This is irrelevant but I don't know where else to put it or how to write in. Tonight I cried because I didn't know whether or not my faith was genuine or if my wicked heart had just assured me that it was, and I cried. I cried for a good long while. And I prayed for a good long while. And I put my head to the floor and I begged for a good long while. "Jesus, please, hold me and keep me for all eternity and never let me go." And finally, I asked, "Jesus, if you never grant me anything else, not even one more breath, Jesus, I beg You, grant me You." And for as long as I had cried, in that one moment I felt all the comfort I ever needed and I broke down and cried even harder.
SkyStorm Plays - I think the fact that you are going through this struggle speaks volumes. Only a Son/daughter of God would have a troubled spirit trying to discern if their salvation/relationship was genuine. If you were of the world, (not of God) you wouldn’t care. I recommend looking up a sermon here on YT by Paul Washer. He talks on the same topic: how to know you are saved. A few other pastors also speak on this topic but he’s the first one that comes to mind. But he goes over some scriptures that can give you the assurance you’re looking for. May God bless you with the peace your heart is longing for, my sibling in Christ.
@@drewbc32 I appreciate your comforting words, and I thank God for it. The last couple of days I haven't felt as troubled. I'll watch the video you recommended. I thank God for your comforting words, and I thank you, my brother or sister in Christ. May God bless and keep you for all eternity, and may you glorify Him in all things. In Jesus‘ perfect, wonderful, powerful name I pray, amen.
@@drewbc32 I am thankful not because of the inherent reassurance in what has been said, but for the fruit which is evidence of sanctification which is evidence of justification which is evidence that Christ is alive in me and that I am alive in Christ. I used to be addicted to pornography. And only by the sword of the spirit could the sin of my sexual immorality have been killed. I read the Word because I seek fellowship with God and because Scripture is the only way through which it can be attained. I can't just pray and ask for the Holy Spirit to reveal things to me because the Holy Spirit wrote a book. I hate my sin. I hate the sins of others. I love the Word of God. I love sinners and so I share the gospel with them in hopes that they would examine themselves, as is evident in one of my friends who would identify himself as belonging to a group of heretics who call themselves "Christian identity". He believes that he is saved but I fear for his soul as I feared for my own. And so when I thank God, I thank Him for reminding me that there is fruit. I appreciate the instrument, you, which God used to bring that to my attention.
But then... Is that my wicked heart deceiving me again? I know that Jesus Christ is Lord but the devil knows it too. I know that the day of judgment will come but the devil knows it too. And then, maybe it's just that I have a healthy amount of biblical fear but then there's that tightness in my chest and I think... Christ says, "my burden is light, and my yoke is easy". And though I don't worry about daily life and though daily life is easy, even when it's not... Do I worry too much for my soul? If the burden is light and the yoke is easy?
I've read that Martin Luther had the same thoughts as you are having. (But then again, I've had them too, and I know of a few Long standing Christians of 20 years or so that had them too) You must remember that Satan is "The Accuser of the Brethren." (Rev. 12:10) That also to ourselves, not just others. "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn. 3:16) We cannot get salvation due to ANYTHING we did. say or think. (Not that we shouldn't try to obey Gods word, and will for our lives ((Jms 2:18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.) as It is because we accepted The Betrayal, suffering, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of our sins. But, your love of God shows! It is said: Satan knows he can.t steal your salvation, but he can steal your joy. And that's what he's always after! Try desiringgod.org/article/the-devil-cannot-condemn-you it's a good little reading on the subject. Jesus Bless You!
Agree with Scripture and Pastor John. I've visited churches and if the Pastor has a wife, you call the wife "Pastor" as well. You don't call the Presidents wife "President", you call her the first lady, if you are a doctor and your wife is not you don't call the wife doctor either. So why would you consider calling a Pastor's wife the same if she is not?
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....". There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ. So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion? Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28. Ah. That is more like it! Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in. Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power. Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ. A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4. We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18. Out of His fullness we have received. Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus. As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay! Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You. Let's share the good news TOGETHER!
Good idea. "Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....". There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ. So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion? Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28. Ah. That is more like it! Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in. Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power. Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ. A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4. We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18. Out of His fullness we have received. Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus. As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay! Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You. Let's share the good news together!
This is a slippery slope for the church; Lucifer wanted to share a leadership title too. I personally would not belong to a church where everyone shared the title Pastor. As a congregation we should want to know the Pastor of the church is an educated, experienced and ordained man. This would be like hearing nurses in some hospitals will now be referred to as Dr. [...] Physicians work hard to earn their degree, we have no issue acknowledging that, and addressing them as Dr. Jane Doe. So why would we not honor a man, with a calling, chosen by God, who is educated, and ordained, in the church with his own title as Pastor? As part of a congregation, I personally have that need to be under that kind of leadership. The Bible is also very clear, women are not to lead a church. As a woman, if I find this offensive, I have been offended by the one who created me. To serve in a community under a respectful leader, should not be offensive.
Loved your first point about Lucifer. Regarding what you said about pastors education, I'm not sure I agree. It seems that many great men of the Bible weren't educated. So I'm not sure that is an issue. Thanks for your comment.
Jeremy Wheeler I completely agree! Many of our greatest leaders are called by God with no education. I was trying to point out many do carry a degree and not only had the calling but the education as well. I had men like Dr. Charles Stanley in mind.
Many men took that calling, just like a doctor does and worked hard to earn a degree. I think so many people want a title without the effort. It’s called pride
I John 2:27, "The Anointing which you have received of Him abides inside you, and you need not that any man teach you, but as the anointing teaches you all things, so remain in it."
Correct. We need to go into the Greek language in order to find out how Paul used the terms: elder, pastor, bishop, shepherd, and overseer. One thing to point out is that while some denominations and churches distinguish between the terms elder, pastor, bishop, shepherd, and overseer, the Bible uses those terms interchangeably to refer to one office-the office of pastor. So, when we talk about an elder, pastor or shepherd, we are talking about the same office. - In the NT there are 18 Occurrences for the Greek word ποιμήν (poimén) = Pastor/Shepherd - In the NT there are 66 Occurrences for the Greek word πρεσβύτερος (presbuteros) = Elder - In the NT there are 4 Occurrences for the Greek word ἐπισκοπή (episkopé) = Overseership - In the NT there are 5 Occurrences for the Greek word ἐπίσκοπος (episkopos) = Overseer/Bishop One clear example of how these terms are used interchangeably is in Acts 20:17, where Paul “called the elders of the church to come to him” (Acts 20:17). At the end of Paul’s farewell discourse, he said, “Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood” (Acts 20:28). In this one passage, Paul used the terms elder and overseers interchangeably because they mean and refer to the same thing-a pastor. Numerous other examples prove this point (Titus 1:5,7; 1 Peter 5:1-2). This is essential groundwork for the discussion because as we turn to Paul’s first letter to Timothy and look at the qualifications for an overseer (1st Timothy 3:1-7), we know we’re looking at the office of pastor, bishop, and shepherd.
A pastor should know what the Bible teaches and abide by it and preach it faithfully. If a woman is taught in the scripture, she would know that a woman cannot become a Pastor as she may not take authority over a man or teach men. If she does not know or agree with the scriptures, then she would not be fit to be a pastor anyway.
Heaven forbid all the men Ive talked to in the street and told them ( taught them) about Christ and watched them accept Him as Savior--Since no male had attended to them at their late ages of 50plus yrs of age.
I don't wanna respark an old debate from 3 years ago but I just stumbled across this. My reply; What of the 7 women Paul greets, thanks and gives title to in Romans 16:1-15 Notably Phoebe at verse 1 who's called a deacon in many modern translations and Prisca whom in verse 3 is mentioned prior to her husband Aquila (likely as she's the Pastor referenced down in verse 5.)
It’s confusing when I’m searching for a church and see a banner for the pastors and they name a female as the pastor. As women we definitely have roles in the church. But actual pastor over a whole church on a regular basis seems to go against the Bible.
I am convinced. I was more posing it as a question for others to think about. But your tone sounds kinda angry. God doesn’t want his people arguing. Topics like this people can get really nasty about which isn’t a good look. It really doesn’t matter what anyone says let’s just go to God ourselves for clarification if needed.
My question is why the need to have a title attached the beginning part of your name? Not in the sense that position doesn't matter but in the sense that one would feel they have to be called "Pastor" I recall Jesus being called the good shepherd and he attributed that only to God. I honestly feel that if you are seeking the title of "Pastor" and feel you are not complete without being given the title of "Pastor" it is quite possible you are not ready for a leadership role and need to get the heart submitted to God
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:10-11 KJV bible.com/bible/1/rev.4.10-11.KJV
Kudos to you!!! Names and titles are a huge detriment to the living church. Jesus avoided names and titles constantly. He even aggressively challenged any name people gave him. Someone who is wise would never allow themselves to be referred to that way. Why? Because it requires two or more interpretations of the name or title to be agreed upon. That’s very rare at best. Then there’s the problems of intent, function, purpose, responsibility, expectations, pride, definition, etc.etc. that people demand of someone with such an “important” title. Jesus even refused to define the word...”truth”...at the point where doing so may have saved his life. And the title of “Christian” has been so used and abused that it is virtually useless. It can mean anything to anyone for any reason. It needs to go! It’s little more than a defensive shield that people hide behind so that they don’t have to account for themselves or be transparent to others. There’s much more to say about this but just remember....fools love names and titles while the wise reject them as useless forms of identity. Again...kudos!...no..double kudos!! To you!
No, you misinterpreted this particular scripture! "Women" in this scripture, does not mean actually females. At the time, a man's "manhood" was insulted when called or considered, "effeminate" or childlike hence the first part of this scripture that refers to a "child". No where does the verse say anything about "men representing GOD, women represent the church". margmowczko.com/isaiah-3_12-women-leaders/
@- Tomahawk - Always refer back to scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you the "why" Reading the bible like a book is a dangerous game. Men have authority and other domains women do too. This isn't a competition, we all work together for the kingdom of GOD, not our ourselves. Let's edify each other in the fullness of GOD's part, not just take bits and parts to fit a divided agenda. GOD bless!
@@nikhefe16 Don't allow pride to harden your heart to truth. Women are to not lead in the church and to be subject to their husbands. It is written how many times through out the New Testament? Please, if what you hear in your heart does not align with the word of God which is to make you wise for salvation, then it is not from God. There is nothing wrong with servitude and humility. In fact, Jesus took those very positions. You should read the Bible like the little library it is, book to book and not bits and pieces of scripture here and there.
@@Progamerjay100 Women are definitely allowed to teach other women and children in the church, correct? The problem is that too many of us do not read the context of the scripture reading without understanding. Why did Paul tell that particular church that women should be quiet and should report to their husbands? We are on the same page we want all to make it to heaven! But GOD's Spirit was poured on all flesh to operate in their gifts. This video is about whether women can be pastors not whether or not they can teach and minister. You have got to share the scriptures with me about women not being allowed to teach and minister in the church. This isn't about pride or lack of humility, but inquiring about the Truth of the gospel in the midst of a culture during the time of Old, that saw women as 2nd class citizens. We are learning here, but I don't want what you're saying to be a cop out to digging deep into scripture. So please share the scriptures that tell the church that women cannot minister and teach!
Excellent Dissertation and scriptural founded! The world and unbiblically founded churches want to change the truth of God's word and allow female pastors which is contrary to the biblical intent and authority thereof.
Women have proven time and time again that they can excel in leadership roles and showcase their intelligence. Intelligence knows no gender boundaries, and it's wonderful to see women breaking stereotypes and making significant contributions in various fields. In 1 Corinthians 12:4-6, it is written, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone." This verse emphasizes that God gifts both men and women with different abilities and talents, making them equally capable of serving as leaders and elders in the congregation .
It really sounds like the modern church invented a hierarchical title and is using that terminology to read back prohibitions into the scripture. Doesn't the teaching of the Nicolaitans mean overcoming the laity? Weren't people surprised at the mature teaching of the Apostles BECAUSE they were laymen? The reality is that judges in the old testament were called shepherds (see 2 Samuel 7:7) and Deborah was a judge who clearly had authority from God to guide those in leadership.
I'm a woman and I agree, but I wanna ask, say I am going through a problem and I really need to talk about it to a trusted elder, but I feel the pastor or elder is better equipped to counsel me than a female leader, should I go to the pastor (assuming they counsel me with their wife beside them) instead of the female leader?
“Highly misleading”. Yes, i.e. lying I really appreciate that Pastor John goes into the great detail explaining the words, and the Biblical meanings. Yes, the short answer is NO. But he helps us think it through and have the information to defend the Scriptures.
Pastor John is being VERY gracious with his word usage. But if he is correct in his assessment, then those who he is speaking against are more then “mislead”, they’re straight up WRONG.
Damian Martinez Yes agreed, very much deceived, we live in a culture where everyone wants to re-define everything for themselves, around themselves. Ironically their autonomous epistemology fits perfectly within the pushed narrative of a very secularizing society, one that is in utter rebellion to the Word of God(like America rn). They REFUSE to allow the Scripture to define itself in matters of faith and godliness, but finesse their desired meaning from it. The Scriptures are clear, they just don’t like what it says.
@Damian Martinez Read the book of Matthews. Jesus tells the Pharisees that they do well when they tithe 10 percent. Tithing is biblical and another act of worship to God.
I'm certain this goes beyond the church buildings. Families are being torn apart by these women that go against God and men. I am so happy to be single and in faith with Jesus Christ and the Almighty Heavenly Father. If the lord so blesses me with a woman of same faith I would truly be blessed and forever thankful as I already am more so of course but if not I will live the remaining days I have a single man raising a son from a past broken relationship into faith without a partner for myself. I will go the rest of my life if that's how it will be.
