How would Super Rugby teams fare in the Champions Cup? | Aotearoa Rugby Pod
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2025
- The lads have plenty of big club games to react to this week after finals in Europe and Japan as well as some huge results in Super Rugby Pacific. We start by dissecting the games in Christchurch and Hamilton before casting an eye over the Champions Cup final.
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Aldégheri, Baille, Merkler, Netti, Marchand, Mauvaka, Brennan, Meafou, Cros, NTamack, Costes, Lebel, Ramos, all players who have passed through the Toulouse training center
(academy).
It's not money that makes the team, it's the academy, a bit of respect.
France can’t win a World Cup, you say toulouse only worries about the club scene, that’s why France can’t win a world cup
France reached 3 finals and 6 semi finals, losing many times by a single point. You speak of France as if they never play well or take scalps, they do. It's just bad luck they haven't got over the line yet.@@carlthomas7101
@@carlthomas7101 I do not see your point. A city club is one thing, a national team is an other. Toulouse has a long story providing players to the national team. The Top 14 clubs have signed an agreement with the French federation for their international french players. But the French are playing many more games than most of the other countries each season.
France has played 3 WC finals and they should have won the 2011 one. Wait and see...
@@carlthomas7101Thanks of World Rugby.
@@marco-dn7kdand more important, they play without Refereeing help and World rugby assistance. 😢
Super Rugby: 17 games max
URC: 20 games + 8 Champions Cup max
Prem: 18 games + 8 Champions Cup max (+ Prem Cup 7 games)
Top 14: 29 games + 8 Champions Cup max
If a Super Rugby team were to play an entire season in the NH they would struggle with the physical demand over a prolonged period, it's a completely different preperation. If a Super Rugby team were to just play Champions Cup they'd have more of a chance but I think the style for knockout rugby wouldn't suit many of the teams
That just shows how insane is top 14!
Why France send their babies to SH tours to rest senior players. I think that is why they cracked in the RWC QF.
@@MrBreakdownBoy
SH tours are one thing, RWC is an other.
SH tours are occurring in june when Top 14 is not over reason why many of the best players are not selected for the tour and then in november.
Did the French really crack at the last WC in France ?
As Ben O'Keeffe who took probably 3 or 4 of the most strange decisions in Rugby history... He later confessed his mistakes but the damage was done and the Boks won by 1 point.
@@alexandregarcia9726not sure if insane is the right word but the toughest compétition surely.
Beside if the regular season (26 games) qualifying the 1st 6 for the play off, there are quarterfinals from 3 to 6. The winners then play semi finals against 1 and 2.
The winners play the final.
Which means that the 6th of the regular season can beat the 1st...
These play off may add up 2 or 3 more games to the winner's season.
I don't know about that, super rugby is played over a shorter much period Feb-June with one or two weeks off. URC is from October to June with many weeks off.
SA fan here so seen both sides.
We need a Champions Cup vs Super Rugby winners match - just an annual tradition for bragging rights, like “club world champs”
That be funny 😂
Where would they play?
And idiots will conclude that whoever wins = the best hemisphere.
😂😂😂😂
Nah that would be irrelevant
Champions Cup winners have no reason to play The Super champs, they have more reason to play Japan Top League Champs than the Super champs
Can we please drop the Aotearoa pandering 🙄
To be honest, i hate these 'show piece' games. They are always end of season and not taken very seriously by those involved
Honestly, you disrespect Antoine Dupont, even with all the respect I have for Gibson-Park who is a good player and having a great season, you can't compare him to Dupont.
Dupont is a monster, he's an alien, he can't be human, it's impossible. This guy revolutionized his position because he can do absolutely everything. He's a dynamite, a manager, a defender, he has the longest kicking game on the international circuit, incredible game vision, phenomenal power, there's nothing he can't do. In this final, he made 4 contests (as many as all the Leinster forwards), achieved 2 50-22s, countered Low, buried a maul, caused a yellow card...
This year he joined the sevens and for his second tournament, he won a title in LA while France had not won one since 2005.
You really have to put some respect on his name, this guy is a game changer unlike Gibson-Park, and without a doubt the best player in the world over the last 4 years.
- 3 times best player of the 6 nations tournament
- 1 time best player in the world world rugby (2 times finalist)
- 2 cup champions (2 times best player)
- 3 Top 14 (the most competitive championship in the world)
So please stop comparing him to Gibson-Park just because he's having a good season. You don't compare an alien with a human.
WELL SAID!!! it is so frustrating seeing these "rugby pundits" be biased towards a kiwi player when he is nothing compared to Dupont. Your comment perfectly describes this. love to see people calling others on their bs
I'm pretty sure Bryn Hall said Dupont is the best player in the world so i'm unsure what you are on about?
Totally true. Dupont is the best player in the world. New Zealand and South Africa are the best Rugby nations in the world, best world cup winners in the world, best at being number one in the world, best at most other rugby related things.....but Dupont is the best player in the world. 👏
But please don't call him the GOAT. No player can be called that.
Dupont is far better than JGP. Dupont showed that he was far superior at the weekend
Agree, idk how parsons can say he’s not sure what order
This shouldn’t even be a discussion. Dupont has been the best scrum half and (arguably) the best backline player in the world for years. He is a complete rugby player, comparable to Carter ( even though they play different positions).
JGP is at the very least the 2nd best 9 in world. Wish we had him for the Bokke… would suit us perfectly.
JGP is a brilliant SH it's just Dupont is the greatest all round player to ever play rugby.
Agree, JGP is a fantastic player and one of the best in the world at the moment but Dupont is on another level. He is comfortably the best player in the world at the moment and is going to be in the conversation as the greatest to ever play the game by the end of his career (if he's not already).
the question should be "How would Super Rugby teams fare against Antoine Dupont?" :)
as a south african, its been amazing for our teams to have this exposure. what i'd say the big difference is between e.g. Toulouse + Leinster and the rest, is these 2 teams have an incredible ability to "plan well" for an entire season..our SH teams don't have that level of sophistication. we may beat them on a once off, but its tough to match them for consistency
As a saffa, you know nothing about rugby. NH rugby + sa is c tier at best.
