I'm really glad you're bringing attention to this!!!! I'm not in the EU, so I can't sign the petition, but I'm encouraging all my Euro friends to do so! It benefits video games worldwide!
I, for example, am European and yet am not a EU citizen. Though I'm not sure how it works for petitions. Will have to check. Edit: I checked: as a citizen of Switzerland I can't support this petition. Switzerland is not on the list of accepted countries.
@@NeroCM One if the few countries where one might actually find something specific on a search engine, without all the pushed propaganda sites and censorship of certain sites....
There was game called 'EVE Valkyrie', it was VR first person space shooter that was kinda groundbreaking for it's time. Even though it was mostly online PVP, there was a short solo campaign. CCP shut down the servers 2 years ago and the game is pretty much bricked for good. I would've loved to see them make an offline patch.
Duuude, i remember the hype when this game was about to release with a bunch of others. Every youtube video talked about it. And now nobody ever mentions it, it doesn't even make it to any list of space games. I completely forgot it even existed. I wonder what happened.
It's unfair on the developers as well, people spend hundreds or even thousands of hours designing and building these games, only for them to be thrown in the bin. They are throwing away history, could you imagine trashing a painting because not enough people were looking at it?
EVERY lilve service game before shutting down should release last patch that unlocks EVERY premium cash shop item and offline mode. And in perfect world release SDK to self host servers or make private servers.
I am painfully familiar with that problem, i played BattleForge and i really liked it... well, the levels where you weren´t forced to multiplay at least. Today, the game servers are down, luckily there are fan servers, so it can still be played... mostly. Yet many games don´t even get that.
So Gamestop had an old online store they shut down so I lost all the games I had bought from that store. Also on Steam I bought Dark Spore, the Crew and had purchased items in Marvel Heroes Omega from Zillion games all shut down and lost everything I had purchased. That's why I don't buy anything in live service games anymore.
told my parents and relatives, and friends to sign it afte ri signed it myself and what do you know the website is broken now, it refuses to load the page properly
Here a problem with this. Most game studios are in the US and Japan so these companies could just simply say “European laws do not apply to us. We will simply stop supporting your country completely.” Sure it’s extremely bad for business but I can only see this only applying to Video Game companies in Europe
Every Country apart from the United Kingdom or its component countries, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland. Id sign up on this its a brilliant Idea This issue has been around since the internet became a business. Any game with "In Game Purchases" is going to get slapped in the ass with the official boot of "Not on my server farm anymore we have a new better game and we need the servers for our need and we wont leave the game active because we dont want anyone making cash other than us" There is a platform called KALI that enables multiplatform gaming and ser4ver side functionality to a lot of old legacy stuff and stuff from early 2000.
Fantastic video Yamiks, multiple issues. I'm a early backer of Elite Dangerous, and there was kickback at the start when they went back on a promise and made it so you needed to be online to play, aka not offline. Can see multiple issues with MMO's, or even normal multi player. Otherwise be stuck playing 90's game from CD when the flag goes up (maybe soon). 😁
So? The Diablo2 had a fan hosting server. Until Blizzard took them to court and won in court and closed it down. By saying it broke their DRM since you connected and it didn't check your DRM. But it didn't check because Blizzard refused to let them decode and check the DRM and without permission, that's copyright infringement. So all those MMOs et al, they get a download of a server that your game will connect to. Simples.
I'll support this. However, without running a server farm somewhere, it won't work for many games. So ultimately, code that can be run by the players would need to be provided. E.g. Elite could run a server instance locally and run in solo, or players could pay for a server/farm and run also multi-player.
So? It isn't like they will give you your money back. You got to play the game? Well they got to invest your money, making money off your money. Even trade. Take back their game, you take back your money. And they will have copyright to it far FAR longer. The option would be requring them to open source everything, for example, because despite the language being "open source", Rowling still makes pots of cash selling Harry Potter books, so open source doesn't stop capitalism.
Some exemple The crew had digital and physical version. But ubisoft closed their id server briking the game for everyone. And so game don’t live 1 years. Like a bunch of game enix decided to close years ago
i think we need a law worldwide that forces company's to deliver an offline mode with all features except for co op & mp. Or refund at least 69% of every customer purchase
Independent organizations host Inara, EDDN, there used to be EDDB... There's no way nobody would offer to rehost the Elite servers. Sure a server running isn't free, the data migration would be complex, there should be backups through other 3rd parties, authentication could be an issue... i think the technical side is gonna be pretty hard to figure out.
Elite does not need new servers, just offline mode that starts from where online started 10 years ago, with optional DLC's. FD could really cash with it on GOG.
@@perttiroska9970 Half of the remaining players are here for AX combat and PVP. None of which would be available in solo. In fact, no role can be done in solo, besides perhaps exploration, as even trading relies on a background simulation that's made server-side
Helldivers 2 is far from being saved. Devs started banning players who made a psn, with the help of vpn, because there's still 180 countries unable to play it.... AFTER Playstation stated they weren't forcing people to use PSN and never reactivated the 180 countries that were blacklisted to play.
its not arrow head banning its sony its in theyre term of service that if sony figure out that if u use a vpn to make psn account they have the right to terminate or banned your account
At least Elite wouldn't need new servers, just offline mode that starts from where online started 10 years ago, with optional DLC's for changes made. FD could really cash with it on GOG.