MineCraftDadnSon I detect a longing in what you say. If you “burn” for a companion then go get one. If you don’t, your mind will always be occupied with the desire for one.
Mr. C I'm working on me not really interested in trying to find a wife and at same time trying to live guided by spirit so if it comes it comes like I said if I'm blessed I'm blessed. I am a man and would love to be loved but I have lived a selfish life for many many years. Perhaps in what I first stated it comes from a woman... I am heartbroken in a way... I would love to be with a wife and be glory to God about it all... I may burn for it at times when I feel lonely of companionship but I am still working things out for my own spirit and minds understanding. I the odd time think about seeing a woman that I fall in love with but I don't have much desire for it as I have my own spirit I'm fighting for and finding a woman of God seems quite uh difficult to begin with and I'm still healing from my past way of life and relationship with my son's mother.
Summary attempt: in our day and age, "pastor" should be reserved for elders/overseers. If you're in a formal role at your church, maybe in charge of small groups, men's and/or women's ministry, but your elders/church is not inclined to install you as an elder, then they shouldn't call you a "pastor" either. - what's the best alternative? Minister? Deacon? Director? Should we scrap the term pastor altogether and just call each other brother, sister or elder where appropriate? I have encountered a lot more widely varried secular and church opinion on what this title means compared to what Piper suggests (mine is an Australian context).
Agreed that even using the word "Pastor" is misleading and unbiblical. The terms brother and sister are more appropriate. The Lord taught not to be called leader. Elders do have a overseeing and shepherding role that is recognized, and deacons have roles to lead the logistical serving, but they should not be taking a title that causes a clergy laity division when the NT does not have one.
Problem, is that the Babylonian churches, ( protestant, catholic ) have created this false role of the professional preacher celebrity pastor / priest in a pulpit, an absolute desecration of the biblical church, which is a body of believers, where the ' leaders' are servants
Depends on what people think is meant by the word "pastor". Qualification on this helps you to know whether it's yes or no. Having witnessed the debate within the Church of England about women being ordained bishops, I would agree with John Piper here.
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....". There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ. So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion? Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28. Ah. That is more like it! Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in. Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power. Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ. A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4. We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18. Out of His fullness we have received. Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus. As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay! Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You. Let's share the good news together!
The word of God is true and if we say it’s true and believe it’s true, then it is what it is. This subject is not debatable. It is quite clear what the apostle Paul had written if the Holy Spirit did not want to revealed this apostle Paul, then he wouldn’t have said it… see people forget we serve an ancient God, we should not deviate or accommodate… THIS IS THE WORD GOD
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore a Judge could execute a man. Any doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did is a false doctrine, and must be rejected.
Question! So GOD had called me into leading a campus ministry on my college campus as president. I led for 3 years in obedience to His will (even though I rebelled a lot lolz), but I taught men and women believers and unbelievers about Jesus, led prayer sessions, trained leaders, did outreach events, and also invited male pastors to come teach the Word! I would always tell people that I am not a Pastor when I found that people would come to me regularly for spiritual guidance, as I do not occupy that spiritual office! However, the Lord still tasked me with teaching the Word, how to read it, and in that how to lead people to faith. With all of this being said, what actually differentiates me as a minister (kind of like Joyce Meyer, just not on a international level ahaha) vs a Pastor, if GOD had placed me in charge of His flock in campus ministry?
Omo A. I love this question. I led a campus ministry myself as an undergrad and was met by some pushback from some male Christian friends. At what point does ministering/ leading a group of people in the faith become “pastoring”? If women aren’t called to lead, then when is that line drawn? Just when men are present?
I have so many questions about the theology of women in leadership, questions for those who approve of it, but mostly for those who don't. The main question I keep coming back to is what about Deborah? She led Israel under the old covenant. What about all the female prophets named in the bible? How then can anyone argue that a woman can't hold one of the five-fold offices (including teacher), let alone operate in those giftings without holding an office? And in 1 Timothy 2, Paul says he doesn't permit a woman to teach or hold authority over a man, and in the very next chapter gives the qualifications of overseers and deacons. He says for both, they should be the husband of one wife. But then in Romans 16:1, he names Pheobe as a deacon (same Greek word). So either he's contradicting himself, or we're not properly understanding what he's saying in 1 Timothy.
You...yourself said “I am not a Pastor.” If God wanted you to be a Pastor you would have known that and called yourself that. You don’t have to go to theology school and get a degree to have the title only God can give.
Are you being fed the Word there? Is your pastor producing good fruit, the fruit of the Spirit spoken of in Galatians 5? Instead of asking us, why don't you spend some time with Holy Spirit and see what He has to say about it?
Ποιμένας is the Pastor and shephard in Greek . Pronounced "Pimenas". There is no other word for it. Funny though, as Greek language is so rich in words!
Husbands are required to shepherd (pastor) their wives and children. Regarding society (governance and job roles) Piper isn't specific in RBMW from memory, although i _think_ he would say the leadership in secular roles should also be typically male.
He was just saying, as someone who is complementarian, it’s application extends further then just its usage in ecclesiastical offices (elders and pastors) that he’s addressing in the video. But in the home, men are call to “love their wife as Christ loves the church”, women are called to “submit to their husband as into the lord” and their roles in their marital relationship ARE NOT to be conflated with one another and are distinct purposefully and gloriously.
A look at the comments can tell you that some people don't read their Bibles, and if they do, maybe bits and pieces here and there while picking and choosing what to believe. No wonder this world is falling apart. Without the Sword of the Spirit, how may we prevail against the attacks of the enemy. We are no good in furthering the kingdom of God if we ourselves aren't even edified.
Kierra Uniq Jesus Said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". Nobody is listening to Jesus. Men nor women should be teaching anybody. Jesus is our Teacher. People listening to people. You are all falling in the ditch.
@@kathleenwharton2139 I guess the book of Timothy is pretty pointless then huh? Where Paul says to preach the Word.... 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine
z1g7ag If you believe and follow Jesus..it is pointless. I don't follow Paul. I follow Jesus. And if a man wants to teach anything he should at least teach what Jesus told him to teach..Not men's opinions.
@@kathleenwharton2139 Um.... You know Jesus didn't personally write the Gospels while He was on earth right? So if you only follow what is written in the Gospels, then you are following the teachings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. By your logic, all scripture is corrupt because it is written by man. Can you please show in the Bible where it says to only follow what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote down? Unless you use scripture to backup what you are saying, then you are saying your own opinion and you need to repent. Matthew 23:8-10 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. The Jewish rabbis were also called father and master, by their several disciples, whom they required, To believe implicitly what they affirmed, without asking any farther reason; To obey implicitly what they enjoined, without seeking farther authority. Our Lord, therefore, by forbidding us either to give or receive the title of rabbi, master, or father, forbids us either to receive any such reverence, or to pay any such to any but God.
z1g7ag Bible people are hilarious! If I quote Paul..the Bible is infallible! But if I quote Jesus..suddenly the Bible becomes fallible. I believe Jesus Words in Matthew 5 6 7. it is not that hard.
Yes, if a woman is serving in that capacity then she should hold that title; but with the caveat that is explained below: James 3:1-2 New Century Version Controlling the Things We Say 3 My brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all make many mistakes. If people never said anything wrong, they would be perfect and able to control their entire selves, too. God Bless.
God's word says let the woman not preach or teach or asurb authority over the man she is to remain silent in the churches If she has a question let her ask her husband at home! God's word also said God created man and he latter created him a help meet which is the woman. God's word also says the MAN IS THE HEAD!!! Anyone that goes against God's word or disputes one word is an atheist and is calling God a liar.
The strong identification to temporal gender roles is of the earthly ego. Our heavenly bodies will have no gender. I get the sense a lot of the dogmatic policing of gender roles is based on an either conscious or subconscious belief that men are superior to women and has more to do with reinforcing that view than about adherence to God's law.
@@myrtletree8575 see there you go trying to dispute what the God of the universe Said and set forth. We're not talkin about what our heavenly Bodies will look like we're talking about what God Said and what his place for the woman is. I didn't say anything about the man being superior to the women I said the truth according to God's word that the man is the head of the woman point blank. It is in fact the women all over this country thats causing all this confusion they do not want to accept their God-given positions. If you have anything to dispute take it to God he made the rules you take it for what you will it dosent matter. Every last out of her place woman past present and future is going to answer the God for your rebellion. Further than that do you know that the woman is actually supposed to address the man as Lord? Look it up, do your research. Nothing is about what we want, it's about what God Said, accepted it or not.
Omg....we need to understand the context of that scripture. There was a reason why different letters were sent to DIFFERENT churches! It was never meant to be one size fits all. If your church is lacking in one area, you draw from the Scripture to correct/mend it. GOD constantly used men and women in the Old Testament and even use women in the same capacity in the New to oversee both men and women, in which BOTH parties had to submit to. To suggest otherwise, is to make GOD to be a liar, a mere man full of contradiction and err. The issue isn't whether or not women are allowed or should lead, it is about context, hence why the discussion video focuses on the issue or title and responsibilities of a pastor, not a questioning of how GOD has poured His Spirit upon the flesh of both young men and women (Acts 2) to fulfill the assignment of spreading the good news. What you are spreading is legalism, and we need to be careful that as we enter the Word that we aren't doing so with a heart conditioned already from societal lies, based on gender, or preconceived notions reading the Word without the leading of the Holy Spirit to teach us the Truth. HUSBANDS are the head over their households and men have certain duties, but it does not nor will it ever negate women in spiritual leadership the Lord has placed over both men and women to submit. We need to be careful not to spread falsehood for it can severely damaged the body of Christ and I refuse to stand in the way of what GOD is doing through people in accordance to his Word. Remain blessed, we need each other on this journey!
I have no issue with men taking most of the leadership roles but only a weak leader would fail to pragmatically use the gifts and talents of women within the church who desire to serve the Lord. I just think some Christians use legalism to mask their own prejudices instead of focusing on what really matters.
I don’t think lead Pastor is biblical though. It doesn’t matter how things are done these days. If they aren’t biblical they are wrong. Lead pastor is possibly man made.
Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected daughters of Almighty God:. ...... "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" 1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV) That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is. And again we plainly see: "As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are *not allowed to speak*" *[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "But must be in *submission, as the Law says." *[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience (obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." *[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command" 1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV) Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ? So again that is the TRUTH arrogant rebellious feminists may not like it, but there it is. Any feministic attempt at deviation is against the Truth and the commandment of the Lord.
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....". There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ. So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion? Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28. Ah. That is more like it! Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in. Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power. Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ. A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4. We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18. Out of His fullness we have received. Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus. As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay! Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You. Let's share the good news together!
@@ToninoterRessort No one can having Christ as their master, revoke the Lord's commandment for women to remain "SILENT" in all church assemblies. Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected daughters of Almighty God:. ...... "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" 1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV) That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is. And again we plainly see: "As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are *not allowed to speak*" *[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "But must be in *submission, as the Law says." *[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience (obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." *[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command" 1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV) Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ? So again that is the TRUTH arrogant rebellious feminists may not like it, but there it is. Any feminist attempt at deviation is against the Truth and the commandment of the Lord.
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 earnestly huh. You poke out your eye, sell all your goods, cut of your hand, burry yourself, for you do not keep the whole law! My friend learn it is all about becomming love by Holy Spirit. You cut of 50% of mankind to spread the word. Learn love. Stop hairsplitting.
@@ToninoterRessort You are knowingly and falsely accusing the wrong person. It is the Divinely approved "Teacher of the Gentiles" you re rebuking....So you really should be very "Ashamed" of yourself. Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected daughters of Almighty God:. ...... "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" 1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV) That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is. And again we plainly see: "As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are *not allowed to speak*" *[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "But must be in *submission, as the Law says." *[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience (obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] "35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." *[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary] 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command" 1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV) Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ? I guess not!
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 Again: "......as the law sayeth" supossedly comming out of the mouth of Paul is completely hilarious. Paul would never refer to the law because he understood the law kills, the Spirit brings Zoë- life. The law has been taken out of the equation. The law in itself is good but served another purpose. Now we live under "the law" of the Spirit of life. Completely different. Don't poison the bread of life with law again. It is common knowledge that the bible was influenced by churchfathers back in 300 AD. You have to live by the Spirit to discern. Paul quoting law is complete idiocy. It is to obvious. Furthermore love and transformation into the image of God sets the pace 2:Cor 3:18. Cutting of 50% of the body of Christ is crazyness. Finished. Bless you.
Why would this matter? If your daughter is saved, she is saved by faith, not by baptism. Baptism is simply a public declaration, not salvation. Baptism can be performed by anyone, not just men.
You can’t baptize a child. You can only commit them to the Lord. Like you promise to bring them to church and teach the way of the Lord. When she is old enough to know and choose, then she can be baptized unto the salvation of her soul.
It doesn’t matter what gender baptizes... Anyone can baptize...Whst matters is test the proper form us followed. Thst is... “ In the name of the Fathet, theSon, and the Holy Spirit”.
i have no problem with women not being pastors, I do have a problem with men using this as an excuse to be misogynistic. Same thing with the wife being submissive to their husbands. Have no issue, but do have the issue of the abuse of power.
I am a married woman and see submission as a beautiful way to serve, help and love my husband. An employee has to submit to their manager but that isn't seen as abuse. A child has to submit to their parents. And children of God need to submit to Christ. And it is written several times through out the Bible that wives must submit to their husbands. But rest assured, it is also written that husbands are to love their wives as themselves, caring for them like their own body and not to be harsh with them. We are to respect them as leaders of the family. Not everyone can lead, some need to follow. Order brings unity, not division.
