Hi Adam. First of all, please dont think that we wanted to bully you into this. People are just sooooooooo fed up with EVERYTHING being a subscription service. And especially since the Mk1 was a really useful and great tool. Thanks for such a quick and great response. Just yesterday I used Mk1 to cretea a new ASA profile for my V0.1 I keep coming back to it every time I get a new printer/filament. Looking forward to seing how you evolve Mk2. I already bought it and am excited for any future developments for calilantern too!
nah, I would have absolutely bullied. subscription models are greedy and centralised services even moreso, not to mention the fact that as soon as those centralised services are down, everyone who has paid more than they wanted to has now lost access to the thing that they paid for. it's not acceptable for anything ever.
Subscriptions are not inherently bad things as long as the benefit of the subscription is increased commensurate with the subscription payments. Despite what consumers may think, it still costs money to keep something that already exists in service. Somebody has to pay to keep the lights on and food on your table. I think offering two distinct tiers that collectively represent the 80% use case is the best you will be able to do. You cannot please everyone all the time. Your willingness to accept feedback and make changes is exceptional and rare in this day and age.
Subscriptions are, in general, an evil thing. It really doesn't have much to do with price. But in the end, it really become more expensive than a one-time purchase. It's ok for business because they are generating profit, so it kind of balances itself. But it's pure evil in personal use. To be clear, I am talking about subscription models in general, not for this.
Yes, this is what I learned is many peoples opinion over the last few days. I think they CAN be used responsibly and fairly, they just aren't, which is why people are fed up.
@@Vector3DPpersonally I just got burned to many time with subscriptions, compared to a Normal one time payment. and I think for many others it's the same. Good Exempel is the Desaster with the VMware licensing
Misleading subscriptions or subscriptions for things that aren't actually a service are really what I have a problem with. If you have a subscription for printer ink, yeah that's usually scammy but it doesn't have to be. If you have a subscription to a streaming platform, it depends on how you actually run that streaming platform. If you have a subscription for a piece of software that doesn't need to connect a server or use anything that costs the distributor a recurring cost for you to use, that's the kind of software subscription I have a problem with. I don't think it's about overall cost to the consumer, it's more about a company charging a recurring fee for something that only costs them money once.
@@theredstormer8078Actually a software that is being actively maintained and developed does cost money for the developer continously. I don't know which model is more evel: a subscription, or when you have to buy it again and again when a new version is out. There are softwares that has a model that is subscription based but when you cancel your subscription it is automatically converted to a lifetime licence for the last version you have paid for. For example Pycharm works like that.
@@Vector3DP I could agree that they can be used responsibly. Like streaming music or movies, but those are for people who are ok with possibility that tomorow they won't have access to it anymore. Not to mention all the edits that they have been caught making to the shows and movies. I've been in my field of work for 17 years now. I have seen software go from licence to subscription. In those 17 years, I have seen maybe 5 big upgrades, and maybe 3 tweaks that would warrant purchase of new licence. Of those 8 upgrades, not a single one have been made in last 5-6 years. And what is worse, because of need for constant online connectivity software have become more sluggish (because of constant licence cheching) and they haven't made any effort to streamline designing proccess (regarding to the amount of clicks that you have to make). Subscription is the bane of progress and that is evident more and more. Heck, even now streaming services try to have new hit just to keep people subscribed, but aren't making anything new, everything is made from the same mould. Now, why they didn't do anything about those who want to streamline the proccess and know exactly what to change? Because of investors. Polishing exsisting features can't be presented to investors as something that will bring new customers. What is worse, company is the same company that makes now so popular "free" alternative for 3D modeling, and because of all youtubers that use it for free people think it's a good software, while at the same time, you can, literarely end up locked out of your account over night with no abillity to access your files, because everything is in that "shangri-la" or "golden city" of "CLOUD". I am sorry for such a long rant, but I just want to make it clear why people are fed-up with subscriptions. They all promise everything under the sun, but deliver nothing. Only thing that I can think of, that make some kind of sense, is Patreon for 3d modelers. You get 3d models that you download and can use whenever you want, at a discounted price compared to regular release, and they get some amount of constant revenue... On the other hand, most of those models can be purchased later at higher price, when ever you have the money.
Hey Adam, thanks for the video and for your reconsideration. Personally i am in the camp of "i only need it once per year (or maybe even less since my printers dont get changed much), so a subscription is a bad value preposition", but with the lifetime license you've won me back and i've just ordered 👍
Good on you for listening to your community 🤙 I was surprised aswell about the subscription and kind of drove me away from it but thats just my opinion. Cheers!
