Tank, I think I may have an explanation and if I'm correct you may hear a different version released. That mix isn't just chaotic and lopsided. That distortion is a dead giveaway; Whoever the fool was that mastered that record just dumped the dynamic compression on it until it brought everything to its loudest. Which by the way, you hear a lot these days. Man if that is the case I hope they re master it and re release the video with remastered audio. Sounds like someone had that mix nice and layered and subtle and the compressor came on and everything got pulled out of context. Metallica did it on that record everybody bitched about the mix of and people said it sounded distorted. That mastering job was too "loud". And that's what I'm hearing here.
I was disappointed as well that the vocals were hard to hear. I like this other mix way better. What do you think Tank? ua-cam.com/video/QO3IdXMWPEk/v-deo.html
I appreciate reactors who are REAL. If you like something, say you like it. If you don’t, say you don’t. I’m so tired of reactors trying to lie to fan bases to not upset anyone. Good job Tank.
Eh, i dont think that ever works. The only reason people watch reactions is because they want the experience of showing their friend something they really like, but without the risk of their friend potentially not liking it. If you do react content you kinda HAVE to be positive
yeah, 95% of reactors are fake as fuck. I get it though, they get money by acting like they give a shit about some band or movie or tv show. Lol, and people pay money to watch the awful fakeness. There are a few good reactors out there that give 100% honest reactions. Not everything has to be 100% positive. Real life doesn't work like that. In real life not everyone will enjoy the same stuff. That's called life.
Also fact is, Tank was disappointed to Nightwish earlier, cause he didnt get any money for their reactions. Also fact is, he is Electric cowboy fanboy cause he gets money from them and tours with them. Of course he likes them. And he said he likes Nightwish also. This mixing just wasnt his taste and thats ok. But if you think money doesnt matter, when you make these, get the fuck out here 😂 Everybody has to make living.
Love when reactors are genuine and honest. They don’t just say they like this and how awesome it is to not offend someone, and then a couple months down the road offhandedly remark of how it wasn’t my favorite and it was just ok…
A lot of ppl dont seem to realize (or care) that half of the music channels on this website are effectively doing access journalism. If they do a lot of interviews you're probably not gonna hear them criticize anything very much. Some of them will do clickbait stuff to feed on controversies but then present it like "People are saying this, I'm not saying it, I disagree with it, actually (controversial band/figure) is very cool & good"
The diver isn't CGI if anyone thought that. His name is Guillaume Néry (some images might be his wife Julie Gautier) and the images is from his film "One breath around the world"
Have you listened to Tribal? Also he the best singer, he had Marko (better than most lead singers), he has an amazing drummer and the London Philharmonic. At one point a man has to choose...
Thanks for the opinion, Tank! I don't feel lonely now that someone has translated my thoughts into the right words. And yes, I repeat here that if something is done for a reason, it doesn't mean that it is good.
Well consider the song name. What does perfume do? Just as all the DEI noise we are evaporating getting weaker. Between all the kids getting transgender assignment surgeries crime wars we are erasing our existance. Let's not forget about abortions. Just as the political noise keeps drowning us out. So the music drowns Floors voice. Is this the point of the song? One must ask the question. You know Nightwish is strong on the story telling and has a message.
I totally understand you feeling this way. I’m a huge Nightwish fan and have been since the early 2000’s. Their music has always meant so much to me and shaped how I listen to music growing up. I so want to love this song because all the elements are there but I just can’t. The mix throws me off so much. I gave it multiple tries and I have accepted it for what it is. That way I can pick apart the pieces I like but I’m not in love. It hasn’t made my playlist. Normally when a Nightwish song comes out I play it to death on repeat but I haven’t with this one. I was excited for the new album and now I’m nervous. I can respect that this was Tuomas choice and he wanted to do something with this and he has this right. But I just can’t connect and I’m glad it’s not just me that is disappointed.
Same here. Nightwish is my all time favourite band, and this song is just... kind of disappointing. I was really sad about that for a few days, but in the end it is what it is... I can only hope the rest of the album will be better..
I felt like this about the last album too. The band has gone off on a tangent and I don't think I want to follow. It always seems to happen eventually, but I thought after 20+ years that Nightwish were immune....
Kai also said "it is, what it is" - so HE seems not to be fine with it. And that makes one wonder who else in the band might be disappoited with how Tuomas uses their "instruments"...
@@methanbreather Exactly.Not many people also will like song with this mix.So what is the reason to released it if not for people to listening? Also I don't think music label agree to realese this whole album like this as a final product.
I find that to be true with most symphonic metal people unless it's a song that was meant to have a heavy choral part like Ghost Love Score. Then I'm a bit torn because I love the choir on the studio, but it does get lost live unless your in a small venue. That's kind of why I like Scardust. Noa brings the choir with her. It's not a big one, but it's enough.
@@SymphonicEllen Blind Guardian is amazing in that way too because 1. the crowd becomes the needed choir and 2. every band member except the drummer does back up vocals. There was of course this Demons and Wizards show at Wacken where they did have a choir but that is rare. But I truly adore the BG approach of crowd as choir for their more complicated songs.
A lot of people are saying the vocals are deliberately low in the mix but I honestly think hearing the vocal tracks more clearly would make it better. It being a deliberate choice doesn't free the song from criticism. Hopefully we get to hear Floor a bit louder on other songs.
“Buh…buh…but the mix is intentional!!!” (Rant Incoming)- I’m really getting fed up of the Nightwish fanbase constantly deluding themselves into thinking that Tuomas can do no wrong. The guy’s a musical genius don’t get me wrong (Dark Passion Play is one of my top 10 favourite albums by any band ever), but even he is capable of making dumb artistic choices. This mix is a prime example. Not to mention that the guy’s ego has been getting bigger and bigger for years at this point. He completely went up his own ass on the Human Nature album. As for this song? While it is an improvement on most of what was on the last album, it still has the same air of pretentiousness that has been steadily building in Nightwish’s music ever since Tuomas got a boner for evolution (and Troy) on Endless Forms Most Beautiful. Funnily enough, Endless Forms is also the point when their albums’ mixes started to get worse (especially in terms of the vocals). FFS they have an absolute powerhouse of a singer in Floor and they’ve been misusing her ever since she came into the band. Pop on either of the Nightwish albums she’s been featured on and then go spin After Forever’s self titled record from 07. It’s night and day with how amazing she sounds on that album compared to how buried in the mix she is on her Nightwish studio recordings. Rant Concluded. #AndJusticeForFloor
NW did it with Tarja also. The mix of the songs was often odd in The older albums too. Live Tarja and live Floor have usually sounded much better than on albums.
I frigging love Human Nature. I like Nightwish but was not a huge fan until that album. It's so powerful and the composition is a cut above all their past work. I cried the first time I listened to it through. So, to each their own I guess.
@kmacgregor6361 Fair enough I guess I mean it’s all subject to taste at the end of the day. There are highlights on it (Noise, Pan, How’s the Heart), but for me it just lacks the punch of the previous albums both in the production as well as the performances. That 2nd disc is almost entirely worthless imo. It’s kinda pretty at points but I paid for a Nightwish album. I didn’t pay to hear Tuomas’s film score audition 💁♂️
The fact Tank was so disappointed indicates that most of their music is NOT lik3 this (at least in mix). He even stated as such. I can confirm this. Its worth giving them a chance, I reckon. Their music is so varied , you are likely to find stuff you like. I do like this song and I'm not as bothered by the mix as Tank, but I do agree it should be mixed so the component parts were clearer. (Floor's singing in particular but there is a kind of fuzzy distortion over everything, here.)
How dare you. They gave us an great Bridge , nearly 25 Seconds ! how are you not satisfied and dont bow to the Superiority of Tuomas Message! You dont know Art, you are no Fan, you are numb...did i forget something?:) Saddest Thing: it will stay this Way and it wont get better , thats what i fear...so....*starting Wemlbey 2k15 Live*
@@alexandersteinmetz6857 , I am glad to hear it, sir. I admit, with all the wild zealotry from much of the NW fanbase, I always feel the need to check. Have a high five. ✋️
The song could be so good, but the mix sucks. Nightwish says the mix is intentional, which disappoints me even more. Tuomas tries too hard to show off his art and forgets that he has amazing musicians and a talented singer.
The worst thing a composer can do is forget that performance is what brings the song to life. He needs to crawl down out of his own ass and start caring about the music again.
I think I may have a(n) hypothesis about why the song's mix is what it is. When I went to listen to this single, I noticed that it had the Dolby Atmos logo on it, which indicates that the song was likely mixed with spatial audio in mind. I have a feeling that Nightwish and Apple agreed to do something special with the album on Apple Music; the album image itself has animations, So, I think the song was mixed for spatial audio, and I have a feeling that the producer did a quick stereo conversion so that it could be played elsewhere. I played the song with spatial audio, and I think it does overall sound better than the mix we got here. Floor's vocals were still resigned to be only slightly louder than the choir that appears in the second act. I really hope that Nightwish will release this album with both a stereo and spatial audio version.
That, actually makes sense. I'm only watching this now, and has no idea there was an issue. I'd heard the song the day it was released on my (overly expensive) Samsung buds. So that might explain why I never noticed it was mixed weird
For those who are candid and not drinking the Nightwish Kool-Aid Epica and I would add nearly so Therion have been the best symphonic true metal bands for a long time my friend
I find it crazy that both positive and negative comments are like 90% about the volume of Floor's voice. I personally don't have a problem with her voice being in the background for the song. But I don't enjoy the song overall because either half of the mix is too quiet and I barely hear it or the other half is so loud and aggressive that I get a headache. If I am not supposed to hear the drums in some parts, why are they even playing?
And this is a problem. All musicians / singers in the band are too talented to be buried in the mix. Tuomas has his own vision for this song, but still, mix needs to be better to achieve this "vision." Thank you for your comment.
I felt like this about the last album too. The band has gone off on a tangent and I don't think I want to follow. It always seems to happen eventually, but I thought after 20+ years that Nightwish were immune.... Sorry, I'm at 11:30 in but I can't even listen to the rest of this song. I'm too bored.
sorry, but this just sounds like someone chewed up couple Nightwish albums and barfed them back out... This is just crap... little to no clarity in the musical mix... the song *sounds* like it could be really cool if it were remixed to the previous standards we have seen from Nightwish... This is just really sad...
All three NW singers are great and it's hard to say if Floor or Tarja is better. But I think Tarja really had something that inspired Tuomas to write music. After all, even Dark Passion Play is an album mainly inspired by her. Today, the band is apparently mainly a company, and Tuomas sees the people in it only as his instruments. Anette changed the sound of the band and they certainly benefited from it. Floor is great, but it's sad that people mainly associate her with a 10+ year old performance for Ghost Love Score, a 20 year old song that wasn't even written for her voice. The direction of Nightwish is completely opposite to the direction of Epica. Epica cut back on the orchestra and added guitar and heavy sound. Today, Tuomas buried everything with the orchestra, thinking he was the second Hans Zimmer. But ok. Nightwish is his, he can do what he wants with it and probably already does.
It was a different era tho. They were much younger and at the beginning with all the fresh ideas. After 20 years you maybe run out of fresh ideas maybe.
I get what you are saying, but Floor is simply the better singer. Tarja was singing at a time when having a classical singer was just becoming a thing. They were at the front of the game, but even back then Floor was an exceptional singer. She's the better classical vocalist (perhaps because Tarja has a deeper voice type that takes more time to develop) and remains the more flexible vocalist. I feel like these new albums are all songs that Tarja would have suited Anette better. They are just not using Floor's instrument properly. Ironically, it's the Tarja era compositions that show off what she can do.
I haven’t given a crap about Nightwish since the album “Once.” The garbage movie soundtrack vibe lost me. They should’ve just kept the epic power metal vibe and fought to keep Tarja. Which is sad, because I love Floor.
I'm also hoping that. The album is still 4 months off, probably 2 until they start manufacturing, So maybe, just maybe, they are still working on the mix. Also hoping the LP mix may be different and vinyl has different requirements.
@@thechurn4766No vinyl in the world has saved a bad mix, unfortunately! The mastering is different only, but as I said - even the best mastering can’t save the sound from a bad mix… And let’s not forget that the vinyl also has it’s own disadvantages at the end of the day
I hope too, but don't believe a lot / When Aria's first single of the upcoming 13th album dropped back in 2018 we in Russia thought the same way/ It turned out the album is a horrible disaster with the worst sound ever heard in my entire life. A sad thing for a former fan of a great heavy metal band
@iliangeorgiev1060 getting really tired of these muddy, overly compressed mixes. Producers have to bring back subtle dynamics to these recordings. The loudness wars ( I know they are somewhat over), and mixing for earbuds needs to stop. People that listen primarily to overly compressed MP3's on headphones are not audiophiles, and do not care about the mixing. So mix it for those of us who do care.
