I agree with you on this but let a third party develop the AI ATC and MS FS2020 provide the API to permit this dev. to happen. This would also provide competition in the market place to build better AI ATC in the future and free up MS FS 2020 programming resources to focus on product delivery & support. The API could also be used for VATSIM / IVAO integration.
I totally understand, but you see Flightradar or actually not flightradar but transponder data that flightradar uses... Meaning you actually have data included future filed flights so there is no reason for the traffic to be live and incorrect to the time and date you set in the sim
yeah, same opinion here! it's far better to use schedules because u could set custom parameters for the realworld schedules like density, type of aircrafts, go around rate, and many more. if u just sync it with flightradar, u cant adjust it as desired! i think thats a big point.
Guys, this issue already been solved by the game "Airline Commander real flght experience" mobile game, they use RT traffic and when they are in airport approach the AI takes care of it, for. Ex. When the atc gives you clear to land, if there is a plane near your position, gets a go around and cancel the approach. And when you are flying or in the airport the atc warns you about it so you stay at safe distance. That's why i love that game and wanted MFS to be like that, (and fully recommend it) and from what i read it will be 😊
Two problems with this: First of all, listening to ATC is not legal in all countries. Second: Where are all those aircraft models gonna come from? Ryanair 738s, Fedex MD-11Fs, Flybe Dash8s. I doubt we will see all of those modeled. Besides, real world airspace is extremely busy and it can be quite stressful at times to operate in such an environment. I am not sure I would want that when flying for fun at home. Sure, I would like to see other aircraft, but I don't want to be number 24 to land at a busy airport. I have that in the real world every day.
This is true about actual ATC not being legal to listen to in all countries, such as here in the UK, but I'd be happy with real-time traffic being shown in the Sim without the ATC. Or, for those with airband radios, could easily tune in to frequencies while flying.
That’s very sad by the way....yeah I don’t see how this could even be possible fsx already can’t get AI traffic right...with planes flying right over you because they’re approaching at 250kts and ATC can’t keep traffic properly spaced...and now you wanna add real world traffic to the mix HA
Hardcore sim is their main audience, I find it cool however they’re making it so non simmers can come and enjoy the experience. You bet I’m staking this 100% seriously once I get my hands on this game. Can’t wait!
Lol as if vatsim is good for actual simulation. I know there are a couple centers with good controllers but as a whole I would NOT call vatsim even slightly realistic
They could just have the irl stuff and have a system to identify the real aircraft and when you want to join or leave the airport the game can alt + f4 that plane and you can take its place; or have a system where you can jump into aircraft that are currently active irl, like in driver san Francisco and then you can follow irl atc. just 2 implementations that would help you integrate into irl traffic
Get the schedule for that day then generate ai traffic why overcomplicate things and plus if you want to sync with flightradars real time data your going to pay extra for that data
That's wonderful, I love having the option!!!!!! This info made my day as I'm an Air Traffic Controller. I've been waiting to hear some info about Air Traffic Control.
There is an game for mobile called "Airline Commander real flight experience" , it's a great game and they use real time traffic, also they have a map similar as flightradar , if they can do it, microsoft can do it. The atc is the only thing the app doesn't have. And I would love having real time map and real tome traffic.
Wow that sounds so complicated but would be amazing if you could do that. Keep up the good video mate love watching updates and you explain them very well
X-CHECK you are on it bro, can't get enough of your entertaining and information about our new favorite flight sim! Way to go! I think the only good option would be AI BASED on real world traffic (like small airports don't have as many flight and as much traffic etc so based on Airport size :)
Thank you for this news! I have always loved that MSFS has had ATC. I started in 1, and went through all iterations. I was very very surprised when MS sold out to Lockheed Martin, though by this time MS might OWN Lockheed Martin... who knows. But then they come out with the flight simulator to end all flight simulators? And I have not heard a word about ATC until your video. Thank you. VATSIM has ALWAYS been there for MSFS, and I don't expect it to go away. But I am like you and do not have a clue how they would integrate real world traffic into MSFS ATC. Will be a great journey. Take care sir.
Flight One has a program called ultimate traffic live. If they could get together with Microsoft and integrate that with Microsoft's ATC might be interesting or integrated with an updated version of radar contact
Easy, the moment your actions intersect the IRL world AI; the simulation becomes dynamic and the game takes over. When the AI in a given area no longer intersects with your actions, they can re-introduce deterministic AI again.
its easy: if you spawn at an airport, the real traffic around you is downloaded from the server, incl. all the planes on the ground. Than them will be displayed and get there depature times. Afterwards them fly, controlled by the AI. If you are in flight, them get spawned arround you, and when them are (like in FSX/P3D) more than 20nm away, them despawn again.
I imagine it could be mixed, mostly IA with IA voice commands (it is like a gps, you don't need a huge vocabulary and with neural networks they can learn hearing real coms and actions), and the IA can sent you voice commands to you and it would be according to the rest of the air traffic. In case you ignore a command, the AI could skip you or delay other flys. About a mix ATC IA-Player feature, it could be done, because it would be possible for players to select what airplane they want to manage the approach, so the AI would not do those, so they would need to find a hole in the queue.
