Top Tips: Listen to the songs you love. Work out why you love them. Study them. Feel them. Stop listening and start studying, then go back to feeling. If you cannot feel you cannot write. Try to open your heart and absorb, what does it feel like to be that homeless woman in a bus stop, to be a teenager without words for the pure joy of love. Try to really understand how you feel. Find words of your own for how you feel. If you have heard it before put it aside. Being 'clever' with a lyric can be impressive- but it will never beat being authentic. People want to know how you feel, coz they're all trying to understand how 'they' feel...on this road, this journey. Films are the same, we want to hear someone say something or do something and we all go 'shit, that's it right there,' that's how I feel, or that's what I want, or that's what I was afraid of. Stories. It does not start with how well you play guitar, it starts with a will to feel and explore something about who you are and then try to tell everyone else...the music is second.
About contrast... a fellow songwriter I met and jammed with (musician's ad, didn't know him) played me a home recording of one of his tunes, saying there was something that bothered him about it and he couldn't figure it out as he thought he sang it fine, and played the acoustic guitar and mandolin accompaniment fine (that's all the instrumentation he used, which is ok by me). It was basically one decent 5 second melodic idea stretched into a 5 minute song. The guitar and mandolin just strummed unchangingly from start to finish - cleanly, no mistakes etc, but zero variation. No little runs or leads or adornments, no dynamic rises or falls, no deviation from the one chord progression. When you heard the first 10 seconds of the song, you'd heard all there was ever going to be. That really taught me about contrast and I became more watchful about any lack of contrast in my own writing.
@@SongTownUSA I suspect that contrast is also depicted through call-and-response. I believe that all interesting music depends on call-and-response of instrumentation and ideas in order to create a narrative in the mind of the listener consisting of different voices in dialog be it intellectually, emotionally, rhythmically or melodically. This has a profound effect on the listener who relates most instinctively to dialog as a contradiction to isolation.
Agree - Here's another side: I was hit by a massive stroke shortly after deciding to re-record my music. The problem was, I had to relearn how to play, record, mix, and everything else. Despite that, I managed to re-record a lot of my music. When I had the stroke, the resulting brain damage set a few boundaries for me. I grew up listening to artists like The Carpenters and Streisand, and I used to write down how they structured their songs in a way that any child could understand. Leaving music for over 30 years had its ups and downs, but for me, it's not about promoting my songs. It's about documenting that side of myself for my daughter. That's it. :)
So many of our songs came from just plugging in and finding a groove and recording everything. If we get 2-3 minutes of material out of 2 hours of recording I'm happy. Improvising and spending time in one key or scale made me such a better guitar player. Writing lyrics are the hardest for me but if I can sit with the instrumentals over and over a vocal melody will naturally come out.
Amazing content! Love how you get straight to the point without waffle, and so relevant and relatable without ego, it’s also universal advice to any culture or genre, and keeping humour at the same time, watched numerous videos of yours after this seeing this one. Bravo 👏
Had a great time hearing what you both had to say. I've been writing nearly 50 years now. I do it out of habit more then just because I want to. Meaning if I sit down and try to write something, I;m wasting my time. But I just pick up my guitar and start playing without intention, well that's how it happens for me. Even after all these years. It's fun to go back 30 or 40 years and listen to songs I've written and compare myself to what I write now. Big changes but at the same time, those early 3 chord songs were some of the most fun times! Appreciate you Dudes and your stories!
I can relate. After writing hundreds of songs, I don't believe I actually tried to write more than two or three. They just come out and say here I am I guess.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for reinforcing things that needed reinforcing, and getting me right back on track. I spent so many years writing lyrics for others (because I didn't have the recording skills) and neglected my own full songwriting. Now, I'm just going to press on and do my best with my solo songs. Your observations have been very helpful indeed. Good to know that even those who have managed to make a bigger success have faced the same obstacles and overcame them. Big respect to you guys, Jules (Julian Wilson UK)
I write music as a hobby and I particularly like that tip about making the song reflect one idea. Normally I do that and have been slogging through a recent song of mine, wrestling a chorus. As soon as I heard you say that my brain went “that’s why it’s a struggle!” Too many ideas and I need to distill further.
Yes. When I took up songwriting I found a new respect for hit writers from all backgrounds, and their skill at telling stories in three verses and a chorus. Sometimes even less.
I really love the last point the most. I am an amateur gospel song writer. When I get chances to play at various churches I never start out by saying, "I wrote this song". I just get up and do my thing and let the song speak for itself. When people comment later on the song (they almost always do), that's when I will say sometthing about my writing.
Number one s so correct. I remember John Lennon saying how 'In my life' was intended to be an homage to all the things that held significance for him regarding his city as he took the bus from home going downtown. The first results were precisely as you explained. Everything was there, but it was a soulless list.
This is more of a pop songwriting thing, but what always gets me is when a song finds new ways to tie back into the theme, usually by flipping a common expression. An example off the top of my head is in the second verse of Chappell Roan's Hot To Go with the line "no one's touched me there in a damn hot minute." It matches the song's existing references to heat and time, and it reinforces the thesis statement.
I have the day off and I'm getting ready to sit down and use all of these things that you've discussed see if I can't write a simple little country tune about a girl that I lost
I’m new to writing. It’s daunting and amazing and a rush. I just found your channel and have been chewing on all of the wisdom and experience that you two are sharing in this video. Especially the “furniture” comments. Thank you! I’m leaving inspired… and I’ll be back!
I think a great song is more than just a great lyric. I know Nashville is all about the story. But so much country sounds kinda the same. Same 4 chords. Same kind of solos. Same kind of big chorus I’m concentrating on just being myself and finding my own sound and style. Not writing in a genre. Just writing from the heart and being honest. Also today many of us have home studios where we can really craft and sculpt our own tracks the way we hear them and not hiring the same Nashville studio guys who play on thousands of songs. Thanks for this list !
I couldn’t agree more, that great songs are definitely more than just lyrics. And if you’ve listened to Country over the last couple years, there are all styles of music represented in the top 10. And the majority of songs no longer have the incredible session players that used to play on all the records. There are a ton of guys building tracks on computers now in Nashville. ( I actually started doing that in NYC in the 90's so I can relate). It’s a great mix right now of tracks and players. As someone who’s been fortunate to have hits and has worked in multiple genres over the years, it’s good seeing things opening up. -CM
@ very cool. Hey I grew up in NYC too. Early midi studios in the 80s. Thought about moving to Nashville to open up a studio as I’m a one man band multi instrumentalist. Singer songwriter producer engineer and picker! I’m up in Vancouver though. Love doing roots and country Good to hear it’s not the same old down there.
@@brooklynboy1000 Yes, I had an Atari 1040 computer with a midi port and a room full of synths in the 80's. I worked at Manny's music on 48th and then opened my own studio. Those were those days. Technology was so new and we were riding the wave! Love Vacouver! ~CM
@ I had the Commodore 64 and the 1040 Too. Dr T. Which became Notator. Eventually emagic and Logic. I Bought a Korg M1 from Sam Ash on 48th. Had many other synths and drum machines too. Was a good time to learn all that I used to go to Mannys, Rudy’s and 48th St Guitars. Do you remember the Electro Harmonix store? That was like 1977. Those were the days !
