I've Had Water in My Air Line For Years... Time to Fix It
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Patreon: / liftarcstudios
We have been having issues with our air supply system ever since we started here. Our original system pumped air throughout the shop with PEX pipe, which has many issues but at least it got the job done. But one negative side effect was the fact that it would expand and contract allowing for an irregular pressure flowing throughout the shop. Also our air dryer was very rudimentary and would allow small amounts of water to reach our plasma cutter, which would then throw error codes and ruin cuts.
So Tay finally bit the bullet and paid the price for a superior air system... follow along as he endeavors to overhaul the whole shop's air lines!
Thanks for watching!
To inquire about a custom build we can help you bring to life, or to be a sponsor of the channel, shoot Tay an email at: Tay@liftarcstudios.com
Produced & Hosted by: Tay Whiteside
Filmed by: Tay Whiteside and Walker Hooper
Featuring: Wyatt Allen, Jake Freeland, and Steve Heintzel
Edited by: Walker Hooper
Music Licensed from Artlist.io
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Any technique or methodology shown in this video is purely for entertainment and informational purposes only. Lift Arc Studios and their associated craftsmen are not liable for any injury or damage to your shop or surrounding areas you man incur while trying to emulate these builds. Remember, be safe, have fun, work smart!
I like how you put a condensate drain right above an electrical box.
We call that a "fail aware system" in the biz.
should make for an interesting video when the line is blown down lol
The end of that valve is threaded so he could run a drain line to get it away from the box
That’s what gfci and breakers are made for. What do you do with your plugs in the bathroom after steamy showers?
Should have just ran it through the box. Mixing electricity and water is shockingly fun. 😂
I have built a lot of air systems, here are a few things I noticed. The air compressor in the closet does not have enough cooling, the enclosed space is retaining the heat from the compressor, the air entering the compressor is already hot and gets hotter the longer it runs, This is your biggest cause of excessive water in the system, The pressure drop you were experiencing at the plasma was not from the Pex being plastic, it may swell a little under pressure but it is still 3/4" weather it is under pressure or not, the pressure drop was mainly from the filters and desiccant dryer right at the compressor, you have plenty of air in the tank it just can't get to the plasma fast enough, filters slowing air flow install filter just before Plasma, every fitting you have adds to the reduction in flow 90s valves etc. The Air dryer will also add restriction to flow but that is worth the trade-off. Something to think about!
Exactly! I actually use 1/4" id air line to my plasma table from my air compressor at the front garage, under the house, and to a back garage. I cut up to 3/4" plate on mine with a hypertherm 65 and the compressor is a real 5hp westinghouse air brake company pressure lubed unit that makes 20 cfm. The difference is that it is tank pressure, 135 psi to 170 psi, running to the table and then the 5 micron and .01 micron paper filter are right after a regulator at the cutter. A gauge right before the plasma shows it never drops below 100 psi. Bigger hose may be better, but I used what I had and it works. In my main shop, there is another of the same filter system right after the compressor and then it goes to 1/2" copper and 3/8" tekton USA made hybrid hose with milton V series high flow 5 way couplers and V series plugs on the tools. The whips at each work area are plumbed straight to the copper without couplers.......just as you said, I went for less restriction and short runs and my die grinders and skat blast gun with a 20-25 cfm tip work great.
How about adding a 3 or 5 gallon tank as a reservoir near the plasma cutter? I'd plumb it so there's a drain at the low point, either automatic or manual. With the dryers and filters in front of it, I'd think it shouldn't accumulate much moisture very soon. What I'm not sure of is if it should be before or after the separator or filter just before the plasma cutter.
Thanks for showing us the process
Thanks for the video of your adventures. Compressors, bends in the lines, and stuff like that do not "make" water in your lines - the water is just condensed out of the intake air that feeds your compressor and then into your system. Humid air in gives wet air out. Keeping your compressor cool (not in a hot closet) will let a LOT of the moisture condense out in the cooler tank (vs a baking tank in the closet) before it even hits the lines. The cooler the air is when it goes in the dryer will give better results and let the dryer cycle less (if it is a cycling type).
You should always run a ballast tank and a check valve between your service line and your machine. That would eliminate the so-called water hammer effect that you talking about. It would not allow air to back feed into the system. It would give water a place to settle before it hit the plasma machine, then you just blow down the tank every so often.
