that 30 seconds would drive me NUTS - the funny part is that if the other saw were in the same room but far enough away that it was still 30 seconds, it would be far less frustrating, funny what drives us humans nuts!
Exactly Frank. To add on to that: It can get pretty frustrating to go between two different rooms, especially if you're forgetful and you have to go back and forth often because you're forgetting things like measurements or tools. Frustration slows you down, introduces more errors, etc., etc.. Any upgrade to improve userfriendliness is always worth it in my opinion. A happier you will result in better quality, higher efficiency, and even a better marriage ;).
I would still go with all-plywood for the wheel, with holes cut into it until it looks like spokes. Then you could easily cover over the holes with whatever you like (packing tape, cardstock, thin veneer, etc.) I can get 5-foot square 18-mm thick baltic birch plywood for about $30 per sheet, and you could get four 29-inch circles out of one sheet and laminate them together to get two 29-inch wheels at almost 1.5-inch thickness.
One should not ever feel obligated to answer the question "why a bigger bandsaw?". Because...bandsaw. I'm very excited to see the new plans. This seems like an excellent saw for wide resaw blades and cutting veneers without an expensive horizontal bandsaw.
Other options for making a solid ply lightened wheel not collect dust is of course to skin it with a sheet of thin plywood or fill the holes with foam.
I was thinking about that too. I've got an old craftsman bandsaw that I'm tuning up and it has issue he talks about where the spokes collect a lot of dust and generally whirls dust around. I was just thinking I could use some kind of thin plexi/acryllic/plastic sheet glued on to each side to prevent that effect.
@@billybobjoe198 I'm thinking like the thinness of pladtic packaging or laminator sheets. The air in the cavities might suck the plastic in, and then the foam that Joe mentions would be beneficial too. Maybe some of that 1" extruded insulation foam.
Great project Matthias. I too have questions but I figure it's best to just sit back and enjoy the upcoming build for now. I am indeed intrigued on what changes or nuances you'll take as compared to previous bandsaws. I remember the previous video: Bigger is better! I wait with baited breath to see the upcoming videos.
Been really getting into these sort of videos again. I’ve watched most of your other ones and I’m glad to see that they are making an appearance again. Really inspiring me to get in my garage and make a bandsaw especially with how bad our mini max bandsaw is at my work place. These machines your making are putting machines like ones at my work to shame, and they are ones that get used everyday making bespoke joinery. So I’d sort of expect them to be half decent. Keep bringing the content Matthias it’s nice to see that even though your done it you can always do it again!
I do similar things. I remember years ago I was doing software upgrades on ATM's, for about half of them we were meant to fill out 2 forms, but no one told me, I had only been filling out he single form for months. I had all the details saved that I needed to fill out these forms, so I could just sit down for around 3 hours and fill them all out by hand/on pc OR i could spend about 4 hours and write a script to do it for me. writing the script was much more fun, so that's what i did. I hate repetitive tasks and I tend to make a lot of mistakes when I do repetitive tasks as i sort of 'zone out'
Build myself a bandsaw of your design years ago. Still like it. Had the same problem of dust collecting under the ruber tube. Fixed that with aluminium foil tape. Also closed the holes with it.
glad to see him tryning new things and improving his desing, also he makes me wanna build a bandsaw, although i have my dad's 50 inch sawmill bandsaw and never used that in 2 years, the machine has a solid cast iron bottom wheel, weights a lot takes 2 minutes to reach speed, that is a annoying thing, he will be super fine with the hollow light wheels
I really like these videos that explain your thought process. Using pre-built components, like a bicycle wheel in this example, generally only works if the entire component/assembly works as is. Once you have to start changing said component, you've negated the reason for using it...ease of use. And I'm careful to say "generally". Gently modifying something, like cutting a groove into a premade wheel to make a pully is one thing. Changing the hub/axle on a bicycle wheel is as much, if not more, work than creating it from raw materials. I find the latter is more often the case.
On pallet separators, they use actual pneumatic tires (about 18" in diameter) to run the big bandsaw blade horizontally. Cuts through all the wood and nails like warm butter.
I was really hoping this was going to turn into a large saw mill. You should do one of those again some time. Those are by far my favorite videos of yours. Can't wait for your next video.
I looked a guide on how to design a bandsaw, the first thing was to select a blade you will be using. I needed a thick big blade for sawing raw logs, and the blade in turn required big wheels.
@@bmxscape wow that's crazy, I listened to that like 15 times yesterday because I was sure I was hearing it wrong, but i heard 25 and 18. Now, after reading your comment and listening to it again, I can only hear 45 and 18 lol
When using bicycle wheels instead of plywood wheels I would recommend using the frontset as well and mount it into the bandsaw frame. Changing the blade is still more complicated than with a wheel whose axle is mounted only on one side.
What about still cutting holes and putting a thin sheet of plexi or really thin plywood over the wheel. Could cover part of the rubber too to prevent the dust getting in.
What are your thoughts about warping? Mdf and plywood is more stable. But maybe a large bandsaw doesn't need much precision? Did you consider a steel back column to support the wheels?
You always get my imagination going Matthias. What if you milled a big round elliptical groove on each face of an MDF disk on the top of a big table saw set at 45 degrees to get the biggest scoop, (or maybe more of such ripples) and after that just use a router bit to take off that millimeter for the inner tube around it? or maybe just do a wheel in gradual parametric slices where the strength needs to be and smooth them out by sanding them down...
I recently dismantled a direct drive LG washing machine which has a very nice motor that couples directly to the drum. I think that this type of motor could form the basis for a direct-drive bandsaw whereby the motor would fit within the lower wheel.