I thought when I started that I was lucky to have 8 melodies. Period. I assumed that was it and that my brain was finished creating music, but phrases and 2 bar segments just kept coming just begging to be combined with that perfect partner. Even years later as soon as I feel I'm tapped out, I wait a while and at some point start pairing together unremarkable bits with bland phrases to make lines that I have to hear 20 times. That 's a great moment when all these dull bits and scattered bars can be fashioned into something wonderful.
Great video, lots of great songwriting advice! Two words, in my opinion, that will bring people back to listen to your song over and over: Vocal Melody. Especially in pop/rock music. If it's memorable and they can hum or song along to it, you have a winner. The Beatles were the kings of catchy vocal melodies. You can take away the backing music from their songs and the vocal melodies still pull you in. The music surrounding their vocal melodies and the intruments used in the songs were just the icing on the cake. Again, just my opinion. 😊🎵🎶
Good stuff. I think the whole radio thing is that there is a lot of really good music that will never make it onto radio for whatever reason (length, audience, complexity, etc.). You might be writing better quality songs that what you're hearing on the radio, but your music needs to be marketable and interesting to a fairly wide swath of the populace. I don't think radio should be used as the bar for good songwriting though.
I think the point is more if your saying "my songs are better than whats on tge radio and the radio's only not playing it yet because tghey dont know about it or the right person ahant heard it yet"
Funny. When you were giving a story song example for the Time Jumping segment--"the kids 10 years old...then he's going off to college...then he's getting married"--you basically described Harry Chapin's song, "The Cat's in the Cradle." LOL.
Still watching, but so far this video is Incredibly valuable!! Thank you for taking time to help amateurs like myself understand and learn what we can improve in our song writing.
I play at open mics all the time, so I'll give you some of my pet peeves about original songs I hear: 1. No understanding of how to construct a song ... no coherent chord construction. 2. No sense of melody .... just noodling. 3. Waaaaay too long: trying to write their life story. I'd say 1 in 50 that I hear gets my interest. Now, I will admit, I don't write songs because I've never come up with anything better than the zillion great songs that are already out there ... I look for obscure songs that are cool and cover them in my own way. I hear all the time "hey, did you write that?" I just smile, non-commitally ... no, I always give credit to the song writer.
I see good songwriting as a snapshot of time. Where you can even taste the air and experience the story with many senses. We get transported to the writers experience.
Thoroughly enjoyed, simply being a sponge in this moment, humility, passion, sincerity, in my minds eye I was sharing coffee with you, just listening. Absolutely love this content. Thank you
Even after writing hundreds of songs I quite often struggle to be satisfied with the final product, I've never really thought about being better than anyone's songs as we all relate to different stories & styles, I'm happy if I manage to portray the moment/story and feeling I want my song to tell. I've found if I come back to songs I've written a few weeks later with a fresh perspective, there are plenty I think are average of even crap which often makes the better ones stand out and seem to have better flow and tell the songs story the way I want. Out of all the songs I've written there are only about a dozen or so that I'm close to being completely satisfied with.
Sometimes the words are really hard to come up with but playing the guitar and humming the melody giving the Cadence singing The Melody to the song will inspire a writer that has lots of lyrics into that timing and Cadence
A big pet peeve of mine in songwriting is by no means exclusive to amateurs, and maybe that's why it wasn't included here. It's when the lyric has the emphasis on the wrong syllable of a word or on the wrong word in a line. It is a connection killer. All of a sudden the listener (or me at least,) stops paying attention to the lyrics and thinks did she just sing "gor-GEOUS wo-MAN?" (That's an example from Alanis Morissette.) Now and then it can squeak by and be fine, but most of the time it's like a neon light and so easily fixed.
I understand what you mean. That used to bother me too, but then I realized it's a rule that gets broken _constantly_ by the biggest hit songs, including many songs that move me deeply. I'm glad you brought up Alanis as she does this often, yet Jagged Little Pill is considered a masterpiece by many. I still notice it all the time (once you see it, you can't un-see it), but I try not to judge it so harshly.
i have a fairly nice library of songs. all genres, that I have written and surprisingly folks like them from around the world and i was shocked when folks wanted to cover a few, and I never did music for the money and i have never thought my tunes were better than any song out there on the radio or not, i just write what i feel and people seem to pick it up, because a lot of them learn my lyrics and sing them at me...trips me out man. but grateful for even what I hve gotten from music and how I am blessed to e able to still be doing it 40 years later, just had a hard time living sso i never got to let many folks other than the fans i managed to get on music websites and social media... met some great artists back then, and i write a new song every single day, still never got anything out thee mainstreeam I suppose...and I still dont mind, I make people feel my songs and I aint questionin it.
Humm, I love lyrics that are somewhat unclear as to what is the exact meaning of the song. So much so that people can understand the story totally differently. So I tend to do the same things and I purposely keep things a little cryptic.
Agree. That's the art. If you write very literally, you may as well just write a book or something. No need to try to set literal information to music.
Good tips thanks fellas. Since you’re doing video, I’ll suggest one mistake that pegs you as an amateur videographer - putting the “look space” on the wrong side. If your body is angled to the left, you shouldn’t have more room over your right shoulder. In your case it’s tricky because your bodies are facing one way and your heads are turning the other way. So when you’re addressing each other it looks ok, but at rest it looks amateur.
They will literally let anyone have a camera these days 😂. Good thing we write songs! Seriously, any suggestions for dealing with the tiny square box room we are sert up it, is appreciated. Cheers, CM
Decades ago, I also noticed some tuneful, memorable and lovely songs on the radio played ALL the TIME-------in France. I find 'em on UA-cam and they still sound marvelous though the synth dates them. Not one ever made it to the USA to my knowledge. Zero recognition here even with some of the catchiest, ear worm melodies.
One thought I had, and maybe it's well known so doesn't need to be mentioned, but if you have an idea for a song...write it all the way out...even if you don't know all the words yet, but get the whole "idea" onto a recording or paper, or whatever. Then, you've at least got a complete idea, and you can go back and fine-tune it from there. For me, this has been the hardest part of my songwriting journey, getting a great idea, singing into a recording device. Then walking away. Not finishing anything. I don't know if my song-writing skills are decent at all because I complete a verse and a chorus, and I'm spent!! :)
This is a great video. It's two experienced musicians/writers in polite, casual conversation. The good news for me is that I never had too much furniture, just like in my everyday life. More good news is that I NEVER thought highly of what I had written. I only put them out in the world very sparingly. I knew they were just sketches and was very hesitant to share them. I have had people ask me what I thought of their music and felt awkward when I didn't like it. I don't think I pronoun jumped. I'd have to go back and listen, which I rarely do. When I do listed I get ready to cringe but usually end up thinking, "not bad for a first effort". One thing I do notice is that I never got around to writing a decent drum track even though that's the only instrument I can actually play :) That's how much of a sketch they are :) I don't think I time jumped but my stuff wasn't complicated enough to travel through time. I learned by myself not to be slave to the rhyme. Even though it was prevalent, I knew that I had learn to stay away. I didn't want to make the mistake the early Beatles made :) Was I too rhymie? Again, I'd have to check. Songtown seems like a win win situation. If there was a place to drop off sketches I'd do it in a heartbeat with zero expectations. A one in a million chance is still a chance and there would be no down side because they probably suck anyway. :) As far as 'same old' it could be. I probably lifted every riff from something I heard. I find myself thinking of a melody after leaving a restaurant where I probably unconsciously hear it playing in the background. My songs have no guitar in them because I only had rudimentary instrument samples to work with. Too many ideas in one song? Heh heh. I'm not that deep :) The lyrical contrast reminded me of Missing You. You knew how it was going to end but he made you wait until the end :) I believe I used some contrast. If not, I will be sure to apply it on my next album. Again, great video. I'm glad I watched it.
