Just a small correction to something Ethan says early on here: There actually is a Foundations Arena Open happening on November 30th (and December 1st for Day 2). WotC kind of snuck it into the Arena Announcements last week without putting it into the "Upcoming Events" portion. We also got word today that there will be an Arena Direct event for Foundations this weekend, starting on November 22nd.
I've personally loved this set so far; I've drafted it more than duskmourn. The "meat and potatoes" play style has reminded me why I started getting into Magic in the first place
Surprised to see Ethan say Mischievous Mystic underperforms, I've lost to it multiple times and it is pretty easy to enable it with think twice and fleeting distraction at common, plus it's absurd with uncommons like dreadwing scavenger and vampire gourmand For what it's worth it's also the third uncommon by GIH WR on 17lands right now
I think that sixth point of mana on Shivan Dragon is tough. You likely start with what - three lands opening hand? Four is a sketchy keep most of the time, as is two. In five turns (4 or 5 draw steps) it's not unrealistic you draw the fourth and fifth land. But across five or six draw steps it's less likely you get the fourth, fifth, AND sixth land. So Shivan Dragon warms the bench more and Serra Angel gets to swing out more often, and more confidently due to vigilance. Having the biggest flying VIGILANT meatball in the sky means you can just knock on your opponent's door and force chumps in the air, draw out removal, or win.
It's maybe hard to do a full 3 creature plus counter spell control build because there's not enough interaction, card advantage, etc going around but to Ethan's point there are still grindy, enginy, go late game decks that still very much win by sticking a big fat flyer. But you have to use some value creatures as blockers to trade off or sac fodder for black cards. I think y'all ar eboth underrating blue though especially talking about control decks, essence scatter and refute are awesome counters. I often go in with an Mischevious Mystic, and that can act as an engine for a lot of blue cards that loot, like strix lookout and the 5 mana 3/4. I've had some good fun with blue control.
Me listening to LordsOfLimited: Yeah, this sounds about right. 😌 Me listening to LordsOfLimited after an Episode of MagicNumbers/LimitedLevelups: I'm confused. It cant possibly be that all the stats are wrong? 🤨
macabre waltz facilitates the reanimate effect 4 cost sorcery really well so it reads as all upside, and at 2 mana u can do that plus reanimate on 6 assuming you have the targets
My best deck was mono green (so good that I had a turn 5 kill with it). Needs some good rares. But, there are some good elf lords. And because green is so open, you get it all.
I had a sick mono green deck just splashing Anthem of Champions that trophied in Mythic. I had 3 Llanowar Elves, a curve of good creatures, an Overrun, and a couple of good rares.
Lol @ skibidi toilet rizzz Very relavent to me as my wife and I went hard on all these words to our kids last night. She just learned alot of the GenA slang and it was a barf session of these words.
With a disclaimer that I have not played almost any green myself, look at the winning green decks on 17lands paints a different picture than you suggested. You'll see way more aggressive decks than control ones. The card data supports that as well, with Llanowar Elves as the far-and-away the best common, followed by the dorky 4/2 Flash wolf (!) and the 3/3 trampler that grows. This seems weird to me, probably as much as it must sound to you given how... bad the wolf looks, but to be fair I 100% agree with Ben that green's lategame is underwhelming-maybe the "aggro" plan on the back of your vanilla 4/2s and 4/3 tramplers is just the way to go if you want to have any chance winning with green?
I've had a lot of success with this style of green deck. Green has some huge creatures at the 3 and 4 mana slot. The key is getting trample from Garruk's Onslaught or Overrun so your creatures don't get chump blocked to oblivion.
The 4/2 flash enables “4 power matters”, as well as you can leave your mana up for either a bite or if you don’t need it, add this to the board end of turn. Ends up being more pressure than they planned their turn around.
I much prefer refute over bouncer. Honestly at 4 mana I'm more likely to pick lightshell duo over bouncer. The surveil 2 is great to dug for answers and the prowess can get them sometimes.
