On newer Toyota engines they use both port and direct injection. Depending on the computer programming, it goes back and forth so the port injectors help keep the valves clean, and the direct injectors for better efficiency.
@@almostbutnotentirelyunreas166 any engine that has what toyota and lexus call their D4S system, i own a 2010 lexus GS 350 and it has a 2GR-FSE engine with that system
i was a mechanic years ago . i had this real old school guy show me his home made catch can on his 64 triumph 1300 car . i was so impressed he had put a old gas valve on the bottom of a tin can that teed into his dip stick via a bit of rubber pipe and to drain it all he had to do was open the valve every so often . he said he went from topping the oil up every month to never having to top it up .
Catch can is only partial answer to GDI engines. Manufacturers recommends 7.5k to 10k oil change these days. If you wait for 7.5k and oops another 1-2k slip by and your piston rings will get gummed up after few slip ups. Most people are driving under severe condition. Just do your oil change every 5k and you don't need to worry about stuck piston rings.
@@hukim0531 I change the oil and filter on both of my cars at 5K intervals. The 2009 Honda Fit isn't a GDI so no worries there. The 2020 Hyundai Accent is a dual port design so that's where the extra caution will help.
I agree with your opinion. I have installed 3 small Catch Cans in 3 different vehicles. They will work to great extent if installed correctly. First, don't spend crazy money on those Marketed name brands that dont perform any better than some cheaper units. Second,Make sure it has a golden micro filter inside to restrict any oil vapors. Third, chose one that has a bottom ball valve so you can easily dain the can. Forth, run a hose from the bottom of the can to the underside of the vehicle for easy no mess draining. Depending on the vehicle, 1 or more ounces may accumulate in the can between oil changes. Still I highly recommend using CRC Intake and Turbo Cleaner via PCV Valve inlet or Throttle Body to minimize any residual contamination on intake valves. Do this every 10K or so miles and you shouldn't have any heavy deposits that would require expensive Walnut Blasting or engine tear down.
@@alandaters8547I believe he means running a hose from the valve on the bottom of the can to a place that you could drain it into the same oil change pan that you drain your engine oil into.
@@alandaters8547 You drain it in the oil tray when changing your motor oil and filter. Always dispose of your used motor oil at the Parts Store or Authorized Recycling Centers.
I installed an oil catch can on my 2017 Camaro SS1LE right after I brought it home new. That's the time to do it, before any build up occurs. So easy to install; it's a no brainer. I empty about 2 ounces from it every 3K-5K miles. 7 years, 45K miles and over 30 track days later, engine still runs great.
I have them on a 2017 Stingray and my daily 2023 F150 3.5 ecoboost. Both systems work well. The oil I drain out of the catch can from the Ford is black, winter or summer. About a tablespoon every 1500 miles. I run J&L brand.
Thank You So Much for the informative and very relevant automotive video. I have experience installing and maintaining the PCV oil catch canisters, AND THEY WORK. If anyone who performs regular automotive engine oil/filter changes would use one only once they would clearly see the used motor oil being recycled through their engine(s) and no stall one only once they every vehicle they were responsible for or appreciated. Keep up the good videos. Have A Productive Day! 🛻🚚🚛
Yet another valid reason to keep your older, simpler vehicle running. New ideas and technology are just bungling up our vehicles making them more prone to expensive repairs.
Just avoid GDI engines. I retired from Lexus in 2012, and even than ,we had already port and direct injection combined. Its very fashionable to dislike Toyota ( Lexus) but lets face it, there is a reason why they are number 1 in longevity and durability. Very nicely done clip, keep at it Lance, greetings from YVR.
You don't need to double up your injectors when you just run the valves hot (how is doubling a critical part like that improving reliability?). Mazda solved this with skyactiv back in 2012 with no extra parts and no downsides.
Change your oil every 5k miles use synthetic oil, keep you oil level top up. Use Red Line Fuel injector treatment every oil change. Oil Additives every oil change like Liqui Moly or maybe 30k miles with the Liqui Moly. People saying change your oil every 10k miles get a bicycle.
@Robis_Grigoris I have a catch can on both my vehicles. 2018 Genesis G80 Sport and a 2023 Frontier Pro 4x. No issues and they seem to be doing their job and I live in Canada.
Correct. All those formulated gasolines with the great carbon cleaners are useless when delivered by GDI. The ONLY way to keep valves clean of carbon build-up is to wash them with fuel. Period. Hybridized systems with a separate injector for the intake runner help resolve the problem. Catch-cans help a bit but GDI is design flaw when combined with PCV recirculation.
Yes, I installed a catch can on my civic 1.5 Turbo. It works really well. Don't see much in it in warm weather but in winter hear in Manitoba Canada with warm up etc. it can fill the can within 2 oil changes, 5 k changes. I think its a must, at least for my civic.
BG came out with a valve treatment 3 years ago. Every 15k and you are good. I am a master tech with 20+ years in the trade. BG makes good stuff. I am not affiliated with BG products as anything but a customer. I have seen carbon buildup cause misfires on cold statrup at 30k miles. This happens on cars that tend to make short frequent trips. Catch cans are more for the gearhead type person.
Just talked to a local at the petrol station café who commutes a Mini and had this problem. Changed oil at 15 tkm. Will tip him on this. He was strongly leaning towards bying a EV! Cheers from Finland.
New technology seems to be really tough on the older generation. My grandfather owned cars with pushrod V6 engines for years, he was used to being able to put any old slop in the oil pan that was cheapest. Finally one day he totaled his old Buick and needed a new car, and bought a Chevrolet Impala with the 3.6L V6 engine. I tried to warn him it wasn’t a good idea, what made it worse was he bought it cheap from an auction. After he bought it I warned him about the 3.6L V6. I told him you have to use synthetic engine oil with detergents in it, and you have to change it regularly because it has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection! He did not heed my warning. He proceeded to put conventional 5W-30 Motor oil in it because that’s what he was running on his old Buick, and within little time at all the engine was having all sorts of issues. He later then after being told by his under the table mechanic that he needs to run synthetic oil, tried telling me that I should do the same with my cars. I politely told him… i tried warning you about that, my car (Which had a 3800 V6) doesn’t require synthetic oil, but I have been using Royal Purple which is one of the best synthetic oils you can get, since i bought my car.
This from an older generation type person who is up to date on the new technology. Something that hasn't changed is the dealership or auto repair shop scam. This fella seems to be a fairly honest guy but in the auto repair business he would be a rarity. Oil changes? Who do you trust to do one for you? The quickie lube joint who might charge you for synthetic oil but actually install some cheap bulk oil instead. The dealership? Might do the same only charge more. Now we have these direct injection, twin turbo gasoline engines that require special care and we have no idea if the dealership or the mechanic is being honest or just feeding us a line of crap. And, yes, Ford has a twin turbo engine. They have a low pressure turbo & a high pressure turbo. In the old radial aircraft engines that had to operate at high altitudes we called it low blow & hi blow because they had a 2 speed supercharger. Same old problem only compounded by hi tech. And not all new engines require synthetic oil. Strange blends like 5W20 or 5W30 or the really strange one 0W30. What is 0 weight oil? WD-40? I know they need it due to the close tolerances that some new engines have. This device that this guy is selling (or promoting) seems like a good idea but will it work in the long run? Only way to tell is to try one. Simple device, simply removing oil vapors from the PCV system before it passes into the intake.
@@larryhutchens7593 There are plenty of honest shops out there. We do what is right for the customer because we intend to have a long relationship with them.
Dump and fill. Some techs throw the drain plug back in while it's still dripping a fair amount. But doesn't take much to make new oil look like old oil.
@@larryhutchens7593 As owner of delearships (some high-end, other more mundane) and full mechanic shop, I always command to show the customer all changed parts, if possible, and show all boxes of new parts in its car and sometime offer some advices to avoid some problems that we've seen and parts are showing.
I added one to my 29 year old port injected v6 a little over 3 years ago using parts from Aliexpress. I wasn't expecting much but I reckon it catches >90% of the crankcase fumes as I don't have to wipe out crud from the plenum chamber anymore! My car doesn't have EGR, which adds a lot of crap as well. So if owners can disconnect EGR, it will improve things as well.
Nice thorough production Sir. One of the 1st things I did to my MK7 VW GTI (w/ Golf R Turbo), catch can with with removal of plastic PCV valve, after doing a chemical cleaning 1st. Clean out every oil change and the amount of crud is unbelievable.
