Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!
You’re right. It seems dressage is slowly becoming like an act in a three ring circus. First comes rider desensitisation (to the effect of shortcuts), then comes tolerance, and then comes acceptance, and then comes expectation - of flash to make up for all the holes. The poor horses become tools instead of partners.
And yes, I agree. The value of a good Grand Prix horse has ridiculously increased. A lot of horses are being turned into puppets instead of our partners. A good score means more than a nice ride for way too many people. And unfortunately the FEI allows all of this to happen(or causes this?). The amount of rides like this, with overcooked/panicking/misunderstanding horses has increased with those values. For the simple reason that ‘fast-training’ is applauded by many, including the fei, and pays off (literally). Also the amount of horses on Grand Prix level is imo not normal. Not every horse is made to perform in this type of environment. And last, a lot of horses nowadays are just excited or incited until they’re barely functioning. (Gal is a great example of these horses) Just to make them as expressive as possible.
As a former breeder of of Imported German stock I watched the evolution of how both the breeding of and the emphasis on " exotic " movement and a " spicy temperament began taking over the whole purpose of breeding Sport Horses. When I began, a very wise German man, he too a breeder in Germany, and then here in the US when he immigrated, told me that as breeders our goal should be to 1) make a new generation better than the one before, 2) that at least 95% of our horses were being bred for Amateurs to ride, and 3) not to be influenced by the hubris that you will produce the next Olympic Champion. Unfortunately, the last one has unfortunately taken over the common sense of it all, including at the Verbands , and the tall, more " flashy " and " high energy " horses that are " thoroughbredy" types ( and trust me when I say that I have ridden plenty on and off the track) that have barely made it into the stud books because they are exquisitely bred and built confirmationaly, that they are almost too hot to handle. These horses are classified as " only a professional can ride " or we don't know if even a professional can ride. We can see in the development of the Dressage saddles, the blocks built in front of the knee and part way down the thigh, that this was necessary for holding the rider in the correct and secure position in response to these highly strung horses. The change began happening in the late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, Michael Plumb, 3-Day Eventing Hall of Famer, wrote a Newsletter in which he stated that he preferred to call the European invaders " Dumbloods " and preferred his thoroughbreds instead. Well, apparently that was the wrong thing to say. But the American market had basically known 2 breed types: Cowboy horses and sleek, semi- " crazy " thoroughbreds. And so the desire for a Thoroughbred type was set in motion. We had to breed what the market demanded or don't sell your horses. I think that we are seeing the results of the route that breed registries took, and as you said above, these horses are much more difficult to relax and the pressure on both the rider and the horse becomes too difficult sometimes to deal with. You have riders getting tough with their hands and holding on, holding up, and holding back their horses. You have tense, hollow backs, open mouths, or to bring up the discussion of " hyper flexion " of yesterday's discussion. These horses, when they finally get maturity in anyway possible ( including unfortunately Rollkur ) and fake confidence ( it seems) they're exotic and exquisite. That's if they don't have their brain blown first. I stopped breeding in 2005, because I no longer wanted to participate in this. In 2007, one of my mares tied for 3rd Nationwide for 4 & 5 year old mares. She was 4. I was truly surprised and very pleased because she didn't go like any of these horses. Several times she scored 9 and 10's on suppleness and willingness to work. At that point I saw the writing on the walls for what was wanted and I personally didn't want to do that. I wanted to enjoy my horses from birth until they were sold. I didn't think that I could handle emotionally or physically ( I was then in my late 50's) the more " hot " type, so I got out. This was just my personal opinion though. I hope that I am not insulting any of you with this. That is not my intention at all.
@@jinxkrug7000 No, I agree completely. I’ve stopped breeding almost completely too. Not just because of current expectations of a ‘good horse’. But due to the costs too. It has become even more expensive than it already was. I think the Netherlands is the ‘epicentre’ of wrong priorities for breeders. We see a lot of great trots, incredible canters, but a good walk is rare.. There was a discussion a while ago about whether the hindleg should be a priority. A typical a Dutch breeder has a quick/electric hindleg as their first priority. And imo that’s where everything goes wrong. A bad hind leg is perfectly trainable, a bad walk/character/fundament isn’t.