Wow. This is really great! I think this is a good list for even naturally talented songwriters that do have a gift, to be able to see what they're doing wrong. Many times list can be obvious, but this had really good ones for even seasoned writers.
Not having an ending! I once saw a singer-songwriter open for a major act, and he talked about how he had just written ten songs the day before, so that’s all he played. And NONE of them had a proper ending - they just stopped.
I find that all my best songs are quickly done, from idea to recording, what takes a long time for me is singing that song in all its parts 100 times each, giving it a few days then going back to record it again. its at that time I know if I have a good song, if its something that I'm working at so much that I start to hate the song ill throw it away because my hate for that song will be obvious in the final recording
@@lumberpilot I'm even dispensing with any rhyming at all for most of my songs in the last ten years or so! I want to tell a story, not a nursery rhyme most of the time. I'm not totally going "free-verse," but if nothing else, I just want to get my raw emotion down for later on, to see if I can boil it down into a more manageable piece. At least I have a start, even if it's not a very good start.
As the man on the right said, putting down all words you can think of (regarding a very specific topic) is not a bad idea. It's what you make out of these words. You gotta keep your specific topic in mind and bring it across very clearly.
Thanks very much for the enlightening discussion! I’m a fan of the circled word (clustering) exercise you mentioned. Though I feel it can go deeper than just generating furniture. The way the word cluster develops and the stories that are suggested through the window of the cluster can be a very liberating approach. In my experience it requires seeing beyond the ‘list’ and letting the list suggest a story through word relationships. The book “writing the natural way” goes deep into this method.
Id say learning to construct a song is paramount. In regards to general arrangement I think when you originally start out the first rule is the old one...'Don't bore us get to the chorus ' and then I found just get to work on looking for new music and copy your way to originality lol
Thank you SO much, guys. I had never heard of Gene Cotton or the song Me & The Elephant. But I’m embarrassed to say I have listened to it at least 10 times today. What a touching little song. I know when a song is well written because, when it is, a little voice inside me says, “God, I wish I had written that.” That’s my yardstick. Anyways, there is nothing better than finding a new favorite song that makes you obsess over it for a little while. Shame that this one is virtually forgotten and not on Apple Music. Anyways, thank you, guys. You blessed me today.
I feel uncomfortable with the notion that "currently marketable" = "great" I don't think this was really what you're saying - but I just feel that the venn diagram of "Great songs" and "songs I hear on the radio" doesn't have a whole lot of overlap. I suppose if you play something for 10 people whose tastes you respect or who represent the sensibility you're going after... and they tell you back to the drawing board, the point makes sense.
Great points guys, appreciate it. Especially the one about worthiness. I study some with Victor Wooten and he always says to worry less about finding opportunity and more about being worthy of it when it comes.
@@SongTownUSA That's right. Regarding this point, I like to reference the scene in the movie Major League when Wesley Snipes character wakes up to the sound of a starting pistol. He jumps up and in his pajamas catches the two players racing and beats them. The assistant manager shows the manager the time on the stop watch and the he says, "Get him a uniform." Similar to the story you all told about the song that moved everyone at the songwriting workshop. In other words, worry less about being discovered and more about being worth finding. Thanks for the great discussion, fellas!
this is the best songwriting video i’ve seen on youtube. not simple tips, but tangible things you can take away that fit in everybody’s senario. thank you🤙🏼
Home run as usual, here! It looks like the majority of pages in my personal songwriting instructional handbook are being filled with my notes from these SongTown gems. It may be time to join! Many thanks, from CJ Runyon in Southern Illinois!
Great stuff. "Too much furniture. What makes me wanna give a crap. It's about the song's story." Except how many hit songs currently on Spotify have a good storyline? Or any storyline at all?
I've always made it a point to try and write great songs that are still commercial. Commercial just means a lot of people have heard it... I don't think you have to choose one or another. Writing to sell was definitely never the driving factor. I'm thankful it's worked out well for me in my career. ~CM
Funny thing, when you mentioned the ‘beach song’ example, I couldn’t help think of a tune I have been working off and on about the Jersey Boardwalk in the off season. Always view it as a Bruce or more retrospective turn for Bon Jovi piece. Interesting. More recently, I went out for a second hip op. Prior to, I gave myself a music project. I studied early Beatles pieces then came up with a chord structure and list of criteria which I felt defined songs of the early Beatles era. I then set out to write and record an original intent on capturing the ‘early Beatles vibe’. Sans The Weeklings. As of this writing (12-6-24) a rough demo of the arrangement has been recorded. A project like this is a great way to develop song writing tools geared to a more succinct product overall. Yeah, length and lack of dynamic pressence is always a quick track to the ‘blahs’. Interesting video! Tapping the subscribe tab for sure!
When I work on a song, I often feel like every line could be its own song. I don’t want to waste all those ideas on just one song. I could turn it into a song like "Like A Rolling Stone" where new versus just keeping or split it into several songs, but they might end up sounding too similar. Maybe the best approach is to focus on picking only the best lines to create one great song, rather than ending up with a bunch of mediocre ones.
@@SongTownUSA I have a question I’m trying to craft a country style. That is a tight harmony like a cappella group such as Pentatonix, but has instruments.
The first five to 10 words in a song are everything when I write it's usually with a handful of lyrics figure out how to sing them and then I can just hear what the guitar should be underneath of it I sit down and figure it out
I decided 5 years ago to do this all on my own because I just got tired of messing around with musicians that weren't going to cut the mustard now I'm realizing that I just needed to step up my class of musician
I love a good setup line! a band that was really good at that was *drum roll* the Beatles haha. examples: Ticket to Ride, Hard Day's Night, 8 days a week to name a few
I always wonder what the pros would say to me. On my 2nd and 3rd draft, i try to find the parts i hate the most and act as my own critic to make each line more important. Lots of ironing, but it doesn't take too long, at least.
@SongTownUSA It gets the songs done, that's for sure. Lol! I do feel like I'm flailing wildly as I get closer to a bullseye by accident. XD My primary goal is just to put in reps.