Thanks for letting us know. I have a 2023 BMW X3 with about 11,000 miles. I do my oil changes at 5000 miles. Going to look into installing an oil catch can for sure! Appreciate you.
Blow by from low tension rings and EGR is recirculating from crankcase vapors. So it’s really not because it is a GDI it’s because it’s recirculating the vapors. Now GDI can’t wash it clean like a EFI in the intake. It happens on both types of injection it’s just noticeable on GDI. Good videos! Thanks
Manufactures do not add any mitigation items for this because they know it won't become an issue until it's out of warranty and then they can charge you to fix what they screwed up in the first place. The reason is simple.... money
But they screwed up on that badly. It's not uncommon for drivability problems due to dirty injectors to show up at 20k-30k miles and certainly by 60k when the warranty is over. Now they are losing their ass in warranty claims.
But many of manufacturers that had carbon build up problems in the past had to develop way more expensive changes to address them than using the catch can.
That's not true, Mazda found a mitigation that doesn't just last the warranty, it lasts the life of the vehicle. You just run the valves hot as f* and the problem is solved.
I tend to agree. I've never seen proof or any studies of catch can effectiveness. Catching some water with oil in it doesn't prove much to me. Plenty of 150,000 mile DI cars where the valves might look slightly ugly but there are no issues.
@@Robis_Grigoris Stuck PCV's are why crank seals start leaking in the first place. Catch cans and/or breathers are superior because there's nothing to fail. The EPA destroys everything.
This can happen to engines in the 25K to 60K range, not just high mileage engines. The answer is using oils better formulated to resist carbon buildup. Some technical labs from the motor oil companies feel the problem is related to intake valve seals not sealing properly. FORD has included in its ECO Boost engine line a dual injection system. This is where port injection and direct injection is being used.
Catch cans will help to mitigate the effects of direct fuel injection but the other thing about catch cans is they clod up with oil and water mist, then over time block the oil mist passages. In my cars, I remove the can each 30,000km to flush out the can tubes and change or clean the oil tubes running from the PCV and crank case to the can. Yep, a bit more service items but the engines are clean.
Our 2018 Ford and 2015 Honda have had catch can separators since almost new. There is always oil in each when checked each 1000 miles. It gives me some peace of mind. The Fords is not aftermarket but a Ford Performance for race car because they know they will be serviced…
Direct injection was invented over 100 years ago, and up until the last 10-15 years ago auto manufacturers didn't think the benefits outweighed the drawbacks. Now, their greed is showing, they can honestly report better fuel economy for higher sales, and get you again in higher maintenance to repair the results of those DI drawbacks! I'll sacrifice a few MPG's to have port injection, thank you.
Don’t forget, the car manufacturers are under tremendous pressure to achieve the ever increasing CAFE regulations imposed by the Feds. This is why they’re going to aluminum sheet metal to reduce weight, GDI engines, small 4 cylinder turbo charged engines, etc. (CAFE - corporate average fuel economy)
@@chdinct6792 Thanks for explaining the acronym 👍 Diesels with EGR and DPF Use Up to 36 percent more fuel to meet the emissions of savings the planet How is running the world out Of fuel faster better for the planet 😭
My sister in law had a near disaster on her Ford pick up that developed a leak in the fuel line somewhere between the low & high pressure system. Seems that the local dealership (yes, a Phord dealership) had replaced a section of the wiring harness that required removal of the intake manifold & that section of the fuel supply line. They either forgot to replace some O-rings or damaged same. She made it down here from Missouri to our place near Tulsa. When she got ready to leave she couldn't get the engine started. I noticed a strong smell of raw gas & saw gasoline running out under the truck. Lots of gas, a major leak. Long story short, we contacted the dealership in Missouri, told them where it was leaking (they had done the work only a few days before she left) and told us to take it to a local Ford dealer & they would cover the cost. She became seriously worried about the situation so my son bought the truck. We are aware of the direct injection/ twin turbo/ PCV carbon situation on those vehicles so I will tell my son about that device. Thanks for the video, you seem to run an honest shop.
On my 2020 F150 3.5l Ecoboost. At new. I bought the pickup new. I put two oil catch cans on it. The only problem I have had is the hoses. I went with the most high heat experience hoses. I have none stop problems with them. Just the hoses. Other than that. Zero problems. They do what they are supposed to do. Catch oil. Here, I have extreme cold winters. Zero problems. I do not regret it one bit. The pickup is pushing 30,000 miles. Thanks for sharing.
@b4ctrooper I was thinking about. The best engine and hp with the best setup for fuel mileage is the 3.5l Ecoboost with the 3.55 gears. What my pickup has. I just traded in. Hwy miles only. The more the pickup was run just down the hwy by itself. the better gas mileage. 36-gallon gas tank. Once. I filled it up. My range was 720 miles. I was running over 4 mph over the speed limit on cruise control. That setup is amazing. I will miss it badly. Life goes on.
@@b4ctrooper normal mode and in two wheel drive. It was a 4x4. No economy mode. Kills gas mileage. Shuts off the turbos. Decreased power. 18 to 22+ mpg.
Undersized engines, turbos, VVTs, CVTs, as well as GDI and its issues. I looked at all this unavoidable tech after 45 years of manual hatchbacks and went with a re-batteried Bolt EV. All the spinney bits running in ball bearings, quiet, and the quickest thing I'll ever own.
that's smart. makes you wonder why the big oem manufacturers arn't doing that anymore or why vw didn't continue. Volkswagen was first to start the walnut blasting if I remember
They designed it into the block and valve cover. Much better setup because it will stay warm and has no risk of freezing up. Look at the VW oil separator - it’s nothing like a typical PCV and once separated drains back to the block via an integrated channel in the head and block. BMW is the one recommending walnut blasting on a schedule. VW claims their cam timing and all keeps the valves clean enough that cleaning isn’t needed, at least for a long while. Pulling the intake off my ea888 gen3b at 70k miles for cleaning proved VW was generally correct. Minimal build up and cleaning did nothing for performance and idle.
@@briantii One issue with it is that a standalone can is seeing better cooling and therefore more oil condensation that could be fed back to the engine. Vehicle manufacturers want it cheap and yesterday.
Some cars now have both port and direct injection, at both low RPM and low throttle demand, the port injection is active, washing the intake with fuel. At either high RPM or heavy throttle application, it switches to direct injection. A catch can with a vacuum-activated drain back into the sump would be brilliant. It could never freeze, as it would drain periodically during operation and when off.
I'm not sure about other makes, but I drive Mazda Skyactiv cars and they take a while to build up carbon; to equal what you showed in this video which seems to be an extreme example, it would take north of 200k miles. I'll probably just take the head off and have it walnut blasted at some point as it doesn't seem to cause issues before at least 100k. As for the catch can, I've read enough accounts of crankcase venting problems, leaking main seals, frozen cans, and stinky garages (followed by removal of the catch can) that I'll probably just skip it. The problem you're showing is real and I'm not saying they don't help some cars, but at this point I don't think I'll spring for one. These engines also have an oil separator under the intake manifold.
Yes, the issue of the venting pressure and leaking seals need to be addressed. Place a catch can on the venting system will add pressure and in time that will cause the seal issues. It's unfortunate the OEMs took a while to address this use by adding the two types of injection systems (which adds to the cost of the vehicle).
That's why modern synthetic oil has some detergent added, so PCV and Valves have less bild up. Every manual from any manufacturer has one item about cleaning intake valves procedures and it's quite ease to do when things aren't so in despair. Some manufacturer, notably mercedes Toyota and VW, commands their ECU to run the engine in an extreme version of Miller cycle for to let gas vapours get in intake and clean valves or make the engine run preferably on Miller cycle. So a good quality gasoline and few tanks of high quality in between avoids this problem, also ALWAYS look to use gas with the best detergents and lubricants package on the market
3 місяці тому
What is a good quality gasoline? I buy QT 87 octane.
If you’re driving some high compression engine, 91 octane is better at least, but i don’t know your car and always follow instruction from your manufacturer. More important is additive package how your favorite gas station take care of the gas: not selling out of date gas, cleaning tanks regularly or take care of things accordingly
Professional "catch cans", they are called oil air separators, drain back into the oil pan with a pipe. A nice example is the Mann Provent filter series. There is no need to maintain. BTW, catch cans mostly collect water. Where are these separators installed by the OEMs? In trucks/HGVs!
Some modern cars do have factory catch cans. Only reason why it is not installed on all new cars is it is a manufacturing cost and engine issues are generally outside warranty - so a customer problem.
