Putting the helmet on when he made up his mind, as if retreating to the faceless role of just another soldier, to escape culpability is peak visual story telling.
Gigi´s words on her next animatic: "In Monster I'll present a little someone that appeared briefly in my Just a Man animatic last year. This shadow figure in the mirror." "This is how I envision the "Monster", this dark reflection of Odysseus. When I did this part of the animatic I was already planning on bringing this figure back for when the underworld saga come out. YEAH THIS IS A YEAR LONG SET UP THAT I WAS WAITING PATIENTLY TO PAY OFF." She told me some other ideas and boy... I think that´s gonna be her best animatic ever.
Fun fact: Like Athena and her owls, Zues's main animal is the hawk. This is why you hear the hawk screech in The Horse and The Infant. It's too hint at who is speaking without having to say their name directly
Zeus' animal is the eagle! However, that was a hawk cry! Because eagle cries are often swapped with hawk cries in media, much like how lion roars are replaced by tiger roars!
I love the double meaning of "I'm just a man" too! "I'm just a man, I can't defy gods. I'm just a man, I can't make a decision like this. I'm just a man, forgive me."
I personally also get “I’m just a man, I’m tempted/bound to make ruthless or cruel decisions because of Love/mortal emotion” (a la, if my wife and son are at stake of course I’d ultimately rather kill the kid I don’t know) it’s so cool????
29:30 Also mind you, odysseus stops singing the main chorus when the army begins singing, and instead he repeats "forgive me" over and over as his men ask the question. He does not answer them. He only pleads for forgiveness for what he's about to do.
While I do love that Just a Man animatic so much, there is another that when Odysseus walks towards the edge with the baby it cuts to the mother of the baby screaming after it and crying as she is pulled away by Ody's soldiers
The call n response is really interesting. Chorus: What do you live for? He responds with his wife Chorus: What do you try for? He responds with his son Chorus: What do you wish for? He responds with his desire to head home Chorus: What do you fight for? He has no answer, just tells his men to attack Love that little detail
Fits really well, because Ody didn't wanted to be involved in this war, but had to fight because he promised his allies to protect Helen's marriage if it came to it not expecting for it to actually happen.
also in the horse and the infant, something Zeus says; the gods will let him know. this shows they're just playing with him. either you kill this boy, or no matter what you do, we're going to tell him to kill you
It's not that they're playing with him. Remember that Greek gods arent a monolith and the Trojan war had gods picking sides, so the gods that aren't happy about their side (Troy) losing would be more than happy to get back at Odysseus through informing the boy. And considering Apollo generally favored Troy? The boy finding out was basically a guarantee.
A big part of this is Karma; the pain you sow is brought back upon you threefold. Only the gods can take lives without karmic retribution - humans killing other humans is met with some form of punishment, whether judicial or divine in nature. Additionally, it’s interesting when you consider the perspective of the gods as objectively - though not necessarily morally - correct. I’ll talk more on this when the two of them reach My Goodbye and/or Ruthlessness.
In rewatching this here, I'm realizing that they establish the theme of the musical from the first song. "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose," is the whole story. At every turning point, Odysseus _wants_ to avoid bloodshed, but ultimately his choices can only affect _whose_ blood is shed. Epic is about Odysseus having to learn that you can't save everyone, so you have to prioritize the people you care about.
20:44 his sudden realization that THAT SONG THE SONG HE COVERED! is about KILLING A *CHILD* chefs kiss that was perfect thank you for the perfect line delivery 👏👌❤️
The child being dropped from the palace walls are canon within the story of the Odyssey as well. In most retellings, the mother of the child is even either forced to watch or watched her child get killed by fall damage as she herself is taken away to be a prisoner. Wolfy shows this scene really well in one of her animatics of it.
Becoming a member of the epic fandom is great because its like "Hey Guys! Ive heard a lot of great stuff about this musical and i appreciate you letting me join! ... Why are you all holding knives?"
The eagle is Zeus' sacred animal. So the eagle in those scenes is Zeus appearing in eagle form. Astyanax's death is definitely from the Odyssey, but there are two versions. The most common is that Odysseus throws him from the walls. But there is also a version where Achilles' son, Neoptolemus, or Pyrrhus, dashes his head against a wall. This is the character referred to as "Neo" in The Horse and the Infant.
@@bookswithike3256 Some versions get even worse than that. I know there's one where Neo uses the infant's body to beat Priam (his grandfather) to death.
@@bookswithike3256 Yeah if it worked I cannot imagine it would be anything resembling quick, so I always found that one a little weird. I think it was in one of the retellings that came after Homer so knowing the ways those went it might have been added specifically for the level of sheer brutality it implies. Like a story embellishment to shock the audience and set the retelling apart, though that's just speculation on my end.
Don’t know if you noticed, but the branches of the tree form into a nose and holes for eyes in a helmet. The dark tree literally form into a ‘monster’.
