Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Atheist Debates - You shouldn't say that word
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 лис 2017
- Warning: This video contains words that some folks might find objectionable. That's the point.
Part of the Atheist Debates Patreon project: / atheistdebates
Profanity, obscenity, naughty words...when you should and shouldn't use them. Know your audience AND your goals.
My 5yo daughter was told by another kid on the play ground she was going to burn in hell because she didn't go to church, apparently she replied with "piss off and leave me alone"; guess who got in trouble with the teacher for offensive language? (Hint it wasn't the kid who was proselytizing)
Thats extremely backwards. What a violent and offensive thing for a child to say to another child. I am so sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. Sounds like you got your poop in a scoop though and youre daughter stood up to the challenge. Good job mom
Your daughter sounds awesome. I can be fairly certain I would prefer to see her in a position of authority instead of the churchgoing leaders in the government now..... even at her current age.
Good for your kid.
Obviously condemning someone to eternal torture is not as bad as potty mouth.
@@beneath.the.rosesluciddrea8470 I have a similar experience, but the child is not to blame, it's the parents who have brainwashed and traumatized their childrens' developing and trusting minds.
A lot of people in the comments here need to realise that there's a difference between expletives and slurs.
You need more upvotes.
I would say most journalists and advertisers need to learn the difference between expletives and slurs.
Can someone tell me the difference between these two? The definitions seem to be the same?
@@adentravis in my opinion, an explitive is a word like fuck that has no real offensive meaning but a slur is a word like slut which has the primary use of causing shame, emotional distress, bullying or presenting a person in a negative light. So the n word is a slur & so is calling a gay person the other f word. I don't believe words like fuck are bad or shouldn't be used. The 2 slurs above I wouldn't use on the other hand bc I don't believe those words add value or have any use but to hurt people. Not bc they have magic powers but bc they had only been used for that purpose for so long that the word's connotation is a very negative one & only serves to demean, degrade, humiliate, bully or lower others & portray them as somehow less bc of traits that aren't bad. That I don't like. To me, that's the difference. If I say, "oh fuck I forgot", that doesn't make anyone feel like less than me or anyone else the way slurs such as slut seek to belittle people.
Here is the link to the video he mensioned ua-cam.com/video/AoUCHtGyoFg/v-deo.html
To censor words gives those words way more power. Normalize them, and they lose all their power.
I'm a simple man. I see words I shouldn't say, and I say them
This reminds me of... imgs.xkcd.com/comics/reset.png
🤣
👍
_"I see words I shouldn't say, and I say them"_
You absolutely should not say "Domonick Napoli tries to look like a rebel, because he thinks it's cool".
Stefan Travis it's a meme bro
My brothers and I were around 8 years old when we were casually throwing around the pejorative "faggot" without knowing it's meaning or the concepts behind it. My mom (my parents were both atheists) sat us down and graphically explained what it actually meant. That was our introduction to the concept of homosexuality, and we stopped using it after that. That is not to say there is anything wrong with homosexuality, and my mom explained that to us as well. But were were so shocked and awed by the concept at that age, and were brought up to be polite around mixed company, so we stopped using it so casually.
I believe my mormon and xian friends were handicapped in life because they were shielded from learning the meaning and concepts of parts of our language and discourse until far later in life. It's akin to raising a horse with blinders on constantly, instead of using blinders periodically for their intended purpose.
When my oldest was about 4 or 5 he said fuck, my wife looked at him and instructed him not to say it again. He asked why, my wife and I discussed it and we couldn't come up with a good enough reason for him not to say a word. As he has grown to an almost 10 year old, he curses better than most teenagers. He knows context, he knows when to say them and he knows that he can't say them in certain places. When we told him not to cuss around his grandmother (my mom) he asked why, all I could answer was that she had a crucifix shoved sideways up her ass, he laughed and has not done it yet.
good advice. I'll use this for my children.
I tried to encourage my son to not get into bad 'habits' regrding word use (ya know as a general thing) if you say swear words or any words really out of habit they will lose their meaning and impact. Just mah 2 cents.