I feel like I'm missing something, because I think the song sounds fine. It didn't grab me as quickly as other Nightwish songs, but it has grown on me.
whew, I'm glad you and Chase said something, I thought it was just me, I couldn't figure out why I felt so sad YET everyone was "raving" about this. Don't get me wrong I love, love Nightwish and listen to them every day, but to be honest I was kinda hoping they'd veer a little toward my favorite "Master Passion Greed" but this one, I don't know. Glad you're honest in your assesssments.
I don't get all the issues people are having with the mix. I've listened to this song dozens of times in the car, on my phone with Beats headphones, and on my iPad with the iPad speakers and it sounds great. I can hear the drums just fine, and Floor's voice is easily heard throughout the entire song...for me. I've even listened to it with the sole purpose of trying to identify what people are complaining about and I just don't get it. I can hear the harmonies during the chorus with Floor riding over them, although I can't tell if they're 3- or 5-part harmonies. Admittedly, the song is heavy with the orchestra, so that might be what's distracting people from hearing Floor.
Everyone hears it, it's just muffled, extremely muffled, it's not putting vocals and instrumental (band instruments) in evidence, and it just sounds like there's a competition between the styles instead of a mesh, and the metal is loosing, because it's half a dozen against almost a hundred instruments, the actual members of the band are not in evidence at all, there's a reason a singer is a front man or front woman, people tend enjoy the actual vocals in evidence, the drumming the guitars, etc, and the attempt to use symphonic to generate an epic feel just falls flat, it's a very bad mixing, really very bad. They are clearly trying something new, but it sucks for most, but some people might enjoy, there's nothing wrong about that, but most people won't, at all.
@@JPDR120 A shitty mix it's a shitty mix no matter how intentional it is, the song has potential, but it sucks right now, probably gonna sound way better live.
It's always fascinated me that Toumas can write stuff like Poet and the Pendulum and Ghost Love Score, but also put out some of the most basic, boring, and forgettable things possible.
This is everything but boring or basic. Just because it has a simple melodic structure doesnt make it boring or basic. If you want to write a catchy song, which is the number one priority, simpler is almost always better
@@metalpuppet5798 We'll agree to disagree. There is nothing interesting or unique here. There are many symphonic metal bands that could have written this song. Same can't be said for something like Ghost Love Score.
What the hell is going on with the music industry, the bands? I mean, they've become complacent and entitled and boring. Is it the marketing team that pushes pop like soft music to become more recognizable and enjoyable to the crowd? Is it the people who think they can put out anything because people will listen and love them no matter what? Is it just the god complex given by fame? Is it the censorship of the label who pushes for softer music to sell more? I OPHE it's not AI.
@@mushroommagic1697 I'd say it's a lack of artistic standard within the creator. Like, how can Wish I Had An Angel and Ghost Love Score be on the same album? Makes no sense. Or Bye Bye Beautiful coming right after Poet And The Pendulum. Just how.
I am a huge Nightwish fan and good lord I’ve never been so disappointed by a release. This song had so much potential but the mix 😩 You said everything I’ve been feeling since this released.
I am a NW fan for 22-23 years now and I feel 100% just like you. At this point I feel like, NW cannot bring anything new to the table and this song in particular is a disappointment for me too. I sincerely hope, the other songs will be better.
7:44, Floor is buried in the mix. Horrible. You have, arguably the best singer on the planet in your band and the last two albums have not showcased her. Troy sang half of the last album, and now Floor sounds like she's humming along in the background. It literally sounds like a demo that she laid down melody tracks before she recorded the actual vocal. Sometimes egos get in the way of success.
I have every Nightwish Album and based on this song I am not pre-ordering this album I am now in a wait and see mode because damn they messed up on the technical side of things they took Great Instrumentals and Great Vocals and then mixed them together with a cement mixer and all of the grace and precision that entails.
@@lmbergamini great, but here it has a very obvious reason...in the chorus Floor is ONE of the TIMELESS....it is fully intentional and with a good reason.
I love when the very few and far between big name commentators I actually like criticize stuff. Not because I like hearing negative reviews. But because I know they're authentic and don't just pretend to like everything. You ain't gonna see Nik making anything like this. I usually am more inclined to watch smaller time reactors cuz I know they'll be more real cuz they're still doing it for themselves, not for the monetization and fanbase they cultivated. For the big dawgs to be real, you don't see that too much on UA-cam. I always knew Tank was different from the rest of the pack. I hate pandering.
It could be that the wrong recording was given to someone or some other mistake/miscommunication happened along the way. To quote Einstein, "there are two things I know to be infinite; the universe and humanity's potential to screw up, although I'm not 100% sure about the first."
I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like this as much as I wanted to. Since I'm not a musician or sound guy thanks for pointing out the mix. Now I understand.
Two minutes in and... This is SO boring. Get on with it. No, not getting any better. OK, that was it. It's like previous album. Straight from Disney movie soundtrack. Nowadays Tuomas does film scores with metal vibes and not the other way round. Even the great vocals of Floor is buried under hundreds of symphonic tracks. Bye bye beautiful Nigthwish. It was nice to know you 1996 to 2015 (EFMB being last interesting/good album). Luckily world is full of good metal.
People has the right of not liking things... BTW, I think many things said in this video are not well supported: 1. The level of composition in this doesn't make me think that “they don't care” about. You said: “I like the song itself”, and it is because it is well composed. 2. I am able to hear every element they mixed in the track, from the Floor voice, to the choir, even all the piano arragements... People were able to make covers of these... It is because everything is audible. It work this way: you can't expect to hear all the elements at the first time. There are so many instruments palying at the same time, that you have to discover each one in more listenings. 3. The concept of the song explains many of the things you are listening. For example, the chours is designed to express the idea of many people, because they are saying “we are the heirs... We are because of a million loves...” They are talking about so much people involved that it needs to sound like that, like a choir, not just one voice. 4. The bridge, which you said it sound like “duck sh*t”. It is supposed to sound dirty, strange, disonant... It has to be again with the concept of the piece, it is the complexity of the human being, all the goods and bad episodes of our history. You actually can see it in the video when they push you with a bunch of inconex images. You can't pretent to understand this in the first listening. I just see an intention to dislike for the controversy.
I have heard many opinions in the last 2 weeks, both from some reactors and from some of the fans, that mixing or mastering would not be good. But what matters most to me are the opinions of the band members and those from Finvox (I just saw a revealing interview in this regard, with Mika Jussila from Finvox, the one who handled the mastering of all Nightwish albums) - it seems obvious to me that this was the intention of the band members, because I understand that they gave their feedback permanently in this process. For me, the discussion on this topic is collateral. So I enjoy this creative manifestation of the band I love. Besides, I am convinced that the mixing will be completely different in their future live performances, years from now.
@@SamBrockmann A line from "Music" that seemed significant to me: "There, I'll greet the greedy crowd / But will never, never ever sing to them" I think this verse perfectly describes this situation, unfortunately. Unlike you, I don't have the absurd pretension to tell Tuomas what/how to do.
"I am convinced that the mixing will be completely different in their future live performances." That may be true, but people listen to album versions primarily, you don´t go to concerts every day.
Just means you can’t mix/master/engineer. And I’m in the same boat. I can hear what Tank is talking about, but mainly cause it was pointed out to me. Give me a random track, and I can tell you I think it sounds wrong, but idk why or how to fix it.
I have sometimes experienced how there have been two different mixes, one for the music video and one for the album version and, for their own sake, I hope that's the case. EDIT: In case you were wondering, I hadn't hit 13:05 yet when I wrote this 👈
Its great as is and they have collectively decided to do it this way. First of all shes intentionally part of the "choir of ancestors" and thats why she doesnt stand out as much. Which is a beautiful creative thought imo. Secondly this is symphonic Metal. The symphony plays a main role in it. Mixing it is already extremely difficult and the human voice interferes massively with orchestral instruments. So do guitars. If you want to hear the orchestra you will have to turn down that other stuff a little. No EQ is going to help here really. Its just going to make it sound thin a f. You can still hear and understand her. Most other symphonic Metal bands just drown out the orchestra in the mix just to have themselves be up front. Which is completely pointless. At that point you may as well not have the orchestra
Hardcore Nightwish fan here. Hope you will survive the Nightwish army after this one😆 But seriously, thank you for being honest with your opinion and reaction! I have to say, that I am very happy that their new song is more heavy again. Floor's vocals are a bit drowned by the orchestration, but I think it's on purpose in connection with the lyrics and meaning of the song. The part where the "chaotic" guitar part drops in makes more sense in connection with the music video, it's important to have this visuals. I listened to the song a lot since it released and I honestly think it's okay, I like it, but I can understand some of the criticism regarding the mixing. However, some people here making up points about AI or whatever or that they throw out music just to throw out music... Nightwish has been working on the album for the past three years, Tuomas had a clear picture in mind of what's it gonna be. For some of that time they didn't even had an official label because the contract with Nuclear blast ended. They had renewed their contract with them just recently, so there was no presure from Nuclear Blast during the album production. Also in an interview regarding the choosing of Perfume of the Timeless as first single, Tuomas stated that Nuclear Blast is letting Nightwish basically do what they want, ( it's not exactly how he said it, but if you read between the lines it basically means they're so big by now they're going to make good stats and sales anyway, wich is in fact true). Also remember, Nuclear Blast records is also the label for Wintersun, wich are finally going to release Time 2 after more than a decade, while the album was technically finished the whole time, only the mixing wasn't "perfect" in the ears of Jari^^ So I don't think Nuclear Blast records put pressure on Nightwish at all. All of that being said, including that I basically like almost everything Nightwish ever released, no Nightwish album will ever again be on the level of Imaginaerum, my favourite album, and for Yesterwynde I expect no ground breaking stuff, just a solid Symphonic Metal record about some beautiful topics created by my favourite band. Although I am pretty hyped to be honest.
Even as hard-core fan you are saying it's only 'okay' so honestly in your heart you're kind of saying it's not great. And that's okay, you are still allowed not to love it. I've loved them since their first album came out. And I love the song, just not the mix. And that's okay👍🏻
@@lea-anne9133 don't get me wrong, I do like the song, I am not disappointed or anything. But nothing can beat their OG hits, that's all. I personally don't have a big problem with the mix, but I see why people don't like it. I think we can all agree that it's nothing groundbreaking as some of their other stuff. Although the topic and lyrics of the song are awesome and beautiful^^
I agree with Tank though. For a band that has basically created the genre of symphonic metal, a band that has used high class symphonic orchestras for their recordings, this mix is just disappointing. I get that Tuomas’ wanted it to sound this way but to me, personally, this song sound like a wasted opportunity.
@@luisebritta6139Absolutely right. There are other up-and-coming bands in this genre who are putting out superior-sounding singles and albums (Visions of Atlantis and Elvellon). Nightwish could still compete if they just put the quality into the mix that the others have now days.
Only statement i found about the mix was from Kai Hahto (the drummer): ''she is part of the choir. It is not meant to be super loud in the chorus. Just part of all the voices. Some people propably don’t like it that way but it is what it is.''
I like the Song, I don't love it as much as other of their Songs, but it have grown on me. That being said, Nightwish are a Band that is so much better live, than on Studio Albums, and I prefer that to the other way around, of course i would love both to be amazing.
I feel like I'm crazy but I have zero issues with the mix on any system I've listened to it on. I don't think a band like Nightwish makes "mistakes" with mixing and mastering
I don't think it was a mistake. I think it's just a test to see how the fans feel about this kind of mixing. And if the fans aren't happy with it then they will mix it better by the time of the album's release. Or they may just cut it from the album entirely. Like I said in another comment on here, this reminds me how Sagan was released as a single but never made it to onto the Endless Forms Most Beautiful upon the album's initial release.
@gabriel.bardac - It's mixed exactly as Nightwish intended. It just doesn't sound as good as all of their other songs. It's not "unrealistic expectations" when you expect their songs to have the same kind of mixing that all of their other songs have. The mixing on their songs have been the same for decades. So naturally we expect for the mix to sound the same. And it doesn't. I've been hardcore fan of theirs since the Tarja Era and this is the first song of theirs that has disappointed me. That being said, I think this was just a test run of a new mixing style to see how fans would react. It's experimentation. If this song doesn't do well then they will either mix it like they usually do or it will get cut from the album.