Thanks for listening! For commercial realistically a per printer per year would be fair and make sense, but then smaller commercial people might feel off put so yeah your solution is genuinely generous
Wow, I am so happy I missed out on this drama. I mean, I would have lost so much respect if I had known you made a physical tool into a subscription service. Because that's basically what the Califlower is. It's a tool and you wouldn't buy calipers on a subscription plan either if they are just fine as they are. So, thanks, now I only lost respect for a few mins and regained it with this video - it pays not to rush to see any newly uploaded video, I guess;)
Glad to see there is a change. Hats off too you for being honest, its what was needed. Whilst we will disagree on the subscription front being suitable at all anywhere, as long as you are able to maintain once off purchasing of your product you are doing alot better than software vendors which no doubt alot of us deal with often. TL;DR - Glad one time purchase is back to being a thing, glad you were able to admit there was a problem and get it solved. More purchases incoming, likely forgoing the upgrade route as a way of thanks.
Happy to see this change. Also, I would appreciate to see the discount code for current Califlower Mk1 owners, for the Calilantern, which in essence, is heavily based on Califlower.
Thanks for listening to the community Adam! One time for personal use and subscription for businesses is a reasonable compromise. This was the right thing to do
Huh, this is the first vector3d video I've ever seen - watching the video this is a response to, I think this is maybe an example of where a subscription kind of makes sense? On the other hand, if you can make it profitable enough with a one time subscription and customers are more likely to buy because of that, then sure why not
I think this is the best. First that you are willing to change your opinion says lots about you in a good sense. And leaving it as a more expensive option for personal use, because it's a good product and it should be treated like it, is perfect and as a subscription for businesses. Definitely getting one for me and will try to get one for my office. Great work!
Thanks a lot for the route change. I will purchase it tonight. I can suggest you to choose a basic hosting like 1and1 or similar that has infinite month bandwidth. People are not going to use the test so much, so the server can be perfect a low tier one. Also, make all your js, css, img minimal and gzip compressed, and with long cache date time. At least for the server cost, this will help you a lot. In the developer part, IA is doing amazing things this days. I will try it before purchasing any update plan for your software with any company. I hope this could help you a little. Thanks for all!!! Best wishes. PD: i will try to download your test page tonight and i will check the size and weight of all elenents. I will use it in local in my machine if is possible.
Yeah IMO paid version upgrades are nicer than subscriptions. It also mean you're not pressured to add features just to justify the recurring fee. My reaction was to shrug, and decide I wouldn't upgrade until I needed it (to min-max my year). Now that I don't need to worry about that, I'm sure I'll be upgrading sooner.
Cool. I am now going to go buy it. You are right on the matter of most people only using it a couple times a year. I experiment with a lot of filaments, so I probably use it a couple times a month, but like everyone else, I have enough subscriptions. Thank you for listening and making this great tool! Also, I do think it is fair for commercial use to be a subscription.
I am completely fine with the v2 subscription pricing and have already purchased it with no reservations whatesoever, but thank you for listening to all customers and community, I think that's awesome. I will be buying other products from you shortly, because they're excellent products and something I want to use. Keep up the excellent work and I enjoy all your videos and watch each one. 👍👍
THANK YOU For doing this. I’m looking forward to buying this when I can get my printer working. I do love that A1. I’m just saying with my birthday next month.😂
I feel like a subscription model can be beneficial, but it definitely has to be used right for it to work out, and unfortunately there's so many out there that don't that it's just kind of left a sour taste and everyone's mouth about it.. I do feel like your revisions suit everyone well, tho
The calibration cube is different to the califlower, using the calibration cube only goes so far with the flower itself gives you better results for smaller & bigger prints. The cube is really only good for those that print off small prints.
Hi Adam, the tool itself is amazing what you created and defo worth it. But i got to agree subscription for personal use was putting me off a little. No offence to you at all and what you created. Just hate the concept of subscription and how they can screw people over. I might be the only one or not but i much prefer paying a higher upfront cost than paying a subscription
I miss when people in the 3D printing community just had jobs, and did this stuff on the side as something they loved. This new generation of people in 3D printing have really spoiled what the RepRap community was building.