26:00 the thing that at first he was holding baby like it was his own but now he is holding it like an object. That he lost the empathy in order to not feel that guilty.
Another connection about the Helmet-In the original Illiad, which chronicles the tale of the Trojan War, when the father goes to pick up his son (the infant in this song), the child starts crying in his arms because the helmet that Hector is wearing is hiding his face-the toddler cannot tell the difference between his own father and a monster, when the shadow of war is obscuring the face of someone he loves.
"Horse and the Infant" is SUCH a strong start to a musical, it sucks you in IMMEDIATELY, that first minute starting right in the action, the sentimentality of "Penelope~ " + the heartbeat, it's so good
My first thought when I heard the song was that it felt like the climax of a movie, like this was supposed to be the end of all the fighting and struggle 😅 if they only knew!
31:50 in the Odyssey, there is a council vote on whether or not to kill the child. Odysseus voted to kill the child. Either him or Achilles’ son threw the baby over the trojan wall.
There's also a version where Neoptolomus (Achilles' son) beats the old king Priam (who is the infants grandfather) to death with the body of Astynax (the infant), it's not clear whether Astynax is dead or not at the beginning of Neo's actions.
One thing I really love about The Horse and the Infant is that you can hear the steady ticking of a clock in the background which signifies Athena's heavy influence on Odysseus.
A lot of the end of the trojan war, including the horse, isn't actually in the Odyssey. There's a gap between the Illiad and the Odyssey where we have a lot of fragmented narrative elements born out of the same oral storytelling tradition as the Epics, but different versions. As far as I'm aware, Hector's son (Astyanax, btw) dies in every version where he's mentioned. Granted, not all of them have Odysseus as the one killing him (sometimes it's just "the Greeks" with no specific killer mentioned, and some versions have Neoptolomus (son of Achilles, referrered to as Neo in The Horse and the Infant. Achilles was killed by Paris, who was one of Hector's brothers.) being the one to kill him.
So the characters have been confirmed from Jay himself it is Zeus (played by Luke Holt) in the first song and the bird is an Eagle that represents Zeus a lot of the Greek gods have symbols and animals that also represent them so it’s pretty cool Jay has added a bit of it into the songs!
No matter what song, or who is reacting, I will immediately click on anything related to *EPIC* . Thank you for speeding the word, and posting more reactions!
"I can make sure his past is never known" "The Gods will make him know" Well damn, if you were just gonna threaten the guy, ya should have led with that.😂
I'm convinced if EPIC ever gets a stage production "Just a Man" will be the song they sing at the Tonys How could it be anything else?? It's such a beautiful & powerful song
My favorite thing about the particular Fan Animatic of Just a Man that they reacted to is the black tree sprouting from the infant because of what it represents. This child is the root of everything for this story. If Odysseus does not kill the child here, it becomes the root of problems later always resulting in his wife and sons deaths. But, by killing the child here, it becomes the root of problems later on resulting in everyone of Odysseus's crew dying. I adore the symbolism.
Revisiting this video again, it's crazy how I gather you were just searching for someone to share Epic with and it happened to work out with Casper, and now look, you've made your own channel together and both love the musical, and so on! Interesting how things work out sometimes, isn't it? :)
In the original text dropping the baby was the first turning point in which odysseus really started to question and waver in his mentor’s teachings. Greek mythology is also heavily grounded in mortals and in some cases gods being unable to change their fate no matter the struggle. Take the story of oedipus for example. So what Zeus was really saying was do you want to kill an infant or your wife and son. Choose.
There’s a couple variations of the odyssey, one where Odysseus does in fact drop the infant, and other versions where one of his soldiers… I forget the name of said soldier… is the one to kill the infant. So really the infant dies either way but Jorge chose the one that would best tell the story he wanted which was Odysseus himself.
yep! soldier you’re looking for is neoptolemus or pyrrhus (same person, just alt names), son of Achilles (hence “Neo, avenge your father, kill the brothers of Hector”)
That's why I love the animatics, they add meaning and understanding to the lyrics, which are already so perfect on their own. I also struggle with auditory processing and the animatics really help. I hope you will react to the underworld saga with animatics too.
I am now convinced that big man set out the just a man song super like popular then set out the rest cuz. I listened to just a man for like 6 months before i listed to the rest… TO THE POINT that it became my mom’s favorite song….. i ended up needing to tall my mom the real story and it make us both cry
can i just say how much i love the dynamic between you two! I love your excitement in getting to share the musical, as well as your ability to give insight and clarity, meanwhile Casper brings an entirely different perspective. Cant wait to see more of these!!
Yeeees! Drag anyone you can into the hyper fixation. It's for their own good. (That's what I tell myself as I very carefully attempt to get everyone I know hooked on it.)