Eric Mishima not really, for example fuck has many different meanings it can be an activity we engage in, I can say it in anger, "man fuck that shit", I can say it in excitement/joy, "oh man that's fucking awesome" no matter how many times you say fuck it will always hold some type of meaning
Be careful what you ask for... It is a good thing that societies have "words" that can be used to incite/emphasize /get attention/provoke..... Verbal communication is enhanced by nuance, emotion, word choice, and body language.... Context is important... society is a richer place when "special" words are reserved for special occasions/audiences .... A job interview or dinner with Mom, for example, is not the time to make the impression that you Don't Give a Fuck, about decorum or the signals you send..
Ultimate Despair Gamer perhaps I should have said contextual purpose or usefulness. And about habit I mean not being lazy of mind. And so you don't accidentally slip up in front of grandma lol The OP talked about parenting and I just wanted to add another little layer to that .. just ya know in general I'm totally not trying to be the swearing police ;)
Offence does not morally justify violence.
Personally I've always seen swear words as a means to give what your saying a bigger emotional impact thus you weaken the word if you use it too often. It gives a communication option that would not be there if used regularly.
I like to say as an atheist that these "slang" words have other meanings to them and they are not signs of disrespect its just a way to visualise our emotions depending on context and how you say them
Is this friend of yours by any chance named Deek?
Using sperm?
Other Student: "Sci-Fi is a subset of Fantasy."
Me: "Them's fightin' words!"
Actually said on the first day of a class in Science Fiction.
Great video!! Thanks for all you do Matt!!
If someone tells me that I’ve hurt their feelings, I say, “Well I’m still waiting to hear what your point is.”
~ Christopher Hitchens
Dumb quote from a smart guy. If you hurt someone's feelings, and they tell you, the point is that you are both humans. We do this thing called empathy. You're supposed to give a damn. I know, it's crazy concept. Caring about what others feel. You may decide that you're ok with hurting that person over that thing, but the point is perfectly obvious, and you should *usually* care.
There are people who apparently believe that emotion is just an inferior and obsolete forerunner of intellect. I think they are wrong. There are different kinds of meanings in emotions, not infallible (nor is intellect) but not merely an inferior and obsolete version of intellect either. The question of what someone is trying to do by living becomes artificially harder when one shuts out how one feels and/or how others feel and what that means to them, and tries to formulate a rule that disregards the purposeful and value-related aspects of emotion beyond abstract intellectual generalizations about its evolution and such. And although that's not always a bad thing, it's not always a good thing or an innocuous thing either, especially when some people do it all the time and force the results on others. "We will not let weak soft primitive empathy stop us from eradicating the [Jews]/[Palestinians]/[maybe you next mofo]!"
@Paul Simon McCarthy Fair enough, as long as the quotation is only being used in that sense too.
@Paul Simon McCarthy i also took it as telling the person to explain the why, instead of just stating the what. Why do you find this offensive? Is offense important, or is there a more tangible issue? Is the problem that you don't like a word, or that you don't like a concept? Are we even thinking about the same concepts, or using the words in the same way?
Some words and concepts can be used in problematic ways, even though they are not themselves problematic (people who equate evolution and the very twisted concept of social Darwinism, spring to mind).
@@SplotPublishing empathy has its time and place. For me to say I'm offended by your response it doesn't take away from any of your point or serve anything in regards to a response. Sometimes vastly different views will offend someone. There's a difference between respecting a person and respecting their views
Here in England I hear people on the street and after every three or four words there's a swear word, fuck being the most common. It's become a 'filler' word, like when someone says 'um...' , or as I hear so often on the Atheist Experience, 'you know', 'I mean,', 'like'. Its not adding value to the conversation.
Brilliant, Matt. Discovered AE a few years ago and have enjoyed it immensely.
Words have as much power as you give them.
I think that we shield everyone from bad words so that they wont get normalized. This is important because we want them to be "bad". This is how we express feelings and produce shock value.
If you start freely using curse words, then they will become normalized and, in a sense, die.