What I do is journal everyday. In the morning one I write how I feel about starting the day and how I want to respond. At night I recap if I did what I wanted then o just brainstorm my thoughts and feelings and desires and lyrics start to form as I hum it as a melody
Good points. I heard of Clay Mills through a collaborating friend of mine. And he told me Clay knows his stuff. One common thing as a failure I have found with many many songwriters is bad bad grammar! These days with rap or hip hop being so in demand, people seem to have lost the focus of grammar. I know there's one thing to have a two particular about it. I know lots of country songs have the word ain't and that's fine. But some of the grammar is just so juvenile and tarnishing to what might be a good song. These days it looks like the game has changed. Which is detrimental. But there are some popular song writers who are in the right place at the right time and by the grace of God, some would say a quirk in the universe who could be considered less than to the standards. And in the industry if there's anything that even remotely seems to be a possibility, by the process of over promotion and bombardment to the general public, the people will love the song and make it great on their own. I'm a very very serious songwriting lyricist who became a poet at first with around 100 collaborations. But until they are in the right hands, I'm a nobody.
Right! The song that comes to mind is Landslide by Fleetwood Mac. The snow-covered hills can produce an avalanche, but she calls it a Landslide and the song is a classic.
@mommy-conmed I agree even though personally I was more partial to Christine's writings and music. And I thought she had the most beautifully sincere voice.
Nah, English sux. Instead of pronouns, omit subjects as well. The more vague and disjointed it is the more interpretive it is. Then just refuse to use English. HOWEVER, latin is good, we need more grammatically proper Gregorian chants in edm.
Damn I’m glad I found this video, So much truth that can be humbling but growth comes from being humbled. Excellent points and advice. Great Video, Thank You Very Much for being honest. You’ve gained a new subscriber
I attended a seminar and I submitted a " new" song that I wrote. It was a well produced demo that said Nothing! I was quickly humbled and went back to my roots. I've written some good stuff that I've played in public and they were well received. I'm almost finished with a project, looking for a publisher. How do I properly go about doing this.
If you can play a beat and base the beat on words you are going to get it completed with reason. I just put on a tone generator and sing along with a tone while playing the beat along with singing. Nothing is written down. I stopped writing when I broke my disposable pencil tips. Why do I need to write it down when I can use the tone and the drums to create something higher?
I have heard it done well. Where you rhyme the 3rd from last word of each line and the last word is the same. For me, it depends on the context and how well the song is written, or not.
I never think my songs are better, but I do wonder, if people heard this in a playlist, genre dependent of course, would it catch someone’s interest to stand on its own merit?? Ultimately, I like writing and producing what I want to hear. But like J Mascis said, surely someone else out there wants to listen to what I’m creating. (Not a direct quote) But it does make you think.
Some things drop together in an evening, and other stuff takes 10 years for the right matching concept to come to be. Should I be concerned about that, or just let it come together naturally?
Songs can take what they take as far as time. There are things you can do like writing a little everyday, to improve and train your creativity to show up more on demand. But if you are enjoying your process, that is ultimately all that matters. Write on! CM
Top Tips: Listen to the songs you love. Work out why you love them. Study them. Feel them. Stop listening and start studying, then go back to feeling. If you cannot feel you cannot write. Try to open your heart and absorb, what does it feel like to be that homeless woman in a bus stop, to be a teenager without words for the pure joy of love. Try to really understand how you feel. Find words of your own for how you feel. If you have heard it before put it aside. Being 'clever' with a lyric can be impressive- but it will never beat being authentic. People want to know how you feel, coz they're all trying to understand how 'they' feel...on this road, this journey. Films are the same, we want to hear someone say something or do something and we all go 'shit, that's it right there,' that's how I feel, or that's what I want, or that's what I was afraid of. Stories. It does not start with how well you play guitar, it starts with a will to feel and explore something about who you are and then try to tell everyone else...the music is second.
Great approach. Write on! CM
Best comment yet
@@LHB57 Thank you. It is good of you to be so kind.
↑ This is the way.
About contrast... a fellow songwriter I met and jammed with (musician's ad, didn't know him) played me a home recording of one of his tunes, saying there was something that bothered him about it and he couldn't figure it out as he thought he sang it fine, and played the acoustic guitar and mandolin accompaniment fine (that's all the instrumentation he used, which is ok by me). It was basically one decent 5 second melodic idea stretched into a 5 minute song. The guitar and mandolin just strummed unchangingly from start to finish - cleanly, no mistakes etc, but zero variation. No little runs or leads or adornments, no dynamic rises or falls, no deviation from the one chord progression. When you heard the first 10 seconds of the song, you'd heard all there was ever going to be. That really taught me about contrast and I became more watchful about any lack of contrast in my own writing.
Write on! ~CM
@@SongTownUSA I suspect that contrast is also depicted through call-and-response. I believe that all interesting music depends on call-and-response of instrumentation and ideas in order to create a narrative in the mind of the listener consisting of different voices in dialog be it intellectually, emotionally, rhythmically or melodically. This has a profound effect on the listener who relates most instinctively to dialog as a contradiction to isolation.
Yeah he needs to work with a producer or learn production. That 5 sec can be all you need as the basis of a great tune
Dynamics, transitions and key changes. ‘Nuff said 👍
Once heard songwriters saying, if you use the word “baby,” it better sound like never before. A couple of days later, Amy Grant “Vaby Vaby!”
Agree - Here's another side: I was hit by a massive stroke shortly after deciding to re-record my music. The problem was, I had to relearn how to play, record, mix, and everything else. Despite that, I managed to re-record a lot of my music. When I had the stroke, the resulting brain damage set a few boundaries for me. I grew up listening to artists like The Carpenters and Streisand, and I used to write down how they structured their songs in a way that any child could understand. Leaving music for over 30 years had its ups and downs, but for me, it's not about promoting my songs. It's about documenting that side of myself for my daughter. That's it. :)
Thank you for sharing that amazing story! CM
@@SongTownUSA You're welcome 🙂
"Cuervo Gold" made me instantly think of "Hey Nineteen" by Steely Dan...that's how you have furniture AND tell a story! Thanks for a great video!
Great song! CM
"Hey Nineteen, that's 'Retha Franklin..."
The verses have furniture but the chorus has the thesis statement. We can't dance together - we've got nothing in common - no we can't talk at all.
Craig Wiseman has made a career out of furniture. "Summertime" recorded by Kenny Chesney comes to mind. But the storyline is there as well.
@@suitestheband And the hilariously painful line, "she thinks i’m crazy, but i’m just growin’ old" 😂
So many of our songs came from just plugging in and finding a groove and recording everything. If we get 2-3 minutes of material out of 2 hours of recording I'm happy. Improvising and spending time in one key or scale made me such a better guitar player. Writing lyrics are the hardest for me but if I can sit with the instrumentals over and over a vocal melody will naturally come out.
Brb gonna go re-write all my songs now
Lol! I feel the same way after I mix any song!
It's not written until you release it. Like signing a painting
@EmperorKamikaze I did release them though and they aren't very good
@justinaskins2156 new songs then ✍️
Amazing content! Love how you get straight to the point without waffle, and so relevant and relatable without ego, it’s also universal advice to any culture or genre, and keeping humour at the same time, watched numerous videos of yours after this seeing this one. Bravo 👏
We really appreciate you letting us know. Write on! CM
Had a great time hearing what you both had to say. I've been writing nearly 50 years now. I do it out of habit more then just because I want to. Meaning if I sit down and try to write something, I;m wasting my time. But I just pick up my guitar and start playing without intention, well that's how it happens for me. Even after all these years. It's fun to go back 30 or 40 years and listen to songs I've written and compare myself to what I write now. Big changes but at the same time, those early 3 chord songs were some of the most fun times! Appreciate you Dudes and your stories!