Coming back to this after the latest saga released and going through this again with you and a first-time reactor…. Sure brings up many new feelings in regards to these songs. xD
Oh, something that another fan noticed, firstly Athena sings “mind” on only one high note (Odysseus sings it “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” using a few notes), after that he and Athena sing it with Athena’s one high note and Odysseus’ few notes, and the second duo has both of them singing “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” showing their connection and harmonization. Athena stays in the few notes at the end. You could also show drifting away in the same way. Another thing, adding to the angel and devil thing, the lower voice represents the harshness of the character, while Polites’ high voice showcases his optimism. It’s also supposed to differentiate them, cause one said ‘go attack them’ and the other says ‘go and be friends with them’. Fun fact: Athena is a maiden goddess. The children of Athena made out of thoughts thingy was made for PJO exclusively. And an owl is Athena’s sacred animal. And look out for ‘the danger theme’. There is a motif in music called the danger theme added by Jay. “When does a man become a monster?” You know when. Annabeth from SoM and Polites parallel but a bit different
I saw the Peter Barber channel reactions advertised to me on UA-cam, then I watched those 4 covering the Troy saga and loved them. They added to my experience. Then another reactor was advertised to me. They both mentioned Fox and Mortious. So now I’ve watched ALL of M’s reactions (had a blast) and I’m finally here in chronological order and WILL be watching all these reactors lol. You’ve all gained another winion subscriber ❤
Just a man was the second song from the epic I heard, I imagined a lullaby style with a child listening to their grandfather's war stories. OH HOW I WISH IT WAS
13:57 Zeus sounds like Tomi at some points not the whole time but they sound similar maybe just the "a vision of" only but still but since he can sound different when singing not speaking one or its the dramatic flare and acting seem similar
Oh man, I love people discovering Epic. It’s an absolute blast to practically see the thoughts unfold. ESPECIALLY when it’s someone who knows music. I’m not very in the know when it comes to music, but I ADORE anything art-nerdy, which is one of the reasons as to why I like Epic so much. And, of course, I like music. And Greek mythology. And history (I’m literally a Humanities student). I’m also a theatre kid, so this literally could not be more up my alley!! But rambling aside. I love to see people begin to unpack everything, and see them get *excited* about it. Because we know, it only gets better (and worse, emotionally) from here
When the tree is growing, just before Odysseus picks the child up, you get a shot of him walking towards the crib. The trees branches from the shape of the child's face after he grows up and comes back for revenge. It's literally showing what he'll grow into
It never even occurred to me that Lil Baby would be the man becoming the monster, Mortius! I could only think 'Prophecies can hit snags due to outside influences, much like Sleeping Beauty sleeping instead of losing her life. If Odysseus tells this child the honest truth of Troy, gives him reasons and begs forgiveness, the boy will be old enough to be merciful or ruthless towards Ithaca. He could love his adoptive family too much to hurt them, whether Ody takes him or sends him to some Winion island.' I know I'm in denial, I just don't want this kid to suffer for his entire life, then bring everyone around him suffering. Polites would be his uncle, come on! He won't be completely heartless! Hatred is something that's taught, not something you're born with. Odysseus and his family would have loved him.
Man. 😅I'm rewatching Casper's reactions to epic stuff in prep for Vengence Saga. Look at how far both of y'all have come. It feels so weird comparing the two. They're like two completely different people.
Also, there other versions where Achilles son killed the baby. There is even a version where Neo (son of Achilles) beats the last king of Troy to death(the baby's grandfather) with infants body.
It's funny because the music stings of of Odysseus walking down the hall to the room (the chorus and synth in the background) follow that same marching motif as Be Prepared from The Lion King
I desperately wish I had friends who would let me have the experience you are having in this video. Ive gotten a couple people to listen to Epic, but I wasn't able to get their reaction! We've obviously chatted about it but it is just so sad to not get that initial reaction.
I know that you already listed to/watched the animatics fior EPIC up until to the circe saga, but I hope you two can react on the whole act 1 together up to the underworld saga. I really love you guy's discussions.
"i really only have one question for you. When does a man become a monster?" i love when people are traumatized by epic and proceed to traumatize others with it. its what i did to my best friend...