Real-world synced traffic would be ultra-cool if you were able to play as a spectator instead of a pilot. That would solve the "it-exists-without-you" problem mentioned in this video, and enable you to watch Grandma's commercial flight arrive to visit you (if you're unable to meet her at the airport), or watch your friend's Instrument Rating checkride (or at least an approximation of it) in spot plane view!
I think what you could do and what what would actually be feasible is using the real flight plans and departure times and all and you can either choose to operate a real flight or you give the sim your desired departure and arrival so the sim can substitute fights so you fit in. The issue is after all that squeezing you in at e.g. Heathrow at any time is simply impossible. That's why I personally don't use LiveTraffic for X-Plane among other reasons
With realworld traffic and you flying in the sim, then the sim will have to cleverly creates gaps to accommodate you depending of what you ask ATC. For example, at an airport with realworld traffic, say you start at gate 10, so the real plane at gate 10 is removed, so gate 10 is for you in the sim. Other example, say you are flying near a big airport and tell ATC you want to land there, once ATC agrees, they will have to suppress 1 or a few real flights so that you have the space for it. Where it becomes tricky, is when there are last minute changes in the real traffic.
Another problem, real life traffic has a delay and radio as well, depending on the location (mostly for security purposes). I wonder how they figure that out.
I think it will work basically like this, it will be real world operations until you begin the pushback and taxi, once your aircraft starts moving, the sim will cater to your plane being included, operations will still continue but they will be slightly modified by the ATC to give you space (so in the real world a plane would be taxiing but in your sim it will have stopped to allow you to pushback) once you are clear of the runway normal operations will continue, when you ask for landing clearance this same thing will happen again, normal operations will continue and the ATC will slightly modify the real world ops to include your plane, you would be able to listen to real ATC however this would only be beneficial in the cruise as when you take off and land the sim will have to slightly alter whats happening in the real world to include you
I guess real world would mean some mixed up system. Like real world traffic get loaded when you start a flight and then the traffic is ai controlled the entire session.
The hybrid ATC and traffic should be like this. They take a snapshot of the real world traffic, flight plans and aircraft models. Then have the AI sim traffic and AI sim ATC basically continue that in the sim. Use the model airplanes where possible and where not just use the next closest aircraft model type. Keep in mind this can be a lot data. So they will have to find a way to condense it. I’m sure your sim will only download the traffic in the area your flying and perhaps as you fly. If you relocate around the world in an instant you have to download the traffic again.
Here's how you do it. You program a routine that feeds the real-world flight data to the AI. The AI doesn't know if it's real or not unless you tell it and it will handle all the real-world flight requests no different than sim-side requests. The result would be pretty realistic, as far as having to wait in line. For really busy airports, the AI could delete the next incoming flight to make space for a sim-side takeoff. One missing flight that was about to land anyway would never be missed, and if it had connections you could just respawn it as if it had landed and nothing happened.
To me it seems like the easiest way is to just drop aircraft when you're inbound. This of course based on what you're flying. There's really no other way. If you were on final in a C172 to KJFK for instance, you'd be told to go around until you crashed from running out of fuel otherwise. Simply keeping the real world schedules until you enter the equation and then it gets modified or flights disappear. They can then make them appear at their gates, or back on final once you are no longer out of the loop, but it's a sim for the user after all and AI or real world will just have to move on over.
This is one of things I was hoping for. Decent AI traffic, but I did not expect to see real world traffic. That is mind blowing, and for me it is the icing on the cake, and I'm sure that in time, the people who are working on this system will perfect it, and come up with some way to integrate both the real world, and the ai.
they can script the AI to take over at any time under certain parameters in reference to the player/s, but the question is how would they want to resync after the AI is no longer necessary
Initial release will be bare bone. Don't expect much beyond few default airplanes, nice graphics, updated dynamics, real world weather etc. Any kind of extension to outside world like ATC or traffic or economy or VR will take time. Probably a lot of time.
The combination between real slottime and the AI slottime could be calibrated as this: When you request to be put up for a slot time you wil simply replace the nex up real life one. som you take its place. that plane is swapped out with you, so in other words, you take its place. Now the count in airborne will be the same as it is in real life. except you are part of the "in real life count".
Okay. My take with the real world traffic. I think it's possible that MFS can take a snapshot of the traffic at that moment and after that, all the aircraft will be AI controlled after that point. I just don't think it makes sense to track real world as you go because, as you said, we can't interact with it. The only way I can see this working is if MFS gets a spectator mode and we turn the simulator into flightradar24, but this time, instead of a 2D basic map, we get a realistic 3D scenery with all the AI traffic. There's also the aircraft models to consider. I don't even know how many will be ready at launch. Some models may not be there and you could have a situation where ATC is calling on a plane that's not yet available in MFS so the plane is not rendered in MFS. EDIT: To add, I think ATC can be varied enough in this day and age as opposed to FSX days when ATC sounds monotonous. You know how those Sports games like NBA or FIFA the announcer has at least some variety to say when this player does this or does that. I think the same can be done in MFS.
Real world atc communications and atis already exists with pilotedge in xplane, fsx, dcs world etc.. It's amazing.. Hopefully FS 2020 will be compatible with pilotedge too..