Hey, just wanted to give my opinion, tho i know it's not the most popular here I think your subscription scheme was fair, you are entitled to ask for fair compensation for your work, and at the end of the day, it's on you to decide what feels like fair compensation for your work and time. It's on the consumer to decide if the price is right for them, it's not like they are forced to use YOUR system to calibrate their printers, there are alternatives I do prefer a one time purchase scheme, but i would have been more than happy to pay 7 pound a year, I'm perfectly willing to pay for filament every time i print something, i feel paying for a model is not too different
Does the discount apply to Calilantern owners as well? As a hobbyist I definitely would not purchase this as a subscription, but after the changes it's a more interesting offer (from my perspective). People are just fed up with everything they like and know turning into a subscription
@@Vector3DP Gotcha, that's fair. Wasn't sure if Calilantern will get the same overhaul, but looks like your comment confirms it. Keep up the good work!
Something not subscription related: did you finally fix the issue with the wrong scaling? When something is 10% too small, then increasing it by 10% to reach the desired length is WRONG. (Adding 11.111% is the way to go) If you need the formula then I'll set up subscription service somewhere, just give me a note. I did send you a longer mail about this, which sadly was unanswered.
Hi Adam.
First of all, please dont think that we wanted to bully you into this.
People are just sooooooooo fed up with EVERYTHING being a subscription service.
And especially since the Mk1 was a really useful and great tool.
Thanks for such a quick and great response.
Just yesterday I used Mk1 to cretea a new ASA profile for my V0.1 I keep coming back to it every time I get a new printer/filament.
Looking forward to seing how you evolve Mk2. I already bought it and am excited for any future developments for calilantern too!
Purchased V2 Version. Trying to use it offline to not consume bandwith in the server. Thanks @vector3D.
dont speak for all.. i really bullied! :D
What is MK1?
@@MShazarul The first release of the califlower
nah, I would have absolutely bullied. subscription models are greedy and centralised services even moreso, not to mention the fact that as soon as those centralised services are down, everyone who has paid more than they wanted to has now lost access to the thing that they paid for. it's not acceptable for anything ever.
This is a great switch/clarification! Listening to your customers is key!
Thank you for the details of your correction and realistic approach to selling your great tool for us.
Subscriptions are not inherently bad things as long as the benefit of the subscription is increased commensurate with the subscription payments. Despite what consumers may think, it still costs money to keep something that already exists in service. Somebody has to pay to keep the lights on and food on your table. I think offering two distinct tiers that collectively represent the 80% use case is the best you will be able to do. You cannot please everyone all the time. Your willingness to accept feedback and make changes is exceptional and rare in this day and age.
Listening to the community and understanding our point of view makes us much more likely to continue to support you.
Good going. I’m buying with a tip just to reward you for making the pricing change. Thanks.
Subscriptions are, in general, an evil thing. It really doesn't have much to do with price. But in the end, it really become more expensive than a one-time purchase. It's ok for business because they are generating profit, so it kind of balances itself. But it's pure evil in personal use. To be clear, I am talking about subscription models in general, not for this.
Yes, this is what I learned is many peoples opinion over the last few days. I think they CAN be used responsibly and fairly, they just aren't, which is why people are fed up.
@@Vector3DPpersonally I just got burned to many time with subscriptions, compared to a Normal one time payment.
and I think for many others it's the same.
Good Exempel is the Desaster with the VMware licensing
Misleading subscriptions or subscriptions for things that aren't actually a service are really what I have a problem with. If you have a subscription for printer ink, yeah that's usually scammy but it doesn't have to be. If you have a subscription to a streaming platform, it depends on how you actually run that streaming platform.
If you have a subscription for a piece of software that doesn't need to connect a server or use anything that costs the distributor a recurring cost for you to use, that's the kind of software subscription I have a problem with.
I don't think it's about overall cost to the consumer, it's more about a company charging a recurring fee for something that only costs them money once.
@@theredstormer8078Actually a software that is being actively maintained and developed does cost money for the developer continously. I don't know which model is more evel: a subscription, or when you have to buy it again and again when a new version is out. There are softwares that has a model that is subscription based but when you cancel your subscription it is automatically converted to a lifetime licence for the last version you have paid for. For example Pycharm works like that.