I have to say i adore your dynamic while watching this, the context you provide and the fresh reactions he has make for an amazing reaction vid!! Can't wait to see the vid on his channel!!❤❤
Now that it's being brought up by you to someone else & I'm actively thinking about it (the fact that it's a quarter after 2 when I'm watching this video probably doesn't help either,) but the reason why the gods are allowed to "break the rules" is actually because of storytelling themes that are deeply baked into the structure of Greek myth: the gods are able to enforce their will by virtue of divine mandate, or they're allowed to do what they do explicitly *_BECAUSE_* of their status of gods. By contrast, humans must enforce their will not by virtue of who they are, but by wresting the power to do so, typically through collecting a group of similarly aligned people working together with the same goal in mind. Given Greece's history at the time being almost solely being defined by drawing disparate ideologies together to create a potent force, such themes are to be expected; however, it's important to note that these themes are recursive throughout these myths: be it a son looking to overthrow his tyrant father, a group of soldiers led by their king to escape the grasp of the gods they've angered by attacking their seat of worship, or the gods themselves defying and defeating the titans who before the age of the gods acted like oppressors, the themes remain the same no matter what level the scope lays at. Personally, I find it a rather fascinating aspect of Greek mythology that you don't see too much in other mythologies, or if such aspects were there, the original meanings behind the iconography has either been muddied to the point of irrelevance (Roman mythology,) or the original meanings have been lost to time (Aztec mythology)
Just wanted to point out that the nites in zeus' part where he's singing talking about the possibilities with Ody are the same notes as siren Penelope telling Ody he has to go to the lair of Scylla. No clue if that means anything or if its just a cool little thing but yeah.
AAA thank you guys so much for the kind words!! Great video! :D
LOVE YOU 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼
Thank you Gigiiiiiiiii love your animatics🎉❤❤
Gigi! Your monster vid was beautiful!
@@sergiogood3446 fr, chilling
Putting the helmet on when he made up his mind, as if retreating to the faceless role of just another soldier, to escape culpability is peak visual story telling.
ONE OF US ONE OF US
_distant voice: traumatize the lad!_
Confused betrayed sobbing is the correct reaction
(This is the dozenth time I’m watching these animatics)
@@whatismylife6927 Same and I don't think I'll ever get tired of them
Blood for the blood god!
For Penelope!
DO NOT RESIST THE CALL, BECOME A WINION
"I have really only one question for you. Uh, when does a man become a monster?" Oh, now that's a cruel question!
savage XD
This hits so much harder after Underworld 😭
Spoilers for later
At approximately the very last song of act 1
Uhh 20 songs in
And that evil laugh later 😂
"how does killing a child affect this poor man's mental health?" Oh just you wait lol
Should we tell him?
@@dragonstouch1042 nah, he'll find out later.
@@dragonstouch1042 Let's let him and Mortius find out themselves. Underworld Saga fucked me up.
Oh shlt they're screwed
@@disableddragonborn The Odyssey's main message is, "Just when you thinks things couldn't get any worse, it gets worse "
Gigi´s words on her next animatic:
"In Monster I'll present a little someone that appeared briefly in my Just a Man animatic last year. This shadow figure in the mirror."
"This is how I envision the "Monster", this dark reflection of Odysseus. When I did this part of the animatic I was already planning on bringing this figure back for when the underworld saga come out. YEAH THIS IS A YEAR LONG SET UP THAT I WAS WAITING PATIENTLY TO PAY OFF."
She told me some other ideas and boy... I think that´s gonna be her best animatic ever.
Fun fact: Like Athena and her owls, Zues's main animal is the hawk. This is why you hear the hawk screech in The Horse and The Infant. It's too hint at who is speaking without having to say their name directly
Not a hawk, Zeus' sacred animal is the eagle actually!
Zeus' animal is the eagle! However, that was a hawk cry! Because eagle cries are often swapped with hawk cries in media, much like how lion roars are replaced by tiger roars!
@@nightshadeLG63 ooh I know it's a common practice but I hadn't realized it was a hawk in the recording!
Actually Zeus’s sacred animal is an Eagle
Actually it should be an eagle.
Mortius your reaction to watching him react was exactly how we as the viewers felt when you watched it for the first time 😂
Facts. 🤣
I love the double meaning of "I'm just a man" too! "I'm just a man, I can't defy gods. I'm just a man, I can't make a decision like this. I'm just a man, forgive me."
Oooooooooooh
I personally also get “I’m just a man, I’m tempted/bound to make ruthless or cruel decisions because of Love/mortal emotion” (a la, if my wife and son are at stake of course I’d ultimately rather kill the kid I don’t know) it’s so cool????
@@skyeeld6583 Yes, exactly!
29:30
Also mind you, odysseus stops singing the main chorus when the army begins singing, and instead he repeats "forgive me" over and over as his men ask the question.
He does not answer them.
He only pleads for forgiveness for what he's about to do.
So good
While I do love that Just a Man animatic so much, there is another that when Odysseus walks towards the edge with the baby it cuts to the mother of the baby screaming after it and crying as she is pulled away by Ody's soldiers
That video is so heartbreaking, it's amazing
Wolfy’s remake version! That one is amazing
OMG WHICH ONE IS THAT ONE???? 😭
@@SleepyHollowKnight The one by WolfyTheWitch! One of my personal favorites for Just a Man honestly
@@WeirdCreature963 oh okay, I’ll be sure to check it out!
The call n response is really interesting.
Chorus: What do you live for?
He responds with his wife
Chorus: What do you try for?
He responds with his son
Chorus: What do you wish for?