19:55 a very interesting talking point, one that could use an hour+ of content on it. I am agreeing with Ben more than Ethan here, Helpful Hunter is a card I am going lower and lower on. In general its not a real threat, its more akin to a cantrip, and puts more air into your deck (Ethan said its a white card that 'smoothes' your draws, which is patently wrong). I remember seeing a deck on r/lrcast with 6-7 hunters and 13-14 lands, and thats kinda what you need to do to, otherwise you will just flood. Ofc if you are in 2 colors, that means you risk not finding your first plains, or your second land drop. If you play the more normal 16-17 land deck, Hunter in multiples could get you into trouble. It lines up well vs 3/1s but so do a bunch of other cards (1/1 tokens and such) so they generally push out 3/1s out of the format. It can be good in sacrifice decks, where in combination with other cards becomes a draw 2 for 2 mana (fundamentally different from replacing itself) or you could have some crazy cat deck with Arahbo's and anthem/overrun effects. Its a nice chump blocker in a fliers deck that helps you win races. It has some uses, but it does not make decks good, it slots nicely into already strong decks. Its not a high pick for me anymore, I would take Dazzling Angel or Rebuke over it early in the draft.
Love it fellas, thank you. You're analysis and banter is top notch. 🫡 Grain of salt as ive only just hit Platinum from bronze, but i can not stop drafting B/W. So many good cards. just grab the good cards, good removal and have the curve look stronk.
Just a small correction to something Ethan says early on here: There actually is a Foundations Arena Open happening on November 30th (and December 1st for Day 2). WotC kind of snuck it into the Arena Announcements last week without putting it into the "Upcoming Events" portion. We also got word today that there will be an Arena Direct event for Foundations this weekend, starting on November 22nd.
Thanks Mike!
I've personally loved this set so far; I've drafted it more than duskmourn. The "meat and potatoes" play style has reminded me why I started getting into Magic in the first place
💯
I didn't think I'd like this set, but it pleasantly surprised me. Feels like the type of Magic I played 10 years ago, in a good way
Stryx lookout has that Skibidi Toilet rizz, no cap. Somebody had to say it!
Bigger gyat than lealers lock
loving the set so far
Ben " I think bad players are drawn to Shivan dragon"
Ben will the casual self diss😂
oh no...
Surprised to see Ethan say Mischievous Mystic underperforms, I've lost to it multiple times and it is pretty easy to enable it with think twice and fleeting distraction at common, plus it's absurd with uncommons like dreadwing scavenger and vampire gourmand
For what it's worth it's also the third uncommon by GIH WR on 17lands right now
"Wow. We are drafting different decks." - Ethan - that sums up my experience quite well.
This is great. Often you guys debate but your both right just looking from different perspectives. Really enjoying it.
love how during the betterhelp ad read you guys both were thankful for Ethan xD thanks for the great episode
this format has amazing 1 mana spells. stab and burst being king but others exist in every color.
I think that sixth point of mana on Shivan Dragon is tough. You likely start with what - three lands opening hand? Four is a sketchy keep most of the time, as is two. In five turns (4 or 5 draw steps) it's not unrealistic you draw the fourth and fifth land. But across five or six draw steps it's less likely you get the fourth, fifth, AND sixth land. So Shivan Dragon warms the bench more and Serra Angel gets to swing out more often, and more confidently due to vigilance.
Having the biggest flying VIGILANT meatball in the sky means you can just knock on your opponent's door and force chumps in the air, draw out removal, or win.
Yeah it's rough for sure
It's maybe hard to do a full 3 creature plus counter spell control build because there's not enough interaction, card advantage, etc going around but to Ethan's point there are still grindy, enginy, go late game decks that still very much win by sticking a big fat flyer. But you have to use some value creatures as blockers to trade off or sac fodder for black cards. I think y'all ar eboth underrating blue though especially talking about control decks, essence scatter and refute are awesome counters. I often go in with an Mischevious Mystic, and that can act as an engine for a lot of blue cards that loot, like strix lookout and the 5 mana 3/4. I've had some good fun with blue control.
It's more of an on the board tempo deck that can play a control game.
Me listening to LordsOfLimited: Yeah, this sounds about right. 😌
Me listening to LordsOfLimited after an Episode of MagicNumbers/LimitedLevelups: I'm confused. It cant possibly be that all the stats are wrong? 🤨
Thanks for the content, as always! I am loving Foundations so far. 🎉 Any format where UB control is playable is a good format for me!
macabre waltz facilitates the reanimate effect 4 cost sorcery really well so it reads as all upside, and at 2 mana u can do that plus reanimate on 6 assuming you have the targets
Bigfin Bouncer is also good with Run Away Together which is another removal and everything that copies it.
