Talvisota (The Winter War): My Full Length Reaction (Part 1/2)
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- Опубліковано 30 лис 2023
- In this video, I'll be sharing my genuine reaction and thoughts about Talvisota. Talvisota, also known as The Winter War, is a powerful and historically significant war drama set during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union in 1939. Join me as I dive deep into Talvisota, the captivating storyline, mesmerizing performances, and breathtaking cinematography that make this movie a must-watch. Get ready for an insightful and heartfelt review that will connect you with the raw emotions conveyed by this masterpiece
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This Movie scores 7.6/10 on IMDB. This Movie was written by Pekka Parikka and Anti Tuuri. This Movie was directed by Pekka Parikka. The full list of the Stars of the Movie is available at www.imdb.com/title/tt0098437/. This Movie was produced by Marko Rohr and National- Filmi OY. The copyright to the full original content is held by National-Filmi OY. The copyright for this video is held exclusively by Jay's Retro Reactions.
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#zombies #horror #horrormovies #70s #70smovies #georgeromero #unitedstates #unitedkingdom #canada #ireland #europe #scary #creepy #undead - Розваги
![*SISU! Be Of Stoic Determination* Talvisota - The Winter War Sabaton History 006 [Official]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZvFOCGSx-MI/mqdefault.jpg)
Finland's independence day is on the 6th, so in advance, have a great one all you Finns.
Finlands respons: Love or Hate. We will! Thanks about our Bithday!
Thank you!
Finland became independent in 1917
Finns didn't invent the Molotov cocktail, but they did name it. The Soviets claimed, through their foreign minister Vyacheslav Molotov, to the world press that they were dropping food parcels into Helsinki, when in fact they were bombing the city. So the Finns went "Yeah? Food parcels, you say? Well here, have some of this lovely drink I made to go with them"
Ha ha - I like it! - we have our own version of the Molotov here as well - mainly used in the past in Belfast and Derry during the Northern Irish Troubles.
To be precise, the Finns did not invent the fire bottle concept, but did invent the Molotov cocktail.
Basic "petrol in a bottle sealed with a rag" was used already in the Spanish Civil War. Also various fire containers had been used in the history.
However the Finnish Molotov cocktail was a more sophisticated "designer" product. It was
- an optimized and standardised mixture of petrol, spirit, waste spirit and tar
- industrially produced
- with two storm maches (the other one as spare), no rag
- aptly and catchily (unofficially) named as Molotov cocktail
It was also used way before that in the Irish War of Independence - it was thrown out of buildings on to the open top trucks of the infamous Black and Tans of the British Forces sent to quell the rebellion.
Hey all - this is the premiere of my full length reaction to Part 1 of Talvisota which I normally only ever release on Patreon. This part 1 full length reaction is over 1.5 hours long and is uncensored etc. I will have to take this down at some stage and put up a cut and censored version to get monetised but I thought in honour of the upcoming Finnish Independence Day (06 Dec) I would release the full length part 1 of the Movie reaction. Hopefully you can join me for that and I look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Jay!
In the movie they often refer to these ostrobothnian guys being "the mean guys" is because the reputation of knife-wielding mean people in the "pohojammaa." (Pohjanmaa is in Ostrobothnian dialect spelled as "Pohojammaa." Pohjanmaa translates to English/Cartography as Ostrobothnia.)
Ah okay - thanks for explaining that to me mate - I appreciate it. I presume that also explains the lack of use of Bayonets in most of the hand to hand fighting shown in the Movie.
At 15:47 one of the key learnings from the Winter War was not to deploy locally assembled troops, in order to prevent entire families and villages getting wiped out in a single attack.
That's actually a nicely illustrated between this film, where everyone speaks with a southern Ostrobothnian accent, and in the Unknown Soldier, where the characters speak in a wide variety of dialects, which adds quite a lot to the story (and how it was).
Thanks Kallenic for watching the video and for sharing that additional information - I appreciate it! Yeah I get how having local guys together is great for morale and unit bonding but it's a disaster when that same unit takes heavy losses due to the impact on a particular area or region.
That’s like in WWI when Britain deployed ‘Pals’ battalions - units recruited from a single town. Many suffered high casualties in the Battle of the Somme, and often families were receiving notifications at the same time as their neighbours. After that, replacements for these units came from different districts.
The same happened in Ireland which was part of the UK during WW1. Those PAL Battalions were a disaster for many areas.
Thanks for taking your time to watch this!
My grandad traveled to the Winter War from western Lapland, and his first battle was the Battle of Raate Road, which took place from the 1st to the 7th of January, in 1940. It is interesting to read his notes and letters, written as he was getting closer and closer to the border ...and finally skiing in the forest, performing surprise attacks against the Russians stuck on the Raate road. It was bitterly cold, -40° Celsius, but according to my grandad it was also very beautiful. Deep forest covered in pure snow, stars and the moon above... And the brutal fighting, of course.
The Russian 163rd Rifle Division and 44th Rifle Division were pretty much destroyed by our outnumbered 9th Division. Our troops used the so called "motti tactic", cutting the long Russian column into smaller sections, and then destroying them one by one.
My grandad served in an infantry regiment JR 27, in the 5th Company ("Turtola Boys") of the 2nd Battalion. His role was a platoon sergeant. He also fought in the Battle of Kuhmo, which took place nearby.
Hey Sammenluola thanks to you for watching the video - I appreciate it! Thanks also for sharing your Granddad's story which was really interesting to read. You must be very proud of his role in the War and it's great that you managed to keep his letters and notes. Did you ever think of publishing them?
Little side note. The tune the guy was playing on the ‘mandolin’ is for a song called ‘Emma’. It was the first Finnish ‘pop’ hit in the 1920s.
Really - I didn't know that - thanks for letting me know.
Some short answers to questions again:
- I saw somebody else told you that the rifle you keep asking about was a Lahti-Saloranta LMG, which is correct. You're also correct Lahti made the anti-tank rifle. He also made a pistol and other small arms. Lahti was pretty much the primary weapons designer in Finland of this era.
- I don't know who made comments that the Finns don't use artillery because of the terrain, that's a fairly idiotic argument and today Finland has the most artillery of any country in Europe - and still the same terrain.
The reason is much more simple. Money. That's also the reason the troops aren't issued uniforms early on, there weren't any. The army was incredibly underfunded and simply didn't have any equipment.
While still greatly underequipped in the continuation war, building on the experiences of the winter war, the army had been significantly strengthened at that point.
- The vast majority of Finns did not expect the Soviets to actually invade. Even as they began massing on the border it was just seen as a way to pressure Finland in the negotiations, the general consensus was that there would be a peaceful agreement. But not everybody were completely surprised and Finland started these "extraordinary training exercises" a month of two before hostilities broke out where they reinforced the border building trenches and fortifications and did some refreshment training for the troops in what was essentially partial mobilization.
- The Soviet territorial demands were significant but "limited". On paper they weren't horrible but the devil is in the details and the Soviets demanded things like a military base within artillery range of Helsinki as well as the destruction of ALL Finnish fortifications on the eastern border, including those remaining on Finnish land. Some of the demands simply weren't reasonable.
- I was one of the people who said religion played no role in the continuation war. I stick to that here too, I've never heard religion mentioned in relation to the war at all. It was certainly there as there were religious people, but it was never a reason for fighting.
- Finland declared independence in 1917 while Russia was still too weak from its own civil war to intervene, which made them accept the declaration. However the civil war broke out the following year between the whites (landowners, more wealthy/educated individuals, upper class and government) and the reds (socialists, communists, working class).
The whites were led by Mannerheim and had an officer class of individuals who went to Germany to receive training during WW1, while the reds were led by communists like Kuusinen and individuals elected by the workers. The whites got some support from Germany and the reds got support from the Soviets and some Russian troops still remaining in the country after independence had been declared.
Lots of atrocities from both sides preceded the outbreak of full-scale civil war. Eventually the whites won, after which even worse atrocities followed. Some reds escaped across the border into the USSR (like Kuusinen), others were just shot and a large amount of both combatants and civilians were put in internment camps where thousands would die from starvation and disease.
More Finns eventually died in the civil war than in the winter war.
- The tanks are T-26s. Based on the British Vickers-6t of that 1930s era.
- The grease thing is because of the cold yes. It was common for the rifles to just freeze and stop functioning.
- The Swedes sent a lot of supplies and a bunch of volunteers arrived, but officially, not much. Sweden was afraid of both the Soviet union and Germany and they were, like Finland, severely underprepared for war.
- There were French and British plans to aid Finland by landing troops in Norway and having them march across Sweden into Finland. Safest and shortest route. The Baltic was controlled by the Soviets and the Germans, that wasn't going to work in late 1939-1940. That's why it mattered that both Sweden and Norway declined, again both afraid of the superpowers.
In this case, the British plan was just a lie to take control of the Swedish iron ore so even if it materialized, no troops would ever have reached Finland. Just dishonest politics using Finland to their advantage.
- I believe those Soviet fighters are supposed to be Polikarpov I-16s.
- The anti-tank gun is probably a 37mm bofors gun but this is a guess.
- Finland is pretty much flat. Old sea bottom for the most part. There are some mountains in the far north but most elevated points were ground into sand by the ice sheets during the ice age.