MouseCrusader No person Shoud be submitting to another person and neither man nor woman should be teaching anyone. Jesus Said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". The Only One anyone should be submitting themselves to is God HimSelf. Jesus has invited you to have personal relationship with Him. Why on earth do you want to listen to some man or woman spout their Nonsence?
Kierra Uniq Jesus said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". Jesus offers personal relationship with each of us who seek Him. We should not be submitting ourselves to any man or woman not them teaching us either. You may have lucked out..but believe me..many woman Suffer because of that damnable bible verse of Paul's making.
@@kathleenwharton2139 God himself put man as the head of the household. He clearly have a good intention to do so. Not for the wife to place her husband as an idol, or to have her husband be a replacement for Christ, but as a form of covering for her, and a leader for the family. Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church. So no, submission isn't necessarily a bad thing. You submit to your boss. Children submit to their parents, etc. the real issue is when this system is being abused for the sake of power, or to exasperate idolatry. If the husband steps out of God's will, and live in sin, the wife is not obligated to follow his sinful actions, because she is submitted to Christ first.
Exactly. Avoiding terms, labelling movements ("complimentarians") simply leads to a re-writing of the meaning of those terms, or else the use of another in its place. The goal is always to arrive at a position where women are in public leadership ministry in Churches, but do so under an evangelical/reformed banner. It's wrong.
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Reply for it if desired. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. That is how a woman could judge men of their sins, including homicide. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles. To say a woman can be a Judge over Israel, but a woman can't be an elder in a small church, just doesn't make any sense scripturally.
@@2ndexodusmove Taken from my short essay: A Judge at this time, was VERY different from a judge in our time. The Judge was over the nation of Israel. But not as a man, as King, or as a woman, as Queen, because God was not rejected as King as yet. God ruled Israel through the Judges. Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... [PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour, from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.] In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Also: Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet
@@8784-l3b 2 Tim 2:11-15.....Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
@@2ndexodusmove I did not get a notification of this post. Sorry for the delay. A Judge could judge homicide cases, according to scripture. Therefore a Judge could execute a man for the sin of premeditated murder. A Judge was REQUIRED to judge only the hardest cases. People can talk about Eve, but God made Deborah a Judge. My short and free essay covers all this, should anyone need a study.
Pastor John, as a woman I feel so sad about what the bible says about female leaders. I know Eve has sinned and was cursed to obey men, but my ill soul feels as if God is giving another candy to men and he doesn't allow women to have one. God is good, and I know his ways are different than my short opinion, but I cannot help myself but feel so unimportant. In the modern world where people say men and women are equal, I cannot understand why men can have something that women cannot have. Anyone who is reading this comment, please pray for me to reconcile to God.
Hi Kayoun! Men and women can be equal and different at the same time. The Bible teaches that they are equal in value (Galatians 3:28, 1 Corinthians 11:12) but created with different responsibilities. Praying that you are able to see the beauty in the differences and know that God has ordained them for our good!
He answered it at the end when he said (I’m paraphrasing) “in trying to be accurate with the title pastor, and have a clearer perspective they doing the opposite by giving the title “pastor” to a woman”. (His other points) reason 1 because their are no woman pastors in the NT. 2 the word pastor in our church setting is one given to the head of a church, having a woman with it would be contradictory even if she is not the leader, in that case even more so. 3 if their trying to actually be accurate a woman’s title could be elder, leader etc. I hope that helped 🤷🏽♂️
There are no such things as LEADERS in the church but only SERVANTS. Christ never called himself a leader nor did Christ even come out and directly say "I am the son of God" Why? Because its ARROGANT and PUFFED UP and PRIDEFUL. He just let others PERCIEVE HIS POSITION THROUGH HIS SERVICE TO HUMANITY. Every Christian should behave in this way and we might have a chance of surviving this next century.
Sally Ironic The whole PRIDE thing..of one man leading another is purely of the Devil. We are ALL to submit ourselves to God..as Jesus did..Not to each other. I suffered very much in my life submitting myself to the titled men in a Church. This is of the Devil. Thank You! One person on Here..gets it!
I think using the term 'complimentarianism' is causing some of the problems in the modern Church. It isn't helpful - and in my experience here in the UK - has been used with a very broad brush. For example, our local evangelical Anglican parish state that they are "complimentarians", whilst allowing women to teach, preach, serve the eucharist, and take positions of authority. I wouldn't call that "complementarianism" at the best of times. But that's what they have co-opted in order to justify a very liberal position on shepherding. I take the point on the term "pastor", but again, this would tend to just mean that Churches will avoid the label and not address the point: women in public leadership in Churches.
Complementarianism That false and confusing teaching, that states Christian women are less than Christian men in a spiritual way, but they really aren't, but they really are. The complementarian teaching prohibits a Christian woman from holding certain positions in a church. They can't be elders neither can they teach men. So why is that? The false teaching makes it clear that the priesthood of the New Covenant is tiered. There is a hierarchy. Those that are higher, the men, can be in leadership positions, like elder. They can teach other men. Those in the lower tier can not be in leadership positions, like elder. They are prohibited from teaching men, because the men are in the higher tier. It wouldn't make any sense. A new believer is automatically assigned their level, higher or lower, at the moment of salvation, as a birthright. Their gender determines their tier. A Christian can not move to a higher or lower tier. A Christian that is in the lower tier (woman) is not allowed to complain of the tier she was placed in. That would be sin, because God made her a woman by His choice. She should accept and also embrace her position in the lower tier. A church, is either a group of Christian men or a group of Christian men and women. A church can never be a group of Christian women, because it would be a group of only those in the lower tier. It would have no elders. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. -excerpt 1 Peter 2 Since the teaching states that women are spiritually inferior to men, but they aren't, but they are, when did that start? But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer. -excerpt 1 Timothy 2 It started with the first woman. She was deceived, and sinned because of it. So we have a teaching that accepts that men and women are fallen beings. Both genders are sinful by nature. However women are different. They are lacking the ability that men have to judge if some situation, some concept or teaching is sinful. This inability was passed down from Eve to all women. It remains to this day. A woman in our time was 'lacking' from birth, even from the womb. So what can be done? Nothing according to Complementarianism. That is because an anointing of that powerful masculine being called the Holy Spirit, is just not sufficient. Even the Holy Spirit can not elevate even one Christian woman to the spiritually superior level of a Christian man.
Careful study of the scripture will show that the role of "Pastor" is limited to men: So why are we seeing so many “women pastors” these days? I believe there’s a lot of ignorance in what calls itself a church these days - ignorance of the word of God… Also, we are in a time when there is a spirit of rebellion in both the world and what calls itself "the church"… In some of these cases I think there is a spirit of “fear and approval” on the senior pastor or senior leadership of the church (Men in leadership roles who fear the approval of their wives) The Pastor’s wife definitely has opportunities for ministry as a godly woman should - She can teach the younger women and be used in evangelism and counseling sisters in the church, prayer ministry, miracles, helps, prophecy, mercy, and children’s ministry, etc But this does not give her the title of “Pastor” or any other role that that would encompass leadership over men in the church in any way She may help her husband with finances, but this does not give her a pastoral role She may help in the “administration”, but a church is not a worldly corporation and does not have C Level executives There is no such thing identified in scripture as an “Executive Pastor” for example A Pastor is a Shepard of the flock, He has a God given anointing and a tremendous responsibility and accountability before God Too many so called “Pastors” of today are not even “God called” to that role and they don’t have the anointing and have no clue of their responsibility before God There are plenty of opportunities for women, (and men), for ministry - but you don’t get to be a Pastor because you choose to be The role of a Pastor is a gift of God to the church, and He appoints those He has called to this role and there is a tremendous weight of responsibility that goes with it. To just flippantly use the title for those who serve in other ways in the church is a misuse and misunderstanding of the gravity of God’s call. To name the Pastor’s wife as a Pastor in the church is a misunderstanding of scripture and a deception that can lead to other problems in the church Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said in his instructions for the church: I do not allow a a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man… ( 2 Tim 2:12 ) The role of a Pastor comes with an authority over men in the church A woman who assumes that authority is in rebellion to the Word of God, and this invites the activities of evil spirits www.bibleword.com/wwsnbp.htm
Paul always mentions elders. A church is to have elders so not one man has control and if the pastor is rebuked or w.e you goto the elders and treat them like fathers. I have no idea really I'm still learning about it.
They play same role because In Early Church ELDERS were the ones to lead and feed the Church of God so it is with Bishops, Pastors, Presbyter and Overseer. ✓Glory to God Almighty Forever
My stance..please read till the end: Generally, anyone can teach anyone Col 3:16..but when it comes to mentoring, let a woman mentor another woman. and let man mentor another man..Titus 2:1-6......as a couple such as Aquila and Priscilla, can mentor a single person(Apollos) or mentor other couples. Roman 16 says that the gentile churches are grateful to Priscilla and Aquila..When it comes to being a pastor/deacon/overseer of a church, it is the responsibility of a married man(according to 1 Timothy 3) and not a woman. I also think that even Paul can't be a pastor of a church because he is either unmarried or widower..but he was preaching outside the church where he stayed (Acts 28:30-31)...I believe a woman can also preach or teach outside the church just like Paul did..examples four unmarried daughters who were prophetess in book of acts, Anna in Luke, Deborah in judges 4...a note: though Deborah name is not mentioned in the NT, Barak name is mentioned in the Hebrews 11..Barak is identified only with Deborah in chapters 4 and 5 of Judges...If one has to explain about Barak in Hebrews 11, they can not ignore Deborah..moreover even Rahab's name is mentioned about in Hebrews and James....in 1 Peter 3, women are said to take the examples of the past "women"(plural). Sarah is one such woman...what about Deborah,Huldah, Anna?....moreover Roman 16 says that Phoebe is a servant of a church...another translation says Phoebe is a deaconess.......I have couple of questions. Does prohibitions in 1 Cor 11, 1 Cor 14, 1 Timothy 2 addresses only married couples or women and men in general???because as for as my perception, the context implies married couples only(with respect to Adam and Eve)
Names and titles are rarely profitable. That’s how dogmatic judgements get started. “Christian “ is a prime example. That handle has been so used and abused that it is virtually useless. “I’m a Christian”....is practically an insult and is cause for judgement and all types of interpretations pertaining to the claim maker. Any name or title must be accompanied by actions that confirm the title. Even that is no guarantee of the authenticity of the recipient or the user. If someone is truly wise, they would never refer to themselves as such. Even if someone else refers to them that way, they are going to be questioned as to what that name or title means not just to one but both parties. Jesus was no different...when people called him “good teacher” he quickly corrected them. When people pointed out his brothers or other family members he again corrected them. Jesus was obviously opposed to names and titles. Piper loves them! This is just one way to identify the authenticity of who someone says they are.
Unfortunately there has been some confusion between a spiritual gifting and a role or office within the church. Pastors, otherwise referred to as "shepherd teachers" in Ephesians 4 are not necessarily seen as a role but as a spiritual gifting from the Holy Spirit which Jesus poured out on the church (Acts 2). The Spirit is said to be given to both males and females (Joel 2) so there is no distinction in who can receive these gifts. The office of overseer or elder within the church (1 TIm 3) is specifically spoken of to apply to males in context...but only with the same qualifications given to female leaders within the next few chapters. The role of elder or overseer is not equatable with the pastoral or teaching gift. The Scriptures do not teach that along with pastors or teachers or evangelists, prophets, etc that the Spirit also gives overseers or elders since those roles are roles, not gifts. Furthermore, Paul would be invalidating his own teaching (if the understanding we are using was what he meant) as he permits prophets to speak in the name of the Lord to the rest of the church (1 Cor 14)- we learn that some of these are women later on in Acts who address the church. I propose we return to the Scriptural way of defining, interpretting, and speaking about these roles and spiritual giftings. Women and men can and have been evangelists, shepherds, teachers, apostles (not the office or role), and prophets (not the office or role) throughout the book of Acts and later Church history up unto the moment. Lastly, the reason why I post this comment (as I never do) is because teaching like this has marred God's glory for centuriers. I love John and believe him to be wiser and smarter than most, but men are fallible and able to misunderstand the Scriptures. God gives us the Spirit so we can glorify Him. When we operate in these giftings He gets more glory. I want any woman to know that the Scriptures testify to this truth: women can, should, and will continue to be God glorifying pastors, leaders, preachers and etc. Do not be afraid to operate in the power of the Spirit because of men- May God bless you all as you continue to discuss this matter and may God get the rightful glory that He deserves- through both the men and the women He has seen fit to be pastors and equip His church so that we all may attain to the full stature of maturity in Christ.
You have to use scripture to back up your claim otherwise it is pointless babble. You use the clear to understand the unclear. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Oh boy. I absolutely love this Word. And I have no doubt God spoke with me. I would love to teach His Word, truth be told it WAS my dream until I saw...I SUFFER and it was finished. So if I touch this it would be Evening teacher. He said take notice of Joyce Myers jokers smile. There are subjects that need the authority of a man to back. Rods of iron are heavy. Eve and it would be sickening.
Not relevant in today's religous climate .having bibles and ability To read and not involved with churches the question is academic! However the infallibility of the Holy Spirit will guide and teach Without any pastors male and female So many denominations and different interpretations of scripture!
