How To: Set Proper Endplay in a Ford C4 Transmission
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2023
- Today I tackle the Ford C4 Transmission again.. Getting the proper Endplay is crucial to a long life in all transmissions but when you are making big power in front of a C4 it is a Must!
Thanks to Harold at Dynamic Racing Transmissions for always taking the time to help this guy from NC out with questions... if you want to go fast with a C4 Dynamic is the only choice!
#ford #Transmission - Авто та транспорт
Good deal Andy. Looking good. Been building my own C4s for 30+ years. My 7 yo and I tearing mine down and going through it and putting it back together. Good luck and get R done.
Tim I love C4 transmissions they are amazing little units.. If Casper could lose 1000 pounds I would never give mine up!
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage thanks my friend. I agree. She is a big girl that ole ghost. Stay tuned
You never leave anyone hanging! Great job!
Thanks John!
Andy
Good morning to you and I hope that you have a great day today. I know that you will get it the way you want it. If anyone has the patience it is you. Of all things I know that it can get seriously frustrating sometimes, but I believe that you have the knowledge to get it the way you want and need it to be!
The best part is that you lay it out there and you are going by a Original Manual and the rest is from your years of experience with help of other professionals and mechanics to get it right, if there was something wrong you or one of your friends would figure it out. I'm going to take your opinion on it for the point that you have been running the same transmission for years and you still have it, maintain it, and are able to continue to use it for what you need it to do. I would say that you have a good idea of what you are doing and it still works. Great day to you and thank you for sharing this with us.
Nice job Andy!👍✋🏻
Thanks Laut!
Andy
Another great series Andy! Very good info here.
Thanks Shane! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
Good info Andy! Thanks!
Thanks brother!
Andy
Nice job!
Thanks andy. Yeah you really gotta know how one works, what each thing does and what you dont want to happen. Thanks for the tips👍
Thanks for watching! You are right but once upon a time I didn't know either... The C4 is really a simple design Compared to some other Autos
Andy
another info-filled vid.
Looks good Andy. 😎
Thanks Nathan!
cheers mate!
Good Job Andy on the explanation. :) Couple points , those washers never work out in pairs , just need to use what you need to get it right . Select the #2 for correct endfloat and the #1 for a nice snug fit ..
Also with case laying on its side like that should of held some pressure on the input shaft when zero'ing the dial gauge . Looking at it there was about an extra .005" in the endfloat.. Still ok at .017" but just so you know . If the transmission was on a stand upright then it would stay pretty much zero .
The 1965 supplement C4 manual Form LM-7644-65 states not to replace the 1 and 2 thrust washers in pairs. Then goes on to explain how to set the end play.
There were a lot of changes between the 64 and 65 C4 transmissions.
According to Form 7644-65 page 52 "It is no longer recommended that when a No.1 or No.2 thrust washer requires changing that both be changed in pairs according to the table at the top of page 93 in the C4 manual". (Form LM-7644)
Form 7644-65 page 52 goes on to tell you that to check the end play of the No. 2 thrust washer first as shown in Form LM-7644 then determine the correct thickness of the number No. 1 thrust washer next as shown on page 52 of Form LM-7644-65.
This change in procedure back in 1965 has screwed up a lot of people including myself in trying to set the No.1 and No.2 thrust washers in a C4. I think even the engineers at Ford were confused. Some C4 books and videos tell you to select the washers in pairs and other books and videos tell you to select them separately.
The idea of changing both washers in pairs was stopped back in 1965 and it was then shown to set the end play of the No, 2 thrust washer (bronze) first before setting the thickness of the No. 1 thrust washer. (plastic).
I hope this clears up the procedure to select the correct selective thrust washers in the C4.
But probably won't. 🙄
That is very interesting and makes sense as I have seen it both ways as well.. BUT I can only speak for myself, I have never seen a failure due to endplay Except when set to tight.
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I have rebuilt C4s loose in the past with no problem. But I have found something out. Sometimes when installing roller thrust washers the washers set in a recess that is not very deep. If the end play is too loose a washer can fall out of the recess and get off the roller thrust bearing, When this happens the stress on the washer being out of place will break off the edge of the washer and the broken piece will get jammed in between the planet and the ring gear locking up the transmission. It happened to me just last Saturday. Was running great then the above happened. Other than the broken washer there was no other damage to the transmission. Now I am running .010 end play. Don't need that again.😊
I never done s c4 . Years ago I rebuilt a few 350 and 400 transmissions when I worked for gm . That was when I got out of a auto and diesel tech school.. I don't like warranty work and I finally said I done here . I remember once my brothers jeep had a 400 turbo he had a failure and had it fail after he was on the way home . So he and I pulled it out and rebuilt it . That's was in I think 78 lol or 79 . We went to a salvage yard to get a front pump as his was bad. We found one that was in good shape . We got the transmission back together and seems like we added a shift kit . Worked OK. I not a expert on them . Never had a 400 in a hot rod . My brother had a power glide in his Nova and the Integra. I know most want agree but I ran 10wt in my transmission in my old 12 valve a 95 4x4 for 20 plus years . Finally the transmission let go at 215k miles on it . I replaced it with a g56 transmission. Thanks for the videos
I remember reading a article a good while back from a shop don't remember who that stated they used the 10 wt in there transmission as it changed the way the stall acted in the convertor. I don't remember if it was sprag less or not . I not recommending that you use it just that's what was stated . I know some guys use synthetic oil for diesel in there hot shot truck transmission. Probably a Asian or Allison. . Good luck enjoy the videos
Andy, subscribed sometime ago but had to ask after you, David and Uncle Tony got together on video Saturday!
