know I'm 3 years late, but... Haute Quinnsine
1:31:48
That conference call impression was actually too good omg
It hits different in a post COVID world
I've watching this stream 3 times, and now I finally bought the game. Excited to play it!
This has so much more suspense, drama and comedy than a lot of 2 hour movies
"Calling Quentin 'Dim Sum' because he's bad at maths." 😝
That was a really good joke and I'm saddened no one laughed.
Thanks team in front and behind the cam for this. Wicked of you to mention Destroyer cuz i started watching the playthrough humming the tune of it.
"Put a pin in it" - old WWII slang for re-pinning a grenade for later use instead of now. Just thought you'd like to know - I also used to think it meant putting a pin in a note and sticking it on a board (noticed your miming of that act).
so I was Googling sexy prawns and this is was came up, not
disappointed
...
I wanna ask *why* you were Googling sexy prawns but I'm not entirely sure I want an answer to that question.
The "Conference call" at 1:32:00 is one of the greatest SU&SD bits of all time. XD (The whole playthrough was fantastic)
As someone who has just started working from home and thus is having a lot of conference calls: yep.
I love it when you guys play games, really entertaining to watch! I feel like if you took a leaf out of CowChops book and utilise how they almost have a HUD for each player detailing what resources and money etc they have, it would make it a lot easier to follow and more entertaining! Maybe not as, applicable to this game, but others would have benefitted from this a lot i think!
14:36 - I really want playthrough of Sidereal Confluence from you guys
I would really appreciate that too. I bought the game a while ago but it kind of looks dreadful so every time I suggest it my group kind of glazes over so I would appreciate at least watching the game being played.
Next time, color code your nail polish to make the overhead view easier to interpret.
This is unironically a fantastic idea
Forget this video Jake it’s just Chinatown
David McKeown on the off chance your serious... no it’s a reference to the movie Chinatown quite a famous noir film. Very possibly parody by Gex.
Oof. You can tell they've been on conference calls before. That was perfect.
Astronomy background here: sidereal is a term that means with respect to distant stars, like a fixed reference point. So a sidereal day is slightly different from a solar day (i.e. with respect to the Sun) because Earth rotates just a tad around the Sun.
I'm pretty sure sidereal confluence is just a convoluted way to say cosmic encounter ... not 100% accurate but anyways. Too funny to be coincidence!
Not a fan of this game......and now I am going to watch two hours of it because you guys are great.
So you have an entire crew behind the scenes while you play this game? intersting. I mean on the one hand, when I actually pay attention to the quality of both video and audio, I can see the need of those extra hands, on the other it is kind of mind boggling to imagine having an actual crew behind the cameras for what is people playing a game of Chinatown. Fascinating stuff.
I'm pretty sure the official name for the shuffle you showed at the start is "that wacky shuffle they do on Yu-Gi-Oh."
That's called trick shuffling I'm pretty sure. Based on the number of occasion when some goes "There's only one card I have that could beat my opponent" and then immediately draws it from the top of their deck I can only imagine that everyone who plays Duel Monsters is a dirty cheat
Where I’m from, everyone uses the hindu shuffle. Didn’t realise that it’s considered unusual in another part of the world!
I swear I couldn't hear Kylie's accent til the mention of the Barnsley chop reference and now I'm constantly catching it, hah.
I noticed it halfway through the blood on the clock tower video, very slight accent.
Cannot wait until fireball island!
Saw it in the shop however only had carry on luggage the next day
That KLAX box in the background drew my attention. One of the finest games on the Amiga 500 :)
What's with the pic of the Y-fronts on the heart @ 19:03?
I thought it was Annies approach of BF innuendo; but ye the girls are new to me & I also dont follow streams cause they are usually very bad with all the little breaks about donations & subscribers, but SU&SD do it very well & Annie might be their graphical assistance! :)
Things I learned today:
- the English say anti clockwise and not counter clockwise
Some Smackers do 'av 'em! I think that was an underappreciated reference... Very British, very quaint xD
1:48:25 Finally someone gets 53, on the last turn of the game.. Quinns I hope you win now!
Great video team! Love your work :)
Thanks Matt for the recommendation of Chinatown by Destroyer. :D (It's pretty good)
I'm not sure I realized until now just how used to Quinns playing yellow pieces I am.
That conference call just hit too close to home
I, for one, am completely satisfied with the level of 'hand-wringing' SUSD does over their games. They're game reviewers. If they think some imagery is bad because it seems stereotyped, that's kinda their job. They did the same thing with that one Istanbul game where every single character was male(I think that was it?) and it was a respectful and completely valid observation. Same deal with the Conan game and Kingdom Death: maybe some people want to know if a game has that 'tits and death' aesthetic.