People have selective hearing at not one instance he said that women cannot be pastors. I believe that is what the real question was. He answered the question asked not the "real" question I believe this person was asking. God has poured his spirit on all flesh so I believe that by the Spirit women can be:(1) apostles, (2) prophets, (3) evangelists, (4) pastors (shepherds), and (5) teachers. When I read Acts 10, I believe that God did not just refer to gentiles to women. We need to stop calling impure what God is calling pure. We are under a new covenant, the fundamental of that covenant has not changed but the traditions of the covenant have greatly changed let not be deceived by the traditions and miss when God is speaking to us.
ihavetubes You are Right. It is Pride. No man or woman should be called pastor. Jesus is Your Only True Teacher! Jesus said it. "Let no man be called rabbi.". They are usurping Gods Place in your life. I paid a great price listening to men and women. Hard lesson learned.
@@kathleenwharton2139 yes many buildings where people go that they call church is a disaster zone far as respecting the Word of God. I cannot even find a believer to baptize me!!! I am going Sunday with my son to hopefully get baptized but apparently they have need of me to JOIN and declare some pact with the church... Is it in the bible that I have to join or sign my name or do anything beyond faith and love for Jesus? I will find out Sunday!
MineCraftDadnSon I have much experience with church. My experience is that they are a pack of wolves. After suffering long with them..this is what I finally did. I Sought Jesus. He brought me the bible He wanted me to Read and Helped me Read it. He showed me the bible verses for me and those are the ones I read. Gospel of Matthew chapters 5 6 7 is the entire Foundation. I study those chapters and Seek Jesus Help and it Saved me from all the Christian wolves. You and your son Are a Church! Seek Jesus Together! I Woud strongly advise you to leave the wolves alone.
@@daughterofzion.4592 Not in the Church. They were temporary leaders of a people group. They were also aberrations in an otherwise patriarchal society.
@@daughterofzion.4592 Not true at all. I said, "Not in the Church". Where was Deborah when war was a very real eventuality? Try much harder please (or ask your husband at home).
It is Up to Her What She want Her Members to Call Her as Christians Leader.Do you Think GOD in Christ the CREATOR is Angry to Her because She made Herself as Pastor in the Church? Probably,GOD the CREATOR Loves Her because She Preach About HIM in the Church.
Women can testify gospel. Women can serve the Lord. Women ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAD the flock. Bible says clearly about it. Stop justifying your preference that is set AGAINST the bible.
Why is Pastor John beating around the bush with this believer? The Bible is very clear that women cannot preach or pastor (have spiritual authority) in the church and over men. 1st Timothy chapter 3 vs 1 is very clear and so is 1st Timothy the 2nd chapter. The role or title of pastor is for men. God has given men spiritual authority not women. Pastor John answer this believers question based on scripture and not going around the world.
Yes outside the church, last time I did some research on it that came up. Some men do not like women teaching male children and believe it's scripture. I cannot recall it but I find it interesting men are under attack for the Word of God.
@@MineCraftDadnSon Titus 2:3-4 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, (4) and so train the young women to love their husbands and children,
@@danball4410 yes thank you for sending me to that! So it is confusing me from other verses... they can urge or warn young people to act a certain way or to not act a certain way. It doesn't say they can do it in church though can it be at home? Or is it referring to the universal church of faith in Christ the heart and how to live and walk in spirit.
@@danball4410 the chapter before is talking about elders and that is a man... and goes on in explaining how a sound church uh operates far as what men and woman are to say to the young and bondservants.
I would say it's a form of deep respect and not that of authority in any church be it a house of God... the heart .. at home that it's just the way they should treat one another no matter and bring one another up in faith... I'm so tired I should sleep lol
Remember guys if someone tells you a WOMAN shouldn't be a pastor thats perfect because Paul also tells us that we are neither male nor female we are all one in christ. Well thank you paul so i guess that null and voided a those women can't preach nonsense since we are all one in christ i dont know how Gods going to segregate us now.
No, the LGBTQ uses that same verse to promote their agenda. So if we interpret that according to your view, then that makes the LGBTQ correct.. so from that point alone, we can see your interpretation is incorrect
If God has called a man to be Pastor of a sheep congregation he has raised, how then does that Pastor and his elders allow a fine, spiritually built and obedient woman to be Pastor of women's groups of that congregation? Those women have a pastor. There is no need of multiple pastors. If you argue against my point using Moses and Jethro's teaching moment, be mindful that those leaders chosen to sit over a set of people were deacons.
No.... do not call them leaders or pastor; for, they are the givers of life, each gender has its place in the world that God our Father has created for us and Him. Our place is set in the word of God; and, can never be charged. Just because you compromised the Father's word; doesn't, mean the Father in Heaven compromised His law, and punishment for those who compromised His laws, and will suffer His punishment.
Also people do you remember what Jesus said? At that time Jesus said, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Mathew 11:25 Do you see? All of these men who went to seminary and are so " wise" and "learned", God HIDES his truth from them since they are so prideful of their so called knowledge( man made doctrinal bias by which they twist the Word of God). He reveals truths to the humble. Like He said in another place- unless you are converted and become like little children, you will not see the kingdom of heaven. And the greatest will humble himself like a little child. See the connection? Jesus links childlike faith with being humble. He only reveals his truths to the humble. The entire church system is full of the pride of man! "Oh my pastor is so smart, I believe whatever he says even if it flies in the face of Almighty God's Word." Of course women are not to be "pastors". But neither should men such as john piper be called pastor. They are prideful, puffed up, arrogant and deceived. And deceiving others. Search the scripture, you will find your whole mainstream church business of idolizing pastors is spiritual prostitution and adultery. Come out of Babylon His people!
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and _one_ shepherd (poimen / pastor). One. Neither male nor female leaders today should be called pastors. The shepherd / pastor of my soul is Jesus, and not anyone else.
Ok, that simple goes against the teaching of Paul, who was taught by the Holy Spirit. You can't tear down what God instilled because of your feelings. God places people in charge. That is how He establishes order. Read the OT. It has always been that way
Deborah and Esther were leaders chosen by God. God can use anyone for His work and glory as He doesn't discriminate against anyone..male or female, slave of free, jews or gentiles... let's concentrate on leading people to heaven by preaching the truth not always engaging in baseless arguments. Look, Satan yae taken over the church because Christians are always debating about irrelevant things.
@@daughterofzion.4592 The Bible is partly the product of history. Think about it. In addition, the Bible contains firm examples of my point. Prove me wrong.
the Bible says women can teach and preach. just as men first of all there is no male no female in Christ Lord Jesus (gal 3;28). God doesnt look at us through flesh because those who look at the flesh are carnally minded (rom 8;5) secondly, in 1 tim 2 apostle paul talks about ONE woman to not teach one man. God is very specific and He does know how to use singular and plural form. when in the earlier verses paul was talking about modest dressing style when referren to women he used PLURAL form and then he talked about some issue we do not know about he used singular form. he forbade one woman to teach one man. he added that she was not to usurp authority over the man. of course! nobody can usurp authority over another person. men cannot usurp authority over women as well. men are to be submitted to their wives just as women to their husbands (eph 5;21), they are to walk in humility and die for their wives just as Christ died for the church (eph 5;25), if they want to be first they are to be slaves of all (mark 9;35). also priscilla taught a man, apollos (acts 18;26), we all are to teach and admonish one another (col 3;16). i repeat ALL in 1 cor 14;35 the verse talking about women not speaking in the church does not say that women are to be silent in the church and cannot preach. it talks about chatting of women thorugh which they were disturbing the service. in 1 cor 11 paul taks about women praying and prophesying in church so women did speak in the church. also, infamous jezebel was preaching in those times and she was deceiving people. Lord Jesus was correcting her about deceiving people and what did He say? He told her to repent... of what...of preaching and teaching? No! of her fornication. in 1 cor 14;26 we read that everyone who comes to the church meeting can serve the church whether it is psalm, doctrine, revelation. everyone is everyone. also in eph 4;11 we read that it is God who chooses apostles pastors prophets etc. Women are prophets chosen by God and the office of the prophet is mentioned in this verse next to the office of pastor or apostle or teacher. women are not excluded. all the offices are mentioned in the same verses. if women can be prophets they also can be pastors and teachers. these are just a few reasons women can teach and preach to men and be pastors so stop lying and deceiving people. Nie zawiera wirusów.www.avast.com
Other voices said; can good come out from nazarine. Want to ask! Where man come out from door of man or women. Please answer us, we wanted to know? That's why GOD'S WORDS says; learn at home with Mommy and Daddy first ( parents) and bring to the churches or school. Is it. Please forgives me and my families and friends and neighbors too, please!!!
It’s refreshing to see a Christian organization not shy away from handling a hot potato.
🥔 🔥 😱
And be willing to leave the comment board up. 🗣 💭
PortCanon ....... It’s not a hot potato..... It’s just man/ woman centered desire to fit in with the modern culture.
Robert John Thomas, exactly.
Hot potato = controversial topic.
Exercising your first amendment right is an excellent feature on this channel.
This is irrelevant but I don't know where else to put it or how to write in. Tonight I cried because I didn't know whether or not my faith was genuine or if my wicked heart had just assured me that it was, and I cried. I cried for a good long while. And I prayed for a good long while. And I put my head to the floor and I begged for a good long while. "Jesus, please, hold me and keep me for all eternity and never let me go." And finally, I asked, "Jesus, if you never grant me anything else, not even one more breath, Jesus, I beg You, grant me You." And for as long as I had cried, in that one moment I felt all the comfort I ever needed and I broke down and cried even harder.
SkyStorm Plays - I think the fact that you are going through this struggle speaks volumes. Only a Son/daughter of God would have a troubled spirit trying to discern if their salvation/relationship was genuine. If you were of the world, (not of God) you wouldn’t care. I recommend looking up a sermon here on YT by Paul Washer. He talks on the same topic: how to know you are saved. A few other pastors also speak on this topic but he’s the first one that comes to mind. But he goes over some scriptures that can give you the assurance you’re looking for. May God bless you with the peace your heart is longing for, my sibling in Christ.
@@drewbc32 I appreciate your comforting words, and I thank God for it. The last couple of days I haven't felt as troubled. I'll watch the video you recommended. I thank God for your comforting words, and I thank you, my brother or sister in Christ. May God bless and keep you for all eternity, and may you glorify Him in all things. In Jesus‘ perfect, wonderful, powerful name I pray, amen.
@@drewbc32 I am thankful not because of the inherent reassurance in what has been said, but for the fruit which is evidence of sanctification which is evidence of justification which is evidence that Christ is alive in me and that I am alive in Christ. I used to be addicted to pornography. And only by the sword of the spirit could the sin of my sexual immorality have been killed. I read the Word because I seek fellowship with God and because Scripture is the only way through which it can be attained. I can't just pray and ask for the Holy Spirit to reveal things to me because the Holy Spirit wrote a book. I hate my sin. I hate the sins of others. I love the Word of God. I love sinners and so I share the gospel with them in hopes that they would examine themselves, as is evident in one of my friends who would identify himself as belonging to a group of heretics who call themselves "Christian identity". He believes that he is saved but I fear for his soul as I feared for my own. And so when I thank God, I thank Him for reminding me that there is fruit. I appreciate the instrument, you, which God used to bring that to my attention.
But then... Is that my wicked heart deceiving me again? I know that Jesus Christ is Lord but the devil knows it too. I know that the day of judgment will come but the devil knows it too. And then, maybe it's just that I have a healthy amount of biblical fear but then there's that tightness in my chest and I think... Christ says, "my burden is light, and my yoke is easy". And though I don't worry about daily life and though daily life is easy, even when it's not... Do I worry too much for my soul? If the burden is light and the yoke is easy?
I've read that Martin Luther had the same thoughts as you are having. (But then again, I've had them too, and I know of a few Long standing Christians of 20 years or so that had them too) You must remember that Satan is "The Accuser of the Brethren." (Rev. 12:10) That also to ourselves, not just others. "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Jn. 3:16) We cannot get salvation due to ANYTHING we did. say or think. (Not that we shouldn't try to obey Gods word, and will for our lives ((Jms 2:18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.) as It is because we accepted The Betrayal, suffering, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of our sins. But, your love of God shows! It is said: Satan knows he can.t steal your salvation, but he can steal your joy. And that's what he's always after! Try desiringgod.org/article/the-devil-cannot-condemn-you it's a good little reading on the subject. Jesus Bless You!
Words, especially when used as formal titles, carry all kinds of implications and therefore should be judiciously applied. Thank you for this.
Agree with Scripture and Pastor John.
I've visited churches and if the Pastor has a wife, you call the wife "Pastor" as well. You don't call the Presidents wife "President", you call her the first lady, if you are a doctor and your wife is not you don't call the wife doctor either. So why would you consider calling a Pastor's wife the same if she is not?
Can women be pastor ?
BQ&SA ua-cam.com/video/477dbcY-h6I/v-deo.html
What if the woman who is leading the church doesn't have a husband??
@@livinghope1561 she shouldn't be leading the church.
@@MineCraftDadnSon nowhere does it say she cannot lead a church!!! Instead we are all called to lead everyone to Christ!!!
@@livinghope1561 alrighty then!
SHORT ANSWER, NO.....
Can women be pastor ?
BQ&SA ua-cam.com/video/477dbcY-h6I/v-deo.html
I speak on can women became pastor ??
ua-cam.com/video/u6F696Ed8c4/v-deo.html
...and no more discussions about it either
1cor.14;34.
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....".
There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ.
So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion?
Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28.
Ah. That is more like it!
Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in.
Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power.
Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ.
A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4.
We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18.
Out of His fullness we have received.
Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus.
As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay!
Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You.