He responds with his desire to head home
Chorus: What do you fight for?
He has no answer, just tells his men to attack
Love that little detail
Fits really well, because Ody didn't wanted to be involved in this war, but had to fight because he promised his allies to protect Helen's marriage if it came to it not expecting for it to actually happen.
also in the horse and the infant, something Zeus says; the gods will let him know. this shows they're just playing with him.
either you kill this boy, or no matter what you do, we're going to tell him to kill you
More so the gods on the Trojan’s side
It's not that they're playing with him. Remember that Greek gods arent a monolith and the Trojan war had gods picking sides, so the gods that aren't happy about their side (Troy) losing would be more than happy to get back at Odysseus through informing the boy. And considering Apollo generally favored Troy? The boy finding out was basically a guarantee.
A big part of this is Karma; the pain you sow is brought back upon you threefold. Only the gods can take lives without karmic retribution - humans killing other humans is met with some form of punishment, whether judicial or divine in nature.
Additionally, it’s interesting when you consider the perspective of the gods as objectively - though not necessarily morally - correct. I’ll talk more on this when the two of them reach My Goodbye and/or Ruthlessness.
@@feistsorcerer2251 oh yeah, Apollo would back the prince of troy so hard. Probably send a plague or two as well
Makes sense the olympians took sides in the war and maybe Zeus is lying abt how Odysseus wanted to raise him himself
In rewatching this here, I'm realizing that they establish the theme of the musical from the first song. "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose," is the whole story. At every turning point, Odysseus _wants_ to avoid bloodshed, but ultimately his choices can only affect _whose_ blood is shed. Epic is about Odysseus having to learn that you can't save everyone, so you have to prioritize the people you care about.
20:44 his sudden realization that THAT SONG THE SONG HE COVERED! is about KILLING A *CHILD* chefs kiss that was perfect thank you for the perfect line delivery 👏👌❤️
20:39 "I have really only one question for you, when does a man become a monster?" [Casper gasps] [Mortius cackles] 🤣
my man you are evil and i did the exact same thing when you were first reacting to it
I will do anything, and I mean *anything* for more epic content, I need it like I need *air* , so I thank you kind sir for feeding my obsession! :DDD
Truer words were never spoken
*So true!*
P.S: for the bold words to work there needs to be spaces on either side.
I at least want to see him react to Jorge's Get in the Water.
FR LIKE IM OBSESSED, ITS NO JOKR ALWAYS ON MY MIND
@@Cybernetic-alien thanks! :))) i fixed it
You had an evil laugh moment at the beginning of just a man
😈
"when does a man become a monster"
Thats brutal of you Mortius
And absolute killer blow
Love it
5:20 "I wasn't expecting this to be upbeat"
THat facial expression says EVERYTHING XD
He took that back _real_ fast.
The child being dropped from the palace walls are canon within the story of the Odyssey as well. In most retellings, the mother of the child is even either forced to watch or watched her child get killed by fall damage as she herself is taken away to be a prisoner. Wolfy shows this scene really well in one of her animatics of it.
I read somewhere that Astyanax was actually used as a melee weapon to bludgeon someone.
@@disableddragonborn Neo, son of Achilles, used the prince to bludgeon Priam (the baby’s grandfather) to death
@@catherinecao4810 That's evil.
Becoming a member of the epic fandom is great because its like "Hey Guys! Ive heard a lot of great stuff about this musical and i appreciate you letting me join! ... Why are you all holding knives?"
The eagle is Zeus' sacred animal. So the eagle in those scenes is Zeus appearing in eagle form.
Astyanax's death is definitely from the Odyssey, but there are two versions. The most common is that Odysseus throws him from the walls. But there is also a version where Achilles' son, Neoptolemus, or Pyrrhus, dashes his head against a wall. This is the character referred to as "Neo" in The Horse and the Infant.
I think he was stating that the bird is not from Zeus, but rather Athena, from Warrior of the Mind
@@bewolver6173 No. Athena's animal is an owl. Zeus' is an eagle. They're different birds.
@@bookswithike3256 Some versions get even worse than that. I know there's one where Neo uses the infant's body to beat Priam (his grandfather) to death.
@@feistsorcerer2251 Huh. I can't imagine a baby is a terribly effective bludgeoning weapon.
@@bookswithike3256 Yeah if it worked I cannot imagine it would be anything resembling quick, so I always found that one a little weird. I think it was in one of the retellings that came after Homer so knowing the ways those went it might have been added specifically for the level of sheer brutality it implies. Like a story embellishment to shock the audience and set the retelling apart, though that's just speculation on my end.
You've entered stage 2 of the Epic infection: seeking out uninfected potential hosts to spread it too~ ONE OF US ONE OF US!!
Don’t know if you noticed, but the branches of the tree form into a nose and holes for eyes in a helmet. The dark tree literally form into a ‘monster’.
