Hello... my nonprofit Social Media org (Worldie) will be working with American University in Washington DC soon in their NSF I-Corp program. DC is very into ethics, technology, safety, and social effects. Our team is totally midwest, northeast, Canada, and outside SV... I live in SV... for almost a year now.. it's anti-social, they don't care about things (apathetic), don't care about public figures, and they are lost with humanity bc it's workaholic here. I'm moving in 4+ months... Just letting you know, there's a tech4good and now (bc of us) there will be a social media for good too...
12:02 *"The only thing that grows exponentially in nature is cancer"* Not sure where that's from, but it's very wrong. You'll find exponential growth in bacteria, in electrical circuts, etc. There is usually a limitting factor that will cause the growth to slow down, making the larger point behind the incorrect statement, still valid: *exponential growth can't last forever in a finite system.* The petri dish will run out of food and space for hte bacteria, the capcitor will reach full charge, the cancer will run out of cells to spread to.
Ya there are a bunch of wrong statements in his talk, but sifting through there are some gems. His point stands about the exponential economic growth model being unsustainable however. And his comment about billionaires preparing for the societal crash is revealing. It’s as if they know their plan for world domination can backfire, and how to maintain control in that event is their concern. Leading me to believe in this case that these billionaires know that if a crash occurs it will be their fault. As an aside he seems a bit paranoid, maybe too many mushrooms?
Interesting chat, thought he was right about not necessarily needing tech when humans are really the ultimate tech, and that we are only just beginning to fully understand ourselves and our capabilities. For me personally, I would of liked to hear a thank you for him at the end, also offering him any last words of message to the audience. Thank you for sharing this video.
I really enjoyed this video and DR's warmth and playfulness. I think his comments on "white educated men" approaches to solving the world's problems is valid, even though I myself often enjoy what these men have to say. I am getting a growing sense, however, of the sensemaking world as one articulated mostly by people with theories and clarity (which I like) but where the messier, more playful and murkier aspects get left out. These messier bits are what I am longing for now, within myself and with others. What I loved about this interview is that DR speaks to all this, the spaces in between, where the real stuff happens (I believe). I agree with him that this is where the answers to our big problems, if there are any, exist. Another thing that struck me was the difference in the way both of you expressed yourselves: I can see why you might need to take the more impartial journalist interviewer's perspective, David, but I wonder if this conversation could have been more powerful if you were able to show your own responses to what Douglas was saying more. While I guess we just need to experience these things for ourselves, it is inspiring to see people in these settings having real responses to each other.
@@MarpLondon Point 1 was his point exactly. Did you listen to him? Skin color / race / identity / whatever wasn't the issue he was pointing to at all. He was simply acknowledging something factual.
Nooooooo!!! You changed the intro music?? I know its small, but that reverse delay tune you had was so fitting for this channel's content. It had such an air of ethereal wonderment, pensive ruminating, and other 50 cent artsy words... Maybe it's just for this video, and maybe I'm being a little bitch.. But I formally request a reconsideration of intro tune selection! XD Love you guys
This was a fascinating episode; I'd listen to it again. Rushkoff is a compelling, entertaining and thought-provoking teacher. In fact, I think if I ever need bad news delivered to me, I'd like Rushkoff to do it.
I was actually very encouraged by his experience with the billionaires. The fact that they are terrified and looking for a way to survive provides an opening for introducing them to Game B, which is exactly what Douglas did. Understanding that treating people like their welfare matters because you dont want them to kill you when you cant control them with money can be scaled to say, treat as many people as you can manage as if they matter now and you can stay above ground and avoid the miserable life of living in a bunker. The rich are not the demonic enemy, they are just like each of us trying to move towards happiness and away from pain. If we can show them how life can be better for them if they play Game B with us they may decide that it is well worth their efforts and resources to find a way to get into the game.
His comment about the feel of it being just middle aged white men working in this space was unsettling but true. But having given it some thought it makes sense to me that the people who have gone closer to the maximum heights of what this uber rational materialistic world can deliver be the first to discover the hollowness and danger in it. Those who have felt oppression for many centuries, hunger for the taste of power and success in this materialistic patriarchal world and may not be ready for a shift until they have tasted some of that same hollowness. So keep doing what you are doing, others will join and change the flavour of the music in your collective consciousness jam when we are ready. Be patient and continue to nurture this sacred space.