@@claudia273 Yes, I think sadly that breeders like us leaving and taking our standards of conformation, character, willingness to work, and the very qualities of the gates with us is a detriment to the horses, and even to many riders. I don't think that I am just patting ourselves on the back. During my time as a breeder I produced many fine horses, and from the sounds of it, so did you. I truly believe that by not taking the horse as a whole, but focusing on only one part, a snappy hind leg as you say, breeders are setting their horses up for Veterinary and emotional abuse, because horses are being made to do things that they may not be suitable for. Now I am going to sound like the old fart that I am. Back when Warmbloods began taking over the Equine disciplines, there was a good reason for it. First, they were built to do it and stand up to the physical demands of Jumping, Dressage, and Eventing. Secondly, their brains were made to withstand the pressures of the demands of each sport, and thirdly, their character for the most part enjoyed the bond and partnership with their riders and trainers. I say, for the most part, because bad trainers and bad riders can sour even the best temperament and break the willing character of even the best horse. I am sure you have, and I know that I have watched some of the world 's best horses be subject to this ( Totilas comes to mind). IMO, an 8 year old horse showing at a World class Grand Prix level is just too mentally and physically immature to be doing it. It's all rushing for the glory and finances of both rider and owners. In the 90's, most of the horses at that level were in or around their late teens, and rarely 12-14 years old. Today, people are impatient and want to do whatever it takes to get them out there. And again, just my opinion, I think it shows. When I purchased my then 5 year old Hanoverian in 1986, it took me years to work up the levels, build his muscles and confidence. We didn't just appear at Grand Prix. We worked our way up through the levels and got him to the point that he just loved his job. We don't see too many horses today that I feel look like they are enjoying themselves. They almost look robotic. They seem to not be expressive, except with what they used to penalize as wringing of the tail. Like you said, it seems that the Judges are only focused on one part of the whole, not the entire picture. And so this has become the goal of the breeding world. And then the Judges will get bored and focus on some other part, say snappy knees instead of the shoulder swing in the extended trot that say Gifted had. And the breeders will change the focus once again so they can keep up with that demand from the buying public. It's really sad. I couldn't do it.
I'm not a dressage competive rider but as soon as this horse walked in the ring you could tell it was tense. Dressage horse should look like a ballet dancer, smooth and flowing. This horse was tense chopping on the bit, can only imagine how his normal schooling day goes!
Wow, the comments from the experts.... if you have not ridden at this level save your armchair comments. Her hands are going forward after each half halt, he is so strong and feeling so fresh he bucks and is wanting to be a race horse. At C she gives a rein and pets him before the extended canter, knowing what she is sitting on and probably not wanting to extend the canter... In the two tempi she is trying to get him off his shoulder and straight to start the changes..
Something must’ve been wrong. They’ve never been my favourite combination, but they’ve always seemed kinda decent.. Does anyone know if they stated what was off here? Because that was painful to watch. The communication between them was almost completely gone.
What am I missing here? Their ride wasn't perfect and he was reactive, everyday at work isn't perfect. Wtf. Haha. I think she did a great job handling his little moments.
More hand requires more leg to keep the horse forward, which requires more hand to keep control. Until the horse has had enough and loses his mind. That’s what I saw.
@@DressageHub At what point do you realize, "That's it, we've lost. Call it a day and go back to school." Are points awarded for toughing it out and finishing the test, "come hell or high water?" To watch the riders of today prolong the torment from point to point to point, while the horse gets more and more worked up and irrational, is sickening. I want to remind riders, "You can't do anything with a horse without their permission - they're bigger, stronger, faster, and more prone to panic than we are." We can't make a horse do anything. We need to make them want to - in a way that strengthens, rather than destroys, the willing partnership we all so crave.
Horrible riding, she would do better sticking to knitting. I liked the horse. With a rider with sympathetic hands and the ability to teach him self carriage he would do well.
Oh dont worry, she has another one at home when this one goes to the sale barn totally ruined. They just eat through these horses like they are nothing. People blame "off day" but I call BS. These horses blow up just like this or worse at home, the ones that make it to the public show ring are the ones that tolerate this type of abuse. What do you all think happens to the ones who fight back? The warmblood breeding industry seems to produce a lot of babies. Hrm.