Thanks!
This looks soooo much different than I remember... Than I was thinking...
Wow.. ok .. I get what I'm looking at now
Hey man good video an feat detail, I have a quick question, I have a stuck input shaft, what is the length I have to go through to remove it, I really don't want to bring it to a shop, I was only trying to replace a few leaking seals and I ran into that, thanks in advanced!
I think the C4 will live in your truck, but if you need more trans go for a C6. Dynamic can build C6 to live with very little modification.
The problem with the C6 is the heavy internal rotating mass and they rob power... The other parts of that equation is for the money to make a C6 hold you can have a bullet proof TH400 the aftermarket doesn't support the C6 like the TH400 and the last reason is I can run a SFI approved bell housing on the 400
Hope this helps clear up why I'm going the 400 route
Andy
Put a Gear Vendors on the back of the 400 might help move the Big Truck Faster and easier
Andy do you still have to do a video on jet mods for the carter 2 barrel ? I just watched David's video on the mods we are doing . crazy how you David and me think alike when doing these mods to increase cfm. I'll be posting a video soon on the mods I have done and will be doing
I'm working on that video now!
Andy
I still think a lenco better suites casper but its just my taste. 🙂
It will have a Lenco at some point that has to happen! But for the mean time while I'm racing a 400 will be best
Andy
Disclaimer: No Chinese measuring tools were used in the making of this video.
Thats exactly right! Not saying they are bad but my Dad taught me well...
Andy
Were the clutch packs soaked in transmission fluid before assembly or just installed dry, and if dry would filling the trans with fluid soak the assembly well enough?
I always soak the bands and clutches before final assembly
Andy
I have had major problems putting mine together for a while now. When I go to tighten the pump, everything binds. I ja e tried a green, yellow, and zero #1 washers... I tried two pump gaskets, and I have tore apart this transmission so many times I can do it in my sleep. Please help! Thanks.
Desperate in Michigan lol
4L80 will hold 1500hp or more and is basically a turbo 400 with overdrive. Street Outlaws use a version of it in their 3000hp plus cars. If the powerglide can be adapted to a ford engine so can the 4l80
Ronnie I have seriously been looking at going that route.
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage The 4l80 needs the control box or can be run in full manual( theres videos on UA-cam how its done) but the internal parts are similar. 0.70 overdrive and you could use an even lower rear gear if needed. This was the reason Im going sbc in a mustang even though I got a powerglide to start with but the 4l80 is an option if I need it
No T400 goes in Casper. Casper gets a C6 !
what would be the price to build that c4 with the roller set up and machine work
Good video . What is the spec in thousandths that you are looking for
I like getting as close as I can to the low end of the factory spec .008"
Andy
Cool thanks man im working on a c4 for my 71 f100
@@justinschmidt9180 if you still have the factory thrust washers .008"-.042" is the factory spec this is a rollerized unit with Torrington bearings and I like to run those on the tighter side of the spec
Andy
Why don't you go with c6
To bad that the aftermarket didn't make all the billet and 300m parts like they do for the GM, I believe that the C4-C5 transmission is every bit as strong as the powerglide, but Ford gets little to no help from the aftermarket
I'm with you Jack.. on the aftermarket support.. would be nice to have a good aftermarket Case and new hard parts like the GM transmissions.. I know Speed master makes a case but I've heard of issues
Andy
Did you guys give up on the mission impossible 318???
No, I have said that DV and I have other projects that need finishing before we can go full bore on Mission Impossible
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage totally understandable thank you
You said 11 and a half .. to 12 thousandths.
But what is the correct amount
So why no bronze washers? Also I thought that you were thinking about a Lenco🤔? 🤷♀️.
Lynn its about reducing the amount of internal friction whichs robs power! rollerizing the unit also helps keep the transmission from building excessive heat!
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I know that but for the ones that were giving you problems. To get the end play correct.
They come in different thicknesses and I didn't have the right pair to get the clearance that I needed! As far as the Lenco that is all in due time.. I want a TH400 for Bracket Racing and No-prep..
Andy
WHAT IS THE FLUID TYPE YOU USE IN THEESE FORD TRANSMISSIONS
Dynamic sells a Synthetic Type F that works really well.. I have found it helps the trans run cooler
Hope this helps
Andy
WILL 6 PINION PLANETS FROM A C6 FIT IN A C4
@@stingray6164 no they won't.. unfortunately
Andy
does anyone make or sale 6 pinion planets for a c4@@UnityMotorSportsGarage
YES THAT DOES@@UnityMotorSportsGarage
Why not a C6 for your truck ????
while a C6 would hold the power of MIXED UP BOSS but for the money you can get a much stronger 400 and the aftermarket support for the 400 is much better compared to the C6
Thanks for watching
Andy
So you are setting it to rest on both spots the same.
David that is the goal.. if you run the #1 too tight it will melt the washer.. too loose and you lose pressure it's a balancing act really..
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage yeah and I see you got it right. Someone was just arguing with me about LSA with the opinion that it is just the result of overlap.
I know nothing about transmissions
I know enough to be dangerous.. thats about it!
Andy
Me either. But I ask questions.
I change oil and filter in them, and that's it.
WILL A C4 LIVE IN A 500 HP 1972 FORD GRANADA
Oh yeah that is easy for a built C4 to handle
Andy
500... And up... Up to what.
Like 650..
Personally I blame squirrels......
KEEP THE FLIPPIN SQUIRRELS OUTTA ANDYS TRANNY!
I blame the moose.
@kustomdeluxe8489 say it right. China👌lol AWWOOO 🤙🏼