Stone Foundation & Spray Foam Insulation
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Should spray foam insulation be used on a stone foundation?
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I’ve done a ton of these over the years, huge improvement in these areas. Just make sure it’s nice and dry.
Agreed. Hello Tim.
Can you enlighten me on how to do this? The foundation has to be dry? The stones? Humidity? Condensation?
I’m the homeowner and also a professional in the Spray Foam industry, currently working on a unique project involving a 200-year-old brick colonial home in Maine. The home is perched on a granite lift, resting on a substantial stone foundation. Notably, the foundation consists of large stones with minimal rubble, yet we’ve identified a few areas with water intrusion. To address this, I plan to excavate around the foundation for waterproofing and have several questions regarding the best approach for both interior and exterior waterproofing and drainage solutions.
1. Exterior Waterproofing Options: For the exterior, I’m considering two different strategies. The first involves a traditional membrane or board product, depending on the condition of the outer wall post-excavation. The alternative is applying a 1-inch layer of Spray Foam topped with a polyurea coating. Could you share your thoughts on the effectiveness and longevity of these options, particularly in a climate like Maine’s?
2. Interior Waterproofing and Drainage Strategy: Inside, I plan to install a dimple mat up to the exterior grade, covering it with 2 inches of Spray Foam from the band (or rim) joist area down over the stone above grade. This setup is designed to direct any moisture that bypasses the exterior defenses down into a perimeter drain, leading to the interior perimeter drainage system beneath a future concrete slab. How does this plan sound to you, especially the integration of the dimple mat with the Spray Foam? Are there any potential issues or improvements you’d suggest?
3. Locking in the Dimple Mat with Spray Foam: I intend to lock the dimple mat in place by spraying foam over it down to the perimeter drainage area. Do you foresee any challenges with this approach in terms of moisture management or structural integrity?
4. Recommendations for a Historic Stone Foundation: Given the age and unique construction of the foundation (large stone base, minimal rubble), are there any specific considerations or modifications to the standard approach that you would recommend?
And can you do a video on how to compensate your temperatures and hose heat for the cold weather
where does foam come out for fire codes? doesnt it have to be covered with a one hour rated material ie sheetrock - so its required to be framed first?
Can you do a video on pressure imbalances and how to diagnose them on a graco machine
"Bill was paid right away." Glad you slipped that in there Mike!
How long would it take for stones to rot without breathable air? Also limestone mortar will turn to sand after so many years and therefore the foam would have to removed eventually for repointing. This is not a repointing replacement as foam does not have the structural rigidity that mortar would have.
Stones to rot??
@@SprayJones when exposed to water and not allowed to breath, stone, specifically limestone will become brittle and deteriorate as they are subject to hydrostatic pressure. This is why it is not recommended to paint rubble foundations with any thing but a limestone-based cement parge.
It might be better to create a false 2x4 wall and spray foam that so it may be removed for future repointing. A lot more work but you won't have to replace your foundation wall x amount of years once the mortar or stone starts to break down past the point of repair
@@nathanlothamer4570 One side of the stone is always exposed.
This is not limestone.
Water going through the wall via cracked motor and allowing water to freeze in the spaces breaks the walls apart.
There is degradation because of the SPF.
Watch my video on old brick buildings and the debate about spraying them from the inside with SPF.
@SprayJones As long as one side is always exposed, spray foam shouldn't be an issue. It is when one side is covered with soil and hydrostatic pressure pushes the water through the mortar joints that this could become an issue. The other side will need to allow the water to weep.
Ice will destroy the mortar joints eventually, however repointing will stabilize the joints. Spray foam will significantly reduce the walls ability to weep the water and alleviate pressure. Adding an air gap as with most things should solve this issue i.e. false wall or furring the stone wall before applying spray foam. Without the air gap, you will probably have to remove the foam earlier than anticipated to repoint damage, if you are even able to spot it before structural damage becomes an issue.
I have a old farm house with a stone basement. Would the spray foam work to waterproof the stone foundation?
I'd try and seal the biggest cracks beforehand. I worry that if the wall is insulated and sealed, it will build up water from the outside, then freeze-thaw and get damaged.