Thanks for sharing! Write on! CM
I can relate. After writing hundreds of songs, I don't believe I actually tried to write more than two or three. They just come out and say here I am I guess.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for reinforcing things that needed reinforcing, and getting me right back on track.
I spent so many years writing lyrics for others (because I didn't have the recording skills) and neglected my own full songwriting.
Now, I'm just going to press on and do my best with my solo songs.
Your observations have been very helpful indeed.
Good to know that even those who have managed to make a bigger success have faced the same obstacles and overcame them.
Big respect to you guys,
Jules (Julian Wilson UK)
Glad to help! Write on! Marty and I are in the UK this weekend if you're around this event, stop by and say hello! songmasters.co.uk/
I write music as a hobby and I particularly like that tip about making the song reflect one idea. Normally I do that and have been slogging through a recent song of mine, wrestling a chorus. As soon as I heard you say that my brain went “that’s why it’s a struggle!” Too many ideas and I need to distill further.
I had the same reaction!! Nailed it.
Once we figure that out, a lot of doors open up for our writing. Write on! ~CM
Yes. When I took up songwriting I found a new respect for hit writers from all backgrounds, and their skill at telling stories in three verses and a chorus. Sometimes even less.
@@gregwork49 Write on! ~CM
Thanks for putting together this list. Much appreciated.
You're welcome. Write on! CM
I really love the last point the most. I am an amateur gospel song writer. When I get chances to play at various churches I never start out by saying, "I wrote this song". I just get up and do my thing and let the song speak for itself. When people comment later on the song (they almost always do), that's when I will say sometthing about my writing.
Write on! Appreciate you sharing your journey. CM
It's hard sifting through all the noise on social to find good legitimate advice and resources. Thank you!
You’re welcome! Write on! CM
Number one s so correct. I remember John Lennon saying how 'In my life' was intended to be an homage to all the things that held significance for him regarding his city as he took the bus from home going downtown. The first results were precisely as you explained. Everything was there, but it was a soulless list.
This is more of a pop songwriting thing, but what always gets me is when a song finds new ways to tie back into the theme, usually by flipping a common expression. An example off the top of my head is in the second verse of Chappell Roan's Hot To Go with the line "no one's touched me there in a damn hot minute." It matches the song's existing references to heat and time, and it reinforces the thesis statement.
I have the day off and I'm getting ready to sit down and use all of these things that you've discussed see if I can't write a simple little country tune about a girl that I lost
I’m new to writing. It’s daunting and amazing and a rush. I just found your channel and have been chewing on all of the wisdom and experience that you two are sharing in this video. Especially the “furniture” comments. Thank you! I’m leaving inspired… and I’ll be back!
Write on! CM
I think a great song is more than just a great lyric. I know Nashville is all about the story. But so much country sounds kinda the same. Same 4 chords. Same kind of solos. Same kind of big chorus I’m concentrating on just being myself and finding my own sound and style. Not writing in a genre. Just writing from the heart and being honest. Also today many of us have home studios where we can really craft and sculpt our own tracks the way we hear them and not hiring the same Nashville studio guys who play on thousands of songs. Thanks for this list !
I couldn’t agree more, that great songs are definitely more than just lyrics. And if you’ve listened to Country over the last couple years, there are all styles of music represented in the top 10. And the majority of songs no longer have the incredible session players that used to play on all the records. There are a ton of guys building tracks on computers now in Nashville. ( I actually started doing that in NYC in the 90's so I can relate). It’s a great mix right now of tracks and players. As someone who’s been fortunate to have hits and has worked in multiple genres over the years, it’s good seeing things opening up. -CM
@ very cool. Hey I grew up in NYC too. Early midi studios in the 80s. Thought about moving to Nashville to open up a studio as I’m a one man band multi instrumentalist. Singer songwriter producer engineer and picker! I’m up in Vancouver though. Love doing roots and country Good to hear it’s not the same old down there.
@@brooklynboy1000 Yes, I had an Atari 1040 computer with a midi port and a room full of synths in the 80's. I worked at Manny's music on 48th and then opened my own studio. Those were those days. Technology was so new and we were riding the wave! Love Vacouver! ~CM
@ I had the Commodore 64 and the 1040
Too. Dr T. Which became Notator. Eventually emagic and Logic. I Bought a Korg M1 from Sam Ash on 48th. Had many other synths and drum machines too. Was a good time to learn all that I used to go to Mannys, Rudy’s and 48th St Guitars. Do you remember the Electro Harmonix store? That was like 1977. Those were the days !
@@brooklynboy1000 I used Notator as well. I don't remember Electro Harmonix. I got to the City in '81. Good times! ~CM
That guy with the tape at the festival: "why write more?"
Because writing songs is FUN!!!!
100%! Write on!~CM
I thought when I started that I was lucky to have 8 melodies. Period. I assumed that was it and that my brain was finished creating music, but phrases and 2 bar segments just kept coming just begging to be combined with that perfect partner. Even years later as soon as I feel I'm tapped out, I wait a while and at some point start pairing together unremarkable bits with bland phrases to make lines that I have to hear 20 times. That 's a great moment when all these dull bits and scattered bars can be fashioned into something wonderful.
Great video, lots of great songwriting advice! Two words, in my opinion, that will bring people back to listen to your song over and over: Vocal Melody. Especially in pop/rock music. If it's memorable and they can hum or song along to it, you have a winner. The Beatles were the kings of catchy vocal melodies. You can take away the backing music from their songs and the vocal melodies still pull you in. The music surrounding their vocal melodies and the intruments used in the songs were just the icing on the cake. Again, just my opinion. 😊🎵🎶
I really enjoyed point 9. The idea of lyrical contrast is a really strong concept for crafting a song that keeps the listener engaged
Yes! Contrast is huge in songs, art, and life :) CM
I was skeptical of the advice before playing the video but I feel like you guys are giving genuinely good advice. Good stuff.
Wow, thanks for this video. Pointed out problems I didn’t know I had with my music. these will definitely help me
Glad to help! Write on! CM
Well said, insightful, and much appreciated!
Good stuff. I think the whole radio thing is that there is a lot of really good music that will never make it onto radio for whatever reason (length, audience, complexity, etc.). You might be writing better quality songs that what you're hearing on the radio, but your music needs to be marketable and interesting to a fairly wide swath of the populace. I don't think radio should be used as the bar for good songwriting though.
I think the point is more if your saying "my songs are better than whats on tge radio and the radio's only not playing it yet because tghey dont know about it or the right person ahant heard it yet"
I've been writing songs for 30 years and this is great advice for any song smiths out there. It's a great reminder for me also! subscribed thanks!
Apreciate ya! Write on! CM
Thank you for your tips and advice!
This is a great interview not just for song writing but any kind of writing. Great video, great advice- all creatives can benefit from these tips.