@@MarpLondon Hi M M, thanks for your reply. I was not commenting on how Silicon Valley or Rebel Wisdom was put together or even the intent or utility of their creation but It may clarify things if I do. It feels to me that Rebel Wisdom has created a space where well meaning, thoughtful people can gather to help us figure out a way to get out of the polarized mess we find ourselves in. I want to do everything I can to participate in a way that nurtures that good intent and thoughtfulness. I would also add that it does not matter who created and now dominates this space because we will need everyone to behave in a similar way to get out of this mess. It feels to me that we will need people from every back ground and social strata to add their voices in the same well intentioned and thoughtful manner but many are not ready for it since they are dealing with their own personal trauma or maybe just trying to survive or put food on the table. I like much of your description of the evolution of Silicon Valley though. Do you see Rebel Wisdom and similar spaces evolving in the same way.
@@MarpLondon I read your comments and feel that you have misunderstood the essence of my comments so I will try to clarify. I applaud the efforts of everyone who created works to maintain the Rebel Wisdom space. It feels to me that, for the most part, the Rebel Wisdom space has managed to move us past much of that lazy, defamatory chatter that now seems to dominate Social Media. It is because of this that I think it is okay to address Douglas's comment about a bunch of white guys discussing this. Daniel Schmactenberger and Jordan Hall made similar comments in their discussion with Jamie Wheal. They were simply stating a fact. I see more women and people of color being attracted to the channel all the time and I do all I can to trumpet its utility as well. I think we can continue to build this community naturally into something that can resonate with greater and greater magnitude with the rest of world and that would be a good thing because we will need everyone if we are to survive. It may be that we will need to seduce them with the authentic nurturing atmosphere we create in this space. But it cannot be based on bullshit, ignorance or political correctness. As far as being an insult to women or people of color, I do not see being Ultra Rational as a virtue even though I think anyone can be ultra rational. It feels to me like narrow rationalism has become a cult that dominates the social consciousness and has corrupted and stunted the common sense growth that began with the enlightenment
I agree that our job as 21st century humans to focus and excel on the things that are the hardest to automate. The least automizable skill I found had to do with meditation, mindfulness, self-inquiry and looking for the nature of my identity.
So much to unpack in this video. This is an incredible commentary on so many things that are going on. These men succeeded by gaming a system with a set of rules, so it stands to reason that they would be looking to continue the grift by continuing to game the rules past the apocalypse. Not one of them feels any sense of obligation to anyone but himself, which shouldn't be surprising I guess!
The erosion of the biosphere is key in all of this. Especially the trees. Nature is transmitting "background noise" all the time. As we wipe out the "scenery" or get humans away and surrouned by concrete, they become easier to "upload" (my own personal opinion based on the thin air that I am talking about ;)
39.00 bingo...digital music is a perfect example of the lifelessness problem of digitization....the simulation hypothesis of arbitrary precision is based on the premise that we can find some finite set of variables that fully capture the essence of the system and that these categories are disjoint...but this is not the case for complex or living systems...I,e the simulation hypothesis is not applicable to non mechanical systems...this is why digital music sounds crisp, clean, and lifeless...like a caricature of a live performance. It’s surprising to me how infrequently this is mentioned.
39:57 I took a super-ironic screen shot at that time-stamp. I'm imagining being Rushkoff at that moment. My hand reaches out at that moment and closes the interviewers lap-top and I say, "The point I am trying to make could be so much more effectively communicated if you would stop looking at your screen and look at my face like a human being. My god, man! Am I offending you with this "human" stuff? Sorry!!!"
In the space between the ticks of the seconds, I have had to relate the new digital anti-society with my classically trained, well read and socially developed youth. While broadcasters and local power holders sing the praises of tech and social progress, my family members have suffered and died from over reliance on those same advances. I am glad Douglas Rushkoff is recording this aspect of my experience for future generations. Every time I see the Progressive commercial with Ellen D., I wish someone would do a parody sequel showing the sacrifices made when the historical inventions referred to had their first field trials. How many test pilots died, both before and after the Wright brothers? Of course, they chose to take that chance. How many have to go off grid before we all realize that we deserve more choice? Even among changes we ARE informed of (if you read them before claiming you did), the impossible to follow, new "company policies" and "terms of service" are breaches of contract. Will my grandchildren get back any of the good that has been thrown out with the bad from the world of my analogue youth?