Hi Spray Jones!! I have a fieldstone wall with deep groves between the stones... it looks good but deep... I want to just spray foam it and I like the idea of the foam getting deep between stones... but wanted to ask you if you thought I should parge first? Thanks for all your content and experience
Don't have enough info so say.
I did a brick basement once where the majority of the bricks were loose - we sprayed it anyhow and locked them in.
When we decided to put an addition on the house, we decided to add a full basement underneath for storage. A large portion of the house is a crawl space. The house was built in the late 70s with a poorly poured concrete foundation. When we bought the house I found leaves and nuts in the crawl... thinking this can't be good. They messed up the foundation so bad they added a cinder block to make the height work leaving gaps between the foundation and floor joists everywhere, making a great spot for wasps and mice. After much research and finally finding your channel, I decided to have the addition, crawl, and entire foundation done with spray foam. Thank you for the details about using spray foam. My house is finally airtight, and no longer an option for mice. Thank you again for your great videos.
Get testimony. Cheers.
Hi my foundation is stone as well how about moisture behind the spray foam and get mold
No issues.
I did this on in our stone wall basement in New England after watching tons of videos from Spray Jones. We went with 2 inches of closed cell and it’s night and day. All the drafts are gone, the basement is warmer, very happy. I did hope to not have any humidity in the summer, but we still do. Maybe it’s coming up through the concrete floor.
I repointed the entire basement, then had them spray directly floor to ceiling. Like others, I had thought about dimple board, etc to let it breathe, but in the end I felt better about just locking it all together with a direct application. A part of that was to avoid humidity, which I mentioned above is ultimately still a problem, so in my opinion I don’t think you can go wrong either way.
Thanks Mike for these amazing videos. I also sprayed 4 inches onto the roof deck and 2 onto the gable walls while converting an attic to a living space at the same time thanks to your advice. The performance of closed cell is unbelievable.
Great feedback. See the people who get it, get foam...
Seal all your cracks in your concrete floor. Apply Epoxy Sealer to your floor. That should help tremendously with humidity. Also a 12" solar fan to help move air around ...
I had the humidity issue with the crawl space as well.
I had a company come in and spray 2" on the floor and to cap the 2.5" rigid board foam insulation on the walls.
Spraying the crawl space floor and installing heat ducts and a cold air return in the crawl space resolved my house humidity issues.
Despite watching Spray Jones videos and taking the precautions he mentioned regarding installers, my job still wasn't done quite right. Foam is 3'4" thick in some spots and 2.5 or greater in others.... Regardless, it is doing the job and has "encapsulated" the crawl space at a fraction of the cost it would have taken to lay plastic down....
I’m in Nova Scotia and did the same thing. Here it’s recommended to stop a foot above the floor for some reason. We installed drain tile around the foundation (less worry about wall collapse because spray foam) and re graded the yard.
@@aaronlohr8477that’s interesting. I’m also in Nova Scotia, and just purchased a 100 year old house that we’ve been renovating. It has what I call a 75% stone 25% brick foundation. I know that sounds mental, and it is lol. So essentially the stone goes from the floor upwards to maybe 5 feet or so and then brick was placed on top of that (load bearing brick) later on to increase the height many years back of the basement (that’s my best guess).
We have a trench that essentially runs the entire span of the basement that runs out through a hole in the concrete floor. We haven’t seen much water come in on the basement walls, but have seen lots of frost on the bricks in certain areas.
I’ve read that it’s not wise to disturb the ground around old foundations for structural reasons as the house already settled over the years. Did you guys do that and add weeping tile around your home? How did it work out?
As of now we don’t have any weeping tile. We thought about just getting a brand new foundation put in but haven’t heard back on the quote yet. Guessing upwards of 70k for that job.
I recently purchased and am renovating a farm house in SE Alberta that is all a stone foundation like this. Only catch is it was built in the 90’s not 120 years ago. I hope some day one of your trucks gets lost and drives in my yard looking for directions. It would be a good day. Haha
1880 stone foundation on a boston victorian. I have gone around and pointed all the joints between the rocks and covered with drylok. I built a stud wall all around the inside perimeter but in places its pretty deep, 4-8 inches from the inside wall plane to the stone. Its hugely expensive to completely fill that space with closed cell. I am thinking about just filling the space behind the studs, maybe 2-3 inches, with spray foam, then finish off between the studs with cut polyiso panels, then drywall. that would leave an irregular air gap between the studwall and the outside spray foar surface. Any thoughts? Would that gap need to be vented?