ALWAYS put a air dryer between the Kompressor and the tank, so you prevent water and rust in the tank
Thanks for your fun content :D didn't think I'd watch 40 minute video on installing an air compressor line on a friday night, but here we are :D
this type of pex is called PEX-AL-PEX and is also used in hydronic heating (water floor heating) as it's also an oxygen barrier and help prevent corrosion with stale water in closed loop system
and if you buy it without the MaxLine™ blue jacket its 1/2 the price.🤷♂ PEX-AL-PEX radiant floor tubing goes for about $1/ft. Maxline is $2/ft.
2nd point is you can use brass pex fittings and crimp rings too. Those Stainless Maxline fittings are overkill and unless you lube them they seize up. That horrific noise is the stainless galling and making itself one with the universe. Use anti-seize on the nuts if you ever want to get them apart.
lastly... the 1/2 tubing will flow 25 scfm easily. Most folks dont need 3/4 airlines.
Pretty sure that Maxline is HDPE-AL-HDPE, not quite the same. However, PEX and HDPE are both a form of polyethylene. I am not certain on which one is better in this application.
@@whs2220 25cfm till you get all the elbows and long runs in there then rubber hoses and that 25cfm is much lower
36:01 "And then you guys have seen how to do something, like this, the wrong way, in a rushed fashion. Thanks for watching! Don't do anything I've done."
Now print THAT on a merch t-shirt! Hahahaha love it
“This is not a tutorial” is exactly why I keep watching your subpar content. 😂 Honestly you’re what I watch when I watched all the good stuff, but I really did not want to miss out on it. It’s like eating the bad stuff when you’re hungry enough. I need you!
I’m not sure if this is a compliment or an insult. 😂
@@R07ishere 😂 It’s not supposed to be an insult. Actually, it’s not an insult at all. I wouldn’t bather to comment in that case. Not much of a troll I guess.
It’s an encouragement!!! Room to grow. I appreciate the honest approach and the commitment to art. I tolerate the commercials/sponsorships/reviews as part of the learning curve. I can relate as I like money too.
I think your ultimate value will be in honesty and art. I may like that outcome or not. What’s important is what you all want to do/be.
It’s a bit trashy to me but a very interesting experiment that I would like to succeed and surprise me! You’re the closest i’ll ever come to gambling.
Hope that all makes some sense.
thanks for the videos tay, and cant believe you been without the cnc table for over a year. must be real hard to be without it. look forward to the video of the new table install when you get it.
Doing auto restoration since 2011 retirement clean dry air w/o oil particulate matter is a necessity for paint and makes all pneumatic tools happy and longer lasting is really a necessity for any shop interested in quality. I am sure you will appreciate the improved air distribution, drying, and filtering system immediatly and now you can do quality painting if needed while all of your air tools will happily last longer especially if you add any CNC machine centers that need compressed air in the future your shop will be ready. Good Job. Ray
If you still put a radiator type of after cooler between the compressor and the ref. air dryer it will help the RAD work much better and save it from working as hard. The cooler the air entering the RAD the better. Also an auto drain on the tank is critical.
Well congrats Tay. Hopefully it works well for you for many years to come my friend. Can't wait to see more videos soon my friend. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Fab On. Weld On. Keep Making. God bless.
Looks like you have a good setup there. Where you have quick connects with a temporary hose downstream, look at safety couplers. Harbor Freight, Northern, Lowe's etc. all have them. It releases the downstream pressure before you disconnect the hose.
Also a good ending for these videos might be something like: as always the experts down below will tell you how to do this properly.
For your dry air you want a pre filter before the drier and a post filter. Usually .1 micron before and .01 micron. I install air systems for IR as a contractor for them. Also if you repipe your compressor with a transmission radiator after your compressor before the tank with an water separator and a 10 micron filter you will have a superior air system.
Are you as shitty as the IR techs here in my state. I love taking your customers.
Selling compressors customers don't need
Horrible service and respect to customers
Will never help customers unless it's warrenty.
200hp IR, 8 years old
IR states the machine is fucked
I replace the thermal valve hey look its been running going on another 2 years.
This is why IR buys contractors they suck
Love the thumb nail🤣🤣 !!!
As someone who has worked in a shop like yours it's very satisfying to watch you go through all that stuff that I've been through :D
Keep them coming!
Your pressure drop is not from the flex in your line and It's not the PSI; it's the volume of air in your system is not enough to supply all your equipment at once. Consider adding an additional receiver tank for a cheap fix.