As novel as real world traffic would be, it just seems to have a number of potentially insurmountable problems that come with it. I think the best solution is to greatly improve upon the model that uses real world schedules with AI traffic. With the right kind of development environment and budget, a sophisticated AI and ATC application is definitely possible. Existing programs like Ultimate Traffic Live and Pro ATC X, although far from perfect, do an okay job of simulating airline operations to add a level of immersion. Imagine combining two programs like that and giving them the resources that Asobo/X-Box are capable of facilitating.
If it's real world traffic, I wonder if there gonna get lisences form airlines so the American Airlines in the real world are the American Airlines. Also, I'm sure they could put the real world traffic just following the flight plans and are the real world planes, but they still follow the sim ATC because they will still be AI but is the same plane, airlines, and has the same plan as the real world ATC
Joe Sampson Joe Sampson I wonder if they would even use live livery’s rather than the the add on of Ai traffic that we may have all experienced in FS2004 and
I’d like to think it’s possible but however it seems so complex I doubt a workable solution could be achieved, I know we have real world traffic in current flight sims, but it doesn’t integrate with ATC unless with this new flight sim maybe it could be programmed to remove one or two aircraft when you request takeoff or landing clearance to make space for you and then you’d hardly notice the difference and might still work it’s hard to say what is actually possible or not really.
What I think is most important is the ability to actually talk to the ATC using voice recognition like what Pilot2ATC does..... It doesn't bother me whether the traffic is AI or real-world.
For this level of engineering, I imagine the real world ATC with be overtaken with Game ATC while landing or taking off, etc. Then once a certain spot is reached, Real world ATC takes over again.
So it will have live traffic Can we tune into real frequencies to listen to? Know can do it by third party apps but using the in game cockpit UI to change the radio and listen to real radio frequencies would be awesome of it had liveATC.net integration
The ATC system should be able to simulate a real world flight (happening at that specific time). For example users should be given the option to select a real world flight and simulate that exact flight. The system could grab the flight plan and inject it in MSFS complete with ATC guidance (just as the real world flight), you (the user) then replace that real world flight. MSFS would then issue ATC instructions to fit you in as a replacement . Instructions you receive would be similar to the instructions that would have been given to the aircraft you replaced (altitude, heading, SIDs/STARs etc). I always fly with live ATC in the background and follow my flight on FlightAware (using their flight plan) for (relative) precision.
Sounds cool! I can see how they would implement SSR info in the simulator. But no way that ATC's indeed are going to handle simulator traffic from real life (except for the closed training simulators of course). Just be happy with the ATC's that love their job so much, they like doing it in FS as well. Then again, there should really be a website/community where (real life) ATCs should be able to sign up when they're up to control FS traffic as a hobby
Interesting. I have been a flight simmer since day 1. I have been an Air Traffic Controller at ZDC in the DC to NY corridor since 1984. 35 years as a simmer and a real life controller. Let‘s see
Ok so I feel as tho this would be easy. First Microsoft says we have the ability... ability.... to track every plane that doesn’t mean every plane has to be in the game. So you enter in to -airspace-, FS drops a real world plane and you would fall into that “slot”. You have to remember this is only a simulator everything doesn’t have to be 100% accurate for it to be 100% accurate. The problem with vatsim is you have to be proficient with tower communication and not everyone is. Understandably it’s fun for some people to be ultra realistic but not everyone is there. I think it would not be fun taxing through O’Hare with all the traffic going thru. So they’ll probably reduce traffic by maybe 40% or something.
First off I think that the voice of the real world controller talking on the channel is pretty hard to simulate, then what if you are cleared for a landing at the same RWY at the same time as a real world A/C is, that could also become a showstopper.
I just hope the ATC is smarter and doesn’t force planes to wait forever to cross an active runway or to take off. Maybe after a while of waiting the real world traffic can disappear to realign with its real flight. (Not realistic I know)
They could do real life until you ask for taxiing then AI takes over to fit you, once in the air after 5 minutes real life could jump in again. same for arrival once you have been assigned the runway AI takes over until parked.
In the past, AI ATC was always treated like the red headed stepchild by all sim-developers. This sounds even to good to be true. I would love to have current weather and the realworld flight schedules "synched" into the sim, and then a good voice recognition for AI ATC radio communication, like pilot2ATC. In my perfect little world, i can even have go through ckecklists an procedures with my A.I. copilot...
I think there would be (as you named it) options 1 and 3 meaning AI and hybrid. If that's the case, I'd love to use hybrid. I can't see 100% real traffic happening. My thoughts.
I think they'll use FlightRadar to spawn the aircraft when appropriate, but then turn it over to AI control... they can't have it fully copying real world traffic, because that real world 747 isn't gonna go around because a virtual Cessna is occupying the runway.