#SaveTheCurseWords!
#SaveTheCurseWords is a hashtag I could get behind. lol
Honestly I don't see a real problem with that. If curse words lose their meaning and people quit doing stupid things just because something they heard made them mad, that's what I call progress.
Anybody who claims "you swear" is basically admitting that they don't have anything better to say.
In this video Matt talks about a fence, and how if you say profanity to some people they may take a fence, your fence in fact. So watch out. Save your fences people, fence thieves are real, and they are out there.
I really have enjoy all of your videos. You put my thoughts and questions into intelligent knowledgeable terms. thank you.
Hey Matt, thank you for making/posting this video. I've had the very same thoughts about language and words since I was in my teens, and it's reassuring to hear somebody of a rational and reasoned mind convey those same thoughts and feelings. Thumbs up :-)
Something is fucked up, because I only got e-mail notification of one video, and there were three new videos.
Matt
Thank you for your honesty and for making the world a better place.
Thank you Matt for making this fucking video. The subject of swearing is not addressed nearly enough. It really drives me crazy when people get offended over swearing.
They're words. You will survive.
Great Video Matt, and I totally understand your point, but I also submit to you that you may feel SLIGHTLY differently if you were a parent. You would shock yourself with the face you'd make when you heard your child cuss AT YOU for the first time.
There is something I realized only recently, when somebody told me that something I said (which happened to be true) offended her. I realized that people often state that they are offended when they have no valid counter-argument to what you just said. They can't refute what you said, they cannot even come up with a lame excuse for their behaviour, so they are *offended* by what you said.
Stating that you are offended is an admission of defeat. It is an appeal to a sense of social propriety to try to shame your opponent into apologizing for stating the truth.
Fuckin-A Matt, I love when you take an aside and address these related topics. I just had this conversation with my religious spouse. You basically stated much more clearly what I was trying to convey in my brief discussion with her.
OMFG Matt. I love, love, love this talk. I could not find a single thing that I disagreed with. This is what I have been fighting with most of my life. I hate this "style over substance" bullshit really annoys me. I will usually conform to my audience, but I also really hate it when people try to "cheat" their way out of an argument by objecting to a word or an expression. Brilliant talk, thank you.
Thanks Matt. You’ve yet again shed light on the mystery baggage that haunts me.
*Matt you are awesome, love your work, and love the debating power you harness so well. Hitch would consider you an great ally in my opinion. Keep it up.*
I agree with about everything you said, but don't you think it undercuts your point about substituting words like "fudge" and such when you use the term "N-word," as if that word really does have magical power, and can't even be used to simply refer to its mere existence as a word?
Since his point was to consider your audience, I don’t think that undercuts anything. He isn’t saying “this word should never ever be uttered,” but rather “I’m choosing to not utter this word for a variety of reasons,” it would fit with his logic for not swearing around his grandmother.
Watch Louis CK's routine about the "n word". ua-cam.com/video/dF1NUposXVQ/v-deo.html
Exactly. He wasn't referring to anyone by that word, which I agree would be pretty offensive. Not even referring to it merely to indicate which word is under discussion seems infantilizing, and inadvertently gives the word power it doesn't deserve.
I don't know what the laws are like in the USA but using racist words in the UK in public fora like YT, Twiter, FB, etc will get you in serious trouble because racism in the UK is now an offence. The word 'fuck' has no such legal presence but racist words do. Big difference,
There's no such laws like that in the US (yet), and I hope there never are. Even if well-intentioned, this could be seriously abused. What if someone used a racial slur in discussion of how the term originated, and not in a context of directing it towards any individual or group? Would that count as racism under this law? What if the person using it is part of a group at which the term is usually directed? Does it still count, or is that different? Policing language never turns out well.
Beautiful frame you set up in this video. Like!
Insightful as always
Some say that swearing is the sign of a limited vocabulary. Personally I think that's complete bollocks.
Well, to be honest, that is better than partial bollocks.
I was going to comment a bunch of swear words but youtube says its against the terms of service
Exactly! It's always bothered me when people use "whore" in a deragatory way. It's more insulting to people of that profession than it is to whoever they're trying to insult.