@@Blue-moon12Some of the Porsches have an air-oil separator, with the oil draining back into the oil pan and the air from the pcv returning to the intake as normal. I think Land Rover and many diesels do this too.
@@kenmorrisproducer The current and previous gen Honda civic also have an air oil separator, at least on the type r but presumably on all civics. It seems pretty effective - I installed an additional catch can on mine and there’s not much left for it to catch.
Biggest issue with eco boost,,,the oil monitoring SYSTEM and cheap oil . They know blow by is a problem, a big problem, it fills the intercooler with goop and the fix is to drill , drain , tap and plug , to get you home. We own a MB b250 is a GDI , NO ISSUES. mainly because I change my oil and filter on time and they built a turbo charged engine without BLOW BY problems. As an example Ford , in their wisdom, have a wet belt to run the oil pump, yes inside your expensive truck with twin turbos, your oil pump is run with a rubber belt that is inside the engine ,,,,,wtf. If you still have warranty, go to the dealer for service to cover your ass if you are making payments. ASE master tech in the day and shop foreman . Thanks for the video. The catch can is a must for trucks that tow. Peace on earth and ocean.
Added a catch can on my 2017 Yukon. It does what it is supposed to do. Now instead of oil carbonizing on the intake valves, I simply empty the catch can periodically. They are easy to install and how hard is it to unscrew the can and empty it periodically. Sense I only drive my Yukon in the summer months, the liquid in the can looks like oil. From what I understand, when driving in cold weather, the can will have a milkier looking substance due to condensation building up in the can due to temperature changes from hot to cold. Thanks for the informative and very important video.
I cleaned my Mazda SkyActiv valves with some walnut shells. It was easy and did wonders for the car. Took me 2 hours having never done it before. When the next 100,000 miles comes around, it'll take me 30 minutes.
@@TheVigilantEye77 Yeah, it is fast. But working on a Mazda is just that easy! With experience, you can easily have the intake manifold off in 5-ish minutes.
What you need to do is run a fuel system cleaner that sprays directly past the throttle about once a year or 15K miles from brand new. Preventative maintenance is the best way
Occasional water injection should go a long way to addressing carbon build up on the valves and pistons it is one of the variations of the Italian tune up
Thanks for this recommendation. I've been going to do this for a while now. I have a 2019 Toyota Yaris (Mazda 2) with a 1.5L DI engine. Every 5,000 miles I run a can of crc intake valve and turbo cleaner through the manifold as directed the same afternoon I do the oil change. I haven't run a bore scope to check to see if it works, but I'm at 72,000 mi now with no issues. My engine hates the cleaner. It coughs and gags, and just generally runs rough later in the process, and I always have to clear a "running rich" code afterward. It seems like I'm abusing the engine, and seems to be a case of, "is the medicine worse than the illness". I would rather use a catch can, and then use the cleaner a couple more cycle to clean off any remaining deposits, and then just use the catch can alone.
If you're a professional mechanic/technician you should also have mentioned another contributing factor being worn or faulty inlet valve guides and seals. High engine vacuum will pull oil down the guide over the valve head and into the cylinder. This may not be an issue on a brand new engine but wear takes it's toll. The use of very thin viscosity synthetic oils on modern engines only exacerbate the issue. Once oil gets into the combustion chamber you can forget about all of the clean air BS issuing from these engines.
Good point. Being a dealer tech I didn't get to deal with valve guide issues that far Down the road. Vehicles stopped coming after warrenty was gone or they got traded in and shipped across country. I do know those little carbon deposits are like sand paper for valve guides at end of the day. Only a matter of time
A friend had almost no oil on the dipstick, just the very end. I said, "you need to add some oil to this engine." Friend said, "that's what they do when I pay for an oil change." (Which was due to 2 months) And that car is now for sale. (An under maintained money bomb)
Love that they added a brand new just about guaranteed failure state to every new car in exchange for marginal gains in fuel economy, a couple MPG, nothing special. Make the engine and the car smaller for even larger gains? Absolutely not, unthinkable, criminal, but if it plugs up just after the warranty period, that's not our problem.
4.6L Towncar engine gets clogged EGR passages due to the valveseals giving up around 110kmiles. wonder if the dominant oil vapor is from the PCV valve? Catchcan would be the best solution for them 4.6Ls if so. Valveseals are a big job on that OHC V8.
My 04 Volvo has a huge OEM oil catch chamber built-into the crankcase vent system that's good for 100,000 miles before it needs cleaning or replacing. It's too big to have problems with freezing or filling up with oil.
@@Lancemechanics Yes. The problem is that the catch can needs to be serviced periodically (drained and cleaned), and that servicing is often not listed in the maintenance manual, so people don't know they need to do it. Without this, the catch can fills up with oil and stops doing its job.
I find modern cars (since 2014) simply don't last, it's like they are built to start failing at about the 3 year mark so I started leasing and with a leased vehicle I care even less about maintenance. My 2010 Crown Vic is awesome & I hope to keep driving it for 20+ more years & your oil capture can is a great idea for this car.
I have a 2011 f150 with the 3.5l eco boost engine that does not have the post injection, and have installed catch cans both on the intake and exhaust side and use Amsoil oil formulated for lower vaporization. The intake can was accumulating about 3/4” to 1” of oil every 6k miles, and with the Amsoil I am getting about half.
Sometimes I diagnose carbon on the valves by looking for negative fuel trims and misfire counts before and after an induction service. If both improve a bit it's a good indication of carbon build up. Then I usually yank the intake and blast it away with walnut shells. Made a lot of money on Volkswagens.
This is old technology that plagues the first GDI engines that came out in the late 2000s/early 2010s (BMW, LExus, VW, Audi). Most new GDI engines have an oil separator in the PCV system now to avoid this issue. Putting an aftermarket jerry-rigged catch can reduces the ability of the built in system to do its job.
@@milfordcivic6755 GDI has been around since at least the 1960s.. they didn't go with it because it was obvious back then that valves would get clogged.. Engineers today are morons, they can't even build a road that lasts 8 years anymore.
Use quality fuel, regularly take your vehicle on a 30+ minute run at high rev's low load, do frequent (6 month / 3k mile, whichever sooner) oil changes, consider buying a Toyota which has dual injectors (port + direct) which periodically washes the intake valves with fuel.
@@rusack7174 *"But, what if I don't want a Toyota?"* I know of no other brand that -gives a siht about it's customers like this- employs this technique. *"Also, not all Toyota GDI engines emply the D-4S system."* Which is why I said "consider buying a Toyota _which_ has dual injectors". Vote with your money and favour brands which not only want to sell you your next vehicle but your next 7 vehicles.
120 years later you’d think they’d know how to build an engine by now. To the people saying dual injection systems are the answer, that just adds another level of complexity and over engineering to the matter.
Change the oil every 5000 miles to avoid problems. Bmw recommends enough oil changes to get the car to the end of the lease. After that they don't care.
Thank you very much for verifying why I did install one of these on my 2016 F150 XLT 5.0 4x4. Easy to install and easy to service, I also do my own oil changes. Does running any type of fuel system cleaner help at all?
It will help keep the top of the pistons clean and help more with the injectors. Some of the spray does possibly touch the edge of the valve, but it's arguably not enough to clean it.
Problem is by time they get the walnut blasts done the oil control rings are completely carboned up too. So you need to r-ring the bottom end at the same time. I did this religiously on Honda gdi engines. was always asking Our engineering department why we didn't do this and it was Liability. maintenance items are more costly long term then just warranting a couple engines
My friend bought a new 2020 Kia GDI and it was serviced by the selling dealership every 5,000 miles. It died at 146,000 and they wanted $ 7,500 to replace the engine.
I used to have a Chrysler Conquest and A fix for a fuel adder if you added boost was to add another fuel injector in the intake pipe. I thought about this when this whole gunky valve/Direct injection foolishness first became a thing. They’re sort of doing that now- port and direct injection. The best solution to the problem. Or, buy something old.😂
Well engineered engines have PROPER oil separators built-in!!! Some makers play with valve timing to clean the valves. In other words, this is only a problem for older GDI designs or current cheaper engines that do not have the valve timing control.
Catch can, regular oil changes and drive the vehicle hard now and then seems to be the best way with DI engines. Have a catch can on 2 DI engine vehicles I own. I live in Canada and had no issues in the freezing weather either.
Hardest thing to diagnose? Shove a camera in the intake if you are experiencing a misfire on a car with DI. If the valves look like a coal mine it’s prudent to clean and re-evaluate the misfire.