I don't think it will be all ATC activity as that would be way toi much info at once. Airports line Hartsfield Jackson in Atlanta has hundreds of departures and arrivals an hour. That would just crush your pc
I think ATC just needs to be reworked. Better approach and departure vectoring which takes into consideration the terrain around the airport, more realistic ground taxiing, etc, etc. FSX approach vectoring generally vectors you too far off course for too long or too close or directly above high terrain. For example, in FSX the famous Tegucigalpa approach is an unrealistic, straight-in approach above the high terrain, which of course leaves you always too high. Mexico City runway 5 as well. At the same time departure vectoring at times doesn't take into account the terrain and real-life departure vectoring. One of the best examples of this is St Maarten, where AI takeoff, maintain runway heading and skim the mountain top. A wider range of AI traffic is necessary, but not the exact "real World" AI traffic and ATC. That's too complex, but if they can improve the existing default ATC and A.I traffic to a professional real-world standard I think that would be great. And please...NO FACTORY PAINTED BOEING AND AIRBUS OUTSIDE OF SEATTLE OR TOULOUSE PLEASE. Personally, I'd rather see white liveries than these. lol
Christopher Coke Robinson there will be no sufficiently acceptable ATC for us real world pilots that is software based, the only acceptable ATC is either VATSIM or PilotEdge (I prefer the latter).
I would go to Flightradar24, pick an airport, pick a flight about to depart, and assume that a/c type and identity, then fly the sim according to ATC instructions for that flight. You would "win" if your wheels touched down at the same time as the real flight at the destination.
Transponder tracking isn't very reliable in other simulators. Most planes disappear immediately after landing, and don't align with runways. I'm sure they could track transponders and use that data to then create virtual flight plans that don't have these issues and don't perfectly match the real world status. It would just require more coding.
I guess real schedules with simulated AI ATC is the way to go. Otherwise the player could not have any influence on his environment. As a pilot you want to be a part of the whole system. You want to be included like everyone else. Your mistakes might cause problems to others and their mistakes might cause problems to you (delayes for example). If you instead play it like in your own parallel world you would not be integrated at all and still kinda fly for yourself, even if a lof of things are going on around you. Atleast thats my feeling about this. Also, if Multiplayer will be a thing (and I really really hope it comes with a Shared Cockpit option), even more people will influence to the environment and all of this has to be in sync. I just hope that the ATC itself will be good, not like in X-Plane for example. Maybe even with voice recognition? that would be great. The technology is there and microsoft has the ressources to use it, so I hope they will.
The only problem I can see with that is that you would then have to do whatever that plane did, as quickly as that plane did it. No pausing to look at a chart, and no going ahead and taking off when the other guy paused to look at a chart or change the radios.
There's already virtual real world ATC for all simulator brands: VATSIM. Free, has the most ATC, and the most pilots. Works with FS2020. See you there.
I'm so f****** hyped that's unreal
Its real
Man me too!!! I’m so hyped I’m selling stuff just to buy a better yoke 😂!
Me too it looks so good but does anyone know how much the game will be and when it will be released?
I think i prefer ai with realworld schedules and not realworld traffic synced from flightradar.
I agree with you on this but let a third party develop the AI ATC and MS FS2020 provide the API to permit this dev. to happen. This would also provide competition in the market place to build better AI ATC in the future and free up MS FS 2020 programming resources to focus on product delivery & support. The API could also be used for VATSIM / IVAO integration.
I totally understand, but you see Flightradar or actually not flightradar but transponder data that flightradar uses... Meaning you actually have data included future filed flights so there is no reason for the traffic to be live and incorrect to the time and date you set in the sim
yeah, same opinion here! it's far better to use schedules because u could set custom parameters for the realworld schedules like density, type of aircrafts, go around rate, and many more. if u just sync it with flightradar, u cant adjust it as desired! i think thats a big point.
Guys, this issue already been solved by the game "Airline Commander real flght experience" mobile game, they use RT traffic and when they are in airport approach the AI takes care of it, for. Ex. When the atc gives you clear to land, if there is a plane near your position, gets a go around and cancel the approach. And when you are flying or in the airport the atc warns you about it so you stay at safe distance. That's why i love that game and wanted MFS to be like that, (and fully recommend it) and from what i read it will be 😊
Super Jeff why not? If you’re the guy that owns FR24, and Microsoft comes to you with a truckload of cash you aren’t going to help them?
Imagine playing Flight Simulator while you're on a plane and following the real world plane that you are on in the Simulator.
Pass me a joint...
@@boeingbwoy then you get close enough to see yourself on the plane and start a paradox...
Simception
.....and you're listening to Pink Floyd at the same time
You just wrecked my head!!**!!@
This is going to be the game of the century boys
Please, dont call FS a game.
Karalis - don't get your hopes up.....nothing has hit the market yet and it might never hit the market. x-plane is king and probably always will be.
@@legosinaviation ha, trash? it is just the most accurate, clean running, adaptable, open, mod-friendly, fast, & well written SIM product ever.
@@harpoon_bakery162 xplane ain't king. Silly boi
Two problems with this: First of all, listening to ATC is not legal in all countries.
Second: Where are all those aircraft models gonna come from? Ryanair 738s, Fedex MD-11Fs, Flybe Dash8s. I doubt we will see all of those modeled.
Besides, real world airspace is extremely busy and it can be quite stressful at times to operate in such an environment. I am not sure I would want that when flying for fun at home.
Sure, I would like to see other aircraft, but I don't want to be number 24 to land at a busy airport. I have that in the real world every day.
This is true about actual ATC not being legal to listen to in all countries, such as here in the UK, but I'd be happy with real-time traffic being shown in the Sim without the ATC. Or, for those with airband radios, could easily tune in to frequencies while flying.