Let's share the good news TOGETHER!
Follow the word of God, not of man.
Good idea.
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....".
There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ.
So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion?
Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28.
Ah. That is more like it!
Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in.
Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power.
Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ.
A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4.
We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18.
Out of His fullness we have received.
Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus.
As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay!
Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You.
Let's share the good news together!
Thank you for the Biblical clarification, Pastor John.
God Bless. 😇🙏🏻
This is a slippery slope for the church; Lucifer wanted to share a leadership title too. I personally would not belong to a church where everyone shared the title Pastor.
As a congregation we should want to know the Pastor of the church is an educated, experienced and ordained man.
This would be like hearing nurses in some hospitals will now be referred to as Dr. [...]
Physicians work hard to earn their degree, we have no issue acknowledging that, and addressing them as Dr. Jane Doe. So why would we not honor a man, with a calling, chosen by God, who is educated, and ordained, in the church with his own title as Pastor? As part of a congregation, I personally have that need to be under that kind of leadership.
The Bible is also very clear, women are not to lead a church. As a woman, if I find this offensive, I have been offended by the one who created me. To serve in a community under a respectful leader, should not be offensive.
Loved your first point about Lucifer. Regarding what you said about pastors education, I'm not sure I agree. It seems that many great men of the Bible weren't educated. So I'm not sure that is an issue. Thanks for your comment.
Jeremy Wheeler I completely agree! Many of our greatest leaders are called by God with no education. I was trying to point out many do carry a degree and not only had the calling but the education as well. I had men like Dr. Charles Stanley in mind.
Many men took that calling, just like a doctor does and worked hard to earn a degree. I think so many people want a title without the effort. It’s called pride
Rená uneducated men can be called. Women can’t period. It’s Gods design. God Bless.
Let the spirit ofGod lead us into reading the word
I John 2:27, "The Anointing which you have received of Him abides inside you, and you need not that any man teach you, but as the anointing teaches you all things, so remain in it."
So does this verse means we don’t have to go by the scriptures?
Correct. We need to go into the Greek language in order to find out how Paul used the terms: elder, pastor, bishop, shepherd, and overseer.
One thing to point out is that while some denominations and churches distinguish between the terms elder, pastor, bishop, shepherd, and overseer, the Bible uses those terms interchangeably to refer to one office-the office of pastor. So, when we talk about an elder, pastor or shepherd, we are talking about the same office.
- In the NT there are 18 Occurrences for the Greek word ποιμήν (poimén) = Pastor/Shepherd
- In the NT there are 66 Occurrences for the Greek word πρεσβύτερος (presbuteros) = Elder
- In the NT there are 4 Occurrences for the Greek word ἐπισκοπή (episkopé) = Overseership
- In the NT there are 5 Occurrences for the Greek word ἐπίσκοπος (episkopos) = Overseer/Bishop
One clear example of how these terms are used interchangeably is in Acts 20:17, where Paul “called the elders of the church to come to him” (Acts 20:17). At the end of Paul’s farewell discourse, he said, “Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood” (Acts 20:28). In this one passage, Paul used the terms elder and overseers interchangeably because they mean and refer to the same thing-a pastor.
Numerous other examples prove this point (Titus 1:5,7; 1 Peter 5:1-2).
This is essential groundwork for the discussion because as we turn to Paul’s first letter to Timothy and look at the qualifications for an overseer (1st Timothy 3:1-7), we know we’re looking at the office of pastor, bishop, and shepherd.
A pastor should know what the Bible teaches and abide by it and preach it faithfully. If a woman is taught in the scripture, she would know that a woman cannot become a Pastor as she may not take authority over a man or teach men. If she does not know or agree with the scriptures, then she would not be fit to be a pastor anyway.
Heaven forbid all the men Ive talked to in the street and told them ( taught them) about Christ and watched them accept Him as Savior--Since no male had attended to them at their late ages of 50plus yrs of age.
@@khappy1286 This is pertaining to the local church.
K Happy evangelism different from pastoring a congregation.
1 tim.2:12.
I don't wanna respark an old debate from 3 years ago but I just stumbled across this.
My reply;
What of the 7 women Paul greets, thanks and gives title to in Romans 16:1-15
Notably Phoebe at verse 1 who's called a deacon in many modern translations and Prisca whom in verse 3 is mentioned prior to her husband Aquila (likely as she's the Pastor referenced down in verse 5.)
It’s confusing when I’m searching for a church and see a banner for the pastors and they name a female as the pastor. As women we definitely have roles in the church. But actual pastor over a whole church on a regular basis seems to go against the Bible.
According to God's word the woman is to remain SILENT in the churches point blank!!!
Seems? You don't even sound sure or convinced.
I am convinced. I was more posing it as a question for others to think about. But your tone sounds kinda angry. God doesn’t want his people arguing. Topics like this people can get really nasty about which isn’t a good look. It really doesn’t matter what anyone says let’s just go to God ourselves for clarification if needed.
Weaver Lawn Service no
@@WeaverLawnService amen
My question is why the need to have a title attached the beginning part of your name? Not in the sense that position doesn't matter but in the sense that one would feel they have to be called "Pastor" I recall Jesus being called the good shepherd and he attributed that only to God. I honestly feel that if you are seeking the title of "Pastor" and feel you are not complete without being given the title of "Pastor" it is quite possible you are not ready for a leadership role and need to get the heart submitted to God
1 Peter 5:4 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 4:10-11 KJV
bible.com/bible/1/rev.4.10-11.KJV
Weeelll-Then let all the churches in the world know they need to remove the word pastor from all their bulletins etc.
K Happy
It would be the best thing they have ever done.
Kudos to you!!! Names and titles are a huge detriment to the living church. Jesus avoided names and titles constantly. He even aggressively challenged any name people gave him.
Someone who is wise would never allow themselves to be referred to that way. Why? Because it requires two or more interpretations of the name or title to be agreed upon. That’s very rare at best. Then there’s the problems of intent, function, purpose, responsibility, expectations, pride, definition, etc.etc. that people demand of someone with such an “important” title.
Jesus even refused to define the word...”truth”...at the point where doing so may have saved his life. And the title of “Christian” has been so used and abused that it is virtually useless. It can mean anything to anyone for any reason. It needs to go! It’s little more than a defensive shield that people hide behind so that they don’t have to account for themselves or be transparent to others.
There’s much more to say about this but just remember....fools love names and titles while the wise reject them as useless forms of identity.
Again...kudos!...no..double kudos!! To you!
Scripture cannot be watered down or ignored.
Isaiah 3:12. Stay in the Word of God. Men represent God, women represent the church. The church does not rule. God does.
No, you misinterpreted this particular scripture! "Women" in this scripture, does not mean actually females. At the time, a man's "manhood" was insulted when called or considered, "effeminate" or childlike hence the first part of this scripture that refers to a "child". No where does the verse say anything about "men representing GOD, women represent the church". margmowczko.com/isaiah-3_12-women-leaders/
@- Tomahawk - Always refer back to scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you the "why"
Reading the bible like a book is a dangerous game. Men have authority and other domains women do too. This isn't a competition, we all work together for the kingdom of GOD, not our ourselves. Let's edify each other in the fullness of GOD's part, not just take bits and parts to fit a divided agenda. GOD bless!
@@nikhefe16 Don't allow pride to harden your heart to truth. Women are to not lead in the church and to be subject to their husbands. It is written how many times through out the New Testament? Please, if what you hear in your heart does not align with the word of God which is to make you wise for salvation, then it is not from God. There is nothing wrong with servitude and humility. In fact, Jesus took those very positions. You should read the Bible like the little library it is, book to book and not bits and pieces of scripture here and there.
@@Progamerjay100 most people today are not married. Men and women. Most 51percent are not married. Be current on the times.
@@Progamerjay100 Women are definitely allowed to teach other women and children in the church, correct? The problem is that too many of us do not read the context of the scripture reading without understanding. Why did Paul tell that particular church that women should be quiet and should report to their husbands? We are on the same page we want all to make it to heaven! But GOD's Spirit was poured on all flesh to operate in their gifts. This video is about whether women can be pastors not whether or not they can teach and minister. You have got to share the scriptures with me about women not being allowed to teach and minister in the church. This isn't about pride or lack of humility, but inquiring about the Truth of the gospel in the midst of a culture during the time of Old, that saw women as 2nd class citizens. We are learning here, but I don't want what you're saying to be a cop out to digging deep into scripture. So please share the scriptures that tell the church that women cannot minister and teach!
Excellent Dissertation and scriptural founded! The world and unbiblically founded churches want to change the truth of God's word and allow female pastors which is contrary to the biblical intent and authority thereof.
Women have proven time and time again that they can excel in leadership roles and showcase their intelligence. Intelligence knows no gender boundaries, and it's wonderful to see women breaking stereotypes and making significant contributions in various fields.
In 1 Corinthians 12:4-6, it is written, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone." This verse emphasizes that God gifts both men and women with different abilities and talents, making them equally capable of serving as leaders and elders in the congregation .
Amen!
It really sounds like the modern church invented a hierarchical title and is using that terminology to read back prohibitions into the scripture. Doesn't the teaching of the Nicolaitans mean overcoming the laity? Weren't people surprised at the mature teaching of the Apostles BECAUSE they were laymen? The reality is that judges in the old testament were called shepherds (see 2 Samuel 7:7) and Deborah was a judge who clearly had authority from God to guide those in leadership.
Yes, amen!
I'm a woman and I agree, but I wanna ask, say I am going through a problem and I really need to talk about it to a trusted elder, but I feel the pastor or elder is better equipped to counsel me than a female leader, should I go to the pastor (assuming they counsel me with their wife beside them) instead of the female leader?
That's what the pastors wife is for.
Er...NO....the Apostle Paul made this crystal clear....
Good Lord, how long does it take to say NO.
Some people need to know why.
“Highly misleading”. Yes, i.e. lying
I really appreciate that Pastor John goes into the great detail explaining the words, and the Biblical meanings. Yes, the short answer is NO. But he helps us think it through and have the information to defend the Scriptures.
Pastor John is being VERY gracious with his word usage. But if he is correct in his assessment, then those who he is speaking against are more then “mislead”, they’re straight up WRONG.
Damian Martinez Yes agreed, very much deceived, we live in a culture where everyone wants to re-define everything for themselves, around themselves. Ironically their autonomous epistemology fits perfectly within the pushed narrative of a very secularizing society, one that is in utter rebellion to the Word of God(like America rn). They REFUSE to allow the Scripture to define itself in matters of faith and godliness, but finesse their desired meaning from it. The Scriptures are clear, they just don’t like what it says.
@Damian Martinez Read the book of Matthews. Jesus tells the Pharisees that they do well when they tithe 10 percent. Tithing is biblical and another act of worship to God.
@@Progamerjay100 Tithing is OT.
I'm certain this goes beyond the church buildings. Families are being torn apart by these women that go against God and men. I am so happy to be single and in faith with Jesus Christ and the Almighty Heavenly Father.
If the lord so blesses me with a woman of same faith I would truly be blessed and forever thankful as I already am more so of course but if not I will live the remaining days I have a single man raising a son from a past broken relationship into faith without a partner for myself. I will go the rest of my life if that's how it will be.
MineCraftDadnSon
I detect a longing in what you say. If you “burn” for a companion then go get one. If you don’t, your mind will always be occupied with the desire for one.
Mr. C I'm working on me not really interested in trying to find a wife and at same time trying to live guided by spirit so if it comes it comes like I said if I'm blessed I'm blessed.
I am a man and would love to be loved but I have lived a selfish life for many many years. Perhaps in what I first stated it comes from a woman... I am heartbroken in a way... I would love to be with a wife and be glory to God about it all... I may burn for it at times when I feel lonely of companionship but I am still working things out for my own spirit and minds understanding.
I the odd time think about seeing a woman that I fall in love with but I don't have much desire for it as I have my own spirit I'm fighting for and finding a woman of God seems quite uh difficult to begin with and I'm still healing from my past way of life and relationship with my son's mother.
Not according to 1st. Timothy chapter 2; and 1st. Corinthians chapter 14
Summary attempt: in our day and age, "pastor" should be reserved for elders/overseers. If you're in a formal role at your church, maybe in charge of small groups, men's and/or women's ministry, but your elders/church is not inclined to install you as an elder, then they shouldn't call you a "pastor" either. - what's the best alternative? Minister? Deacon? Director?
Should we scrap the term pastor altogether and just call each other brother, sister or elder where appropriate? I have encountered a lot more widely varried secular and church opinion on what this title means compared to what Piper suggests (mine is an Australian context).
Agreed that even using the word "Pastor" is misleading and unbiblical. The terms brother and sister are more appropriate. The Lord taught not to be called leader. Elders do have a overseeing and shepherding role that is recognized, and deacons have roles to lead the logistical serving, but they should not be taking a title that causes a clergy laity division when the NT does not have one.
Yes, biblically speaking there's no such thing as a youth pastor, worship pastor, etc etc
No.
Problem, is that the Babylonian churches, ( protestant, catholic ) have created this false role of the professional preacher celebrity pastor / priest in a pulpit, an absolute desecration of the biblical church, which is a body of believers, where the ' leaders' are servants
It hasn't helped, that's for sure. But that's probably not the reason we find ourselves in the position we are in.
Depends on what people think is meant by the word "pastor". Qualification on this helps you to know whether it's yes or no. Having witnessed the debate within the Church of England about women being ordained bishops, I would agree with John Piper here.
Is there, at all, a difference in God's Word between pastor, elder, overseer, presbyter and bishop? No! They are interchangeable terms/titles.