To me it's not really that bad tho. People are too perfectionist, don't want to accept something they don't like, i bet this song will grow on them. if only they were willing to listen to it more anyway
I believe Kai has responded to criticisms of the mix by saying that the level on Floor's vocals was a deliberate conceptual choice by the band. I'm not a huge fan of that choice myself, and if thats the case I question the prudence of making this the first song released off the album but I also don't mind the rest of the mix as much as Tank did here.
Yeah I showed Tank that comment in the livestream. But it’s not just Floors vocals. The whole mix needs adjusting. The drums, bass, Emppus guitar. It’s all so drowned. 😭
@@marita2g maybe just a victim of an artistic choice. Guess we’ll see when we get the next song. I didn’t notice anything other than vocals. Didn’t Marko play a big role with the mixing?
Thinking about it... This has been happening a lot in cinema. A common complaint about modern movies is needing to have subtitles on because the music drowns everything out. I'll go a step further and say it washes all the emotion out of it too. And honestly, Nightwish's form of symphonic metal is sort of cinema adjacent. ... I really hope this doesnt become the next "loudness war". Just crank the bass and synths way up to make it feel way more epic than it really is, but everything else gets lost...
Honestly I think it's because Anette had a very sweet fairytale like voice and it inspired Tuomas to write that kind of stuff. Floors voice is more grounded, and earthy. The topics changed to biology and other earthy things.
I heard this song on Spotify and immediately listened to Wish I Had an Angel right after that and the difference is stunning. Nightwish hasn't had that kind of intensity in years!
Let's be real for a sec. Marko was an outsized contributor to the sound of Nightwish. This is plain in the fact that they had to excise a bit from the setlist because nobody can fill those shoes vocally. Jukka has a big impact on arrangement as well. So you've lost two core members of the band that balance against Tuamos and what do you get.. a different direction in arrangement than you're used to seeing because two of the elements that helped shape that are gone. Red + green + grey == grey/brown in the right mix. Let's take the red and grey away.. is green the same as grey/brown? Hell no. The band dynamic has changed, the input and flavor of two new members are there but they're not the same input you would have from Marko and Jukka. This isn't rocket science. The sound is not what we're used to. I'm a new arrival to nightwish. I'm an artist, problem solver, etc.. When you change the dynamic of the room, you change the work product of the room. And that was going to happen the moment you lost Jukka and Marko. There is just no way round it. Can the new people play well? Sure. But they don't have the same experience, taste, input of the two sets of shoes being filled. Tuamos is the indispensible person on the stage. But he can only do what he does because of the input of the others. When that changes, the output changes. And here we are. I came to Nightwish by getting run over by the mac truck of Tarja and Marko's Phantom interpretation. Hands down and without question the greatest version of phantom of the opera ever recorded. Someone called them the finish cast (play on words) of the phantom. I'd never heard of the group before. Had a similar thing happen with Liliac some time ago.. that "how have I never heard of these people before?!" moment. The industry pushes what it wants you to see and is silent about superior acts they aren't making any money off of. Simple as that. Although maybe I'm just weird.. I still listen to NENA and Falco. America isn't the only base of amazing music. To digress, again, I arrived late to find that the people that blew me away are gone. Floor's interpretation of phantom is different. I don't need to compare the two and I love Floor as a front woman. Frankly what she did in arriving with 48 hours notice and then pulling off that performance at Wacken.. tour de force. you'd think she'd been with the band for a decade on the strength of that night. Mindblowingly good. Her version of Ghost love Score is possibly the most reacted to piece of music on the internet. That is whack. But it so merits it. So I arrive and the band is coming apart at the seams. I could leave but I don't want to. I think they're leaving me just as I was introduced and I have no idea what the band will be. It may take another decade for them to find their footing or it may happen in the course of an album. It may not happen at which point tuamos is writing a sequal to poet and the pendulum? I really don't know what to project. I can only say that when you change the inputs, the outputs change with it. Beyond that, I am waiting to see where it goes. And rebuilding a plane falling out of the sky is messy business. So there's gonna be some chop.
In my opinion Nightwish didn't do much good stuff after Once. The second era with Anette was decent too, but way worse than the first, and their third era they are not even metal anymore, they are movie music, and with pretty boring song parts... and they seem to be more sucessful now than ever. Perhaps they just lost all the old fans like me a long long time ago, it seems plausible.
I really agree with you I'm disappointed It's like could have been a really great song but it's seems lacking, like where the big vocalist moment that we had in every song from tarja era to now ? I know that Marko quitted but it's also lacking the raspy counter voice that also gave it's magic to Nightwish Hearing this song feels like I'm waiting for something and it's never appears, Floor buried the whole time by the instru, nothing raspy to give an countervibe, feels like eating white rice without even salt, comestible but not great Hope the whole album isn't like this
I've noticed this with alot of bands lately. Including Lorna Shore (1 of my favourite bands) the background elements begin to completely overpower the actual band members. Lorna shore sounded so much better live because you could hear both the band and the backing tracks so much more clearly, but 1 didn't diminish the other. I think it's honestly a trend thing at this point
Its fucking symphonic Metal. The symphony MAKES this entire genre. Its actually the other bands that turn that shit way down who dont understand what the genre is all about. Yes it is hard to incorporate but if you turn it way down you may as well not have it.
@@metalpuppet5798 Yes I do agree with you to an extent. Yes the symphonic elements play the biggest part of symphonic metal. But in this case, the metal element is being disregarded. And like tank said, it was mixed by the same people who mixed previous albums which sounded amazing.
@@tombrookes2923 the metal element isnt "being disregarded" at all. Its still heavy af. In fact just an orchestra by itself can be heavy af. Mixing guitars in that context is just really fucking hard because they completely bulldoze all of the orchestra if you are not careful. And thats why they are kinda low. They have no choice here
@@metalpuppet5798 I believe they did have a choice. They just made the wrong 1. And yes, it is a difficult 1 to do. And they have aced it with previous albums. But they really botched it with this 1
@@tombrookes2923 having Floor fully in the foreground would have not been the right choice at all. She did an incredible job but she also understands that this genre is about SO much more than the vocals. Its even about much more than just the hook. And the hook is clear as day as well. Sometimes the hook of a song does not have to be the loudest thing screaming at you. And this is a perfect example
Met you at Sweden Rock, was so nervous to yell out to you. Glad I did. So happy gor you to Work for the band I first saw your channel covering, Hypa Hypa. The guys were great and amazing live.
Thank god Tarja and Marko didn't stay in the band, it would be painful to see their voices buried in the generic music of the last decade. And I really like Floor. She was great in After Forever. Now Nightwish has condemned her to singing old songs that many believe still belong to Tarja and Anette. Tuomas could not write any iconic song for Floor. People should finally stop saying what a genius he is, because that's not true for a long time. Maybe it would make him try again
Tuomas once wrote amazing songs, but he’s so full of himself. He always would say his latest album are the best Nightwish album each time. They’ve gone downhill 3 albums in a row. I give up on this band
I loved Floor in After forever and Revamp. She's being criminally underutilized in Nightwish, and this mix just shows it. She is a vocal powerhouse, not something you can drown out. The last couple of albums have just felt like... a Soda that says it's Grape flavoured, but it just tastes like purple. It's hinting at the possibility of being Nightwish, but without having Nightwish's undeniable Soulfulness and poetic depth.
This sound a bit too much Nightwish if you see what I mean .. Yes it is Nightwish, but that's it. feels low effort and her low voice volume does not help that feeling.
Not a fan of that "new but kind of the same as ever nightwish". To be honest, they lost me nearly 20 years ago, with Toumas' ego coming through. It's his little art project and that's all about it. On the other hand: Love seeing Tarja and Markko on their cute best friends tour.
@@TerranigmaQuintet No, don't get me wrong. Anette was ok, Floor is great no doubt, but Tuomas is a pretentious little shit bathing in his own "genius"...
A few things . . . When I first bought "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" there were aspects I didn't like. When I bought "Human :||: Nature " there were aspects I didn't like. When I first listened to "Perfume of the Timeless" there were aspects I didn't like. What I learned was that these songs need multiple listens before the complexity and the sophistication starts to sink in. There's too much going on for the average listener to grasp in one pass. And ya, if you missed what's going on with one listen, you're in the 'average' class. If that bothers you, get over it. I was a classical singer in my younger days and I miss a lot of what is going on in my first pass. For me, that just makes the music all the more interesting. Nightwish does not produce music to match your expectation, nor mine. Floor has said in past interviews that sometimes Tuomas uses her voice like an instrument. Her clarity of tone and team player mentality gives him that option. Think of Floor as the lead singer in a choir of ghosts and the mix makes sense. Floor has a strong personality and if she thought her voice was being misused, it wouldn't stand. Run through it five or ten more times and get back to us.
Honestly, Tank, when you said jokingly that it sounds like they brought Tuomas the final mix and he had them crank his shit up 20%...I think you hit the nail on the head cause that's exactly what it sounds like. I've been saying that I think Tuomas has a narcissism problem for almost 20 years and this is doing nothing but reinforce that. With the vocal mix, I could only make out a single word Floor sung and it just sounds like a muddled mess. It's all symphony and keyboards. From what I can make out of everything else, it sounds like a return to their old heavy style that was completely missing on their last two albums (which is probably why I didn't personally care for those albums), but none of that means anything with this godsawful mix. If this is what to expect from their upcoming album (I hope not, but I've learned over the years not to get my expectations up)...well...I didn't think I could possibly like one of their albums less than Human Nature (which is the one album they've made that I didn't like a single song on), but at least I can say that one was mixed well.
Imagine you are at school concert as a Singer and too shy to really give into the music and sing "loud and proud". This is the vibe I get with this song's vocal mix. If that makes sense.
Not hating or loving the mix, but I'm surprised how little variety a lot of people are prepared to accept. As if there's exactly one way to mix and everything must be that and never anything else. Sheesh, it's one song with a different expression on the mix. You don't have to like it, but maybe just once or a couple of times try to listen to what good there might be. If anything, it seems comical how many people declare a huge mistake has been made. It's not a mistake, it's just different.
No, it's badly mixed. The vocals are drowning in the chorus, there are volume imbalances and the sound is just overall very cluttered. The quality isnt there
@@papasmjordeigbecause Tuomas wanted like it!I saw interview with person who mixed the album and he said we do not understand how much song change in mixing,they mixed this album 7 times until Tuomas said it's OK,why not just accept what it is and wait for another 11 songs???jesse
@@papasmjordeigIt's not. Or if it is, it's a very strange mistake by a very skilled and experienced group of people at the peak of their ability and resources. I don't think that's the case. There was just an interview with the mastering engineer and he confirmed it's exactly as Tuomas wanted and the whole band and production crew agreed. I don't think it's bad, it's different. Nobody likes only good stuff, and all someone likes isn't good. It's like in fashion; a while ago supermodels were the most traditionally beautiful women and the best fashion was the most beautiful clothes. Then it got more interesting; models with different looks, haute couture clothes. Here, I think Tuomas didn't want the Cindy Crawford in Gucci mix. I don't mind.
I admit, i loved NW for many years, but at some point I didnt care anymore so much. So much sounds the same. I feel like over the years it became more and more Tuomas keyboard & arranger orgasm, for himself. The Metal in NW became less and less, and most of all that little remaining part of Metal feels like sounding almost the same with most of thieir songs. These days, bands like EPICA are what gives me much more Symphonic, not to mention that they really have the great & raw Metal in there. NW have become somewhat boring, in my opinion. Dont get me wrong I love Floor sing, she is great. But tbh she doesnt need NW with her voice, she can do it all on her own. I get a feeling NW is more a paycheck for her. As for the mix of this song, that's an understatement. Its terrible. But again, it fits to my view of NW these days. I think its time to let NW die and move on. There are many bands that outlived their good days and are just still around for their name and the money that comes with it.
@@jonathanratliff4780 And there are a lot of great Symphonic Metal bands in Japan, one shouldn’t let language barriers be a problem. they have incredible music there.
Tank, there must be something wrong with your ears. I have watched 30-40 perfume of the timeless reaction videos. None of them have commented that there is something wrong with the mixing. These reactions have been made by e.g. several musicians and composers. Their comments have been nothing but praise. Your comments sounded a little strange in this light? The talk about a bad mixing is complete nonsense (horse shit) Tuomas has created a masterpiece again!
All of this discussion about the mix makes me feel musically inept. Yeah, I understand what is being said, but it just doesn’t bother me the way it does others. I mean, the negativity is so rampant. This is how Tuomas envisioned it, and mixed it. I’m fine with it. The more I hear the song the more I like it.
@@NothingElseMatters777 I was referring to the words "The more I hear the song the more I like it." Tracks that need to grow on you seldom need to grow on you because they are so good. ...regardless the reason why they don't grab you from the get go.