Interestingly enough, mono green has a good win rate even though it isn't doing well in 2 color pairs.
Interesting!
My best deck was mono green (so good that I had a turn 5 kill with it). Needs some good rares. But, there are some good elf lords. And because green is so open, you get it all.
I had a sick mono green deck just splashing Anthem of Champions that trophied in Mythic. I had 3 Llanowar Elves, a curve of good creatures, an Overrun, and a couple of good rares.
Lol @ skibidi toilet rizzz
Very relavent to me as my wife and I went hard on all these words to our kids last night. She just learned alot of the GenA slang and it was a barf session of these words.
I miss Duskmourn I'm not touching this stupid format but I'll continue to tune in to the podcast !!!
In some formats you either bake BREAD or grow a BEARD. In Foundations, we eat BREAD!
Good takes Ben, Seeker's Folly is busted.
With a disclaimer that I have not played almost any green myself, look at the winning green decks on 17lands paints a different picture than you suggested. You'll see way more aggressive decks than control ones. The card data supports that as well, with Llanowar Elves as the far-and-away the best common, followed by the dorky 4/2 Flash wolf (!) and the 3/3 trampler that grows. This seems weird to me, probably as much as it must sound to you given how... bad the wolf looks, but to be fair I 100% agree with Ben that green's lategame is underwhelming-maybe the "aggro" plan on the back of your vanilla 4/2s and 4/3 tramplers is just the way to go if you want to have any chance winning with green?
Yeah i think so
I've had a lot of success with this style of green deck. Green has some huge creatures at the 3 and 4 mana slot. The key is getting trample from Garruk's Onslaught or Overrun so your creatures don't get chump blocked to oblivion.
The 4/2 flash enables “4 power matters”, as well as you can leave your mana up for either a bite or if you don’t need it, add this to the board end of turn. Ends up being more pressure than they planned their turn around.
Bouncer is blues best common along with think twice?
I much prefer refute over bouncer. Honestly at 4 mana I'm more likely to pick lightshell duo over bouncer. The surveil 2 is great to dug for answers and the prowess can get them sometimes.
I had a GW counters deck that went 7-1 and was busted. Other than GW I don’t think any of the other G decks work
also you pitch the etb demon its great
Zombify on that bad boy is grossssss
Hearing Ethan call Shivan Dragon a 6 mana do nothing within 5 minutes of the podcast was too much for me on a Monday
19:55 a very interesting talking point, one that could use an hour+ of content on it. I am agreeing with Ben more than Ethan here, Helpful Hunter is a card I am going lower and lower on. In general its not a real threat, its more akin to a cantrip, and puts more air into your deck (Ethan said its a white card that 'smoothes' your draws, which is patently wrong). I remember seeing a deck on r/lrcast with 6-7 hunters and 13-14 lands, and thats kinda what you need to do to, otherwise you will just flood. Ofc if you are in 2 colors, that means you risk not finding your first plains, or your second land drop. If you play the more normal 16-17 land deck, Hunter in multiples could get you into trouble. It lines up well vs 3/1s but so do a bunch of other cards (1/1 tokens and such) so they generally push out 3/1s out of the format. It can be good in sacrifice decks, where in combination with other cards becomes a draw 2 for 2 mana (fundamentally different from replacing itself) or you could have some crazy cat deck with Arahbo's and anthem/overrun effects. Its a nice chump blocker in a fliers deck that helps you win races. It has some uses, but it does not make decks good, it slots nicely into already strong decks. Its not a high pick for me anymore, I would take Dazzling Angel or Rebuke over it early in the draft.
Felidar sovereign lol definitely not what the card is called, is Ethan a commander player also? 👀
Algo
Love it fellas, thank you. You're analysis and banter is top notch. 🫡
Grain of salt as ive only just hit Platinum from bronze, but i can not stop drafting B/W. So many good cards. just grab the good cards, good removal and have the curve look stronk.