I love that the game includes a tiny, ultra-simple wargame. Point-to-point movement, area control, and the absolute simplest of combat resolution. That seems about the right weight for a game that is mechanically more focused on other aspects of the game.
I actually hate the map. It’s not area control because you don’t control to win. You just have to be there. It’s area presence, I guess. Also having the tie breaker basically be a sanded down part of one of the winning conditions makes no sense. This stays in my collection for now. But it’s a 6 out of 10.
@@nielsjensen6897 If you hate the map you may as well sell it now as it's integral to the game. Personally I love it, but I just don't see how you could keep it when despising a core aspect of the game. While not a 1/3 of the game, it's probably about 1/4 of the cards, and as it's an instant win condition it's gotta be part of your thought process on every turn.
The shields are open information :) The ring track couldn't look like that, because the Hobbits can't get further from the Nazgul - the distance between them can only decrease. So if the Hobbits move, the Nazgul moves too, and to avoid forgetting that (like, if you have two cubes on a track) this is a particularly delightful solution.
The track could look like Matt's mock-up with the win condition for Sauron being to reach the end-point - both sides have a win condition of "move a fixed number of spaces, regardless of how many the other side moves". The double-slide thing is a way to allow the thematic presentation of Sauron's objective be to catch a moving endpoint without their distance being affected - it's an important tool to allow the thematic presentation to work smoothly, but stripped of theme, it's just a fancy way of presenting two cubes moving up an identical track trying to reach the top first.
I'm curious as to why you said you think you "were wrong" about 7 Wonders Duel, and if you can remember why you felt that game was "merely alright", but you think Middle-earth Duel is a banger and gets the recommended badge, while having very much the same mechanics as 7 Wonders Duel + its two expansions (re-themed and slightly tweaked, of course)?
I think part of it was that the 7 Wonders review made eight years ago by people who aren't Matt. Quinns and Paul often prefer different types of games to Matt, so him having a very different experience with a game that many people already thought they were too harsh on the first time around isn't too suprising for me. The nicer presentation and theming probably helped it too.
I wonder if this might be an example of how theme makes a big difference in board games. Perhaps the theme of Lord of the Rings was what was needed to bring Matt around to the 7 wonders duel mechanics? I definitely get that most people would be more excited about picking up Gandalf the Gray than a scriptorium or something. Although I personally do enjoy the theme of the original since it's basically civilization the card game. @@nikosmessis
Having just rewatched the original review, the one complaint addressed by this new version is that there's no win condition determined by doing a bunch of math on a score card.
From playing it a couple times it feels like a streamlining and slight simplification of 7WD, thus making it more accessible, but still with a lot of tension. I think most people will prefer this version unless they’re really into 7WD with both expansions and/or are partial to the more involved economy and thus economic tension of 7WD (i.e., people who liked constantly calculating the changing resource costs based on how many of the resource players had and being able to effectively lock your opponent out of a resource, which is not possible here).
I'd always recommend Lost Cities for 2 people who don't really play board games, as its probably a bit simpler than this, but still has the delicious tension of choices throughout each round. However, this seems to me like something more enjoyable as a lighter, quicker game for 2 people who ARE boardgamers (and who like LotR). I didn't know this game existed before, but now I want it, even if it seems somewhat like a reskin of 7 Wonders duel.
fwiw having played a couple of games of this and already having a copy of the 7 wonders version i didn’t think there was enough of a difference to merit owning both.
Oh wow! I was recently considering getting the 7 Wonders: duel, and just now good LOTR version of that game has dropped. And I love LOTR! What a lucky timing
We're pretty sure Towers don't prevent conflicts, but they're not removed in the case of a conflict. The only ways to get rid of towers are on the ring track or with a specific token. "An enemy fortress does not trigger conflict and does not prevent you from placing your units in its region."
My favorite LOTR games is Battle of Five Armies. Because: I like wargames It's LOTR "lite" and can be played many many times whilst waiting for a big enough time window to play War of the Ring.
So the factions basically play the same except for the color and the track? Kinda expected abit more of a difference as people have raving how thematic this game is. Gameplay looks cool thou but expected more difference between the factions.
Mostly yes, but this apparently doesn't have victory points at all, and I think resource purchasing works a bit differently. And it looks like the bonuses for getting doubles of the same green symbol are a different set for each symbol rather than one open pool for all symbols together.