Hello Mattias! I'm sure you are aware, but you did not mention it in the video. The critical mass is at the edge of the wheels, a lighter wheel with mass concentrated at the edge could be harder to start and stop than a heavier wheel with the mass at the center. Pure weight of the wheel is not as important as the mass location and radius, see rotational energy. I would recommend the Wikipedia page about flywheels.
I went looking for that throw-the-bandsaw-off-the-scaffold clip but can't find it. I thought it was in one of David Picciuto's but I couldn't find it.. (no I did not watch a ton, I just scanned back through his list. Seem to recall he got a lot of youtubers to contribute clips.) Or am I just mixing things up?
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 BTW, what are your plans for that bike wheel motor? If you do a tear down, please film. I'm curious about how the power is hooked up, among just wanting to see the innards. Trying to think where a hub-motor would be a good idea in the shop. Hmm. Rear wheel on your strip sander? Depends on the HP I suppose.
Did you ever think of making a bead lock type of disc to lock the edges of the inner tube to the hollow wheel, you could bevel the edges so sawdust doesn’t get hung up. And the discs you attach could allow you to implement a foot operated brake, kinda like a old clamp bicycle brake. But I like the hollow wheel idea, would allow the wheel to have airflow through it to make its own dust collector, kinda like your home made ones. Love the content btw.
i mean, it could conceivably work if u have wheels that have 15-20mm thru axles and put all rubber tyres or slicks on the rim. But that seems to me just a misuse of wheels, they are better off on a bike.
3:00 how about making a wheel, cutting the holes, and then putting on thin plywood sheets on the outsides to shield it? Would be easier to produce with similar results right? You could maybe even clamp the tube with the outside ply layer to prevent the dust from coming into it.
I used to work in a freight distribution company, and when we had to weigh items that wouldn't fit/balance on the pallet scales, I came up with an easy solution (you can do the same with bathroom scales)... I would weigh myself on the scales, then zero the scales and weigh myself again, but holding the item. (remembering to always zero the scales after the process).
If you take the bike frame and take the front forks off and cut the rear frame apart keeping the triangle support for the rear tire then you can use bicycle tires easily. If you put the same design effort into using bicycle wheels as you put into building with wood you could seriously upgrade the bandsaw.
You mentioned WoodMizer. If I built one, I think I would use vehicle safety-spare wheels; they're pumped up to about 60 PSI and typically have a decent crown on the tire. Even though you're only supposed to drive 50 miles on them, I think there's enough tread to sand them round.
regarding making holes on solid wood for the rollers. maybe you can make the wholes and then use plastic ( tape , plastic book covers , something ) to cover the holes and making it perfect. at least what i can think on top of my head
Marius acknowledged the problem with the holes in the wheel been a pain, but he also had the problem with sawdust building up on this rim the lower wheel but that could be due to the holes building up sawdusk and keeping it in the air in the lower box.
Geting the sawdust all over the place is worse than it building up on the wheels. Yes, dust collection hooked up would help. But with this design, you don't need it.
I have enjoyed viewing your band saw builds. I have a couple questions- You haven't addressed (in detail) the tension of the blades. When you used your band saw to mill a log you had problems of the drifting saw blade. My question is was the blade in maximum tension? Is optimum performance when at max tension? My second question is, there are those who believe the tension on the blade should be removed when the saw is not in use. They have band saws with quick release to do just that, and to aid in blade removal/installation. It that something on your radar?
The weight comparison was interesting, but it's the moment of inertia that'll really matter and much of the mass of the big wheel is distributed around the rim. Not saying it won't help, just that maybe the improvement won't be as great as it seems.
Thank you for the explanation, but truth be said, I would have been happy if you just said this is what you wanted to build; well I would not have demanded an explanation. I am still looking forward to the build.
IMHO the door size is not limiting the size of the whole bandsaw. Only the size of the wheels are then limited to around square root of 5m. You always could either transport the wheels separate or the saw horizontal instead of vertical. Remember the bird of Ulm 😁
The "no frame" bandsaw: Upper wheel hung from ceiling on automobile wheel hub, direct drive lower Prius drive wheel with table on floor; cut on either or both blades with a guide and brace over the ascending portion. Need to find a junked Prius or other E car.
Will you be able to use off the shelf blades, or have custom made, or build your own? I look forward to seeing it being built and running when completed.
What are your thoughts on using the disc brake from the bicycle wheel in your new unit for faster blade stop AND a foot switch? This could be for safety particularly if integrated with the on/off motor switch and using a foot control in conjunction with the normal "light switch" approach. Why? As you are using larger and larger wheels, the switch is moving away from the front of the machine encouraging an un-natural reach from the center of the feed table while trying to control the sawn material. This would allow you to keep both hands on the work and still shut off the unit with rapid "stop" if the brake is also used - kind like a paddle switch on many table saws that can be utilized with a knee or thigh.
That's not a bad idea. Rather than use actual brakes you could also apply a DC voltage to the induction motor's windings, this might be easier to integrate. It could also be easily retrofitted to existing bandsaws. Somebody could start a business selling foot controls like that.
Maybe a dumb question: Is it easier to use two big wheels instead of three or four smaller ones? I was just thinking if it could possibly save some space. Edit: Well... Just saw another 20 seconds and you pointed to the video about that topic. xD
Hey Matthias! Love your videos! I built your first bandsaw (and others machines) and can't wait to see the rest of this build! Any chance you could work out a problem for me? - maybe I'm over thinking it. I have a two story house, with walk-in attic above. The eve is right above the porch (both sloped roofs). I need to screw some hooks/brackets for christmas lights to the soffit of the above eve. Can't get a ladder up there because it's too tall and the porch is right below it (no flat surface). I hope that all makes sense. How can I make some long pole or something that I can use as basically a really long screw driver to screw some things up there? I've been looking for a product but can't seem to find one. I'm assuming I'll have to rig something up....