26:00 the thing that at first he was holding baby like it was his own but now he is holding it like an object. That he lost the empathy in order to not feel that guilty.
Mortius evilly cackling as poor Casper's heart breaks is a perfect representation of me, i do this all the time XD
Another connection about the Helmet-In the original Illiad, which chronicles the tale of the Trojan War, when the father goes to pick up his son (the infant in this song), the child starts crying in his arms because the helmet that Hector is wearing is hiding his face-the toddler cannot tell the difference between his own father and a monster, when the shadow of war is obscuring the face of someone he loves.
Was SO MUCH FUN to watch this with you, Mortius!
I hope you guys all enjoyed the reaction!
React to the whole series together, please!
Agree. Please?
I wanna see you reacting to Gigi´s Keep Your Friends Close and Ruthlessness so bad lol
Where it all began 😁
"Horse and the Infant" is SUCH a strong start to a musical, it sucks you in IMMEDIATELY, that first minute starting right in the action, the sentimentality of "Penelope~ " + the heartbeat, it's so good
My first thought when I heard the song was that it felt like the climax of a movie, like this was supposed to be the end of all the fighting and struggle 😅 if they only knew!
_ONE OF US!_
_ONE OF US!_
_ONE OF US!_
Traumatize the lad! 😂😂😂
31:50 in the Odyssey, there is a council vote on whether or not to kill the child. Odysseus voted to kill the child. Either him or Achilles’ son threw the baby over the trojan wall.
There's also a version where Neoptolomus (Achilles' son) beats the old king Priam (who is the infants grandfather) to death with the body of Astynax (the infant), it's not clear whether Astynax is dead or not at the beginning of Neo's actions.
Neo was a menace man
Even wilder, Neo was like an early teen at the time. The boy's out for blood
One thing I really love about The Horse and the Infant is that you can hear the steady ticking of a clock in the background which signifies Athena's heavy influence on Odysseus.
A lot of the end of the trojan war, including the horse, isn't actually in the Odyssey. There's a gap between the Illiad and the Odyssey where we have a lot of fragmented narrative elements born out of the same oral storytelling tradition as the Epics, but different versions. As far as I'm aware, Hector's son (Astyanax, btw) dies in every version where he's mentioned. Granted, not all of them have Odysseus as the one killing him (sometimes it's just "the Greeks" with no specific killer mentioned, and some versions have Neoptolomus (son of Achilles, referrered to as Neo in The Horse and the Infant. Achilles was killed by Paris, who was one of Hector's brothers.) being the one to kill him.
I love that little evil laugh moment you had right when ‘Just A Man’ started 😂
"Like, SUPER MARIO ODISSEY?" BRO 😂
So the characters have been confirmed from Jay himself it is Zeus (played by Luke Holt) in the first song and the bird is an Eagle that represents Zeus a lot of the Greek gods have symbols and animals that also represent them so it’s pretty cool Jay has added a bit of it into the songs!
Remember the good old days when Diomedes would lead the charge, and Agemenmon would flank the guards?
I love the expressions of Mortius waiting for the comments of his friend! 😂
Mortius' evil laughter as he played the next song was priceless
Why is his cackle the same one book readers of Game of Thrones had when their friends watched the Red Wedding
No matter what song, or who is reacting, I will immediately click on anything related to *EPIC* . Thank you for speeding the word, and posting more reactions!
My thanks to you for growing the *WINION ARMY!*
Yes! Yes! Inject more Epic content into my veins!
You've probably learned by now, but Gigi reuploaded these two together with the new versions of the songs, and added a little extra bit to it.
Mortius at the end of the infant and the horse was pure evil
7:35 I just love how in this animation Agamemnon just freight trains the guards! :D
"Will these actions haunt my days"
Mortius: Y e s
Mortius is all of us when we show friends stuff we love. Just. The reactions to a friends reactions make this soooo much funnier.
"I can make sure his past is never known"
"The Gods will make him know"
Well damn, if you were just gonna threaten the guy, ya should have led with that.😂
19:14 I HAD THE SAME REACTION. I LITERALLY PAUSED BECAUSE I WAS SO SURPRISED. Casper's like Tiresias with that prophetic phrasing.
That introduction to Just a man was so heartbreaking😂
I'm convinced if EPIC ever gets a stage production "Just a Man" will be the song they sing at the Tonys
How could it be anything else?? It's such a beautiful & powerful song
3:30 Mortius asking CFReactsYT: Are you ready?
CFReactsYT: 👍
Missed chance to say: I don’t think you’re ready
😂😂😂
My favorite thing about the particular Fan Animatic of Just a Man that they reacted to is the black tree sprouting from the infant because of what it represents. This child is the root of everything for this story. If Odysseus does not kill the child here, it becomes the root of problems later always resulting in his wife and sons deaths. But, by killing the child here, it becomes the root of problems later on resulting in everyone of Odysseus's crew dying. I adore the symbolism.