Some one with kiwi in their name is a saffa? Nice try mate. Four world cups is c tier 🤣
@@JbRezurectd he's probably one of those "south africans" that left the country in the 90s & still waves the old flag (the ones the rest of us are embarrassed about)
@@JbRezurectdHe's replying to the OP. He's not a Saffa. Just a Kiwi laughing at the NH and us Anyway, 4 WC winners crybaby 💚💛🇿🇦
Says a kiwi stay off the magic mushrooms bru !@KiwiPepega
Am an Irish man Dupont is one of the players of all time
simply THE GOAT 🐐
I’m Irish and you can’t put JGP in the same sentence as Dupont. The guy would be the best in the world in every position from the back row to full back.
I would not rule him out for the hooker position either.
bullshit
@@riverwolf654 Bang On
Making Toulouse’s success a money thing is ridiculous. I am not a ST fan by any means, but their culture of winning trophies is outstanding. They also produce young players quite often from the region (Dupont is an example) or develop players from excellent prospects to international. They are to rugby what Barcelona or Ajax are to football (if you have an idea of what i am talking about).
Dupont is Castre
@@DM-rp9ik Ha ha, true, he started playing professional rugby in Castres only, but he actually comes from the Gers department and as i remember went to secondary school in Toulouse.
@DM-rp9ik He's from and played for Auch. (Age group)
@@mikesmith-rp1mb Auch is indeed in the Gers :p
After how Dupont played how do you even start a 9 conversation talking up JGP ...
I know what you mean. JGP is performing at very high level every week, he's an excellent player but Dupont is a freakish superhuman without equal.
He hates anything that is French and love the Irish. It’s his heart speaking and not his head. He is a good analyst but sometimes struggles to admit things against people he dislikes.
I dont think JGP is as close to Dupont as they are making out in this.
No disrespect to him as he's a great player, but Dupont's work in defence sets him apart. No other 9 can do what he does in that area
Roigard is going in this direction and being about 10cm taller it should be easier for him. Awful to pick such long term injury but he will come back strong.
Faf de klerk is a far second.
@@nikolakozhuharov1042 height is overrated. And Roigard is taller but not much bigger.
Also apart from defensive work is Dupont far ahead of JGP. He has the creativity and impact of 10. Often the main playmaker in the team.
@@LomuHabana he can bulk up if need be and I reckon he is quite alright on defense even now
Most Leinster fans completely agree that it’s points on the board that matters and not taking three points when they were on cost us again. Leinster have this mentality that they need to score tries and you do it’s just better to do it when you aren’t chasing the game and that’s their problem in finals. They keep going to the corner instead of kicking their goals. They haven’t learned.
Largely this. I think the World Cup QF had a bit of that too - don't remember but I think some early penalties were kicked to the corner rather than for points (when Ireland have an issue with being out of QFs by 20 minutes). However, Leinster were criticised in 2022 for not going to the corner and kicking points at every opportunity (a deviation from standard approach). Having a plan is one thing, but realising that the circumstances require you to deviate is another. That and the Leinster attack is way off what it was in the last few years.
If Bleyendaal's attack can bed in quickly and RG and Jordie for into the team, then it's hard to look past Leinster finally getting it done next year, but the mental side will be a big one to overcome.
@@richard-king- that's exactly what happened they kept going to the corner don't get me wrong if you're going to the corner every now and then that's good but Leinster kept getting held up on the line out attacking maul every time. It was so frustrating watching them doing the same thing over and over again and getting nowhere with it. There was a serious lack of leadership you have to realise you're in a final kick your points. If anything the Northampton semi-final should have driven home that point loud and clear.
@@ciaranbrkit's remarkable that none of the Leinster players said something like " this is not working guys, let's try some other move "
Top 14 is the best champ. Best players
Bought from all over the world so NOT a true domestic competition, nor should it be a reflection of any national pride, as most SANZAR teams players are usually from their respective countries
@@atholseptember8937 It is a domestic competition. In Europe being close together means the best players from other nations in Europe can easily travel to France or move their families there and still be an hours flight from home by air.
All top end leagues in the world have many foreign players EPL, La Liga MLB, NBA, rugby needs to do the same if its truly to grow. If Kiwi and Aussie internationals weren't forced to stay at home for caps they would soon be in France or England as well.
This is the last amateur bastion of rugby when the RFU of any nation forces players to stay at home. Its costing England, will eventually upend Ireland as well. Players should be allowed to and decide to do whats best for their own situation without penalty of being denied playing for their country.
@@saints16o5o87 sure, that explains why Fijians, Samoans and other Southern hemisphere players litter the top european clubs. If you didn't have the lure of the Euro, and had to field only locally based players, the standard would drop significantly
@@atholseptember8937 it's same in Australia and new Zealand lots of Pacific islanders even getting caps just like Irish kiwis or Scottish springboks. Money talks.
Times well past restrictions to be ended. Retirement jaunts to Japan aren't enough reward for the best players they should be allowed to play for what they're worth. Until then rugby will struggle to command the TV money it needs. A European league is a certainty at some point. Southern hemisphere players deserve the income the European best command, £1m+ gbp per year.
@saints16o5o87 yes, but even those Pacific Islanders are geographically closer to their homes, not having to travel nearly around the world to play AND be exploited and poached at international levels
Im currently in Australia and following super rugby after previously living in Europe watching rugby there. It’s no even comparable. European rugby is 3/4 levels above
JGP is a great 9 but AD changes a game by himself. No one does this today but him.
Of course they could. I’d love to see it.
Toulouse is the only city in Europe were Rugby is waaaaaay more popular than football. This tells you a lot about the passion and the healthy environment SH players experience l in when they go work there.