I can't speak to the objective technical quality - I just don't really have an ear for that. But as far as the creative choice of having Floor's voice further in the background for the chorus... I mean, I think it works! I like the idea of having the vocalist being just another instrument in the song, rather than always having to be front and center - and I think it works for this song specifically. I can only speak for myself of course, but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the song at all.
With Troy as Tuomas wingman nothing is good. Since he become a member, Marco lost his part as wingman and Emppu was pushed out, so Troy was given larger place with flute, guitar and bagpipes..No more guitar solon from Emppu. Instead we got folkmusic and now historylection. But I’m feeling so good that Marco and Tarja have so much project and tours together.
I have listened to night wish a little but I never really cared much for them till this song. So for me it's a great song. The first several times I listened to it I thought vocals were too low but as I repeatedly listen to it I don't really notice. Just sounds epic. Wouldn't hurt for vocals to be higher but it's only during piyd parts that they are low in the mix
Yes, the same people mixed it. There is a post on their IG from February 29 with the picture of Tuomas and engineers after the album was mixed and mastered. It says they were the same people they’ve used for 25 years.
@@michaelrie8756 Yeah, no shit. But I'm allowed to be disappointed in one of my favourite bands music. Ps. The word is "listen". "LIsten to another band"
Nightwish dont dissapoint "did you feel the ghost energy song" I listened to this song many times by now, and it is one i like to listen to with my headphones or without, its really a good song, when i can do so to me. Some say Floors voice is low in the mix, and i can agree its hard to get all words she sing, but if you look at it soundwise it sounds amazing!! and after a listen or 2, you know most of lyrics, and its no problem at all, its done fully on purpose for the sound experince of it, and to make her a sound like a part of the ancestors choir.. cant wait for rest of album!! Yesterwynde is the opening track on new album, i belive its only like a intro, its a little over 2 min long, #2 on album then is a almost 10 min song, thats proberly another epic!! #3 is where i think they bring in a heavy track, and this Perfume of the timeless is #5.. so i think its gonna be a good mix of heavy songs, Epics, and maybe a full balled.. Perfume of the timeless, well its almonst a ghost energy song right, telling all these ancestors is perfume around in a timeless world, being around you still, also a message that your existens matters!! i feel tuomas also put in a little message that mankind could do better still, Einstein turn to ape.. The title of the album is a word made by band member Troy Donockley, which Holopainen describes as the feeling of time, history, memory, and being connected to past generation, who have "all had their lives, their ups and downs, and they don't exist anymore, except as atoms scattered all over the universe. And we're going to be in that state pretty soon as well. So that should give you something to think about." Holopainen has described the album as being about humanism, history, and the inspiration thereof, and that outlook of the album is positive and optimistic ] Track listing Yesterwynde: release date 20th September 2024 All tracks are written by Tuomas Holopainen. Yesterwynde track listingNo. Title Length 1. "Yesterwynde" 2:43 2. "An Ocean of Strange Islands" 9:26 3. "The Antikythera Mechanism" 5:55 4. "The Day of..." 4:34 5. "Perfume of the Timeless" 8:11 6. "Sway" 4:23 7. "The Children of 'Ata" 5:37 8. "Something Whispered Follow Me" 6:39 9. "Spider Silk" 6:26 10. "Hiraeth" 6:14 11. "The Weave" 4:53 12. "Lanternlight" 6:06 Total length: 71:07
I've been a Nightwish fan for over 20 years, I have gotten to the point that they're just such a fixture of my life and I love everything they do. I'm not hardcore or weird, I don't consider myself part of the "Nightwish army" (I find most of those people are weirdo Floor stans and I prefer to distance myself from them). I am one of those people who thinks Tuomas is a "once in a generation" genius composer. I saw them live for the first time back in 2000, in a venue of 900 people. They are at a point now where they can just do whatever the fuck they want, it's all good. They make the music they want to make (well, Tuomas wants to make), not what they think fans might want to hear. And that's good for them right? A lot of musicians wish they had that luxury. Chris Bowes from Alestorm said on Reddit recently that he tried a different sound on one of their recent albums, but fans just want "old school Alestorm", so he felt forced to go back to that saying "I have bills to pay so I hate my life now". I think it is awesome for Nightwish that they don't have those kinds of concerns, good for them. edited to add: the song grows on you btw. It's an acquired taste, so to speak.
There has not been a single NW album or even song that I did not have to play several times to get into. Which, to my ears, is a sign of greatness. Claiming to be able to pass judgement on a first listen/watchalong with your fans is incredibly pretentious. As for the mix: first of all it doesn't sound as bad as you describe it. Talk about hyperbole. I get it, you need clicks like all YT experts. Secondly: if you think UA-cam sounds anywhere near the full product, I think you are mistaken. But don't bite the hand that feeds you. Again, I get it. Third: you are talking about a band that has never set a foot wrong after they stopped Tuomas singing on the albums ^^ Let's at least give them enough credit and postpone final judgement until the album comes out.
I think it’s a test . Tuomas is intrigued by the people who listen to his creations . He puts out this Sample of a new Album months before the Official Release to see if people will blindly love it just because it’s Nightwish or will the real fans give him the feedback he expects . Are we all awake and paying attention or just blindly standing in line . This story isn’t over just yet . 😊
Well I think his little test with this song is going to come back on him three fold. Surely they didn't listen to it and say yeah the mix is great. Because it really isnt. You can't use a main vocalist to sing your songs, then place that voice in the background. May as well not use a vocalist at all.🤷🏻♀️
When I first heard this my immediate thoughts were "This is going to be Tuomas's solo 'concept album' featuring Nightwish members as guest musicians". The last 27 years were amazing, epic, incredible...but the next few years?
In that kind of music the orchestration just IS the main element. That has nothing to do with ego or any of that. Its just what symphonic Metal is like. Tuomas is absolutely right if he wants those elements right in the front. I am sick of so called "symphonic Metal" bands completely burying their symphonic elements in the mix. THAT is a disservice to this beautiful genre of music. As a guitarist etc in such a band you just need to expect to be there to provide a bed and nothing more. And as for the vocals they all made the concious decision to have Floor lower in the mix because of the story of the song. Shes part of the "choir of ancestors" and not standing above them. You can still hear and understand her
i see an interview with the guy who are mixt the album ,Mika and he said all that are intentional. They want to the all instruments make 1 and the voice be part of the songs. Its the moove of the band. i think you over exagerated
Great review as always. I agree on the mixing and unnecessary chaos. It’s like “what is the goal here?”. It doesnt sound good. And if you listen close it’s very similar to amaranth.
My main issue with this is simply the fact that it sounds so Nightwish. I'm getting bored of the same formula over and over again. And the riffs aren't exciting on this one. Hell, it's supposed to be a metal song...
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Tank, I think I may have an explanation and if I'm correct you may hear a different version released. That mix isn't just chaotic and lopsided. That distortion is a dead giveaway; Whoever the fool was that mastered that record just dumped the dynamic compression on it until it brought everything to its loudest. Which by the way, you hear a lot these days.
Man if that is the case I hope they re master it and re release the video with remastered audio.
Sounds like someone had that mix nice and layered and subtle and the compressor came on and everything got pulled out of context.
Metallica did it on that record everybody bitched about the mix of and people said it sounded distorted. That mastering job was too "loud". And that's what I'm hearing here.
To paraphrase the new sing from Marco & Tarja - NW should have " Left this on Mars"
I like your work in general, but here, I think you've rather missed the point of this work.
I think I heard that they didn't work with Pip Williams with orchestration on this. Might be one cause....
I was disappointed as well that the vocals were hard to hear. I like this other mix way better. What do you think Tank?
ua-cam.com/video/QO3IdXMWPEk/v-deo.html
I appreciate reactors who are REAL. If you like something, say you like it. If you don’t, say you don’t. I’m so tired of reactors trying to lie to fan bases to not upset anyone. Good job Tank.
It's literally a bait to bring him metrics
Eh, i dont think that ever works. The only reason people watch reactions is because they want the experience of showing their friend something they really like, but without the risk of their friend potentially not liking it. If you do react content you kinda HAVE to be positive
yeah, 95% of reactors are fake as fuck. I get it though, they get money by acting like they give a shit about some band or movie or tv show. Lol, and people pay money to watch the awful fakeness. There are a few good reactors out there that give 100% honest reactions. Not everything has to be 100% positive. Real life doesn't work like that. In real life not everyone will enjoy the same stuff. That's called life.
I am with you!!!
Also fact is, Tank was disappointed to Nightwish earlier, cause he didnt get any money for their reactions.
Also fact is, he is Electric cowboy fanboy cause he gets money from them and tours with them. Of course he likes them. And he said he likes Nightwish also. This mixing just wasnt his taste and thats ok.
But if you think money doesnt matter, when you make these, get the fuck out here 😂
Everybody has to make living.
Love when reactors are genuine and honest. They don’t just say they like this and how awesome it is to not offend someone, and then a couple months down the road offhandedly remark of how it wasn’t my favorite and it was just ok…
A lot of ppl dont seem to realize (or care) that half of the music channels on this website are effectively doing access journalism. If they do a lot of interviews you're probably not gonna hear them criticize anything very much. Some of them will do clickbait stuff to feed on controversies but then present it like "People are saying this, I'm not saying it, I disagree with it, actually (controversial band/figure) is very cool & good"
The diver isn't CGI if anyone thought that. His name is Guillaume Néry (some images might be his wife Julie Gautier) and the images is from his film "One breath around the world"
Therw's two other free divers also.
ua-cam.com/video/L4qM1IEhtNQ/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
It was filmed by his wife
@@daveblair9766 4 free divers
@@daveblair9766 Might be 5.
The feet look like a woman's feet.
Tbh. out of context Nik Nocturnal comment "I want to watch this without sound" unintentionally sums it up the best
He also forgot about 15 years ago that he actually has an incredible guitar player, but insists on using him as a background instrument.
Have you listened to Tribal? Also he the best singer, he had Marko (better than most lead singers), he has an amazing drummer and the London Philharmonic. At one point a man has to choose...
The worst part is you can hear Floor putting so much pure power into such a quiet vocal track
If I were Floor, I would be disappointed. Maybe she expressed hers, and we all know how democratic Nightwish is.
Read the lyrics, it said We are not I am
@@nightringer9815 "The song sounds awful" - "But it said we are, not I am." - "...ok..."
And just a few weeks after giving birth.
great, but here it has a very obvious reason...in the chorus Floor is ONE of the TIMELESS....it is fully intentional and with a good reason.
Thanks for the opinion, Tank! I don't feel lonely now that someone has translated my thoughts into the right words.
And yes, I repeat here that if something is done for a reason, it doesn't mean that it is good.
Well consider the song name. What does perfume do? Just as all the DEI noise we are evaporating getting weaker. Between all the kids getting transgender assignment surgeries crime wars we are erasing our existance. Let's not forget about abortions. Just as the political noise keeps drowning us out. So the music drowns Floors voice. Is this the point of the song? One must ask the question. You know Nightwish is strong on the story telling and has a message.
its good but you don't like it!
@@michaelbelshaysr4525 LOL calm down
@zrevival3818 just explaining why they put her voice behind the noise.
@@hermavankeulen9728 It's good, but it could be much better
I totally understand you feeling this way. I’m a huge Nightwish fan and have been since the early 2000’s. Their music has always meant so much to me and shaped how I listen to music growing up.
I so want to love this song because all the elements are there but I just can’t. The mix throws me off so much. I gave it multiple tries and I have accepted it for what it is. That way I can pick apart the pieces I like but I’m not in love. It hasn’t made my playlist. Normally when a Nightwish song comes out I play it to death on repeat but I haven’t with this one. I was excited for the new album and now I’m nervous.
I can respect that this was Tuomas choice and he wanted to do something with this and he has this right. But I just can’t connect and I’m glad it’s not just me that is disappointed.
i feel you on many Levels. You are surely not Alone.
Guess we'll have to wait for the live version!
That could be a long wait, so I'm not waiting @@GameTalesHQ
Same here. Nightwish is my all time favourite band, and this song is just... kind of disappointing. I was really sad about that for a few days, but in the end it is what it is... I can only hope the rest of the album will be better..
I felt like this about the last album too. The band has gone off on a tangent and I don't think I want to follow. It always seems to happen eventually, but I thought after 20+ years that Nightwish were immune....
It doesn't really feel like a nightwish song with an orchestra, it feels like an orchestra featuring nightwish
Exactly. And maybe that´s Tuomas´s point.