I am a bit surprised by this SUSD review. I am wondering if they took time to play the original with and without expansions before. Personally it feels like a reskin of the original game with a successful IP and a tiny expansion (area control) already included. I would tend to think there are more people in the world interested in ancient history and ancient gods than in LOTR + the base game of 7WD being simpler, I would definitely recommend the original vs the LOTR reskin to a new player. I do not think this game brings anything to the hobby.
Lies!! All lies! I mean... your review is spot on and the game is amazing but 20 mins? Get out of here! It would mean each player has less than 30 seconds to strategize and take a card or a castle, move money, place armies, choose tokens, assuming they know by heart every icon. Only maniacs do speedruns.
Dont get me wrong, its a banger. However i find it absolutely incorrect to praise this game, even giving it the badge, while the original 7WD has been called meh. That makes me think that you guys recommend it only for being a game with a LoTR theme.
You weren't wrong about 7 wonders duel, its not fun at all imo. This looks like a retheme of the exact same thing with a different war track. Meh. Pass.
I accidentally already bought this before the SU&SD review dropped. Do I watch this? Yeah I watch this.
"Accidentally"
Confirmation bias is what the internets is alllll about. I did the same🎉
Same!
I don't even buy the majority of the games they review (mostly because I can't afford it), but I still watch them.
Imagine they just start tearing the game to shreds, listing every flaw, and telling you all the games you should have bought instead of
"They used artists and designers" is sadly a surprisingly nice thing to hear nowadays.
That third round shape is a ring, but it's also the same as the original 7 wonders. I'm super fun at parties u guys I swear
I think that was the joke :)
I love that the game includes a tiny, ultra-simple wargame. Point-to-point movement, area control, and the absolute simplest of combat resolution. That seems about the right weight for a game that is mechanically more focused on other aspects of the game.
I actually hate the map. It’s not area control because you don’t control to win. You just have to be there. It’s area presence, I guess. Also having the tie breaker basically be a sanded down part of one of the winning conditions makes no sense. This stays in my collection for now. But it’s a 6 out of 10.
@@nielsjensen6897 If you hate the map you may as well sell it now as it's integral to the game.
Personally I love it, but I just don't see how you could keep it when despising a core aspect of the game. While not a 1/3 of the game, it's probably about 1/4 of the cards, and as it's an instant win condition it's gotta be part of your thought process on every turn.
9:25 Artists AND Designers! True opulence in our board games
LETS GO DEAR BOBBITS
0:38 jokes on you, I'm here because I'm subscribed and I hit the little bell icon
The shields are open information :) The ring track couldn't look like that, because the Hobbits can't get further from the Nazgul - the distance between them can only decrease. So if the Hobbits move, the Nazgul moves too, and to avoid forgetting that (like, if you have two cubes on a track) this is a particularly delightful solution.
The track could look like Matt's mock-up with the win condition for Sauron being to reach the end-point - both sides have a win condition of "move a fixed number of spaces, regardless of how many the other side moves". The double-slide thing is a way to allow the thematic presentation of Sauron's objective be to catch a moving endpoint without their distance being affected - it's an important tool to allow the thematic presentation to work smoothly, but stripped of theme, it's just a fancy way of presenting two cubes moving up an identical track trying to reach the top first.
@@leonardquirm You said it could look like, then you explained why it can't. There is nothing more to add, thank you! :D
When I buy a bg BEFORE SU&SD posts a review about it: LISAN AL GAIEB
11:27 Pronunciation so sharp its affecting the physical world...
"This is why you boardgames."
I prefer to think it was, "board games", and Matt was talking about climbing onto games and riding them around your home.
@@JCPRuckus This would certainly revolutionize how I onboard new people to their positions at work, so I'm in favor.
I'm curious as to why you said you think you "were wrong" about 7 Wonders Duel, and if you can remember why you felt that game was "merely alright", but you think Middle-earth Duel is a banger and gets the recommended badge, while having very much the same mechanics as 7 Wonders Duel + its two expansions (re-themed and slightly tweaked, of course)?
I think part of it was that the 7 Wonders review made eight years ago by people who aren't Matt. Quinns and Paul often prefer different types of games to Matt, so him having a very different experience with a game that many people already thought they were too harsh on the first time around isn't too suprising for me.