Your out of touch. You realise what happens if your wrong. Some of these engines are multiple hours to get to the intake valves then the cleaning its self. So your spending 700 plus on a visual to find out a it could be a ecm update or a bad head gasket that misfires only after sitting for a bit. Or a spark plug or coil with carbon tracking. You have much to learn
@@Lancemechanics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Idk boss. The internet seems to think that carbon buildup with DI is far more common than the other failures you listed, which moves it up the proverbial totem pole of potential failures. Thanks for insulting my intelligence though.
get out on the highway, drive at 4-5k rpm steady for 20-30 minutes once per year. I'm likely the only person that had a TSI VW that went to almost 300k miles and never needed carbon cleaning.
There is no fix for this problem. You are absolutely correct in that a catch can will mitigate the problem, but some of the oily vapors get through. Catch cans can buy you some time but eventually the intake valves will be encrusted with carbon. Several auto manufacturers have switched over to a dual fuel delivery system that cycles between direst injection and the old port fuel injection which allows the fuel to wash away the oily deposits. I know of a Corvette which had direct injection only that needed a valve job after only 4000 miles. The only way to ensure a direct injection engine will not have carbon build up on the intake valves is to eliminate the catch can and vent into the atmosphere. To be a little bit more environmentally responsible, one could use a catch can but not connect it to the PCV system. Most of the oil will be caught in the can but some of it won't. Life can be complicated.
It's not all modern engines!! My buddy and I had 2014 Silverados With the new Lt v8. He had 154,000 miles on his, I had 148,000 on mine. Neither one of us had any issues with the engine at all!! When we traded the trucks in we were still in the mid too low 24 MPG average. GM has the issue figured out at least with the 5.3s other car companies do not...
I ran the hose from my valve cover straight into the dump pipe bend of the turbo. Natural crank case pressure and the venturi effect in the dump pipe draws all vapour out and the extreme temperature and fire in the dump pipe burns the vapour. Eliminating both the original problem and catch can servicing
in addition, most engines, the intake valve closes after bottom dead center. So definitely at slow engine speeds Some of the mixture in the cylinder gets pumped right back out the intake valve.. this is by design to produce really good power in the mid range and higher RPM. But they didn’t think about it with the direct injection obviously. My guess is at this problem is worse for people that barely ever get their engine above 2000 or 3000 RPM and not quite as bad for folks that have it in the higher RPM all the time
Eliminate PCV system from introducing oil into the induction system in the first place. Direct injection washes oil off of cylinder walls and causes wear and tear. DI engines also exoerience low speed preignition, and is destructive to pistons.
If catch cans were needed they would fit them from new. Change your oil every 6000 miles like we did before the lease companies started to dictate the service intervals.
If the PCV valve vents into the air cleaner box upstream of the air filter, would the air filter stop the discharge from reaching the intake valves? Would the carbon buildup be better or worse on an Atkinson cycle GDI engine?
While I loved W123 body Benz's (Did my mechanic apprenticeship at a Benz dealer) you could almost run faster than a 240D. 300D Turbo engines puked oil from what seemed like every orifice. I was constantly resealing vacuum pumps, sub oil pans, valve covers and oil filter canister gaskets!
Toyota implements direct injection, however they also have an extra injector that sprays a small amount of gas onto the valves. Problem solved. Why don't other manufacturers implement this dual injection system? They want to sell you another new car sooner. All manufacturers know if this direct injection design flaw and Toyota's way of mitigating this but don't care
Ford started doing that dual injector setup on their 3.5 Ecoboost in 2017. (My brother owned a 2017 F-150 Limited). Not sure when Toyota rolled out theirs or if other auto makers have joined in. Seems to me though that a dual injector setup is adding complexity and makes me wonder if DI benefits are worth it. I recently purchased a 2008 Tundra and one of the things I like is the relative simplicity of it. Yes it is a somewhat modern engine with VVT and such but compared to the new twin-turbo, direct injection, hybrid, auto stop, AFM/DFM, DOD, etc. engines out there it's a less complicated and more reliable engine. The absurd number of recalls combined with the outrageous sticker prices makes me wonder how automakers sell as many new vehicles as they do.
Longer oil change intervals, carbon built up in the ring lands, low tension piston rings get stuck, more blowby and everything Lance just said happens quicker. Be old school change your oil more frequently than the dealers says. Cheap insurance. ..... and get a catch can
Imagine the gal of auto makers to start pushing 10k oil change intervals at the same time as transitioning everything to GDI. It's almost like they want engines to fail just out of warranty period.
A big problem with oil catch cans that you have overlooked. They also catch water from water vapor. Water freezes in cold climates. This will eventually plug your PCV system, and start to cause other serious problems like blowiing seals.
On newer Toyota engines they use both port and direct injection. Depending on the computer programming, it goes back and forth so the port injectors help keep the valves clean, and the direct injectors for better efficiency.
wow, which Toyota engines have this alternating fuel delivery tech?
@@almostbutnotentirelyunreas166 Corolla 2.0 Hybrid for one
@@almostbutnotentirelyunreas166 any engine that has what toyota and lexus call their D4S system, i own a 2010 lexus GS 350 and it has a 2GR-FSE engine with that system
Even Hyundai/Kia has it now in their 2020+ Smart Stream engines that replaced the notorious 2011-2019 Theta II GDI engines.
Also direct injection reduces torque in favour of horsepower, so Toyota engines use port injection at lower revs.
i was a mechanic years ago . i had this real old school guy show me his home made catch can on his 64 triumph 1300 car . i was so impressed he had put a old gas valve on the bottom of a tin can that teed into his dip stick via a bit of rubber pipe and to drain it all he had to do was open the valve every so often .
he said he went from topping the oil up every month to never having to top it up .
Amazing :)
If you are waiting 15K miles to change your oil, then you should not own a vehicle with GDI
If you are waiting 15K miles to change your oil, then you should not own a vehicle period.
Catch can is only partial answer to GDI engines. Manufacturers recommends 7.5k to 10k oil change these days. If you wait for 7.5k and oops another 1-2k slip by and your piston rings will get gummed up after few slip ups. Most people are driving under severe condition. Just do your oil change every 5k and you don't need to worry about stuck piston rings.
@@hukim0531 I change the oil and filter on both of my cars at 5K intervals. The 2009 Honda Fit isn't a GDI so no worries there. The 2020 Hyundai Accent is a dual port design so that's where the extra caution will help.
@@jeffstieren4474 yeah and maybe a one speed bicycle would be a better choice for them
@@Rick-S-6063Exactly
I agree with your opinion. I have installed 3 small Catch Cans in 3 different vehicles. They will work to great extent if installed correctly. First, don't spend crazy money on those Marketed name brands that dont perform any better than some cheaper units. Second,Make sure it has a golden micro filter inside to restrict any oil vapors. Third, chose one that has a bottom ball valve so you can easily dain the can. Forth, run a hose from the bottom of the can to the underside of the vehicle for easy no mess draining.
Depending on the vehicle, 1 or more ounces may accumulate in the can between oil changes.
Still I highly recommend using CRC Intake and Turbo Cleaner via PCV Valve inlet or Throttle Body to minimize any residual contamination on intake valves. Do this every 10K or so miles and you shouldn't have any heavy deposits that would require expensive Walnut Blasting or engine tear down.
Brand recommendations would help!
You really drain crappy oil onto the ground? Maybe save it and add to recycled waste oil from oil changes.
@@alandaters8547I believe he means running a hose from the valve on the bottom of the can to a place that you could drain it into the same oil change pan that you drain your engine oil into.
What can of catch can do you used.Orville help a lot of people with GDI engine crap.
@@alandaters8547 You drain it in the oil tray when changing your motor oil and filter. Always dispose of your used motor oil at the Parts Store or Authorized Recycling Centers.
Great idea, I can think of a number of engines that can benefit from this Tech Tip.
Thank you, good video.
Happy Thanksgiving. 👍🇺🇸👍
I installed an oil catch can on my 2017 Camaro SS1LE right after I brought it home new. That's the time to do it, before any build up occurs. So easy to install; it's a no brainer. I empty about 2 ounces from it every 3K-5K miles. 7 years, 45K miles and over 30 track days later, engine still runs great.
They are fantastic. People are skeptical but once you know better they are worth it
@@Lancemechanics Liked & Subscribed! 👍
Have one on 15 f150 2.7 and c5 corvette they work great
I have them on a 2017 Stingray and my daily 2023 F150 3.5 ecoboost. Both systems work well. The oil I drain out of the catch can from the Ford is black, winter or summer. About a tablespoon every 1500 miles. I run J&L brand.