Play safe from Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada.
On top of everything else you are a very likeable fella. I really enjoy your videos.
Art from Ohio
Every tight bend you have in airline will create moister. I have six air hookups in my shop and the only time I get a 0-30-0 on my Hypertherm is when my 45 fine cut is a little used. Most of the time I use my 65 tip and forget about the moisture until the plasma cutter spits and I look at my beads and say oops. I have 2 tees that lead to my plasma, I drain my compressor very rarely. So it's totally a compressor and a weak air dryer problem. It's normally the way it's plumbed. You can also put moisture traps in. You know how a gas fixture has a tee put in instead of a 90 degree use that as a moisture collector. I saw this in one shop I worked at and I thought it was genius. It was a big manufacturing shop but the almost gallons of water that came out of them every day and there was a dryer in the system.
I put the MaxAire System in when I built my shop 6 years ago and after doing all the conduit bending myself to save money it was the coolest and most simple system that went into the shop. I hate leaking air and can honestly say so long as we remember to take the one high volume blow gun off the line it has remained leak free. MaxAire is a great system, I found the fittings to be on the expensive side but the end result is great. I must say I am jealous of your fancy air dryer but I am getting by with one giant filter/dryer and a shop built “radiator” type cooler/dryer.
If the only air filter you had was the one right off the compressor before you added the dryer, moisture passed through it in the hot/warm air, and condenses and settles down the line,
I put a transmission cooler on the compressor after the pump and before the tank to keep the moisture out of the tank.
Nice upgrade to the air system.
The 3/4" Rapid Air pipe is great to work with. I piped air to a remote shop with the Rapid Air pipe. In the end it was the most cost effective way to go. Nearly 200' buried across the yard.
I hope you have an auto drain on your air tank. If not did you consider going through the dryer before going into the tank.
look into the kieser air compressors
We have a dryer at work but over time we still get moisture in the lines but at every outlet we have a drain under each drop down to just get any additional moisture out as I’m a paint sprayer moisture is a big enemy
You need to write Manny’s name on him. For perseverance sake and such. You created a new character in the Lift Arc world..don’t let him die off! 😂😂😂 Good overhaul.
Air lines can expand and flex without affecting flow. It's actually SLIGHTLY beneficial as it acts as an additional reservoir and also increases the pipe diameter.
I think you've gotten confused with hydraulic lines, those really do benefit from being rigid.
I guess I missed the part why you bought a dryer when you had that free one. Regardless there are several things that should have been done. Volume is important for some machines not just pressure. We discovered this on some of our Haas Machining centers. Our solution was adding another storage tank to hold more volume. We run a Ingersol Rand screw compressor and pump into a 120 gal reserve tank then to even another smaller one at the machines. You may want to consider that for your plasma. Screw compressors don’t create as much condensate but still we have separators. Nice thing about them is they help generate heat in the shop( added bonus ) In my home shop I have a compressor similar to yours I installed an auto drain that empties tank water when it starts up. I used Garage Pak all aluminum airline . They have awesome easy to use fittings and clamps. Pricey but hey, do it right the first time right? I also have several separators throughout. Funny story, many years ago I had a paint shop in my machine shop. Water free air was important as you can imagine. Someone actually made a filter canister that you’d put a roll of toilet paper in to trap the water. Did it work? Ask me lol. Enjoyed your video 🤙🏻
Easy quick manifold, (1) 3/4" Bushing to down to whatever size threads for your line or thread the correct line right in, (4) 3/4" Pipe Black Pipe/brass Tee, (3)-3/4" 1 1/2" long pipe nipple, (1) 3/4" plug. Gives you 1 Inlet, 4 outlets with 1 extra plugged end to add on later. Always consider using a Tee instead of a 90 so you can add later.
So glad to see you ditched that lousy toilet paper style air filter system on your plasmas air connection system. i know this is a huge undertaking but your air tools will thank you for it. Especially any paint or plasma work you do.
You should also install a small 2-3 gallon tank next to the plasma cutter to assist.
use the other end of the manifold for a morning moisture drain.