nail 2x4 (or clamp if possible) to porch roof. set ladder base against it. when done plug nail holes. painted a number of those 50 years ago with 30 inch over hangs. hated the wasps
Thanks for satisfying our curiousity. It's great that the huge wheel is comparitively close in weight as a much smaller one. The opposite strategy of the Steel City Tool Works design. Makes one wonder if a wheel built of lead would have even less of an advantage. Such a design, relying on momemtum, would probably be safer with some kind of braking system. Much less safe, it seems, than just relying on a nimbler, more versatile, setup with the light weight wheels. Was that a kitchen scale? I use a postal scale in the kitchen, so fair enough, I can't squawk at a kitchen scale in a workshop. Interesting to see, a consideration of an e-bike wheel, as a possible component of a band saw. Glad that was debunked. Next time, see if we can consider a pedal powered band saw. Although, I'm guessing, with wooden gearing, and a foot pumped lever, that would not be beyond you. Such a gizmo might come in handy, if there is no electrical source to drive a motor. Seriously though, great project. So satisfying. Thanks for the great content. Keep up the good work. בס״ד
That's a good idea the problem is that the tape just won't last. It might last a month or two but no matter what it's going to come off at some point which means you're going to be constantly fixing the tape.
Drill holes in the solid and cover it with a very thin layer of wood, something like he used on these hollow wheels, but potentially even thinner. A couple of millimeters would be plenty. When you go that way, the difference between the two methods gets really small, although Matthias' version is probably a bit lighter.
Yeah, higher momentum sounds kinda dangerous, now that you mention it. I wonder if there are other ways to lighten it even further. When designing your frame, how are you calculating the thickness of the wood needed to resist the bending stresses involved?
I had a 14" Craftsman bandsaw about 30 years ago. Built a bandsaw reindeer first and gave it to my girlfriend, then built a much more intricate jewelry box shaped like a tree and gave it to her after I married her. She still has both. Then gave the bandsaw to my brother. He still has it -- not married to him, though.
Also, regarding the e-bike wheel's axle, could you not just tap a thread into a thicker bar stock of any diameter? As long as everything's balanced well, you shouldn't have any flexing issues. You could potentially even use a high strength bar which has a thicker diameter on one side, but I think that'd be more effort than it's worth.
With the inner tube dust problem: why not just step the outside down by the thickness of the rubber? Just by making the wheels a fraction thicker, and then when cutting the crown, just stepping the outer edge down by the same amount there wouldn't be any rubber sticking out to catch the dust.
OH! The "slots on the wheel turn it into a fan" comment makes me wonder, could you make a bandsaw wheel into it's own dust collector fan? I suspect the speed is too low though.
Never question Mathis hes gone over every aspect of this before he even picks up a tool. You first one I was kidding around , I love watching you do things dont stop. Any plans on that backyard rocket to the moon yet? If anyone besides SpaceX is going to pull this off it would be you. Plywood lunar rover. That or recharge the batteries on the one up on the moon now. You know I'll bet that still runs and drives. Anyone care to bet? Whats a 1969 classic moon rover worth today? Nope not in Kelly blue book.
4:11 some kind of complicated bracket that goes around it? You mean...like the forks a bike usually comes with? :D Honestly tho, if the Problem is the Elbowroom i suggest investing in a few 100m long Blade (a non circular one) and some intelligent feed mechanism so there are a few min of runtime where the blade is fed lets say into the basement from the attic and during glue ups you let it reverse so the sawblade is fed up into the attic again :D
Does this really sound like a practical idea to you? The bandsaw blade runs at around 1000 feet per minute. That is about 300 meters per minute, or 50 meters per second.
How do you think you'll solve the issue with dust getting stuck under the inner tube? My first instinct would be to just glue or tape down the edges, but my second instinct is that might throw off the balance unpredictably.
wait, couldn't you just use some rubber cement to glue the bicycle inner tubes on? if the tubes ever go bad they should peel off easy. but no dust should be able to get in.
Why can't you cut out big chunks from the wheel and then cover it with a thin material like plastic/vinyl sheet on both sides? Maybe even sandpaper and make it multi-purpose. That way the overall weight is reduced and the problem of dust collecting/wind generation etc., are eliminated.
Und warum nimmst du keine Motoradräder? Ich hatte an meiner Bandsäge einen 1,5PS Motor der mir zu schnell aufgab. Jetzt habe ich einen 4PS 3Phasenmotor der nie langsamer wird
Would it be possible to use multiple smaller wheels to create a trapezium shaped path for the blade? It seems to me like that would be a better design if you don't want to take up a lot of vertical space but want to maximize the distance to the left of the cutting area. The only downsides I can see are the increased friction from the additional wheels, complexity of aligning 4 wheels, and the additional horizontal space required. When you're getting to wheel sizes that are around a meter in diameter it seems like you're not really gaining much extra room compared to how much extra blade length you need to span the wheels. Four 50cm wheels could fit into the same amount of space but spread the blade out much wider to give both more horizontal room and more vertical cutting height in a similar space.
He decided against it because the smaller wheel diameter means the blade would curve harder (more severe) and thus resulting in higher stress in the blade. Which leads to material fatigue and blade failure. So after all it wasn't worth it.
I have a 3-wheeled bandsaw. I never use it because it's a giant pain to get the blade to track right. It's easier for me to use hand tools to make those kind of cuts than it is to deal with the wonky blade tracking.
A motorcycle would have a thicker shaft. But the max diameter would be 21" and they'd be quite wide. In the 80s, Honda had a 23" front. And you'd be tightening the spokes all the time. Wood is a better choice.
ehh even if the naysayers think the motor is too weak, pulleys can be changed and so can the motor if it ends up not working. It isn't a fundamental part of the design.
Yeah granite. Steel City are a company that make bandsaws among other things. Solid stone lower wheel, and cast iron upper. And solid granite tilting table. "No rust" is what they advertise. Not, "stupid and dangerous".