Thank You So Much for the informative and very relevant automotive video. I have experience installing and maintaining the PCV oil catch canisters, AND THEY WORK. If anyone who performs regular automotive engine oil/filter changes would use one only once they would clearly see the used motor oil being recycled through their engine(s) and no stall one only once they every vehicle they were responsible for or appreciated. Keep up the good videos. Have A Productive Day! 🛻🚚🚛
Yet another valid reason to keep your older, simpler vehicle running. New ideas and technology are just bungling up our vehicles making them more prone to expensive repairs.
I'm all for repairing then buying new.
How old, and how simple? My ‘01 mustang had a catch can.
Just avoid GDI engines. I retired from Lexus in 2012, and even than ,we had already port and direct injection combined. Its very fashionable to dislike Toyota ( Lexus) but lets face it, there is a reason why they are number 1 in longevity and durability.
Very nicely done clip, keep at it Lance, greetings from YVR.
They are almost all GDI now.
2003 Toyota 2005 honda 2008 mazda still going strong here
You don't need to double up your injectors when you just run the valves hot (how is doubling a critical part like that improving reliability?). Mazda solved this with skyactiv back in 2012 with no extra parts and no downsides.
Change your oil every 5k miles use synthetic oil, keep you oil level top up. Use Red Line Fuel injector treatment every oil change. Oil Additives every oil change like Liqui Moly or maybe 30k miles with the Liqui Moly. People saying change your oil every 10k miles get a bicycle.
Skip to 2:36. An oil catch can does help. The solution is port and direct injection.
No it doesn't. Find a single video that proves it.
@@ToddMcDonald-zh4ym no I believe science that says that catch cans dont reduce carbon buildup
@Robis_Grigoris I have a catch can on both my vehicles. 2018 Genesis G80 Sport and a 2023 Frontier Pro 4x. No issues and they seem to be doing their job and I live in Canada.
Correct. All those formulated gasolines with the great carbon cleaners are useless when delivered by GDI. The ONLY way to keep valves clean of carbon build-up is to wash them with fuel. Period. Hybridized systems with a separate injector for the intake runner help resolve the problem. Catch-cans help a bit but GDI is design flaw when combined with PCV recirculation.
water/meth injection also solves it
Yes, I installed a catch can on my civic 1.5 Turbo.
It works really well.
Don't see much in it in warm weather but in winter hear in Manitoba Canada with warm up etc. it can fill the can within 2 oil changes, 5 k changes.
I think its a must, at least for my civic.
Got same engine in my 22 civic. Worked at Honda for 5 years. Can't stress how important these are and specially those oil changes. :) good stuff man
BG came out with a valve treatment 3 years ago. Every 15k and you are good. I am a master tech with 20+ years in the trade. BG makes good stuff. I am not affiliated with BG products as anything but a customer. I have seen carbon buildup cause misfires on cold statrup at 30k miles. This happens on cars that tend to make short frequent trips. Catch cans are more for the gearhead type person.
Over 3 years ago they came out with the 2nd variation of the gdi treatment, and they had another more labor intensive one before that
"Throwing Wrenches into your Trouble Shooting Tree."
Quote of the year candidate.
The wrenches were never seen again.
Just talked to a local at the petrol station café who commutes a Mini and had this problem. Changed oil at 15 tkm. Will tip him on this. He was strongly leaning towards bying a EV! Cheers from Finland.
New technology seems to be really tough on the older generation.
My grandfather owned cars with pushrod V6 engines for years, he was used to being able to put any old slop in the oil pan that was cheapest. Finally one day he totaled his old Buick and needed a new car, and bought a Chevrolet Impala with the 3.6L V6 engine.
I tried to warn him it wasn’t a good idea, what made it worse was he bought it cheap from an auction. After he bought it I warned him about the 3.6L V6. I told him you have to use synthetic engine oil with detergents in it, and you have to change it regularly because it has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection! He did not heed my warning.
He proceeded to put conventional 5W-30 Motor oil in it because that’s what he was running on his old Buick, and within little time at all the engine was having all sorts of issues. He later then after being told by his under the table mechanic that he needs to run synthetic oil, tried telling me that I should do the same with my cars.
I politely told him… i tried warning you about that, my car (Which had a 3800 V6) doesn’t require synthetic oil, but I have been using Royal Purple which is one of the best synthetic oils you can get, since i bought my car.
This from an older generation type person who is up to date on the new technology. Something that hasn't changed is the dealership or auto repair shop scam. This fella seems to be a fairly honest guy but in the auto repair business he would be a rarity. Oil changes? Who do you trust to do one for you? The quickie lube joint who might charge you for synthetic oil but actually install some cheap bulk oil instead. The dealership? Might do the same only charge more. Now we have these direct injection, twin turbo gasoline engines that require special care and we have no idea if the dealership or the mechanic is being honest or just feeding us a line of crap. And, yes, Ford has a twin turbo engine. They have a low pressure turbo & a high pressure turbo. In the old radial aircraft engines that had to operate at high altitudes we called it low blow & hi blow because they had a 2 speed supercharger. Same old problem only compounded by hi tech. And not all new engines require synthetic oil. Strange blends like 5W20 or 5W30 or the really strange one 0W30. What is 0 weight oil? WD-40? I know they need it due to the close tolerances that some new engines have. This device that this guy is selling (or promoting) seems like a good idea but will it work in the long run? Only way to tell is to try one. Simple device, simply removing oil vapors from the PCV system before it passes into the intake.
@@larryhutchens7593 There are plenty of honest shops out there. We do what is right for the customer because we intend to have a long relationship with them.
Dump and fill. Some techs throw the drain plug back in while it's still dripping a fair amount. But doesn't take much to make new oil look like old oil.
@@larryhutchens7593 As owner of delearships (some high-end, other more mundane) and full mechanic shop, I always command to show the customer all changed parts, if possible, and show all boxes of new parts in its car and sometime offer some advices to avoid some problems that we've seen and parts are showing.
Boomers 😂
This video reminded me that I hand checked my catch can in a while. I checked it and it was about 3/4 full...
I added a catch can to mine.
Then I fixed the engine and it stopped filling up.
If it’s filling up
You got blow by.
Period.
I added one to my 29 year old port injected v6 a little over 3 years ago using parts from Aliexpress. I wasn't expecting much but I reckon it catches >90% of the crankcase fumes as I don't have to wipe out crud from the plenum chamber anymore! My car doesn't have EGR, which adds a lot of crap as well. So if owners can disconnect EGR, it will improve things as well.
Nice thorough production Sir. One of the 1st things I did to my MK7 VW GTI (w/ Golf R Turbo), catch can with with removal of plastic PCV valve, after doing a chemical cleaning 1st. Clean out every oil change and the amount of crud is unbelievable.
Thanks for letting us know. I have a 2023 BMW X3 with about 11,000 miles. I do my oil changes at 5000 miles. Going to look into installing an oil catch can for sure! Appreciate you.
@@ToddMcDonald-zh4ymYeah only top tier fuel for sure. Crazy that BMW does oil changes every 10,000 miles.
Blow by from low tension rings and EGR is recirculating from crankcase vapors. So it’s really not because it is a GDI it’s because it’s recirculating the vapors. Now GDI can’t wash it clean like a EFI in the intake. It happens on both types of injection it’s just noticeable on GDI. Good videos! Thanks
I'm putting an L8T in a classic truck, these Gen 5 SBC engines have this problem too. Thanks for the tip!!
Glad to help
Manufactures do not add any mitigation items for this because they know it won't become an issue until it's out of warranty and then they can charge you to fix what they screwed up in the first place. The reason is simple.... money
But they screwed up on that badly. It's not uncommon for drivability problems due to dirty injectors to show up at 20k-30k miles and certainly by 60k when the warranty is over. Now they are losing their ass in warranty claims.
Oh you are just SO cynical Nick! (I love it!)
But many of manufacturers that had carbon build up problems in the past had to develop way more expensive changes to address them than using the catch can.
That's not true, Mazda found a mitigation that doesn't just last the warranty, it lasts the life of the vehicle. You just run the valves hot as f* and the problem is solved.
Catch cans are a placebo. Vapers still get past it and the can freezes up in the winter causing more issues.
I tend to agree. I've never seen proof or any studies of catch can effectiveness. Catching some water with oil in it doesn't prove much to me. Plenty of 150,000 mile DI cars where the valves might look slightly ugly but there are no issues.