And our rugbymen are our heroes.. ❤
Did the latest Breakdown episode discuss or even mention this game?
The breakdown is a terrible show
No it's the competition they don't want the customers to know they are selling 💩
They didn't talked about it... they only put a little video sample in the last seconds of their poor TV show
just keep in mind how much a EU based player who plays in 6 nations + champs cup + domestic final plays compared to a super rugby player on Avg NZ team like 40+ games, this is why france didnt rest enough players in a wc year, and dont tour their best south, unless nz or SA potentially!
so what you need for a world cup club final is a time of yeah where both teams ar achiing for their best, whioch is not compabitble even assuming they have the same players available!
Nz fan engagement = 3 punters at the airport with their cowbells
SA = two monkeys flapping about a fire. NH = 4 drunks speaking like 3heads. Good one kid, next.
Leinsters attack went to mush after neinbars arrival...the Leinster of last year would have beaten Toulouse off the park and did...but of course Dupont is a freak in a good way.
Probably not having the whole season to blend Nienabar's defence with the attack has been the issue. Coming in after the world cup and then the A team gone from camp for the 6 Nations it must have been a hard task to get them all back on the same new page.
Takes time, they’ve done well to get to the final really.. after sexton retiring and Lancaster moving on..
Yup blame the RWC winning RSA coach that had snip of time to integrate, for your team 'only' making the final against an institution with worlds best playmaker. utter chump bait clownery.
I have a dream...
Would be interesting to see the top 4 of each world rugby league play a straight forward knockout format till there's a winner. I know it's fanciful thinking due to congested fixture lists. But I would imagine the two European cup finalists automatically qualify and that allows the 5th ranked team in that respective league to qualify. Also applicable for English teams. So for example the 5th teams placed in the URC and Top 14 as Leinster and Toulouse will automatically qualify being European Cup finalists. If Sarries played then the 5th English Premier gets a look in. Then the top four from the URC, 4 from the French Top 14, 4 from the English premiership and 4 from SuperRugby then maybe invite the winners of the Japanese league and the best South American club. This way each top tier nation will be represented and will create renewed interest among club supporters. Each play home and away like the soccer European cup with away points counting more. Each winner on to the next round and a home and away final winner takes all so no one can complain about home advantage. Maximum 8 games. Play it in the year between RWC's and knock international games on the head for those two months. We already do it for the RWC so it can be done. Start all games on the same weekend and complete the competition in 6-8 weeks. None of these long drawn out fixture lists that take months and months to complete where fans lose track and interest as it just takes too long. Best total score between the 2 games determines the winner. Imagine your club playing the second final at home knowing that they only need to beat their opponents by a certain margin to be world club champions but knowing that the opposition points are worth more due them playing away from home. Players play for the club that employs them. There are some serious international World Cup winners plying their trade in the Japanese league. I wouldn't want to play a Japanese team with Ardie Savea, PSDT, Kwagga Smith, Damian Dallende, Jesse Kriel, Beauden Barret, Aaron Smith, Richie Mounga, Brodie Retallick lurking around. I'd definitely watch these games as it would give a strong indication of which league has the most powerful teams and the different styles of play. Imagine your team being known as World Club champions... How cool would that be. It would also maybe encourage teams to play outside their normal strategies due to away points counting more. Something like the home teams converted try counting the standard 7 points but for the away team it counts 10. This will bring in new tactics and ways of playing. The teams playing the second fixtures know away points count more so they'll go gang busters for the win...I can hear Dr Rassie's brain whirring away already 😁. Each group will only have teams from other countries in it. For example you can't start with a group having Toulouse and La Rochelle in it. But it's also possible that 2 teams from the same country could reach the finals. So a group would have the no 1 ranked team from their league for eg Leinster then nr 2 from another League (Exeter Chiefs for eg) then 3rd placed team in SuperRugby (possibly The Tahs or the Highlanders) and the 4th placed team in the Top 14 (Castres or Bordeaux). Imagine the endless possibilities in match ups. Clubs will be strongly incentivised to retain players and to grow strong youth academies.
Imagine a Toulouse vs Auckland Blues home and away finals played on back to back weekends and there's only a 5 point difference between the teams....or Stormers vs Harlequins at Newlands and Twickenham respectively or Leinster vs the Canes, Munster vs Fijian Drua, Los Pumas vs Wild Knights in Tokyo and Buenos Aires one weekend after another. One can only dream... Thoughts?
Toulouse’s game plan works because it’s backed up with a huge, powerful pack of forwards. South Africa have won two world cups with a monster pack.
Not so powerful as Leinster got several penalties
That's the most unconvincing "yeah" I've heard in some time.
Never ceases to amaze me how ignorant NZ pundits are of passion and support for club Rugby in France or indeed Ireland, 70,000 travelling Munster fans vs Biarritz in Cardiff 50,000 Leinster in London, 150,000 for Toulouse home coming 40,000 for La Rochelle
80,000 / 90,000 for finals in Top 14, Champions Cup final semi final
25,000 at 2023 super rugby final 🤔
We’ll never know. The integration of the South african teams in the European Cup is not a full success, due to the distance between the countries, and the difference of what is at stake (huge stake for European clubs, not so much yet for the South Africans). But frankly, Toulouse and Leinster, are at least, as strong as their respective national team, and are strongly dominating the club scenes of a wide competitive sphere which is unmatched in the world. As for Toulouse, if you dont believe it is the best club team in the world, the history, passion and success of this club is bluffing.
distance is not the problem but rather the time zones which compared to the old super rugby comp was ridiculous.......atleast traversing from SA to Europe is simpler where time is concerned
@@plutoniumnitrate1201exactly, the time zones for SA teams are far friendlier than what they were in Super Rugby....hard to compare.
European competitions are like super rugby in that they are dominated by only a few teams and the rest struggle so across the board the competitivness is probably quite similar.