Omg her hands are absolutely atrocious. I find it heartbreaking that people who can't ride for shit are allowed to compete at these levels. She should be embarrassed. What a disgrace.
Bad horsemanship ? I'm sorry, I didn't see it, I see a combination that has work to do, the rider wasn't completely without faults but who is, the horse was tensed after a misunderstanding between the two and wasn't very forgiving, the tension increased and the rider stops to go home and work on the problems. That is how good horsemanship looks like. Dressage is a learning process for both rider and horse, no one is born on the highest level, it's a long way and they are wel underway.
The whole time he seemed a bit off. I am not sure if it's one of those days or if the bond is just not there. He was not picking his head up towards the middle and he didn't have good posture. She needed to collect him about more and be softer on her reins. She did a great job but in the end the horse just didn't want to do it. It doesn't matter how good of a rider you are if your horse just is not having it.
Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!
Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!
Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!
Absolute Zustimmung! I absolutely agree.
Danke:)
You’re right. It seems dressage is slowly becoming like an act in a three ring circus. First comes rider desensitisation (to the effect of shortcuts), then comes tolerance, and then comes acceptance, and then comes expectation - of flash to make up for all the holes. The poor horses become tools instead of partners.
And yes, I agree. The value of a good Grand Prix horse has ridiculously increased. A lot of horses are being turned into puppets instead of our partners. A good score means more than a nice ride for way too many people. And unfortunately the FEI allows all of this to happen(or causes this?).
The amount of rides like this, with overcooked/panicking/misunderstanding horses has increased with those values. For the simple reason that ‘fast-training’ is applauded by many, including the fei, and pays off (literally). Also the amount of horses on Grand Prix level is imo not normal. Not every horse is made to perform in this type of environment.
And last, a lot of horses nowadays are just excited or incited until they’re barely functioning. (Gal is a great example of these horses)
Just to make them as expressive as possible.
"A good score means more than a nice ride for way too many people." Well said, and so true.👍
As a former breeder of of Imported German stock I watched the evolution of how both the breeding of and the emphasis on " exotic " movement and a " spicy temperament began taking over the whole purpose of breeding Sport Horses. When I began, a very wise German man, he too a breeder in Germany, and then here in the US when he immigrated, told me that as breeders our goal should be to 1) make a new generation better than the one before, 2) that at least 95% of our horses were being bred for Amateurs to ride, and 3) not to be influenced by the hubris that you will produce the next Olympic Champion. Unfortunately, the last one has unfortunately taken over the common sense of it all, including at the Verbands , and the tall, more " flashy " and
" high energy " horses that are " thoroughbredy" types
( and trust me when I say that I have ridden plenty on and off the track) that have barely made it into the stud books because they are exquisitely bred and built confirmationaly, that they are almost too hot to handle. These horses are classified as " only a professional can ride " or we don't know if even a professional can ride. We can see in the development of the Dressage saddles, the blocks built in front of the knee and part way down the thigh, that this was necessary for holding the rider in the correct and secure position in response to these highly strung horses. The change began happening in the late 90's and early 2000's. Back then, Michael Plumb, 3-Day Eventing Hall of Famer, wrote a Newsletter in which he stated that he preferred to call the European invaders
" Dumbloods " and preferred his thoroughbreds instead. Well, apparently that was the wrong thing to say. But the American market had basically known 2 breed types: Cowboy horses and sleek, semi- " crazy " thoroughbreds. And so the desire for a Thoroughbred type was set in motion. We had to breed what the market demanded or don't sell your horses. I think that we are seeing the results of the route that breed registries took, and as you said above, these horses are much more difficult to relax and the pressure on both the rider and the horse becomes too difficult sometimes to deal with. You have riders getting tough with their hands and holding on, holding up, and holding back their horses. You have tense, hollow backs, open mouths, or to bring up the discussion of " hyper flexion " of yesterday's discussion. These horses, when they finally get maturity in anyway possible ( including unfortunately Rollkur ) and fake confidence ( it seems) they're exotic and exquisite. That's if they don't have their brain blown first. I stopped breeding in 2005, because I no longer wanted to participate in this. In 2007, one of my mares tied for 3rd Nationwide for 4 & 5 year old mares. She was 4. I was truly surprised and very pleased because she didn't go like any of these horses. Several times she scored 9 and 10's on suppleness and willingness to work. At that point I saw the writing on the walls for what was wanted and I personally didn't want to do that. I wanted to enjoy my horses from birth until they were sold. I didn't think that I could handle emotionally or physically ( I was then in my late 50's) the more " hot " type, so I got out. This was just my personal opinion though. I hope that I am not insulting any of you with this. That is not my intention at all.