Yes, the USA Steel City Made a bandsaw with a Granite table, and Granite lower wheel. They were a group of Delta engineers who started Steel City Power Tools. I have the USA Steel City Band Saw and love it. I can resaw to its max capacity with ease. Unfortunately USA Steel City failed. It is now a Canadian company that bought Steel City. They have expanded the line and seem to be doing well. USA Steel City made good quality WW tools at a great price. Yes they incorporated Granite in some tools. Idea was granite is flat and stays flat and of course no rust. I have the USA Steel City Jointer with the Granite top. It is dead flat and of course never rusts! Disagree that the granite bottom wheel is stupid! Love mine!
You say this will be used for re-sawing, I have some 1” wide bandsaw blades for re-sawing would they work on these drive wheels, or would the wheels need to be wider?
I figured it out - the issue of additional content for patreon supporters. Maybe instead you can just release videos early to them, or make a channel like this one exclusive to patreon instead.
Not trying to convince you at all, but I wonder if what they use for lefty forks would help if someone wanted to do this. (For anyone who doesn't know a lefty fork isn't a "fork" at all, it's one-sided and connects to the wheel on one side.). A potential way forward would be an old lefty wheel (no idea on the axles available,) a cheap tire insert typically meant to go inside tires to prevent flats and protect rims, and stretch the innertube right over that. Again I don't care one way or another - that's just what popped into my mind!
You could fabricate plastic hubcaps to cover the spokes from HDPE, to counteract the air turbulence problem. Would the spoke wheels handle the stresses of driving the blade?
Would it be possible to build a bandsaw in 2 separate parts and eliminate the post near the cutting table all together by mounting the upper wheel to the ceiling rafters and the lower to the floor?
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Couldn't you go crazy and make a giant four wheel bandsaw? Run the blade along the ceiling and under the floor. Having it built-in to the room should eliminate the floor space issue of a three wheeled bandsaw. I'm sure it would introduce several other problems, though.
While you are at it, make this new saw "left handed" (column on the right). This will permit cutting "on the other side". So you can switch saws for curved cuts, or requiring cuts "on the other side". Another thing: you need to provide a table adjustment that permits rotation about vertical axis, to correct for "lead angle". This adjustment capability need be only a handful of degrees each way. I am sick of all the klugy schemes for correct for lead, including setting the fence off-square, and using "resaw posts" instead of a real fence. It's time for bandsaw manufacturers to wake up!
A lefty would be handy from time to time, but if I make plans available, then a lefty is not ideal. And being much bigger, more stuff fits on the left side as it is already.
Great problem solver, the reason is solid. The 30 seconds are annoying, the month long build is fun.
Plus there’s the fact he gets content out of a month long build.
Profit out of wasted time.
@@geoaerorider4589 He can make a time lapse of those 30 seconds and we will watch it.
He also needs 6 more inches;)
that 30 seconds would drive me NUTS - the funny part is that if the other saw were in the same room but far enough away that it was still 30 seconds, it would be far less frustrating, funny what drives us humans nuts!
Exactly Frank. To add on to that: It can get pretty frustrating to go between two different rooms, especially if you're forgetful and you have to go back and forth often because you're forgetting things like measurements or tools. Frustration slows you down, introduces more errors, etc., etc.. Any upgrade to improve userfriendliness is always worth it in my opinion. A happier you will result in better quality, higher efficiency, and even a better marriage ;).
I like when you do these type videos - explaining your thinking and talking through your design process, great work!
Indeed, I mentioned in the last video that I love his thought process.
I don't know what he does for work but he would be an awsome wood work teacher!
I totally agree. Mathias is a great education. the best on the net!
I'm really looking forward to the frame re-design for dimensional lumber!
I would still go with all-plywood for the wheel, with holes cut into it until it looks like spokes. Then you could easily cover over the holes with whatever you like (packing tape, cardstock, thin veneer, etc.)
I can get 5-foot square 18-mm thick baltic birch plywood for about $30 per sheet, and you could get four 29-inch circles out of one sheet and laminate them together to get two 29-inch wheels at almost 1.5-inch thickness.
"Why spend 30 seconds walking, when you can spend a month building?"
Spoken like a true programmer
One should not ever feel obligated to answer the question "why a bigger bandsaw?". Because...bandsaw. I'm very excited to see the new plans. This seems like an excellent saw for wide resaw blades and cutting veneers without an expensive horizontal bandsaw.
Other options for making a solid ply lightened wheel not collect dust is of course to skin it with a sheet of thin plywood or fill the holes with foam.
I was thinking about that too. I've got an old craftsman bandsaw that I'm tuning up and it has issue he talks about where the spokes collect a lot of dust and generally whirls dust around. I was just thinking I could use some kind of thin plexi/acryllic/plastic sheet glued on to each side to prevent that effect.
@@nyw11 That sounds heavy.
@@billybobjoe198 I'm thinking like the thinness of pladtic packaging or laminator sheets. The air in the cavities might suck the plastic in, and then the foam that Joe mentions would be beneficial too. Maybe some of that 1" extruded insulation foam.
just stapling an old piece of textile on the outside should be sufficient
@@billybobjoe198 no part of that sounds heavy
As a fellow engineer, I applaud the 1 month solution!
Great project Matthias. I too have questions but I figure it's best to just sit back and enjoy the upcoming build for now. I am indeed intrigued on what changes or nuances you'll take as compared to previous bandsaws.
I remember the previous video: Bigger is better! I wait with baited breath to see the upcoming videos.