Australian petition is closed (> 10k signatures), but the Canadian petition is open until September 5! Go to stop killing games and you can find it in the Canada section
You know the cursed monkey-paw result of this petition, right? It's "free" games with monthly subscriptions, that way they can turn off the servers at any time and don't have to do anything because you never paid a cent for the game, only the subscription. So now instead of paying $70 for a game that stops working in 5 years, you'll pay $9/mo for a game that stops working in 5 years. I guess on the plus side, if you get bored of it in less than 6 months, you save money.
This entire Initiative is just... Its the drunk guy that complains his favorite PUB has closed and now demands that the PUB is made so it can run forever, even without a Bartender. Or that he can hire a Bartender himself that now works there instead.
Not alot to do with this video, but we still need you talking crap about elite dangerous, whats good with the Yin without the Yang. I was trying to guess what you would be saying about that game now. Missing you brother over here!
I always hated this approach of artificially limiting players and deleting content because all the big companies care is: more money!!! This movement has my full support and I hope it will extend to other media as well, so we make sure every creation (be it good or bad) is protected by law!
god i hope this wil not go thru but rather be tweaked so that it works no one cares about the crew rlly, i still hope i can actually own my games in the future.
Undr initiative progress it says “Given status cannot be mapped to currently supported timeline” and under Sources of funding it says “no content available”. Also there isnt a button to sign anything. The page just doesn’t look like how it is explained on stopkillinggames. Maybe the site is overwhelmed? I’ll try again later..
@@goofy851I think they are having network issues (hopefully because of this), it just loaded for me. Gonna try to sign again now because youtube’s browser sucks😅
gamers need to be extremely careful, they dont realize the extreme slippery slope you teeter on bringing any type of regulation or law or even basic consumer protection into gaming, it may only be a petition now, but if the wrong people champion it and it does end up making some laws dont be surprised when you end up way worse off then you are now
I listened to a software developer dismantle this with facts. Before signing, read up on both sides of the argument. This initiative is not well thought out.
If you mean Pirate Software, he's being disingenuous. This is just to bring it up to the government, NOT the final law that will be passed. Once enough valid signatures are given, discussion is had and the actual points are refined. Its vague for a reason because Ross isnt a game dev and doesnt know enough about the industry. Thors perspective as a dev would have been priceless information to take in and consider, but he refuses to even speak with Ross. edit: The initiative can't even get any more detail anyway because there's a hard word limit. The initiative being vague is the correct procedure.
@elfireii328 Maybe Scott should ask more devs before posting the initiative. I have heard other devs than PirateSoftware saying the initiative needs a more specific problem. I am unsure if Scott talked with any developers. The FAQ is very hand wavey "np that's easy to do".
@@pallenda Have those devs tried to reach out? Who are they? What exactly did they say? Also read the second paragraph of my comment. The purpose of this is to get the discussion going and to get the government to take it seriously. Its not supposed to be the "final" version. So who ever those other devs who had something to say, should say it. Reach out, make a video, and contribute their thoughts on how to improve the initiative.
@elfireii328 Yes, I did read the 2nd part, I still think the problem should be better defined before putting out the initiative for signing. ThePrimeagen made a video. I don't know who reached out to who or at what time. I think it should be the ones making the initiative that should do the "study" and information gathering. Developers might not even have heard about it being worked on before the initiative came out.
@@pallenda Well thats good. I'll check out Primeagen's video. Thanks for letting me know. Im pretty sure the initiative can still be revised before it gets sent to the government. So what better way than to actually start so devs and more knowledgeable people can catch wind of it. I've typed this in all of my replies, but this isnt even close to being the final version of proposed law. Its simply to get people to actually talk about it and spread it in hopes to eventually implement something like it for the sake of increasing consumer power and choice in gaming.
Alternatively you don't buy ANY online only games. Which loses the game publisher your money, but I figure if they don't want to actually SELL me their thing, then I'll not buy it. It is why I didn't get, and still haven't got, Diablo3, and for which talking of not getting got me a LOT of insistence I was wrong and I would miss a great game and I was a luddite, etc. Seems like that "vote with your wallet" was just them telling you to shut it, because as soon as you do just that, they'll complain at you. Not getting Doom Eternal, ever, either, because it has Deneuvo DRM.
@@TheYamiks No, reality shows I didn't buy either of those things. I literally did not buy them. No sale. What you seem to be missing is that if they hadn't done this "oh, online only so we can kill games by removing our servers allowing the game!" then they could have, dun dun dunnnn, MADE MORE MONEY.
Sad reality is : this is not reality and you can hope that BOBBY-the-casual-gamer will care enough is .....cute. no we need RULES to be set, to prevent shit like killing games , just cuz a fucking server is shut down!
@@SSS333-AAA he is pointing with one finger, not having a flat hand with all fingers stretched, you are desperately trying to see a Nazi salute, and it says more about you than it does about yamiks. If this is a nazi pose then simply pointing people to a direction is also offensive, thats honestly retarded Actually i could be looking at it wrong the thumbnail is chaotic but fist up with no finger is still opposite and fine compared to the third reich salute Unless we are talking about Star Wars first order But those movies are so bad they arent considered "canon" and are just a disney fanfiction
TLDR; Game companies have to stop pulling the plug on their online only / service games. When service cannot continue for whatever reason, said companies have to be forced to change their game so you don't need to require the online component to function.