@@zvolencan1 might sound better live
@@johnsmith-cw3wo Yes, please! 🙏
The Drummer said that the choices made with the mix were intentional, and they know people aren't going to like it, and they're fine with it.
Kai also said "it is, what it is" - so HE seems not to be fine with it. And that makes one wonder who else in the band might be disappoited with how Tuomas uses their "instruments"...
Let's hope the rest of the album doesn't sound like this though
well, good for them, but they won't attract people to spend money on it tbh.
Such a lazy-ass excuse...
@@methanbreather Exactly.Not many people also will like song with this mix.So what is the reason to released it if not for people to listening? Also I don't think music label agree to realese this whole album like this as a final product.
This song is a great example why live Nightwish is so much better than recorded Nightwish. At least in my humble opinion.
I find that to be true with most symphonic metal people unless it's a song that was meant to have a heavy choral part like Ghost Love Score. Then I'm a bit torn because I love the choir on the studio, but it does get lost live unless your in a small venue. That's kind of why I like Scardust. Noa brings the choir with her. It's not a big one, but it's enough.
@@SymphonicEllen Blind Guardian is amazing in that way too because 1. the crowd becomes the needed choir and 2. every band member except the drummer does back up vocals. There was of course this Demons and Wizards show at Wacken where they did have a choir but that is rare. But I truly adore the BG approach of crowd as choir for their more complicated songs.
I like this song and yes, can't wait to see and hear it live.
It took a couple of listening before I got really into it.
@@alexdoorn234 Nice, I'm not as familiar with Blind Guardian but sounds like my kind of concert. Was in choir my last 3 years of college 😁
In that case I can't wait to hear this fantastic piece of music live.
A lot of people are saying the vocals are deliberately low in the mix but I honestly think hearing the vocal tracks more clearly would make it better. It being a deliberate choice doesn't free the song from criticism. Hopefully we get to hear Floor a bit louder on other songs.
Exactly. Not everything bad is a mistake
Also if you have vocalist like Floor you want her to be heard loud and clear. There is no musical reason to hide such a singer in the mix
This is the single. Doesn't encourage me much if this sh*tfest of a mix is the lead single.
Read the lyrics of the chorus. It said We, not I. That's why Floor's vocal at the same volume as the choir. She became one of many.
@@nightringer9815 , and that's part of the problem. What a sh*t artistic choice. One sh*tty artistic choice among many on this song.
“Buh…buh…but the mix is intentional!!!”
(Rant Incoming)-
I’m really getting fed up of the Nightwish fanbase constantly deluding themselves into thinking that Tuomas can do no wrong.
The guy’s a musical genius don’t get me wrong (Dark Passion Play is one of my top 10 favourite albums by any band ever), but even he is capable of making dumb artistic choices. This mix is a prime example.
Not to mention that the guy’s ego has been getting bigger and bigger for years at this point. He completely went up his own ass on the Human Nature album. As for this song? While it is an improvement on most of what was on the last album, it still has the same air of pretentiousness that has been steadily building in Nightwish’s music ever since Tuomas got a boner for evolution (and Troy) on Endless Forms Most Beautiful.
Funnily enough, Endless Forms is also the point when their albums’ mixes started to get worse (especially in terms of the vocals). FFS they have an absolute powerhouse of a singer in Floor and they’ve been misusing her ever since she came into the band.
Pop on either of the Nightwish albums she’s been featured on and then go spin After Forever’s self titled record from 07. It’s night and day with how amazing she sounds on that album compared to how buried in the mix she is on her Nightwish studio recordings.
Rant Concluded. #AndJusticeForFloor
Br00tal!😱 And trve.👍
I'm still not sure why Floor agreed to be part of this bullshido. He must be paying her a ton of money.
Not only After Forever, but NW also... Once or DPP sounded much better.
NW did it with Tarja also. The mix of the songs was often odd in The older albums too. Live Tarja and live Floor have usually sounded much better than on albums.
I frigging love Human Nature. I like Nightwish but was not a huge fan until that album. It's so powerful and the composition is a cut above all their past work. I cried the first time I listened to it through. So, to each their own I guess.
@kmacgregor6361 Fair enough I guess I mean it’s all subject to taste at the end of the day. There are highlights on it (Noise, Pan, How’s the Heart), but for me it just lacks the punch of the previous albums both in the production as well as the performances.
That 2nd disc is almost entirely worthless imo. It’s kinda pretty at points but I paid for a Nightwish album. I didn’t pay to hear Tuomas’s film score audition 💁♂️
“Hey let’s minimize the entire reason that people listen to our band in the final mix”
Bold choice Cotton
I’ve never heard this band before and I’ll be fine if I don’t ever again. Calling it mid would be generous
If you only listen to a Symphonic metal band for vocals then you should find something else to listen to.
The fact Tank was so disappointed indicates that most of their music is NOT lik3 this (at least in mix). He even stated as such. I can confirm this. Its worth giving them a chance, I reckon. Their music is so varied , you are likely to find stuff you like.
I do like this song and I'm not as bothered by the mix as Tank, but I do agree it should be mixed so the component parts were clearer. (Floor's singing in particular but there is a kind of fuzzy distortion over everything, here.)
Who listens to NW just for Floor Jansen? Especially when peak NW was Oceanborn - DPP.
@@MATCHLESS789 Agreed. But Nightwish's peak was Once -> EMFB
It sounds like a movie mix that needs to be played in 5.1 with the centre speaker cranked to get the vocals.
It could be actually. But usually in these cases they should do separate mixes for 2.0 and surround for this same reason.
Melody: great
Singing: great
Drums: great
If only we could hear it.
**If only**, we could hear the guitars clearly. IF ONLY!
How dare you. They gave us an great Bridge , nearly 25 Seconds ! how are you not satisfied and dont bow to the Superiority of Tuomas Message! You dont know Art, you are no Fan, you are numb...did i forget something?:)
Saddest Thing: it will stay this Way and it wont get better , thats what i fear...so....*starting Wemlbey 2k15 Live*
@@alexandersteinmetz6857 , a great bridge? The bridge is a muddy mess. It doesn't even sound good. Are you high?!
@@SamBrockmann nope. terrible sober all the Way. Only sarcastic to the Bone;)
@@alexandersteinmetz6857 , I am glad to hear it, sir. I admit, with all the wild zealotry from much of the NW fanbase, I always feel the need to check. Have a high five. ✋️
The song could be so good, but the mix sucks. Nightwish says the mix is intentional, which disappoints me even more. Tuomas tries too hard to show off his art and forgets that he has amazing musicians and a talented singer.
Word
The worst thing a composer can do is forget that performance is what brings the song to life. He needs to crawl down out of his own ass and start caring about the music again.
Oh man the hardcore nightwish people are going to HATE tank after this one 😂
Nah.. what he says is true unfortunately😢
The hardcore Nightwish people hated me already after the video from a couple years ago. No worries. Haha
I am a hardcore fan and I agree with Tank
No they are not.
Nah I agree I still say tarja.is better lmao if that makes u feel better 😂
I think I may have a(n) hypothesis about why the song's mix is what it is. When I went to listen to this single, I noticed that it had the Dolby Atmos logo on it, which indicates that the song was likely mixed with spatial audio in mind. I have a feeling that Nightwish and Apple agreed to do something special with the album on Apple Music; the album image itself has animations,
So, I think the song was mixed for spatial audio, and I have a feeling that the producer did a quick stereo conversion so that it could be played elsewhere. I played the song with spatial audio, and I think it does overall sound better than the mix we got here. Floor's vocals were still resigned to be only slightly louder than the choir that appears in the second act.
I really hope that Nightwish will release this album with both a stereo and spatial audio version.
That, actually makes sense. I'm only watching this now, and has no idea there was an issue. I'd heard the song the day it was released on my (overly expensive) Samsung buds. So that might explain why I never noticed it was mixed weird
Looks like its Epica's time to take the crown of best symphonic metal band for awhile.
For those who are candid and not drinking the Nightwish Kool-Aid Epica and I would add nearly so Therion have been the best symphonic true metal bands for a long time my friend
Nightwish fans will feel what i felt when Roy Khan left Kamelot and it went downhill.
@@jonathanratliff4780 Therion were splendid back in the day
Epica isn't very good. Wasn't a fan of their albums. But hey good on you if you like them. I just don't get it.
I think they already took that loooooooooooong time ago.
I find it crazy that both positive and negative comments are like 90% about the volume of Floor's voice. I personally don't have a problem with her voice being in the background for the song. But I don't enjoy the song overall because either half of the mix is too quiet and I barely hear it or the other half is so loud and aggressive that I get a headache. If I am not supposed to hear the drums in some parts, why are they even playing?
And this is a problem. All musicians / singers in the band are too talented to be buried in the mix. Tuomas has his own vision for this song, but still, mix needs to be better to achieve this "vision." Thank you for your comment.
It also just feels like it is going nowhere
I felt like this about the last album too. The band has gone off on a tangent and I don't think I want to follow. It always seems to happen eventually, but I thought after 20+ years that Nightwish were immune....
Sorry, I'm at 11:30 in but I can't even listen to the rest of this song. I'm too bored.
sorry, but this just sounds like someone chewed up couple Nightwish albums and barfed them back out... This is just crap... little to no clarity in the musical mix... the song *sounds* like it could be really cool if it were remixed to the previous standards we have seen from Nightwish... This is just really sad...
All three NW singers are great and it's hard to say if Floor or Tarja is better. But I think Tarja really had something that inspired Tuomas to write music. After all, even Dark Passion Play is an album mainly inspired by her. Today, the band is apparently mainly a company, and Tuomas sees the people in it only as his instruments. Anette changed the sound of the band and they certainly benefited from it. Floor is great, but it's sad that people mainly associate her with a 10+ year old performance for Ghost Love Score, a 20 year old song that wasn't even written for her voice.
The direction of Nightwish is completely opposite to the direction of Epica. Epica cut back on the orchestra and added guitar and heavy sound. Today, Tuomas buried everything with the orchestra, thinking he was the second Hans Zimmer. But ok. Nightwish is his, he can do what he wants with it and probably already does.
It was a different era tho. They were much younger and at the beginning with all the fresh ideas. After 20 years you maybe run out of fresh ideas maybe.
I get what you are saying, but Floor is simply the better singer. Tarja was singing at a time when having a classical singer was just becoming a thing. They were at the front of the game, but even back then Floor was an exceptional singer. She's the better classical vocalist (perhaps because Tarja has a deeper voice type that takes more time to develop) and remains the more flexible vocalist. I feel like these new albums are all songs that Tarja would have suited Anette better. They are just not using Floor's instrument properly. Ironically, it's the Tarja era compositions that show off what she can do.
I haven’t given a crap about Nightwish since the album “Once.” The garbage movie soundtrack vibe lost me. They should’ve just kept the epic power metal vibe and fought to keep Tarja. Which is sad, because I love Floor.
I dont even mind Annette’s albums! But since 2015, they just took a artistic direction I don’t like :(
I'm still hoping that the mix that's being pressed on CDs is clean as a whistle and they're just fuckin' with us with this clip.
Oh I hope so🙏🏻 In my gut I think this is why I haven't pre-ordered the album yet
I'm also hoping that. The album is still 4 months off, probably 2 until they start manufacturing, So maybe, just maybe, they are still working on the mix. Also hoping the LP mix may be different and vinyl has different requirements.
@@thechurn4766No vinyl in the world has saved a bad mix, unfortunately! The mastering is different only, but as I said - even the best mastering can’t save the sound from a bad mix… And let’s not forget that the vinyl also has it’s own disadvantages at the end of the day
I hope too, but don't believe a lot / When Aria's first single of the upcoming 13th album dropped back in 2018 we in Russia thought the same way/ It turned out the album is a horrible disaster with the worst sound ever heard in my entire life. A sad thing for a former fan of a great heavy metal band
@iliangeorgiev1060 getting really tired of these muddy, overly compressed mixes. Producers have to bring back subtle dynamics to these recordings. The loudness wars ( I know they are somewhat over), and mixing for earbuds needs to stop. People that listen primarily to overly compressed MP3's on headphones are not audiophiles, and do not care about the mixing. So mix it for those of us who do care.
I feel like I'm missing something, because I think the song sounds fine. It didn't grab me as quickly as other Nightwish songs, but it has grown on me.
whew, I'm glad you and Chase said something, I thought it was just me, I couldn't figure out why I felt so sad YET everyone was "raving" about this. Don't get me wrong I love, love Nightwish and listen to them every day, but to be honest I was kinda hoping they'd veer a little toward my favorite "Master Passion Greed" but this one, I don't know. Glad you're honest in your assesssments.