If the stone was below grade and there was no hydrostatic issues, would closed cell spray foam still be a good choice? Thank you in advance.
When we have a full height stone foundation, we will install an interior drainage system and install a linner up the wall a few feet as needed to allow water control.
Then foam the whole wall top to bottom
I have a small area in my basement with sturdy packed dirt wall (about 4' tall and 11' wide). Would this cover it effectively? Thanks,
Yes
Gotta take this win - first post and thumbs up!! Bob in Nevada
Is that Demalack?
Yes.... Huntsman is their name now.
I can doing it spry
Is there a problem with mold or hydro static pressure since the stone can't breathe with the spray foam?
For starters what does mold need in order to grow in the first place? Food, air and water. SPF removes the water & air issue.
The SPF does not change hydro static pressure.
I've been thinking about getting into Spray Foam when I started looking for a contractor in my Area, and only found 1 at the time.
What kind of cost do you think it would take to get into the business?
Go watch the video I made on it.
Looks good and warm to me! North Carolina.
I have a stone foundation, and my plan is to re-tuck the grout joints, the use a dimple may to allow for drainage down to a drain tile. Then the plan is to spray foam on top of that to provide insulation and additional air sealing.
Would you recommend that as a solution, or would you still spray foam tite against the wall with (slight) water intrusion issues?
Tight is usually right.....
How does this product handle the Moisture from the basement
Stops it.
Estimate cost per square foot?
AJ your rep for Huntsman ?
Any chance you could do a vid with your opinion on hot humid climates. I’ve been watching for a couple of years & maybe missed it. Planning a new build in coastal Mississippi. I’m convinced, due to your expertise, that closed cell is superior in almost all cases. I’m trying to build the most energy efficient home with the highest possible indoor air quality possible. My wife has asthma and I am compelled to provide her with a healthy home with the lowest possible long term cost of ownership.
Thanks for sharing!!
I like closed cell for the south. You will like the 5 part series launching this week.
Thank you for the response! I am already excited to see it. I know you cover this area but the information is very valuable. I’m expecting to share it the best local guy I can find & instruct him. Most sf guys here automatically try to tell me how I’m wrong & try to convince me that open cell is better. 🤯
Thanks again for sharing and leading!!!
Would you spray foam the outside instead of the inside? 1890 home with minimal crawl space thats 1 to 2 ft high, i figured digging the outside and spray foaming would be easier and protect the stone from freeze/thaw while also air sealing it..
Inside. Less to go wrong and need to protect. Provided there is enough room to spray.
@Spray Jones by go wrong do you mean spraying the siding and whatnot?
The inside isnt accessible and the outside is easier to dig out for obvious reasons..
I see a lot of local contractors here parge the the stone walls and then apply liquid rubberized coatings and i just feel like thats a much worse option than spray foam which in the least adds to the structure/bonds everything..
As always, spray jones should start a school for spray foamers and do online seminars because you have solutions and answers to most of building structure issues which is 2lb foam.
Can you seal the outside AND inside of a foundation, or is that bad?
That is fine. Usually choose one of the two.
Don't just add a foot or two in the hight and width. Throw in a few more loonies for the installer. I can tell that guy is pooped by the time he gets up on that ledge and has to butt-scoot along the work space.
Rico, would you spray for me at $100 per day? Maybe a $500 per day? Or $750?
Get the point?????
@@SprayJones Sure. I get it. I'd spray for what you are paying. Your guys are clearly good at what they do and well trained. And the easy jobs balance out the hard ones. But I usually throw the guys a 20 if it was unusually strenuous. More than the usual job, anyway.
And spraying that rock foundation is probably the single best thing you can do to improve comfort and durability
The water heater was wrapped. Was that cosmetic or another reason?
Over spray protection. Poly is cheap...
Poured walls came after block walls
You don't say...
Real interesting
what about termite inspections?
There are none in this detail. We are not in termite areas.
Would that stop water from coming through?
Yes, but It could puddle at the bottom of the wall.
Yes.
Is there any special preparation to the rock or mortar before you spray?
No
You should NEVER EVER spray foam on stone walls!!
Another one...