Hey Baltic Water thanks for watching the video and for yet again provide lots of helpful information. I only ask so many questions as I'm interested in learning about the background - as they say context makes everything and lack of context is a dangerous thing as well as it can lead to serious misunderstanding.
a) I actually read up on Lathi tonight given he had such an influence on so many weapons that were used in this and the continuation war - very interesting read actually.
b) Believe it or not - you can probably still see it in the comments on the Unknown Soldier but about 10 different people said that Finnish Terrain was not suited for artillery which I never bought to be honest but I was told I was a moron. Thanks for clarifying it though as that makes a lot more sense.
c) That's really interesting to read that background as I didn't really know much about it. Similar to yourselves - we had a similar situation where more died in our Civil War then the war of independence. There's a fine line between love and hate as they say and when it's a stranger, the viciousness doesn't appear to be as severe - I presume because it feels like more a betrayal in a Civil War when you are dealing with an enemy who is supposed to be a brother so the revenge tends to be more vicious as a result.
d) Thanks - a few people in the live chat mentioned they were T26s and T27s
e) Interesting - unfortunately People do tend to be short sighted when it comes to their own interests - particularly Politicians - to be honest that is why I don't have a lot of faith in the EU Defence Pact - I could see a lot of Countries if push came to shove - going it's not our problem.
f) They are not called Perfidious Albion for nothing - that's all I can really say on that as nothing you have outlined surprises me.
g) Others have also said the same in relation to the plane and tank model so I believe you are correct.
h) Thanks mate - yeah I hear you - someone in the live chat said to me if I want mountains I should visit Norway ha ha
The Erkkilä's PTSD attack is more interesting when you know that he is most likely the half-brother of Martti and Paavo Hakala. Its revealed in the conversation in the tv-show version of this movie when they are in the train traveling to the front that he is most likely the result of an affair between Martti and Paavo's dad and a maid who was Erkkilä's mother. So in that scene Martti is not just trying to stop his comrade of arms running to his death he is in fact trying to stop his own brother from doing so.
Thanks Wezqu for watching the video and for sharing that information. I am aware from other commenters here that there is a longer 4.5 hour version of this movie in a mini series format. I do think though that the scene you mention is in this movie as well - at least I seem to remember it but it is a couple of weeks since I did the reaction so I could be wrong.
It's very cool how in the company, all the other, younger soldiers, whether they're a private, a sergeant, a lieutenant or even one of the higher-ups, refers to Ylli (the mustached older Civil war vet) by his first name and in a quite a familiar tone, because these people all know each other in some capacity from their civilian lives back home, and Esko Nikkari was very good at portraying those kind of no-nonsense, firstname basis people
Yeah I did like that and similar to Rokka in the Unknown Soldier he didn't have any time for what I call useless authority. To be honest you would get NCOs like that in today's Irish Army which is why I felt affinity - particularly to Rokka in the Unknown Soldier. Unfortunately poor Ylli didn't last too long in this Movie for me to build that same affinity.
The Finnish army had dedicated runners as well. At least in certain battalions. My grandfather was one. He got wounded in both Winter War and the Continuation War. He was part of the Jaeger Battalion 1 or JP1 also dubbed the Marshall’s Submachinegunmen. Their battalion was fully outfitted with Suomi-submachineguns gifted by Mannerheim. They were the unit that advanced furthest toward east in the continuation war. During the retreat he got shot in the back, but he was the only soldier in the unit who hadn’t already got requisitioned a new aluminium field kit. The bullet hit the kit and got lodged in the wass of the cast iron kit. He saved the bullet as a lucky charm. He got wounded in Tali-Ihantala while swimming across a river while delivering a message to a sector with cut off communications line.
It’s strange how differently soldiers react to war. My runner grandpa would endlessly repeat the same war stories about JP1 whereas my other grandfather who was a sapper in both wars never said a word about the war.
Hey Tesah, thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing your Families stories. I read that with interest and respect to both of your Grandfathers for their service and their bravery. Runners have one of the most dangerous jobs in battle and it's not something I would fancy doing myself so respect. Soldiers have different ways of coping to be honest and from my perspective a lot of it has to do with survivors guilt particularly if you don't like talking about your experiences. You basically just feel guilty that you are here and those that you left behind are not and you have no good reason to explain it. It can make it hard to talk about. On the other hand, some people need to talk about it and use the telling of their stories as a way of remembering and respecting their lost ones and indeed as a form of therapy for themselves. It has more I think to do with the nature of your own make up and coping mechanisms how you react. Have a good evening.
Is the runner viestimies? If it is, my grandfather was that too.
Actually there is a story he was one of Mannerheims runner (lähetti?)
@@susanner.8587 I’d translate it to taistelulähetti. Viestimies can also refer to the guys responsible for the radio groundlines and radio traffic.
Finnish Army had artillery but not too much, what they mainly lacked was ammunition. With Winter War experiences, things were different in Continuation War, both in numbers and ammunition.
Thanks Sardaukar for watching the video and for sharing that information in your comments. I appreciate it!
I had an unexpected reaction. I have seen this movie many times, but that's ages ago. So now, in the scene where the Hakala brothers leave and their mother is asking the older one to look after his little brother, it just broke me down. I have two sons and suddenly it struck me, how utterly devastating it would be to send them to a war.
When you are young, war movies are about heroism, the good and the bad, guns, tanks and action. Once you get older and maybe have kids, the meaningless destruction and unnecessary suffering of ordinary people becomes almost too overwhelming to watch.
Thanks for sharing your reaction Kallenic. I totally get what you are saying - when I was young and joined up I was full of glory and honour seeking - typical young man bravado. But I had a great Quartermaster in the reserves before I went full time. He had done 20 years service and seen lots of action on UNIFIL missions - particularly South Lebanon. He thought me the job of a Soldier is not to kill but to preserve life and killing is literally the last resort. He also thought us that when you kill, you don't just kill that person, you kill every single generation that would come from them. It's a profound idea when you think on it. It was because of what he thought me that I made it through the regular interviews and ended up in Officer School. Most of my reservist colleagues including the NCOs didn't make it as they never learned those lessons.
War is horrible and battle is terrible but strangely quite addictive. It's actually hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it - but the 'high' you get when you survive and have a successful engagement is comparable to nothing else I have experienced. I also think that is why so many Soldiers end up doing multiple tours despite the risks. There is also the brotherhood which you don't get anything close too in civilian life.
But like you, I agree that war is only glorified by the young, the naïve and the psychopaths.
@@JTRetroReactions your Quartermaster made excellent points. Naturally, just like pretty much everyone here, I have been to the military, but equally naturally haven't experienced war, for which I am grateful. However, at this age, this movie is hard to watch, since it very much reflects the experience of my grandparents, as well as my parents, who were small children around that time. According to grandma, my father stuttered for a long time, out of the shock and fear from nearby air raids. They had to leave their family farm, of many generations behind and start a new life in the west. And my grandpa from mother's side was on the front. His youngest brother got killed, apparently the only one who had any chances of getting any kind of higher education degree around the time. Grandpa never forgave the Russians for that.
Tanks and planes are cool, but man, the business they get used for real is just rotten.
Hey mate - thanks for sharing those stories of your family which I read with interest. My own grand uncle who I met when I was very young as a Galipolli survivor from WW1. He was considered odd and he never left his house and was a recluse. He was well in his 80s when I met him. Years later long after he died, I did research and found out he and his brother had both served in the Connaught Rangers and have been involved in Galipolli attack. His brother died charging a machine gun nest and was awarded the Georges Cross. The surviving Brother was also awarded the Georges Cross for bravery - the reason why were lost. However he came back a total mess at the age of 20 with what we would now call PTSD and spent the rest of his life inside his house never wanting to leave and barely able to talk.
Of course PTSD wasn't recognised as a thing so he was just considered odd - his whole life ruined by those couple of weeks of Battle. I feel real sadness when I look back at him.
One reason why these movies don't show much Finnish artillery is that, though Russia used an insane amount of artillery at the front, it wasn't very effective. Finnish used it more sparingly, but more strategically.
Thanks Zelurstak for watching the video and sharing that additional information. I appreciate it! Have a good evening
This is great, havent seen this one for ages. Looking forward to see your reaction to this. Its the date today when my country was under attack back then -39. Grandpa injured seriously and remember the story that once he came back, first thing was he bent his rifle and never used a gun anymore.
Thanks Kimizimi - I appreciate you saying that. Thanks also for sharing your Grandad's story. I'm not surprised at his reaction - the only People who glorify War are those who never fought in it or those who have psychopathy. I hope you enjoy the reaction and I do the Movie justice. Have a good evening. Cheers.
I once asked the Finnish National Archives if I could recommend this movie to some UA-camrs to react to and they said that it's ok. I then sent the link for the movie to some of the tubers I followed but none of them would react to it - only one answered and it was "No.". You sir are my new favorite! I have watched your earlier reaction videos including The Unknown Soldier and I can't wait for this to happen! "I am beyond excited" :D Talvisota tells a story about a company gathered from (and around) my home town so it hits deep and hard. Greetings from Finland!
Thanks mate. I really appreciate you saying that! Thanks also for sharing that background to the movie and its importance to you. Honestly most YT people only care about clicks and views and not the subject matter they do. I only started this channel because I love Cinema and good TV and money / popularity is not important to me at 47 yrs old. If the movie or series is good quality then I don't care about its age or language. I'll react to it. Glad to have you onboard mate and thanks for watching the videos you have so far. I hope you'll enjoy the Talvisota reaction. Have a good day.