Hes not honest hes jusf after attention, vocals are 10/10
I don't get all the issues people are having with the mix. I've listened to this song dozens of times in the car, on my phone with Beats headphones, and on my iPad with the iPad speakers and it sounds great. I can hear the drums just fine, and Floor's voice is easily heard throughout the entire song...for me. I've even listened to it with the sole purpose of trying to identify what people are complaining about and I just don't get it. I can hear the harmonies during the chorus with Floor riding over them, although I can't tell if they're 3- or 5-part harmonies. Admittedly, the song is heavy with the orchestra, so that might be what's distracting people from hearing Floor.
Everyone hears it, it's just muffled, extremely muffled, it's not putting vocals and instrumental (band instruments) in evidence, and it just sounds like there's a competition between the styles instead of a mesh, and the metal is loosing, because it's half a dozen against almost a hundred instruments, the actual members of the band are not in evidence at all, there's a reason a singer is a front man or front woman, people tend enjoy the actual vocals in evidence, the drumming the guitars, etc, and the attempt to use symphonic to generate an epic feel just falls flat, it's a very bad mixing, really very bad.
They are clearly trying something new, but it sucks for most, but some people might enjoy, there's nothing wrong about that, but most people won't, at all.
You may need to go get your ears examined then . . .
@@pedrothevenardIf it was mixed intentionally, it's not a bad mix.
@@JPDR120 A shitty mix it's a shitty mix no matter how intentional it is, the song has potential, but it sucks right now, probably gonna sound way better live.
It's always fascinated me that Toumas can write stuff like Poet and the Pendulum and Ghost Love Score, but also put out some of the most basic, boring, and forgettable things possible.
This is everything but boring or basic. Just because it has a simple melodic structure doesnt make it boring or basic. If you want to write a catchy song, which is the number one priority, simpler is almost always better
@@metalpuppet5798 We'll agree to disagree. There is nothing interesting or unique here. There are many symphonic metal bands that could have written this song.
Same can't be said for something like Ghost Love Score.
What the hell is going on with the music industry, the bands? I mean, they've become complacent and entitled and boring.
Is it the marketing team that pushes pop like soft music to become more recognizable and enjoyable to the crowd? Is it the people who think they can put out anything because people will listen and love them no matter what? Is it just the god complex given by fame? Is it the censorship of the label who pushes for softer music to sell more?
I OPHE it's not AI.
@@mushroommagic1697 softer music isnt generally worse. But yes the labels have a lot of power. And this also is everything but soft OR boring
@@mushroommagic1697 I'd say it's a lack of artistic standard within the creator.
Like, how can Wish I Had An Angel and Ghost Love Score be on the same album? Makes no sense.
Or Bye Bye Beautiful coming right after Poet And The Pendulum. Just how.
I am a huge Nightwish fan and good lord I’ve never been so disappointed by a release. This song had so much potential but the mix 😩
You said everything I’ve been feeling since this released.
First truly honest music reaction I've ever seen. I love Nightwish but this sounds like rejects from their Greatest Show On Earth recording.
I am a NW fan for 22-23 years now and I feel 100% just like you. At this point I feel like, NW cannot bring anything new to the table and this song in particular is a disappointment for me too. I sincerely hope, the other songs will be better.
7:44, Floor is buried in the mix. Horrible. You have, arguably the best singer on the planet in your band and the last two albums have not showcased her. Troy sang half of the last album, and now Floor sounds like she's humming along in the background. It literally sounds like a demo that she laid down melody tracks before she recorded the actual vocal. Sometimes egos get in the way of success.
I have every Nightwish Album and based on this song I am not pre-ordering this album I am now in a wait and see mode because damn they messed up on the technical side of things they took Great Instrumentals and Great Vocals and then mixed them together with a cement mixer and all of the grace and precision that entails.
I had the same thoughts when i first listened to it. But after i have listen to it for a couple of times it has grown on me
It has grown on me too... like a rash.🤢
I tried to like it, but I can't listen to it. I really hope the overall mix is not that terrible.
@@lmbergamini well we have different opinions and thats okay
@@lmbergamini great, but here it has a very obvious reason...in the chorus Floor is ONE of the TIMELESS....it is fully intentional and with a good reason.
Cannot recall GLS live had to grow on me, tbh.
It def grew on me after several listens at this point
I love when the very few and far between big name commentators I actually like criticize stuff. Not because I like hearing negative reviews. But because I know they're authentic and don't just pretend to like everything. You ain't gonna see Nik making anything like this. I usually am more inclined to watch smaller time reactors cuz I know they'll be more real cuz they're still doing it for themselves, not for the monetization and fanbase they cultivated. For the big dawgs to be real, you don't see that too much on UA-cam. I always knew Tank was different from the rest of the pack. I hate pandering.
It could be that the wrong recording was given to someone or some other mistake/miscommunication happened along the way. To quote Einstein, "there are two things I know to be infinite; the universe and humanity's potential to screw up, although I'm not 100% sure about the first."
The quote says”the are two things that are infinite: the universe and human stupidity …. etc”
Yeah, they forgot. Its all in your head, get help.
I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like this as much as I wanted to. Since I'm not a musician or sound guy thanks for pointing out the mix. Now I understand.
Two minutes in and... This is SO boring. Get on with it. No, not getting any better.
OK, that was it. It's like previous album. Straight from Disney movie soundtrack. Nowadays Tuomas does film scores with metal vibes and not the other way round. Even the great vocals of Floor is buried under hundreds of symphonic tracks. Bye bye beautiful Nigthwish. It was nice to know you 1996 to 2015 (EFMB being last interesting/good album). Luckily world is full of good metal.
People has the right of not liking things...
BTW, I think many things said in this video are not well supported:
1. The level of composition in this doesn't make me think that “they don't care” about. You said: “I like the song itself”, and it is because it is well composed.
2. I am able to hear every element they mixed in the track, from the Floor voice, to the choir, even all the piano arragements... People were able to make covers of these... It is because everything is audible. It work this way: you can't expect to hear all the elements at the first time. There are so many instruments palying at the same time, that you have to discover each one in more listenings.
3. The concept of the song explains many of the things you are listening. For example, the chours is designed to express the idea of many people, because they are saying “we are the heirs... We are because of a million loves...” They are talking about so much people involved that it needs to sound like that, like a choir, not just one voice.
4. The bridge, which you said it sound like “duck sh*t”. It is supposed to sound dirty, strange, disonant... It has to be again with the concept of the piece, it is the complexity of the human being, all the goods and bad episodes of our history. You actually can see it in the video when they push you with a bunch of inconex images.
You can't pretent to understand this in the first listening. I just see an intention to dislike for the controversy.
I have heard many opinions in the last 2 weeks, both from some reactors and from some of the fans, that mixing or mastering would not be good. But what matters most to me are the opinions of the band members and those from Finvox (I just saw a revealing interview in this regard, with Mika Jussila from Finvox, the one who handled the mastering of all Nightwish albums) - it seems obvious to me that this was the intention of the band members, because I understand that they gave their feedback permanently in this process.
For me, the discussion on this topic is collateral. So I enjoy this creative manifestation of the band I love. Besides, I am convinced that the mixing will be completely different in their future live performances, years from now.
Just because the band did this intentionally doesn't make it good. 😒
Well, does He say WHICH Bandmembers? I hang on to your Postive Vibes for the Future.
@@SamBrockmann A line from "Music" that seemed significant to me: "There, I'll greet the greedy crowd / But will never, never ever sing to them"
I think this verse perfectly describes this situation, unfortunately. Unlike you, I don't have the absurd pretension to tell Tuomas what/how to do.
"I am convinced that the mixing will be completely different in their future live performances." That may be true, but people listen to album versions primarily, you don´t go to concerts every day.
@@gabriel.bardac 👏👏👏👏
Why I’d never make it in the music industry: I couldn’t hear what Tank was talking about.
Just means you can’t mix/master/engineer. And I’m in the same boat. I can hear what Tank is talking about, but mainly cause it was pointed out to me. Give me a random track, and I can tell you I think it sounds wrong, but idk why or how to fix it.
I guess I just took it as what they wanted to put out. I enjoyed it when I listened to it
I have sometimes experienced how there have been two different mixes, one for the music video and one for the album version and, for their own sake, I hope that's the case.
EDIT: In case you were wondering, I hadn't hit 13:05 yet when I wrote this 👈
Its great as is and they have collectively decided to do it this way. First of all shes intentionally part of the "choir of ancestors" and thats why she doesnt stand out as much. Which is a beautiful creative thought imo. Secondly this is symphonic Metal. The symphony plays a main role in it. Mixing it is already extremely difficult and the human voice interferes massively with orchestral instruments. So do guitars. If you want to hear the orchestra you will have to turn down that other stuff a little. No EQ is going to help here really. Its just going to make it sound thin a f. You can still hear and understand her. Most other symphonic Metal bands just drown out the orchestra in the mix just to have themselves be up front. Which is completely pointless. At that point you may as well not have the orchestra
This song is definitely a GROWER not a SHOWER, if you get my drift
It is neither... sadly...
It figures that someone like you would make a comment like this...
Hardcore Nightwish fan here. Hope you will survive the Nightwish army after this one😆 But seriously, thank you for being honest with your opinion and reaction! I have to say, that I am very happy that their new song is more heavy again. Floor's vocals are a bit drowned by the orchestration, but I think it's on purpose in connection with the lyrics and meaning of the song. The part where the "chaotic" guitar part drops in makes more sense in connection with the music video, it's important to have this visuals. I listened to the song a lot since it released and I honestly think it's okay, I like it, but I can understand some of the criticism regarding the mixing.
However, some people here making up points about AI or whatever or that they throw out music just to throw out music... Nightwish has been working on the album for the past three years, Tuomas had a clear picture in mind of what's it gonna be. For some of that time they didn't even had an official label because the contract with Nuclear blast ended. They had renewed their contract with them just recently, so there was no presure from Nuclear Blast during the album production. Also in an interview regarding the choosing of Perfume of the Timeless as first single, Tuomas stated that Nuclear Blast is letting Nightwish basically do what they want, ( it's not exactly how he said it, but if you read between the lines it basically means they're so big by now they're going to make good stats and sales anyway, wich is in fact true). Also remember, Nuclear Blast records is also the label for Wintersun, wich are finally going to release Time 2 after more than a decade, while the album was technically finished the whole time, only the mixing wasn't "perfect" in the ears of Jari^^ So I don't think Nuclear Blast records put pressure on Nightwish at all.
All of that being said, including that I basically like almost everything Nightwish ever released, no Nightwish album will ever again be on the level of Imaginaerum, my favourite album, and for Yesterwynde I expect no ground breaking stuff, just a solid Symphonic Metal record about some beautiful topics created by my favourite band. Although I am pretty hyped to be honest.
Even as hard-core fan you are saying it's only 'okay' so honestly in your heart you're kind of saying it's not great.
And that's okay, you are still allowed not to love it. I've loved them since their first album came out. And I love the song, just not the mix. And that's okay👍🏻
@@lea-anne9133 don't get me wrong, I do like the song, I am not disappointed or anything. But nothing can beat their OG hits, that's all. I personally don't have a big problem with the mix, but I see why people don't like it. I think we can all agree that it's nothing groundbreaking as some of their other stuff. Although the topic and lyrics of the song are awesome and beautiful^^
I agree with Tank though. For a band that has basically created the genre of symphonic metal, a band that has used high class symphonic orchestras for their recordings, this mix is just disappointing. I get that Tuomas’ wanted it to sound this way but to me, personally, this song sound like a wasted opportunity.
@@luisebritta6139Absolutely right. There are other up-and-coming bands in this genre who are putting out superior-sounding singles and albums (Visions of Atlantis and Elvellon). Nightwish could still compete if they just put the quality into the mix that the others have now days.
@@luisebritta6139 lol Nightwish didn't create symphonic metal, they just copied it.
Only statement i found about the mix was from Kai Hahto (the drummer):
''she is part of the choir. It is not meant to be super loud in the chorus. Just part of all the voices. Some people propably don’t like it that way but it is what it is.''
I like the Song, I don't love it as much as other of their Songs, but it have grown on me. That being said, Nightwish are a Band that is so much better live, than on Studio Albums, and I prefer that to the other way around, of course i would love both to be amazing.
I feel like I'm crazy but I have zero issues with the mix on any system I've listened to it on. I don't think a band like Nightwish makes "mistakes" with mixing and mastering
Oh they do last album for me just felt dull, not exciting
I don't think it was a mistake. I think it's just a test to see how the fans feel about this kind of mixing. And if the fans aren't happy with it then they will mix it better by the time of the album's release. Or they may just cut it from the album entirely.