A frozen pcv can be brutal. Had one case where a frozen pcv caused a rear main seal to jump out of the engine block wich caused a massive oil leak.
@@Robis_Grigoris Stuck PCV's are why crank seals start leaking in the first place. Catch cans and/or breathers are superior because there's nothing to fail. The EPA destroys everything.
Can always vent to atmosphere to guarantee no oil mist consumption by the engine
Spot on. Way more hassle and risk than they are worth.
This can happen to engines in the 25K to 60K range, not just high mileage engines. The answer is using oils better formulated to resist carbon buildup. Some technical labs from the motor oil companies feel the problem is related to intake valve seals not sealing properly. FORD has included in its ECO Boost engine line a dual injection system. This is where port injection and direct injection is being used.
Catch cans will help to mitigate the effects of direct fuel injection but the other thing about catch cans is they clod up with oil and water mist, then over time block the oil mist passages. In my cars, I remove the can each 30,000km to flush out the can tubes and change or clean the oil tubes running from the PCV and crank case to the can. Yep, a bit more service items but the engines are clean.
Appreciate the input. As I mentioned later in the video it's a high maintenance item and not for people who can barely manage oil changes :)
Our 2018 Ford and 2015 Honda have had catch can separators since almost new. There is always oil in each when checked each 1000 miles. It gives me some peace of mind. The Fords is not aftermarket but a Ford Performance for race car because they know they will be serviced…
Coming from the honda side of things you did the right thing! :)
Direct injection was invented over 100 years ago, and up until the last 10-15 years ago auto manufacturers didn't think the benefits outweighed the drawbacks. Now, their greed is showing, they can honestly report better fuel economy for higher sales, and get you again in higher maintenance to repair the results of those DI drawbacks! I'll sacrifice a few MPG's to have port injection, thank you.
Very Well Said!!!!!!!!!!
I love direct injection
Diesel only 😮
Don’t forget, the car manufacturers are under tremendous pressure to achieve the ever increasing CAFE regulations imposed by the Feds. This is why they’re going to aluminum sheet metal to reduce weight, GDI engines, small 4 cylinder turbo charged engines, etc. (CAFE - corporate average fuel economy)
@@chdinct6792
Thanks for explaining the acronym 👍
Diesels with EGR and DPF
Use Up to 36 percent more fuel to meet the emissions of savings the planet
How is running the world out Of fuel faster better for the planet 😭
It's the EPAs fault.
My sister in law had a near disaster on her Ford pick up that developed a leak in the fuel line somewhere between the low & high pressure system. Seems that the local dealership (yes, a Phord dealership) had replaced a section of the wiring harness that required removal of the intake manifold & that section of the fuel supply line. They either forgot to replace some O-rings or damaged same. She made it down here from Missouri to our place near Tulsa. When she got ready to leave she couldn't get the engine started. I noticed a strong smell of raw gas & saw gasoline running out under the truck. Lots of gas, a major leak. Long story short, we contacted the dealership in Missouri, told them where it was leaking (they had done the work only a few days before she left) and told us to take it to a local Ford dealer & they would cover the cost. She became seriously worried about the situation so my son bought the truck. We are aware of the direct injection/ twin turbo/ PCV carbon situation on those vehicles so I will tell my son about that device. Thanks for the video, you seem to run an honest shop.
On my 2020 F150 3.5l Ecoboost. At new. I bought the pickup new. I put two oil catch cans on it. The only problem I have had is the hoses. I went with the most high heat experience hoses. I have none stop problems with them. Just the hoses. Other than that. Zero problems. They do what they are supposed to do. Catch oil. Here, I have extreme cold winters. Zero problems. I do not regret it one bit. The pickup is pushing 30,000 miles. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@Lancemechanics You're welcome.
I could’ve set up on my eco-boost. Instead of rubber hoses I had sprinkler pipe laying around. I used that and I’ve never had an issue.
@b4ctrooper I was thinking about. The best engine and hp with the best setup for fuel mileage is the 3.5l Ecoboost with the 3.55 gears. What my pickup has. I just traded in. Hwy miles only. The more the pickup was run just down the hwy by itself. the better gas mileage. 36-gallon gas tank. Once. I filled it up. My range was 720 miles. I was running over 4 mph over the speed limit on cruise control. That setup is amazing. I will miss it badly. Life goes on.
@@b4ctrooper normal mode and in two wheel drive. It was a 4x4. No economy mode. Kills gas mileage. Shuts off the turbos. Decreased power. 18 to 22+ mpg.
Undersized engines, turbos, VVTs, CVTs, as well as GDI and its issues. I looked at all this unavoidable tech after 45 years of manual hatchbacks and went with a re-batteried Bolt EV. All the spinney bits running in ball bearings, quiet, and the quickest thing I'll ever own.
Vw had an oem catch can back in day. It had a drain to the block. Heavy trucks use a crankcase ventilation that drains the oil back.
that's smart. makes you wonder why the big oem manufacturers arn't doing that anymore or why vw didn't continue. Volkswagen was first to start the walnut blasting if I remember
They designed it into the block and valve cover. Much better setup because it will stay warm and has no risk of freezing up. Look at the VW oil separator - it’s nothing like a typical PCV and once separated drains back to the block via an integrated channel in the head and block. BMW is the one recommending walnut blasting on a schedule. VW claims their cam timing and all keeps the valves clean enough that cleaning isn’t needed, at least for a long while. Pulling the intake off my ea888 gen3b at 70k miles for cleaning proved VW was generally correct. Minimal build up and cleaning did nothing for performance and idle.
@@LancemechanicsThey’re still doing it, just have improved it to the point where it’s not a standalone can anymore.
@@briantii One issue with it is that a standalone can is seeing better cooling and therefore more oil condensation that could be fed back to the engine.
Vehicle manufacturers want it cheap and yesterday.
Some cars now have both port and direct injection, at both low RPM and low throttle demand, the port injection is active, washing the intake with fuel.
At either high RPM or heavy throttle application, it switches to direct injection.
A catch can with a vacuum-activated drain back into the sump would be brilliant. It could never freeze, as it would drain periodically during operation and when off.
I'm not sure about other makes, but I drive Mazda Skyactiv cars and they take a while to build up carbon; to equal what you showed in this video which seems to be an extreme example, it would take north of 200k miles. I'll probably just take the head off and have it walnut blasted at some point as it doesn't seem to cause issues before at least 100k. As for the catch can, I've read enough accounts of crankcase venting problems, leaking main seals, frozen cans, and stinky garages (followed by removal of the catch can) that I'll probably just skip it. The problem you're showing is real and I'm not saying they don't help some cars, but at this point I don't think I'll spring for one. These engines also have an oil separator under the intake manifold.
Yes, the issue of the venting pressure and leaking seals need to be addressed. Place a catch can on the venting system will add pressure and in time that will cause the seal issues. It's unfortunate the OEMs took a while to address this use by adding the two types of injection systems (which adds to the cost of the vehicle).
That's why modern synthetic oil has some detergent added, so PCV and Valves have less bild up. Every manual from any manufacturer has one item about cleaning intake valves procedures and it's quite ease to do when things aren't so in despair. Some manufacturer, notably mercedes Toyota and VW, commands their ECU to run the engine in an extreme version of Miller cycle for to let gas vapours get in intake and clean valves or make the engine run preferably on Miller cycle. So a good quality gasoline and few tanks of high quality in between avoids this problem, also ALWAYS look to use gas with the best detergents and lubricants package on the market
What is a good quality gasoline? I buy QT 87 octane.
If you’re driving some high compression engine, 91 octane is better at least, but i don’t know your car and always follow instruction from your manufacturer. More important is additive package how your favorite gas station take care of the gas: not selling out of date gas, cleaning tanks regularly or take care of things accordingly
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us common folk. God bless you.
You are very welcome
Professional "catch cans", they are called oil air separators, drain back into the oil pan with a pipe. A nice example is the Mann Provent filter series. There is no need to maintain. BTW, catch cans mostly collect water. Where are these separators installed by the OEMs? In trucks/HGVs!
4th fella to mention that
Some modern cars do have factory catch cans. Only reason why it is not installed on all new cars is it is a manufacturing cost and engine issues are generally outside warranty - so a customer problem.
Which cars have them?
@@Blue-moon12Some of the Porsches have an air-oil separator, with the oil draining back into the oil pan and the air from the pcv returning to the intake as normal. I think Land Rover and many diesels do this too.
