Pa-11 was developed more for SLS printing(so I've been told), and PA-12 is better for moisture resistant FDM but very expensive. PA-6 is cheaper and stronger but very hygroscopic. I'd like to see more on the Prusa PA sheet before I inevitably add one to my collection. The material science part of 3D printing filaments fascinates me and I really enjoy your material testing videos for this reason. Great work Igor.
PA-11 was discovered in the 1940's and is made from castor oil. The types of Nylon were not designed but discovered. It certainly can't have been made for SLS printing unless time travel has been invented. The material science side of 3D printing doesn't seem to fascinate you enough to simply read the wikipedia articles on each one.
PA12 is very hygroscopic, even though less then PA6. If its humid, its useless if its used for parts under constant load. for Humid enviroment, and load of time parts (for example a bracket that holds a heavy surveilance camera), use PET, PPS, PEI, PC.. they wont deform with humidity.
Thanks for the great work. Seems like i will continue to use PcBlend CF (annealed) for my under bonnet car parts, i was Curious about the pa11 though. Creep and heat creep is very important to keep things screwed together in hot environments. And i did some long term testing of different materials, PCCF dont seem to be affected by petrol, and it prints super easily.
@@MyTechFun Awesome channel I hope you know a lot of people benefit from your tests. I have one question till now I mostly used pla+, but I need more heat resistance and some filament that doesn't shatter on impact. Do you know a somewhat easy to print fillament which fulfills the requirements above? Thanks in advance.
@@studywithme8055 Best PLA I tested is Engineering PLA by Filaticum. 150°C . I printed a fan shroud for prusa (which has to be from ASA), it works ua-cam.com/video/uF2_ceBQ40Y/v-deo.html
@@MyTechFunYeah I watched that video, but it is a bit expensive for 1kg. Is there any other solution (a bit cheaper if possible). By the way when you do the temperature test do you start from 0? Do you turn on the under and upper heating element or one of them? Is there a orientation of the specimen while printing?
Honestly that filament looks wet. I would repeat at least the test tower after 24h 70°C drying. It shouldn't string that much. You used 285°C anyway so it's probably ok for the strength tests, but the test tower should be repeated. Concerning the layer adhesion breaking in the wrong place, my explanation is the following: the throat is smaller so when the next layer comes, the previous one is still very hot and sticks better. When the larger layers are printed, the previous one is not as hot because each layer takes longer, and adhesion is poorer. This effect (you can see with PLA for example) happens only at a certain temperature threshold: the layer adhesion above a certain temperature does not increase anymore. If you experience the issue, it means that the print temperature should be higher, so that even larger layers still are able to keep the previous layer hot enough. Of course print quality in super small layers will suffer. You can avoid the issue by setting a relatively large minimum layer times: this way you remove this variability because smaller layers take the same time as larger ones, and the cool down the same way. Cooling and layer time are magic, it does not exist AT ALL so far a calibration procedure to obtain optimal 1) minimum layer time 2) minimum and maximum cooling fan speed 3) minimum speed for small layers.
Very interesting. I wonder that the carbon content in Prusa PA11 is... because even if it was really strong, it seemed quite brittle and with very little elongtion before break compared to other CF-nylons you've tested 🤔. To me the advantage of CF-nylons is that some you can print very large parts without warping that have overall good mechanical properties and high heat resitance on an open frame consumer level machine, if it warps more than PC-CF I think the only advantage would be the chemical resistance that you mention, because it will be limited to small parts for most people
It looks like it is very similar to the discontinued coex nylon or dupont zytel. Great mechanical properties, but the cost vs benefits aren't quite there. printability seems very poor. Although there is some hope, I've seen some beautiful pa11 prints using the bamboo labs lidar system. Maybe there's some additional tuning that makes a difference in the final print.
If you can source from Poland try Company Rosa3d.They have filaments like PA12 WITH 15%CF chopper carbon fiber. And They have competitive price. I'm using this for small form factor high pressure (6-7 bar) molds in temp from 120 to 150 C in cycles around 3-4h long
Hi Sir, I love your videos, I am very thankful to find such an in depth engineering approach to 3D printing. May I ask if you would consider the "Nylon X" Filament by Matterhackers? I would like to see it survive your load/mechanical test. Thank you I hope winter is tresting you well. It is 30° F here in the Tropics of Florida.
As always great video! I m a bit disappointed with this filament but it should be compatible with vapor sterilisation. It could be interesting. Can you compare the rigidity of this filament after 10 minutes in boiling water?
20:21 The gradual softening of the PC blend indicates an amorphous thermoplastic, with a wide melting range. The sudden melting of the PA11 specimen indicates a high degree of crystallinity, with a rather distinct melting point.
Great vidoes thanks for your comprehensive testing, you are even better than CNC kitchen because your tests are consistent and have a repeatable format, keep up the good work
The marketing for this buildplate is ambiguous about whether this sheet is coated with actual Nylon, or rather an unspecified material suitable for printing with Nylon. I suspect it is PEI with a thin overcoating of Nylon, which would explain the need for water-only cleaning. To my knowledge, Nylon is plasticized by isopropanol, but resistant to acetone. Therefore, it's surprising that Prusa would prohibit acetone cleaning, if the bed was coated only with Nylon. Anyone care to reverse engineer it?