As for which is better we will never really know but a reserve grade crusaders team travelled to europe before the season started and gave the reigning urc champs(also a reserves team) a good run for their money.
Best footy show on earth. Ka pai from Sydney 🇳🇿💪🏾
Mate, I really respect your opinion, but do you really think that a NZ Super Rugby franchise, with a 1/4 to 1/3 of All Blacks in their starting linup, would beat a team composed of over 1/2 the France starting XV or 2/3 or Ireland's? They would compete in attack, but I would give a serious advantage to those two NH teams in terms of defense and set pieces. Which is generally where games are won.
Saffa teams are competitive in Europe yet won only 4 titles in 25 years of Super Rugby therefore logically yes the NZ teams would also be competitive.
@@JTAIT-b7g I think the Saffas brand of rugby would be more efficient against top NH teams than that of the NZ teams. Also, Saffas team have always been at a massive disadvantage in Super Rugby owing to their travelling schedule.
@@johnnyguitar6697 By "brand" I guess you mean slowing the game down? You have no evidence to support your claim whereas the South African SR sides inability to compete with NZ SR sides is in direct contradiction with your "theory" (all travel excuses aside of course)
@@JTAIT-b7g They were travelling on a plane 20+ hours twice the amount of time that NZ or Oz provinces did. So obviously, they would lose an edge physically. On a level playing field, they would have have had a far better success rate. That, and the fact that SA has traditionally lost a lot more players going to play for European clubs than NZ did, owing to the NZ selection policy. So SA provinces were weakened accordingly.
@@johnnyguitar6697 Thats all fine & dandy mate but you still have no evidence to support your claim that NZ teams could not compete in Europe. I guess its a lot easier to underestimate NZ teams now that you dont actually have to play against them.
Toulouse & Leinster would definitely dominate. La Rochelle, Munster, Northampton, Harlequins, Saracens, Glasgow, Ulster, Bordeaux would do well. Benetton, Leicester, Bath, Edinburgh, Toulon would be competitive but the New Zealand teams would be too much for them.
The South African teams only had one team into the last 8 of the champions cup, the Bulls, and they got hammered by 30+ points in the quarter finals. They were also in Super rugby for 20+ years and only won one or two trophies and that was over 16 years ago. Their results in both competitions including the URC hasn’t exactly been good but their success has rather been non existent in fact so it’s difficult to judge how they would do.
We won 4 titles. Transvaal and bulls x3 and played in 11 finals. We also had to travel west to East and New Zealand and Australia is hardly any travel.
If im being honest all 7 Super Rugby teams below the Reds would be an absolute meme in the champions cup and even then i think the Blues are the only team that could realistically compete with Europe's big boy teams.
As a Munster fan, Leinster were out of their comfort zone [Dublin] and they couldn't handle it again. Typical south Africa style rugby and it failed. I am surprised after some many times trying to go for the line out and failing they didn't think. we need to change tactics and take out points. As one player controlled the whole game for 80 mins, and wasn't stopped or slow down. what a player Dupont is and it was great to see him turning on the style in the final. Leinster are going for four in a row next year. I feel sorry for Leinster losing three finals in a row.
Nienaber definitely doesn't determine Leinster's gameplay. He is not the Head Coach just an assistant
Yup okay dude RWC winning RSA coach broke Leinster in his first year with little time. Muddle on.
I didn't explain myself properly, Leinster cannot handle or adapt to SA style rugby. This style has always suited Munster. And this is why I was surprised that it wasn't noticed quickly. But I don't care I am Munster supporter.
SA here. On a firm fast track the Super Rugby teams will have an advantage.
BS
Can’t wait to see the World clubs comp.
Won't happen
Dupont GOAT
No player can be called that. Different eras no 9s equally good. In fact Aaron Smith very very good in the modern era. Can mention many such as Nick Farr Jones, V d Westhuizen -- Gareth Edwards the best. Players too easily called GOAT in modern times. Media pushes it
I think the Crusaders under Razor could've competed well, but watching Super Rugby this year I don't think they're competing with the cream of the european crop. Also Munster beat the Saders in preseason nuff said ;)
Crusaders are not a provincial team. They wouldn't take part
wot ? You can't compare JGP and Dupont. I mean JPG is a great champion but Dupont is an on another level. and by the way Toulouse is known to be THE attacking team in Europe who can put try out of nowwhere with a high amount of tries in almost each match. And in addition you don't need to be WC winners to be considered to be with the greatest in history, Lomu don't win a WC for example. First and last time i see this channel.
Nobody cares about Super Rugby anymore. Empty stadiums and record low viewership tells you everything you need to know. It’s dead.
"record low viewership" was pulled out of your ass, not hard to spend a few minutes researching
Ive noticed no-one is bothering to turn up to watch second string Euro club sides in South Africa either..guess we can put the URC in a hole right next to Super Rugby.
@@JTAIT-b7g In France a lot of people watch it on TV but its not free channels, or you need iptv or watch replay on free streaming sites like me, so it didnt count but stil ppl are watching. In SA its empty stadium thats for sure
Yeah that’s fan engagement! Clearly nothing wrong with the game in the northern hemisphere and South Africa. Why World Rugby had to make “fan focused” law changes is beyond me!
In a once off game, sure level is similar between the very best of super rugby and top end champions cup. But in europe there is a full league season plus cup competition. Super rugby teams just dont have the squad depth for marathon seasons like that. They just don't.
As an Irish man, i think he's correct. A real world club competition, and not just friendlies or tours at the end of a season, would be very competitive
You guys are dreaming. No one in Europe and South Africa even cares anymore about what’s going on in super rugby. It’s just a glorified New Zealand domestic comp
Our top leagues are dog eat dog all year in front of sell-out stadia and A LOT of ancestral rivalries (i.e you cannot play badly let alone lose without enormous constant local pressure to remind you not to ever do it again). That prepares teams for the highest level.