Revisiting this video again, it's crazy how I gather you were just searching for someone to share Epic with and it happened to work out with Casper, and now look, you've made your own channel together and both love the musical, and so on! Interesting how things work out sometimes, isn't it? :)
In the original text dropping the baby was the first turning point in which odysseus really started to question and waver in his mentor’s teachings.
Greek mythology is also heavily grounded in mortals and in some cases gods being unable to change their fate no matter the struggle. Take the story of oedipus for example. So what Zeus was really saying was do you want to kill an infant or your wife and son. Choose.
There’s a couple variations of the odyssey, one where Odysseus does in fact drop the infant, and other versions where one of his soldiers… I forget the name of said soldier… is the one to kill the infant. So really the infant dies either way but Jorge chose the one that would best tell the story he wanted which was Odysseus himself.
i might be wrong but i think that was eurilechus(idk if thats how his name is spelled) who dropped the childe in place of ody
yep! soldier you’re looking for is neoptolemus or pyrrhus (same person, just alt names), son of Achilles (hence “Neo, avenge your father, kill the brothers of Hector”)
Spoiler for epic the musical:
He did throw the infant off the wall ☺️☺️
That's why I love the animatics, they add meaning and understanding to the lyrics, which are already so perfect on their own.
I also struggle with auditory processing and the animatics really help.
I hope you will react to the underworld saga with animatics too.
I am now convinced that big man set out the just a man song super like popular then set out the rest cuz. I listened to just a man for like 6 months before i listed to the rest… TO THE POINT that it became my mom’s favorite song….. i ended up needing to tall my mom the real story and it make us both cry
I love this guy! Great attitude dude, keep being yourself. The evil cackling at his horror at Just A Man XD
Coming back to watch these reactions is really funny - especially Casper's face when Zeus comes in knowing how much Casper loves Luke now!
i'm enjoying your reactions so much! All the fan artists for this community are INSANE
"This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!" -Nute Gunray
can i just say how much i love the dynamic between you two! I love your excitement in getting to share the musical, as well as your ability to give insight and clarity, meanwhile Casper brings an entirely different perspective. Cant wait to see more of these!!
favorite part of this was relating to you, watching you as he reacts to the song just reminds me of myself showing my friends things.
Y'all are so cute xD
I love how excited you are.
Yeeees! Drag anyone you can into the hyper fixation. It's for their own good. (That's what I tell myself as I very carefully attempt to get everyone I know hooked on it.)
Coming back to this after the latest saga released and going through this again with you and a first-time reactor…. Sure brings up many new feelings in regards to these songs. xD
Get you a man who carves your wedding bed out of a tree
Damn this is premiering right when my break ends. Guess I’ll see it after work
Oh, something that another fan noticed, firstly Athena sings “mind” on only one high note (Odysseus sings it “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” using a few notes), after that he and Athena sing it with Athena’s one high note and Odysseus’ few notes, and the second duo has both of them singing “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” showing their connection and harmonization. Athena stays in the few notes at the end. You could also show drifting away in the same way.
Another thing, adding to the angel and devil thing, the lower voice represents the harshness of the character, while Polites’ high voice showcases his optimism. It’s also supposed to differentiate them, cause one said ‘go attack them’ and the other says ‘go and be friends with them’.
Fun fact: Athena is a maiden goddess. The children of Athena made out of thoughts thingy was made for PJO exclusively. And an owl is Athena’s sacred animal.
And look out for ‘the danger theme’. There is a motif in music called the danger theme added by Jay.
“When does a man become a monster?” You know when.
Annabeth from SoM and Polites parallel but a bit different
The chaotic laughter after you ask "when does a man become a monster?" 😭✋🏾
Little late but: the Eagle is also one of Zeus's sacred animals and it heralded his arrival...
I saw the Peter Barber channel reactions advertised to me on UA-cam, then I watched those 4 covering the Troy saga and loved them. They added to my experience. Then another reactor was advertised to me. They both mentioned Fox and Mortious. So now I’ve watched ALL of M’s reactions (had a blast) and I’m finally here in chronological order and WILL be watching all these reactors lol. You’ve all gained another winion subscriber ❤
I immediately sent this comment to Casper too I appreciate this so much thanks for being here man
Just a man was the second song from the epic I heard, I imagined a lullaby style with a child listening to their grandfather's war stories. OH HOW I WISH IT WAS
Oh this is gonna be fun
PLEASE tell me you're gonna show em a wolfythewitch animatic. they're SO evocative and well made.