That’s very sad by the way....yeah I don’t see how this could even be possible fsx already can’t get AI traffic right...with planes flying right over you because they’re approaching at 250kts and ATC can’t keep traffic properly spaced...and now you wanna add real world traffic to the mix HA
Perhaps there will be a option to turn off real world traffic to “basic traffic”.
PDMG is doing the entire Boeing family.
look up an X-Plane 11 addon called World Traffic 3, that has pretty much everything modelled, its not as complicated as you make it
This sim is gonna be unreal. Or rather, very real! So excited. Interesting video
Simply brilliant, and it seems from the outset they’re aiming at the hardcore simmers. Which is great.
They've said that hard core simmers are their target audience
Hardcore sim is their main audience, I find it cool however they’re making it so non simmers can come and enjoy the experience. You bet I’m staking this 100% seriously once I get my hands on this game. Can’t wait!
Sorry dude, but Hardcore Simmers use Vatsim or Ivao.
Lol as if vatsim is good for actual simulation. I know there are a couple centers with good controllers but as a whole I would NOT call vatsim even slightly realistic
@@ridebywire6712 -- yea, and a few others, but this is vapor-ware , that's for sure.
They could just have the irl stuff and have a system to identify the real aircraft and when you want to join or leave the airport the game can alt + f4 that plane and you can take its place; or have a system where you can jump into aircraft that are currently active irl, like in driver san Francisco and then you can follow irl atc. just 2 implementations that would help you integrate into irl traffic
Whenever you think this Sim can't get any better.
It won't !
incredible! I think it would be a revolution in flight sim...
Get the schedule for that day then generate ai traffic why overcomplicate things and plus if you want to sync with flightradars real time data your going to pay extra for that data
That's wonderful, I love having the option!!!!!! This info made my day as I'm an Air Traffic Controller. I've been waiting to hear some info about Air Traffic Control.
There is an game for mobile called "Airline Commander real flight experience" , it's a great game and they use real time traffic, also they have a map similar as flightradar , if they can do it, microsoft can do it. The atc is the only thing the app doesn't have.
And I would love having real time map and real tome traffic.
Wow that sounds so complicated but would be amazing if you could do that.
Keep up the good video mate love watching updates and you explain them very well
X-CHECK you are on it bro, can't get enough of your entertaining and information about our new favorite flight sim! Way to go! I think the only good option would be AI BASED on real world traffic (like small airports don't have as many flight and as much traffic etc so based on Airport size :)
Thank you BigDawg! Yeah, AI based on real word traffic should be the way to go!
Having real, live air traffic is completely f*n mindblowing.
OOOOooooohhh that would be super nice if ATC was implemented!! Great Video btw
Thank you!
It would be odd if there were real airlines in Microsoft Flight Simulator. I would love to see some real airlines
wow!! This would be amazing if this happens. I'm so hyped for FS-2020!
That’s awesome that I can look out of my window and see the plane and then see the plane in my game
Thank you for this news! I have always loved that MSFS has had ATC. I started in 1, and went through all iterations. I was very very surprised when MS sold out to Lockheed Martin, though by this time MS might OWN Lockheed Martin... who knows. But then they come out with the flight simulator to end all flight simulators? And I have not heard a word about ATC until your video. Thank you. VATSIM has ALWAYS been there for MSFS, and I don't expect it to go away. But I am like you and do not have a clue how they would integrate real world traffic into MSFS ATC. Will be a great journey. Take care sir.
Flight One has a program called ultimate traffic live. If they could get together with Microsoft and integrate that with Microsoft's ATC might be interesting or integrated with an updated version of radar contact
Easy, the moment your actions intersect the IRL world AI; the simulation becomes dynamic and the game takes over. When the AI in a given area no longer intersects with your actions, they can re-introduce deterministic AI again.
its easy: if you spawn at an airport, the real traffic around you is downloaded from the server, incl. all the planes on the ground. Than them will be displayed and get there depature times. Afterwards them fly, controlled by the AI.
If you are in flight, them get spawned arround you, and when them are (like in FSX/P3D) more than 20nm away, them despawn again.
This is way better video than the other youtuber, thanks punda!
Thanks punda!
years ago I had a dream about a sim like , I guess dreams do come true, glad to see they are using tech to the max, thx 4 the update
Dreams do come true...
I imagine it could be mixed, mostly IA with IA voice commands (it is like a gps, you don't need a huge vocabulary and with neural networks they can learn hearing real coms and actions), and the IA can sent you voice commands to you and it would be according to the rest of the air traffic.
In case you ignore a command, the AI could skip you or delay other flys.
About a mix ATC IA-Player feature, it could be done, because it would be possible for players to select what airplane they want to manage the approach, so the AI would not do those, so they would need to find a hole in the queue.
Real-world synced traffic would be ultra-cool if you were able to play as a spectator instead of a pilot. That would solve the "it-exists-without-you" problem mentioned in this video, and enable you to watch Grandma's commercial flight arrive to visit you (if you're unable to meet her at the airport), or watch your friend's Instrument Rating checkride (or at least an approximation of it) in spot plane view!