@@Vector3DP I could agree that they can be used responsibly. Like streaming music or movies, but those are for people who are ok with possibility that tomorow they won't have access to it anymore. Not to mention all the edits that they have been caught making to the shows and movies. I've been in my field of work for 17 years now. I have seen software go from licence to subscription. In those 17 years, I have seen maybe 5 big upgrades, and maybe 3 tweaks that would warrant purchase of new licence. Of those 8 upgrades, not a single one have been made in last 5-6 years. And what is worse, because of need for constant online connectivity software have become more sluggish (because of constant licence cheching) and they haven't made any effort to streamline designing proccess (regarding to the amount of clicks that you have to make). Subscription is the bane of progress and that is evident more and more. Heck, even now streaming services try to have new hit just to keep people subscribed, but aren't making anything new, everything is made from the same mould. Now, why they didn't do anything about those who want to streamline the proccess and know exactly what to change? Because of investors. Polishing exsisting features can't be presented to investors as something that will bring new customers. What is worse, company is the same company that makes now so popular "free" alternative for 3D modeling, and because of all youtubers that use it for free people think it's a good software, while at the same time, you can, literarely end up locked out of your account over night with no abillity to access your files, because everything is in that "shangri-la" or "golden city" of "CLOUD". I am sorry for such a long rant, but I just want to make it clear why people are fed-up with subscriptions. They all promise everything under the sun, but deliver nothing. Only thing that I can think of, that make some kind of sense, is Patreon for 3d modelers. You get 3d models that you download and can use whenever you want, at a discounted price compared to regular release, and they get some amount of constant revenue... On the other hand, most of those models can be purchased later at higher price, when ever you have the money.
Hey Adam,
thanks for the video and for your reconsideration.
Personally i am in the camp of "i only need it once per year (or maybe even less since my printers dont get changed much), so a subscription is a bad value preposition", but with the lifetime license you've won me back and i've just ordered 👍
Good on you for being willing to listen to feedback and change your plan on this, it's rare to see and extremely welcome.
Good on you for listening to your community 🤙 I was surprised aswell about the subscription and kind of drove me away from it but thats just my opinion. Cheers!
Thank you for your contributions to the community. Never got around to purchasing the Mk1, making the Mk2 purchase now.
Thank you for listening! That alone is unbelievably invaluable, and you have my continued support.
Thanks for being responsive and updating your pricing
Thanks for listening!
For commercial realistically a per printer per year would be fair and make sense, but then smaller commercial people might feel off put so yeah your solution is genuinely generous
Wow, I am so happy I missed out on this drama. I mean, I would have lost so much respect if I had known you made a physical tool into a subscription service. Because that's basically what the Califlower is. It's a tool and you wouldn't buy calipers on a subscription plan either if they are just fine as they are.
So, thanks, now I only lost respect for a few mins and regained it with this video - it pays not to rush to see any newly uploaded video, I guess;)
Glad to see there is a change. Hats off too you for being honest, its what was needed.
Whilst we will disagree on the subscription front being suitable at all anywhere, as long as you are able to maintain once off purchasing of your product you are doing alot better than software vendors which no doubt alot of us deal with often.
TL;DR - Glad one time purchase is back to being a thing, glad you were able to admit there was a problem and get it solved. More purchases incoming, likely forgoing the upgrade route as a way of thanks.
After understanding your POV It'd be cool to be able to access the subscription, but I will be purchasing it regardless
Bought it as soon as it released, I use it with every new filament and I'm happy with it.
Happy to see this change.
Also, I would appreciate to see the discount code for current Califlower Mk1 owners, for the Calilantern, which in essence, is heavily based on Califlower.
Thanks for listening to the community Adam! One time for personal use and subscription for businesses is a reasonable compromise. This was the right thing to do
Huh, this is the first vector3d video I've ever seen - watching the video this is a response to, I think this is maybe an example of where a subscription kind of makes sense? On the other hand, if you can make it profitable enough with a one time subscription and customers are more likely to buy because of that, then sure why not
I think this is the best. First that you are willing to change your opinion says lots about you in a good sense. And leaving it as a more expensive option for personal use, because it's a good product and it should be treated like it, is perfect and as a subscription for businesses. Definitely getting one for me and will try to get one for my office.
Great work!
Thanks a lot for the route change. I will purchase it tonight.
I can suggest you to choose a basic hosting like 1and1 or similar that has infinite month bandwidth. People are not going to use the test so much, so the server can be perfect a low tier one. Also, make all your js, css, img minimal and gzip compressed, and with long cache date time. At least for the server cost, this will help you a lot.
In the developer part, IA is doing amazing things this days. I will try it before purchasing any update plan for your software with any company.