Like I said in another comment on here, this reminds me how Sagan was released as a single but never made it to onto the Endless Forms Most Beautiful upon the album's initial release.
Zero issues here too with the mix. Those who started with unrealistic expectations are dissatisfied.
@gabriel.bardac - It's mixed exactly as Nightwish intended. It just doesn't sound as good as all of their other songs. It's not "unrealistic expectations" when you expect their songs to have the same kind of mixing that all of their other songs have.
The mixing on their songs have been the same for decades. So naturally we expect for the mix to sound the same. And it doesn't. I've been hardcore fan of theirs since the Tarja Era and this is the first song of theirs that has disappointed me.
That being said, I think this was just a test run of a new mixing style to see how fans would react. It's experimentation. If this song doesn't do well then they will either mix it like they usually do or it will get cut from the album.
To me it's not really that bad tho. People are too perfectionist, don't want to accept something they don't like, i bet this song will grow on them. if only they were willing to listen to it more anyway
I believe Kai has responded to criticisms of the mix by saying that the level on Floor's vocals was a deliberate conceptual choice by the band. I'm not a huge fan of that choice myself, and if thats the case I question the prudence of making this the first song released off the album but I also don't mind the rest of the mix as much as Tank did here.
Feel exactly the same way. The song has more potential in it. But I still love it. There should be more singles before the release in September.
@@trekkerj Yes, two more singles before the album comes out.
Yeah I showed Tank that comment in the livestream. But it’s not just Floors vocals. The whole mix needs adjusting. The drums, bass, Emppus guitar. It’s all so drowned. 😭
@marita2g I actually prefer the guitars on this track than how they were on HN. Always thought they were a little thin on that whole album.
@@marita2g maybe just a victim of an artistic choice. Guess we’ll see when we get the next song. I didn’t notice anything other than vocals. Didn’t Marko play a big role with the mixing?
From what Kai said, they wanted her to be a part of the chorus who's singing with her. This was intentional.
You don't have a front woman, and on top of that one of the best vocalists of our present generation for that matter, to make her part of the choir.
@@Greyhound53200 Unless... something's going on with Floor's voice... ageing, pregnancy, bad cold or covid - it could be anything...
That doesn't make it acceptable. "OH, THEY INTENDED FLOOR TO SOUND LIKE SH*T" doesn't justify it.
Read the lyrics, it said We are not I am
@@nightringer9815
Exactly! 👏
Nightwish has been tanking in quality since endless forms most beautiful in my opinion. Everything feels like Tuomas's pet project now.
tbf Nightwish IS his baby
Thinking about it... This has been happening a lot in cinema. A common complaint about modern movies is needing to have subtitles on because the music drowns everything out. I'll go a step further and say it washes all the emotion out of it too.
And honestly, Nightwish's form of symphonic metal is sort of cinema adjacent.
... I really hope this doesnt become the next "loudness war". Just crank the bass and synths way up to make it feel way more epic than it really is, but everything else gets lost...
I dont know if its only me but NOW it sounds much better, atleast on Spotify, i might be wrong but i really thinks so!
They remixed it shortly after release
Wow. I didn't even know NIghtwish had a new single out... now, having heard it, I wish I *still* didn't know that...
I think most of their stuff has been pretty meh since Imaginaerum.
@@SrFranciscoDAnconiaI couldn't agree more. They really went downhill with Imaginaerium and never recovered.
Honestly I think it's because Anette had a very sweet fairytale like voice and it inspired Tuomas to write that kind of stuff.
Floors voice is more grounded, and earthy. The topics changed to biology and other earthy things.
I heard this song on Spotify and immediately listened to Wish I Had an Angel right after that and the difference is stunning. Nightwish hasn't had that kind of intensity in years!
Since 2016
*puts on Crownless to revive myself*
Please, I’ve been disappointed since 2016.
Let's be real for a sec. Marko was an outsized contributor to the sound of Nightwish. This is plain in the fact that they had to excise a bit from the setlist because nobody can fill those shoes vocally. Jukka has a big impact on arrangement as well. So you've lost two core members of the band that balance against Tuamos and what do you get.. a different direction in arrangement than you're used to seeing because two of the elements that helped shape that are gone. Red + green + grey == grey/brown in the right mix. Let's take the red and grey away.. is green the same as grey/brown? Hell no. The band dynamic has changed, the input and flavor of two new members are there but they're not the same input you would have from Marko and Jukka. This isn't rocket science. The sound is not what we're used to. I'm a new arrival to nightwish. I'm an artist, problem solver, etc.. When you change the dynamic of the room, you change the work product of the room. And that was going to happen the moment you lost Jukka and Marko. There is just no way round it. Can the new people play well? Sure. But they don't have the same experience, taste, input of the two sets of shoes being filled. Tuamos is the indispensible person on the stage. But he can only do what he does because of the input of the others. When that changes, the output changes. And here we are.
I came to Nightwish by getting run over by the mac truck of Tarja and Marko's Phantom interpretation. Hands down and without question the greatest version of phantom of the opera ever recorded. Someone called them the finish cast (play on words) of the phantom. I'd never heard of the group before. Had a similar thing happen with Liliac some time ago.. that "how have I never heard of these people before?!" moment. The industry pushes what it wants you to see and is silent about superior acts they aren't making any money off of. Simple as that. Although maybe I'm just weird.. I still listen to NENA and Falco. America isn't the only base of amazing music. To digress, again, I arrived late to find that the people that blew me away are gone. Floor's interpretation of phantom is different. I don't need to compare the two and I love Floor as a front woman. Frankly what she did in arriving with 48 hours notice and then pulling off that performance at Wacken.. tour de force. you'd think she'd been with the band for a decade on the strength of that night. Mindblowingly good. Her version of Ghost love Score is possibly the most reacted to piece of music on the internet. That is whack. But it so merits it. So I arrive and the band is coming apart at the seams. I could leave but I don't want to. I think they're leaving me just as I was introduced and I have no idea what the band will be. It may take another decade for them to find their footing or it may happen in the course of an album. It may not happen at which point tuamos is writing a sequal to poet and the pendulum? I really don't know what to project. I can only say that when you change the inputs, the outputs change with it. Beyond that, I am waiting to see where it goes. And rebuilding a plane falling out of the sky is messy business. So there's gonna be some chop.
In my opinion Nightwish didn't do much good stuff after Once. The second era with Anette was decent too, but way worse than the first, and their third era they are not even metal anymore, they are movie music, and with pretty boring song parts... and they seem to be more sucessful now than ever. Perhaps they just lost all the old fans like me a long long time ago, it seems plausible.
In a counterpoint to the traditional fact in these videos.... Floor is married to the drummer from Sabaton.
And Tank has an interview with Hannes from several years ago.
That’s why Sabaton’s drummer indeed likes to play the disco beat “Four on the Floor”.
@@cosmicprison9819 Dad joke special
I really agree with you I'm disappointed
It's like could have been a really great song but it's seems lacking, like where the big vocalist moment that we had in every song from tarja era to now ?
I know that Marko quitted but it's also lacking the raspy counter voice that also gave it's magic to Nightwish
Hearing this song feels like I'm waiting for something and it's never appears, Floor buried the whole time by the instru, nothing raspy to give an countervibe, feels like eating white rice without even salt, comestible but not great
Hope the whole album isn't like this
I've noticed this with alot of bands lately. Including Lorna Shore (1 of my favourite bands) the background elements begin to completely overpower the actual band members.
Lorna shore sounded so much better live because you could hear both the band and the backing tracks so much more clearly, but 1 didn't diminish the other.
I think it's honestly a trend thing at this point
Its fucking symphonic Metal. The symphony MAKES this entire genre. Its actually the other bands that turn that shit way down who dont understand what the genre is all about. Yes it is hard to incorporate but if you turn it way down you may as well not have it.
@@metalpuppet5798 Yes I do agree with you to an extent. Yes the symphonic elements play the biggest part of symphonic metal. But in this case, the metal element is being disregarded. And like tank said, it was mixed by the same people who mixed previous albums which sounded amazing.
@@tombrookes2923 the metal element isnt "being disregarded" at all. Its still heavy af. In fact just an orchestra by itself can be heavy af. Mixing guitars in that context is just really fucking hard because they completely bulldoze all of the orchestra if you are not careful. And thats why they are kinda low. They have no choice here
@@metalpuppet5798 I believe they did have a choice. They just made the wrong 1. And yes, it is a difficult 1 to do. And they have aced it with previous albums. But they really botched it with this 1
@@tombrookes2923 having Floor fully in the foreground would have not been the right choice at all. She did an incredible job but she also understands that this genre is about SO much more than the vocals. Its even about much more than just the hook. And the hook is clear as day as well. Sometimes the hook of a song does not have to be the loudest thing screaming at you. And this is a perfect example
The magic of Nightwish has been gone for a long time now.
Met you at Sweden Rock, was so nervous to yell out to you. Glad I did. So happy gor you to Work for the band I first saw your channel covering, Hypa Hypa. The guys were great and amazing live.
Thank god Tarja and Marko didn't stay in the band, it would be painful to see their voices buried in the generic music of the last decade. And I really like Floor. She was great in After Forever. Now Nightwish has condemned her to singing old songs that many believe still belong to Tarja and Anette. Tuomas could not write any iconic song for Floor. People should finally stop saying what a genius he is, because that's not true for a long time. Maybe it would make him try again
Tuomas once wrote amazing songs, but he’s so full of himself. He always would say his latest album are the best Nightwish album each time. They’ve gone downhill 3 albums in a row. I give up on this band
Nightwish fan considering sitting this album out
They’ve already announced her not touring for the foreseeable future
08:14 you're absolutely right. I hate the mixing on this new song... so bad...
I loved Floor in After forever and Revamp. She's being criminally underutilized in Nightwish, and this mix just shows it. She is a vocal powerhouse, not something you can drown out.
The last couple of albums have just felt like... a Soda that says it's Grape flavoured, but it just tastes like purple.
It's hinting at the possibility of being Nightwish, but without having Nightwish's undeniable Soulfulness and poetic depth.
This sound a bit too much Nightwish if you see what I mean .. Yes it is Nightwish, but that's it. feels low effort and her low voice volume does not help that feeling.
The mix is crap but it doesn't sound like Floor was phoning it in.
since marco left nightwish the band is just a shadow of itself, even floor can't change this anymore.
Yip you nailed that one I’ve been saying it for a long time
Not a fan of that "new but kind of the same as ever nightwish". To be honest, they lost me nearly 20 years ago, with Toumas' ego coming through. It's his little art project and that's all about it. On the other hand: Love seeing Tarja and Markko on their cute best friends tour.
Exactly like my opinion. Is it a way to show the rest of the band that I am the big star, to be celebrated?
As usual tholics still cant let go of what happened 20 years ago, proving that it was just about the singer for them, never the band as a whole.
@@TerranigmaQuintet No, don't get me wrong. Anette was ok, Floor is great no doubt, but Tuomas is a pretentious little shit bathing in his own "genius"...
@@TerranigmaQuintet Will Floor be the next to get fired?
A few things . . .
When I first bought "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" there were aspects I didn't like. When I bought "Human :||: Nature " there were aspects I didn't like. When I first listened to "Perfume of the Timeless" there were aspects I didn't like.
What I learned was that these songs need multiple listens before the complexity and the sophistication starts to sink in. There's too much going on for the average listener to grasp in one pass. And ya, if you missed what's going on with one listen, you're in the 'average' class. If that bothers you, get over it. I was a classical singer in my younger days and I miss a lot of what is going on in my first pass. For me, that just makes the music all the more interesting.
Nightwish does not produce music to match your expectation, nor mine. Floor has said in past interviews that sometimes Tuomas uses her voice like an instrument. Her clarity of tone and team player mentality gives him that option. Think of Floor as the lead singer in a choir of ghosts and the mix makes sense. Floor has a strong personality and if she thought her voice was being misused, it wouldn't stand.
Run through it five or ten more times and get back to us.
Honestly, Tank, when you said jokingly that it sounds like they brought Tuomas the final mix and he had them crank his shit up 20%...I think you hit the nail on the head cause that's exactly what it sounds like. I've been saying that I think Tuomas has a narcissism problem for almost 20 years and this is doing nothing but reinforce that. With the vocal mix, I could only make out a single word Floor sung and it just sounds like a muddled mess. It's all symphony and keyboards. From what I can make out of everything else, it sounds like a return to their old heavy style that was completely missing on their last two albums (which is probably why I didn't personally care for those albums), but none of that means anything with this godsawful mix. If this is what to expect from their upcoming album (I hope not, but I've learned over the years not to get my expectations up)...well...I didn't think I could possibly like one of their albums less than Human Nature (which is the one album they've made that I didn't like a single song on), but at least I can say that one was mixed well.