Write on! Thanks for letting us know. CM
Funny. When you were giving a story song example for the Time Jumping segment--"the kids 10 years old...then he's going off to college...then he's getting married"--you basically described Harry Chapin's song, "The Cat's in the Cradle." LOL.
These are GREAT tips!😌
Still watching, but so far this video is Incredibly valuable!! Thank you for taking time to help amateurs like myself understand and learn what we can improve in our song writing.
You’re very welcome! Write on! CM
I play at open mics all the time, so I'll give you some of my pet peeves about original songs I hear: 1. No understanding of how to construct a song ... no coherent chord construction. 2. No sense of melody .... just noodling. 3. Waaaaay too long: trying to write their life story. I'd say 1 in 50 that I hear gets my interest. Now, I will admit, I don't write songs because I've never come up with anything better than the zillion great songs that are already out there ... I look for obscure songs that are cool and cover them in my own way. I hear all the time "hey, did you write that?" I just smile, non-commitally ... no, I always give credit to the song writer.
Awesome points! Great songs that are a little more unique do tend to get more notice! CM
I see good songwriting as a snapshot of time. Where you can even taste the air and experience the story with many senses. We get transported to the writers experience.
You’d probably be a good producer. Too bad it’s hard to give advice to open mic songwriters.
@@JamieRyou’re so handsome
😊😊😊😅😅😅
Thoroughly enjoyed, simply being a sponge in this moment, humility, passion, sincerity, in my minds eye I was sharing coffee with you, just listening. Absolutely love this content. Thank you
Glad you’re here and you’re very welcome! CM
Kudos for the That Pedal Show Hoodie! This is really helpful advice. As a songwriter who is trying to build material for my next album this is key :)
Always love supporting the TPS show. Glad you found us. Write on! ~CM
Even after writing hundreds of songs I quite often struggle to be satisfied with the final product, I've never really thought about being better than anyone's songs as we all relate to different stories & styles, I'm happy if I manage to portray the moment/story and feeling I want my song to tell.
I've found if I come back to songs I've written a few weeks later with a fresh perspective, there are plenty I think are average of even crap which often makes the better ones stand out and seem to have better flow and tell the songs story the way I want.
Out of all the songs I've written there are only about a dozen or so that I'm close to being completely satisfied with.
Sometimes the words are really hard to come up with but playing the guitar and humming the melody giving the Cadence singing The Melody to the song will inspire a writer that has lots of lyrics into that timing and Cadence
A big pet peeve of mine in songwriting is by no means exclusive to amateurs, and maybe that's why it wasn't included here. It's when the lyric has the emphasis on the wrong syllable of a word or on the wrong word in a line. It is a connection killer. All of a sudden the listener (or me at least,) stops paying attention to the lyrics and thinks did she just sing "gor-GEOUS wo-MAN?" (That's an example from Alanis Morissette.) Now and then it can squeak by and be fine, but most of the time it's like a neon light and so easily fixed.
Lyrics that flow and are natural or music are important! Thx for bringing it up! CM
I understand what you mean. That used to bother me too, but then I realized it's a rule that gets broken _constantly_ by the biggest hit songs, including many songs that move me deeply.
I'm glad you brought up Alanis as she does this often, yet Jagged Little Pill is considered a masterpiece by many.
I still notice it all the time (once you see it, you can't un-see it), but I try not to judge it so harshly.
I like to say we have tools, not rules. Write on! ~CM
@@SongTownUSA I like it!
that’s prosodic dissonance
i have a fairly nice library of songs. all genres, that I have written and surprisingly folks like them from around the world and i was shocked when folks wanted to cover a few, and I never did music for the money and i have never thought my tunes were better than any song out there on the radio or not, i just write what i feel and people seem to pick it up, because a lot of them learn my lyrics and sing them at me...trips me out man. but grateful for even what I hve gotten from music and how I am blessed to e able to still be doing it 40 years later, just had a hard time living sso i never got to let many folks other than the fans i managed to get on music websites and social media... met some great artists back then, and i write a new song every single day, still never got anything out thee mainstreeam I suppose...and I still dont mind, I make people feel my songs and I aint questionin it.
Thx guys. Good stuff.
I felt hope and then some dispair. I had it in my hands only to discover it was running through my fingers. 😉
I love that you're quick to admit "We've been there" and let the viewers know that you're on their side and rooting for them.
Always! CM
The first point made in this video,,,I could not agree more.
Humm, I love lyrics that are somewhat unclear as to what is the exact meaning of the song. So much so that people can understand the story totally differently. So I tend to do the same things and I purposely keep things a little cryptic.
Then you would like my songs LOL
Agree. That's the art. If you write very literally, you may as well just write a book or something. No need to try to set literal information to music.
@@davidhurley5032 Bingo! my thoughts exactly.
That's what made Lennon so great. Ambiguity. The less specific you are, the more people can relate.
I tend to yo in this direction too instead of telling a story.
I love the tips! I've been writing songs and I've been trying to figure out how good they are, so this is a great starting point for me!
Write on! CM
Good tips thanks fellas. Since you’re doing video, I’ll suggest one mistake that pegs you as an amateur videographer - putting the “look space” on the wrong side. If your body is angled to the left, you shouldn’t have more room over your right shoulder. In your case it’s tricky because your bodies are facing one way and your heads are turning the other way. So when you’re addressing each other it looks ok, but at rest it looks amateur.
They will literally let anyone have a camera these days 😂. Good thing we write songs! Seriously, any suggestions for dealing with the tiny square box room we are sert up it, is appreciated. Cheers, CM
Decades ago, I also noticed some tuneful, memorable and lovely songs on the radio played ALL the TIME-------in France. I find 'em on UA-cam and they still sound marvelous though the synth dates them. Not one ever made it to the USA to my knowledge. Zero recognition here even with some of the catchiest, ear worm melodies.
One thought I had, and maybe it's well known so doesn't need to be mentioned, but if you have an idea for a song...write it all the way out...even if you don't know all the words yet, but get the whole "idea" onto a recording or paper, or whatever. Then, you've at least got a complete idea, and you can go back and fine-tune it from there. For me, this has been the hardest part of my songwriting journey, getting a great idea, singing into a recording device. Then walking away. Not finishing anything. I don't know if my song-writing skills are decent at all because I complete a verse and a chorus, and I'm spent!! :)
This is a great video. It's two experienced musicians/writers in polite, casual conversation.
The good news for me is that I never had too much furniture, just like in my everyday life.
More good news is that I NEVER thought highly of what I had written. I only put them out in the world very sparingly. I knew they were just sketches and was very hesitant to share them. I have had people ask me what I thought of their music and felt awkward when I didn't like it.
I don't think I pronoun jumped. I'd have to go back and listen, which I rarely do. When I do listed I get ready to cringe but usually end up thinking, "not bad for a first effort". One thing I do notice is that I never got around to writing a decent drum track even though that's the only instrument I can actually play :) That's how much of a sketch they are :)
I don't think I time jumped but my stuff wasn't complicated enough to travel through time.
I learned by myself not to be slave to the rhyme. Even though it was prevalent, I knew that I had learn to stay away. I didn't want to make the mistake the early Beatles made :) Was I too rhymie? Again, I'd have to check.