@@JTRetroReactions I really enjoyed the reaction to both parts of Talvisota movie! I like your view on videos that if it's good, you will react to it (F the money and popularity)! The premieres were intense and you really engaged with your audience - that was wicked cool! Can't wait for more reactions from you! I might have subscribed to your Patreon because of this ;)
Thanks mate - I really appreciate you doing that. Hopefully I can live up to the high standards - I will do my best. I tend to only do premieres for Movies and not for the TV Series but I'm open to that too - also you are getting a special privilege or being able to select one movie a month for me to react too - as you were the first member at that tier. Everyone else that joins will get one choice a quarter - so when you have had time to think let me know what your first choice is mate.
16:16 You were asking about the clothing. In Finland we know this as "Model Cajander". It is not about that they were fastly gathered but by poor political choices in 1930's. Aimo Cajander as a prewar prime minister was one of the reasons why Finnish army and its reserves were not well enough equipped and Finland didn't get enough modern military equipment 1937-1939. At least Finnish army at that time was able to give emblem for the troops..
Hey Anttis - thanks for watching the video and for answering that question - that explains it then - I appreciate the information. Have a good evening
My grandpa name was Jussi, medical sergeant, served 4 years in the wars. Never complained about anything, The war hardened the character, While alive he said that Russia will try Finland a third time before it is torn apart internally finally.
Hey Viimasa thanks for watching the video and for sharing your Granddads story - I appreciate it! I don't think Russia will have much left of it after Ukraine the way things are going and even if they were stupid enough to try Finland again - they would have NATO to contend with now and the EU through the Defence pact - it would be a bad mistake on their part.
I'm not Finnish mate and Russia has a very long history of invading other countries despite pretending otherwise. Do yourself a serious favour and read Albert Speers autobiography. He was the only senior Nazi leader to say sorry for his role in the Nazi regime. The reason I say to read it, is he wrote that book 20 years after the war after spending many years trying to work out how German Society had become what it did during Nazi times. You will see a lot of similarities with how modern Russia has gone today. An autocratic leader monopolizing church and media and rewriting history books. Using excuses such as we need to protect our people in other lands. Any of this sound familiar? Read it and learn because your society is heading to dangerous territory
Mate you are deluded. The Russians genocides ethnic Finn's in the 30s so what goes around comes around its called Karma. We in Ireland dealt similar retribution to the British who also thought they could do what they wanted to their smaller neighbours. At least the British grew up whilst Russia is still stuck in the early 20th Century. I also know very well the history of Ukraine and how Ukrainians are the Kiev Rus whilst modern day Russia is a mix of Mongols and Slav but of course that doesn't suit the Russian narrative. Keep going the way you are as Russia is destroying itself. Your population is in terminal decline and what young men you do have you are destroying in Ukraine. In addition to having the highest amount of AIDS and having a state controlled media and state controlled history. If you cannot see that Russia is doomed by its own actions you have no right to criticise anyone elses intelligence
Again you show yourself as uneducated. Russia has a higher Muslim population then any European country and indeed has a serious Gay issue in its armed forces. I can send you links to several webms if you like. Immigrant's are being pushed to Europe by Russia funnily enough so why do you facilitate that. As they say how do you know a Russian is lying.... They open their mouths just like you did
What a surprise the only muslims you have an issue with are the ones that are not 'Russian'! Although the Daegastanis and Chechens might have a different view on whether they are Russian or not! I also noticed how you fail to mention that I was right in everything I said as well - interesting! And now you are trying to deflect - sorry mate - it is not working. The current Russian Government is a cancer on the World - I have a lot of time for Russian People but while they let themselves be willing led by a corrupt and violent dictatorship they are responsible for their own fate. There is a reason 90% of the World is against you and it isn't because you are right - it is because you are living in a dreamland that doesn't exist and a time that has passed.
This movie was really big thing when it was released in Finland. Before that it was not so ok to glorify the Winter War ( due having high priority on keeping good relations with our big neigbour)
Hey Janko - thanks for watching the video and for sharing that Background. I know Finland had a difficult balancing act to manage there for many years but at least now you can celebrate your culture with joy and not have to worry about what next door things anymore :) Have a good evening!
Winter War was especially brutal with cold weather. At times they were fighting in temperatures between -30 to -40 celsisus. I dont think most of us current finns could take temperatures as cold in a war since most of the finns who fought in the winter war were farmers who had hunted and done hard manual labour since they were children. The machine gun is: "The Suomi KP/-31 is a Finnish submachine gun that was mainly used during World War II. It is a descendant of the M-22 prototype and the KP/-26 production model, which was revealed to the public in 1925. It entered service in Finland in 1931, and remained in use until the 1980s....The Suomi KP/-31 is regarded by many as one of the most successful submachine guns of World War II."
Hey SliceofHeaven thanks for watching the video, for your comment and sharing that information with me. I appreciate it! In my reaction to the Unknown Soldier I made a similar comment about them being farmers as I come from a Farming background and I think I said something along the lines that Farmers are the toughest people you will ever meet as they are built from pure raw strength and not gym muscle or words to that effect. I actually found out about the Suomi in my Unknown Soldier reaction and have read up quite a bit on it since. It was a great weapon of its time.
Sweden not allowing british troops to march through their territory was an important desicion because it prevented any actual troops from britain or other countries that promised help to actually come here.
But they had a good reason to do that. they did not trust the british back then. See british troops were supposed to land in Norway and march through sweden to Tornio, Finland. They promised a division or 8000 men or something like that. But the swedes suspected that they just wanted to take the mines in Kiruna to deny the nazis whatever it was that was mined from there. And in hindsight it is known that the british troops only had marching plans up to Kiruna and no further in reality even though it is not confirmed they just wanted the mines. This was just recently found out.
Some people still blame the swedish government of cowardice for not allowing the british troops to cross, I too was taught that in school as a kid. In reality sweden did a lot to help finland, they raised a lot of funds, many volunteers came to fight and the air defense of lapland relied entirely on swedish volunteers flying their fighter planes to intercept russian bombers. Official swedish government did not participate in the war but they allowd their own air force volunteers to fly planes from swedish airfields to intercept russian bombers with 12 fighters and some recon planes and 270 personnel.
Hey Henriniemi thanks for watching the video, the comment and for providing that additional context on the Swedish Involvement. They don't call Britain perfidious Albion for nothing. I mentioned in other comments that both Britain and the US threatened Ireland with invasion during WW2 even though we were neutral as they wanted our Sea Ports. Our Prime Minister told them to F Off and luckily they did not follow through on their threat or we would have had to ally with Germany on a similar basis to you guys - the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So their actions above does not surprise me in the least.
6.12 is Finland's independence day. My mother's brother joined the Finnish army as a minor and served in the Winter War. My father and his brother joined the Finnish army in -42 they fought the Karelian Army. fought in Winter and in the Continuation War and in the Lapland War, they saved Finland and rebuilt the country after our wars. And Finland is the only European country that fully paid the war reparations to the Soviet Union
Hye p.helenasarkela - thanks for watching the video, the comment and sharing that information on your Families personal stories of the war - I read it with interest and I appreciate you sharing it. Respect to all of your relatives for your their service and bravery. Have a great Independence day and enjoy!
Light machinegun was Lahti-Saloranta M26.
It was so fine gun that grain of sand could break it.
This is why finns stole as much of Dp27s from russian as possible, so much that Dp27 became default light machinegun over 60s and got nickname Emma.
Thanks Redfizh for watching the video, for the comment and for sharing that information. Another commentor also mentioned to me that the mad for the Lahti only held 20 rounds which is pretty much useless for an effective MG - similar to the BAR in that sense - one squeeze of the trigger and you would have to reload. Have a good evening.
This movie is quite rare, as it depicts the wild rumors that go around when accurate information is very limited. The people could only read a few newspapers and a few moments of radio news a day. Thus there is a lot of room for rumours that get wilder and wilder as the story is told a bit different each time it goes forward. For example the guarantees from sweden & USA, or the different places the unit is said to be heading. These rumours are very typical of memoirs or diaries of people in earlier wars. Also for ww2 veterans from other countries
Thanks for watching and for sharing that information which was very interesting and true to life - much appreciated!
I can't wait!
Thanks mate - as I posted above but after your comment - this is the full length Part 1 reaction premiere which I normally only release on Patreon so it's 1.5 hours long - the second part which is 1:45 Hrs long will be released later in the week. I look forward to chatting to you there - thanks again!
@@JTRetroReactions OK I saw that post now. Wow, this is great. I'm honored that you show such a respect for our independence day!
We will see this movie on tv 6.12. and I will watch it once again, but it is great to see this reaction from you before that.
I appreciate this.
Your welcome mate and no problem - I'm delighted to do a small part in respecting a fellow small nation that had a great struggle and showed great bravery and resistance in getting and maintaining their nationhood!
Otto Wille Kuusinen was a Finnish communist, who made a political career in the Soviet Union. When the Soviets invaded, one of their pretexts was a Finnish Communist shadow government they set up with Kuusinen as it's PM, who they signed a bogus treaty with, made seem like Kuusinen and his "Finnish government" asked for the USSRs help in setting up a people's republic.
