I was a Literature teacher for years. These poetic patterns are so cool. According to Robert Frost without the structure, "it's like playing tennis without a net". So intersting how hymnals referenced the meter.
Absolutely brilliant video ! Cheers for sharing this ! Reminds me of of learning poetic meter as a young fella ! The: iambic, trochees, spondees, anapests and dactyls. 😅 They were drummed into us ! An most lyrics follow them...
I'm a big hymnal geek -- knew right away what that means. :) In fact, in many English churches, the hymnal didn't have the "notes" at all, just the lyrics: the vicar would pick whatever tune was well-known to them (or the non-professional organist) to match the desired text.
The hymnals in the church I grew up didn't have that. But they a Anabaptist ... like the Mennanites ... and the Amish. So I think putting the meter would be too fancy. They actually had four hymnals. The black would be for church services. Those are the old standards. The blue would be for afternoon singing or Sunday school. Those were the new fangled gospel-type songs. The brown was for weird things, like youth group or camp/retreats and I think were more gospel-type songs, except more white. And the red book, well that was from the old country and for the congregations that spoke/sang Eastern European languages. The congregation I grew up in was 100% English, so the red book was something all the parents had and took when they visited the other congregations.
Exceptions to the meter are often because of different number of "lead-in" syllables, and doing some syllables in 16th notes instead of all 8th notes. I'm sure there are other reasons. And that's music, variations within structure. What a beautiful thing!!! And jazz, well, you learn all the rules and then figure out how to break them tastefully, haha.
Talking about the beatles song, if you add the phrasing of the melody to the table , it will show it is more consistent with the first verse, lyric metric is more about the rythm than the actual syllables, so how you phrase a melody can make it sound as the same metric as the past melody.
Only counting syllables is not enough. You also have to consider which ones are stressed and stick to the same order of stressed and unstressed. Otherwise it will not be singable. Actually, like the Beatles one, you can get away with a slight variation of the number of syllables if the stressed ones are in fixed places of timing.
It was something like accent/rhyme on every 2nd and 5th syllable, and a base of 7 syllables per sentence (not the right numbers but following this idea)
Very cool information that I never knew! I sang out of the Broadman Hymnal all through my youth every Sunday morning also. Thanks for the cool video Joe!
Did you learn a lot about music, harmonies, and reading music by growing up in a hymn singing church?? I did, and I value that experience in every way possible.
"They" say you learn something new every day. So, I just learned something new. Thanks Joe. Now I'm probably not going to be paying attention in church this Sunday because I'll be perusing through the hymnal book throughout the mass instead. Don't worry. I'll pay attention, maybe. This is just too cool not to look into further.
A couple things... 1. This is very interesting and I did not know this? Thanks for sharing that 2. What happens if said 8,6,7,5,3,0,9 ;) 3. You do have a song named after you...Hey Joe ;) 4. I always like hymns but prefer hers lol
🫢😮🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 the whole numbers in the hymnal thing totally blew my mind to smithereens.. I’m going to have to grab mine and mess with my wife on that..🤓 And on the syllable count thing, I feel like this is a concept I have somehow naturally acquired over time while trying to write anything artistic. At times I’ve even found myself counting syllables when writing lyrics. Cool video Joe!
Hey Joe. I play Brighter Shores & I believe you may have made the music for the game.If this is true, I would like to say thank you!! Also, You should definitely make more of those techno/IDM/electronic type sounds for the game. I really liked one of the tracks you composed for it. Let Andrew know a player wants more of those type!!!! haha :)
Are you trolling about "I don't know what that means" at 3:40? It's a quote from the Bible where some of the hymn lyrics are derived from. For "God, All Nature Sings Thy Glory", one of the lines is from the Book of Psalms, Chapter 104, verse 24, which is abbreviated "Ps 104:24": "How many are your works, O Lord; in wisdom you have made them all!" Songs will often paraphrase the text, to make them fit into the melody. This "secret code" works for the other hymns, too. 😉
Hey joe had a question i use studio one as my daw for recording and mixing however my production is done on my mpc keys 37 is there a way i can back up studio one sounds like drums to an external drive to use on other systems such as mpc etc?
▶︎▶︎ Free Songwriting Training: www.homestudiocorner.com/50
I was a Literature teacher for years. These poetic patterns are so cool. According to Robert Frost without the structure, "it's like playing tennis without a net". So intersting how hymnals referenced the meter.
Absolutely brilliant video ! Cheers for sharing this ! Reminds me of of learning poetic meter as a young fella ! The: iambic, trochees, spondees, anapests and dactyls. 😅 They were drummed into us ! An most lyrics follow them...
This was a hack I was already using without thinking about it. I remember wondering what those numbers were for, now I know!
My little a-ha moment is 8 and 7 gives you 15 step. In a way, it’s the most regular or irregular meters 😁
I have instinctually always counted and matched syllable count. The challenge then becomes conveying your intent within those parameters
Now I really learned something. How in hell did you get that?
I'm a big hymnal geek -- knew right away what that means. :)
In fact, in many English churches, the hymnal didn't have the "notes" at all, just the lyrics: the vicar would pick whatever tune was well-known to them (or the non-professional organist) to match the desired text.