😅😅😅
prepares most players to lose in the 1/4 ‘s of the world cup every four years
And that is why you have won so many world cups.
@@ifgfqageneration6939 Completely irrelevant. We're not even talking about a nationality of players here but about club rugby. Top 14 and Pro D2 are some of the most competitive club rugby competitions. That's a fact. And that's why their representants have won the latest 4 top European titles and the record winning club hails from it. Those are other facts.
@@AuxaneST European titles mean less than jack down south mate.
1.Antoine Du Pont.
2. Faf de klerk
3. JGP
1,3,2
@@ashleysoudah faf has bifg match temperment. i want you to watch rwx2023, quartyer final against france, faf turned over the ball to win the game, semi final, faf again for the turnover to win the game, final he played 80mins was great. he kicks better than JGP, at posts and in general play, more mongrel and explosive than jgp. jgp has a crisper pass and thats about it. just an opinion though, thoughts?
faf outplayed Antoine in the Quarter final as well, nobdoy talks on that though because its Antoine
@RUGGARUGBY JGP glides over the turf, quicker at reaching rucks and getting the ball away, scores many more (support) tries than faf, is much more of a threat around the ruck (sniping runs/ going down blindside), almost always makes right decision, low error count, great sweeper in behind and cover tackler (as seen in final), all round very intelligent player. if u want a more boring box kicking scrum half then that's faf but I'd have JGP every time.
@@ashleysoudah won him 2 world cups. Hasnt won jgp a thing in 3 years.
The saffas leaving super rugby could have a longer detrimental impact to NZ rugby. Steel sharpens steel
SA teams like their national team are garbage, play like poor NH teams. Barnes is gone now, it will shine bright.
I always hear how NZ teams will go backwards not playing SA teams that they regularly beat but never how SA might go backwards not playing NZ teams that regularly beat them.
@@JTAIT-b7gbecause the SA teams have replaced NZ teams with competitive NH teams, whereas Super Rugby has declined. The addition of the Fijians and Moana Pacifika could be positive though.
@@KiwiPepega Same thing the Irish said after the QF defeat with Barnes as ref. They said he robbed them and that they should have won that game by 10points easily.
So without Barnes you don't make the final and with him you lose the final.
@@JTAIT-b7g Your rugby has gone backwards since 2020. Lost to France twice, beaten by the Irish at home 2-1. Argentina beat you at home. The Boks gave you your biggest loss ever 35-7. These are things that did not happen before. So maybe stop hearing and start listening.
Saying that New era for you let's see.
From another Saffa, the all conquering Crusaders teams from yesteryear (when the SA teams were still in Super Rugby) would have one the Champions Cup many many times I believe. Now? Genuinely not sure.
Exactly, in the past (let's say pre 2015) SR was definitely on top. But since 2018 or 2019, champions cup/top14 etc is on top. Alot of that is down to them buying top Southern Hemisphere talent, but they're still better teams with deeper squads
@@ryanberelowitz7464 I'm not sure Super Rugby was always on top even pre-2015. Think of the great Toulon team of 2013-15, Leinster of 2009-2012, Toulouse and Leicester of the 2000s, etc.
Leinster is the Irish team which went to NZ and beat the best players in super rugby combined
@decekfrokfr3mdx maybe the odd team. But still think it's fair to say that overall SR was top in the past, and now CC is top
@@decekfrokfr3mdxnah genuinely pre 2015 would probably be a clean sweep nowerdays quite the opposite
The challenge the EU comp is not one-off matches in the EU comps. You also need to be able to balance your squad and be able to rest players to be competative in the local leagues too.
reminds you of Ireland being bold and kicking for the corner......I cant help but notice that the Irish are trying to run everything just so they dont look boring
No, the lead SR teams couldn't compete. Some swift speed and finessing but lack robustness, size, physicality, the games of Europe and SA now have. Oli Jager said it upon moving to Munster: he wasn't prepared for the return to the physicality back home, which wasn't present in NZ.
Just like the NZ players couldn't compete with the "physicality" of the Irish at the RWC huh? How did Irish rugby fans get such big heads having achieved nothing at the highest level? Without the NZers in your teams you would basically be Wales.
Super rugby is far from the level of champions cup. This guy doesn’t know a single thing about Toulouse and the place of rugby in the south west of France…
Leinster fan here - still think super rugby is a ways better than any European competition - faster, more fluid, more exciting broken play. Let’s say Leinster on a good day is the closest up north - take out the southern hemisphere backs and it’s a fair bit of a weaker team. Would be fascinating to see the best of the north v the best of the south … it would be close, but super rugby lot more fun to watch
I think the world club game is a great idea but should only happen every 4 years. If it happens regularly it will be to the detriment of the teams that are not in it. I would love to see it though. I think it would be very close in most matches. Very hard to call…..imagine Hurricanes v Munster, Crusaders v Leinster /Toulouse. Northampton were amazing this year. The fact that the English Premiership and French Top 14 are so competitive is also a tough call for the world club game (as in there could be a big rotation of French and English teams). Rarely do a French/English Team dominate their domestic leagues for more than a couple of seasons before someone breaks the cycle and a new Top dog rolls along. I think it’s a brilliant idea to develop the Fijian club sides and I think NH fans are CRAZY if they write off NZ. Can’t wait to see what Razor does with you guys. SA are actually benefitting the most from all this mixing up. All their Champions Cup and URC club experience and then playing NZ twice a year in the national Team. I think SA will really be the team to beat over the next decade (‘unless of course Razor does to NZ what he did to the Crusaders). Future is looking really competitive for the game and I am going to watch with interest… Leinster and Ireland supporter
As a Leinster fan our way of playing has always been more like a Super Rugby / New Zealand side, that's our tradition. While it's great having Nienaber as part of the coaching leadership, we don't produce Springbok-size players in our forwards to play to that style. Interesting to see how he blends his defence with our natural attacking game.