I'm not sure that's it is only cancer that grows exponentially. Other physiologic functions can shift to a these rapid states and include hormone secretion in times of stress, a wide variety of immunological factors (unrelated to cancer), and perhaps even aspects of cognition...
"How can these people go trippin in the jungle and still be fucking assholes" I really felt that quote because I know a lot of people that make me ask the same question. Maybe they aren't assholes...... but it's like they couldn't learn anything from the trip or at least they just decide to not use it at all.
This talk resonates with me a lot. Thank you for the food for thought. 40:40 "What are we doing"? Maybe we are PREPARING for departure into space... who knows. I wonder how our tribe is going to deal with all of this. There's a lot to unpack here for sure. However I think where do you derive the implication that devices such as Twitter were designed to keep people in fear? I know about the dopamine shots linked to social media, but that's the first time I hear about the fear thing. I'm just curious.
Very blunt and accurate assessment of our predicament. Maybe some of us work around it, but not all and surely not nearly enough. I see no road back to Eden.
If you go into an spiritual practice with the idea that the altered states are the thing rather than the gateway you can spend ten years meditating daily , or do ayahuasca or whatever and still be an asshole. It’s the whole having mode materialist only trap. The point isn’t to achieve altered states...although flow states are awesome....but that these states allow you to see the world in ways that are ordinarily invisible to you. It’s a being made aspiration not a having mode attainment.
Psychedelics means still speaking to yourself. Just not you as you know yourself. (The static and most easily tangible you) So yeah. Different conclusions. For technology, there are millions of decisions that aren't that harmful but aggregate together create a negative trend. Technology is more the number of decisions than the negativity, so I don't think tech composes the problem. It just fits into it. The ugly truth that fear is more influenceable than hope. Even if it's indirect such as the fear of missing out. It seems to direct in a more definite way. Hope is a less precise thought I feel. So by becoming powerful which means knowing how to influence, it's programmed into them to think in more fear terms. This in-betweenness cannot be exploited so there is no market to propel it forward. You could argue a reputation market does a bit, but it gets hijacked too easily and turns into PR when defensive. We cannot be humans to our internet our social standards any more. The absence of tech would descale the problem and take the heat out. I do wonder if tech and globalisation are too welded together. It's natural, but we're all too much at the mercy of things we can't control.. and that's more globalisation of a certain flavour caused by tech.
I used tech to to run a social experiment, It all come about while I was playing a game called Ellder Scrolls Online, after getting bored it dawned on me how everyone was perfect looking all the male char's and female so due to have a complex personality I decided to creat a char as ugly as possible and giving it the name Princess Beautiful then set off I would go stand where lots of people gather and try and stand next to groups of people but they would move away or ignor me if I said "hello" it wasn't long before people would run up to me and throw stuff and say offensive things, this was on the EU server I then done the same on the US server. same kind of treatment, so I thought ok I'll take a level higher and created a char called "Transgender Brenda" well the abuse was rife no one wanted anything to do with me, so I would challange them and allways the same thing would happen. there would always be one in the group who was the alpha personality of the group who kept control of the group to his way of thinking, it's alomst like the control they have over their group is cult like. I would keep it going for a while before I let on what I was doing, which was to see if even in a digital fantasy world where nothing is real your appearance and name will effect your experience. not so bad on the USA server they seemed more accepting of "Transgender Brenda" than they did of "Princess Beautiful" Make of it what you will although it was strange to see how your treated from the other side of the coin. Things ya do when ya bored well me anyway lol
When aspy tech guys rule the world, we are now surprised their main concern is how to make their staff still cook their dinner and fly their helicopters for them after the apocalypse.
There's tech4good and social media for good, but FYI, it's coming from OUTSIDE of SV. E.g., Europe, Canada, midwest, northeast, and Washington DC. Everyone I work with is outside of SV. SV intimidates me and it's anti-social. Big Tech acts like a cult, and everyone has some relative working at our 'rival' FB etc...