I think what you could do and what what would actually be feasible is using the real flight plans and departure times and all and you can either choose to operate a real flight or you give the sim your desired departure and arrival so the sim can substitute fights so you fit in. The issue is after all that squeezing you in at e.g. Heathrow at any time is simply impossible. That's why I personally don't use LiveTraffic for X-Plane among other reasons
FSX 2020 is the future of flight simulation, just can not wait for it
With realworld traffic and you flying in the sim, then the sim will have to cleverly creates gaps to accommodate you depending of what you ask ATC. For example, at an airport with realworld traffic, say you start at gate 10, so the real plane at gate 10 is removed, so gate 10 is for you in the sim. Other example, say you are flying near a big airport and tell ATC you want to land there, once ATC agrees, they will have to suppress 1 or a few real flights so that you have the space for it. Where it becomes tricky, is when there are last minute changes in the real traffic.
Another problem, real life traffic has a delay and radio as well, depending on the location (mostly for security purposes). I wonder how they figure that out.
Real world traffic is a dream off mine
This will surely be a game changer
I cant wait to see how they all perform hype is maxed out on these 🛫🛬
I think it will work basically like this, it will be real world operations until you begin the pushback and taxi, once your aircraft starts moving, the sim will cater to your plane being included, operations will still continue but they will be slightly modified by the ATC to give you space (so in the real world a plane would be taxiing but in your sim it will have stopped to allow you to pushback) once you are clear of the runway normal operations will continue, when you ask for landing clearance this same thing will happen again, normal operations will continue and the ATC will slightly modify the real world ops to include your plane, you would be able to listen to real ATC however this would only be beneficial in the cruise as when you take off and land the sim will have to slightly alter whats happening in the real world to include you
I do think something like that is desired
I guess real world would mean some mixed up system. Like real world traffic get loaded when you start a flight and then the traffic is ai controlled the entire session.
I think it will be real world Ai traffic based of real world schedule where you can add yourself and fly normal.
The hybrid ATC and traffic should be like this. They take a snapshot of the real world traffic, flight plans and aircraft models. Then have the AI sim traffic and AI sim ATC basically continue that in the sim. Use the model airplanes where possible and where not just use the next closest aircraft model type. Keep in mind this can be a lot data. So they will have to find a way to condense it. I’m sure your sim will only download the traffic in the area your flying and perhaps as you fly. If you relocate around the world in an instant you have to download the traffic again.
Here's how you do it. You program a routine that feeds the real-world flight data to the AI. The AI doesn't know if it's real or not unless you tell it and it will handle all the real-world flight requests no different than sim-side requests. The result would be pretty realistic, as far as having to wait in line. For really busy airports, the AI could delete the next incoming flight to make space for a sim-side takeoff. One missing flight that was about to land anyway would never be missed, and if it had connections you could just respawn it as if it had landed and nothing happened.
To me it seems like the easiest way is to just drop aircraft when you're inbound. This of course based on what you're flying. There's really no other way. If you were on final in a C172 to KJFK for instance, you'd be told to go around until you crashed from running out of fuel otherwise. Simply keeping the real world schedules until you enter the equation and then it gets modified or flights disappear. They can then make them appear at their gates, or back on final once you are no longer out of the loop, but it's a sim for the user after all and AI or real world will just have to move on over.
This is one of things I was hoping for. Decent AI traffic, but I did not expect to see real world traffic. That is mind blowing, and for me it is the icing on the cake, and I'm sure that in time, the people who are working on this system will perfect it, and come up with some way to integrate both the real world, and the ai.
Nothing would make the sim feel more alive than airports buzzing with traffic. Airplanes parked, some taxing, landing, taking off,...
I think all aircraft squawking 1200 should be represented by radar track since their positions are more random.
they can script the AI to take over at any time under certain parameters in reference to the player/s, but the question is how would they want to resync after the AI is no longer necessary
Initial release will be bare bone. Don't expect much beyond few default airplanes, nice graphics, updated dynamics, real world weather etc. Any kind of extension to outside world like ATC or traffic or economy or VR will take time. Probably a lot of time.
The combination between real slottime and the AI slottime could be calibrated as this: When you request to be put up for a slot time you wil simply replace the nex up real life one. som you take its place. that plane is swapped out with you, so in other words, you take its place. Now the count in airborne will be the same as it is in real life. except you are part of the "in real life count".
I'm really looking forward to the game
Me 2!
GAME?!
NicOz yes Microsft Flight Simulator
@@Nicolas6724 MSFS is not a game
Okay. My take with the real world traffic. I think it's possible that MFS can take a snapshot of the traffic at that moment and after that, all the aircraft will be AI controlled after that point.
I just don't think it makes sense to track real world as you go because, as you said, we can't interact with it. The only way I can see this working is if MFS gets a spectator mode and we turn the simulator into flightradar24, but this time, instead of a 2D basic map, we get a realistic 3D scenery with all the AI traffic.
There's also the aircraft models to consider. I don't even know how many will be ready at launch. Some models may not be there and you could have a situation where ATC is calling on a plane that's not yet available in MFS so the plane is not rendered in MFS.
EDIT: To add, I think ATC can be varied enough in this day and age as opposed to FSX days when ATC sounds monotonous. You know how those Sports games like NBA or FIFA the announcer has at least some variety to say when this player does this or does that. I think the same can be done in MFS.