Their objections are always pretty reasonable. Maybe most people would play this game and think the pre-revolutionary Chinese outfit on the front is quaint or cute. But if someone saw it and thought its a lowkey racist caricature made by someone who didn't think their theme through quite thoroughly enough, they would have plenty of supporting evidence in the rest of the artwork that clearly the designer didn't put too much thought into avoiding stereotypes.
Barnsley Chop is just two loin chops of Lamb still connected. Is easy to cook. Think its just one of those things a butcher started doing and people liked. Looks more exciting than it is. Easy enough to google if you want a recipe.
99% Percent Invisible covered the design history of San Francisco's Chinatown was rebuilt in 1906, after the earthquake. They provided some interesting context for why "chopstick" fonts, gable and hip roofs, and red lanterns suddenly appeared when the city was rebuilt. It's worth a listen.
Great video, keep up the good work!
I'll be honest, I really miss Rob friend of the stream and Kylie in these.
I've walked through Detroit airport and it really is impressive.
Great video as always, just searched all of the webs and couldn't find this game anywhere. :'( i cri eveytiem
I will support whichever player holds tile 53
Gotta do Mega-Civilization next :) lots of negotiation, just need to fit at least 7,8 people on camera.
We're hoping to acquire a copy of Western Empires when it comes out later this year. :)
A marker can fix a lot of ills. I suggest turning the dude on the front of the box into a Ninja.
probably a good way to fix the end of the game. game could potentially end on turns 6, 7, or 8, flip a coin to find out if it does so. it should keep you wheeling and dealing for the potential next turn profit that may or may not be there.
1:25:27 "Non-sexual photos of prawns" 🦐🤦♂️🦐
"Let's see, what's anti-clockwise?" Such a rebel that one.
Also, stop it with your playthroughs. I've had this on my wishlist from someone saying it was good years ago, but now I really really want it.
I demand a better mic or sound quality for the little people doing all the work behind the camera. We can not let the voices of the little people be drowned under the tidal wave of capitalism.
One of my favourites! Awesome to see a stream. Better with 4 or 5 though..
As someone who was born and raised there, what does Prawnville have to do with Memphis, Tennessee?
Next up can we have a Let's Play... Brass Lancashire? Kylie would dominate due to northern roots.
As Calculon once said, "Hmm, I don't like the font."
That's interesting. I'm glad to hear that Kylie's doing well. That was very tense not knowing if Kylie or Matt were going to win.
American football dates to the 1820's I believe, but that was mostly "Mob football". In the late 1860's and 70's a very few American and Canadian schools started playing a more rugby-game. The 1870's and 80's is when they started developing rules to distinguish North American football codes from rugby.
Also, that's San Francisco, not New York.
I love Lords Of Vegas. This looks very similar. I wonder which one is better.
Lords of Vegas is a slow-burn. Chinatown is intense from the very beginning. And you can't choose to "expand" like you can in Vegas, so any and all locations adjacent to you are valuable.
This is probably better, but it's very group and setting dependent.
Magic Maze could be amazing on stream!! Also 4 player 878 Vikings could be fun!! War of the Ring: Matt vs Quinns? Root?
They need to play this again, as a conference call :P
38:48 Quinn's Quick Quiches
What's wrong with the cover?
If you look up pictures of 1960s New York Chinatown, you'll find that the residents didn't look like that. It's a stereotype based off of earlier Chinese immigrants, more from the Gold Rush era I believe, in the late 1800's. It's just offensive to depict the Chinese in Chinatown as something they are not.
Nothing as far as I can tell. Some residents of Chinatown did dress like that in that era. (And others didn't, as also shown on the cover).
The man's facial expression and pose match what the game is all about.
The chopstick font was used to capture the aesthetic of Chinese characters. There is nothing inherently offensive about using it (apart from the fact that it is an ugly and overused font).
He mentioned a parade on the board (happens in China town.. Don't see any problem there).
And he mentioned a car crash and made a huge assumption that it was there as a racist stereotype. Not sure if he based that assumption on anything....
tbh it's complicated. The harm that comes from stereotypes takes a long time to understand. And demonizing all depictions of stereotypes does occasionally lead to pitfalls, as people who live their own honest lives or tell their stories are accused of enforcing stereotypes.
But ultimately "but sometimes the stereotype is true" is still just a really bad defense of their depiction.
I could have sworn you said "Quim Sum"
For some reason I like this game
I do not think I've ever enjoyed the colour yellow so much in my life before
booba
Why aren't SU&SD Let's Plays called "Shut Up & Play"?
Quinns - "When I finish SU&SD..."
Me- Waa, please, GOT and Endgame have ruined me enough this week without this talk.
Quinns, have you ever been to Entrecôte in Bordeaux?
Made me buy this game. How about that?
I really want to open a restaurant called Dim Sum and Den Sum.