@@jinxkrug7000 No, I agree completely. I’ve stopped breeding almost completely too. Not just because of current expectations of a ‘good horse’. But due to the costs too. It has become even more expensive than it already was.
I think the Netherlands is the ‘epicentre’ of wrong priorities for breeders.
We see a lot of great trots, incredible canters, but a good walk is rare..
There was a discussion a while ago about whether the hindleg should be a priority.
A typical a Dutch breeder has a quick/electric hindleg as their first priority. And imo that’s where everything goes wrong. A bad hind leg is perfectly trainable, a bad walk/character/fundament isn’t.
@@claudia273
Yes, I think sadly that breeders like us leaving and taking our standards of conformation, character, willingness to work, and the very qualities of the gates with us is a detriment to the horses, and even to many riders. I don't think that I am just patting ourselves on the back. During my time as a breeder I produced many fine horses, and from the sounds of it, so did you. I truly believe that by not taking the horse as a whole, but focusing on only one part, a snappy hind leg as you say, breeders are setting their horses up for Veterinary and emotional abuse, because horses are being made to do things that they may not be suitable for. Now I am going to sound like the old fart that I am. Back when Warmbloods began taking over the Equine disciplines, there was a good reason for it. First, they were built to do it and stand up to the physical demands of Jumping, Dressage, and Eventing. Secondly, their brains were made to withstand the pressures of the demands of each sport, and thirdly, their character for the most part enjoyed the bond and partnership with their riders and trainers. I say, for the most part, because bad trainers and bad riders can sour even the best temperament and break the willing character of even the best horse. I am sure you have, and I know that I have watched some of the world 's best horses be subject to this ( Totilas comes to mind). IMO, an 8 year old horse showing at a World class Grand Prix level is just too mentally and physically immature to be doing it. It's all rushing for the glory and finances of both rider and owners. In the 90's, most of the horses at that level were in or around their late teens, and rarely 12-14 years old. Today, people are impatient and want to do whatever it takes to get them out there. And again, just my opinion, I think it shows. When I purchased my then 5 year old Hanoverian in 1986, it took me years to work up the levels, build his muscles and confidence. We didn't just appear at Grand Prix. We worked our way up through the levels and got him to the point that he just loved his job. We don't see too many horses today that I feel look like they are enjoying themselves. They almost look robotic. They seem to not be expressive, except with what they used to penalize as wringing of the tail. Like you said, it seems that the Judges are only focused on one part of the whole, not the entire picture. And so this has become the goal of the breeding world. And then the Judges will get bored and focus on some other part, say snappy knees instead of the shoulder swing in the extended trot that say Gifted had. And the breeders will change the focus once again so they can keep up with that demand from the buying public. It's really sad. I couldn't do it.
Wow. Her hands are so freaking rough! And that poor horse is trying so hard for her. I'm really glad she retired.
Did she? 🤔
@@mariepascale6921 According to the description under the video she did. Did I read it wrong? Always a possibility!
Also, I found the video distressing enough that I couldn't watch it all the way through. :/
I'm not a dressage competive rider but as soon as this horse walked in the ring you could tell it was tense. Dressage horse should look like a ballet dancer, smooth and flowing. This horse was tense chopping on the bit, can only imagine how his normal schooling day goes!
Wow she’s rough with her hands!! I’m surprised the horse tolerated the yanking and see sawing for so long!
He did a rather smart piaffe passage, then got tense in canter = she retires quickly and pats him, what is wrong in that??
Wow, she should be grateful she didn't get thrown off his back
😳 Poor baby.
Said, ‘Get the EFF out of my mouth!!’