ZGoten People who use it that way have never rationalized it's meanings. They're just looking for "bad" words to strike. Full stop.
Matt, I can't imagine you haven't heard George Carlin's "Seven Words" bit from his "AM/FM" album, but I have to say that after we hear your words here, anyone who has not heard master word smith Carlin's classic take on 'filthy words' being 'just words' really should. Thanks Matt! You too are a master word smith that can and nearly always does induce worthy thought.
I've heard people say "Jiminy Christmas" in lieu of Jesus Christ. And I've always wondered who they thought they were fooling. To quote George Carlin: "Some people say 'shoot!' They can't fool me, man. Shoot is shit with two Os."
I say both shoot and shit, and I mean them each separately. I know what I'm saying when I say "shoot" and frankly, in some ways, it's worse. ;-)
@@SplotPublishing I presume you're not shitting people, I hope you're not shooting people.
Shiting the shoot
I've often heard Christians use it. And such things as "dang", "dash", "darn", "heck", "fudge" - I frequently think, *I* know what they _really_ mean; do they seriously think their omnipotent god, who punishes people for thought crimes, is so stupid that _he_ doesn't know what they really mean? It's tempting to say, "if *I* know what you mean by that, it's certain that your god knows as well - so you're fucking damned to hell."
I've always found vulgar to be the best description, and that's exactly what I consider the words in question. While I tend to speak freely and use vulgar language when in my peer group, when I'm around superiors at work or the university or around children, I try to refrain from vulgar language. It has to do with nothing other than how I wish to be perceived and in what situation. Enjoy the content, Matt. Keep up the good work!
Matt, you’re so fucking well-spoken and composed. I love it.
I think you are conflating "people shouldn't put this on their truck" with "people shouldn't be allowed to put this on their truck". I think it's reasonable to be of the position that one thinks it unwise to further the political divide in a country by writing inflammatory shit everywhere and at the same time defend a persons right to do so when challenged by the law.
Even though you do address this idea of "consider your goals when you say something" later on in the video I do think that it's easy for a lot of people to hear "you shouldn't" as "you're not allowed to"... when I tell people they shouldn't do a thing I only do that from position that "look if your goal is to X, then you shouldn't do Y because Y offends people and gives them another good reason to close themselves off to what may be very valid arguments" not "you shouldn't to Y because it's offensive and offense is a terrible thing to inflict". Maybe when your friends on FB were saying "he shouldn't have put that on his truck" they meant it in the way that I said it, not in a prohibitive kind of way.
Agreed. You can find something distasteful while still acknowledging someone's right to do that thing.
In the case of the fuck trump bumper sticker, I would argue that you absolutely _should_ put something like that on your truck. It's necessary inflammatory language to fight an inflammatory political joke of a president.
Matt, I don't mind when you are being flavorful in your delivery. It helps me to relieve any underlying, undetectable stress I may be carrying.
Off topic but did Matt ever do a debate with Frank Turek? Is it available for viewing anywhere or did that never happen?
I swear some consonants just make certain words spicier/swearier.
I follow those sentiments exactly. As a 70 year old mom my advice is to teach children how and when to use language. Throwing cuss words or obscenities around without regard to the situation demonstrates a dullness of mind and a lack of self control. Teach them the polite words when they're too young to be able to use discretion. Then as they get to be older let them use all the words. [Love your posts!]
I completely agree with you. My children are 17 and 11. I have never discouraged language. When they were very young, I was obviously careful about what words are used around them because other people will get offended if they say them. They will take offense where none was given. As they got older and it became clear that I didn't care what language they used, I sat them down and explained that people will take offense and that they should be careful when using certain kinds of language in public.
Two words....George Carlin. No one has explained the use of words better than him but Matt does an excellent job.
Ya, but what is you opinion on a person being invited on a stage by a performer to sing a song and then proceeds to sing all the lyrics to the song, not remembering that they weren't the right colour to use those lyrics?