Been really getting into these sort of videos again. I’ve watched most of your other ones and I’m glad to see that they are making an appearance again. Really inspiring me to get in my garage and make a bandsaw especially with how bad our mini max bandsaw is at my work place. These machines your making are putting machines like ones at my work to shame, and they are ones that get used everyday making bespoke joinery. So I’d sort of expect them to be half decent. Keep bringing the content Matthias it’s nice to see that even though your done it you can always do it again!
I do similar things. I remember years ago I was doing software upgrades on ATM's, for about half of them we were meant to fill out 2 forms, but no one told me, I had only been filling out he single form for months. I had all the details saved that I needed to fill out these forms, so I could just sit down for around 3 hours and fill them all out by hand/on pc OR i could spend about 4 hours and write a script to do it for me. writing the script was much more fun, so that's what i did.
I hate repetitive tasks and I tend to make a lot of mistakes when I do repetitive tasks as i sort of 'zone out'
Build myself a bandsaw of your design years ago. Still like it. Had the same problem of dust collecting under the ruber tube. Fixed that with aluminium foil tape. Also closed the holes with it.
glad to see him tryning new things and improving his desing, also he makes me wanna build a bandsaw, although i have my dad's 50 inch sawmill bandsaw and never used that in 2 years, the machine has a solid cast iron bottom wheel, weights a lot takes 2 minutes to reach speed, that is a annoying thing, he will be super fine with the hollow light wheels
Discussing the practically of using a bicycle wheel was some of the best comedy I've heard all year.
I really like these videos that explain your thought process. Using pre-built components, like a bicycle wheel in this example, generally only works if the entire component/assembly works as is. Once you have to start changing said component, you've negated the reason for using it...ease of use. And I'm careful to say "generally". Gently modifying something, like cutting a groove into a premade wheel to make a pully is one thing. Changing the hub/axle on a bicycle wheel is as much, if not more, work than creating it from raw materials. I find the latter is more often the case.
On pallet separators, they use actual pneumatic tires (about 18" in diameter) to run the big bandsaw blade horizontally. Cuts through all the wood and nails like warm butter.
I was really hoping this was going to turn into a large saw mill. You should do one of those again some time. Those are by far my favorite videos of yours. Can't wait for your next video.
I looked a guide on how to design a bandsaw, the first thing was to select a blade you will be using. I needed a thick big blade for sawing raw logs, and the blade in turn required big wheels.
In five years Mattias is going to convert two ferris wheels into a giant bandsaw. And we will nod our heads and say yeah, I also need one of those...
Sssh don't give away all of his secrets.
Steam powered.
Talk about a workhorse, that thing would make short work of literally anything ! Now i want one !
Perfect for resawing houses after a divorce.
You could do the plywood plus holes construction and just face it with a thin ply. But I don’t know that it would be any easier than what you have.
0:44 I suspect 33 inches is not 66 cm
No, 26" is about 66 cm.
Whatever gave you that idea... (oops, just noticed the text is wrong in the video!)
@@doggfite he said 45 lol
@@bmxscape wow that's crazy, I listened to that like 15 times yesterday because I was sure I was hearing it wrong, but i heard 25 and 18.
Now, after reading your comment and listening to it again, I can only hear 45 and 18 lol
When using bicycle wheels instead of plywood wheels I would recommend using the frontset as well and mount it into the bandsaw frame. Changing the blade is still more complicated than with a wheel whose axle is mounted only on one side.
What about still cutting holes and putting a thin sheet of plexi or really thin plywood over the wheel. Could cover part of the rubber too to prevent the dust getting in.
What are your thoughts about warping? Mdf and plywood is more stable. But maybe a large bandsaw doesn't need much precision? Did you consider a steel back column to support the wheels?
You always get my imagination going Matthias. What if you milled a big round elliptical groove on each face of an MDF disk on the top of a big table saw set at 45 degrees to get the biggest scoop, (or maybe more of such ripples) and after that just use a router bit to take off that millimeter for the inner tube around it? or maybe just do a wheel in gradual parametric slices where the strength needs to be and smooth them out by sanding them down...
Please do try your suggestion and make a video. I think it would be fun to watch.
Sound like how a designer would build a bandsaw lul
I recently dismantled a direct drive LG washing machine which has a very nice motor that couples directly to the drum. I think that this type of motor could form the basis for a direct-drive bandsaw whereby the motor would fit within the lower wheel.
If you have a controller for it, yes.
Hello Mattias!
I'm sure you are aware, but you did not mention it in the video. The critical mass is at the edge of the wheels, a lighter wheel with mass concentrated at the edge could be harder to start and stop than a heavier wheel with the mass at the center. Pure weight of the wheel is not as important as the mass location and radius, see rotational energy. I would recommend the Wikipedia page about flywheels.
I went looking for that throw-the-bandsaw-off-the-scaffold clip but can't find it. I thought it was in one of David Picciuto's but I couldn't find it.. (no I did not watch a ton, I just scanned back through his list. Seem to recall he got a lot of youtubers to contribute clips.) Or am I just mixing things up?
it was in that clip too. It's my video about the craftsman bandsaw.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 BTW, what are your plans for that bike wheel motor? If you do a tear down, please film. I'm curious about how the power is hooked up, among just wanting to see the innards. Trying to think where a hub-motor would be a good idea in the shop. Hmm. Rear wheel on your strip sander? Depends on the HP I suppose.
Did you ever think of making a bead lock type of disc to lock the edges of the inner tube to the hollow wheel, you could bevel the edges so sawdust doesn’t get hung up. And the discs you attach could allow you to implement a foot operated brake, kinda like a old clamp bicycle brake. But I like the hollow wheel idea, would allow the wheel to have airflow through it to make its own dust collector, kinda like your home made ones. Love the content btw.
In order to use this bike wheel I need to throw away the rim,hub ,spokes and tire and build the rest out of wood. lol
i mean, it could conceivably work if u have wheels that have 15-20mm thru axles and put all rubber tyres or slicks on the rim. But that seems to me just a misuse of wheels, they are better off on a bike.