Matt was that the Metroid theme you sang "Funny Joke" to?
1:59:22 I believe Americans do have those glasses. I have seen them but, haven't really checked them out.
In Louisiana, there are drive thru daiquiri places that serve the drinks in styrofoam cups with a plastic lid and straw. As long as the paper stays on the straw, it's not considered an open container. My friends have brought drinks to game nights in such a way, but, yeah, in general it's an extremely sketchy legal loophole.
15:20 did Quinn just try to flash us there... or has he watched too much Trump speeches? :P
"I will offer you.... the best deal.... folks, it's the best!.... everybody agrees.... the best deal... ever."
Please do more of this after SHUX...
matthew lillard and max landis lmao
Does anyone know about what happened to Kylie?
1:03:35 I've said that before
2:39 Today I learned that Chinatown is 'problematic' and 'Hindu shuffle' is really cool and appropriate. What a strange time to be alive.
Their money is supposed to be hidden or was he just saying it should be to make the last round more interesting?
They were saying that the amount of money you make in each round is disclosed when you earn it, but each player's total is private information.
Chinatown vs sidereal confluence?
It depends. If you play with a group that likes simplicity. Chinatown. However sidereal confluence is more intense and people who can handle it will like it better. If you can get 5-10 people who you know like complexity, get sidereal
I burst out laughing when he pointed out the car crash only because I never even would've thought about it but then it hit me.
Chinatown has car accidents just like all of the world. SUSD are the ones that assumed the accident was because they were Asian. SUSD are the disappointingly problematic ones here. Normally I agree with them, not here.
Watching this back in November 2020, the whole conference call joke cuts so much deeper...
Only every conference call ever :)
Florists are like necromancers?!? 🌸🤔🧟♂️
Kylie's lifts have inspired me to go back to the gym. :flex emoji:
What is wrong with the board game? If you were playing a Medieval type board game, would you not want the fonts that we associate with Medieval used? And so what there is a car crash? Were all cars crashed on the board game? If not, than accidents happen.
com 6 players is very good.
Can someone explain why the cover art is problematic?
prawn stars... a card game of working in the "porn/prawn" business....? fishy deals and carefully of getting crabs....
There was a comment below with the author deciding not to watch the video because SUSD was too "political". I believe it got banned. However, I would still like to post this as I believe it's an important thing to note.
SUSD are the journalists of the board game industry. They review, inform and explain, but also criticize.
And games can have very different kinds of problems. Bad mechanics and not so great design choices are the most obvious, but pointing out some social issues is also part of the reviewer's job.
Plus they have a really loud voice in the industry. The other day, I've read the review of "Santa Maria" and under some words of criticism towards its depiction of colonization, one of the creators has written a page long comment explaining his choices and admitting some of the components could better convey the message of the "bad part of history" the players are on.
So of course, just as you can stop watching SUSD for their political views, they could also stop buying and reviewing games for them.
However, would they do that, somebody would scream "Injustice!", arguing that the leftist commenters won't even play the game due to its theme or art. I believe their behavior is 100% correct and we should join in, perhaps trying to spark a discussion instead of simply boycotting the games.
This isn't a review, however. This is a "SUASD Playthrough". I don't think it's unreasonable to just want to watch them play the game rather than hear them talk politics. I agree with them, and I still am rolling my eyes muttering "Get to the actual gameplay guys."
It is a couple of minutes at most in a two hour video. Roll eyes if you must, but it isn't the best look.
@@Shenaldrac This isn't a review, but they're reviewers. It's not like someone stops being what they are because they're just playing a game over beers. Some of the more interesting conversations I've had over board games happen when one of our group says something like: "Actually, as someone who researches Mars for a living, I can tell you Terraforming Mars is not inaccurate in its depiction at all."
And I mean, according to your semi-rule they should also not comment that they like the game for X or Y reasons because that sort of stuff belongs in a review. "Just play the game, guys, I don't want to hear your waffling about balance and game mechanics."
@@whoisbatman This. Plus, it's not like this are not their personal views. I don't believe Quinns secretly hates Muslims and only did the "Istanbul bit" for "those filthy Arab views".
@@shutupandsitdown
It's a couple minutes at the very beginning of the video. The first thing that happens in any media will set the tone. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong for criticizing the artwork but I think that having it come up as the very first thing you discuss in the video isn't the best decision.
And if giving criticism in a polite, civil manner isn't "the best look" then I'm curious what you think is.
Four years ago, I posted this on the SUSD video review of this game. Matt just made the same reference. Ha!
disq.us/p/rtn9oh
prawn park
I'm colorblind and I say what is wrong with everyone else's eyes all the time.