Digital does not understand anything, it is a contextually useful tool and as you make clear there is abundant risk of pathological misuse. The work of Robert Rosen is very relevant here...living systems are fundamentally qualitatively and organizationally different than mechanical systems...digital systems which can only emulate universal Turing machines not living systems like Rosen’s M,R systems ( metabolism and repair). anything you would consider meaningful is irrelevant and invisible to a digital system and there is no way around that. Your consciousness will not be uploaded, and an EM will never be anything but a lifeless cartoon no matter how many laundry list properties you add in.
I don't think tech is inherently harmful or beneficial. It's an amplifier. There are millions living better lives with healthy relationships with tech while maintaining healthy relationships with people and reality. People who are negatively affected by tech tend to have preexisting issues that they avoid or amplify with tech. Maybe universal access is irresponsible.
Rave on, John Donne, Rave on thy holy fool Down through the weeks of ages In the moss borne dark dank pools Rave on down through the industrial revolution Empiricism, atomic and nuclear age Rave on down through time and space down through the corridors Rave on words on printed page.
The first guest I wholey disagree with....The comment of being an adult and grown up doesn't sit right. Just the comparison of Trump to a toddler displays exactly what he is talking about..(people need to grow up)...I think this mentality has brought us to the situation we find our selves in...A self pity of the World is against me
I repeatedly hear the word "capitalism" and the speaker always assumes we know exactly what is meant. Please probe for definitions. Likewise for terms like "market forces".
@@choomickle623 nah. it's widely known and feared, the time when AI programs itself. they'll have full sentience, and whether or not they would want to kill us remains unknown
@@biocykle Why is the color or gender of the people having a conversation important? Seems dismissive, racist and sexist to me. I like to judge people based on the content of their character and I judge conversations based on the intellectual content. I was trying to do that while listening to this video but I was interrupted by the guests contrary ideology.
Silicon Valley seeing people as "a problem" to deal with, rather than working with human nature is a very important insight.
Hello... my nonprofit Social Media org (Worldie) will be working with American University in Washington DC soon in their NSF I-Corp program. DC is very into ethics, technology, safety, and social effects. Our team is totally midwest, northeast, Canada, and outside SV...
I live in SV... for almost a year now.. it's anti-social, they don't care about things (apathetic), don't care about public figures, and they are lost with humanity bc it's workaholic here. I'm moving in 4+ months...
Just letting you know, there's a tech4good and now (bc of us) there will be a social media for good too...
It's the same reason why Communists killed 100million people in the 20th century.
12:02 *"The only thing that grows exponentially in nature is cancer"*
Not sure where that's from, but it's very wrong.
You'll find exponential growth in bacteria, in electrical circuts, etc. There is usually a limitting factor that will cause the growth to slow down,
making the larger point behind the incorrect statement, still valid: *exponential growth can't last forever in a finite system.*
The petri dish will run out of food and space for hte bacteria, the capcitor will reach full charge, the cancer will run out of cells to spread to.
Ya there are a bunch of wrong statements in his talk, but sifting through there are some gems. His point stands about the exponential economic growth model being unsustainable however. And his comment about billionaires preparing for the societal crash is revealing. It’s as if they know their plan for world domination can backfire, and how to maintain control in that event is their concern. Leading me to believe in this case that these billionaires know that if a crash occurs it will be their fault.
As an aside he seems a bit paranoid, maybe too many mushrooms?
At a fundamental level, his critiques are spot on, he just goes in some really dumb directions. For instance, circular economies are utopian garbage.
7:00 "Marx showed us how industrialism doesn't respect the human worker" No, Marx showed us a system with the highest dead toll ever on earth.
@@janstunnenberg6316
the same way Jesus invented "the inquisition" ?
@@monkeytrousers6180 Jesus did not invent "the inquisition".
Interesting chat, thought he was right about not necessarily needing tech when humans are really the ultimate tech, and that we are only just beginning to fully understand ourselves and our capabilities.
For me personally, I would of liked to hear a thank you for him at the end, also offering him any last words of message to the audience.