John made it difficult to understand. Yes or No?
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....".
There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ.
So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion?
Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28.
Ah. That is more like it!
Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in.
Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power.
Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ.
A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4.
We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18.
Out of His fullness we have received.
Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus.
As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay!
Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You.
Let's share the good news together!
The word of God is true and if we say it’s true and believe it’s true, then it is what it is. This subject is not debatable. It is quite clear what the apostle Paul had written if the Holy Spirit did not want to revealed this apostle Paul, then he wouldn’t have said it… see people forget we serve an ancient God, we should not deviate or accommodate… THIS IS THE WORD GOD
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles by God.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore a Judge could execute a man.
Any doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did
is a false doctrine, and must be rejected.
@@8784-l3bWhat scripture are you reading because Deborah was not a pastor. She was a judge of Israel and a prophetess.
Question! So GOD had called me into leading a campus ministry on my college campus as president. I led for 3 years in obedience to His will (even though I rebelled a lot lolz), but I taught men and women believers and unbelievers about Jesus, led prayer sessions, trained leaders, did outreach events, and also invited male pastors to come teach the Word! I would always tell people that I am not a Pastor when I found that people would come to me regularly for spiritual guidance, as I do not occupy that spiritual office! However, the Lord still tasked me with teaching the Word, how to read it, and in that how to lead people to faith. With all of this being said, what actually differentiates me as a minister (kind of like Joyce Meyer, just not on a international level ahaha) vs a Pastor, if GOD had placed me in charge of His flock in campus ministry?
Omo A. I love this question. I led a campus ministry myself as an undergrad and was met by some pushback from some male Christian friends. At what point does ministering/ leading a group of people in the faith become “pastoring”? If women aren’t called to lead, then when is that line drawn? Just when men are present?
I have so many questions about the theology of women in leadership, questions for those who approve of it, but mostly for those who don't.
The main question I keep coming back to is what about Deborah? She led Israel under the old covenant.
What about all the female prophets named in the bible? How then can anyone argue that a woman can't hold one of the five-fold offices (including teacher), let alone operate in those giftings without holding an office?
And in 1 Timothy 2, Paul says he doesn't permit a woman to teach or hold authority over a man, and in the very next chapter gives the qualifications of overseers and deacons. He says for both, they should be the husband of one wife. But then in Romans 16:1, he names Pheobe as a deacon (same Greek word). So either he's contradicting himself, or we're not properly understanding what he's saying in 1 Timothy.
You...yourself said “I am not a Pastor.” If God wanted you to be a Pastor you would have known that and called yourself that. You don’t have to go to theology school and get a degree to have the title only God can give.
It’s just as bad in upci Churches I’m finding they won’t pick me up 🆙 ty for visiting
should I leave my church if it has a woman pastor?
First READ Isaiah 3:12, kJV.
Then Numbers 27:16-17, KJV.
Are you being fed the Word there? Is your pastor producing good fruit, the fruit of the Spirit spoken of in Galatians 5? Instead of asking us, why don't you spend some time with Holy Spirit and see what He has to say about it?
Ποιμένας is the Pastor and shephard in Greek . Pronounced "Pimenas". There is no other word for it. Funny though, as Greek language is so rich in words!
But pastor is a synonym of shepherd, that mean the one who feed his flock
Pastor is an ancient word for shepherd
Can you dive more into what you mention briefly at 1:26, about this topic going more into the home and society?
Husbands are required to shepherd (pastor) their wives and children. Regarding society (governance and job roles) Piper isn't specific in RBMW from memory, although i _think_ he would say the leadership in secular roles should also be typically male.
He was just saying, as someone who is complementarian, it’s application extends further then just its usage in ecclesiastical offices (elders and pastors) that he’s addressing in the video. But in the home, men are call to “love their wife as Christ loves the church”, women are called to “submit to their husband as into the lord” and their roles in their marital relationship ARE NOT to be conflated with one another and are distinct purposefully and gloriously.
A look at the comments can tell you that some people don't read their Bibles, and if they do, maybe bits and pieces here and there while picking and choosing what to believe. No wonder this world is falling apart. Without the Sword of the Spirit, how may we prevail against the attacks of the enemy. We are no good in furthering the kingdom of God if we ourselves aren't even edified.
Kierra Uniq
Jesus Said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". Nobody is listening to Jesus. Men nor women should be teaching anybody. Jesus is our Teacher. People listening to people. You are all falling in the ditch.
@@kathleenwharton2139 I guess the book of Timothy is pretty pointless then huh? Where Paul says to preach the Word....
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine
z1g7ag
If you believe and follow Jesus..it is pointless. I don't follow Paul. I follow Jesus. And if a man wants to teach anything he should at least teach what Jesus told him to teach..Not men's opinions.
@@kathleenwharton2139 Um.... You know Jesus didn't personally write the Gospels while He was on earth right? So if you only follow what is written in the Gospels, then you are following the teachings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. By your logic, all scripture is corrupt because it is written by man. Can you please show in the Bible where it says to only follow what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote down? Unless you use scripture to backup what you are saying, then you are saying your own opinion and you need to repent.
Matthew 23:8-10
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
The Jewish rabbis were also called father and master, by their several disciples, whom they required, To believe implicitly what they affirmed, without asking any farther reason; To obey implicitly what they enjoined, without seeking farther authority. Our Lord, therefore, by forbidding us either to give or receive the title of rabbi, master, or father, forbids us either to receive any such reverence, or to pay any such to any but God.
z1g7ag
Bible people are hilarious! If I quote Paul..the Bible is infallible! But if I quote Jesus..suddenly the Bible becomes fallible. I believe Jesus Words in Matthew 5 6 7. it is not that hard.
I just wanted to know if churches should have female pastors this was a long winded answer
Yes, if a woman is serving in that capacity then she should hold that title; but with the caveat that is explained below:
James 3:1-2 New Century Version
Controlling the Things We Say
3 My brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all make many mistakes. If people never said anything wrong, they would be perfect and able to control their entire selves, too.
God Bless.
God's word says let the woman not preach or teach or asurb authority over the man she is to remain silent in the churches If she has a question let her ask her husband at home! God's word also said God created man and he latter created him a help meet which is the woman. God's word also says the MAN IS THE HEAD!!! Anyone that goes against God's word or disputes one word is an atheist and is calling God a liar.
The strong identification to temporal gender roles is of the earthly ego. Our heavenly bodies will have no gender. I get the sense a lot of the dogmatic policing of gender roles is based on an either conscious or subconscious belief that men are superior to women and has more to do with reinforcing that view than about adherence to God's law.
@@myrtletree8575 see there you go trying to dispute what the God of the universe Said and set forth. We're not talkin about what our heavenly Bodies will look like we're talking about what God Said and what his place for the woman is. I didn't say anything about the man being superior to the women I said the truth according to God's word that the man is the head of the woman point blank. It is in fact the women all over this country thats causing all this confusion they do not want to accept their God-given positions. If you have anything to dispute take it to God he made the rules you take it for what you will it dosent matter. Every last out of her place woman past present and future is going to answer the God for your rebellion. Further than that do you know that the woman is actually supposed to address the man as Lord? Look it up, do your research. Nothing is about what we want, it's about what God Said, accepted it or not.
@@myrtletree8575 but, we are still earthly beings until the change comes and the Word of God has the final word!
Omg....we need to understand the context of that scripture. There was a reason why different letters were sent to DIFFERENT churches! It was never meant to be one size fits all. If your church is lacking in one area, you draw from the Scripture to correct/mend it. GOD constantly used men and women in the Old Testament and even use women in the same capacity in the New to oversee both men and women, in which BOTH parties had to submit to. To suggest otherwise, is to make GOD to be a liar, a mere man full of contradiction and err. The issue isn't whether or not women are allowed or should lead, it is about context, hence why the discussion video focuses on the issue or title and responsibilities of a pastor, not a questioning of how GOD has poured His Spirit upon the flesh of both young men and women (Acts 2) to fulfill the assignment of spreading the good news. What you are spreading is legalism, and we need to be careful that as we enter the Word that we aren't doing so with a heart conditioned already from societal lies, based on gender, or preconceived notions reading the Word without the leading of the Holy Spirit to teach us the Truth. HUSBANDS are the head over their households and men have certain duties, but it does not nor will it ever negate women in spiritual leadership the Lord has placed over both men and women to submit. We need to be careful not to spread falsehood for it can severely damaged the body of Christ and I refuse to stand in the way of what GOD is doing through people in accordance to his Word. Remain blessed, we need each other on this journey!
I have no issue with men taking most of the leadership roles but only a weak leader would fail to pragmatically use the gifts and talents of women within the church who desire to serve the Lord. I just think some Christians use legalism to mask their own prejudices instead of focusing on what really matters.
Hey, let's debate this for years. Helping our neighbors and the poor isn't what Christianity is about. It's about debating trivial points in theology.
I don’t think lead Pastor is biblical though. It doesn’t matter how things are done these days. If they aren’t biblical they are wrong. Lead pastor is possibly man made.
No
A good defense to protect the traditionalist viewpoint and to reserve the terminology of church leadership for professionals.
Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected
daughters of Almighty God:. ......
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with
all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is.
And again we plainly see:
"As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in
the churches.
They are *not allowed to speak*"
*[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell,
utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"But must be in *submission, as the Law says."
*[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience
(obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own
husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the
church."
*[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew
Dictionary]
36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has
reached?
37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him
acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command"
1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV)
Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ?
So again that is the TRUTH arrogant rebellious feminists may not like it, but there it is. Any feministic attempt at deviation is against the Truth and the commandment of the Lord.
"Women should stay silent as also sayeth the law....".
There you have it. The law has been fullfilled in Christ.
So what grumpy old churchfather had his say and added that to scripture to fit his own opinion?
Since: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Gal 3:28.
Ah. That is more like it!
Preach it, teach it, live it. You women are so in.
Col 2:9-10. The fullness of deity dwells in Jesus bodily and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM (the last Adam!) who is the head of all principality and power.
Because of what God did in Christ you automatically became what you are already. A new creation in Christ.
A partaker of the divine nature for free. 2 Pet 1:3-4.
We awake by the Spirit to that fact and grow by His Spirit in to Him, the normal divine nature, for free. Because of His great love for us, His creation. 2 Cor 3:18.
Out of His fullness we have received.
Good news, joy unspeakable. God came, took us in and restored us back to original created value to walk as Jesus.
As He is.... so are we. All that is His is ours. The Father in Christ and Christ in us. Seamless oneness. For free. Yay!
Thank you Jesus for opening our eyes for the inexpressible riches, the normal divine nature, we have received in You.
Let's share the good news together!
@@ToninoterRessort No one can having Christ as their master, revoke the Lord's commandment for women to remain "SILENT" in all church assemblies.
Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected
daughters of Almighty God:. ......
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with
all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is.
And again we plainly see:
"As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in
the churches.
They are *not allowed to speak*"
*[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell,
utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"But must be in *submission, as the Law says."
*[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience
(obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own
husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the
church."
*[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew
Dictionary]
36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has
reached?
37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him
acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command"
1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV)
Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ?
So again that is the TRUTH arrogant rebellious feminists may not like it, but there it is. Any feminist attempt at deviation is against the Truth and the commandment of the Lord.
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 earnestly huh. You poke out your eye, sell all your goods, cut of your hand, burry yourself, for you do not keep the whole law!
My friend learn it is all about becomming love by Holy Spirit.
You cut of 50% of mankind to spread the word. Learn love. Stop hairsplitting.
@@ToninoterRessort You are knowingly and falsely accusing the wrong person.
It is the Divinely approved "Teacher of the Gentiles" you re rebuking....So you really should be very "Ashamed" of yourself.
Here is the Divinely approved Truth especially written for the Elected
daughters of Almighty God:. ......
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with
all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
That is the TRUTH, many now do not like it, and refue to comply, but there it is.
And again we plainly see:
"As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in
the churches.
They are *not allowed to speak*"
*[To talk, i.e. UTTER WORDS :- PREACH, say, speak (after), talk, tell,
utter. -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"But must be in *submission, as the Law says."
*[To subordinate; reflexive to obey :- be under obedience
(obedient), -Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary]
"35 If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own
husbands at home; for it is *disgraceful for a woman to speak in the
church."
*[A shameful thing, i.e. indecorum :- shame.-Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew
Dictionary]
36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has
reached?
37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, **let him
acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's** command"
1 Corinthians 14:33-37 (ANIV)
Anyone in here "spiritually gifted" ?
I guess not!
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332
Again: "......as the law sayeth" supossedly comming out of the mouth of Paul is completely hilarious.
Paul would never refer to the law because he understood the law kills, the Spirit brings Zoë- life.
The law has been taken out of the equation. The law in itself is good but served another purpose. Now we live under "the law" of the Spirit of life.
Completely different.
Don't poison the bread of life with law again.
It is common knowledge that the bible was influenced by churchfathers back in 300 AD.
You have to live by the Spirit to discern.
Paul quoting law is complete idiocy. It is to obvious.
Furthermore love and transformation into the image of God sets the pace 2:Cor 3:18.
Cutting of 50% of the body of Christ is crazyness.
Finished. Bless you.
I was also married by Justice of the peace she was a woman should i remarry please be truthful
She wasn’t a Pastor. She was a legal official able to marry people...you followed the law of the land.
My Daughter was Baptised by a woman should i get her rebaptised. By a male paster now im nervous for my child
The question here is if baptism is necessary for salvation
Why would this matter? If your daughter is saved, she is saved by faith, not by baptism. Baptism is simply a public declaration, not salvation.