Try printing this on any other bed but the one Prusa sells, it will not stick, nothing works, Nano Polymer, Magigoo, Gluestick, spit, urine, nothing, honestly its the worst nylon cf I have used to date, I will be off loading the stock I purchased and and hold out for the PC-CF to come back into stock.
@@MyTechFun I usually use simple PETG and there is no difference between expensive Prusa PETG, Das Filament PETG or any other. Also the Prusa printers are too expensive for what they are as well so in general their products. But you might have a different opinion. Also CF filled material are dangerous to use in a home environment, I would not print that stuff at home at all.
@@sierraecho884 "Also CF filled material are dangerous to use in a home environment, I would not print that stuff at home at all." Please elaborate on why CF material is more dangerous than other materials (ie, vs ABS, PC, GF, etc.). Thanks.
@@retromodernart4426 Because the small carbon fiber particles are respirable, they do cause cancer like asbestos does. Most people have no venting whatsoever which means those particles will be released during printing, handling or sanding. Many people are also are not aware that you should only sand CF filled material with water. You can print that stuff somewhat safe if you have a vented chamber and do not sand your prints "dry" but many people are not even aware that those risk exist. Furthermore, there is almost no benefit to CF filled material. They are stiffer than normal parts but at the same time very pricey, it is not worth the trade off at all. In industrial applications CF filled plastics are used for their reduction in shrinkage, this is also the case with 3D printing but they are not really much better beyond that in their mechanical properties.
@@MyTechFun Have you made a video on PP ? PP is the most sold plastic and has great mechanical properties. I think printing it is really a headache, however it will be much easier to print if a GF/CF filled filament exists.
Dude you are the shit man, you deserve to have 1 million subs with the video quality and depth of information. Thanks so much man.
Pa-11 was developed more for SLS printing(so I've been told), and PA-12 is better for moisture resistant FDM but very expensive. PA-6 is cheaper and stronger but very hygroscopic. I'd like to see more on the Prusa PA sheet before I inevitably add one to my collection. The material science part of 3D printing filaments fascinates me and I really enjoy your material testing videos for this reason. Great work Igor.
PA-11 was discovered in the 1940's and is made from castor oil. The types of Nylon were not designed but discovered. It certainly can't have been made for SLS printing unless time travel has been invented. The material science side of 3D printing doesn't seem to fascinate you enough to simply read the wikipedia articles on each one.
@@backgammonbacon Take a course in reading comprehension. Have a nice holiday!!
Hammer skin ?
PA12 is very hygroscopic, even though less then PA6. If its humid, its useless if its used for parts under constant load.
for Humid enviroment, and load of time parts (for example a bracket that holds a heavy surveilance camera), use PET, PPS, PEI, PC.. they wont deform with humidity.
Thanks for the great work. Seems like i will continue to use PcBlend CF (annealed) for my under bonnet car parts, i was Curious about the pa11 though. Creep and heat creep is very important to keep things screwed together in hot environments. And i did some long term testing of different materials, PCCF dont seem to be affected by petrol, and it prints super easily.
Thank you for your support and for great info (about petrol), good to know. thx.
@@MyTechFun Awesome channel I hope you know a lot of people benefit from your tests. I have one question till now I mostly used pla+, but I need more heat resistance and some filament that doesn't shatter on impact. Do you know a somewhat easy to print fillament which fulfills the requirements above? Thanks in advance.
@@studywithme8055 Best PLA I tested is Engineering PLA by Filaticum. 150°C . I printed a fan shroud for prusa (which has to be from ASA), it works ua-cam.com/video/uF2_ceBQ40Y/v-deo.html
@@MyTechFunYeah I watched that video, but it is a bit expensive for 1kg. Is there any other solution (a bit cheaper if possible). By the way when you do the temperature test do you start from 0? Do you turn on the under and upper heating element or one of them? Is there a orientation of the specimen while printing?
this channel is gold
it was an interesting review thanks for making it
Honestly that filament looks wet. I would repeat at least the test tower after 24h 70°C drying. It shouldn't string that much. You used 285°C anyway so it's probably ok for the strength tests, but the test tower should be repeated.
Concerning the layer adhesion breaking in the wrong place, my explanation is the following: the throat is smaller so when the next layer comes, the previous one is still very hot and sticks better. When the larger layers are printed, the previous one is not as hot because each layer takes longer, and adhesion is poorer.
This effect (you can see with PLA for example) happens only at a certain temperature threshold: the layer adhesion above a certain temperature does not increase anymore. If you experience the issue, it means that the print temperature should be higher, so that even larger layers still are able to keep the previous layer hot enough. Of course print quality in super small layers will suffer.
You can avoid the issue by setting a relatively large minimum layer times: this way you remove this variability because smaller layers take the same time as larger ones, and the cool down the same way.
Cooling and layer time are magic, it does not exist AT ALL so far a calibration procedure to obtain optimal 1) minimum layer time 2) minimum and maximum cooling fan speed 3) minimum speed for small layers.