Thank you for sharing this video.
I really enjoyed this video and DR's warmth and playfulness. I think his comments on "white educated men" approaches to solving the world's problems is valid, even though I myself often enjoy what these men have to say. I am getting a growing sense, however, of the sensemaking world as one articulated mostly by people with theories and clarity (which I like) but where the messier, more playful and murkier aspects get left out. These messier bits are what I am longing for now, within myself and with others. What I loved about this interview is that DR speaks to all this, the spaces in between, where the real stuff happens (I believe). I agree with him that this is where the answers to our big problems, if there are any, exist. Another thing that struck me was the difference in the way both of you expressed yourselves: I can see why you might need to take the more impartial journalist interviewer's perspective, David, but I wonder if this conversation could have been more powerful if you were able to show your own responses to what Douglas was saying more. While I guess we just need to experience these things for ourselves, it is inspiring to see people in these settings having real responses to each other.
@@MarpLondon Point 1 was his point exactly. Did you listen to him? Skin color / race / identity / whatever wasn't the issue he was pointing to at all. He was simply acknowledging something factual.
Why can’t we hear from at least a few women?
Nooooooo!!! You changed the intro music?? I know its small, but that reverse delay tune you had was so fitting for this channel's content. It had such an air of ethereal wonderment, pensive ruminating, and other 50 cent artsy words... Maybe it's just for this video, and maybe I'm being a little bitch.. But I formally request a reconsideration of intro tune selection! XD
Love you guys
I don't even remember it, but I'm going to an older video to hear it for myself.
This was a fascinating episode; I'd listen to it again. Rushkoff is a compelling, entertaining and thought-provoking teacher. In fact, I think if I ever need bad news delivered to me, I'd like Rushkoff to do it.
Can't wait! What a perfect fit for this channel.
I agree!
NICE shoutout for the Well Dougie! Thank you 🙏
This cat is bloody BRILLIANT!
Thanks Doug and David for a great interview
Fantastic episode, thank you so much for that! Brilliant formulations 🥰
Here comes the big guns. Rushkoff is one of the most powerful thinkers out there.
Just the first 10 minutes of this is worth all the wealth in the world.
I love Douglas rushkoff’s way of distilling what’s going on in the world today.
Living in the space between...absolutely.
Needless to say Douglas is a living legend on these topics and was in my digital media and society class syllabus along with Marshall McLuhan
I was actually very encouraged by his experience with the billionaires. The fact that they are terrified and looking for a way to survive provides an opening for introducing them to Game B, which is exactly what Douglas did. Understanding that treating people like their welfare matters because you dont want them to kill you when you cant control them with money can be scaled to say, treat as many people as you can manage as if they matter now and you can stay above ground and avoid the miserable life of living in a bunker. The rich are not the demonic enemy, they are just like each of us trying to move towards happiness and away from pain. If we can show them how life can be better for them if they play Game B with us they may decide that it is well worth their efforts and resources to find a way to get into the game.
His comment about the feel of it being just middle aged white men working in this space was unsettling but true. But having given it some thought it makes sense to me that the people who have gone closer to the maximum heights of what this uber rational materialistic world can deliver be the first to discover the hollowness and danger in it. Those who have felt oppression for many centuries, hunger for the taste of power and success in this materialistic patriarchal world and may not be ready for a shift until they have tasted some of that same hollowness. So keep doing what you are doing, others will join and change the flavour of the music in your collective consciousness jam when we are ready. Be patient and continue to nurture this sacred space.
@@MarpLondon Hi M M, thanks for your reply. I was not commenting on how Silicon Valley or Rebel Wisdom was put together or even the intent or utility of their creation but It may clarify things if I do. It feels to me that Rebel Wisdom has created a space where well meaning, thoughtful people can gather to help us figure out a way to get out of the polarized mess we find ourselves in. I want to do everything I can to participate in a way that nurtures that good intent and thoughtfulness. I would also add that it does not matter who created and now dominates this space because we will need everyone to behave in a similar way to get out of this mess. It feels to me that we will need people from every back ground and social strata to add their voices in the same well intentioned and thoughtful manner but many are not ready for it since they are dealing with their own personal trauma or maybe just trying to survive or put food on the table. I like much of your description of the evolution of Silicon Valley though. Do you see Rebel Wisdom and similar spaces evolving in the same way.