Baptism can be performed by anyone, not just men.
You can’t baptize a child. You can only commit them to the Lord. Like you promise to bring them to church and teach the way of the Lord. When she is old enough to know and choose, then she can be baptized unto the salvation of her soul.
It doesn’t matter what gender baptizes... Anyone can baptize...Whst matters is test the proper form us followed. Thst is... “ In the name of the Fathet, theSon, and the Holy Spirit”.
So.. No, your daughter does not need to be baptized by a man.
Brilliant answer. Women can pastor, but not be head of the flock. We must teach our children the difference of the word, "pastor".
Bingo!
Why didn't he expound on 1 Timothy when I speaks on a overseer or bishop, pastor is a Man of on wife
Anybody hear that strange audio artfact at about 1:20 ?
negative
i only hear reinke agreeing
i have no problem with women not being pastors, I do have a problem with men using this as an excuse to be misogynistic. Same thing with the wife being submissive to their husbands. Have no issue, but do have the issue of the abuse of power.
Were you abused?
I am a married woman and see submission as a beautiful way to serve, help and love my husband. An employee has to submit to their manager but that isn't seen as abuse. A child has to submit to their parents. And children of God need to submit to Christ. And it is written several times through out the Bible that wives must submit to their husbands. But rest assured, it is also written that husbands are to love their wives as themselves, caring for them like their own body and not to be harsh with them. We are to respect them as leaders of the family. Not everyone can lead, some need to follow. Order brings unity, not division.
MouseCrusader
No person Shoud be submitting to another person and neither man nor woman should be teaching anyone. Jesus Said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". The Only One anyone should be submitting themselves to is God HimSelf. Jesus has invited you to have personal relationship with Him. Why on earth do you want to listen to some man or woman spout their Nonsence?
Kierra Uniq
Jesus said.."Let No man be called rabbi.". Jesus offers personal relationship with each of us who seek Him. We should not be submitting ourselves to any man or woman not them teaching us either. You may have lucked out..but believe me..many woman Suffer because of that damnable bible verse of Paul's making.
@@kathleenwharton2139 God himself put man as the head of the household. He clearly have a good intention to do so. Not for the wife to place her husband as an idol, or to have her husband be a replacement for Christ, but as a form of covering for her, and a leader for the family.
Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church. So no, submission isn't necessarily a bad thing. You submit to your boss. Children submit to their parents, etc. the real issue is when this system is being abused for the sake of power, or to exasperate idolatry.
If the husband steps out of God's will, and live in sin, the wife is not obligated to follow his sinful actions, because she is submitted to Christ first.
Great!
Now women in the church especially the Presbyterian church are called women Elders.
Exactly. Avoiding terms, labelling movements ("complimentarians") simply leads to a re-writing of the meaning of those terms, or else the use of another in its place. The goal is always to arrive at a position where women are in public leadership ministry in Churches, but do so under an evangelical/reformed banner. It's wrong.
So what is his stance?
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah.
Reply for it if desired.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually.
That is how a woman could judge
men of their sins, including homicide.
She was a pastor, according to the scriptures.
This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles.
To say a woman can be a Judge over Israel, but a woman can't be an elder in a small church, just doesn't make any sense scripturally.
@@8784-l3b she was commanding an army only because the guy was scared to. That is not a church.
@@2ndexodusmove
Taken from my short essay:
A Judge at this time, was VERY different from a judge in our time.
The Judge was over the nation of Israel. But not as a man, as
King, or as a woman, as Queen, because God was not rejected as King as yet.
God ruled Israel through the Judges.
Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 KJV
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
[PASTOR - Origin: late Middle English: from Anglo-Norman French pastour,
from Latin pastor ‘shepherd’.]
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Also:
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel.
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet
@@8784-l3b 2 Tim 2:11-15.....Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
@@2ndexodusmove I did not get a notification of this post.
Sorry for the delay.
A Judge could judge homicide cases, according to scripture.
Therefore a Judge could execute a man for the sin of premeditated
murder.
A Judge was REQUIRED to judge only the hardest cases.
People can talk about Eve, but God made Deborah a Judge.
My short and free essay covers all this, should anyone need
a study.
Pastor john.(1cor.14:34.
Missed the scripture red letters that say it’s ok to be I’m offended at every thing 😅
Pastor John, as a woman I feel so sad about what the bible says about female leaders. I know Eve has sinned and was cursed to obey men, but my ill soul feels as if God is giving another candy to men and he doesn't allow women to have one. God is good, and I know his ways are different than my short opinion, but I cannot help myself but feel so unimportant. In the modern world where people say men and women are equal, I cannot understand why men can have something that women cannot have. Anyone who is reading this comment, please pray for me to reconcile to God.
Praying for you sister! Let us be thankful that God lead and exposed us to the truth.
Hi Kayoun! Men and women can be equal and different at the same time. The Bible teaches that they are equal in value (Galatians 3:28, 1 Corinthians 11:12) but created with different responsibilities. Praying that you are able to see the beauty in the differences and know that God has ordained them for our good!
Women have way more roles than you can fathom in the church. You're only being excluded from too.
So, I did not really hear him with a clear answers. Nor do i think the right question was asked in the first place.
He answered it at the end when he said (I’m paraphrasing) “in trying to be accurate with the title pastor, and have a clearer perspective they doing the opposite by giving the title “pastor” to a woman”.
(His other points) reason 1 because their are no woman pastors in the NT. 2 the word pastor in our church setting is one given to the head of a church, having a woman with it would be contradictory even if she is not the leader, in that case even more so. 3 if their trying to actually be accurate a woman’s title could be elder, leader etc.
I hope that helped 🤷🏽♂️
Good explanation. Short answer: No such thing as women pastors. They don’t meet the requirements.
I don’t want to be called Pastora. Period. Sister and teacher is enough.
Teacher of whom?
Only if they pastor churches.
There are no such things as LEADERS in the church but only SERVANTS. Christ never called himself a leader nor did Christ even come out and directly say "I am the son of God" Why? Because its ARROGANT and PUFFED UP and PRIDEFUL. He just let others PERCIEVE HIS POSITION THROUGH HIS SERVICE TO HUMANITY. Every Christian should behave in this way and we might have a chance of surviving this next century.
Sally Ironic
I like your point! This is a different way to look at things. We SERVE...All of humanity..just as Jesus Did!
Sally Ironic
And it is in What we Do! Not in how many bible verses we know and dissect and discuss!
Sally Ironic
The whole PRIDE thing..of one man leading another is purely of the Devil. We are ALL to submit ourselves to God..as Jesus did..Not to each other. I suffered very much in my life submitting myself to the titled men in a Church. This is of the Devil. Thank You! One person on Here..gets it!
John 10:36 - do you say about the one whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
@@feistyferret13 Something I have learnt as a Christian is that people learn the lessons in their own time when God wills it.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
So then basically what I'm hearing him say is: ignore what the Bible says or means and go by man's modern understanding instead. No thanks.
I always thought thst “pastor” was what the ordained minister was called... leader of a church, or not... man or woman.
You thought wrong
I’d rather watch Ten Commandments movies than visit most churches ⛪️ 😅
I think using the term 'complimentarianism' is causing some of the problems in the modern Church. It isn't helpful - and in my experience here in the UK - has been used with a very broad brush. For example, our local evangelical Anglican parish state that they are "complimentarians", whilst allowing women to teach, preach, serve the eucharist, and take positions of authority. I wouldn't call that "complementarianism" at the best of times. But that's what they have co-opted in order to justify a very liberal position on shepherding. I take the point on the term "pastor", but again, this would tend to just mean that Churches will avoid the label and not address the point: women in public leadership in Churches.
Complementarianism
That false and confusing teaching, that states Christian women are less than
Christian men in a spiritual way, but they really aren't, but they really are.
The complementarian teaching prohibits a Christian woman from holding
certain positions in a church. They can't be elders neither can
they teach men. So why is that?
The false teaching makes it clear that the priesthood of the New Covenant
is tiered. There is a hierarchy. Those that are higher, the men, can be in
leadership positions, like elder. They can teach other men. Those in the
lower tier can not be in leadership positions, like elder. They are prohibited
from teaching men, because the men are in the higher tier. It wouldn't make
any sense.
A new believer is automatically assigned their level, higher or lower,
at the moment of salvation, as a birthright. Their gender determines
their tier. A Christian can not move to a higher or lower tier.
A Christian that is in the lower tier (woman) is not allowed to
complain of the tier she was placed in. That would be sin, because
God made her a woman by His choice. She should accept and also
embrace her position in the lower tier.
A church, is either a group of Christian men or a group of Christian men and women.
A church can never be a group of Christian women, because it would be
a group of only those in the lower tier. It would have no elders.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
Since the teaching states that women are spiritually inferior to men, but
they aren't, but they are, when did that start?
But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer.
-excerpt 1 Timothy 2
It started with the first woman. She was deceived, and sinned because of it. So we
have a teaching that accepts that men and women are fallen beings. Both genders
are sinful by nature. However women are different. They are lacking the ability
that men have to judge if some situation, some concept or teaching is sinful. This
inability was passed down from Eve to all women. It remains to this day. A woman
in our time was 'lacking' from birth, even from the womb.
So what can be done? Nothing according to Complementarianism. That is because
an anointing of that powerful masculine being called the Holy Spirit, is just not
sufficient. Even the Holy Spirit can not elevate even one Christian woman to the
spiritually superior level of a Christian man.
@@8784-l3b erm...are you OK?
@@TheB1nary Fine.
The Judges were pastors, according
to God, as written in Chronicles.
I suggest my short essay on her.
@@TheB1nary My short essay on Deborah
makes it clear that men and women are perfectly
equal spiritually.
@@8784-l3b I suggest you study more!
NO NO AAAAAND NO
Careful study of the scripture will show that the role of "Pastor" is limited to men:
So why are we seeing so many “women pastors” these days?
I believe there’s a lot of ignorance in what calls itself a church these days - ignorance of the word of God…
Also, we are in a time when there is a spirit of rebellion in both the world and what calls itself "the church"…
In some of these cases I think there is a spirit of “fear and approval” on the senior pastor or senior leadership of the church
(Men in leadership roles who fear the approval of their wives)
The Pastor’s wife definitely has opportunities for ministry as a godly woman should -
She can teach the younger women and be used in evangelism and counseling sisters in the church, prayer ministry, miracles, helps, prophecy, mercy, and children’s ministry, etc
But this does not give her the title of “Pastor” or any other role that that would encompass leadership over men in the church in any way
She may help her husband with finances, but this does not give her a pastoral role
She may help in the “administration”, but a church is not a worldly corporation and does not have C Level executives
There is no such thing identified in scripture as an “Executive Pastor” for example
A Pastor is a Shepard of the flock, He has a God given anointing and a tremendous responsibility and accountability before God
Too many so called “Pastors” of today are not even “God called” to that role and they don’t have the anointing and have no clue of their responsibility before God
There are plenty of opportunities for women, (and men), for ministry - but you don’t get to be a Pastor because you choose to be
The role of a Pastor is a gift of God to the church, and He appoints those He has called to this role and there is a tremendous weight of responsibility that goes with it.
To just flippantly use the title for those who serve in other ways in the church is a misuse and misunderstanding of the gravity of God’s call.
To name the Pastor’s wife as a Pastor in the church is a misunderstanding of scripture and a deception that can lead to other problems in the church
Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said in his instructions for the church:
I do not allow a a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man…
( 2 Tim 2:12 )
The role of a Pastor comes with an authority over men in the church
A woman who assumes that authority is in rebellion to the Word of God, and this invites the activities of evil spirits
www.bibleword.com/wwsnbp.htm
So.. Pastors = Shepherd = Bishop = Overseer = Presbyter = Elder
Paul always mentions elders. A church is to have elders so not one man has control and if the pastor is rebuked or w.e you goto the elders and treat them like fathers.
I have no idea really I'm still learning about it.
The position of a pastor equal that of an elder, and the position demands plurality. As seen many times across the new testament.
@@Ayotundejerry nice... ill read and research more.
They play same role because In Early Church ELDERS were the ones to lead and feed the Church of God so it is with Bishops, Pastors, Presbyter and Overseer.
✓Glory to God Almighty Forever
My stance..please read till the end:
Generally, anyone can teach anyone Col 3:16..but when it comes to mentoring, let a woman mentor another woman. and let man mentor another man..Titus 2:1-6......as a couple such as Aquila and Priscilla, can mentor a single person(Apollos) or mentor other couples. Roman 16 says that the gentile churches are grateful to Priscilla and Aquila..When it comes to being a pastor/deacon/overseer of a church, it is the responsibility of a married man(according to 1 Timothy 3) and not a woman. I also think that even Paul can't be a pastor of a church because he is either unmarried or widower..but he was preaching outside the church where he stayed (Acts 28:30-31)...I believe a woman can also preach or teach outside the church just like Paul did..examples four unmarried daughters who were prophetess in book of acts, Anna in Luke, Deborah in judges 4...a note: though Deborah name is not mentioned in the NT, Barak name is mentioned in the Hebrews 11..Barak is identified only with Deborah in chapters 4 and 5 of Judges...If one has to explain about Barak in Hebrews 11, they can not ignore Deborah..moreover even Rahab's name is mentioned about in Hebrews and James....in 1 Peter 3, women are said to take the examples of the past "women"(plural). Sarah is one such woman...what about Deborah,Huldah, Anna?....moreover Roman 16 says that Phoebe is a servant of a church...another translation says Phoebe is a deaconess.......I have couple of questions. Does prohibitions in 1 Cor 11, 1 Cor 14, 1 Timothy 2 addresses only married couples or women and men in general???because as for as my perception, the context implies married couples only(with respect to Adam and Eve)
Names and titles are rarely profitable. That’s how dogmatic judgements get started. “Christian “ is a prime example. That handle has been so used and abused that it is virtually useless. “I’m a Christian”....is practically an insult and is cause for judgement and all types of interpretations pertaining to the claim maker. Any name or title must be accompanied by actions that confirm the title. Even that is no guarantee of the authenticity of the recipient or the user.