@@martytube821 those are things out of control for any company. we're talking here about every game company that just pulls the plug cause they "want" to "end the terms of agreement" I have plenty of games to prove that just lying on the shelves cause their online component "has been taken out" while these games would have no issue running right now on my PC in a single player mode. Instead, they are picking up dust.
I'm pretty sure most games warn you when you click through the consent pop ups to give up your rights in order to play in the first place. But this initiative seems a bit to broad as many online games are trash and lose money, there needs to be a threshold on maybe units sold or something cause this could shut down good or bad games before they even release or just more trash free to play games to avoid this. I agree something needs to be done but its not like this is something with a physical value as its digital data. IMO the gaming market is over saturated so more games fail.
EULA holds no ground! When a game is sold for XX$ it's automatically sold under perpetual licence. for more info check that "Games as a service is Fraud" video for more info!
@@TheYamiks And that EULA lacking any ground is a proven fact in Germany, and why they never litigate it elsewhere: they don't want everyone knowing that the EULA is toothless, so they don't use teeth.
you... you do realize that this is NOT what the petition and movement is about!? seriously it's not hard to understand : go re-re-re-re-re-re-read what StopKillingGames is about!
my channel that i had since 2008 got removed from youtube for posting links to the petition and to ross's channel, literally without warning lost videos of my grandma while she was still alive forever if anyone knows any youtube connections that could help i would appreciate it massively my appeal was denied but there is no way if an actual human saw my case that my channel would've been deleted
i like the idea im just not sure how you get around not having online servers for some of these games, look at elite, so yea in theory you could push a update that removes the requirement for fdev authentication and you could play solo.... but thats it, there is no game servers either, so unless fdev releases the server side of the software that end users could host themselves, you will be forever stuck in solo, and even if they did release the server, the game wouldn't work the same, you would have divergence in the simulation across different privately hosted servers, kinda what has happened with the splitting of horizons and oddy, so i admire the idea, i just dont see how even if legislation gets put in place, short of forcing fdev to continue hosting the servers, you still wont have the games full functionality, and i dont agree with forcing a company to continue providing a service. i dont have a easy answer here, i think the best we can expect with these games is a final update that allows solo playable offline, but thats all you will ever have, and for games like helldivers, without multiplayer servers, the game basically is dead, who plays hd2 alone?
@@markhackett2302 it wont be the same, even in solo the BGS and powerplay activities are synced. as i said its admirable and solo play would be better than nothing but it still isnt playable like it use to be in that case
This is especially bad when playing older switch games on newer switch models. The system now locks you out of the game unless you download the latest updates. On older switch models you could just start the game without the update. And most of the updates aren't even major fixes. It is infuriating.
All this is fair, but issue is, at some point somebody has to pay for it... Servers aren't free, people sign, that's fine, but will they accept to support the scheme once they're asked for money?
@@TheYamiks Mmmm, sorry but IMO it is? The texte says: "prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher", which means giving the source codes, rights, and various stuff so that the player community can still operate the game. But this obviously concerns only games that need a server can't operate without a server (you can't disable a CD game), so this requires to keep tjjhese servers afloat, i.e. money. Who's gonna pay? How would this work? I totally agree with the principle, but I don't get how this would work. For exemple, Frontier once said they would give the players control if they decide to ever stop Elite, but how would this work? Would we CMDRs pay a fee? To whom? Will people pay? Trust?
...what logic are you using? we are not asking for source-code! It can be OFFLINE mode, it can be dedicated server software release, instructions to make it playable post support stop..and yes it could be source code too, but the level of solopsistic thinking that goes on around a simple wish: "TO NOT KILL GAMES" that it amazes me! When the publisher stops selling and supporting the game ..all we want is for the game to continue working!!!! Seriously : are you advocating/excusing for games...say like Elite Dangerous to be killed?!
you also wrong about licencing, having a license key does not give you the right to do whatever you want with it, it gives you the right to do with it what you will within the confines of the license agreement. for example, you cant copy it, you cant re-sell it in a lot of cases, you cant alter the software in most cases, you cant dissect the software and publish your findings. so you certainly cannot do whatever you want, and this is true for most proprietary software regardless of the media through which it is obtained.
No, it does. If it is after the sale, you can ignore it, it was not a requirement of the license. If it isn't protected under copyright (and installation is NOT protected by copyright, not only are you not installing, their installer is, but since it is a required use of the work, it can't be copyright controlled). You can do everything you can with a book. Sell it, make a copy for backup, a "Turning Copy" for your significant other, etc.
The thing is, licenses for things like software is extremely anti consumer and should be changed. It falls in line with the EU's right to repair intiative. Adobe has been pushing this line for a long time, and only recently got into trouble with adding "unlimited access to user data stored on the cloud" in their terms and conditions.
@@elfireii328 no, most licenses dont have any contingencies for modifying it for personal use, there may be some in writing, but they arent enforceable, my point is about say you published the decompiled source code to windows XP, which you can find, but distributing it is illigal. same goes for most source code, i dont think it is realistic to police so to speak individual tinkerers and modders to keep a sw working, the issue is when you start distributing proprietary sourcecode without the ip holders consent.
@@elfireii328 the other thing to consider is the whole right to repair thing kinda falls apart with most modern games because you arent buying a software, you are buying access to a service, you do not have right to repair a service. i think the end solution is to simply require games like elite to become eminent domain/opensource once the ip holder decides to stop supporting the service. this way the community can do what it likes and you arent forcing a company to continue supporting a dead service, on the fflip side, games that are more service than product should state so clearly at time of purchase.