@@kenmorrisproducer The current and previous gen Honda civic also have an air oil separator, at least on the type r but presumably on all civics.
It seems pretty effective - I installed an additional catch can on mine and there’s not much left for it to catch.
@@Blue-moon12Porsche
Biggest issue with eco boost,,,the oil monitoring SYSTEM and cheap oil . They know blow by is a problem, a big problem, it fills the intercooler with goop and the fix is to drill , drain , tap and plug , to get you home. We own a MB b250 is a GDI , NO ISSUES. mainly because I change my oil and filter on time and they built a turbo charged engine without BLOW BY problems. As an example Ford , in their wisdom, have a wet belt to run the oil pump, yes inside your expensive truck with twin turbos, your oil pump is run with a rubber belt that is inside the engine ,,,,,wtf. If you still have warranty, go to the dealer for service to cover your ass if you are making payments. ASE master tech in the day and shop foreman . Thanks for the video. The catch can is a must for trucks that tow. Peace on earth and ocean.
Sounds like they need a full time Seafoam I.V. drip.
Had a similar thought
Thanks for showing us this trick.
Added a catch can on my 2017 Yukon. It does what it is supposed to do. Now instead of oil carbonizing on the intake valves, I simply empty the catch can periodically. They are easy to install and how hard is it to unscrew the can and empty it periodically. Sense I only drive my Yukon in the summer months, the liquid in the can looks like oil. From what I understand, when driving in cold weather, the can will have a milkier looking substance due to condensation building up in the can due to temperature changes from hot to cold. Thanks for the informative and very important video.
Ty for response. Love seeing people who are already using it.
I cleaned my Mazda SkyActiv valves with some walnut shells. It was easy and did wonders for the car. Took me 2 hours having never done it before. When the next 100,000 miles comes around, it'll take me 30 minutes.
HOW ?
With a media blaster.
@@michaelbloom5342 I meant heads off on a stand ? On car ? How to keep walnut bits out of engine to avoid damage ?
@@michaelbloom5342 30 minutes seems fast to access valves clean and clean up 🧐
@@TheVigilantEye77 Yeah, it is fast. But working on a Mazda is just that easy! With experience, you can easily have the intake manifold off in 5-ish minutes.
Need some cleaner sprayed into the intake every so often
What you need to do is run a fuel system cleaner that sprays directly past the throttle about once a year or 15K miles from brand new. Preventative maintenance is the best way
Occasional water injection should go a long way to addressing carbon build up on the valves and pistons it is one of the variations of the Italian tune up
Thanks for this recommendation. I've been going to do this for a while now. I have a 2019 Toyota Yaris (Mazda 2) with a 1.5L DI engine. Every 5,000 miles I run a can of crc intake valve and turbo cleaner through the manifold as directed the same afternoon I do the oil change. I haven't run a bore scope to check to see if it works, but I'm at 72,000 mi now with no issues. My engine hates the cleaner. It coughs and gags, and just generally runs rough later in the process, and I always have to clear a "running rich" code afterward. It seems like I'm abusing the engine, and seems to be a case of, "is the medicine worse than the illness". I would rather use a catch can, and then use the cleaner a couple more cycle to clean off any remaining deposits, and then just use the catch can alone.
The only catch can I would consider is made by Mann-Hummel. It has a replacement cartridge filter that can be changed out. Add to regular service.
Get an IAG air/ oil separator. It's heated by engine coolant, and requires no maintenance. Oil drains back into the block
Will check it out :)
i recall a lot of early (60s/70s) Austin/Morris engines had an oil 'seperator' in the crankcase ventilation hose.
This is why Toyota still use the hybrid system with an injector in the intake stream.
If you're a professional mechanic/technician you should also have mentioned another contributing factor being worn or faulty inlet valve guides and seals. High engine vacuum will pull oil down the guide over the valve head and into the cylinder. This may not be an issue on a brand new engine but wear takes it's toll. The use of very thin viscosity synthetic oils on modern engines only exacerbate the issue. Once oil gets into the combustion chamber you can forget about all of the clean air BS issuing from these engines.
Good point. Being a dealer tech I didn't get to deal with valve guide issues that far Down the road. Vehicles stopped coming after warrenty was gone or they got traded in and shipped across country. I do know those little carbon deposits are like sand paper for valve guides at end of the day. Only a matter of time
A friend had almost no oil on the dipstick, just the very end.
I said, "you need to add some oil to this engine."
Friend said, "that's what they do when I pay for an oil change." (Which was due to 2 months)
And that car is now for sale. (An under maintained money bomb)
Love that they added a brand new just about guaranteed failure state to every new car in exchange for marginal gains in fuel economy, a couple MPG, nothing special. Make the engine and the car smaller for even larger gains? Absolutely not, unthinkable, criminal, but if it plugs up just after the warranty period, that's not our problem.
Blame US government mandates.
4.6L Towncar engine gets clogged EGR passages due to the valveseals giving up around 110kmiles. wonder if the dominant oil vapor is from the PCV valve? Catchcan would be the best solution for them 4.6Ls if so. Valveseals are a big job on that OHC V8.
My 04 Volvo has a huge OEM oil catch chamber built-into the crankcase vent system that's good for 100,000 miles before it needs cleaning or replacing. It's too big to have problems with freezing or filling up with oil.
The oil catch can does help. Some manufacturers (such as Mazda) already do this from the factory. But all of them should.
That's great :)
@@Lancemechanics Yes. The problem is that the catch can needs to be serviced periodically (drained and cleaned), and that servicing is often not listed in the maintenance manual, so people don't know they need to do it. Without this, the catch can fills up with oil and stops doing its job.
I find modern cars (since 2014) simply don't last, it's like they are built to start failing at about the 3 year mark so I started leasing and with a leased vehicle I care even less about maintenance. My 2010 Crown Vic is awesome & I hope to keep driving it for 20+ more years & your oil capture can is a great idea for this car.
I have a 2011 f150 with the 3.5l eco boost engine that does not have the post injection, and have installed catch cans both on the intake and exhaust side and use Amsoil oil formulated for lower vaporization. The intake can was accumulating about 3/4” to 1” of oil every 6k miles, and with the Amsoil I am getting about half.
Ty for sharing. All Important info@
Sometimes I diagnose carbon on the valves by looking for negative fuel trims and misfire counts before and after an induction service. If both improve a bit it's a good indication of carbon build up. Then I usually yank the intake and blast it away with walnut shells. Made a lot of money on Volkswagens.
They basically pioneered walnut blasting :p Honda copied there systems haha
I've been saying this for years! A catch can is a must.
its slowly becoming common. hellcat owners are swearing by them! :P
This is old technology that plagues the first GDI engines that came out in the late 2000s/early 2010s (BMW, LExus, VW, Audi). Most new GDI engines have an oil separator in the PCV system now to avoid this issue. Putting an aftermarket jerry-rigged catch can reduces the ability of the built in system to do its job.
@@milfordcivic6755 GDI has been around since at least the 1960s.. they didn't go with it because it was obvious back then that valves would get clogged..
Engineers today are morons, they can't even build a road that lasts 8 years anymore.
My 1999 Volvo has an oil catch can that drains by gravity back into the crank case.
Awesome information, thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Its not the oil mist, its egr sooth that is the biggest problem. It mixes wit the oil making all that mess in the intake.
Use quality fuel, regularly take your vehicle on a 30+ minute run at high rev's low load, do frequent (6 month / 3k mile, whichever sooner) oil changes, consider buying a Toyota which has dual injectors (port + direct) which periodically washes the intake valves with fuel.
But, what if I don't want a Toyota? Also, not all Toyota GDI engines emply the D-4S system.
@@rusack7174 *"But, what if I don't want a Toyota?"*
I know of no other brand that -gives a siht about it's customers like this- employs this technique.
*"Also, not all Toyota GDI engines emply the D-4S system."*
Which is why I said "consider buying a Toyota _which_ has dual injectors". Vote with your money and favour brands which not only want to sell you your next vehicle but your next 7 vehicles.
120 years later you’d think they’d know how to build an engine by now. To the people saying dual injection systems are the answer, that just adds another level of complexity and over engineering to the matter.
Yep and with the recent Toyota recall a tunda engine costs 30k roughly. Things are out of control
The engineers know but the bean counters and government agencies don't.
Change the oil every 5000 miles to avoid problems. Bmw recommends enough oil changes to get the car to the end of the lease. After that they don't care.