Ah the old bait and switch - a fairly typical Russian tactic right up to the modern day. So Kuusinen was basically Finlands version of Norway's Quisling - nice! Did he get captured and executed after the War?
O-W Kuusinen fled to the Soviet Union in 1918 after the War of Independence. He rose close to those in power and even managed to save his life during Stalin's persecutions at the end of the 30s. Was close to Stalin. Kuusinen constantly tried to organize a communist revolution in Finland. However, he worked all the time in the Soviet Union and did not come to Finland. Kuusinen's shadow government also worked there. So he did not have Finnish citizenship after 1918. After the Continuation War in 1944, Kuusinen's daughter Hertta Kuusinen arrived in Finland and was elected as a member of parliament as a candidate of the communist party (the communist party was again allowed in Finland in 1944). Hertta continued the same work as Otto-Wille, i.e. the goal was the communist "democracy" of the people, luckily he did not succeed in that. O-W died in 1964 as a fully-served member of the Soviet Politburo.
Thanks rihioja for watching the video and for all of that background on Kuusinen - very interesting to read and lucky for Finland he was never successful! Have a good evening.
Finland was very low on artillery and ammunition in winter war, also in continuation war. But the artillery was very accurate. In the winter war Soviet Union used as meny artillery ammunition in two days, than Finland in whole war.
Thanks Antropeda1 for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information on the Artillery which I appreciate! Have a good day mate.
Great reviewing! Thanks for the channel. This film went to cinemas on 50th anniversary of the beginning of the Winter War. I had already read the novel by Antti Tuuri, "the Winter War". So the anticipation was huge back then. Thus I, 15 years old then, sat in a cinema on that very eve on 30th of November 1989. The Winter War was the most expensive film ever done in Finland until then.
I'm a historian by education. So a few comments. The Finnish army was poorly equipped when the war began. That was purely due to the lack of money. And some ministers of the cabinet not believing that there will be a war (thus the poorly equipped soldier was named as "Model Kajander". Kajander was a minister who did not beliave that the war would break out). However, it doesn't mean that the army was put together hastingly. Actually the draft system was very effective. Btw, religion wasn't a big motivation for the most. It was mostly the will to defend the independence of Finland. And yes, the dialects of different parts of Finland are very different. However, we all Finnish speaking Finns (there are some 5 % speaking Swedish as mother tongue) understand each other quite well.
As for the Swedes, the official Sweden (government) did stay neutral and stood out from the conflict. But there were around 8000 volunteers taking part to Winter war and fighting on the Finnish side, naturally. "Why wouldn't Sweden allow the Russians walk through their lands". By that the speaker ment that Finland used to be a part of the Swedish kingdom ("Sweden-Finland", if you will) from around 1150 to 1809. So he hinted to a thought that some Swedes might still see Finland as kind of their own terrirory. Quite an odd line anyway.
Otto W. Kuusinen was one of the red leaders of the civil war who was expelled/escaped to Russia in 1918. Stalin named him as the prime minister of the communist puppet government (of the "Socialist Finland) set up in Eastern Karelia (on Soviet/Russian side) on the eve of Winter War. Had the Soviets won the Winter War, O. W. Kuusinen would have been the Prime minister of Finland. Luckily they didn't.
Hey Terokallio - thanks for watching the Video and for your very kind comments which I greatly appreciate! Thanks also for all of that additional information and context you provided on the war and the Finnish situation with regards to that War - I really appreciate it as I'm a big fan of military history and love reading and learning about stuff like this. So it sounds like Kuusinen was the Finnish equivalent of the infamous Norwegian Quisling - thankfully history has shown the right side won in these wars and now that you are members of NATO, hopefully you will never have to go through the likes of this again. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Finnish had a Finnish White Guard left from the Civil War. The Whites won. Many men had training from F.W.G. and they had their own guns and uniforms. And most of the Finnish troops were peasants, knew how to shoot, how to ski, how to move in the forests etc. And some men didn't have anything, no experience with firearms, no hunting skills. But most had some experience.
Hakala is a Finnish surname.
Thanks bloodgoat for watching the video, the comment and for the information you shared. I only really found out about the Finnish Civil War from doing this and the Unknown Soldier reactions so it was interesting to learn.
the makers and director of the saving private ryan movie, they watched this movie and had big influence on making the saving private ryan, in way of realism and brutal scenes.
Thanks mate - I didn't know that and I think I have mentioned before that I was an extra in that Movie as they used the Irish Army for the D-Day scenes etc. so now this Movie has a personal connection I wasn't aware of before so that is cool - thanks again for letting me know mate.
Actually Finland had artillery weapons, but they were short of ammunition just like Ukraine sadly is in the current war with Russia. That’s why nowadays Finland is one of the biggest artillery shell producers in Europe.
I hear you. Trying to fight with one hand tied behind your back is never good
In this time and age civil war was only about 20 years back. The aftermatch of that war was very cruel. Thousands of reds were executed after the war. My great grand dad was one of them. Those wounds are still in my family and are visible even today in modern Finland. Russia was not expecting Finland could be united, and were thinking the troops would be welcomed by many finns with open arms. Today we talk about cultural war and divisions in society, but those things are absolutelly trivial compared to it.
Thanks again mate for sharing that information - it's a similar story in Ireland with regards to our Civil War - now 100 years later are politics only starting to come around to non civil war parties.
My answer to your thought about Finland having to rely on the veterans of the civil war. Yes but mostly no. Most of the officers were ofcource veterans of the white army and even the jaeger movement (militart training in Germany during WW1). Still the common soldier was a conscript from all social classes. Their fathers had fought on both sides of the civil war. The winter war actually brought the ideologically divided population together to fight a foreign invader.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks Ollimollanen to you for watching the Video and for answering my questions - I appreciate it! I'm glad one decent outcome of the war was the reunification of the People after the Civil War. Every Cloud has a silver lining as they say.
The military was prepared and they organized big extra refresment trainings. Politicians (and common folk) was not expecting any war to start.
Thanks Pekka for watching the video and providing that information - I appreciate it! When are politicians ever prepared :) so that doesn't shock me and to be honest ordinary people always expect the best and usually get the worst so again that doesn't shock me to hear. I'm glad at least the Army had been doing the prep work and it obviously paid off! Enjoy your evening.
at:7.45 they called that poor equipment the Cajander model. A.J Cajander was Finland's prime minister before the winter war and he did not give enough funding to the defense forces, believing that the war would not start between Finland and the Soviet Union. some soldiers were really only given a cockade and a belt. but everyone still got a gas mask, even though it was needed throughout the war.
Thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information with me. I read it with interest. Thanks again and have a good evening
Paavo Hakala and Martti Hakala actors are reallife brothers Konsta Mäkelä and Taneli Mäkelä.
Hey Vellion - thanks for checking out the video and for sharing that information as I wasn't aware of that - it makes sense why that had such a strong brotherly feeling coming over on the Movie then - Part 2 will be out tomorrow at 6pm UTC. Have a good evening!
Martti Hakala is narrator of the book that the movie is based, so he is practically in every scene, except Paavos homeleave.
Thanks mate. Is he based on a real character similar to Rokka in the unknown soldier or is he fictional?
I think the character is fictional, but there are reallife characters like medic Jussi Pernaa. And also the colonel is real Matti Laurila.
Interesting - thanks for letting me know - so it's like the Unknown Soldier then with a mixture of fact and fiction or faction as we say in English. Have a good weekend mate
'Hakalan pojat' translates to "Hakala's boys" and refers to the farming estate they have. In the ostrobothnia region the family name was determined by the place, so a man or a woman marrying took the family name according to who moved.
Thanks Oozb for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information. That was fascinating to read as I never knew that - in Ireland the names in Irish related to a Family trait - for example my family name which is an ancient Irish name translates to Wine, Blood and Snow - basically we liked to drink, we like to fight and all of our hair turns white in our early 20s ha ha
@@JTRetroReactions
Basically in Finland "modern" surnames became law in 1920
Before that there were like roughly two different surname traditions (if we disregard surnames of old medieval nobility and surnames that were derived from military service in Swedish army)
In eastern parts of modern Finland where slash-and-burn agriculture was practiced and people kept moving people had similarish surname conventions like we do today, while in western parts of modern Finland where agriculture was more "sedentary" people used names of farms and estates as surnames.
Thanks again mate for that background and context - very helpful and appreciated!
Hakala - although also the name of their farm/estate - was at least from the 1920's also the proper surname of the brothers. The male surnames did not change anymore by moving to another location.
Officially, no. However, my father told me he learned the official name of his own grandfather at his funeral, because that name was not used by anybody. He died in the mid eighties, so while the law was changed earlier customs took some time to forget the estate name usage.
35:29 Finland has two official languages Finnish and Swedish. But the different regioins of Finland have different accents, some more distinct than others. You can often tell where someone is from based on their accent. My parents are from Ostrobothnia but I was born in the south so I have a mix of both of the accents. There is also a third unofficial language in Finland called Saami and it's spoken by the indigenous Sami people who live in the north. Fun fact they are the only indegenous people in Europe.
Thanks John - very helpful information - I have heard of the Saami before but don't know about them. I also only found out today that Swedish was also an official language of Finland - so as they say you learn something new every day.