Honestly, this shouldn't be a law, because there are games where it would be technically impossible, because they rely on the servers so much that they would have to be rewritten from scratch.
Lovely sentiment but stupid proposition for anything beyond single player only games. What is the punishment for not doing this? You gona fine the bankrupt/hyper rich company? Or try and win a court battle against a publisher picking up the IP after a studio is consumed/implodes? The outcome will either change nothing or create IP destruction.
I could see Epic store being shut down, not sure what will happen but will be interesting. Steam however makes so much money that it's kinda impossible at least in my lifetime 50-60 years. Generally in the EU games are considered goods, meaning there would be issues if customers don't have access to their games anymore. I assume Epic would perhaps have to send drm free installer to each customer for their games at that point it would be on the customer to keep them safe.
The unfortunate sad truth about this is that this would only force game companies to abide by the new laws set by the EU. They would still have complete free reign over the US and other countries that aren't part of the EU.
sure. but since games MOSTLY live in GLOBAL economy : it would be far easier for these companies to make games playable once support ends, than prevent a select region from playing said game (even if PSN bullshit has me NOT playing ghost of tsushima or helldivers)
@@TheYamiks These companies would go one of two routes (depending on the company). They would either abide by the rules and make the changes globally like you said or they would refuse to allow players from the EU regions from playing the games at all like Sony's already doing, pretty much more companies would follow Sony's shadow and do the same thing.
The "force" part is what worries me, how do you force someone to work for free if the game loses money and the company is closed. There's so many games that fail now a days from market over saturation. Just remember governments love broad authority citizens give them and good luck reigning it back in.
@@martytube821 So they don't have copyrights? After all, you just said they can't. And we are "forced" to pay in perpetuity for a game that isn't. We can't loan them our cash for loaning their game. How is that fair?
This approach is pointless. If the idea is to preserve the usability of the program that is the game, refunds and after the fact initiatives are insufficient. Only the industry can do this by creating an interest group that certifies an offline mode, and the customer base demanding games have these certifications. It doesn't have to be available up front, it doesn't have to be good, but forcing the engineering to support this mode from the game's inception is necessary if you are serious about preventing bricking. But we both know consumers won't force adoption of such a mark by withholding their dollars, so the only hope is to get it trending with engine developers to make it easy and standard.
I'm really glad you're bringing attention to this!!!! I'm not in the EU, so I can't sign the petition, but I'm encouraging all my Euro friends to do so! It benefits video games worldwide!
Not all Europeans are EU citizens.... 👀
I miss Europe
EU is cooked
I, for example, am European and yet am not a EU citizen. Though I'm not sure how it works for petitions. Will have to check.
Edit: I checked: as a citizen of Switzerland I can't support this petition. Switzerland is not on the list of accepted countries.
@@NeroCMJust yell over the border a french/german/Italian might hear you talk about it and sign it
@@NeroCM
One if the few countries where one might actually find something specific on a search engine, without all the pushed propaganda sites and censorship of certain sites....
Signed! Appreciate your making some noise about it. 5% signatures gathered in 0.1% of the allotted time, so maybe the petition will go through huzzah!
I've already signed, it was really easy.
Come on everyone, we finally have a chance to stick it to the man!
I am doing my part!
StopKillingGames!
I think I've signed at least 3 different petitions related to this topic. But keep sharing and showing your support everyone.
Those petitions don’t do anything.
@@thecursingexplorer138 yup. But voicing your opinion loudly en mass seems to work
There was game called 'EVE Valkyrie', it was VR first person space shooter that was kinda groundbreaking for it's time. Even though it was mostly online PVP, there was a short solo campaign.
CCP shut down the servers 2 years ago and the game is pretty much bricked for good. I would've loved to see them make an offline patch.
Duuude, i remember the hype when this game was about to release with a bunch of others. Every youtube video talked about it.
And now nobody ever mentions it, it doesn't even make it to any list of space games. I completely forgot it even existed.
I wonder what happened.
It's unfair on the developers as well, people spend hundreds or even thousands of hours designing and building these games, only for them to be thrown in the bin. They are throwing away history, could you imagine trashing a painting because not enough people were looking at it?
Sometimes I wish I were an European... As a Southeast Asian, I hope EU gamers could win this one.
Oh my. Your game market is wild and full of bad practices. I feel ya!
Latvian seems like a very efficient language, did the whole thing in 30 seconds.
13:43 Ubisoft and Microsft, EA (Electronic Ass) are planning to do the same!
Ubisoft has already done it with *The Crew 1!*
Very glad to see you promot the initiative. Thank for your support
Signed .. make this a helldiver mission? Nearly 50k signatures so far. But need the million.
EVERY lilve service game before shutting down should release last patch that unlocks EVERY premium cash shop item and offline mode. And in perfect world release SDK to self host servers or make private servers.
EVERYONE! make sure to share to everyone you know!
It`s funny how we now need to force on publishers what was a common part of gaming culture just a decade ago - dedicated self-hosted servers.
I am painfully familiar with that problem, i played BattleForge and i really liked it... well, the levels where you weren´t forced to multiplay at least.
Today, the game servers are down, luckily there are fan servers, so it can still be played... mostly.
Yet many games don´t even get that.