Songtown seems like a win win situation. If there was a place to drop off sketches I'd do it in a heartbeat with zero expectations. A one in a million chance is still a chance and there would be no down side because they probably suck anyway. :)
As far as 'same old' it could be. I probably lifted every riff from something I heard. I find myself thinking of a melody after leaving a restaurant where I probably unconsciously hear it playing in the background. My songs have no guitar in them because I only had rudimentary instrument samples to work with.
Too many ideas in one song? Heh heh. I'm not that deep :)
The lyrical contrast reminded me of Missing You. You knew how it was going to end but he made you wait until the end :)
I believe I used some contrast. If not, I will be sure to apply it on my next album.
Again, great video. I'm glad I watched it.
Wow. This is really great! I think this is a good list for even naturally talented songwriters that do have a gift, to be able to see what they're doing wrong. Many times list can be obvious, but this had really good ones for even seasoned writers.
Not having an ending!
I once saw a singer-songwriter open for a major act, and he talked about how he had just written ten songs the day before, so that’s all he played.
And NONE of them had a proper ending - they just stopped.
That's always awkward! ~CM
I find that all my best songs are quickly done, from idea to recording, what takes a long time for me is singing that song in all its parts 100 times each, giving it a few days then going back to record it again. its at that time I know if I have a good song, if its something that I'm working at so much that I start to hate the song ill throw it away because my hate for that song will be obvious in the final recording
Great info as always. Maybe in a furure video could touch on performing songwriter vs non-performing singwriter.. Thanks
Great suggestion!
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.
Loving your videos! I love the art of songwriting and hearing your stories about what it's like behind the curtain is fascinating. Thank you!
Thanks a lot! We're stoked you’re loving the vids. Write on! CM
rhyming (and synonym) dictionaries can be a great tool as long as you don't let it get in the way of what you're trying to say.
A lot of times, I find that when a line ends with a word that does not rhyme, it has more impact.
@@lumberpilot I'm even dispensing with any rhyming at all for most of my songs in the last ten years or so! I want to tell a story, not a nursery rhyme most of the time. I'm not totally going "free-verse," but if nothing else, I just want to get my raw emotion down for later on, to see if I can boil it down into a more manageable piece. At least I have a start, even if it's not a very good start.
@@snickpickle Internal rhymes are sometimes better than end-of-line rhymes.
That's the thing about lyrics, lol
I love all the great singing, playing and overall the musical demonstrations in this video.
As the man on the right said, putting down all words you can think of (regarding a very specific topic) is not a bad idea. It's what you make out of these words. You gotta keep your specific topic in mind and bring it across very clearly.
Write on! CM
Thanks very much for the enlightening discussion!
I’m a fan of the circled word (clustering) exercise you mentioned. Though I feel it can go deeper than just generating furniture. The way the word cluster develops and the stories that are suggested through the window of the cluster can be a very liberating approach.
In my experience it requires seeing beyond the ‘list’ and letting the list suggest a story through word relationships.
The book “writing the natural way” goes deep into this method.
Thanks for sharing your strategy! Write on! CM
Id say learning to construct a song is paramount.
In regards to general arrangement I think when you originally start out the first rule is the old one...'Don't bore us get to the chorus ' and then I found just get to work on looking for new music and copy your way to originality lol
this is all very good and true, people should really listen.
Thank you SO much, guys. I had never heard of Gene Cotton or the song Me & The Elephant. But I’m embarrassed to say I have listened to it at least 10 times today. What a touching little song. I know when a song is well written because, when it is, a little voice inside me says, “God, I wish I had written that.” That’s my yardstick. Anyways, there is nothing better than finding a new favorite song that makes you obsess over it for a little while. Shame that this one is virtually forgotten and not on Apple Music. Anyways, thank you, guys. You blessed me today.
Thanks for sharing that with us! CM
I feel uncomfortable with the notion that "currently marketable" = "great"
I don't think this was really what you're saying - but I just feel that the venn diagram of "Great songs" and "songs I hear on the radio" doesn't have a whole lot of overlap. I suppose if you play something for 10 people whose tastes you respect or who represent the sensibility you're going after... and they tell you back to the drawing board, the point makes sense.
Nailed it.
These tips seem obvious, once you know them. But you don't know what you don't know until you know it! Cheers for the awesome tips! Subbed!
Appreciate it! Write in! CM
Great points guys, appreciate it. Especially the one about worthiness. I study some with Victor Wooten and he always says to worry less about finding opportunity and more about being worthy of it when it comes.
Exactly. If Victor was not known and he possessed all his skills and knowledge, he would become known quickly. You can’t competence! CM
@@SongTownUSA That's right. Regarding this point, I like to reference the scene in the movie Major League when Wesley Snipes character wakes up to the sound of a starting pistol. He jumps up and in his pajamas catches the two players racing and beats them. The assistant manager shows the manager the time on the stop watch and the he says, "Get him a uniform." Similar to the story you all told about the song that moved everyone at the songwriting workshop. In other words, worry less about being discovered and more about being worth finding. Thanks for the great discussion, fellas!
@@SongTownUSA ua-cam.com/video/hcvSFO4TuB8/v-deo.html
I will use the victor quote in a future episode. I love it!
Really enjoyed this convo. thanks guys!
Our pleasure! Write on! CM
The Contrast point is Gold. :)
It should be #1 for sure! CM
Gonna write out that list and compare it to that tunes I'm proud of. Pretty sure it'll be back to the drawing board on alot of them:) Great clip guys.
this is the best songwriting video i’ve seen on youtube. not simple tips, but tangible things you can take away that fit in everybody’s senario. thank you🤙🏼
Glad it was helpful! We share what we do everyday n writing rooms. Write on! CM
Home run as usual, here! It looks like the majority of pages in my personal songwriting instructional handbook are being filled with my notes from these SongTown gems. It may be time to join! Many thanks, from CJ Runyon in Southern Illinois!
Awesome. We’d love to have ya in town. Write on! Clay
Great stuff. "Too much furniture. What makes me wanna give a crap. It's about the song's story." Except how many hit songs currently on Spotify have a good storyline? Or any storyline at all?
Yes. Not all songs have to be stories but definitely need to make you feel :) CM
There's a clear difference between writing to tell and writing to sell. I don't believe these guys are discussing the latter
I've always made it a point to try and write great songs that are still commercial. Commercial just means a lot of people have heard it... I don't think you have to choose one or another. Writing to sell was definitely never the driving factor. I'm thankful it's worked out well for me in my career. ~CM
Funny thing, when you mentioned the ‘beach song’ example, I couldn’t help think of a tune I have been working off and on about the Jersey Boardwalk in the off season. Always view it as a Bruce or more retrospective turn for Bon Jovi piece. Interesting.
More recently, I went out for a second hip op. Prior to, I gave myself a music project. I studied early Beatles pieces then came up with a chord structure and list of criteria which I felt defined songs of the early Beatles era. I then set out to write and record an original intent on capturing the ‘early Beatles vibe’. Sans The Weeklings. As of this writing (12-6-24) a rough demo of the arrangement has been recorded. A project like this is a great way to develop song writing tools geared to a more succinct product overall. Yeah, length and lack of dynamic pressence is always a quick track to the ‘blahs’.