Yeah, that was a stupid incident. No matter how you approach it that doesn't make any sense. The offense seems to stem from the idea that groups that have been oppressed by a word are the only one who can use it: they call this reclamation. However, if the goal of black people or any oppressed group of people using a slur is to rehabilitate its meaning through reclamation; then it is hypocritical to be offended when someone uses a word they no longer associate with the original racist/bigoted meaning due to reclamation. On the other hand, if these slurs are always bad than Kendrick should stop being racist in his songs. The only remaining argument from here is that the word means something different when the oppressed group (black people in this case) use it since they can't be invoking the morally abominable original meaning. However, this is just an intuitive and poor repacking of context. That is, being black comes with the built-in assumption that you are not racist against black people so your meaning is harmless. Of course this assumption is incorrect, there are many self hating black people who use the word in a racist sense.
Thanks for a great video Matt. I'm glad I tuned in as you made many great points.
I'm trying to reduce the excessive amount of use I give the word Fuck.
I think I say it way too much and thereby reduce any potential impact I could gain when I wish to use it to emphasise a point. But on the other hand the word fuck is so much a part of daily language in my workplace and social circles I wonder if it is worth even bothering to curb its use.
I think it is great to think about the words we use and be mindful of our choice of words for different situations. I also think language is always changing and many people need to be dragged along with the rest of us.
Hey Matt. Appreciate your work! Could you please try and convince the AXP-channel on you-tube people, to PLEASE allow for free speech, right there underneath the clips posted there? (I mean: Instead of redirecting us to another website, saying the link'll get us to the exact same clip to respond on, which isn't the case etc. )
I mean: There will always be those who're gonna troll the threads, be offensive or whatever; But is that REALLY enough reason to DISABLE any kind of discussions (again: right there underneath the clip, posted on you-tube) ? Don't the trolls and/or religiously tunnel-visioned expose themselves on these threads too? Thanks in advance for replying/considering.. (and please: keep up the good work, cause faith-belief truly is too scary too ignore, nowadays)
HA! I KNEW this was about Denise.
Way to go Matt you have just removed any doubt of that which many of us always thought. You are a disrespectful, bombastic person!
I get something worthwhile every time I hear you speak. Thanks.
This is a bit long-winded for an excuse for why you swore at your mom, Matt. ;)
Matt you are very logical. I say that because many of your thought processes are similar to mine and I, of course, am super logical! Keep it up brother
Eliza Smith if you think “logical” or “processes” are big, complicated, and long....
@@elizasmith1229 why?
That was fucking awesome. Thanks, Matt.
Very interesting to hear Matt's reasons for using or not using particular words. I was kicked off the Atheist Facebook page that uses as its header all the team at the Atheist Experience posing for a photo. My crime was that in response to someone posting a photo of a protester doing an idiotic act I had asked if he was the idiot who had run out in the middle of an F1 race at Silverstone some years ago. The same guy dresses up in 'Irish' wear and has jumped out in front of a bicycle race. Because I would not retract the 'ableist' word and refuse to do it after 2 warning messages I got kicked off and blocked!
Thank you for this video.
I'm a bit confused. Did you say I can't use the word "Nike"? Are people who wear Reeboks that sensitive?
I hate the phrase "Fuck you". Don't make promises you won't follow through with !!! lol
What a coincidence, the first discussion I had in 2021 was about this, about 40 minutes into the year...it's going to be another long long year. Be safe people, as always thanks for the video Matt.
P.s.: 100% agree, everyone should listen to Tim Minchin and Stephen Fry
Why is it that some words have "baggage" and others do not?
Context is important. I feel that in many cases those that employ name calling and profanity are tacitly admitting that they have lost the argument. Name calling is an abandonment of reason.
I remember the AE episode where that lady got so butthurt on your use of the fuck word. I found it strangely bleeping hilarious.