I played a 1st edition copy of this last night and it is an excellent game that is very fun with the right crowd. The edition I played , "Alea" I think, was rather drab looking compared to this version, bland box art and board , with card tokens instead of wood. On a personal level I really like the art of the Z-man edition and while I'm not happy that anyone would get upset by it, I wonder if they would be just as upset by a man in a suit with a bowler hat for a game with English or London Town theme. I think it's important to bear in mind that someone being offended does not mean the subject material is actually offensive. People get upset and offended about literally everything nowadays. Long live common sense.
At this point is virtue signaling, being offended on behalf of others. That font exists on old China Town signs, they actually wore those close, hell they still do. A car accident is just a car accident unless you have the need to add something to it that isn't there. Plus is it not "culturally insensitive" to be playing a game about China Town and not be Chinese?
Thank you! Very well said
Would it be racist or cool to use Chinese superstitions to effect the scoring? For example, in particular years it might be better to start particular businesses.
It would be interesting, I don't think it would fit the theme though.
I would say go for it honestly might be cool to try or so. And no it wouldnt be racist at all not like ur making fun of the Chinese or anything.
I completely understand why you do it since the intern process is still ongoing, but referring to Kylie as ‘Intern Kylie’ in every video kinda feels a bit weird and dismissive. Maybe just me but I felt I might as well mention
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I think it's also not helped by the fact she's the only woman? I want to give SU&SD the benefit of the doubt here, because clearly (as they have received unreasonable flack for on this very video) they are thoughtful and introspective about these kinds of issues, but consistently referring to the only woman in a slightly dismissive and diminishing way leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and would seem to go against the reasons they said they wanted to hire a woman in the first place?
@@Trevin_Taylor That's not how this works. Can't just flip it back. There are complex and subtle social cues and expectations at work here, given that the phrase 'and Intern Kylie' has a subtly but noticeably different connotation than, say, 'and our intern, Kylie', due to the inflection point, ingrained perceptions about the role of interns, and the fact that diminuitive language (like calling someone Adjective Name whether they like it or not) is used against women all the time. None of this can be removed from context, because all words are is context.
On my I totally noticed the backwards deal I'm glad chat commented
Kudos for not side-lining this brilliant game despite having reservations about some elements of the artwork.
I'm willing to believe it's all good, friendly fun but when a culture is singled-out like this it can be hard to tell if we're not just being asked to join in laughing at the Chinese.
It's a bit like praying you wont find out one day that the author of your favourite book was a horrible racist.
Eventhough Quinns says the game came out in the 90s, sorta to explaint he weird box art - the original 90s box art was a lot more mild. It looked like an old photograph made back in the day, with less stereotypes. It seems that in 2008 they came up with this new version and decided to make it worse
Kelly has a brilliant smile 😃 and Matthew has to stop missing chest days
What's so problematic about the box art???
The man depicted on the box is a racial stereotype that does not accurately reflect the way that Chinese Americans looked at the time the game takes place.
Finally
You guys don't think you can lift 33 kilos?
You honestly might want to see a doctor.
Bench 33kg. If you've never benched before and don't have much strength in your arms and chest, you'd actually find it a bit tricky.
No, that's typical of folks who don't do physical labor or otherwise regularly exercise. First time I ever tried it I could only press the 20-kg bar (with several reps).
TBH I don't see why a car crash is bad, I don't assume it's for any race reason, I assume it's just for aesthetics.
Exactly. Isn’t the real problematic bit SUSD themselves for assuming the accident was because of someone’s race? I usually agree with them but this was not progressive, it was nonsense.
feel sorry for these guys having to tread so carefully when it comes to stereotyping and equality. I get that they have to cater for all people, even the overly sensitive ones.
there is nothing that needs to be updated about the box art it might be exaggerated to give the consumer a clearer message of the theme of the game, but there is nothing offensive about it.
anyone who got offended please feel free to reply to me why in any way this game is offensive.
It's a cute trick to push the responsibility of "proving" racism to the victims of it. Anything that takes responsibility away from you, amirite?
FinetalPies I’m not asking them to prove racism because there is no question about it, this game is not racist, I merely want people to state why the concepts of such an innocent game theme could be considered offensive.
This game does not imply that the Chinese race is inferior in any way, and although yes it does play on a few stereotypes(which is not racism in its self) which may or may not be accurate, none of those are offensive. Stereotypes exist for every nationality, and although some are offensive, most are harmless and are accepted even by the nationality the stereotype is based on, sometimes even marketed by the nationality it’s based on.
It’s a light hearted game, not a statement.
People are extreamly over sensitive over crap that most of the time usually has nothing to do with them anyway. Oh no theres a generic Chinese person on the box wearing traditional Chinese clothes so racist to depict a people in the most generic way ever that a like drawing and English person in a bowler hat or an american in a cowboy hat or a Japanese person in a kimono the list can go on it's not racist for a style of clothing to be associated with a nationality of people.