If you really want to invest in your line some day, take a look at the PREVOST air line system. Rigid tubing, easy to cut, a variety of connections that work off a hand tightened o-ring seal. We had it in the building we purchased and would not consider doing different. We have spent the money to add onto it. Our Kaeser rep said that he has never see one of the connections leak. Speaking of Kaeser, if you need to upgrade your compressor, take a look at them. Excellent screw compressors. Back in the day, if you didn't use a lot of air all the time, screw compressors didn't work well, but Kaeser now has their AirTower line that overruns to heat so that the moisture is "cooked out" of the screws and aside from a start up turbo noise, they are not terribly loud. They are noticeable but have a constant hum instead of the pounding from a piston compressor. Have zero complaints with the Prevost stuff after 12 years in our building and the Kaeser has been amazing for the past 2 years. It is expensive, but as they say at ShopSabre, "Buy Once, Cry Once" or "Buy your 2nd machine the 1st time" 😁
You should not place the coupler over an electrical box. If the valve is opened without something to catch the water, you could have a serious problem.
Great video liked how you explained it all 👍👍
That's good stuff did two shops with it ya should just left them 90 out up top an just bent it better flow an save a few bucks
I laughed out aloud so much at the squeaky nut / fart noises.. I am a 40 year old man and I should grow up, but I loved the editing.. Made my day!
"This is not a tutorial", it is an experience!! That is: what not to do for the rest of us...
Neoprene mat underneath the unit would be a good addition.\
I wonder if one could put the SMH40 dryer between the compressor and the tank: that way you wouldn't have moisture in the tank or the first filter combo.
And good work on saving (not loosing) the footage over the one year+ timespan! 🤣
Every air compressor is a dew point squeezer. Best get a refrigeration dryer. Using two coalescing filters pre dryer is best for indoor use.
Every three years min have a A/C tech check the refrigerant charge.
that blowing of the fitting's apart will become a normal occurrence every few months. Happened all the time in my last shop .
Do you also open the petcock on the bottom of the compressor tank to empty pooled water? My brother had an auto repair shop and the State of California would send out inspectors and they would run a magnet all over their compressor to check for corroded thin spots. The shop always emptied the tank at the end of the work day. The inspectors were always surprised that they couldn’t cite the shop for sketchy
Thought it was you need a filter before the dryer. Thats how i have our shops set up. Drain the tank drain the pre filter once a week. No problems with condensation. Guess it would be good to have a post filter aswell.
isnt that how he has it?
Get a 110 air drain for the tank that it pops open and drains the air every so often so it will drain the tank
I know it's all done now but I'm wondering if a small reserve tank near the plasma cutter wouldn't have helped with the pressure drop.
Yes John, a storage tank near the plasma cutter would help much! We use to call it "point of use storage" I installed several storage tanks near High use in a plant that I worked in. it would also need a check valve on the inlet side so it won't back feed, unless that would be needed for another use.
Yep, I have a mini storage tank (5 gallon) near both my cnc machines for this exact reason.
What happened to the salvage cooler? Was it broken?
I was wondering the same thing
I missed the story on the free/salvage air dryer - I take it that it didn't work?
I have three different wood shops that have been Piped with 3/4 Schedule 40 pipe(pvc) one shop has a screw aircompressor with air drier . The pipe is rated higher than 300 psi. This shop has used this for over twenty years it is easy to change low maintenance. If you need a fitting they can be picked up at home depot for cheep they are a cimical weld . You can use electrical clamps to hold the pipe where this or the pex fittings are about 4 times more than the cemical weld pve pipe. Why waist your mony putting this stuf up.
@ 40:35 I was waiting for Aaron to ask how much is your only fans...lol
Wow one of the first motos I had was a CB360.
BadAss the new owners are not even 15mins away from me
Put the hose loop after the compressor up or on incline either way..
you forgot the shut off valve before the manifold that you said you were going to put in .
I may be wrong, but doesn’t the drain for that first line sit right above some type of electrical unit?
Would it have made more sense to put the dryer in between the compressor and the air tank?
I would go from the compressor to the air dryer then to the tank
If there’s that much water in the line, how much is in the tank?
I need to get a shop. How did you do it? Think you did a vid but i dont remember how you financed it.
LOL, I love the fart humor... Nice work in the shop!
How is it that the expansion of pex causes a restriction?
thats a bit on the bogus side. its the expansion/contraction of the plain PEX that can cause a long pressure drop during pressure changes that can cause havoc with the plasma cutter. As the PEX expands, the pressure drops until it hits its elastic limit and then the pressure builds again. So it exacerbates the pressure changes.
Look into the Air system Abomb has
It looks like your water drain valve is above an electrical panel, is that a good idea???