BTW, the caller Matt is referring to a lovely, seemingly drunk, caller named Denise. It can be accessed directly at ua-cam.com/video/smPEplUcPgY/v-deo.html. This is NOT posted directly from TheAtheistExperience, but has been reposted. I'm not certain if this has been sanctioned, but it can also be found at TAE (oops, just found it; didn't know it had been excised) ua-cam.com/video/pvPO23_aW3g/v-deo.html.
only the other day i used the "sticks and stones" phrase when conversing with a creationist who objected to my use of "indelicate" language.
i am chuffed to now to hear matt so succinctly corroborate my thinking- i must be on the right track. fuckin sweet.
I agree about the fighting doctrine. I think that it is a learned response instead of inherent human response. It falls more under cultural “norms”. I am speaking more about calling someone’s wife or mother a name than saying “fuck.”
When I was 25, I was going to a therapist and he asked if he could record one particular session for the board overseeing the counseling business. This was a particularly awesome session; I brought up and dealt with a lot of emotional baggage. So the board listened to this recording and my therapist waited for their response. And what was it? "You said fuck." That was it. He asked if it bothered me that he said fuck and I said no, though at the time I didn't use that word or very little. He was so pissed that he contemplated quitting. I'm glad he didn't, he was an honest person with integrity and helped me tremendously. I was astonished that that was all they could think of saying instead of all the shit I he helped me deal with.
Certain words have a generally agreed upon offensive nature and if you take that away they loose that. It’s important that swear (or cus / curse) words remain taboo. If they don’t then they loose their impact as spoken expressions of the exclamation mark for example.
They are beautiful as they exclaim emphasis not actually possible with any punctuation glyphs in modern or ancient written forms.
If you use one, you should expect a reaction.
That’s what they are for.
If you use one in a debate, it shows me, you “feel” you are loosing and so are knowingly poking your opponent in anger.
It doesn’t look good Matt.
Every time you have offended someone doing so has ended the discussion (which you admit you were fully aware was a possible outcome).
Just don’t do it. You don’t need too. You are right anyway so please don’t try and diminish cursive language. It’s so dam useful.
Cursive language is not useful at all in the since that you are describing. "they exclaim emphasis not actually possible with any punctuation glyph in modern or ancient written forms." This is complete bullshit, I cannot believe how much you want to retain your irrational beliefs about these words. The fact that you think using a curse word in a debate means you are using it out of anger and that somehow means you are losing the debate means you do not understand language or debate.
Is it perverse that I prefer to watch Atheist Debate videos on Sunday morning.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a fucking suck a bit biologically difficult? Or am I just inexperienced?
I finished this video and I actually had reason to keep ‘not’ saying the words I already don’t say. I’m this video I see Matt making points on why it’s not a big deal to say “fuck” while also justifying not saying other words in certain situations or contexts. Yet those same reasons can be applied to why I don’t say “fuck”.
In any -normal- conversation, I just can't get myself to keep using words that would convey something that might likely be taken as an insult. And when in a debate, that makes it awkward and artificial when I use them. Somehow, I just can't. Even if I'd like to remove myself or the person I am speaking with out of a comfort zone to start something fresh, I can't. It feels forced.
I try not to use too much profanity, but not because I think that those words have some kind of magical power or because I care if anyone else does. I tend to avoid them because, as you said, words are tools and that particular set of tools can be very effective. When used sparingly, they can put a lot of emphasis on a statement a draw a lot of attention.
Matt, I agree that the power we give words is unfounded. But in eve day life, when people are trying to find good jobs, we need to make it clear that people, especially young people, have a choice to be right about language or use or professional language. I feel this is a disclaimer that is necessary because many young people watch your videos
Why do young people have to be careful of the words they use? Because our culture has passed down the unfounded notion that these words are magical bad words that you can't say. If everyone truly understood this, there wouldn't be a problem.
Zen and the art of swearing by Matt Dilla-Fucking-Hunty.
Great video mate.
The word idiot was claimed as sacred elsewhere in an atheist group, I left them to their ways but damn did one try to make me a fool. Is that ok, the fool word or am I an idiot along with, or as well. This crap can get petty.
Thanks for your voice Matt, and to all of us tired of the insults to humanity we will yet suffer from blind faith.