Imagine you are at school concert as a Singer and too shy to really give into the music and sing "loud and proud". This is the vibe I get with this song's vocal mix. If that makes sense.
Not hating or loving the mix, but I'm surprised how little variety a lot of people are prepared to accept. As if there's exactly one way to mix and everything must be that and never anything else. Sheesh, it's one song with a different expression on the mix. You don't have to like it, but maybe just once or a couple of times try to listen to what good there might be. If anything, it seems comical how many people declare a huge mistake has been made. It's not a mistake, it's just different.
No, it's badly mixed. The vocals are drowning in the chorus, there are volume imbalances and the sound is just overall very cluttered. The quality isnt there
@@papasmjordeig 🎯🎯
@@papasmjordeigbecause Tuomas wanted like it!I saw interview with person who mixed the album and he said we do not understand how much song change in mixing,they mixed this album 7 times until Tuomas said it's OK,why not just accept what it is and wait for another 11 songs???jesse
@@papasmjordeigIt's not. Or if it is, it's a very strange mistake by a very skilled and experienced group of people at the peak of their ability and resources. I don't think that's the case. There was just an interview with the mastering engineer and he confirmed it's exactly as Tuomas wanted and the whole band and production crew agreed.
I don't think it's bad, it's different. Nobody likes only good stuff, and all someone likes isn't good. It's like in fashion; a while ago supermodels were the most traditionally beautiful women and the best fashion was the most beautiful clothes. Then it got more interesting; models with different looks, haute couture clothes. Here, I think Tuomas didn't want the Cindy Crawford in Gucci mix. I don't mind.
I admit, i loved NW for many years, but at some point I didnt care anymore so much. So much sounds the same. I feel like over the years it became more and more Tuomas keyboard & arranger orgasm, for himself. The Metal in NW became less and less, and most of all that little remaining part of Metal feels like sounding almost the same with most of thieir songs. These days, bands like EPICA are what gives me much more Symphonic, not to mention that they really have the great & raw Metal in there. NW have become somewhat boring, in my opinion. Dont get me wrong I love Floor sing, she is great. But tbh she doesnt need NW with her voice, she can do it all on her own. I get a feeling NW is more a paycheck for her.
As for the mix of this song, that's an understatement. Its terrible. But again, it fits to my view of NW these days. I think its time to let NW die and move on. There are many bands that outlived their good days and are just still around for their name and the money that comes with it.
I could not have stated it better. I agree with you 100%! Thankfully great symphonic bands like Epica and Therion I have stayed true to their origins.
@@jonathanratliff4780 And there are a lot of great Symphonic Metal bands in Japan, one shouldn’t let language barriers be a problem. they have incredible music there.
This is Nightwishes "Justice for All" ;P
Justice For All sounds better, ahah
@iliangeorgiev1060 haha, no, it really doesn't
That's what I was thinking, and well... hopefully the whole album isn't like that. Because there's a good song under that terrible mix.
Tank, there must be something wrong with your ears. I have watched 30-40 perfume of the timeless reaction videos. None of them have commented that there is something wrong with the mixing. These reactions have been made by e.g. several musicians and composers. Their comments have been nothing but praise. Your comments sounded a little strange in this light? The talk about a bad mixing is complete nonsense (horse shit) Tuomas has created a masterpiece again!
man, most reactors are hypocrites. They always like everything. you are so naive
You're funny.🤣
Annette album smashes this! Nightwish are just to weird now. They give me a uncomfortable feeling honestly
Well , I think it is fantastic.
And my JBL speakers agrees with me.
It’s not the WORST but Floor is absolutely buried in the mix and it’s not good
I also think it’s great, I try not to over analyze, either you like it or you don’t, I will be buying the album,
@@squam3514 must not like Floor's voice
@@titusgray4598 I love Floor’s voice, I just don’t feel the need to over analyze every detail, like I said I will be picking up this album for sure.
All of this discussion about the mix makes me feel musically inept. Yeah, I understand what is being said, but it just doesn’t bother me the way it does others. I mean, the negativity is so rampant. This is how Tuomas envisioned it, and mixed it. I’m fine with it. The more I hear the song the more I like it.
It will be remastered someday. 😊 That begs the question: Why not just make it right now vs having to remaster it down the road?
This means you are in a cult
Don't you think it should grab you by the throat like Noise or Tribal? This is Elan all over again.
@@vogel2280The OP wasn't talking about musical style. They were talking about the mix of this song.
@@NothingElseMatters777 I was referring to the words "The more I hear the song the more I like it."
Tracks that need to grow on you seldom need to grow on you because they are so good. ...regardless the reason why they don't grab you from the get go.
I can't speak to the objective technical quality - I just don't really have an ear for that. But as far as the creative choice of having Floor's voice further in the background for the chorus... I mean, I think it works! I like the idea of having the vocalist being just another instrument in the song, rather than always having to be front and center - and I think it works for this song specifically. I can only speak for myself of course, but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the song at all.
With Troy as Tuomas wingman nothing is good. Since he become a member, Marco lost his part as wingman and Emppu was pushed out, so Troy was given larger place with flute, guitar and bagpipes..No more guitar solon from Emppu. Instead we got folkmusic and now historylection. But I’m feeling so good that Marco and Tarja have so much project and tours together.
I have listened to night wish a little but I never really cared much for them till this song. So for me it's a great song. The first several times I listened to it I thought vocals were too low but as I repeatedly listen to it I don't really notice. Just sounds epic. Wouldn't hurt for vocals to be higher but it's only during piyd parts that they are low in the mix
Yes, the same people mixed it. There is a post on their IG from February 29 with the picture of Tuomas and engineers after the album was mixed and mastered. It says they were the same people they’ve used for 25 years.
I'm kind of tired of their "Musical experience" stuff. Just put out some rock songs dude. Stop with the weird animal noises and wind blowing "songs".
so... hear another band then...
@@michaelrie8756 Yeah, no shit.
But I'm allowed to be disappointed in one of my favourite bands music.
Ps. The word is "listen". "LIsten to another band"
Nightwish dont dissapoint "did you feel the ghost energy song"
I listened to this song many times by now, and it is one i like to listen to with my headphones or without, its really a good song, when i can do so to me.
Some say Floors voice is low in the mix, and i can agree its hard to get all words she
sing, but if you look at it soundwise it sounds amazing!! and after a listen or 2, you know most of lyrics, and its no problem at all, its done fully on purpose for the sound experince of it, and to make her a sound like a part of the ancestors choir.. cant wait for rest of album!!
Yesterwynde is the opening track on new album, i belive its only like a intro, its a little over 2 min long, #2 on album then is a almost 10 min song, thats proberly another epic!! #3 is where i think they bring in a heavy track, and this Perfume of the timeless is #5.. so i think its gonna be a good mix of heavy songs, Epics, and maybe a full balled..
Perfume of the timeless, well its almonst a ghost energy song right, telling all these ancestors is perfume around in a timeless world, being around you still, also a message that your existens matters!! i feel tuomas also put in a little message that mankind could do better still, Einstein turn to ape..
The title of the album is a word made by band member Troy Donockley, which Holopainen describes as the feeling of time, history, memory, and being connected to past generation, who have "all had their lives, their ups and downs, and they don't exist anymore, except as atoms scattered all over the universe. And we're going to be in that state pretty soon as well. So that should give you something to think about."
Holopainen has described the album as being about humanism, history, and the inspiration thereof, and that outlook of the album is positive and optimistic ]
Track listing Yesterwynde: release date 20th September 2024
All tracks are written by Tuomas Holopainen.
Yesterwynde track listingNo. Title Length
1. "Yesterwynde" 2:43
2. "An Ocean of Strange Islands" 9:26
3. "The Antikythera Mechanism" 5:55
4. "The Day of..." 4:34
5. "Perfume of the Timeless" 8:11
6. "Sway" 4:23
7. "The Children of 'Ata" 5:37
8. "Something Whispered Follow Me" 6:39
9. "Spider Silk" 6:26
10. "Hiraeth" 6:14
11. "The Weave" 4:53
12. "Lanternlight" 6:06
Total length: 71:07
Tank you should continue your Epica journey.
I've been a Nightwish fan for over 20 years, I have gotten to the point that they're just such a fixture of my life and I love everything they do. I'm not hardcore or weird, I don't consider myself part of the "Nightwish army" (I find most of those people are weirdo Floor stans and I prefer to distance myself from them).
I am one of those people who thinks Tuomas is a "once in a generation" genius composer. I saw them live for the first time back in 2000, in a venue of 900 people. They are at a point now where they can just do whatever the fuck they want, it's all good. They make the music they want to make (well, Tuomas wants to make), not what they think fans might want to hear. And that's good for them right? A lot of musicians wish they had that luxury. Chris Bowes from Alestorm said on Reddit recently that he tried a different sound on one of their recent albums, but fans just want "old school Alestorm", so he felt forced to go back to that saying "I have bills to pay so I hate my life now". I think it is awesome for Nightwish that they don't have those kinds of concerns, good for them.
edited to add: the song grows on you btw. It's an acquired taste, so to speak.
There has not been a single NW album or even song that I did not have to play several times to get into. Which, to my ears, is a sign of greatness. Claiming to be able to pass judgement on a first listen/watchalong with your fans is incredibly pretentious.
As for the mix:
first of all it doesn't sound as bad as you describe it. Talk about hyperbole. I get it, you need clicks like all YT experts.
Secondly: if you think UA-cam sounds anywhere near the full product, I think you are mistaken. But don't bite the hand that feeds you. Again, I get it.
Third: you are talking about a band that has never set a foot wrong after they stopped Tuomas singing on the albums ^^ Let's at least give them enough credit and postpone final judgement until the album comes out.
This sounds like someone asked AI to make a Nightwish song
Udio AI creates music with better mix just check on their site
I like it. No problem whatsoever.
Hes jusf after attention hes a sad little Canadian daddy probably hurt him as a child lol
I think it’s a test . Tuomas is intrigued by the people who listen to his creations . He puts out this Sample of a new Album months before the Official Release to see if people will blindly love it just because it’s Nightwish or will the real fans give him the feedback he expects . Are we all awake and paying attention or just blindly standing in line . This story isn’t over just yet . 😊
Excellent point!
Well I think his little test with this song is going to come back on him three fold. Surely they didn't listen to it and say yeah the mix is great. Because it really isnt. You can't use a main vocalist to sing your songs, then place that voice in the background. May as well not use a vocalist at all.🤷🏻♀️
Gosh, I hope you are correct !
@@lea-anne9133Who can say is good or not? The mixed bible? lol
i agree, but i doubt the Intention. Its more like do i get away monetary and in public, in going instru and thin Male voice from now on.-
When I first heard this my immediate thoughts were "This is going to be Tuomas's solo 'concept album' featuring Nightwish members as guest musicians". The last 27 years were amazing, epic, incredible...but the next few years?
In that kind of music the orchestration just IS the main element. That has nothing to do with ego or any of that. Its just what symphonic Metal is like. Tuomas is absolutely right if he wants those elements right in the front. I am sick of so called "symphonic Metal" bands completely burying their symphonic elements in the mix. THAT is a disservice to this beautiful genre of music. As a guitarist etc in such a band you just need to expect to be there to provide a bed and nothing more. And as for the vocals they all made the concious decision to have Floor lower in the mix because of the story of the song. Shes part of the "choir of ancestors" and not standing above them. You can still hear and understand her
Nightwish is done. It happens to all bands, too bad they didn't realize it when Marko did.
@@nobodyimportant7804 they are still killing it. This song is epic
@@metalpuppet5798 okie dokie, mighty member of the Nightwish cult.
I lost it when I read "my song it is for mankind". So pretentious. And I got that feeling you said.
i see an interview with the guy who are mixt the album ,Mika and he said all that are intentional. They want to the all instruments make 1 and the voice be part of the songs. Its the moove of the band. i think you over exagerated
Great review as always. I agree on the mixing and unnecessary chaos. It’s like “what is the goal here?”.
It doesnt sound good. And if you listen close it’s very similar to amaranth.
VERY Amaranth
Finally great and not a fanboy review!!! Thanks for this!
My main issue with this is simply the fact that it sounds so Nightwish. I'm getting bored of the same formula over and over again. And the riffs aren't exciting on this one. Hell, it's supposed to be a metal song...
When Marco was with them they were almost metal but never fully symphonic metal like Fleshgod Apocalypse or Epica legit metal