Truck wheels would probably work except they would be way heavier.
@@eDoc2020 they can for sure i have seen it
@@eDoc2020 use the diesel engine from the truck, and the weight will make little practical difference.
3:00 how about making a wheel, cutting the holes, and then putting on thin plywood sheets on the outsides to shield it? Would be easier to produce with similar results right? You could maybe even clamp the tube with the outside ply layer to prevent the dust from coming into it.
I used to work in a freight distribution company, and when we had to weigh items that wouldn't fit/balance on the pallet scales, I came up with an easy solution (you can do the same with bathroom scales)...
I would weigh myself on the scales, then zero the scales and weigh myself again, but holding the item.
(remembering to always zero the scales after the process).
If you take the bike frame and take the front forks off and cut the rear frame apart keeping the triangle support for the rear tire then you can use bicycle tires easily. If you put the same design effort into using bicycle wheels as you put into building with wood you could seriously upgrade the bandsaw.
You mentioned WoodMizer. If I built one, I think I would use vehicle safety-spare wheels; they're pumped up to about 60 PSI and typically have a decent crown on the tire. Even though you're only supposed to drive 50 miles on them, I think there's enough tread to sand them round.
i have that Steelcity bandsaw with the granite wheel. It takes a long time to stop spinning after I turn it off. and there is no brake.
You could glue the flanges with ciment contact glue and limit the dust accumulation.
Thank you for this video ! We can see what you are doing and we can hear what you think about it ...
regarding making holes on solid wood for the rollers. maybe you can make the wholes and then use plastic ( tape , plastic book covers , something ) to cover the holes and making it perfect. at least what i can think on top of my head
I had thought of a wagon wheel (or smaller wagon wheel-like wheels) with the sides covered with thin plywood.
That's kinda what it is. And gluing to the plywood adds strength
Marius acknowledged the problem with the holes in the wheel been a pain, but he also had the problem with sawdust building up on this rim the lower wheel but that could be due to the holes building up sawdusk and keeping it in the air in the lower box.
Geting the sawdust all over the place is worse than it building up on the wheels. Yes, dust collection hooked up would help. But with this design, you don't need it.
I have enjoyed viewing your band saw builds. I have a couple questions- You haven't addressed (in detail) the tension of the blades. When you used your band saw to mill a log you had problems of the drifting saw blade. My question is was the blade in maximum tension? Is optimum performance when at max tension? My second question is, there are those who believe the tension on the blade should be removed when the saw is not in use. They have band saws with quick release to do just that, and to aid in blade removal/installation. It that something on your radar?
The weight comparison was interesting, but it's the moment of inertia that'll really matter and much of the mass of the big wheel is distributed around the rim. Not saying it won't help, just that maybe the improvement won't be as great as it seems.
I can hardly wait for the 48" bandsaw,😁👍!
Thank you for the explanation, but truth be said, I would have been happy if you just said this is what you wanted to build; well I would not have demanded an explanation. I am still looking forward to the build.
IMHO the door size is not limiting the size of the whole bandsaw. Only the size of the wheels are then limited to around square root of 5m. You always could either transport the wheels separate or the saw horizontal instead of vertical. Remember the bird of Ulm 😁
Building a new bandsaw is much better UA-cam material than lots of 30 second walks :)
I have a question, why don’t you build more bandsaws? I love your bandsaw build videos ;)
Thoughtful and thorough analysis, great stuff !!!!
The "no frame" bandsaw: Upper wheel hung from ceiling on automobile wheel hub, direct drive lower Prius drive wheel with table on floor; cut on either or both blades with a guide and brace over the ascending portion. Need to find a junked Prius or other E car.
Do you still have your metal working tools? Any interest in making a horizontal band saw for metal?
Will you be able to use off the shelf blades, or have custom made, or build your own? I look forward to seeing it being built and running when completed.
My guess is he'll make it for an existing blade size.
What are your thoughts on using the disc brake from the bicycle wheel in your new unit for faster blade stop AND a foot switch? This could be for safety particularly if integrated with the on/off motor switch and using a foot control in conjunction with the normal "light switch" approach. Why? As you are using larger and larger wheels, the switch is moving away from the front of the machine encouraging an un-natural reach from the center of the feed table while trying to control the sawn material. This would allow you to keep both hands on the work and still shut off the unit with rapid "stop" if the brake is also used - kind like a paddle switch on many table saws that can be utilized with a knee or thigh.
That's not a bad idea. Rather than use actual brakes you could also apply a DC voltage to the induction motor's windings, this might be easier to integrate. It could also be easily retrofitted to existing bandsaws. Somebody could start a business selling foot controls like that.
Maybe a dumb question: Is it easier to use two big wheels instead of three or four smaller ones? I was just thinking if it could possibly save some space.
Edit: Well... Just saw another 20 seconds and you pointed to the video about that topic. xD
I wonder if you could do the spoke/hole design, and then cover the holes with paper or cardboard, to keep the dust out.
Hey Matthias! Love your videos! I built your first bandsaw (and others machines) and can't wait to see the rest of this build! Any chance you could work out a problem for me? - maybe I'm over thinking it. I have a two story house, with walk-in attic above. The eve is right above the porch (both sloped roofs). I need to screw some hooks/brackets for christmas lights to the soffit of the above eve. Can't get a ladder up there because it's too tall and the porch is right below it (no flat surface). I hope that all makes sense. How can I make some long pole or something that I can use as basically a really long screw driver to screw some things up there? I've been looking for a product but can't seem to find one. I'm assuming I'll have to rig something up....
nail 2x4 (or clamp if possible) to porch roof. set ladder base against it. when done plug nail holes. painted a number of those 50 years ago with 30 inch over hangs. hated the wasps
Nice. Interested to see what you come up with as a frame design.
i'm sure it has been suggested or you have thought of it before but what about a detachable outfeed table?