@@MarpLondon I read your comments and feel that you have misunderstood the essence of my comments so I will try to clarify. I applaud the efforts of everyone who created works to maintain the Rebel Wisdom space. It feels to me that, for the most part, the Rebel Wisdom space has managed to move us past much of that lazy, defamatory chatter that now seems to dominate Social Media. It is because of this that I think it is okay to address Douglas's comment about a bunch of white guys discussing this. Daniel Schmactenberger and Jordan Hall made similar comments in their discussion with Jamie Wheal. They were simply stating a fact. I see more women and people of color being attracted to the channel all the time and I do all I can to trumpet its utility as well. I think we can continue to build this community naturally into something that can resonate with greater and greater magnitude with the rest of world and that would be a good thing because we will need everyone if we are to survive. It may be that we will need to seduce them with the authentic nurturing atmosphere we create in this space. But it cannot be based on bullshit, ignorance or political correctness. As far as being an insult to women or people of color, I do not see being Ultra Rational as a virtue even though I think anyone can be ultra rational. It feels to me like narrow rationalism has become a cult that dominates the social consciousness and has corrupted and stunted the common sense growth that began with the enlightenment
I agree that our job as 21st century humans to focus and excel on the things that are the hardest to automate. The least automizable skill I found had to do with meditation, mindfulness, self-inquiry and looking for the nature of my identity.
And creativity :)
@@trissvelvel8499 Nah it's fully automatable. I give it 15 years. Self-inquiry is purely subjective and is not a process that brings results.
So much to unpack in this video. This is an incredible commentary on so many things that are going on. These men succeeded by gaming a system with a set of rules, so it stands to reason that they would be looking to continue the grift by continuing to game the rules past the apocalypse. Not one of them feels any sense of obligation to anyone but himself, which shouldn't be surprising I guess!
Thanks Douglas for the word less wonder of ‘ the space between the ticks’
These interviews so skilful
The erosion of the biosphere is key in all of this. Especially the trees. Nature is transmitting "background noise" all the time. As we wipe out the "scenery" or get humans away and surrouned by concrete, they become easier to "upload" (my own personal opinion based on the thin air that I am talking about ;)
39.00 bingo...digital music is a perfect example of the lifelessness problem of digitization....the simulation hypothesis of arbitrary precision is based on the premise that we can find some finite set of variables that fully capture the essence of the system and that these categories are disjoint...but this is not the case for complex or living systems...I,e the simulation hypothesis is not applicable to non mechanical systems...this is why digital music sounds crisp, clean, and lifeless...like a caricature of a live performance. It’s surprising to me how infrequently this is mentioned.
39:57 I took a super-ironic screen shot at that time-stamp. I'm imagining being Rushkoff at that moment. My hand reaches out at that moment and closes the interviewers lap-top and I say, "The point I am trying to make could be so much more effectively communicated if you would stop looking at your screen and look at my face like a human being. My god, man! Am I offending you with this "human" stuff? Sorry!!!"
another brillient interview from rebel wisdom. douglas seemed like a nice guy really enjoyed watching this.
Thanks for this. Really like your insightful conversation with a great thinker.
underrated person, underrated interview.
Very good! My condensation of our being today. Are we high educated or highly distracted?
In the space between the ticks of the seconds, I have had to relate the new digital anti-society with my classically trained, well read and socially developed youth. While broadcasters and local power holders sing the praises of tech and social progress, my family members have suffered and died from over reliance on those same advances. I am glad Douglas Rushkoff is recording this aspect of my experience for future generations.
Every time I see the Progressive commercial with Ellen D., I wish someone would do a parody sequel showing the sacrifices made when the historical inventions referred to had their first field trials. How many test pilots died, both before and after the Wright brothers? Of course, they chose to take that chance. How many have to go off grid before we all realize that we deserve more choice? Even among changes we ARE informed of (if you read them before claiming you did), the impossible to follow, new "company policies" and "terms of service" are breaches of contract. Will my grandchildren get back any of the good that has been thrown out with the bad from the world of my analogue youth?