@@JTRetroReactions Swedish has actually been a big talking point in Finland recently. People want to get rid of it because now that it is an official language, it means that every Finn has to learn it in school. Amongst young people especially it has become a problem because kids don't want to learn it, especially now that English is so prevelant in Finland. Most Finns speak fluent English so what is the point of learning Swedish, the Swedes you would be talking to also speak fluent English anyway.
I don't speak Swedish well but I do understand it quite well and can hold my own in a conversation for the most part but the majority of my friends don't speak it at all, even though we all had it in school.
That's interesting to hear John. Thanks again for sharing. I presume it's a left over legacy of Swedish colonialism or? If so I would agree. Time to get rid and move on as they say
@@JTRetroReactions yeah it's sort of an old reli from those times. When Finland was part of Sweden it was the official language of Finland and the elite. All higher-ups, politicians, businesses etc used it. Finnish was considered a bit of a peasent language spoken by the poor and uneducated. But I do not know why it stuck around after Russia annexed Finland. I guess old habits die hard.
Interesting. It's probably the fact that you mentioned that it was considered upper class and just became ingrained that way. Still it's probably right to move on now.
Finn here. About the mortars and artillery etc. Simply put Finland did not have almost anything equipment vice and most of Finlands tanks were those of we managed to capture and most of the equipment was the same. Finland asked help from the allied nations and it was promised but it never came only some swedish volunteers did come and estonians and such in some couple of hundreds or thousands and that's why Finland lost it's trust for the allies pretty much and that very much was also one of the reasons that Finland was with Nazi Germanys "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kinda relation in continuation war. And when you asked about why Sweden didn't let anything move through their land because they wanted to stay neutral.
Hey Rendoize - thanks for watching the Video. That explanation makes a lot more sense then the comments I was given about the Terrain not being suitable so thanks for sharing that with me. I did know about the Volunteers as I knew Christopher Lee was a volunteer in that war. I would not blame you for losing trust either - countries are often very short sighted in their views and go it's not at my door so not my problem - well that's ok until it is at your door but they never think that way.
So the Hakala brothers was from the Finnish White Guard and that's why they had uniforms and also made same army training and shooting. Otherwise the the soldiers were on "Model Kajander" where they got gun, belt and cockade from the army. Kajander was the minister who's responsibilities was the arming. They first task was the additional training (all troops was called to this) and they they moved from Seinäjoki to the Eastern border. These guys was from Kauhava. Infantery regiment 23 from 8th division. fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalkav%C3%A4kirykmentti_23_(talvisota) (in finnish).
Thanks TheSalamanteri for watching the video, the comment and for the information you shared. Thanks also for the wiki link. I will have a read through that tonight. Have a good evening.
Mostly soviet tanks in this movie is T-26 different versions... finnish light machine gun is "Lahti Saloranta" and soviet fighter plane is Polikarpov I-16 "Rata"
Thanks rhelenius for watching the video and for providing that background information - much appreciated! Have a good evening!
officers
small collar marks
1 second lieutenant (vänrikki)
2 lieutenant, lieutenant (luutnantti)
3 captain (kapteeni)
large collar marks
1 Major (majuri)
2 Lt. Col (everstiluutnantti)
3 Colonel (eversti)
the generals
at that time there was no rank of brigadier general in Finland
1 lion major general
2 lions Lt.-Gen
3 lions general
in addition, there was Marshal Mannerheim
About that bit about greasing the rifle: It is possible that some troops ended up to the front with rifles just taken out of storage and therefore were covered with storage grease. Hakala brothers would not have this problem as they had their own rifles and likely had had more time to prepare. That being said -40 celcius and any mechanical device behaves differently.
Edit: As for bayonets, there usualy were none. Finnish army didn't realy issue them.
Edit2: Issue with the guns may have been inproper handling. Not shown in the movie and i haven't read the book but it is possible that guns had been brought inside the dug out and any snow in them had melted. Unpleasant surprize when getting out of the dug out to repel enemy in the trenches.
Thanks Tommi for sharing that information, for watching the Video and the Comment. That makes sense what you say about the storage grease. As well, I have never trained in or fought in extreme cold but I guessed that freezing would be an issue but I wanted to ask to be sure. Another person also commented that there was a design issue with the breech which led to serious jamming and the Soldiers had to try and swap out those breeches with ones they captured from Russians - so it seems there was a mixture of factors at play.
Some others have said to me that the reason for no Bayonets was that the Soldiers from this particular region relied on the Puukko Knife instead - that was a name I hadn't heard from before this reaction. Have a good evening.
47:44 The Light Machine Gun seen here is a Lahti-Saloranta LS-26. It was developed by Aimo Lahti, who is the greatest Finnish firearms designer in history, with the technical assistance of Lieutenant A. E. Saloranta. In the 20's Finnish army wanted a support machine gun of its own and with wast positive experiences with the Maxim guns they made it a requirement that the machine gun should be recoil operated.
The LS-26 was a very accurate gun, especially for a machine gun but it was expensive to produce, it proved to have some reliability issues in field use (some of this can be explained with the crews not following the regulations of not taking the recoil assembly apart in the field) and the magazines weren't the greatest having only a capacity of 20 rounds. LS-26s were largely replaced in the Finnish service by captured Soviet DP-27s which are just lovely machine guns.
Thanks mate again for all of that helpful information - I really appreciate it! I just literally mentioned to another commentator that I have been reading up on Aim Lahti tonight since so many People have mentioned him to me and he seemingly was one of the best weapons designers of his day from what I have read.
I can understand a 20 round mag being a serious issue - similar to the BAR then - it is kind of pointless having such a low capacity mag for an MG - one squeeze of the trigger and your empty.
DP-27 wasn't too reliable either having feeding malfunctions and sometimes fireing failures such as firing whole mag full-auto without pulling trigger.
Thanks Juhani mate for the additional information - it definitely sounds like the Finnish Version of the BAR then - I am going to read up on the DP 27 and LS 26s tonight as they are not MGs I was familiar with. Enjoy your day.
@@JTRetroReactions Here's Forgotten Weapons' video on the LMG in question in case you're interested: ua-cam.com/video/7NQyYVpQoyQ/v-deo.html
Thanks for the link mate - much appreciated! I will look it up tonight as I would be interested in finding out more.
Fun fact about Talvisota movie... Every explosion💥💥 💥
what you see in this movie
...is real bombs and fire 🔥.
Thanks Mike - I know someone did mention to me that all of the effects are practical which is fantastic and give a much more realistic flavour to the Movie - I won't ruin it but there is some commentary around that in part tomorrow which will be out tomorrow at the same time. Thanks again for watching - have a good evening!
Lenin and Finland's independence
After the Finnish parliament declared Finland unilaterally independent by a bourgeois majority on December 6, Lenin recognized Finland's independence on December 31, 1917. Different estimates have been put forward as to why Lenin accepted the independence of bourgeois Finland. The most obvious are the ideological reasons written in Lenin's party program, which also led to a number of other countries - including Estonia and Ukraine - gaining independence from Soviet Russia. Lenin has been shown to have hoped for a revolution to break out in Finland, which would bring Finland back into the Soviet-Russia connection. The request of Finland's SDP may also have influenced the matter.
Lenin gave orders to deliver weapons "for the Finnish proletariat" on January 7, 1918 (10,000 rifles) and on January 17 (25,000 rifles) to the "Commissar of Finnish Railways". On January 30, 1918, in his closing speech to the All-Russian meeting of Soviets, Lenin declared that Finland was a peripheral power of revolutionary Russia and in a state union with it, on the way to the International.
In Finland, the people's democrats emphasized Lenin's status as a recognition of independence. Ideologically, those on the other side have considered it a falsification of history. The recognition of Finland's independence was not an end in itself for Lenin, but was primarily a means to facilitate the realization of the socialist revolution in Finland.
After the Second World War, the Finns, referring to the recognition, said that "Lenin gave Finland independence" so that his followers would not dare to "take it away".
8:54 The Fínnish 1918 Civil War was also called the Freedom War because Lenin's Bolshevist troops were driven away from Finland in that war. Finnish Reds were supported by Russians while the Whites were supported by Germany.
Thanks Jounisuninen for watching the video for your comment and for sharing that information on the Civil War. I didn't really know anything about the Finnish Civil War prior to doing this reaction but have learned lots from kind commeters like your good self who have shared lots of valuable information with me so thanks again.
The Swedish help wasn't much... but a lot for Sweden. Sweden was as unprepares as Finland, maybe more so. But Sweden did a but officially. Sweden didn't declare neutrality in the Winter War. It was normally illegal to recruit for foreign wars or militaries, but not for Finland. Swedish officers got permission to join Finland. All in aĺl about 8000 volounteered up untill the wara end. Not everyone arrived before the hostilities ended. Sweden sent almost all of it's artillery ammunition to Finland as well as a third of all small arms ammo. That meant problems for the Swedes just a year later, when the war surriunded the country. Since Germany were allied with the Soviet Union at the time, a lot of material went via Sweden instead, for example some US aircraft that was assembled in Sweden and flown over to Finland. Sweden sent a flight Squadron consisting of light fighters and bombers to Finland where they got the responsibility to patrol the whole north of Finland. Refugees and wounded were welcomed in Sweden during the war.