Oh man, I'm still sad about The Crew 😢
So Gamestop had an old online store they shut down so I lost all the games I had bought from that store. Also on Steam I bought Dark Spore, the Crew and had purchased items in Marvel Heroes Omega from Zillion games all shut down and lost everything I had purchased. That's why I don't buy anything in live service games anymore.
told my parents and relatives, and friends to sign it
afte ri signed it myself
and what do you know the website is broken now, it refuses to load the page properly
Here a problem with this. Most game studios are in the US and Japan so these companies could just simply say “European laws do not apply to us. We will simply stop supporting your country completely.” Sure it’s extremely bad for business but I can only see this only applying to Video Game companies in Europe
Hopefully you guys are successful in getting the pressure needed to preserve this art form and our access rights.
Every Country apart from the United Kingdom or its component countries, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland. Id sign up on this its a brilliant Idea
This issue has been around since the internet became a business. Any game with "In Game Purchases" is going to get slapped in the ass with the official boot of "Not on my server farm anymore we have a new better game and we need the servers for our need and we wont leave the game active because we dont want anyone making cash other than us" There is a platform called KALI that enables multiplatform gaming and ser4ver side functionality to a lot of old legacy stuff and stuff from early 2000.
Fantastic video Yamiks, multiple issues. I'm a early backer of Elite Dangerous, and there was kickback at the start when they went back on a promise and made it so you needed to be online to play, aka not offline. Can see multiple issues with MMO's, or even normal multi player. Otherwise be stuck playing 90's game from CD when the flag goes up (maybe soon). 😁
So? The Diablo2 had a fan hosting server. Until Blizzard took them to court and won in court and closed it down. By saying it broke their DRM since you connected and it didn't check your DRM. But it didn't check because Blizzard refused to let them decode and check the DRM and without permission, that's copyright infringement. So all those MMOs et al, they get a download of a server that your game will connect to. Simples.
I love that ytou made a video about this. Please make it in Latvian as well :))
I'll support this. However, without running a server farm somewhere, it won't work for many games. So ultimately, code that can be run by the players would need to be provided. E.g. Elite could run a server instance locally and run in solo, or players could pay for a server/farm and run also multi-player.
So? It isn't like they will give you your money back. You got to play the game? Well they got to invest your money, making money off your money. Even trade. Take back their game, you take back your money. And they will have copyright to it far FAR longer. The option would be requring them to open source everything, for example, because despite the language being "open source", Rowling still makes pots of cash selling Harry Potter books, so open source doesn't stop capitalism.
Some exemple The crew had digital and physical version. But ubisoft closed their id server briking the game for everyone.
And so game don’t live 1 years. Like a bunch of game enix decided to close years ago
It would be 100 times more effective to petition the pubs/devs directly than to go thru the EU
i think we need a law worldwide that forces company's to deliver an offline mode with all features except for co op & mp. Or refund at least 69% of every customer purchase
Independent organizations host Inara, EDDN, there used to be EDDB... There's no way nobody would offer to rehost the Elite servers. Sure a server running isn't free, the data migration would be complex, there should be backups through other 3rd parties, authentication could be an issue... i think the technical side is gonna be pretty hard to figure out.
Elite does not need new servers, just offline mode that starts from where online started 10 years ago, with optional DLC's. FD could really cash with it on GOG.
@@perttiroska9970 Half of the remaining players are here for AX combat and PVP.
None of which would be available in solo.
In fact, no role can be done in solo, besides perhaps exploration, as even trading relies on a background simulation that's made server-side
Thank you for sharing this!!!!
this will not revive games that dies recently, even games that will die next year :D but yeah sighned and happy in waiting
Helldivers 2 is far from being saved. Devs started banning players who made a psn, with the help of vpn, because there's still 180 countries unable to play it.... AFTER Playstation stated they weren't forcing people to use PSN and never reactivated the 180 countries that were blacklisted to play.
its not arrow head banning
its sony
its in theyre term of service that if sony figure out that if u use a vpn to make psn account
they have the right to terminate or banned your account
At least Elite wouldn't need new servers, just offline mode that starts from where online started 10 years ago, with optional DLC's for changes made. FD could really cash with it on GOG.
Also that affect single player game that somehow need connection to an account to be able to play
Done! Thanks for announcing this!
Sign this stupid petition. I've got stuff to do.
Sailing the high seas is one way to preserve games forever ⛵️ 🏴☠️ 🦜
not all... sadly "Live service" has more K/D ratio than any other practice
Australian petition is closed (> 10k signatures), but the Canadian petition is open until September 5! Go to stop killing games and you can find it in the Canada section
excellent initiative, i share the word. BUT : seems the links for the petition don't work...
Think they had network issues, hopefully because of us. I just was able to sign, please try again:)
@@hurmzz right, it worked the 2nd time I tried. Thanx
Already signed.
germany here~ signed it the moment I saw his video :3
Please sign the petition :)
You know the cursed monkey-paw result of this petition, right? It's "free" games with monthly subscriptions, that way they can turn off the servers at any time and don't have to do anything because you never paid a cent for the game, only the subscription. So now instead of paying $70 for a game that stops working in 5 years, you'll pay $9/mo for a game that stops working in 5 years. I guess on the plus side, if you get bored of it in less than 6 months, you save money.
And? I don't GET those games. If they are happy not to sell to me, fair enough. I ain't happy being sold to, then.