Great content.
Brilliant discussion. Thanks
I watch your Channel from the beginning the biggest problem is the time which is not enough so I don't get all the information thank you very much
I'm not sure that's it is only cancer that grows exponentially. Other physiologic functions can shift to a these rapid states and include hormone secretion in times of stress, a wide variety of immunological factors (unrelated to cancer), and perhaps even aspects of cognition...
The white rabbit brought me here 🐇❤️✌️
So glad you exist
"How can these people go trippin in the jungle and still be fucking assholes"
I really felt that quote because I know a lot of people that make me ask the same question. Maybe they aren't assholes...... but it's like they couldn't learn anything from the trip or at least they just decide to not use it at all.
Douglas is an all round fantastic guy, he and Tristan Harris are very similar in many respects 👌
Great as always.
Thanks for ending before Johnny V began!
more great work . . . . THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!
Aside from the misreading of the Trump situation I enjoyed that. Going to check out whatever else he's done now.
Bravo!!
Have you had Jaron Lanier on the podcast? ("You are not a Gadget" "Who owns the Future")
This talk resonates with me a lot. Thank you for the food for thought.
40:40 "What are we doing"? Maybe we are PREPARING for departure into space... who knows.
I wonder how our tribe is going to deal with all of this. There's a lot to unpack here for sure.
However I think where do you derive the implication that devices such as Twitter were designed to keep people in fear? I know about the dopamine shots linked to social media, but that's the first time I hear about the fear thing. I'm just curious.
Very blunt and accurate assessment of our predicament. Maybe some of us work around it, but not all and surely not nearly enough. I see no road back to Eden.
Ultra-intuitive human nervous systems are the highest “tech”
If you go into an spiritual practice with the idea that the altered states are the thing rather than the gateway you can spend ten years meditating daily , or do ayahuasca or whatever and still be an asshole. It’s the whole having mode materialist only trap. The point isn’t to achieve altered states...although flow states are awesome....but that these states allow you to see the world in ways that are ordinarily invisible to you. It’s a being made aspiration not a having mode attainment.
Psychedelics means still speaking to yourself. Just not you as you know yourself. (The static and most easily tangible you) So yeah. Different conclusions.
For technology, there are millions of decisions that aren't that harmful but aggregate together create a negative trend. Technology is more the number of decisions than the negativity, so I don't think tech composes the problem. It just fits into it.
The ugly truth that fear is more influenceable than hope. Even if it's indirect such as the fear of missing out. It seems to direct in a more definite way. Hope is a less precise thought I feel. So by becoming powerful which means knowing how to influence, it's programmed into them to think in more fear terms. This in-betweenness cannot be exploited so there is no market to propel it forward. You could argue a reputation market does a bit, but it gets hijacked too easily and turns into PR when defensive. We cannot be humans to our internet our social standards any more. The absence of tech would descale the problem and take the heat out. I do wonder if tech and globalisation are too welded together. It's natural, but we're all too much at the mercy of things we can't control.. and that's more globalisation of a certain flavour caused by tech.
I used tech to to run a social experiment, It all come about while I was playing a game called Ellder Scrolls Online, after getting bored it dawned on me how everyone was perfect looking all the male char's and female
so due to have a complex personality I decided to creat a char as ugly as possible and giving it the name Princess Beautiful then set off
I would go stand where lots of people gather and try and stand next to groups of people but they would move away or ignor me if I said "hello"
it wasn't long before people would run up to me and throw stuff and say offensive things, this was on the EU server I then done the same on the US server.
same kind of treatment, so I thought ok I'll take a level higher and created a char called
"Transgender Brenda"
well the abuse was rife no one wanted anything to do with me, so I would challange them and allways the same thing would happen.
there would always be one in the group who was the alpha personality of the group who kept control of the group to his way of thinking, it's alomst like the control they have over their group is cult like.
I would keep it going for a while before I let on what I was doing, which was to see if even in a digital fantasy world where nothing is real your appearance and name will effect your experience.
not so bad on the USA server they seemed more accepting of "Transgender Brenda" than they did of "Princess Beautiful"
Make of it what you will although it was strange to see how your treated from the other side of the coin.