Thanks for satisfying our curiousity. It's great that the huge wheel is comparitively close in weight as a much smaller one. The opposite strategy of the Steel City Tool Works design. Makes one wonder if a wheel built of lead would have even less of an advantage. Such a design, relying on momemtum, would probably be safer with some kind of braking system. Much less safe, it seems, than just relying on a nimbler, more versatile, setup with the light weight wheels.
Was that a kitchen scale? I use a postal scale in the kitchen, so fair enough, I can't squawk at a kitchen scale in a workshop.
Interesting to see, a consideration of an e-bike wheel, as a possible component of a band saw. Glad that was debunked. Next time, see if we can consider a pedal powered band saw. Although, I'm guessing, with wooden gearing, and a foot pumped lever, that would not be beyond you. Such a gizmo might come in handy, if there is no electrical source to drive a motor.
Seriously though, great project.
So satisfying.
Thanks for the great content.
Keep up the good work.
בס״ד
I bet you could design a bigger bandsaw that tips to go through the door, but finding a tire tube that fits it conveniently might be tough.
drill holes in the solid and then stick tape over holes to prevent dust.
Nice!
That's a good idea the problem is that the tape just won't last. It might last a month or two but no matter what it's going to come off at some point which means you're going to be constantly fixing the tape.
Drill holes in the solid and cover it with a very thin layer of wood, something like he used on these hollow wheels, but potentially even thinner. A couple of millimeters would be plenty. When you go that way, the difference between the two methods gets really small, although Matthias' version is probably a bit lighter.
Just have a core plywood sheet with holes and thicken it with side plates.
Clean look and easy to make
I wonder if turning down both faces of both wheels just far enough for the inner tube to sit in might help with the saw dust gathering under them.
Yeah, higher momentum sounds kinda dangerous, now that you mention it. I wonder if there are other ways to lighten it even further.
When designing your frame, how are you calculating the thickness of the wood needed to resist the bending stresses involved?
Easiest way to lighten it would probably be to make judicious use of aluminium, but that requires specialist tools and a lot more effort!
I have one of those little Craftsman bandsaws. Can confirm, they suck.
I had a 14" Craftsman bandsaw about 30 years ago. Built a bandsaw reindeer first and gave it to my girlfriend, then built a much more intricate jewelry box shaped like a tree and gave it to her after I married her. She still has both. Then gave the bandsaw to my brother. He still has it -- not married to him, though.
Also, regarding the e-bike wheel's axle, could you not just tap a thread into a thicker bar stock of any diameter?
As long as everything's balanced well, you shouldn't have any flexing issues.
You could potentially even use a high strength bar which has a thicker diameter on one side, but I think that'd be more effort than it's worth.
the mount for the shaft wouldn't flex, but the shaft itself would bend. That's the problem.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Couldn't you even just replace the shaft with one of a higher quality?
When are you going to build a bandsaw mill?
With the inner tube dust problem: why not just step the outside down by the thickness of the rubber?
Just by making the wheels a fraction thicker, and then when cutting the crown, just stepping the outer edge down by the same amount there wouldn't be any rubber sticking out to catch the dust.
yes, that would help. But not worth the bother.
Why use the motor on a pulley instead of directly driving the lower wheel?
direct drive bandsaws all run way too fast
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Thank you sir!
OH! The "slots on the wheel turn it into a fan" comment makes me wonder, could you make a bandsaw wheel into it's own dust collector fan? I suspect the speed is too low though.
See his latest router table build!
Never question Mathis hes gone over every aspect of this before he even picks up a tool.
You first one I was kidding around , I love watching you do things dont stop.
Any plans on that backyard rocket to the moon yet? If anyone besides SpaceX is going to pull this off it would be you.
Plywood lunar rover. That or recharge the batteries on the one up on the moon now. You know I'll bet that still runs and drives. Anyone care to bet?
Whats a 1969 classic moon rover worth today? Nope not in Kelly blue book.
if the band saw is tilted around the vertical axis for transport, it fits through the door
Did you just invent laying something on it's side?
4:11 some kind of complicated bracket that goes around it?
You mean...like the forks a bike usually comes with? :D
Honestly tho, if the Problem is the Elbowroom i suggest investing in a few 100m long
Blade (a non circular one) and some intelligent feed mechanism so there
are a few min of runtime where the blade is fed lets say into the
basement from the attic and during glue ups you let it reverse so the
sawblade is fed up into the attic again :D
Does this really sound like a practical idea to you? The bandsaw blade runs at around 1000 feet per minute. That is about 300 meters per minute, or 50 meters per second.
How do you think you'll solve the issue with dust getting stuck under the inner tube? My first instinct would be to just glue or tape down the edges, but my second instinct is that might throw off the balance unpredictably.
That was an issue on the 20" saw. I believe the solution was to trim the excess that hangs over the sides.
Many BMX bike wheels use a 14mm axle, unfortunately they are often 20” rims though.
wait, couldn't you just use some rubber cement to glue the bicycle inner tubes on? if the tubes ever go bad they should peel off easy. but no dust should be able to get in.
And the quashing of the neigh-sayers continues :)
As always, thanks for sharing your expertise Matthias
Cheers
Remember that for the inertia the radius of the mass is squared
Not wanting to walk 30s every time is a completely serious and legitimate reason to do this on its own, Mathias.
Why can't you cut out big chunks from the wheel and then cover it with a thin material like plastic/vinyl sheet on both sides? Maybe even sandpaper and make it multi-purpose. That way the overall weight is reduced and the problem of dust collecting/wind generation etc., are eliminated.