Super rugby is a tier 2 competition you have
Zero chance
Ah yes, weird how a tier 2 comp can produce so many World Cup winning players. How strange.
The worst ever crusaders team in their history of super rugby. Came and played munster in their backyard, was also their first preseason game without alot of their best players and. Munster just beat them by 2 points. But i will say over last couple of years. It has become the closest it has ever been. That's because they are stacked with southern hemisphere players and coaching staff.
Only 2 decent clubs in Europe, European rugby big on talk short on delivery..ask the Saffas how they got on in SR.
@@JTAIT-b7gonly 2 decent sides look like let's not push i don't the best nz team has a chance against full strength leinster or toulouse if you talk about sa teams bulls lost to northampton and leinster by 40 points coming from sa munster played their 2nd team and are inconsistent they were poor early in the season also nz only have 3 good sides all aussie sides are weak highlanders and crusaders are trash atm i don't think any irish or sa side losing to highlanders or crusaders either highly unlikely
@@subbie5498 yet the 3 southern hemisphere national teams have bee beating the north with ease for decades. All made up of super rugby teams. The north try big it up all the time but with nothing to back it up. Just 1 world cup in 9 attempts says it all.
But there are already Super Rugby teams in the Champions Cup. 😂
Crusaders would have beaten every European club team for the last 7 years in a row.
Détrompez-vous ! Les équipes européennes auraient gagné en jouant sur une jambe et une main dans le dos. 😊
La Rochelle is still the best. They were put at an incredible disadvantage in their play-off match having to travel to South Africa and back and then to Ireland in their play-off match They were exhausted and still only narrowly lost.
La Rochelle are very good, really big pack but I think the best team won this year. Toulouse are an absolute force.
I disagree, even if it's true that having to travel doesn't help anything, this year La Rochelle did not play at its best level at all. Just look at their matches in the top 14, the team is reaching the end of the cycle, it is no longer advancing as much, is no longer able to play its combinations cleanly and the best players look mentally worn out. Some media also speak of internal tensions regarding O'gara's game plan.
if you look at the teams who have domninated champs cups final win/lose each have a 3-5 year window then drop off, la rochelle have thier time now where new blood is coming through and the old dropping out (since 2019 challenge cup final) they have sites for domestic i believe! next year would be the last for their older players!
La Rochelle are having a mediocre season in the Top 14 and got absolutely whipped by Leinster, travel distance is not an excuse for a loss by such a margin. Definitely not still the best.
Australian super sides would get smashed by all of the top Champions Cup sides!
JGP is the best 9 in the world. Du Pont is the best player in the world.
And no spray here - The top of Super Rugby is comparable to the top of URC & Pro 14.
💯 agree 2 of the very best in the World right now. Only hairs split them.
Leinster buy a fair few players also: also have superb schools rugby. If they don’t with Syman and Barrett next year, could be a barren spell
Ces mecs confondent tout ........incompetence ou partialite
Toulouse forme des centaines de joueurs .......
Dupont as best ever? Dreaming. Highlights of him it is hard to see any opposition knowing how to tackle. Great player, but long long long from best or best ever
The European semi finalist against the Super rugby semi finalist. Open draw, straight knock out.
Taking points off penalties heap pressure on the defending team, so you punish penalties, take points and then the opportunities increase as defenders second guess themselves, free up the ball. Basic.
Apparently Du Pont is an alien 👽?
They would get destroyed .
Super Rugbys a level down forsure
Dupont can play in back row centre outhalf wings or back am be great what other player could do that come on
The fact that they say JGB, and even Dupont is amateurish
Leinster kicked 10m short on every corner kick. Then failed to score by 5m!!!
Respect and revenge 2025
Super rugby teams would get slapped.
Nah if the Saffa teams can compete yet only won 4 titles in 25 years of Super Rugby then Euro bore-fest rugby would be easy money for any NZ side.
Who played in the RWC final? All the money all the big name players all the best facilities but nothing to show.
Yawn
@@fergalbannon4614 yes Yawn all you want but just know the last time a Northern hemisphere team won the RWC was 2003 since then it's just been the AB's and the Boks. So yes Yawn
Saying they will win and saying they will have a good go at them is 2 different things. The amount of respect for the 2 top teams is lacking. 🤔
The SR teams are week. Crusaders before RWC yes. Blues are blunt and overcoached. Canes are great but still getting there. Chiefs have a great attack but soft moments.
Dupont biggest flaw is costly mistakes in big games. High risk moves which backfire. He made a few in the WC and a few in this game too.
the irish trail of tears France > ireland > england next year wales!
Europeans are hilarious lmao “sUpEr rUgBy tEaMs wOuLDnT be aBLe To cOmPeTe” what a weird statement considering considering pretty much every World Cup winning player has come through that comp lmao the confidence of the Europeans is admirable though I must say.
Clearly the South Hemisphere championships are tailored for their own National Teams performance during the World Cup.
In France the clubs have higher relevance and are not working for the national team’s interests. In fact they often are in conflict and clubs have a lot of bargaining power.
Different structures lead to different results on World stage in particular. No disrespect to South Africa but it is not comparable.
What's hilarious is your claiming 'Europeans ' are saying that Super Rugby Teams couldn't compete in European Champions Cup when no Europeans were on the show and no one said that.
Why bother posting if you haven't bothered to listen to the content ?
So if i follow your logic SA should win Europeans championship, but where they are ??
Roll on the opportunity to once again stuff it to the kiwis. Would be a wonderful spectacle. !!
In a one off match, the top Super Rugby sides will definitely beat any of the top European sides 9 times out of 10. But, over the course of a season playing 24 to 28 matches, no Super Rugby side will have the depth in their squad to keep up with the demands of European rugby. That's the difference. Super Rugby sides plays 14 matches a season, rotating their squads and resting their top players only two or three times. In Europe, you have to rotate regularly to manage the demand on players and you lose players to international duty and injury.