If someone is truly wise, they would never refer to themselves as such. Even if someone else refers to them that way, they are going to be
questioned as to what that name or title means not just to one but both parties. Jesus was no different...when people called him “good teacher” he quickly corrected them. When people pointed out his brothers or other family members he again corrected them. Jesus was obviously opposed to names and titles. Piper loves them! This is just one way to identify the authenticity of who someone says they are.
Unfortunately there has been some confusion between a spiritual gifting and a role or office within the church. Pastors, otherwise referred to as "shepherd teachers" in Ephesians 4 are not necessarily seen as a role but as a spiritual gifting from the Holy Spirit which Jesus poured out on the church (Acts 2). The Spirit is said to be given to both males and females (Joel 2) so there is no distinction in who can receive these gifts. The office of overseer or elder within the church (1 TIm 3) is specifically spoken of to apply to males in context...but only with the same qualifications given to female leaders within the next few chapters. The role of elder or overseer is not equatable with the pastoral or teaching gift. The Scriptures do not teach that along with pastors or teachers or evangelists, prophets, etc that the Spirit also gives overseers or elders since those roles are roles, not gifts.
Furthermore, Paul would be invalidating his own teaching (if the understanding we are using was what he meant) as he permits prophets to speak in the name of the Lord to the rest of the church (1 Cor 14)- we learn that some of these are women later on in Acts who address the church.
I propose we return to the Scriptural way of defining, interpretting, and speaking about these roles and spiritual giftings. Women and men can and have been evangelists, shepherds, teachers, apostles (not the office or role), and prophets (not the office or role) throughout the book of Acts and later Church history up unto the moment.
Lastly, the reason why I post this comment (as I never do) is because teaching like this has marred God's glory for centuriers. I love John and believe him to be wiser and smarter than most, but men are fallible and able to misunderstand the Scriptures. God gives us the Spirit so we can glorify Him. When we operate in these giftings He gets more glory. I want any woman to know that the Scriptures testify to this truth: women can, should, and will continue to be God glorifying pastors, leaders, preachers and etc. Do not be afraid to operate in the power of the Spirit because of men- May God bless you all as you continue to discuss this matter and may God get the rightful glory that He deserves- through both the men and the women He has seen fit to be pastors and equip His church so that we all may attain to the full stature of maturity in Christ.
You have to use scripture to back up your claim otherwise it is pointless babble. You use the clear to understand the unclear.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Oh boy. I absolutely love this Word. And I have no doubt God spoke with me. I would love to teach His Word, truth be told it WAS my dream until I saw...I SUFFER and it was finished. So if I touch this it would be Evening teacher. He said take notice of Joyce Myers jokers smile. There are subjects that need the authority of a man to back. Rods of iron are heavy. Eve and it would be sickening.
Not relevant in today's religous climate .having bibles and ability
To read and not involved with churches the question is academic!
However the infallibility of the Holy Spirit will guide and teach
Without any pastors male and female
So many denominations and different interpretations of scripture!
Women leaders are not pastors-period!
People have selective hearing at not one instance he said that women cannot be pastors. I believe that is what the real question was. He answered the question asked not the "real" question I believe this person was asking. God has poured his spirit on all flesh so I believe that by the Spirit women can be:(1) apostles, (2) prophets, (3) evangelists, (4) pastors (shepherds), and (5) teachers. When I read Acts 10, I believe that God did not just refer to gentiles to women. We need to stop calling impure what God is calling pure. We are under a new covenant, the fundamental of that covenant has not changed but the traditions of the covenant have greatly changed let not be deceived by the traditions and miss when God is speaking to us.
No. The Spirit will not contradict the Word. The HS will not call a woman to be a pastor or elder.
Should we have female leaders?
My friend is a Pastor and a Bishop and she is a woman
Then she is neither.
🤨🤔
it all goes back to rebellion, the devil wanted to be God and many people today want to be something their not.
ihavetubes
You are Right. It is Pride. No man or woman should be called pastor. Jesus is Your Only True Teacher! Jesus said it. "Let no man be called rabbi.". They are usurping Gods Place in your life. I paid a great price listening to men and women. Hard lesson learned.
@@kathleenwharton2139 Ain't nothing wrong going to church either but men should be on the top leadership positions as God intended.
ihavetubes
You are welcome to church. I Went to a lot of Church. Got nothing but mislead. Jesus is my Teacher! He is the Best!
@@kathleenwharton2139 yes many buildings where people go that they call church is a disaster zone far as respecting the Word of God.
I cannot even find a believer to baptize me!!! I am going Sunday with my son to hopefully get baptized but apparently they have need of me to JOIN and declare some pact with the church...
Is it in the bible that I have to join or sign my name or do anything beyond faith and love for Jesus? I will find out Sunday!
MineCraftDadnSon
I have much experience with church. My experience is that they are a pack of wolves. After suffering long with them..this is what I finally did. I Sought Jesus. He brought me the bible He wanted me to Read and Helped me Read it. He showed me the bible verses for me and those are the ones I read. Gospel of Matthew chapters 5 6 7 is the entire Foundation. I study those chapters and Seek Jesus Help and it Saved me from all the Christian wolves. You and your son Are a Church! Seek Jesus Together! I Woud strongly advise you to leave the wolves alone.
NO!
Um...no.
Leadership in the CHURCH is ordained for MEN.....
No... Deborah and Esther were leaders in the bible
@@daughterofzion.4592 Not in the Church. They were temporary leaders of a people group. They were also aberrations in an otherwise patriarchal society.
@@TheB1nary a leader is a leader... whether temporary or permanent....
@@daughterofzion.4592 Not true at all. I said, "Not in the Church". Where was Deborah when war was a very real eventuality? Try much harder please (or ask your husband at home).
@@TheB1nary God uses any vessel available.... He's not partial or biased. The ultimate is for souls to be saved.
No
It is Up to Her What She want Her Members to Call Her as Christians Leader.Do you Think GOD in Christ the CREATOR is Angry to Her because She made Herself as Pastor in the Church? Probably,GOD the CREATOR Loves Her because She Preach About HIM in the Church.
She’ll find out.
Women can testify gospel. Women can serve the Lord. Women ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAD the flock. Bible says clearly about it. Stop justifying your preference that is set AGAINST the bible.
NO
Why is Pastor John beating around the bush with this believer? The Bible is very clear that women cannot preach or pastor (have spiritual authority) in the church and over men. 1st Timothy chapter 3 vs 1 is very clear and so is 1st Timothy the 2nd chapter. The role or title of pastor is for men. God has given men spiritual authority not women. Pastor John answer this believers question based on scripture and not going around the world.
I thought the bible said women can't be pastors or in the clergy. They can be teachers though.
Yes outside the church, last time I did some research on it that came up.
Some men do not like women teaching male children and believe it's scripture. I cannot recall it but I find it interesting men are under attack for the Word of God.
@@MineCraftDadnSon Titus 2:3-4 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, (4) and so train the young women to love their husbands and children,
@@danball4410 yes thank you for sending me to that!
So it is confusing me from other verses... they can urge or warn young people to act a certain way or to not act a certain way.
It doesn't say they can do it in church though can it be at home? Or is it referring to the universal church of faith in Christ the heart and how to live and walk in spirit.
@@danball4410 the chapter before is talking about elders and that is a man... and goes on in explaining how a sound church uh operates far as what men and woman are to say to the young and bondservants.
I would say it's a form of deep respect and not that of authority in any church be it a house of God... the heart
.. at home that it's just the way they should treat one another no matter and bring one another up in faith... I'm so tired I should sleep lol
Remember guys if someone tells you a WOMAN shouldn't be a pastor thats perfect because Paul also tells us that we are neither male nor female we are all one in christ. Well thank you paul so i guess that null and voided a those women can't preach nonsense since we are all one in christ i dont know how Gods going to segregate us now.
So you're saying the Bible defines us as nom binary?
Yes because the point of Galatians is to make us all a bunch of genderless blobs that can do whatever we want
No, the LGBTQ uses that same verse to promote their agenda. So if we interpret that according to your view, then that makes the LGBTQ correct.. so from that point alone, we can see your interpretation is incorrect
Paul said that in relation to salvation. Try harder next time.
Amen
If God has called a man to be Pastor of a sheep congregation he has raised, how then does that Pastor and his elders allow a fine, spiritually built and obedient woman to be Pastor of women's groups of that congregation?
Those women have a pastor. There is no need of multiple pastors. If you argue against my point using Moses and Jethro's teaching moment, be mindful that those leaders chosen to sit over a set of people were deacons.
A fine, spiritually built and obedient wouldn't want to become a pastor.
No.... do not call them leaders or pastor; for, they are the givers of life, each gender has its place in the world that God our Father has created for us and Him. Our place is set in the word of God; and, can never be charged. Just because you compromised the Father's word; doesn't, mean the Father in Heaven compromised His law, and punishment for those who compromised His laws, and will suffer His punishment.
He danced around the question...it's either yes or no
Also people do you remember what Jesus said?
At that time Jesus said, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Mathew 11:25
Do you see? All of these men who went to seminary and are so " wise" and "learned", God HIDES his truth from them since they are so prideful of their so called knowledge( man made doctrinal bias by which they twist the Word of God). He reveals truths to the humble. Like He said in another place- unless you are converted and become like little children, you will not see the kingdom of heaven. And the greatest will humble himself like a little child. See the connection? Jesus links childlike faith with being humble. He only reveals his truths to the humble. The entire church system is full of the pride of man! "Oh my pastor is so smart, I believe whatever he says even if it flies in the face of Almighty God's Word." Of course women are not to be "pastors". But neither should men such as john piper be called pastor. They are prideful, puffed up, arrogant and deceived. And deceiving others. Search the scripture, you will find your whole mainstream church business of idolizing pastors is spiritual prostitution and adultery. Come out of Babylon His people!
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and _one_ shepherd (poimen / pastor).
One.
Neither male nor female leaders today should be called pastors.
The shepherd / pastor of my soul is Jesus, and not anyone else.
Ok, that simple goes against the teaching of Paul, who was taught by the Holy Spirit. You can't tear down what God instilled because of your feelings. God places people in charge. That is how He establishes order. Read the OT. It has always been that way
Not willing to say a clear no or yes
Deborah and Esther were leaders chosen by God. God can use anyone for His work and glory as He doesn't discriminate against anyone..male or female, slave of free, jews or gentiles... let's concentrate on leading people to heaven by preaching the truth not always engaging in baseless arguments. Look, Satan yae taken over the church because Christians are always debating about irrelevant things.
God absolutely discriminates. Most men throughout history have not been Church leaders either.
@@TheB1nary is history greater than the bible?
@@daughterofzion.4592 The Bible is partly the product of history. Think about it. In addition, the Bible contains firm examples of my point. Prove me wrong.
the Bible says women can teach and preach. just as men
first of all there is no male no female in Christ Lord Jesus (gal 3;28). God doesnt look at us through flesh because those who look at the flesh are carnally minded (rom 8;5)
secondly, in 1 tim 2 apostle paul talks about ONE woman to not teach one man. God is very specific and He does know how to use singular and plural form. when in the earlier verses paul was talking about modest dressing style when referren to women he used PLURAL form and then he talked about some issue we do not know about he used singular form. he forbade one woman to teach one man. he added that she was not to usurp authority over the man. of course! nobody can usurp authority over another person. men cannot usurp authority over women as well. men are to be submitted to their wives just as women to their husbands (eph 5;21), they are to walk in humility and die for their wives just as Christ died for the church (eph 5;25), if they want to be first they are to be slaves of all (mark 9;35).
also priscilla taught a man, apollos (acts 18;26),
we all are to teach and admonish one another (col 3;16). i repeat ALL
in 1 cor 14;35 the verse talking about women not speaking in the church does not say that women are to be silent in the church and cannot preach. it talks about chatting of women thorugh which they were disturbing the service. in 1 cor 11 paul taks about women praying and prophesying in church so women did speak in the church.
also, infamous jezebel was preaching in those times and she was deceiving people. Lord Jesus was correcting her about deceiving people and what did He say? He told her to repent... of what...of preaching and teaching? No! of her fornication.
in 1 cor 14;26 we read that everyone who comes to the church meeting can serve the church whether it is psalm, doctrine, revelation. everyone is everyone.
also in eph 4;11 we read that it is God who chooses apostles pastors prophets etc. Women are prophets chosen by God and the office of the prophet is mentioned in this verse next to the office of pastor or apostle or teacher. women are not excluded. all the offices are mentioned in the same verses. if women can be prophets they also can be pastors and teachers.
these are just a few reasons women can teach and preach to men and be pastors so stop lying and deceiving people.
Nie zawiera wirusów.www.avast.com
Other voices said; can good come out from nazarine. Want to ask! Where man come out from door of man or women. Please answer us, we wanted to know? That's why GOD'S WORDS says; learn at home with Mommy and Daddy first ( parents) and bring to the churches or school. Is it. Please forgives me and my families and friends and neighbors too, please!!!