He said in the beginning that full speed ahead will be wolfy's animatic :)
13:57 Zeus sounds like Tomi at some points not the whole time but they sound similar maybe just the "a vision of" only but still but since he can sound different when singing not speaking one or its the dramatic flare and acting seem similar
Thank you guys for being so much fun!! You two are like the male versions of myself and one of my best friends 😁
Oh man, I love people discovering Epic. It’s an absolute blast to practically see the thoughts unfold. ESPECIALLY when it’s someone who knows music. I’m not very in the know when it comes to music, but I ADORE anything art-nerdy, which is one of the reasons as to why I like Epic so much. And, of course, I like music. And Greek mythology. And history (I’m literally a Humanities student). I’m also a theatre kid, so this literally could not be more up my alley!! But rambling aside. I love to see people begin to unpack everything, and see them get *excited* about it. Because we know, it only gets better (and worse, emotionally) from here
I think one of my favorite lyrics in the second song, is actually not talked about from what I've seen. "When does the reason become the blame."
gigi is such a great animator, it makes me so sad their animatic for ruthlessness is almost never watched by reaction videos
So excited!
When the tree is growing, just before Odysseus picks the child up, you get a shot of him walking towards the crib. The trees branches from the shape of the child's face after he grows up and comes back for revenge. It's literally showing what he'll grow into
17 hours ago Gigi posted the animatic of Monster - The underworld saga!!! I think is the one to react!!
It never even occurred to me that Lil Baby would be the man becoming the monster, Mortius!
I could only think 'Prophecies can hit snags due to outside influences, much like Sleeping Beauty sleeping instead of losing her life. If Odysseus tells this child the honest truth of Troy, gives him reasons and begs forgiveness, the boy will be old enough to be merciful or ruthless towards Ithaca. He could love his adoptive family too much to hurt them, whether Ody takes him or sends him to some Winion island.'
I know I'm in denial, I just don't want this kid to suffer for his entire life, then bring everyone around him suffering. Polites would be his uncle, come on! He won't be completely heartless! Hatred is something that's taught, not something you're born with. Odysseus and his family would have loved him.
Man. 😅I'm rewatching Casper's reactions to epic stuff in prep for Vengence Saga. Look at how far both of y'all have come.
It feels so weird comparing the two. They're like two completely different people.
just a man makes me bawl like a freaking baby
Oh god! People! Get ready!!!
Odysseus does in fact drop the baby from a wall in the Odyssey
Also, there other versions where Achilles son killed the baby.
There is even a version where Neo (son of Achilles) beats the last king of Troy to death(the baby's grandfather) with infants body.
It's funny because the music stings of of Odysseus walking down the hall to the room (the chorus and synth in the background) follow that same marching motif as Be Prepared from The Lion King
I desperately wish I had friends who would let me have the experience you are having in this video. Ive gotten a couple people to listen to Epic, but I wasn't able to get their reaction! We've obviously chatted about it but it is just so sad to not get that initial reaction.
I showed this animatics to my best friend and I love how extremely similar our reactions were to yours.
I know that you already listed to/watched the animatics fior EPIC up until to the circe saga, but I hope you two can react on the whole act 1 together up to the underworld saga. I really love you guy's discussions.
"i really only have one question for you. When does a man become a monster?" i love when people are traumatized by epic and proceed to traumatize others with it. its what i did to my best friend...
I have to say i adore your dynamic while watching this, the context you provide and the fresh reactions he has make for an amazing reaction vid!! Can't wait to see the vid on his channel!!❤❤
You guys are an awesome team! Love when you both geek out on your individual areas of interest
ONE OF US ONE OF US
Now that it's being brought up by you to someone else & I'm actively thinking about it (the fact that it's a quarter after 2 when I'm watching this video probably doesn't help either,) but the reason why the gods are allowed to "break the rules" is actually because of storytelling themes that are deeply baked into the structure of Greek myth: the gods are able to enforce their will by virtue of divine mandate, or they're allowed to do what they do explicitly *_BECAUSE_* of their status of gods. By contrast, humans must enforce their will not by virtue of who they are, but by wresting the power to do so, typically through collecting a group of similarly aligned people working together with the same goal in mind. Given Greece's history at the time being almost solely being defined by drawing disparate ideologies together to create a potent force, such themes are to be expected; however, it's important to note that these themes are recursive throughout these myths: be it a son looking to overthrow his tyrant father, a group of soldiers led by their king to escape the grasp of the gods they've angered by attacking their seat of worship, or the gods themselves defying and defeating the titans who before the age of the gods acted like oppressors, the themes remain the same no matter what level the scope lays at.
Personally, I find it a rather fascinating aspect of Greek mythology that you don't see too much in other mythologies, or if such aspects were there, the original meanings behind the iconography has either been muddied to the point of irrelevance (Roman mythology,) or the original meanings have been lost to time (Aztec mythology)
Just wanted to point out that the nites in zeus' part where he's singing talking about the possibilities with Ody are the same notes as siren Penelope telling Ody he has to go to the lair of Scylla. No clue if that means anything or if its just a cool little thing but yeah.