Und warum nimmst du keine Motoradräder? Ich hatte an meiner Bandsäge einen 1,5PS Motor der mir zu schnell aufgab. Jetzt habe ich einen 4PS 3Phasenmotor der nie langsamer wird
Have you priced construction lumber lately? It's enough to make a guy go scrounging through the garbage for a month.
Not quite as bad here in Canada as in the US, due to US import tariffs.
Would it be possible to use multiple smaller wheels to create a trapezium shaped path for the blade? It seems to me like that would be a better design if you don't want to take up a lot of vertical space but want to maximize the distance to the left of the cutting area. The only downsides I can see are the increased friction from the additional wheels, complexity of aligning 4 wheels, and the additional horizontal space required. When you're getting to wheel sizes that are around a meter in diameter it seems like you're not really gaining much extra room compared to how much extra blade length you need to span the wheels. Four 50cm wheels could fit into the same amount of space but spread the blade out much wider to give both more horizontal room and more vertical cutting height in a similar space.
I cant remember the details but check the previous video that he mentioned
He decided against it because the smaller wheel diameter means the blade would curve harder (more severe) and thus resulting in higher stress in the blade. Which leads to material fatigue and blade failure. So after all it wasn't worth it.
I have a 3-wheeled bandsaw. I never use it because it's a giant pain to get the blade to track right. It's easier for me to use hand tools to make those kind of cuts than it is to deal with the wonky blade tracking.
Dondiy did one with motorcycle wheels
Myth busting bandsaws I have learned a lot about them. Great content thanks for upload
Spinning holes are also noisy.
spokes making the wheel a fan... Dust collection solution? think that could work?
if you want to suck air in the back of the saw and blow the dust out the front, yes. If you want to suck the dust away, no.
A motorcycle would have a thicker shaft. But the max diameter would be 21" and they'd be quite wide. In the 80s, Honda had a 23" front. And you'd be tightening the spokes all the time. Wood is a better choice.
ehh even if the naysayers think the motor is too weak, pulleys can be changed and so can the motor if it ends up not working. It isn't a fundamental part of the design.
2:29 I cannot for the life of me hear what was said, lower "grianite" wheels? Maybe it's just my phone's speakers or something
Same, I looked to turn on captions but they weren't available.
Granite, you know, the rock
@@7tqpbnvh7tqpbnvh77 Thanks :)
Yeah granite. Steel City are a company that make bandsaws among other things.
Solid stone lower wheel, and cast iron upper. And solid granite tilting table. "No rust" is what they advertise.
Not, "stupid and dangerous".
Yes, the USA Steel City Made a bandsaw with a Granite table, and Granite lower wheel. They were a group of Delta engineers who started Steel City Power Tools. I have the USA Steel City Band Saw and love it. I can resaw to its max capacity with ease. Unfortunately USA Steel City failed. It is now a Canadian company that bought Steel City. They have expanded the line and seem to be doing well. USA Steel City made good quality WW tools at a great price. Yes they incorporated Granite in some tools. Idea was granite is flat and stays flat and of course no rust. I have the USA Steel City Jointer with the Granite top. It is dead flat and of course never rusts! Disagree that the granite bottom wheel is stupid! Love mine!
You say this will be used for re-sawing, I have some 1” wide bandsaw blades for re-sawing would they work on these drive wheels, or would the wheels need to be wider?
He said not for re-sawing, but for more throat width.
Your type of humor is just comedy gold! :D
I figured it out - the issue of additional content for patreon supporters. Maybe instead you can just release videos early to them, or make a channel like this one exclusive to patreon instead.
Many more serious mountain bike wheels use a 20mm thru-axle, they'd be worth considering at least.
I would still need to find a solid 20 mm axle that is about 3x as long.
Not trying to convince you at all, but I wonder if what they use for lefty forks would help if someone wanted to do this. (For anyone who doesn't know a lefty fork isn't a "fork" at all, it's one-sided and connects to the wheel on one side.). A potential way forward would be an old lefty wheel (no idea on the axles available,) a cheap tire insert typically meant to go inside tires to prevent flats and protect rims, and stretch the innertube right over that.
Again I don't care one way or another - that's just what popped into my mind!
You could fabricate plastic hubcaps to cover the spokes from HDPE, to counteract the air turbulence problem. Would the spoke wheels handle the stresses of driving the blade?
What do you use to cut the 1" shaft?
hmm... supporting an ebike wheel from both sides isn't any more complicated than supporting a wheel from one side. Just make it symmetrical.
What does he say at 2:24 ? With something-something wheels?
So what are you going to do with the electric bike wheel?
nothing
Would it be possible to build a bandsaw in 2 separate parts and eliminate the post near the cutting table all together by mounting the upper wheel to the ceiling rafters and the lower to the floor?
The blade still needs to come down where the post normally goes, so this doesn't help.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 of course. Feeling dumb now haha
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Couldn't you go crazy and make a giant four wheel bandsaw? Run the blade along the ceiling and under the floor. Having it built-in to the room should eliminate the floor space issue of a three wheeled bandsaw. I'm sure it would introduce several other problems, though.
While you are at it, make this new saw "left handed" (column on the right). This will permit cutting "on the other side". So you can switch saws for curved cuts, or requiring cuts "on the other side".
Another thing: you need to provide a table adjustment that permits rotation about vertical axis, to correct for "lead angle". This adjustment capability need be only a handful of degrees each way. I am sick of all the klugy schemes for correct for lead, including setting the fence off-square, and using "resaw posts" instead of a real fence. It's time for bandsaw manufacturers to wake up!
A lefty would be handy from time to time, but if I make plans available, then a lefty is not ideal. And being much bigger, more stuff fits on the left side as it is already.
What about building the gearing whit a vario gear ? Like a scooter gear ?
and what does that have to do with bandsaws?
Why not experiment with some foam, maybe you could make a solid wheel with high density foam and it may still be pretty light