Great video Lance, Thank you for sharing
thanks man! cheers :D
The main reason for carbon buildup in modern direct gasoline injection (GDI, FSI) engines is the exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR).
Junk Yards are full of Hyundai/Kai carb up GDI dead or barely running engines.
Thank you very much for verifying why I did install one of these on my 2016 F150 XLT 5.0 4x4. Easy to install and easy to service, I also do my own oil changes. Does running any type of fuel system cleaner help at all?
It will help keep the top of the pistons clean and help more with the injectors. Some of the spray does possibly touch the edge of the valve, but it's arguably not enough to clean it.
That explains why I’m seeing so many Mini Cooper s,s up for sale that have had top end rebuilds , new valves and walnut blasts done 🙄
Problem is by time they get the walnut blasts done the oil control rings are completely carboned up too. So you need to r-ring the bottom end at the same time. I did this religiously on Honda gdi engines. was always asking Our engineering department why we didn't do this and it was Liability. maintenance items are more costly long term then just warranting a couple engines
That and the fact that Minis are straight garbage.
They have head gasket and timing chain guide issues.
My friend bought a new 2020 Kia GDI and it was serviced by the selling dealership every 5,000 miles.
It died at 146,000 and they wanted $ 7,500 to replace the engine.
I used to have a Chrysler Conquest and A fix for a fuel adder if you added boost was to add another fuel injector in the intake pipe. I thought about this when this whole gunky valve/Direct injection foolishness first became a thing. They’re sort of doing that now- port and direct injection. The best solution to the problem. Or, buy something old.😂
Did not know that. Thank you. Good stuff.
thank you!
A gr Yaris has both direct and port injection but still for heavy work like on track it needs a oil catch can also .
Not much room in a modern engine bay for a catch can nowadays - which is a shame.
Short and informative....Thanks.
and ty@! :)
Well engineered engines have PROPER oil separators built-in!!!
Some makers play with valve timing to clean the valves.
In other words, this is only a problem for older GDI designs or current cheaper engines that do not have the valve timing control.
Catch can, regular oil changes and drive the vehicle hard now and then seems to be the best way with DI engines. Have a catch can on 2 DI engine vehicles I own. I live in Canada and had no issues in the freezing weather either.
Hardest thing to diagnose? Shove a camera in the intake if you are experiencing a misfire on a car with DI. If the valves look like a coal mine it’s prudent to clean and re-evaluate the misfire.
Your out of touch. You realise what happens if your wrong. Some of these engines are multiple hours to get to the intake valves then the cleaning its self. So your spending 700 plus on a visual to find out a it could be a ecm update or a bad head gasket that misfires only after sitting for a bit. Or a spark plug or coil with carbon tracking. You have much to learn
@@Lancemechanics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Idk boss. The internet seems to think that carbon buildup with DI is far more common than the other failures you listed, which moves it up the proverbial totem pole of potential failures.
Thanks for insulting my intelligence though.
get out on the highway, drive at 4-5k rpm steady for 20-30 minutes once per year. I'm likely the only person that had a TSI VW that went to almost 300k miles and never needed carbon cleaning.
There is no fix for this problem. You are absolutely correct in that a catch can will mitigate the problem, but some of the oily vapors get through. Catch cans can buy you some time but eventually the intake valves will be encrusted with carbon. Several auto manufacturers have switched over to a dual fuel delivery system that cycles between direst injection and the old port fuel injection which allows the fuel to wash away the oily deposits. I know of a Corvette which had direct injection only that needed a valve job after only 4000 miles. The only way to ensure a direct injection engine will not have carbon build up on the intake valves is to eliminate the catch can and vent into the atmosphere. To be a little bit more environmentally responsible, one could use a catch can but not connect it to the PCV system. Most of the oil will be caught in the can but some of it won't. Life can be complicated.
I vent my crankcase to atmosphere and my valves are real clean. I don’t fly so that equals my pollution contribution out in my eyes 😜
It's not all modern engines!!
My buddy and I had 2014 Silverados With the new Lt v8.
He had 154,000 miles on his, I had 148,000 on mine.
Neither one of us had any issues with the engine at all!!
When we traded the trucks in we were still in the mid too low 24 MPG average.
GM has the issue figured out at least with the 5.3s other car companies do not...
Are they GDI ???
I put a catch can on mine and it fills up every 1000 miles or so. Id like to think it must be something. Idk what amount is a big deal or not.
I ran the hose from my valve cover straight into the dump pipe bend of the turbo. Natural crank case pressure and the venturi effect in the dump pipe draws all vapour out and the extreme temperature and fire in the dump pipe burns the vapour. Eliminating both the original problem and catch can servicing
Do you have a catalytic convertor? Probably not right? The point is; it costs a lot of money to replace a coked-up convertor.
Hopefully you do a how to install asap. Just got my car and would like to fit a catch can.
Finally getting some free time come Sept:)
in addition, most engines, the intake valve closes after bottom dead center. So definitely at slow engine speeds Some of the mixture in the cylinder gets pumped right back out the intake valve.. this is by design to produce really good power in the mid range and higher RPM. But they didn’t think about it with the direct injection obviously. My guess is at this problem is worse for people that barely ever get their engine above 2000 or 3000 RPM and not quite as bad for folks that have it in the higher RPM all the time
Eliminate PCV system from introducing oil into the induction system in the first place. Direct injection washes oil off of cylinder walls and causes wear and tear. DI engines also exoerience low speed preignition, and is destructive to pistons.
0:31 John C.Reilly right there.
I had to do a double take at first!
Omg I thought this too! In a very positive way!
EGR + some exhaust from combustion during overlap contributes to carbon buildup, the port injection prevents it becoming a problem.
Another member of the Lance Club.
Heck yeah!
I'm Canadian, and you sound REALLY Canadian
If catch cans were needed they would fit them from new. Change your oil every 6000 miles like we did before the lease companies started to dictate the service intervals.
That's already explained why they dont
If the PCV valve vents into the air cleaner box upstream of the air filter, would the air filter stop the discharge from reaching the intake valves?
Would the carbon buildup be better or worse on an Atkinson cycle GDI engine?
I installed them on both my vehicles.
My old Mercedes 240d had a check valve in the bottom of the catch can that drained any captured oil back to the crankcase.
Until it was leaking like a pig everywhere else
While I loved W123 body Benz's (Did my mechanic apprenticeship at a Benz dealer) you could almost run faster than a 240D. 300D Turbo engines puked oil from what seemed like every orifice. I was constantly resealing vacuum pumps, sub oil pans, valve covers and oil filter canister gaskets!
@@g-mang-man7924 Yup. I used to tell people I measured 0-60 on a calendar.
@@bobdoingbobthings Ever get a chance to drive a W115 200D? A VW Beetle with a 1300cc would outrun those!
@@g-mang-man7924 No, but I once drove a w116 300CD. That was the slowest car I've ever driven.
Toyota implements direct injection, however they also have an extra injector that sprays a small amount of gas onto the valves. Problem solved. Why don't other manufacturers implement this dual injection system? They want to sell you another new car sooner. All manufacturers know if this direct injection design flaw and Toyota's way of mitigating this but don't care
Ford started doing that dual injector setup on their 3.5 Ecoboost in 2017. (My brother owned a 2017 F-150 Limited). Not sure when Toyota rolled out theirs or if other auto makers have joined in. Seems to me though that a dual injector setup is adding complexity and makes me wonder if DI benefits are worth it. I recently purchased a 2008 Tundra and one of the things I like is the relative simplicity of it. Yes it is a somewhat modern engine with VVT and such but compared to the new twin-turbo, direct injection, hybrid, auto stop, AFM/DFM, DOD, etc. engines out there it's a less complicated and more reliable engine. The absurd number of recalls combined with the outrageous sticker prices makes me wonder how automakers sell as many new vehicles as they do.
Longer oil change intervals, carbon built up in the ring lands, low tension piston rings get stuck, more blowby and everything Lance just said happens quicker. Be old school change your oil more frequently than the dealers says. Cheap insurance. ..... and get a catch can
Imagine the gal of auto makers to start pushing 10k oil change intervals at the same time as transitioning everything to GDI. It's almost like they want engines to fail just out of warranty period.
being a oem mechanic. seems like they always failed months after warranty expired :/
I’m glad Ford uses port and direct injection on the 3.5 turbo.
A big problem with oil catch cans that you have overlooked. They also catch water from water vapor. Water freezes in cold climates. This will eventually plug your PCV system, and start to cause other serious problems like blowiing seals.
It's a high maintenance item