You will have to clean the dryer coil
Colab with Matt in Texas... make something for the "Abandoned Ranch"
Your issue is not the PEX, your issue is the inefficient plumbing (air is still a fluid) and small diamter tube and regulators. Decent sized main line along with final regulation at the end device see a lot of issues go away.
Does SMH stand for Shake My Head? I noticed that right after you showed your busted knuckle.
Your talents are manifold, Tay. What's the PSI for fart sounds? :D
Why pay to get rid of ads when you get rid of them for free for The Last 5 years I haven't had to watch a single ad get enough of those on Facebook and TV Ultra Adblock for the win
And the mold and dust in that old place is destroying your lungs😮
Need to get that filter further away away from the tank.
If you don't drain the air compressor regularly / daily you will get water in the lines.
Be sure to drain the main tank at least once a week
Peeyow! Peeyow! Peeyow!
That aluminum lined pex is just overly expensive pex. U can get 200 psi poly and sharkbites will do just fine.
what kind of poly???
Should have gotten a little better trailer for hauling it to Texas. It's not the best-looking trailer. 🤣🤣
ABC Always Be Closing
Link for the straightener please!
google: "M8097 - Maxline Wheel Straightener Tool"
@@natarem Thank you!!!!
0:01 How to destroy a camera sensor 101, lasers can permanently ruin a sensor in an instant even at low power.
Say humid instead of moist. Lol
This stuff is just pex-al-pex like what's in hydronic heating systems fittings looks mostly the same.
Great use of memes
Failure is the only way to learn, and time time and failure is what makes a professional there is no Pro on the planet that has not got firstly time and a multitude and many multitude of mistakes which is what makes you a pro so I never consider failure as a Bad Thing even though you hated it's always a learning experience and how you become Pro in the long run so it's just by doing you can only do so much book and then you just got to put your hands on it and when you put your hands on it is when you start to learn what book was trying to tell you you my opinion
You put a drain valve over an electrical box!!!!!
Your analogy of PEX flexing causing a sudden loss of pressure when a large cfm piece of equipment (plasma machine) calling, then throwing a code for less than 90psi on the plasma machine - is completely WRONG! I am a union pipefitter/plumber of 43 years, the flexing/swelling of PEX actually HELPS in this situation - as the diameter of pex decreases by a sudden use/loss of pressure, the smaller diameter actually helps to keep the pressure up, NOT lower as you claim! The sudden loss of pressure is caused by a lack of VOLUME of the system, specifically the volume of the main line. Using 3/4 main is your problem - in a shop such as yours a 1" (minimum) to 1-1/2" main supply line should be used. The larger the better, with each drop coming a minimum distance from the mainline. The filters, and dessicant dryers are the biggest choke point in your system - you need lots of VOLUME AFTER these restrictions. Making the main a complete loop around the shop is also the recommended method in shops like yours. Random ballast tanks on the main also help greatly.Please stop making stuff up, that is basically wrong from every level, maybe even consult someone that actually has pipefitting/engineering experience! Summary - you literally did nothing in this video to address the problem you used to convince us you needed to do these "changes" to the air system!
There is no female version according to the Looney Tunes of the world today😂
This is not a good air system for a lot of reasons. Why not run steel lines and be done. I put in 1" trunk line in 1985 that runs across the shop and have never had to think about it since. Heat is a compressors biggest enemy, additional fan on the compressor & ventilation will ensure your compressor lives a long stress free life. Your not educating folks in a good way, and this will not be your last system.
Cost
Weather controlling criminals and their pyrotechnics anyhow. Trashing us in Oregon
You made the point of lines being short and direct, however your setup appears to be ideal for a ring main, the same as electrical. one of the best things we did in our shop. Have no drops in pressure because technically there is no end of the line, only the last 6ft of downpipe to the outlet. Something to think about…
If are thinking of this shop as a more permanent location. I would recommend copper line, but what do i know im not a pneumatic technician at all.
Also just an opinion every shop i have been to that regularly needs air to complete tasks that uses a recip is cheap as fuck
Cool opinion bro. Got 10k laying around for a rotary compressor? Thanks for being here, really enjoying your company.
What do you need i got it, 100hp only going for 50k. To hot i got it need to cool down a bit 100hp from 1999 10k for ya scratch and dent special only for you.
Invest in your future
Probably speaking for many, we need more cowbell! The fart sounds are juvenile. A cowbell inserted occasionally would be so much more mature. Right?