Interesting video! Tapping the subscribe tab for sure!
Glad the video is helpful, write on! CM
The lyric contrast advice is gold!!!
Thanks for letting us know. Write on! CM
When I work on a song, I often feel like every line could be its own song. I don’t want to waste all those ideas on just one song. I could turn it into a song like "Like A Rolling Stone" where new versus just keeping or split it into several songs, but they might end up sounding too similar. Maybe the best approach is to focus on picking only the best lines to create one great song, rather than ending up with a bunch of mediocre ones.
Nothing wrong with experimenting with different approaches to find what works best for ya. Write on! CM
@@SongTownUSA I have a question I’m trying to craft a country style. That is a tight harmony like a cappella group such as Pentatonix, but has instruments.
I noticed many people can't stay with the Basic theme . It starts one way and then they go off into all directions ( lyrically) .
Good stuff, thanks for the tips!
You bet! Write on! CM
How can I talk to a publisher? I’ve tried to contact them but never get a reply
Songtown connects writers when your songs are truly ready, to work monthly with publishers in our SongTown Edge groups: songtown.com/edge-groups/
It's a deep subject. Research alot! I'll probably use an administrative publisher and set up my own account with ascap
The first five to 10 words in a song are everything when I write it's usually with a handful of lyrics figure out how to sing them and then I can just hear what the guitar should be underneath of it I sit down and figure it out
I decided 5 years ago to do this all on my own because I just got tired of messing around with musicians that weren't going to cut the mustard now I'm realizing that I just needed to step up my class of musician
Hey guys do you have an example of a song sheet? layout? Thanks
Lyrics?
I love a good setup line! a band that was really good at that was *drum roll* the Beatles haha. examples: Ticket to Ride, Hard Day's Night, 8 days a week to name a few
Write on! CM
Excellent info here. Thanks. \m/
Write on! CM
I always wonder what the pros would say to me. On my 2nd and 3rd draft, i try to find the parts i hate the most and act as my own critic to make each line more important. Lots of ironing, but it doesn't take too long, at least.
Sounds like you have a process that’s working for ya. Write on! CM
@SongTownUSA It gets the songs done, that's for sure. Lol! I do feel like I'm flailing wildly as I get closer to a bullseye by accident. XD
My primary goal is just to put in reps.
Don' t be a rhyme slave was my big takeaway but all the points were great advice too thanks.
Write on! CM
What I do is journal everyday. In the morning one I write how I feel about starting the day and how I want to respond.
At night I recap if I did what I wanted then o just brainstorm my thoughts and feelings and desires and lyrics start to form as I hum it as a melody
Write on! CM
Good points. I heard of Clay Mills through a collaborating friend of mine. And he told me Clay knows his stuff. One common thing as a failure I have found with many many songwriters is bad bad grammar! These days with rap or hip hop being so in demand, people seem to have lost the focus of grammar. I know there's one thing to have a two particular about it. I know lots of country songs have the word ain't and that's fine. But some of the grammar is just so juvenile and tarnishing to what might be a good song. These days it looks like the game has changed. Which is detrimental. But there are some popular song writers who are in the right place at the right time and by the grace of God, some would say a quirk in the universe who could be considered less than to the standards. And in the industry if there's anything that even remotely seems to be a possibility, by the process of over promotion and bombardment to the general public, the people will love the song and make it great on their own. I'm a very very serious songwriting lyricist who became a poet at first with around 100 collaborations. But until they are in the right hands, I'm a nobody.
Right! The song that comes to mind is Landslide by Fleetwood Mac. The snow-covered hills can produce an avalanche, but she calls it a Landslide and the song is a classic.
@mommy-conmed I agree even though personally I was more partial to Christine's writings and music. And I thought she had the most beautifully sincere voice.
Nah, English sux.
Instead of pronouns, omit subjects as well. The more vague and disjointed it is the more interpretive it is. Then just refuse to use English.
HOWEVER, latin is good, we need more grammatically proper Gregorian chants in edm.
Some of the rap is terribly written.
@ktrock77 I agree. Probably by people who don't respect the English language!
Damn I’m glad I found this video, So much truth that can be humbling but growth comes from being humbled. Excellent points and advice. Great Video, Thank You Very Much for being honest. You’ve gained a new subscriber
Glad it was helpful and welcome. Write on! CM
@ the song writing is a constantly turning gear, it’s how we are Wired from the Factory, lol… Cheers from Fort Mitchell, Alabama!
I grew up in Bama! Cheer, Clay
Great stuff guys!
Great insights!! Thx u
You're welcome! Thanks for letting us know. ~CM
Great advice Clay and Marty!!! You guys KNOW!!!
Thanks! Appreciate you watching and letting us know! Write on! CM
I love the idea of "too much furniture" ruining a song. A lot of great nuggets of wisdom here. I'm glad I found y'alls channel!
Good to have ya here. Write on! CM
I attended a seminar and I submitted a " new" song that I wrote. It was a well produced demo that said Nothing! I was quickly humbled and went back to my roots. I've written some good stuff that I've played in public and they were well received. I'm almost finished with a project, looking for a publisher. How do I properly go about doing this.
Congrats on discovering that it all starts with a great song. Is your project your own artist project?
@SongTownUSA yes , jazz, rock, ballads . I'd call some of them timeless
Write on! CM
If you can play a beat and base the beat on words you are going to get it completed with reason. I just put on a tone generator and sing along with a tone while playing the beat along with singing. Nothing is written down. I stopped writing when I broke my disposable pencil tips. Why do I need to write it down when I can use the tone and the drums to create something higher?
Regarding "Slave to the Rhyme," some of the best songwriters aren't afraid to use half-rhymes or even non-rhymes when it serves the song.
Write on! CM
In addition, I’m not a big fan of rhyming a word with the same word, like rhyming “guy” with “guy.”
I have heard it done well. Where you rhyme the 3rd from last word of each line and the last word is the same. For me, it depends on the context and how well the song is written, or not.
When a rapper does it, it's called Narration.
A good song is just the prerequisite to be in the running
I never think my songs are better, but I do wonder, if people heard this in a playlist, genre dependent of course, would it catch someone’s interest to stand on its own merit??
Ultimately, I like writing and producing what I want to hear.
But like J Mascis said, surely someone else out there wants to listen to what I’m creating.
(Not a direct quote)
But it does make you think.
I always think if you write it well, communicate well, and come from a real place, a song can move a lot of people. Write on! CM
Love Kenny’s Blue chair. Plenty of emotion in my opinion
Very real song for Kenny!
Some things drop together in an evening, and other stuff takes 10 years for the right matching concept to come to be. Should I be concerned about that, or just let it come together naturally?
Songs can take what they take as far as time. There are things you can do like writing a little everyday, to improve and train your creativity to show up more on demand. But if you are enjoying your process, that is ultimately all that matters. Write on! CM
Another great one, guys!
Really valuable advice here. Thanks guys.
As a songwriter, how I have never seen this podcast before? LOVE THIS VIDEO!
Good to have you in town! Write on! CM