We need it for VR
im just into PPL so for me its real life traffic density to the max!..lol.. but the key word is custom parameters for the realworld density!
Real world atc communications and atis already exists with pilotedge in xplane, fsx, dcs world etc.. It's amazing.. Hopefully FS 2020 will be compatible with pilotedge too..
That's gonna be one crowded, crazy sky with real world traffic. Stay tuned.
Well nice feature,even when I already satisfied with the FSX ATC system.....
Good luck trying to land at London Heathrow (LHR)
Cant wait for this beast of a flight sim to drop
This sim is going to be real disruptive technology in the sim world and we all will benefit from it
As novel as real world traffic would be, it just seems to have a number of potentially insurmountable problems that come with it. I think the best solution is to greatly improve upon the model that uses real world schedules with AI traffic. With the right kind of development environment and budget, a sophisticated AI and ATC application is definitely possible. Existing programs like Ultimate Traffic Live and Pro ATC X, although far from perfect, do an okay job of simulating airline operations to add a level of immersion. Imagine combining two programs like that and giving them the resources that Asobo/X-Box are capable of facilitating.
I just need the 747's World Travel livery. That's enough. (ok, maybe Orbit and Pacifica too)
If it's real world traffic, I wonder if there gonna get lisences form airlines so the American Airlines in the real world are the American Airlines. Also, I'm sure they could put the real world traffic just following the flight plans and are the real world planes, but they still follow the sim ATC because they will still be AI but is the same plane, airlines, and has the same plan as the real world ATC
Joe Sampson Joe Sampson I wonder if they would even use live livery’s rather than the the add on of Ai traffic that we may have all experienced in FS2004 and
@@Junior-xp9gl yeah, I can see that
I’d like to think it’s possible but however it seems so complex I doubt a workable solution could be achieved, I know we have real world traffic in current flight sims, but it doesn’t integrate with ATC unless with this new flight sim maybe it could be programmed to remove one or two aircraft when you request takeoff or landing clearance to make space for you and then you’d hardly notice the difference and might still work it’s hard to say what is actually possible or not really.
Might try both out.
What I think is most important is the ability to actually talk to the ATC using voice recognition like what Pilot2ATC does..... It doesn't bother me whether the traffic is AI or real-world.
They can make the sim traffic control vector you in sim according to the real world traffic.
Great video as always. I have been wondering how flight sim 20/20 will integrate with ATC sim platforms like VATSIM if at all?
its all fun and games but when you fly and see a plane falling from the sky that is where it gets real
only a matter of time before it happens.
Imagine there would be an included Network like Vatsim or Ivao. But just without the need of taking care of Plugins etc...😱
Well ATC is illegal to broadcast in New Zealand so we won't be hearing ATC here
smh
For this level of engineering, I imagine the real world ATC with be overtaken with Game ATC while landing or taking off, etc. Then once a certain spot is reached, Real world ATC takes over again.
So it will have live traffic
Can we tune into real frequencies to listen to?
Know can do it by third party apps but using the in game cockpit UI to change the radio and listen to real radio frequencies would be awesome of it had liveATC.net integration
wow that's just crazy
That ATC tower that you use in your thumbnail is from where i'm from!!! Jersey (JER) wonder if i can land there in game!
The ATC system should be able to simulate a real world flight (happening at that specific time). For example users should be given the option to select a real world flight and simulate that exact flight. The system could grab the flight plan and inject it in MSFS complete with ATC guidance (just as the real world flight), you (the user) then replace that real world flight. MSFS would then issue ATC instructions to fit you in as a replacement . Instructions you receive would be similar to the instructions that would have been given to the aircraft you replaced (altitude, heading, SIDs/STARs etc). I always fly with live ATC in the background and follow my flight on FlightAware (using their flight plan) for (relative) precision.
Your the best X-CHECK!!!
Throw everything you have at us X-Check. I'm hungrey for all the information i can get.
C:
Sounds cool! I can see how they would implement SSR info in the simulator. But no way that ATC's indeed are going to handle simulator traffic from real life (except for the closed training simulators of course). Just be happy with the ATC's that love their job so much, they like doing it in FS as well. Then again, there should really be a website/community where (real life) ATCs should be able to sign up when they're up to control FS traffic as a hobby
Interesting. I have been a flight simmer since day 1. I have been an Air Traffic Controller at ZDC in the DC to NY corridor since 1984. 35 years as a simmer and a real life controller. Let‘s see
Ok so I feel as tho this would be easy. First Microsoft says we have the ability... ability.... to track every plane that doesn’t mean every plane has to be in the game. So you enter in to -airspace-, FS drops a real world plane and you would fall into that “slot”. You have to remember this is only a simulator everything doesn’t have to be 100% accurate for it to be 100% accurate. The problem with vatsim is you have to be proficient with tower communication and not everyone is. Understandably it’s fun for some people to be ultra realistic but not everyone is there. I think it would not be fun taxing through O’Hare with all the traffic going thru. So they’ll probably reduce traffic by maybe 40% or something.