This entire Initiative is just...
Its the drunk guy that complains his favorite PUB has closed and now demands that the PUB is made so it can run forever, even without a Bartender.
Or that he can hire a Bartender himself that now works there instead.
very good initiative! I hope we will succeed :)
I'd love to add my signature to this but unfortunately I live in a country that did something stupid a couple of years ago that means I can't anymore
They should contact single player tarkov, the modders were able to make a server that you can host on your home comp and play the game offline.
Not alot to do with this video, but we still need you talking crap about elite dangerous, whats good with the Yin without the Yang. I was trying to guess what you would be saying about that game now. Missing you brother over here!
Lets help ross and gordon freeman save our games!
disliked by ubisoft lmao
I always hated this approach of artificially limiting players and deleting content because all the big companies care is: more money!!! This movement has my full support and I hope it will extend to other media as well, so we make sure every creation (be it good or bad) is protected by law!
god i hope this wil not go thru but rather be tweaked so that it works no one cares about the crew rlly, i still hope i can actually own my games in the future.
Okay, I'll do the best that I can to spread via my channels.
The link doesn’t lead to the petition and searching for it gives a network error or timeout error.
it does. check again!
Undr initiative progress it says “Given status cannot be mapped to currently supported timeline” and under Sources of funding it says “no content available”. Also there isnt a button to sign anything. The page just doesn’t look like how it is explained on stopkillinggames. Maybe the site is overwhelmed? I’ll try again later..
@@TheYamiks It literally isn't there. Either the site is down or the petition got taken down.
@@goofy851I think they are having network issues (hopefully because of this), it just loaded for me. Gonna try to sign again now because youtube’s browser sucks😅
gamers need to be extremely careful, they dont realize the extreme slippery slope you teeter on bringing any type of regulation or law or even basic consumer protection into gaming, it may only be a petition now, but if the wrong people champion it and it does end up making some laws dont be surprised when you end up way worse off then you are now
Filled out .
I listened to a software developer dismantle this with facts. Before signing, read up on both sides of the argument. This initiative is not well thought out.
If you mean Pirate Software, he's being disingenuous. This is just to bring it up to the government, NOT the final law that will be passed.
Once enough valid signatures are given, discussion is had and the actual points are refined. Its vague for a reason because Ross isnt a game dev and doesnt know enough about the industry.
Thors perspective as a dev would have been priceless information to take in and consider, but he refuses to even speak with Ross.
edit: The initiative can't even get any more detail anyway because there's a hard word limit. The initiative being vague is the correct procedure.
@elfireii328 Maybe Scott should ask more devs before posting the initiative. I have heard other devs than PirateSoftware saying the initiative needs a more specific problem. I am unsure if Scott talked with any developers. The FAQ is very hand wavey "np that's easy to do".
@@pallenda Have those devs tried to reach out? Who are they? What exactly did they say? Also read the second paragraph of my comment. The purpose of this is to get the discussion going and to get the government to take it seriously. Its not supposed to be the "final" version.
So who ever those other devs who had something to say, should say it. Reach out, make a video, and contribute their thoughts on how to improve the initiative.
@elfireii328 Yes, I did read the 2nd part, I still think the problem should be better defined before putting out the initiative for signing.
ThePrimeagen made a video. I don't know who reached out to who or at what time. I think it should be the ones making the initiative that should do the "study" and information gathering. Developers might not even have heard about it being worked on before the initiative came out.
@@pallenda Well thats good. I'll check out Primeagen's video. Thanks for letting me know.
Im pretty sure the initiative can still be revised before it gets sent to the government. So what better way than to actually start so devs and more knowledgeable people can catch wind of it.
I've typed this in all of my replies, but this isnt even close to being the final version of proposed law. Its simply to get people to actually talk about it and spread it in hopes to eventually implement something like it for the sake of increasing consumer power and choice in gaming.
I wish someone did this for movies
Movies can be downloaded and enjoyed completely without access to a server
Welcome to the civiie11 zone
Signed
Alternatively you don't buy ANY online only games. Which loses the game publisher your money, but I figure if they don't want to actually SELL me their thing, then I'll not buy it. It is why I didn't get, and still haven't got, Diablo3, and for which talking of not getting got me a LOT of insistence I was wrong and I would miss a great game and I was a luddite, etc. Seems like that "vote with your wallet" was just them telling you to shut it, because as soon as you do just that, they'll complain at you. Not getting Doom Eternal, ever, either, because it has Deneuvo DRM.
You do realoze that reality already disproves this theory. It will never happen
@@TheYamiks No, reality shows I didn't buy either of those things. I literally did not buy them. No sale.
What you seem to be missing is that if they hadn't done this "oh, online only so we can kill games by removing our servers allowing the game!" then they could have, dun dun dunnnn, MADE MORE MONEY.
Sad reality is : this is not reality and you can hope that BOBBY-the-casual-gamer will care enough is .....cute.
no we need RULES to be set, to prevent shit like killing games , just cuz a fucking server is shut down!
Guy said Planetside 2
Justice for the daughters of Southport
I just heard about wreck fest 2 and I really hope it doesn’t happen to it 😅
why were you doing the funny mustache guy pose in the thumbnail 💀
which one?
@@TheYamiks the austrian guy with the funny mustache. at a glance i thought you were hitting his version of the griddy in the image 💀
@@SSS333-AAA Terminally Online.