I hope this could help you a little. Thanks for all!!! Best wishes.
PD: i will try to download your test page tonight and i will check the size and weight of all elenents. I will use it in local in my machine if is possible.
Yeah IMO paid version upgrades are nicer than subscriptions. It also mean you're not pressured to add features just to justify the recurring fee. My reaction was to shrug, and decide I wouldn't upgrade until I needed it (to min-max my year). Now that I don't need to worry about that, I'm sure I'll be upgrading sooner.
Thanks adam!
I am happy to buy another one now 🙂
How you define "commercial" vs. "personal?"
Cool. I am now going to go buy it. You are right on the matter of most people only using it a couple times a year. I experiment with a lot of filaments, so I probably use it a couple times a month, but like everyone else, I have enough subscriptions. Thank you for listening and making this great tool! Also, I do think it is fair for commercial use to be a subscription.
Will there be an update to the calilantern as well?
Yep, in development at the moment, coming a few* months
I am completely fine with the v2 subscription pricing and have already purchased it with no reservations whatesoever, but thank you for listening to all customers and community, I think that's awesome. I will be buying other products from you shortly, because they're excellent products and something I want to use. Keep up the excellent work and I enjoy all your videos and watch each one. 👍👍
THANK YOU For doing this. I’m looking forward to buying this
when I can get my printer working.
I do love that A1. I’m just saying with my birthday next month.😂
Great explanation. I bought the previous version, with the Excel sheet. I am very happy with it.
I feel like a subscription model can be beneficial, but it definitely has to be used right for it to work out, and unfortunately there's so many out there that don't that it's just kind of left a sour taste and everyone's mouth about it.. I do feel like your revisions suit everyone well, tho
Thank you for ditching personal subscriptions. I’ve rebought it as a thank you. 🙏
How does the discount for people that already owns the old one works
I really like how your voice reminders me of RWBY Professor Bartholomew Oobleck 😂. Thank you for your work.
Will Calilantern get an update as well?
Bro is trying to turn a calibration cube into a career. Good luck.
The calibration cube is different to the califlower, using the calibration cube only goes so far with the flower itself gives you better results for smaller & bigger prints. The cube is really only good for those that print off small prints.
Hi Adam, the tool itself is amazing what you created and defo worth it. But i got to agree subscription for personal use was putting me off a little. No offence to you at all and what you created. Just hate the concept of subscription and how they can screw people over. I might be the only one or not but i much prefer paying a higher upfront cost than paying a subscription
I miss when people in the 3D printing community just had jobs, and did this stuff on the side as something they loved. This new generation of people in 3D printing have really spoiled what the RepRap community was building.
Hey, just wanted to give my opinion, tho i know it's not the most popular here
I think your subscription scheme was fair, you are entitled to ask for fair compensation for your work, and at the end of the day, it's on you to decide what feels like fair compensation for your work and time.
It's on the consumer to decide if the price is right for them, it's not like they are forced to use YOUR system to calibrate their printers, there are alternatives
I do prefer a one time purchase scheme, but i would have been more than happy to pay 7 pound a year, I'm perfectly willing to pay for filament every time i print something, i feel paying for a model is not too different
Does the discount apply to Calilantern owners as well? As a hobbyist I definitely would not purchase this as a subscription, but after the changes it's a more interesting offer (from my perspective). People are just fed up with everything they like and know turning into a subscription
There will be a more appropriate discount for Calilantern users when the app version comes in the coming months.
@@Vector3DP Gotcha, that's fair. Wasn't sure if Calilantern will get the same overhaul, but looks like your comment confirms it. Keep up the good work!
The only thing you messed up with was not having paypal and ideal as payment option a few days ago LOL. Thanks for adding them into the shop.
Ideal is new. We have had PayPal since day 1. I think the subscription model only allowed card though because of sequential payment stuff.
Alright! Now I consider buying when I'll get the time to play with that kind of calibration, good changes👍
Something not subscription related: did you finally fix the issue with the wrong scaling? When something is 10% too small, then increasing it by 10% to reach the desired length is WRONG. (Adding 11.111% is the way to go) If you need the formula then I'll set up subscription service somewhere, just give me a note. I did send you a longer mail about this, which sadly was unanswered.
That'such better. I'll probably do my purchase later. And there will be an the optional tip 😊👍 also. Hope you feel better.
Was put off by the first video, ordered now !
Thank you Adam! Now I will buy MK2 for sure!