Dunno about that ride, but I had to download the music onto my Spotify playlist. 👍👍👍👍👍
Wow, the comments from the experts.... if you have not ridden at this level save your armchair comments. Her hands are going forward after each half halt, he is so strong and feeling so fresh he bucks and is wanting to be a race horse. At C she gives a rein and pets him before the extended canter, knowing what she is sitting on and probably not wanting to extend the canter... In the two tempi she is trying to get him off his shoulder and straight to start the changes..
Something must’ve been wrong. They’ve never been my favourite combination, but they’ve always seemed kinda decent..
Does anyone know if they stated what was off here? Because that was painful to watch. The communication between them was almost completely gone.
What am I missing here? Their ride wasn't perfect and he was reactive, everyday at work isn't perfect. Wtf. Haha. I think she did a great job handling his little moments.
You are correct. I think this was the end of good horsemanship. Our most recent dressage disasters show riders desperate to win
More hand requires more leg to keep the horse forward, which requires more hand to keep control. Until the horse has had enough and loses his mind. That’s what I saw.
@@DressageHub At what point do you realize, "That's it, we've lost. Call it a day and go back to school." Are points awarded for toughing it out and finishing the test, "come hell or high water?" To watch the riders of today prolong the torment from point to point to point, while the horse gets more and more worked up and irrational, is sickening. I want to remind riders, "You can't do anything with a horse without their permission - they're bigger, stronger, faster, and more prone to panic than we are." We can't make a horse do anything. We need to make them want to - in a way that strengthens, rather than destroys, the willing partnership we all so crave.
Horrible riding, she would do better sticking to knitting.
I liked the horse. With a rider with sympathetic hands and the ability to teach him self carriage he would do well.
Stick to knitting? The net does turn up the finest of folk. I'll go back to folding laundry and washing floors. Pardon the interruption.
OMG 😆 I love that-‘knitting’ 😂😂😂Totally going to use that one in the ring.
@@jessicaobrien3342 👍🙏
Oh dont worry, she has another one at home when this one goes to the sale barn totally ruined. They just eat through these horses like they are nothing. People blame "off day" but I call BS. These horses blow up just like this or worse at home, the ones that make it to the public show ring are the ones that tolerate this type of abuse. What do you all think happens to the ones who fight back? The warmblood breeding industry seems to produce a lot of babies. Hrm.
uumm bad horsemanship? did i miss something?
Extremely unforgiving hands
I think it was good horsemanship to retire. Read the description
Omg her hands are absolutely atrocious. I find it heartbreaking that people who can't ride for shit are allowed to compete at these levels. She should be embarrassed. What a disgrace.
Me da la impresión que algo lo asustó,tal ves un insecto,el caballo iba evolucionando bien y sin razón aparente empezó a desvariar.
Beautiful horse don't think the horse likes her
Bad horsemanship ?
I'm sorry, I didn't see it, I see a combination that has work to do, the rider wasn't completely without faults but who is, the horse was tensed after a misunderstanding between the two and wasn't very forgiving, the tension increased and the rider stops to go home and work on the problems. That is how good horsemanship looks like. Dressage is a learning process for both rider and horse, no one is born on the highest level, it's a long way and they are wel underway.
There is no fluidity in the movements. Why put yourself and your horse through such misery.
The whole time he seemed a bit off. I am not sure if it's one of those days or if the bond is just not there. He was not picking his head up towards the middle and he didn't have good posture. She needed to collect him about more and be softer on her reins. She did a great job but in the end the horse just didn't want to do it. It doesn't matter how good of a rider you are if your horse just is not having it.
Is it worse than so many other riders now a days? here the horse SHOWS it hurts. But some horses ''only'' have an open mouth.
A good reminder that horses are fundamentally animals. They can not always perform
....
The flying changes the horse looks so stressed and stiff
Yikes..spur much?
Ich bin in oiva vova, im stall und freue mich jeden tag ueber die m.e.t oliva nova viele gruesse auch an die internationalen Nanni Rabe
Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!
Sure if she could have gotten him off her hands she would have. He was obviously very tense and balled up. Good for her for discontinuing. Too me that is good horsemanship!