Could you talk about trigger words, evangelicals are very good at placing them in the salad and they are useful.
It has come to me lately that I don't think I know exactly what being offended is. Is it an emotion? I don't feel that it is for me. I may object, reject, or have have another take on things folks find offensive , but I am seriously wondering about the nature of offense. I have been called any number of names (faggot, sinner, take your pick) in person to my face during my life, but my response is not being offended, it is just a thought that this person is ignorant or bigoted and isn't that unfortunate for him or her. Anyone have another idea about what taking offense actually means?
It really bothers me when people censor the middle of a word.
see: People complaining about the use of "raped" in gaming communities. We all know it means dominated. We all know it's no better or worse than saying "killed" or "murdered", and yet there are those who hold some words on a special pedestal and even consider you misogynistic (?) for using it in a different context.
It seems like saying, ‘Then, why the fuck did you call...” is a reflexive, effortless way to disrespect your interlocutor for being inconsistent, hypocritical or disrespectful of you (often without their types realizing they were being disrespectful, being used to reflexly giving that type of retort) and, you. knowing this, take a cheap shot-knowing all along it would offend them much more than their hypocrisy actually offends you.
Leave it it Matt to cut through the shit with logic.
Love watching you work, man.
--a questioning Catholic (who abhors swearing)
I agree with you, however you did say "the n word", was it to avoid censorship of the platform ? If so you should have stated that to avoid the apparent contradiction. If not, that goes against what you said about words.
A racist slur and cuss words aren't the same. These is it justified reason behind the "N word" to get offended, there's no justified reasons to get offended by the world shit.
DENICE!!!!!!! I love that segment. It really exhibits the features of that mentality where one can't see the forest for all the goddamn trees in the way.
I raised my kids in Glasgow. They learned how to swear and haggle over different classifications of drugs, cigarettes and glue before they went to school. By the time they were at secondary school, they knew where to go to buy back your TV.
Contextual word choice is critical. Consider a student using an inappropriate word directed to a teacher. Now consider a teacher using an inappropriate word directed to a student.
I got expelled from Grand Canyon University for saying "ass, balls and bullshit." In context, npt directed at any person. There are real consequences to cursing. You can lose jobs, lose friends, get kicked off buses, get kicked out of places, banned from places. Like it or not, and much to my chagrin, cursing can get you in trouble.
Yeah, they're are societal consequences for saying certain things. You can't force someone to like what you have to say and that may cause you to lose certain things.
I got in trouble in Basic Training for telling my "buddy" to "fuck off and die" after she insulted my hair for no real reason. The Drill Sergeant even basically agreed with me, but said, (paraphrased) "rules is rules." Hard lesson.
Fuck is such a versatile word and I fucking love it. Great video, Matt.
I have OCD so I try to avoid cursing simply because it may trigger my symptoms. If I click on a video of Bible Reloaded I know what I'm getting into but I actually would appreciate if someone aware of my condition would try to avoid unnecessary cursing when talking with me.
Not that I am likely to bring it up because so many people don't know anything about real OCD.
I think Matt is my favourite debater/ thinker because of his intellectual consistency. Everyone can learn something from his logical arguments and integrity
Recently saw this Steven Pinker talk, about 1/3 of which was about the function of swearing (contains swearing, obvs.) ua-cam.com/video/hBpetDxIEMU/v-deo.html
I love this series
I especially like you talking about "curse" words. As you have said before, words are composed of phonemes and have no intrinsic ability to offend
If the intent is to offend and you get offended, that is incentive to keep offending. The only way to win is not to play.
Kids in my elementary school were very familiar with the f-word, circa 1964-1969. When we moved away in 1970, i thought i'd never have to hear that word again--i thought only kids there used it. But i soon realized that it was a feature of the adult world, too.
I think it was shakespeare that said "there is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so"
As children, me and my siblings figured out that swear words were arbitrary. So we chose a neutral, everyday word and gave it an insulting meaning. It was a completely arbitrary word. As children, we defined it as the most insulting word possible and jokingly started to use it in that manner.