Very interesting. I wonder that the carbon content in Prusa PA11 is... because even if it was really strong, it seemed quite brittle and with very little elongtion before break compared to other CF-nylons you've tested 🤔. To me the advantage of CF-nylons is that some you can print very large parts without warping that have overall good mechanical properties and high heat resitance on an open frame consumer level machine, if it warps more than PC-CF I think the only advantage would be the chemical resistance that you mention, because it will be limited to small parts for most people
It looks like it is very similar to the discontinued coex nylon or dupont zytel. Great mechanical properties, but the cost vs benefits aren't quite there. printability seems very poor. Although there is some hope, I've seen some beautiful pa11 prints using the bamboo labs lidar system. Maybe there's some additional tuning that makes a difference in the final print.
If you can source from Poland try Company Rosa3d.They have filaments like PA12 WITH 15%CF chopper carbon fiber. And They have competitive price. I'm using this for small form factor high pressure (6-7 bar) molds in temp from 120 to 150 C in cycles around 3-4h long
I will contact them, but you could contact them in Polish language too and suggest my channel ;-) If they send me sample spools, I will do the testing
Hi Sir,
I love your videos, I am very thankful to find such an in depth engineering approach to 3D printing.
May I ask if you would consider the "Nylon X" Filament by Matterhackers?
I would like to see it survive your load/mechanical test.
Thank you I hope winter is tresting you well. It is 30° F here in the Tropics of Florida.
I heard about Nylon X. Probably in this year, I will test it. If not send my Matterhackers, then I will buy it myself (if available in EU)
The long awaited PA11 review!
As always great video!
I m a bit disappointed with this filament but it should be compatible with vapor sterilisation. It could be interesting.
Can you compare the rigidity of this filament after 10 minutes in boiling water?
Esun PAHT for a fraction of the price.
20:21 The gradual softening of the PC blend indicates an amorphous thermoplastic, with a wide melting range. The sudden melting of the PA11 specimen indicates a high degree of crystallinity, with a rather distinct melting point.
This PA sheet it does not work with regular nylon 6, maybe works well with low warping nylon filaments like nylon 12 or prusament fiber nylon
It's for high temp and chemical resistance, basically car parts that get hot
Some very interesting results there. Many thanks!
Amazing video as always!
Great vidoes thanks for your comprehensive testing, you are even better than CNC kitchen because your tests are consistent and have a repeatable format, keep up the good work
Thank you for these videos. Very informative. Would be nice to always have a baseline companion filament like a common pla that we can all reference.
Thank you very much for theese detailed tests you have done. Very interesting and helpful, espacially the creep tests helped me a lot. 🙂
extrudr just released TPU + CF.
Would be great, if you could review that as well.
I just got from Extrudr 3 types of PETG and their all TPU filaments for testing. But probably videos will be published in January.
@@MyTechFun Nice! 😀
Thx for your work!
The marketing for this buildplate is ambiguous about whether this sheet is coated with actual Nylon, or rather an unspecified material suitable for printing with Nylon. I suspect it is PEI with a thin overcoating of Nylon, which would explain the need for water-only cleaning. To my knowledge, Nylon is plasticized by isopropanol, but resistant to acetone. Therefore, it's surprising that Prusa would prohibit acetone cleaning, if the bed was coated only with Nylon.
Anyone care to reverse engineer it?
Try printing this on any other bed but the one Prusa sells, it will not stick, nothing works, Nano Polymer, Magigoo, Gluestick, spit, urine, nothing, honestly its the worst nylon cf I have used to date, I will be off loading the stock I purchased and and hold out for the PC-CF to come back into stock.
wow good to know, thanks!
Available metal filament
Prusa product are completely overpriced.
PA11 (and Nylon itself is expensive). But for example I found their price of PC Blend CF very acceptable.
@@MyTechFun I usually use simple PETG and there is no difference between expensive Prusa PETG, Das Filament PETG or any other. Also the Prusa printers are too expensive for what they are as well so in general their products. But you might have a different opinion.
Also CF filled material are dangerous to use in a home environment, I would not print that stuff at home at all.
@@sierraecho884 "Also CF filled material are dangerous to use in a home environment, I would not print that stuff at home at all."
Please elaborate on why CF material is more dangerous than other materials (ie, vs ABS, PC, GF, etc.).
Thanks.
@@retromodernart4426 Because the small carbon fiber particles are respirable, they do cause cancer like asbestos does. Most people have no venting whatsoever which means those particles will be released during printing, handling or sanding. Many people are also are not aware that you should only sand CF filled material with water.
You can print that stuff somewhat safe if you have a vented chamber and do not sand your prints "dry" but many people are not even aware that those risk exist.
Furthermore, there is almost no benefit to CF filled material. They are stiffer than normal parts but at the same time very pricey, it is not worth the trade off at all.
In industrial applications CF filled plastics are used for their reduction in shrinkage, this is also the case with 3D printing but they are not really much better beyond that in their mechanical properties.
@@MyTechFun Have you made a video on PP ?
PP is the most sold plastic and has great mechanical properties. I think printing it is really a headache, however it will be much easier to print if a GF/CF filled filament exists.