Thanks SteamboatW for watching the video, the comment and that additional information and context on the Swedish effort. I admit I got that part wrong but as I mentioned in my introduction, my reactions are genuinely first time where I say so and as such are based on the knowledge I have at the time which was little to none on the Swedish assistance to be fair. Your good self and many other commenters have been kind enough to share that information with me which I appreciate so thank you. Have a good evening mate.
Swede did help but npt much
@@828ekfkfkfdld8 At least you didn't run out of bullets.
most of the weapon question seem to answered nut the reason why the guy recommends swapping out Finnish locks to Russian ones in their rifles is because Finnish ones had much closer tolerances so while "better" they would jam much easier in those conditions. Finnish rifles were mostly re-barrelled mosins with new locks and great barrels
Thanks vaultdweller for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information. Another commentor also mentioned that there was an issue with the breech design which also led to jamming - it's probably the same issue you are talking about so the Finnish troops tried to replace those breeches with breeches from captured Russian weapons when possible.
Grease in really cold gets thick and white goo, even solid. When you fire the exhaust carbon infuses in this thick goo, turning it into grinding solid mass almost like slag. If you wipe your gun lock clean before operating in cold, you avoid having this grease-slag clogging your gun.
Hey TheRaybarg thanks for watching the video and for answering my question. Interesting - that's what I thought it maybe. I haven't really trained for cold weather fighting so not something I ever experienced myself but common sense told me it must be something like that. Have a good evening
1:13:15 The anti-tank gun is 37 mm Bofors. The tanks are T26, several models.
Thanks for watching the video, for the comment and for sharing the information on the Tanks and the AT Gun. Much appreciated. Have a good evening
It's great to watch these. The Winter War and Unknown soldier are huge part of knowledge from my youth.
After that I have learned and studied more. My Grandfather was in Continuation war and get wounded when Soviet Union attacked to Taipale in summer 1944. He was back in Lapland war and then they urge germans out from Finland.
Thanks for watching the videos. I appreciate it. Respect to your Grandfather to his service for his country
These soldiers come from western Finland and front is on the east border. We have a Swedish speaking minority but that is not any issue here. Dialects are as different as they are in England.
And religion, society was still divided (whites and reds) after the civil war. So, people were sensitive arond it. The winter war unified the citicens as one folk.
Thanks again Pekka and I could the hint of that legacy around religion in some of the comments on the 'Unknown Soldier' reaction I did. It was obvious there was a clear split in opinions on the role religion played and similar to yourselves in Finland - we can still feel the legacy of our civil war in the 1920s in our politics so I get it to be honest. It takes a long time for such deep wounds to totally disappear from society.
taking the breach out of enemy weapon was because they were loose and more used than finnish ones, they wont get jammed as easily when the dirt finds way in between there :D
Exactly mate - I just mentioned that on another one of your comments as I hadn't seen this one.
Im swedish fin born and raised in sweden but i go to to my family in finland every year my moms grandfather did fight in the winter war he whas killed.And my grandfathers brother did fight in
the continuation war he servied and he told me about the his war experience humble person he toke no pride in it he told me i did what i hade to do but i know abote michael collins and what he did for
Irland and yes the fins did use same taktik
Thanks for watching and for sharing your families stories. I appreciate it! Respect to them both for their bravery and service
That officer at 17:14 is colonel lieutenant. Called colonel when discussing
also in very beginning the rifle is not actually mosin-nagant either, it is finnish version of it and it was way better in many ways, like trigger mechanism, barrel and the legendary (maybe even the best in world) iron sights! that rifle is called Pystykorva
Ah okay - I must admit both in this Movie and the Unknown Soldier I was not familiar at all with the Finnish Weapons of the time - so again thanks for sharing that information with me - much appreciated!
1:29 Hakala brothers are from Ostrobothnia (Pohjanmaa) in western Finland. It's open and flat. Karelia is in eastern Finland, more wooded and that's where these guys are fighting.
Cheers mate yet again for that information. It was very helpful. Thank you
In 17:03 The Lieutenant Colonel is talking about the Mäntsälä Rebellion 1932 when the Lapua Movement which had some strong ties with the Finnish Civil Guard (This unit is also a Civil Guard Unit too) almost openly rebelled against the Finnish Government. The Lapua Movement was the main Fascist Party in Finland at the time but afterwards it was disbanded. A new party the IKL (the Patriotic Peoples Movement) would be established although it would never gain the same amount of supporters as the Lapua Movement did.
Also about the Swedes. The Swedes never promised anything for Finland but they did deliver a whole lot of equipment nevertheless and about 9 thousand Swedish volunteers joined with also some Norwegians. They basically transferred a small percent of the Swedish Air Force to Finland to loan (as far as I understood some Swedish docs). Also they took war refugees. To be completely honest without the Swedes providing equipment we might not have been so fortunate as we were in the Winter War. Also in Finland there are 2 official languages Finnish and Swedish. But the different tribes do have different dialects that are different but one from the other side of the country can understand definitely understand one from the other side of the country at least partially since Karelian can be difficult to understand which is its own language.
Hungary (although out of context) started recruiting volunteers to fight for Finland and 25 thousand Hungarians applied with only 400 being accepted. An understrength battalion was formed from them and they served in Karelia.
Otto Wille Kuusinen was the leader of the exiled/banned SKP who was the leader of Red Finland during the civil war.
Interesting mate. Thanks for sharing. I think you're the first commenter to share that information on the fascist movement and the Hungarian involvement so I appreciate it. In fairness fascist and communist movements were pretty common all over Europe at that time
It's funny you mentioned bicycles and the lack of them here. Finnish army used bicycles to a great degree and still does. My grandfather was in the army in the 50s and he spent his time in the grey as a bicycle mechanic. He helped me with my bike many, many times :)
Hey Gorgeous thanks for the comment, for watching the video and for sharing you and your Granddad's story which I enjoyed reading. Yeah it just struck me as odd not seeing any bicycles as they are usually a great mode of transport for Troops when other vehicles are not available or not suitable. Someone mentioned to me that it was due to the Terrain but where I made that comment, the Troops were marching on a road - hence why I made the comment. Have a good evening.
Thanks mate. That may explain it then
The idea of Brittish JEF was to land on Norway and march thru Sweden into northern Finland. Britts didnt want to send troops with ships. But as we know all these plans of outside help didnt happen. Ammo and old dated 1880 guns were send by Swedes, and also there were 8,260 Swedish volunteers altogether, of whom 30 died and 185 suffered injuries. 420 Swedes served in the air force, bringing 12 fighters, four bombers and a dozen of other planes with them. The 19th aerial squadron lost six planes.
Thanks mhh for watching the video and for answering my question - I appreciate it! So as other commentors have mentioned to me - there was no official help - lots of promises but nothing came of it and the only help really was that given by other nations people themselves. So short sighted of those nations as if Finland fell they were surely next in line - particularly Sweden
@@JTRetroReactions I recon the main reason of not aiding, was the fact, that over a nights sleep everybody expected Finland to fall in days, and saw no reason to get involved. Talk is cheap.
Similar then to what people expected in Ukraine - they only really started offering aid once Kiev didn't fall - history doesn't repeat but it certainly rhymes as they say.
those planes were miniature RC-planes. I once saw them in a model expo
Hey fidelisjk thanks for watching the video and for the comment. I presume you mean the planes used in the Movie :) They were really well done as I wouldn't have known they were miniature RCs unless you had told me. Thanks for sharing that information with me - I appreciate it!
The soviet union asked to loan some land from Finland for military bases. They did the same with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, those countries agreed and shortly after the soviet union annexed those countries. Finland refused so the soviet union attacked so it was somewhat expected
Thanks Tuha for that additional context and information. I really appreciate it! So basically they were doing back then what they were still doing today in Ukraine. Of all the old colonial powers, it seems they are the only ones who haven't moved on - quite sad really as they will be the ones who ultimately suffer for it. Thanks for watching the video and have a good day.
1:15:54 Breech talk is mainly about Finnish precision made breeches being really well made and tight that caused some problems with ice and sand making them easier to jam then more crude Imperial Russian and Soviet era breeches. Finland after civil-war and pre-war era captured and bought ton of Old Mosin rifles that they pretty much rebuild only keeping stock and lower half of the rifle while replacing bolt, barrel and sights.
Russian breeches are more crude, but they are also build with much bigger tolerances to fit into all the rifles build by multiple different factories in Russia.
Finnish pre-war M/27 and M/28 rifles were considered best Mosin rifles build at the time giving them superb accuracy with new barrels and breeches. Finland also produced ammo that had better quality overall and could be used by regular soldier and snipers as well. Soviet ammo was again lower quality and reason why Soviet snipers during war had their own rifles issued.
M/28 aka "White guard" version of M/27 rifle used barrels bought from SIG and later from producer that became SAKO who still makes Sniper rifles. M/28 was such a successful rifle that it Finnish shooters actually won quite a few international shooting competitions using M/28 rifles before war.
Thanks Sarfanger for watching the video, the comment and for all that helpful information on the rifles and the breeches issue - I appreciate it!