The nicer presentation and theming probably helped it too.
I also have the same question. It feels very weird to consider 7WD meh and 7WDLOTR a masterpiece.
I wonder if this might be an example of how theme makes a big difference in board games. Perhaps the theme of Lord of the Rings was what was needed to bring Matt around to the 7 wonders duel mechanics? I definitely get that most people would be more excited about picking up Gandalf the Gray than a scriptorium or something. Although I personally do enjoy the theme of the original since it's basically civilization the card game. @@nikosmessis
Wasn't he saying they might have been wrong originally calling 7W Duel meh, not the other way around?
Having just rewatched the original review, the one complaint addressed by this new version is that there's no win condition determined by doing a bunch of math on a score card.
From playing it a couple times it feels like a streamlining and slight simplification of 7WD, thus making it more accessible, but still with a lot of tension.
I think most people will prefer this version unless they’re really into 7WD with both expansions and/or are partial to the more involved economy and thus economic tension of 7WD (i.e., people who liked constantly calculating the changing resource costs based on how many of the resource players had and being able to effectively lock your opponent out of a resource, which is not possible here).
I'd always recommend Lost Cities for 2 people who don't really play board games, as its probably a bit simpler than this, but still has the delicious tension of choices throughout each round. However, this seems to me like something more enjoyable as a lighter, quicker game for 2 people who ARE boardgamers (and who like LotR). I didn't know this game existed before, but now I want it, even if it seems somewhat like a reskin of 7 Wonders duel.
I have such a bad need to take all of Vincent's games and just pin and frame them on the wall.
5:49 is a very good line actually
Is it a testament to my boringness that I find the 7 Wonders theming INDESCRIBABLY more interesting than this one?
It just means you like history
I think it means they like wonders. I'd prefer a 19th-century textile industry theming. I'm more boring.
I too dislike 7wonders duel. Seeing such a positive review knowing your opinion about 7wonders duel is making me consider buying this game
fwiw having played a couple of games of this and already having a copy of the 7 wonders version i didn’t think there was enough of a difference to merit owning both.
7 Wonders Duel is amazing! On BGA where they math out all the math out.
Oh wow! I was recently considering getting the 7 Wonders: duel, and just now good LOTR version of that game has dropped. And I love LOTR! What a lucky timing
Fantastic Nazgul joke! 😂
How many rings can they fit in that bin?!
“This is why we boardgamesss” love it!
"...Goofy style" took me a bit, but got a genuine chuckle out of me. Thanks.
The stock music at the start was an absolutely brilliant choice! so close to the original!
Arriving today. Delightful and whimsical as always. Thanks Matt!
Yeah keep recommending compile when it's sold out everywhere 😭
I saw GTG say five weeks or so for the next print run.
Saw it at my LGS this Monday.. didn’t get paid till tomorrow and they said they had tons in the back.
Just got told they’re already sold out
Ooo this looks lovely! My partner and I do already have the original Dual~ wondering if its also worth gettung this 👀
Great video. I'm looking forward to trying this game, as i both am a fan of the original 7 wonders duel and i love lord of the rings!
I was waiting... then you suggested Compile over 7 Wonders Duel. lol
Don't want to yuck anybody's yum, but Compile is amazing - perrrrsonnnallly I prefer it over 7WD
Yeah if you don't like this thematic reskin of this totally already existing game ... Buy this totally unrelated game!
WHAT?!
I'm excited to play some Revenge of the Bobbits: Sauron Boogaloo.
Just got this from my wife as an anniversary gift! I wonder if it’s any good.
It's great to see Matt fully embracing the Kurt Vonnegut phase of his middle years.
I was thinking "70s dad".
the shown layout of chapter 1 is actually the layout of chapter 2.
GOLLUM GOLLUM.
I love that this game doesn't stick to the movie to do its setting and marketing. It's refreshing to see a new take on those classic characters.
Well, wouldn't be the first time I've bought a second copy of a game because of Vincent Dutrait.
4:40 Tower prevents conflicts, the move you did there is not allowed.
We're pretty sure Towers don't prevent conflicts, but they're not removed in the case of a conflict. The only ways to get rid of towers are on the ring track or with a specific token. "An enemy fortress does not trigger conflict and does not prevent you from placing your units in its region."