Things ya do when ya bored well me anyway lol
When aspy tech guys rule the world, we are now surprised their main concern is how to make their staff still cook their dinner and fly their helicopters for them after the apocalypse.
There's tech4good and social media for good, but FYI, it's coming from OUTSIDE of SV. E.g., Europe, Canada, midwest, northeast, and Washington DC. Everyone I work with is outside of SV. SV intimidates me and it's anti-social. Big Tech acts like a cult, and everyone has some relative working at our 'rival' FB etc...
The concept of the paperclip maximizer comes from Nick Bostrom (wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer)
Digital does not understand anything, it is a contextually useful tool and as you make clear there is abundant risk of pathological misuse. The work of Robert Rosen is very relevant here...living systems are fundamentally qualitatively and organizationally different than mechanical systems...digital systems which can only emulate universal Turing machines not living systems like Rosen’s M,R systems ( metabolism and repair). anything you would consider meaningful is irrelevant and invisible to a digital system and there is no way around that. Your consciousness will not be uploaded, and an EM will never be anything but a lifeless cartoon no matter how many laundry list properties you add in.
I don't think tech is inherently harmful or beneficial. It's an amplifier. There are millions living better lives with healthy relationships with tech while maintaining healthy relationships with people and reality. People who are negatively affected by tech tend to have preexisting issues that they avoid or amplify with tech. Maybe universal access is irresponsible.
They all eem to be look ungodly forward for what is behind
I hear a lot of Tim Freke in this.
Rave on, John Donne, Rave on thy holy fool
Down through the weeks of ages
In the moss borne dark dank pools
Rave on down through the industrial revolution
Empiricism, atomic and nuclear age
Rave on down through time and space down through the corridors
Rave on words on printed page.
The first guest I wholey disagree with....The comment of being an adult and grown up doesn't sit right. Just the comparison of Trump to a toddler displays exactly what he is talking about..(people need to grow up)...I think this mentality has brought us to the situation we find our selves in...A self pity of the World is against me
He does behave like a boy in a playground tho 😉
@@dmttruth9060 Don't we all 👍
@@bitcoinmining6361 No we don't
@@c3bhm Pointing out that Trump is acting like a brat is not virtue signaling. He actually, factually is.
Dear Billionaires: How about you make yourself a part of the world?
I repeatedly hear the word "capitalism" and the speaker always assumes we know exactly what is meant. Please probe for definitions. Likewise for terms like "market forces".
Read / listen to his book. It's a good one.
He put his finger on accelerationism …a cancer
HT - Tech 0 - Human 1
13:30 Did not take long to get around to white self loathing guilt.
You don't understand Trump at all.
Are you a 'Wozniackian' or a 'Jobsnilian'? You can't be both.
tech.....cannot destroy human...
we(human) created technology
the only one can destroy human is......HUMAN
no one else
it's not that simple
@@spiralviper8158 oh it is
@@choomickle623 nah. it's widely known and feared, the time when AI programs itself. they'll have full sentience, and whether or not they would want to kill us remains unknown
When the pair fell and Jews mother wet the grand narrative they maybe didn't consider CG jung being correct
Too many white guy dudes???? I’m out.
Maybe you should focus on the content of people's charcters and not their skin colour. What an insufferably racist thing to say.
Andrew Devine the guy being interviewed says this about himself and the interview at 13:30
Andrew Devine so, that is what the guy said about himself and the interviewer, at 13:30. So I guess he is racist?
@@brianbob7514 Wait, what is the problem with stating that again?
@@biocykle Why is the color or gender of the people having a conversation important? Seems dismissive, racist and sexist to me. I like to judge people based on the content of their character and I judge conversations based on the intellectual content. I was trying to do that while listening to this video but I was interrupted by the guests contrary ideology.
Sounds like an argument for Church to me...and that's not just
(EN-TER-TAINMENT)!!!
Actually Douglas it’s a perfect example of your figure/ground reversal...
Haha Question Why the guy had to pay for The workers Daughters Bah Mitzva:)?!
Why it wasn’t easily paid for by a common man
Digital and AI is the next big step in capitalism. An enormous moneymachine.
100% 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