9 out of 10 definitely not the bottom 2 nz sides are trash the best I'd give the top nz sides is 4-5 out of 10
Guys - if defence wins championships, then the best NH club teams beat the best Super Rugby franchises every time. Sorry, the club game is just played so differently in both places. The ABs win tests matches - tho they’re not best in the world currently - but when the best players in NZ are spread between 5 franchises, those franchises playing the AB way are less dominant than the ABs, and Toulouse and Leinster are basically France and Ireland. I’m not saying the NH is better than the SH, but Toulouse would beat the Chiefs or Blues.
Kiwis have fomo!
There's people on the latest Breakdown episode complaining about the lack of mention of the European tournament so..
Just look at the all blacks who still set the standard. Yea of course they would compete
No chance Super Rugby teams challenge in the Champions Cup. Absolutely no chance.
European teams have always over-rated themselves, never seem to learn. If the Saffas teams are competitive yet won only 4 titles in 25 years of Super Rugby then the NZ teams would be even more competitive.
NH fans always overestimate themselves, funny shit.
There's 68 million French; their Country can't be that big in area
In France rugby is a regional sport, about 1/3 of the country plays and go to watch matches, for the other 2/3 it is a TV sport. For numbers of players, including children, it is ranked 10th.
In France Rugby is mainly practiced in the south-west regions 80% of the other territories do not care about rugby
@@pgdsfcv5552 But the rest of France is now awakening...
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 Rugby is the second most popular team sport in France overall, by fans and viewership. Sure its base is the South, but it is a major sport in the country overall.
@@pgdsfcv5552 it is a little more subtle... History shows that in France Rugby started in Normandy , Paris and Bordeaux (from whrre it spreaded in the southwest) where there were UK people, students and saillors.. Beside of some big cities, it was mostly played in small cities and villages.
Today most of the Top 14 sides are in Paris area (2 clubs) and some of the southern largest cities (but Marseille and Nice arriving in Pro D2 next season). Pro D2 is a little different and more spread out.
None of ye would come near finsl of Europe
Short answer... dismally.
super rugby is a farmers league
Hell no have you watched the Currie Cup? Now THAT is a farmers league.
@@JTAIT-b7g true both are farmers league in my opinion, difference one have "Premier players" super rugby and the other is "development players" Currie Cup
you have to note a fair bulk of rugby union players come from leaked South African talent
@@Sbu_Phakathwayo NZ has 55 million less people than SA yet supplies more rugby players internationally (28 playing for other countries at the last RWC. Interestingly SA teams were only able to win the Super Rugby "farmers league" 4 times in 25 years so have now relocated to Europe where they have been equally unsuccessful..my guess is that SA teams will eventually end up in the J-League where they will have a better chance of winning,
Superrugby team,s would get a mighty beat down.northern hemisphere on way higher level.?.kiwi,s on rapid demise .Northern hemisphere continues on rapid rise..devastating times ahead for poor kiwi,s fact😂😂😂😂😂
Oh dear….keep taking the pills mate
@@IverKnackerovye aotearoa boy,s will need pills very soon?😂😂😂
@@IverKnackerov ye kiwi rugby is awful. Thank,s mate only way to watch it is with a few pills.?😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@michaelmoynihan9591I swear you are just getting dumber Mike..can you please learn to write a coherent sentence you are just constantly embarrassing yourself and Irish people in general.
Honestly the defense is so poor in super rugby when you compare it to european teams . I do not see any super rugby teams beat the best european teams
Super rugby teams wouldn’t be able to last 1 season in the northern hemisphere
Have you not noticed all the Super Rugby players propping up the European teams? Also SA, Aus and NZ won every RWC apart one over 20 years ago.
There are only 2 decent teams in Europe the rest are bunnies, even the Saffa sides can cope with it..easy money for any NZ side.
This Dupont argument reminds me of the Augustine pisot debate.... Dupont played in the aaron and faf era.....a far 3rd maybe ....
Toulouse does not put more money into players, their capital expenditure goes in large majority into infrastructure and supporting staff. They have a restaurant that generates profits with a proper Chef and which is accessible to supporters with special events with players. They have incredible indoor and outdoor training facilities. Their subscription system rewards supporters.
Stade Toulousain has the largest budget by far but its salary cap is far lower that any club of the Premiership. Bristol, Saracens, Leicester, Bath, Exeter, Sale and before that Wasps all spend more on salaries than Toulouse.
Picture this, after Antoine Dupont and his teammates won the 6 Nations, the Top 14 Brennus Shield and the European Champions Cup, Dupont's salary went from EUR600,000/year to EUR800,000/year. Meanwhile Owen Farrell, Mario Itoje, Russell Finn, Cheslin Kolbe, Siya Kolisi, Faf de Klerk, Dan Biggar were all between EUR800,000 and EUR900,000+ /year during that same period where Dupont won everything in the Northern Hemisphere. That's Toulouse for you, they are not going to break the bank for anyone. They are going to keep you grounded and they are not going to endanger the club with poor financial handling. Kudos to their administrators, they know their business no doubt (EADS Airbus and such).
Is Mario Itoje that much better than Thibaut Flament that he is worth twice as much? I don't think so, and yet. That's Stade Toulousain for you, they have built such a winning machine and such a strong Club Culture that NO ONE is bigger than the club. They will sack anyone who gets too hungry, look at Cheslin Kolbe. "I am worth more" No you are not, you're in Toulouse, you think you are bigger than the Club, then you don't belong, here is the door. They did not retain Cheslin Kolbe, the guy was asking for more than he was worth. It would have been unfair to better players who have been giving blood and sweat to their colours. Kolbe moved on to RC Toulon and for the moment he has not won much, maybe a Challenge Cup, that's the European Baby Cup. Nowhere near to win the Top 14, nowhere near to win the European Champions Cup. Players who make career in Toulouse are special because they understand how unique this club is. They understand their name no matter how famous they will become, will never supersede the aura of this club. 6 stars on the jersey and considering how Toulouse play right now, I would not be surprised if the 7th was coming this year.