"this is why we board games"
So … are there any games with an honest to god sliderule as a component?
I really miss the little sketches in your videos.
Nice recommendation for Compile. Unfortunately it seems to be unobtainable. 😢
Seems like a really lovely game :D all for the theming myself :) thank you for sharing
Love the look of this - fantastic review ❤
I don't remember the little map with meeple soldiers in it in the original 7w duel, is it a significant difference mechanically?
My favorite LOTR games is Battle of Five Armies. Because:
I like wargames
It's LOTR "lite" and can be played many many times whilst waiting for a big enough time window to play War of the Ring.
"Andrew Bowser" ;D
I cant access your website from Brazil.
God dammit, we just sold 7 wonders duel a few months ago
are we just gonna get it back
You say Lord of the Rings in 20 minutes, but the video is only 14? Where do I claim the other 6 minutes?
Just seems like an empty re-theming of 7 Wonders Duel. I have have that so there doesn't seem all that much extra to offer.
I found it different enough that I'm keeping both
Matt, are you being a bobbit, or did you just hurt your back and decide to shoot the video from beneath the table (yes, I'm the same age as you...)
If you connect all red cards together it all arcs (pun intended) into a beautiful battle scenery
Hell yeah, this might just replace 7Wonders for me.
Excellent. Time to wait for the inevitable mobile port. Heh Heh
So the factions basically play the same except for the color and the track? Kinda expected abit more of a difference as people have raving how thematic this game is. Gameplay looks cool thou but expected more difference between the factions.
So other than the veneer, like the pretty cool nazgul and hobit sliders, is this game a cabon copy of 7 wonders duel?
The war stuff looks pretty different for example.
just reskinned 7 wonders duel, right?
Yes, the win conditions are slightly different, but that's it.
Mostly yes, but this apparently doesn't have victory points at all, and I think resource purchasing works a bit differently. And it looks like the bonuses for getting doubles of the same green symbol are a different set for each symbol rather than one open pool for all symbols together.
Great review! I wonder if it's worth it getting since I already have 7WD+Pantheon?
I am a bit surprised by this SUSD review. I am wondering if they took time to play the original with and without expansions before. Personally it feels like a reskin of the original game with a successful IP and a tiny expansion (area control) already included. I would tend to think there are more people in the world interested in ancient history and ancient gods than in LOTR + the base game of 7WD being simpler, I would definitely recommend the original vs the LOTR reskin to a new player. I do not think this game brings anything to the hobby.
So long, A. Bowser
To buy or not to buy if you already have 7 Wonders Duel? ??
By this, sell the old seems to be the consensus I see.
1:23 Tolkien Tug...lmfao
Made even funnier by the fact it was said while referencing a review that includes a focus on 'Thorin's Mighty Strokes'
Lies!! All lies! I mean... your review is spot on and the game is amazing but 20 mins? Get out of here! It would mean each player has less than 30 seconds to strategize and take a card or a castle, move money, place armies, choose tokens, assuming they know by heart every icon. Only maniacs do speedruns.
Dont get me wrong, its a banger.
However i find it absolutely incorrect to praise this game, even giving it the badge, while the original 7WD has been called meh.
That makes me think that you guys recommend it only for being a game with a LoTR theme.
People with moustaches have a very creepy vibe. This is why I don't do Movember anymore.
Totally normal thing to say about someone.
You weren't wrong about 7 wonders duel, its not fun at all imo. This looks like a retheme of the exact same thing with a different war track. Meh. Pass.
wow, Matt's really pulling off his new crazy uncle look with that crazy 3:22 hair and mustache. 👏
“Nazgoals” drop was an absolute 👨🍳😚🤌 moment.
2:26, you set up the chapter one cards wrong
War OF the ring.
Real
2-player month continues
get some sleep, matt
SUSD has a new precious?
Matt Lees gets a +5 when reviewing Tolkien boardgames.
So why are the forces of good & evil backed up against each other on the cover of the game??
This review felt a little..... sensual
Gameplay looks great, but I don't find the theming to be great. Reminds me very much like Dune Imperium.
Quinns won the game by building a wonder. Quinns duels his own way.
It's a lame version of the original, why even bother. You issued the boat 1st time SUSD......
Horrible artwork, can't get into it. Disclaimer: opinion