@@amergingiles 😭
@@SSS333-AAA he is pointing with one finger, not having a flat hand with all fingers stretched, you are desperately trying to see a Nazi salute, and it says more about you than it does about yamiks.
If this is a nazi pose then simply pointing people to a direction is also offensive, thats honestly retarded
Actually i could be looking at it wrong the thumbnail is chaotic but fist up with no finger is still opposite and fine compared to the third reich salute
Unless we are talking about Star Wars first order
But those movies are so bad they arent considered "canon" and are just a disney fanfiction
Liked just for the horse mask.
6336 hours space trucking in elite dangerous and getting as much of my money's worth as fast as I can before the game shuts down.
Planetside 2 mentioned
TLDR; Game companies have to stop pulling the plug on their online only / service games. When service cannot continue for whatever reason, said companies have to be forced to change their game so you don't need to require the online component to function.
What if they don't have the resources to comply or the company went out of business are you gonna force people to work for free?
@@martytube821 those are things out of control for any company. we're talking here about every game company that just pulls the plug cause they "want" to "end the terms of agreement" I have plenty of games to prove that just lying on the shelves cause their online component "has been taken out" while these games would have no issue running right now on my PC in a single player mode. Instead, they are picking up dust.
@@martytube821 Then they can't sell the game. Same as we can't "steal a policeman's helmet" etc.
I'm pretty sure most games warn you when you click through the consent pop ups to give up your rights in order to play in the first place. But this initiative seems a bit to broad as many online games are trash and lose money, there needs to be a threshold on maybe units sold or something cause this could shut down good or bad games before they even release or just more trash free to play games to avoid this. I agree something needs to be done but its not like this is something with a physical value as its digital data. IMO the gaming market is over saturated so more games fail.
EULA holds no ground! When a game is sold for XX$ it's automatically sold under perpetual licence.
for more info check that "Games as a service is Fraud" video for more info!
I'm pretty sure that those clauses are not legal, because they are AFTER you bought the stuff, so are NOT required for the license.
@@TheYamiks And that EULA lacking any ground is a proven fact in Germany, and why they never litigate it elsewhere: they don't want everyone knowing that the EULA is toothless, so they don't use teeth.
I wish elite dangerous came back to Console :(
I miss u Yamiks
It's not gone. You just don't have access to planet surfaces.
@@rocket2739 And new ships, thargoid story didnt progress either.... Nothing updated after Odyssey dropped..
This is the Koney 2012 of video games. If successful, all this will do is kill live service games.
GOOD
@@TheYamiks lol you know that's every MMORPG, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for what this is trying to accomplish, but this ain't it, chief.
you... you do realize that this is NOT what the petition and movement is about!?
seriously it's not hard to understand : go re-re-re-re-re-re-read what StopKillingGames is about!
Literally a good thing mate.
Oh, well...they'll give us a *refund,* right? 😅
*RIGHT???* 😱
my channel that i had since 2008 got removed from youtube for posting links to the petition and to ross's channel, literally without warning
lost videos of my grandma while she was still alive forever
if anyone knows any youtube connections that could help i would appreciate it massively
my appeal was denied but there is no way if an actual human saw my case that my channel would've been deleted
I hope this works
ross is a legend for doing this so everyone get your finger out of yer arse and support him
Got mine, and my boyfriend’s finger out!
Im still salty about Darkspore... so, signed.
Lets goooooo
i like the idea im just not sure how you get around not having online servers for some of these games, look at elite, so yea in theory you could push a update that removes the requirement for fdev authentication and you could play solo.... but thats it, there is no game servers either, so unless fdev releases the server side of the software that end users could host themselves, you will be forever stuck in solo, and even if they did release the server, the game wouldn't work the same, you would have divergence in the simulation across different privately hosted servers, kinda what has happened with the splitting of horizons and oddy, so i admire the idea, i just dont see how even if legislation gets put in place, short of forcing fdev to continue hosting the servers, you still wont have the games full functionality, and i dont agree with forcing a company to continue providing a service. i dont have a easy answer here, i think the best we can expect with these games is a final update that allows solo playable offline, but thats all you will ever have, and for games like helldivers, without multiplayer servers, the game basically is dead, who plays hd2 alone?
If that was the only alternative, I’d take the solo only option
And? Release a server and you can match, like you can right now with private servers in E:D.
@@markhackett2302 it wont be the same, even in solo the BGS and powerplay activities are synced. as i said its admirable and solo play would be better than nothing but it still isnt playable like it use to be in that case
What about UK people?
BREXIT....
but seriously thou : check StopKillingGames. there will be info coming!
This is especially bad when playing older switch games on newer switch models. The system now locks you out of the game unless you download the latest updates. On older switch models you could just start the game without the update. And most of the updates aren't even major fixes. It is infuriating.
All this is fair, but issue is, at some point somebody has to pay for it... Servers aren't free, people sign, that's fine, but will they accept to support the scheme once they're asked for money?
You... you do realize"this is not what we are asking?!
@@TheYamiks Mmmm, sorry but IMO it is? The texte says: "prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher", which means giving the source codes, rights, and various stuff so that the player community can still operate the game. But this obviously concerns only games that need a server can't operate without a server (you can't disable a CD game), so this requires to keep tjjhese servers afloat, i.e. money. Who's gonna pay? How would this work? I totally agree with the principle, but I don't get how this would work. For exemple, Frontier once said they would give the players control if they decide to ever stop Elite, but how would this work? Would we CMDRs pay a fee? To whom? Will people pay? Trust?