The issue with the breech concerned one model of Finnish Mosin Nagants the model M27. It had couple of ribs at the end of the bolt that slid into grooves in the receiver when loading the gun. The problem with that was that dirt or ice could get into those little grooves making the bolt action sticky or even preventing loading action. So these guys had been handed M27 models from the early production series as this issue was fixed in production by 1933. The field solution was to take a bolt without those ribs from the amply available stocks of dead Russians. Here's the Gun Jesus showing and explaining it in detail: ua-cam.com/video/46ZP9XH8bZs/v-deo.html&T=13min57s
The guys in the movie are from Kauhava in South Ostrobothnia which is a region known for its flat expanse. During the 1918 Civil War South Ostrobothnia was predominantly White. It's mostly farmland with forests, rivers, lakes and villages & towns in between. The little log sheds you see standing on the farm fields are for storing hay - they are not common today as animal feed is wrapped with plastic into those big white "cow's eggs". It's a beautiful country: ua-cam.com/video/BYJyEIpd4ZY/v-deo.html (song: A Morning on the Flats by Anssi Tikanmäki)
Thanks for watching and for letting me know about the breech issues - much appreciated!
Finland is comparatively flat country as we don't have any mountains. Northern Finland have some large fjelds, but that's it. That one scene where you asked how flat Finland was, was from Ostrobothnia and that is very flat western region of Finland. But I wouldn't call Finland's eastern forests flat as such, there are lots of hills and larger ridges formed during the last ice age, pocketed with many smaller and larger lakes.
Thanks Zelurstak for watching the video, for your comment and for answering my question - I appreciate it! Sounds similar to Ireland then - we have lots of hills, valleys and lakes but only really one proper mountain.
AT-gun was 37mm Bofors
Thanks mate. I should have known that one as we had one as a relic at my old barracks ha ha
Yes, Finland is a Lutheran country. Finns prayed a lot during the wars.. Many supernatural miracles happened in both the Winter War and the Continuation War. During the wars Finns relied a lot on the Lord Jesus!🕊🙏🇫🇮👏😀
Thanks Peter for all of the information you shared. I appreciated it
An extended tv version was also made, consisting of five episodes, each with a running time of around 55 minutes
Thanks EH for watching the video and the comment. So similar to the Unknown Soldier then as I believe there was a mini series of that as well. Thanks for letting me know.
@@JTRetroReactions Could be, there are three different versions of the unknown soldier
So I have been told as well. I believe the latest one has a mini series version which is 2 hours longer then the version I reacted too on Finnish Netflix.
I think this aired again yesterday in Finland national TV :) thanks for the reaction
Hey akse - thanks for watching the video and the comment. Yes indeed it did as I was informed during the live chat on the Premiere. I even know the channel YLE ha ha. It was not planned that way it was just a strange coincidence, May main goal was to get the reaction out before Dec 06. Have a good evening.
@@JTRetroReactions This movie has the cinema version as well as the miniseries version. The latter of course having a whole lot more scenes including a scene where they catch a collaborator working for the Russians by signaling to them with a lantern.
Thanks Hairysteed for that additional information and for watching the video of course. So it's similar to the version of the Unknown Soldier that I reacted to then - as I believe that also had a mini series version which was longer. That sounds like a good scene - I presume the few collaborators there were - were the hardcore Finnish communists?
That light machinegun is Lahti-Saloranta
Thanks mate - much appreciated - same manufacturer as the Anti Tank Rifles then.
@@JTRetroReactions Designers of that light machinegun were Aimo Lahti and Arvo Saloranta. L-39 antitank rifle and Suomi KP-31 submachinegun was designed by Aimo Lahti.
Thanks JPM - I have been reading up on Aimo Lathi tonight actually as so many people have mentioned him. A great weapons designer of his day by all accounts.
47:37
the weapon with bipod was a finnish made LS-26, Lahti Saloranta Light machine gun, or rapid rifle, as it was called in Finland
Thanks mate. I appreciate you sharing that. Thanks again for watching the video. A few people have mentioned about Lathi to me as an important weapons manufacturer so I'm going to look into him
Thank YOU for reacting to finnish war films, you will have a big niche audience from Finland. If you are curious about watching more of fine finnish war films, I recommend the film "Rukajärven tie" or "Ambush" as it's called in english (1999). It tells the story of finnish army team behind enemy lines in continuation war. It's a bit more "artistic" than winter war and unknown soldier but it's a good film. It might be even harder to get with english subtitles than winter war. @@JTRetroReactions
Thanks mate and you are welcome. You will be pleased to hear that I am reacting to Rukajarven Tie as it came second in the War Movie Poll to Talvisota. I always react to the Winners and Runners up in Polls. I had four polls running so I have to finish the last two winners and then I circle back to do the runners up so Rukajarven Tie will be the 3rd Movie reaction I release. First up are Das Boot and When Evil Lurks then Rukajarven. I have a copy on UA-cam that a kind commentator shared with me that has English Subs so thankfully I won't have to search Korea again :) Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
In fact, the cause of the Finnish civil war lies in two Russian revolutions. In Finland, right-wing politicians played with the Russians. In Finland, the labor movement had a simple majority in the Finnish parliament.
Thanks Harrilaamanen for watching the Video and for the comment. Was the other revolution the October Revolution or another one? I know there was several smaller revolutions in Russia throughout the early 1900s before the Bolshevik one
The February revolution which started the Provisional Government period, the tsar was kicked out of the chair at this point.
The October Revolution, the Bolsheviks came to power. Won the Russian Civil War 1918-1920. Then the Soviet era began.@@JTRetroReactions
Thanks mate for the additional information on the revolutions - much appreciated!
Finland had little artillery, even less ammos. Some artillery was made 1800's.
Nice reaction, it's been a while since I've seen the theater edition, usually it's the miniseries version nowadays. My mom is from the same area as this unit in the movie, and she insisted that we went to see this in theater. I think it's still the only movie with intermission I've ever been. A lot of people interested in this movie were getting old at the time, and three hours would have been too long in one sitting 🙂As someone mentioned, this movie was a huge change on how the war was depicted here in Finland. Times were changing at the end of Cold War. I think everything you asked has already been mentioned, but one trivia: early scenes where unit was equipped were shot at the very same place were original unit was equipped before the Winter War. Just an added touch of authenticity. Unfortunately that school burned down a decade ago or so. I'll watch second part tomorrow 🙂
Thanks for watching the video and for sharing your story and your families story with me. I read it with interest and appreciate it! Have a good evening
The light machine gun is a LS-26 Lahti-Saloranta M/26
The tanks soviet used mostly during the Winter War was the T-26
The Soviet fighter planes was the Polikarpov I-16
Finland had very limited numbers of AA guns, artillery, mortars, planes and tanks and vehicles during the Winter War, the numbers improved before and during the Continuation War
Sweden sent supplies, ammo and weapons. Since Sweden was officially neutral during whole WWII all soldiers and pilots etc. had to travel to Finland as volunteers.
Thanks TheApilas for watching the video and for answering my questions - I appreciate it! Have a good evening.
62 min. Stalin decide NOT use tanks in big groups like He was recommended and He did kill best officers before war. = We still have independence.
When it was cold and the gravel was buzzing,Russian rifle locks were better when they were loose.And gun grease was not allowed to be kept in rifles because of the severe frost.
That's what I was thinking re: the grease but I never trained for extreme cold fighting so asked just to be sure. Thanks for confirming
20:33 That is the Finnish Jaeger's march what the men are singing. As a song, it has deep roots as one of the songs of independence day festivities in Finland.
Thanks Kanervatie for watching the video and for sharing that background to the Song. It was an excellent nationalistic song from what I could tell from the translated lyrics - that's assuming I can trust the translations
Jääkärimarssi meni multa ohi? Vilppulan urhojen muistolle kuluu junalle mennessä.
Thanks again for sharing that mate - I will have a listen later tonight.
As for context, We southern ostrobothnians are usually a tight group. as the company here is. Also yes lutheran. My approach to religion is that it is there but it does not command my life.
Thanks for the additional information mate - much appreciated. Today indeed is a different story for many people but generally across Europe back then religion played a much more integral part of society so it would be more of a shock to me for a non-communist Country not to have religion play some role back then
Rifle called pystykorva, dog race, like up ear because aiming sight look like dog ears up.
Thanks mate for the information. I appreciate it
2 official languages. Finnish and Swedish.
many dialects that have been mixed up by modern times
About the artillery usage in this movie vs Unknown Soldier.
Why there were not much arty in some parts of Unknown Soldier is because the terrain was such that neither side could bring the arty in action. There were no roads in the deep forests the fighting was done in that movie. No real roads. Just woods with some paths. So the arty could not been brought there. This might be hard to grasp from Ireland where there are so few forests but in border areas of Finland and Russia there are very deep woods with no roads and Unknown Soldiers some scenes take place in these forests. And this is what the commentators meant when they said arty can't be used in these forests. Not that arty is not useful, because it is, but it couldn't be brought even in the 10km range because of the lack of suitable roads which could handle heavy artillery pieces.
Here in this movie Winter War the fighting takes place in agricultural are of Karelia Isthmus. There are woods yes but there are also roads and fields. So because it is not roadless deep wood area arty can be brought to the area and used. And both sides used arty but Finns have fewer pieces of artillery and acute lack of ammo which is mentioned. Russian had plenty of both but they used it haphazardly and even shot their own troops in time.
Lack of shooting at night 59:45 , Finns had limited ammo even for rifles so this limited "non-critical" shooting. Shooting at long distance at night is very very inaccurate. You cannot estimate distance well which is critical when shooting over 200m due the ballistic drop of bullet, you have difficulty to see where your shot lands and even knowing what is target is hard. It is discouraged even today for regular troops with standard rifles without night sights.