Your videos are much appreciated ❤🖤 you’ve helped me so much I wish you knew
Good advice, thanks.
Great video and information. I'm a songwriter/arranger, and I will check my work to see if there's any correlation! Thank you for the video!!!!
The hymnals in the church I grew up didn't have that. But they a Anabaptist ... like the Mennanites ... and the Amish. So I think putting the meter would be too fancy.
They actually had four hymnals. The black would be for church services. Those are the old standards. The blue would be for afternoon singing or Sunday school. Those were the new fangled gospel-type songs. The brown was for weird things, like youth group or camp/retreats and I think were more gospel-type songs, except more white. And the red book, well that was from the old country and for the congregations that spoke/sang Eastern European languages. The congregation I grew up in was 100% English, so the red book was something all the parents had and took when they visited the other congregations.
Exceptions to the meter are often because of different number of "lead-in" syllables, and doing some syllables in 16th notes instead of all 8th notes. I'm sure there are other reasons. And that's music, variations within structure. What a beautiful thing!!! And jazz, well, you learn all the rules and then figure out how to break them tastefully, haha.
Thanks for sharing this! 👍
very helpful, as always, thanks joe
Super interesting! Thanks for sharing such a useful tool. Yet again, I should say.
Talking about the beatles song, if you add the phrasing of the melody to the table , it will show it is more consistent with the first verse, lyric metric is more about the rythm than the actual syllables, so how you phrase a melody can make it sound as the same metric as the past melody.
Amazing, never paid attention to those numbers, so interesting! Thanks
In my life has 10 syllables on the phrase "some have gone, and some remain" as lennon says 4 on the word gone.
Thank you Joe, never knew all this. Do more like this.
Very interesting video. Made me go back through some songs I'm currently working on to see what kind of syllable pattern I'm following.
To count syllables,put your hand under your chin, every time your hand drops, that’s a syllable 👍
Only counting syllables is not enough. You also have to consider which ones are stressed and stick to the same order of stressed and unstressed. Otherwise it will not be singable. Actually, like the Beatles one, you can get away with a slight variation of the number of syllables if the stressed ones are in fixed places of timing.
MIND BLOWN!!!! Now I have to go look at my hymnals!
You have such an amazing voice .
First time I got into this kind of thing was reading Tolkien's Beowulf, they even explained the metric reasoning in the preface :)
It was something like accent/rhyme on every 2nd and 5th syllable, and a base of 7 syllables per sentence (not the right numbers but following this idea)
Very cool information that I never knew! I sang out of the Broadman Hymnal all through my youth every Sunday morning also. Thanks for the cool video Joe!
This is one of my "tricks" writing songs and make it easier 🥰
Thanks I've learnt
Did you learn a lot about music, harmonies, and reading music by growing up in a hymn singing church?? I did, and I value that experience in every way possible.
It's always frustrating when you go to a church where they play a hymn that you know to a different tune.
Thanks Joe.
"They" say you learn something new every day. So, I just learned something new.
Thanks Joe. Now I'm probably not going to be paying attention in church this Sunday because I'll be perusing through the hymnal book throughout the mass instead. Don't worry. I'll pay attention, maybe. This is just too cool not to look into further.
Learned how to harmonize hymns is music theory 101.
Joe,
****Mind Blown****
Now I want to go back to using hymnals at church.
Yes hymnal!
I used to wonder, why I could sing some hymns using other melodies
A couple things...
1. This is very interesting and I did not know this? Thanks for sharing that
2. What happens if said 8,6,7,5,3,0,9 ;)
3. You do have a song named after you...Hey Joe ;)
4. I always like hymns but prefer hers lol
🫢😮🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 the whole numbers in the hymnal thing totally blew my mind to smithereens.. I’m going to have to grab mine and mess with my wife on that..🤓
And on the syllable count thing, I feel like this is a concept I have somehow naturally acquired over time while trying to write anything artistic. At times I’ve even found myself counting syllables when writing lyrics. Cool video Joe!
Hey Joe. I play Brighter Shores & I believe you may have made the music for the game.If this is true, I would like to say thank you!! Also, You should definitely make more of those techno/IDM/electronic type sounds for the game. I really liked one of the tracks you composed for it. Let Andrew know a player wants more of those type!!!! haha :)
Very interesting !
Are you trolling about "I don't know what that means" at 3:40?
It's a quote from the Bible where some of the hymn lyrics are derived from. For "God, All Nature Sings Thy Glory", one of the lines is from the Book of Psalms, Chapter 104, verse 24, which is abbreviated "Ps 104:24":
"How many are your works, O Lord; in wisdom you have made them all!"
Songs will often paraphrase the text, to make them fit into the melody.
This "secret code" works for the other hymns, too. 😉
I meant I wasn’t familiar with that song lyric
Hey joe had a question i use studio one as my daw for recording and mixing however my production is done on my mpc keys 37 is there a way i can back up studio one sounds like drums to an external drive to use on other systems such as mpc etc?
D=Doubled repeat 2x's
What happened to the cool camera angle
LOL Beatles meet Ludwig!
If you are singing out of the Trinity you are probably reformed.
🎯