1:21 that's what she said
One word to add to this: separation
First off I think that the voice of the real world controller talking on the channel is pretty hard to simulate, then what if you are cleared for a landing at the same RWY at the same time as a real world A/C is, that could also become a showstopper.
It does indeed seem a bit complicated
I just hope the ATC is smarter and doesn’t force planes to wait forever to cross an active runway or to take off.
Maybe after a while of waiting the real world traffic can disappear to realign with its real flight. (Not realistic I know)
Simulate sync to liveatc.net so radios play in the game. Right now i let it run in background from browser, at least the sound adds to realism.
They could do real life until you ask for taxiing then AI takes over to fit you, once in the air after 5 minutes real life could jump in again. same for arrival once you have been assigned the runway AI takes over until parked.
In the past, AI ATC was always treated like the red headed stepchild by all sim-developers. This sounds even to good to be true. I would love to have current weather and the realworld flight schedules "synched" into the sim, and then a good voice recognition for AI ATC radio communication, like pilot2ATC.
In my perfect little world, i can even have go through ckecklists an procedures with my A.I. copilot...
Now that would be nice
I think there would be (as you named it) options 1 and 3 meaning AI and hybrid. If that's the case, I'd love to use hybrid. I can't see 100% real traffic happening. My thoughts.
WOW WOW WOW!!! that’s creepy but so so soooo COOL!
I think they'll use FlightRadar to spawn the aircraft when appropriate, but then turn it over to AI control... they can't have it fully copying real world traffic, because that real world 747 isn't gonna go around because a virtual Cessna is occupying the runway.
I don't think it will be all ATC activity as that would be way toi much info at once. Airports line Hartsfield Jackson in Atlanta has hundreds of departures and arrivals an hour. That would just crush your pc
I think ATC just needs to be reworked. Better approach and departure vectoring which takes into consideration the terrain around the airport, more realistic ground taxiing, etc, etc. FSX approach vectoring generally vectors you too far off course for too long or too close or directly above high terrain. For example, in FSX the famous Tegucigalpa approach is an unrealistic, straight-in approach above the high terrain, which of course leaves you always too high. Mexico City runway 5 as well. At the same time departure vectoring at times doesn't take into account the terrain and real-life departure vectoring. One of the best examples of this is St Maarten, where AI takeoff, maintain runway heading and skim the mountain top. A wider range of AI traffic is necessary, but not the exact "real World" AI traffic and ATC. That's too complex, but if they can improve the existing default ATC and A.I traffic to a professional real-world standard I think that would be great. And please...NO FACTORY PAINTED BOEING AND AIRBUS OUTSIDE OF SEATTLE OR TOULOUSE PLEASE. Personally, I'd rather see white liveries than these. lol
Christopher Coke Robinson there will be no sufficiently acceptable ATC for us real world pilots that is software based, the only acceptable ATC is either VATSIM or PilotEdge (I prefer the latter).
In xplane we use real live traffic With real flights and routes. Its fun to see traffic in flight radar and xplane. And its free
yep, great point Carlos. I keep trying to emphasis that...x-plane will be difficult to eclipse.
This is either amazing or gonna be one Hell of a time for Trollers and Memers.
I would go to Flightradar24, pick an airport, pick a flight about to depart, and assume that a/c type and identity, then fly the sim according to ATC instructions for that flight. You would "win" if your wheels touched down at the same time as the real flight at the destination.
That does sound like a nice challenge!
@@XCHECK Okay, try it with out touching the autopilot. That way you know you are a pilot and not just a typist.
The Addons been had this. But let’s see how they do
But good question.
They will have to sync you In to the atc.
Based on your departure etc.
Transponder tracking isn't very reliable in other simulators. Most planes disappear immediately after landing, and don't align with runways. I'm sure they could track transponders and use that data to then create virtual flight plans that don't have these issues and don't perfectly match the real world status. It would just require more coding.
I'm hoping we will still be able to run traffic off a networked computer to take the load off the sim CPU
I guess real schedules with simulated AI ATC is the way to go. Otherwise the player could not have any influence on his environment. As a pilot you want to be a part of the whole system. You want to be included like everyone else. Your mistakes might cause problems to others and their mistakes might cause problems to you (delayes for example). If you instead play it like in your own parallel world you would not be integrated at all and still kinda fly for yourself, even if a lof of things are going on around you. Atleast thats my feeling about this.
Also, if Multiplayer will be a thing (and I really really hope it comes with a Shared Cockpit option), even more people will influence to the environment and all of this has to be in sync. I just hope that the ATC itself will be good, not like in X-Plane for example.
Maybe even with voice recognition? that would be great. The technology is there and microsoft has the ressources to use it, so I hope they will.
Indeed I believe that will be the way to go.
Maybe start with real-world, then AI simply "deletes" a selected plane to make a gap for you.
The only problem I can see with that is that you would then have to do whatever that plane did, as quickly as that plane did it. No pausing to look at a chart, and no going ahead and taking off when the other guy paused to look at a chart or change the radios.
Yeah. Or maybe select a free slot in a departure timetable...
I just want it to work with Pilotedge. If it doesn't, I won't be deleting XP11 any time soon
There's already virtual real world ATC for all simulator brands: VATSIM. Free, has the most ATC, and the most pilots. Works with FS2020. See you there.