Hey Kukatahansa - thanks for watching the videos and for sharing that information on the artillery etc. I appreciate it! Enjoy the rest of your weekend - oh, in case you're interest Rukajarven Tie reaction will be out next week.
Ginland's got two official languages Finnish and Swedish. A few more minority languages are also spoken there, or were.
Thanks again mate - I never knew before this reaction that Swedish was an official language of Finland so again I appreciate you and all who shared that knowledge with me. I was aware of the Saami but not really any of the other minority languages. Cheers.
11:23 It was minor, actually, but the devil is in the details. The Soviets wanted four things:
1. Moving the border westwards in the Karelian Isthmus. The old Finnish border was some 20 kilometres from Leningrad, which the Soviets said was too close.
2. Some islands in the Gulf of Finland. These islands are on the sea approaches to Leningrad.
3. A bit of territory in the far north. It had nickel mines.
4. A lease for a military base on the Hanko peninsula in Southern Finland (about 130 km from Helsinki), plus transit rights to move troops there.
In return, Finland would get two municipalities in Karelia which it had tried to annex during the Russian civil war, which would be a large net gain in land area.
But like I said, the devil is in the details.
1. The bit of territory the Soviets demanded on the Isthmus would have made a hole in the Finnish fortification line, the Mannerheim line, rendering it useless.
2. The military base was suspicious. The Soviets also demanded military bases in the Baltic countries. They were granted that request, and those bases were used to take over the countries in 1940.
Finland didn’t want to render its best defences useless and let the Soviet Union station troops in the rear, so they mostly refused the demands. Finland counteroffered with some minor border adjustments on the Isthmus, but since it left the Mannerheim line intact, the Soviets didn’t bite.
Some time later, the Soviets staged the Mainila shelling, and used it as a casus belli to invade.
Hey Aakkosti - thanks for watching the videos and for sharing all of that information - that was really interesting and helpful. I think Finland chose wisely even if it led to War - as I believe that you are right in what you say - the base definitely would have led to annexation - we only have to look to 2014 to see that still happening today. We had the same issue in WW2 with both Britain and the US threatening us with invasion if we didn't give up three ports to them - our PM at the time basically said no - because we will never get them back and we fought too long and hard for them - so he called their bluff - luckily for us it didn't end in war but it was a necessary decision - us smaller Countries are often faced with such threats from bigger Neighbours unfortunately.
It's on the Finnish TV today 😀 Great movie.
Hey Ryokaleenkela thanks for watching the video - I only found out from a commentor yesterday that my release coincides with the anniversary of the start of the Winter War - which I didn't know - I was just trying to get the release out for Finnish Independence Day on Dec 06. I also presume that is why it is on Finnish TV this weekend. You are right by the way - great movie. Have a good evening.
Only private person helped Finland . Swedish state wanted to stay neutral . Some hundred volunteers came to Finland to fight and few airplanes with pilots.
Thanks mate for watching and again for the comments. Much appreciated.
the gun with bipod at 47:45 was Lahti-Saloranta M/26 light machine gun
Thanks Pukamafin for watching the video and for answering my question. I have actually read up on Mr. Lahti since doing the review - a great weapon designer of his period to be fair. Have a good evening.
In the 30s religion has been bigger in Finland but these days we are secular country and religioin is kinda whatever. I myself have seperated from the church years ago as I never was religious.
Thanks for watching mate and for sharing that insight - much appreciated!
finland has only 2 official languages, finnish and swedish, but we have a lot of different dialects which differs a lot from others some times, and you dont even have to travel too far away when you hardly understand the speak
Kind of similar to Ireland then mate - we speak Irish English which other English speakers even struggle with as we use lots of slang and Irish words in our English and within Ireland itself, there is different accents / dialects in every county and there is big differences between the North and South and East and West of the country where we sometimes find it difficult to understand each other so I get it.
I will write here a few examples from different dialects. for example, grandmother and grandfather are said quite differently in different parts of Finland. I always put grandma and grandpa in the same way so that the words don't get mixed up.
Isoäiti - isoisä, mummu - pappa, tummu - tuora, mummi - ukki, mumma - vaari.
the word rinse is called viruttaa in my home region. but the word viruttaa means on the other hand in Finnish, to stretch. this changing of word meanings creates real challenges in understanding what was meant to be said.
never heard of tummu-tuora :D
@@paulakuljunlahti
@@MrBanaanipommi tummu - tuora on käytössä Keski-Pohjanmaalla, Toholammin kunnassa 😉 olen sieltä lähtöisin.
enpä oo siellä käyny
@@paulakuljunlahti
The Finnish civil war was about Finland as a nation or joining Russia / Soviet ( I believe ) , The winter war - Finland wasattacked by Soviet - not unwaited. The continuation war - Finland and Germany tried to take back Finnish territory ( sort of) The Lapland war - The Finns war forced by the Soviet to run Germnay out of Finnish Lapland.
Thanks hightie for watching the video and for the additional information that you provided. So it sounds like the Civil War was more like what we had in Northern Ireland where there is a substantial British population which wish to remain with the UK vs the Native Irish minority. Our Civil War was more about those who accepted the giving up of Northern Ireland in the negotiations post the War of Independence vs those who wouldn't and wanted to continue the War of Independence. Anyways, I'm glad history has proved the right outcome was achieved in your Civil War.
Thanks mate for all of that additional historical context - it was really helpful in understanding the background to the civil war and the aftermath - much appreciated!
We don't use bayonets, we use knives.
A mistake imo as discussed in the comments but I've listened to the comments which explained to me the historical use of pukkos
Interesting to listen your opinions as an Irish.
Thanks mate. Hopefully I didn't offend
1:15:54 Russian weapons had bigger tolerances than the similar Finnish weapons. They were more sloppily machined so in subzero conditions their congealing grease did not affect the moving parts.
Thanks again mate for that information. I appreciate it
This is my favourite war movie. My family by my mother side is Karelian refugees and my grand dad and his brother was in that war. My grandfather died early 80's. I was young then and I remember that he never talked war itself. All I remember he liked western movie. In that war, there was lot more snow in the battlefield.
Hey Stranglehold - welcome to the Channel and thanks for checking out the video and for sharing your Family's story - I appreciate that! It's a common thing for returning Soldiers not to want to talk about the War basically because it is almost impossible to understand if you haven't been it in - that and it can often bring up more painful memories then good. Hopefully you got to enjoy a few westerns with your Grandpa though.
@@JTRetroReactions When I was a kid I never knew he was a veteran. Heard that when my mom told me years after. But I was so young and didn't knew these things. I remember that he looked at me somehow...strange.
Wow. That's some big thing to find out. He was probably looking at you as his hope for the future and praying at the same time that you never have to experience what he did. As am ex soldier who left comrades behind I can also tell you that when you have kids, I have no grandkids as yet, it also makes you think about what those you left behind have missed it on so it causes a bit of survivors guilt. I could be wrong but that's what I would suggest
@@JTRetroReactions I did my military service 1990. I still remember that day when we gave our riffles away. When I walked I looked at my riffle and think that I really could kill another human with this thing. That memory really touch me now. If war really comes, as I'm afraid, I don't know if I can do that. My granpa must felt same way 80 years ago.
Interesting you say that as I mentioned in my commentary about a study that was done after WW2 with the veterans and it turns out circa 75% of them aimed to miss as they couldn't kill. I was thought by my quartermaster who had 20 years service and had seen several engagements in UNIFIL. He thought me two things that never left me a) That a soldiers primary job is to preserve life and you do this by protecting civilians and only killing when no other option is left on the table and b) When you take someones life you not only take theirs but every generation that they would have produced so it is not one life you are taking it's hundreds if not thousands.
He taught us this way to make us understand that we had to try all options before pulling the trigger due to the consequences which are real and profound but when we did pull it we knew we had no choice because every other option had been left on the table and now we had to do it to ultimately save more life's then the one that has been taken. If you take these rules with you, I can guarantee you would be able to do what you need to if you ever have too because at that stage, not killing would be the greater of the evil left.
oh, yeah to the question at intro: russian invade was not totally surprise but how large it was, it kinda surprised.
Thanks mate - some other commenters mentioned about the politicians and population weren't necessarily expecting War but the army was and had been training / prepping for it - luckily for Finland you had a smart Army!
Soviet tanks were T26, Vickers copy.
Lmg was Lahti-Saloranta, Finnish Lmg
Thanks mate for the additional information - much appreciated. I actually read up on Lahti last night - a great weapon designer of his time
35:00
Offical lanquages are.
Finnish
Swedish
And 3 rhd is under special protection not offical Saami.
In Finland we mostly speak finnish but we have different slangs in certain areas.
Swedish speakers are in mostly finnish coast
Saami are in lapland
And rest of finland inhabited by finnish.
Just to make it simple to understand.
Thanks mate for watching the video and for sharing that information - much appreciated! Before doing this reaction I did not realise that Swedish was also an official language of Sweden so interesting to learn that.
Swedish people volunteers arrived winter war, also plane pilots from many countries. Official help from other countries, 0. Finland had some old Renault tanks, maybe not used or put in the ground, artillery.
93.35 church writing "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"