...what logic are you using?
we are not asking for source-code!
It can be OFFLINE mode, it can be dedicated server software release, instructions to make it playable post support stop..and yes it could be source code too, but the level of solopsistic thinking that goes on around a simple wish: "TO NOT KILL GAMES" that it amazes me!
When the publisher stops selling and supporting the game ..all we want is for the game to continue working!!!! Seriously : are you advocating/excusing for games...say like Elite Dangerous to be killed?!
Nice dreads
Pay attention and stop buying games like this.
Aaaand the site is down.
I was just able to sign, please try again:)
Pirate Software stinks
Hear Hear!!!
you also wrong about licencing, having a license key does not give you the right to do whatever you want with it, it gives you the right to do with it what you will within the confines of the license agreement. for example, you cant copy it, you cant re-sell it in a lot of cases, you cant alter the software in most cases, you cant dissect the software and publish your findings. so you certainly cannot do whatever you want, and this is true for most proprietary software regardless of the media through which it is obtained.
basic idea is clear. the little nuances i leave to legal people to explain, not a layman like me.
No, it does. If it is after the sale, you can ignore it, it was not a requirement of the license. If it isn't protected under copyright (and installation is NOT protected by copyright, not only are you not installing, their installer is, but since it is a required use of the work, it can't be copyright controlled).
You can do everything you can with a book. Sell it, make a copy for backup, a "Turning Copy" for your significant other, etc.
The thing is, licenses for things like software is extremely anti consumer and should be changed.
It falls in line with the EU's right to repair intiative.
Adobe has been pushing this line for a long time, and only recently got into trouble with adding "unlimited access to user data stored on the cloud" in their terms and conditions.
@@elfireii328 no, most licenses dont have any contingencies for modifying it for personal use, there may be some in writing, but they arent enforceable, my point is about say you published the decompiled source code to windows XP, which you can find, but distributing it is illigal. same goes for most source code, i dont think it is realistic to police so to speak individual tinkerers and modders to keep a sw working, the issue is when you start distributing proprietary sourcecode without the ip holders consent.
@@elfireii328 the other thing to consider is the whole right to repair thing kinda falls apart with most modern games because you arent buying a software, you are buying access to a service, you do not have right to repair a service. i think the end solution is to simply require games like elite to become eminent domain/opensource once the ip holder decides to stop supporting the service. this way the community can do what it likes and you arent forcing a company to continue supporting a dead service, on the fflip side, games that are more service than product should state so clearly at time of purchase.
Honestly, this shouldn't be a law, because there are games where it would be technically impossible, because they rely on the servers so much that they would have to be rewritten from scratch.
A petition ? Seriously ?
es jau parakstiju 👍
Lovely sentiment but stupid proposition for anything beyond single player only games. What is the punishment for not doing this? You gona fine the bankrupt/hyper rich company? Or try and win a court battle against a publisher picking up the IP after a studio is consumed/implodes? The outcome will either change nothing or create IP destruction.
You know what? What if Steam or Epic shuts downs?
I could see Epic store being shut down, not sure what will happen but will be interesting. Steam however makes so much money that it's kinda impossible at least in my lifetime 50-60 years. Generally in the EU games are considered goods, meaning there would be issues if customers don't have access to their games anymore. I assume Epic would perhaps have to send drm free installer to each customer for their games at that point it would be on the customer to keep them safe.
The unfortunate sad truth about this is that this would only force game companies to abide by the new laws set by the EU. They would still have complete free reign over the US and other countries that aren't part of the EU.
sure. but since games MOSTLY live in GLOBAL economy : it would be far easier for these companies to make games playable once support ends, than prevent a select region from playing said game (even if PSN bullshit has me NOT playing ghost of tsushima or helldivers)
@@TheYamiks These companies would go one of two routes (depending on the company). They would either abide by the rules and make the changes globally like you said or they would refuse to allow players from the EU regions from playing the games at all like Sony's already doing, pretty much more companies would follow Sony's shadow and do the same thing.
It's easier and more profitable to not be a dick like sony is being .... soo sony is the exception, not the norm even now!
The "force" part is what worries me, how do you force someone to work for free if the game loses money and the company is closed. There's so many games that fail now a days from market over saturation. Just remember governments love broad authority citizens give them and good luck reigning it back in.
@@martytube821 So they don't have copyrights? After all, you just said they can't. And we are "forced" to pay in perpetuity for a game that isn't. We can't loan them our cash for loaning their game. How is that fair?
Own elite dangerous server?? Oh modding will go crazy. Bet you we will have 200 new ships in 2 years tops.
You don't buy games. Like beer, you rent it.
In Europe, you buy the game. That's how the law works there
You rent beer? Did they come and take your piss in the morning?
This approach is pointless.
If the idea is to preserve the usability of the program that is the game, refunds and after the fact initiatives are insufficient.
Only the industry can do this by creating an interest group that certifies an offline mode, and the customer base demanding games have these certifications. It doesn't have to be available up front, it doesn't have to be good, but forcing the engineering to support this mode from the game's inception is necessary if you are serious about preventing bricking.
But we both know consumers won't force adoption of such a mark by withholding their dollars, so the only hope is to get it trending with engine developers to make it easy and standard.
Signed