Over time, this became and actual insult in our family. It stopped being a joke and now it's actually one of the "forbidden" words. We use it very sparingly. It's funny how, as children, we figured stuff out that professional apologists struggle with.
I always allowed my children to use the F word if the situation merited it. Never saw the sense of pretending fudge is a better (but now bad) word, while simultaneously expressing the same sentiment.
People, parents have the tendency of underestimating the intelligence of children and in doing so, insulting it. I am a parent, I did the exact same thing Matt is advocating for here and it works wonderfully. They are intelligent, they make their own decisions, good or bad and I do the best I can to guide them based on my experience and skepticism. My oldest kid has expressed to me that Matt DIllahunty is one of his heroes and I am very happy and proud parent of skeptics and freethinkers. Thank you Matt, for your hard work and eloquence, you are my kid's hero and role model.
I would like to state that when you are on someone else's property, or at a conference/party/meeting/other that they have paid for, you should definitely abide by the rules of decorum. If they are a shoes-off household, take off your shoes. If they are a no-cuss household, don't cuss. If they are a no-slur household, don't slur.
When someone is gracious enough to allow you into their personal space, be gracious enough to show respect for that space.
If you don't say the f-word around your mom or in formal debates because you understand that people may be offended or it might have an effect contrary to your goals, you're somewhat undermining your own argument.
Many people would be somewhat offended by profanity (regardless of whether they have a good argument or not), so to use the f-word around strangers seems to be pretty much saying you care more about using a specific word than you care about respecting and being kind to others, which does seem to largely betray any attempt to advocate for any moral position like humanism (unless of course they've acted in ways that justifies losing respect for them or no longer treating them with kindness, which I don't think applies if someone basically just agreed to disagree, albeit perhaps in a slightly-less-than-ideal way, as per the anecdote in the video, but that's perhaps another discussion).
I should add that I don't think I've ever, or at least not in the last decade or so, told anyone that they "shouldn't" use profanity (and I still haven't), and many/most cases of profanity doesn't offend me in the slightest and I don't mind at all. I just almost never use profanity myself.
My thoughts above may also (with some minor adjustment) serve as a response to another video you made at some point where you spoke about people being offended by your "tone" (if I recall correctly).
As for having a good argument: "I take offence because I [was raised to believe / live in a society where] these words cause offence" is... well, _an_ argument. It's an argument that seems very similar to the one for the n-word, which you seem to believe is best avoided. There may be some historic or other context around the n-word, but I expect most people don't factor that in to their decision to use or avoid the word to any significant degree, and ultimately it's offensive because we were raised to believe it's offensive and society agrees it's offensive. So an appeal to consistency would suggest that you should either be fine with both the f-word and the n-word, or fine with neither.
The above argument fails if:
(1) Too few people are offended. A whole lot of people are still offended by the f-word, but a whole lot of other people freely use it. So perhaps the argument could go either way, but I specifically used "too few" rather than appealing to the majority, because I think having sizeable percentage of people (however many that is) be offended should be sufficient reason to avoid it.
(2) There are better reasons to use the word. "I want to shock people" is ... just not a very compelling reason. This exception mostly exists to account for bigotry (whether conscious or subconscious), e.g. someone outside the LGBT community being offended by the word "gay" (or, more recently, "cis") used in a non-pejorative way. Although that is more offence at the concept described by those words, rather than the words themselves.
Point 2 is the key reason why this argument can't really generalise to anything else, like you openly talking about atheism or speaking at a religious venue.
I think intent is an important part of this that was left out.
Someone telling a friend "I fucking love you" turns out to be a nice sentiment, whereas a rapist saying "I'm going to love you to death" makes love a frightening word.
If we remove from circulation every word that people CAN find offensive, we won't be left with much.
This topic is the reason that I had to bail from. the Atheist Experience Facebook group. The sensitivity to word usage was just ridiculous. The idea that a word like "lame" when used in the context to describe a weak argument is offensive to disabled persons will inevitably make it impossible to have any conversation where context is cannot be construed to be something negative.