Stade Toulousain have had a slump maybe 10 years ago, it was at the time where they were trying to compete with Toulon on the same ground and it never worked out for Toulouse. Toulouse is not a club for big names who appear everywhere in the rugby media, it is a club for work horse who know their place. When they recruited Kolbe, he was unknown and rejected by SA rugby because too small. He became big in Toulouse, the South African franchises would not even consider him before that. Had Cheslin Kolbe been a big name in South Africa, he would have never been recruited by Toulouse in the first place. Dan Carter? Not interested. Siya Kolisi? Not interested. These are not the players Toulouse target. In fact, among their U20, they have hopeful players from the USA and Spain Team, they are not going for the latest and shiniest of the Southern Hemisphere and there is another reason for this: Southern Hemipshere players who are capable of adapting to a long grueling Top 14 season are not many. Super Rugby is a cocoon, French Rugby is not cocooning players. It is not a comfortable bubble wrap. The pressure to perform is real and constant.
SuperRugby not physical enough to compete with NH clubs..
This guy talks rubbish, absolute nonsense.
What a clueless comment. New Zealand merged all their NPC teams into artifical franchises for Super Rugby
In the Champions Cup they'd have to play as actual provincial teams and not fake franchises
The same applies for the South African sides and the European clubs are full of foreign mercenaries anyway..can you possibly be this clueless?
The Crusaders with McCaw, Carter and Read would have won the Champions Cup easily.
No tactics and conditioning has improved. They are all too small
Not so sure....weak scrums.
But the bulls beat them in 2007 2009 and 2010 semi finals I think the bulls team of those years were the best because in those mentioned years they took the super cups as well with stars like Victor matfield bakkies Botha Fourier du preez who by the way was ranked as the best player on the planet danie rossouw morne steyn Pierre spies all formidable players and by the way the great mcwaw Carter and read played in those games against the bulls but couldn't beat them therfore I think the bulls would have been a tough side to beat not many would have beat them they took the first super cup against the sharks in 2007 then beat the chiefs of new Zealand in 2009 and beat the stormers in 2010
@@AttackTheGasStation1 Weak scrums?? Newbie alert.
They'd get their arses handed to them -- SR, maybe 15 years ago could compete. Today, it's an utter shite show full of crap teams -- that is SH rugby for the past decade-plus
not 15 years euro teams were trash till 2016
And yet the NH teams still cant compete on the big stage. NH fans will seemingly never learn not to overrate themselves & underestimate their opponents. Without SH mercenaries & coaching most of the NH teams would basically be Wales.
stop with the Aotearoa bullshit
100% agree its rooted in marxist/far leftist propaganda. Those are the people pushing it and its no coincidence Ross Karl hosts this show the MSM patsy and his wife Janika ter Ellen (both propagandists) who push all the lefty/globalist bulldust onto the NZ public like the Crusaders failed name change when he worked for tv3 but he did get them to wrongly change the insignia.
Yep it's NZ. Noone calls it aoteroa, not even most maori, all 10k of them
Its aotearoa 😂😂😂 fact😂😂😂
@@michaelmoynihan9591 iTs AoTeArOa 🤡🤡🤡 fAcT 🤡🤡🤡 (I guarantee mike is riddled with herpies).😫
Lol. I thought the same when the thumbnail popped up
The answer we have it now, just take a look at the South African Super Rugby franchises, they are getting smashed to smithereens in the Champions Cup. The Champions Cup is way more competitive than Super Rugby.
I have always said Super Rugby is a terrible format, it brings only excitement to a crowd used to be handed over the trophy because you don't have to earn the right to be there in the first place. What the Southern Hemisphere needed was to reinforce their domestic league then promote the top 5 teams of the NPC, Currie Cup and Australian League to an Intercontinental Cup. It would have been way more interesting and above all it would have ensured the grass roots has equal and fair access to a top competition. If Taranaki wins the NPC then they have earned the right to play a top competition and gets some money for their work. That's what a competitive environment does, that's how you get your local grassroot supporters behind their club. If you give them nothing, why would they care? Why would a supporter living in New Plymouth support a Wellington based Hurricanes?
You don't need 80,000 seaters to make a great competition, a 5,000 filled stadium is better than an 80,000 empty stadium.
Super Rugby is bogus because none of these franchises ever had to qualify for it, it is always the same, you can end the season at the bottom of the table and have not a worry in the World. That's not sport, that's a simulation of sport. Any sport League without promotion and relegation path is a joke. It is unsportsmanlike. To know if your sport and club is solid, you have to go through relegation and see if your supporters are still there. That's how you know you have a successful model.
What the Kiwis do very often and I see it at business level too, not just rugby: they dream big straight off the box like the NZRU dreams about the USA but their domestic market is in shatters. You have to solidify your grassroot and make it competitive before you think of exporting yourself and Super Rugby shows that, it is not viable. It is losing money and the ONLY WAY the Southern Hemisphere Rugby Unions make money is every 4 years at the WORLD CUP. Super Rugby makes no money.
The NZRU just announced a NZD9,000,000 Loss. Their income NZD268,000,000 against a NZD277,000,000 capital expenditure. Rugby Australia also posted a AUD9,200,000 Loss with a negative equity of AUD13,000,000. The SARU in spite of joining the European Champions Cup still registered a marginal SAR6,800,000 Loss so that's roughly a NZD660,000 Loss which is better than when they were playing in Super Rugby. The Southern Hemisphere has no clue how to emulate rugby union. Their perpetual answer is: let's change the rule, let's make it more like rugby league. Yeah let's make rugby more like soccer, no hands allowed maybe that will work out at the end. Your institutions are plagued with incompetent idiots and sadly, they are also at the helm of World Rugby. It figures.