The s-works you recently restored is absolutely gorgeous. The pink cable housings and grips set it off beautifully. Great work 👍🏼 . I’ve learned a lot watch your videos.
Thanks, glad to hear my childhood memories are of use to other people! I love the pink accents too, my friend who gave me the bike thought it was an awful idea which is why I went and sought out the brightest pink bits I could find to teach him a lesson.
Thanks for talking about brake pad pips. Nice vintage ATB's. That's what I'm into. I started working on and collecting old mtn. bikes about ten years ago and am still learning.
Ha, can't imagine too many people search online for discussion about brake pad pips. I'm still not sure what I think of them. I love the precise clack of Shimano brake blocks, but then they squeal - whereas Suntour or Kool Stop don't squeal but they feel spongy until they bed in. V brakes really are so much better, but they don't count as vintage!
@@red_dread I didnt search. The week before I saw your video I had seen pips for the first time, I proceeded to sand paper them off. I saw your video and was "Oh thats what they are for". I knew the brakes had to be slanted to reduce scwheel however I had been doing it the oppisite way. I'm not a great brake setter and the info you gave shouldve cleared alot of that up. Thank You for taking the time.
When setting up canti's I usually take off the tyre (make sure the wheel is properly seated in the drop outs) and cable strip the pads onto the rim. Then you can easily "mount" the brakes onto the pads. Perfect fit and no hassle.
You might have seen me using a similar technique on the Dyna-Tech restoration video, it's certainly the failsafe way when tolerances are tight. You can even go one step further and sandwich a fold of cardboard between the heel of the brake block and the rim, for toe-in to stop squealing and juddering. I think it was Kool Stop brake blocks that came with a "cut around dotted line" template in the card packaging, which was clever but fiddly.
Thanks, that's lovely to hear. I seem to have memorised every magazine, catalogue and bike spec from my entire childhood, so might as well share some of it! Hope you use some of the tips to bring some old bikes back to life.
They have their pros and cons. Yes they eliminate squeal and make setup slightly easier, but they also make the brakes feel less precise and compromise power until the little knobbles wear off. If I'm brutally honest, I simply can't get those Suntour XC-Pro brakes to work or feel anywhere near as nice as the Shimano equivalents, even though they look so much nicer!
@@brrrt6666 A few have passed through my workshop but I've never had the privilege of owning one. I do think the finish and aesthetic of 80s/90s Suntour was much nicer than Shimano, but the history books prove that Shimano had better business acumen so they won the war.
I know you're a Dyna-Tech man! A couple of my best friends had them when we were growing up and I had the Ridgeback and the Dave Quinn. I loved my two but always respected the quality of the Dyna-Techs. None of us had titanium though, until many years later. It really is light.
I have mixed feelings on them. The equivalent Shimano ones don't have them and therefore can squeal until they bed in, but they're functionally much nicer and less spongy. But XC Pro are aesthetically superior and once they bed in (ie the pips wear off) they are functionally improved too. If I had been a pro team mechanic in 1992, I'd have sliced off those pips with a blade because until they're gone you're not getting full power out of the brakes.
I like my cantilever brakes on my 1995 Specialized M2 Stumpy. With a set of Ritchey pads they work great...I love all 3 of those bikes. I think I'm leaning a bit towards the red one as a favorite, maybe...
One brake block brand (Aztec) back in the day actually had instructions where you could cut around a dotted line and use a fold of the corner of the cardboard packaging. But anything about 1mm thick would do it.
Great vid! Love all the info, thanks for sharing. Feels like I’m going to some secret mtb class they never had at school. The new cantis look great !! I actually prefer cantis over vbrakes haha
My favorite combo is the Dia Compe SS-5 levers with 987 brakes. I prefer the modulation of a cantilever over a v-brake. As for the XC-Pro vs XT debate, I like XT for the shifters, DX rear derailleur, XT chain, Opticlick and SIS cables/housings, DX for the rear hub/freehub. Why DX not XT? Because I've noticed no functional nor longevity of life difference whatsoever, so I prefer to use the lesser because "I don't need it." "Just makes it more of a theft magnet" is how I see it, because the average cyclist looks to the rear derailleur to identify the bike's value. So that's why I like a cheap (actually I removed the sticker from mine) rear derailleur. Everything else, I think XC Pro is sleeker and more refined in its design. There's just no substitute for a good hyperglide shifting system, which is how Shimano dominated, as I am sure you remember.
I've used that Dia-Compe combo a lot. I agree it has better modulation than Shimano, but the downside is it doesn't have that nice positive clack that you get with XT. I always found Dia-Compe felt spongy and imprecise by comparison, no matter how much you fettled. As for DX versus XT, I've scrutinised this and found a lot more differences than visible with the naked eye. Certainly the DX thumbshifters are rubbish compared to XT (see my video on the topic), plus XT hub seals are better. Also there's a difference in weight and finish - the latter of course does indeed attract attention, good and bad!
They’re stunning aren’t they! It’s taken me decades to be any good at setting up post-mount canti blocks, but I still don’t think I make it look particularly slick. Lots of micro adjustments.
I wouldn't be surprised if the idea had been patented by someone else, so Shimano would defend itself and say it was a stupid and unnecessary idea! Also (just between you and me), I'm not a fan of these XC-Pro nodules. They make the brakes feel spongy compared to the XTR ones without the nodules, so I can't wait for the nodules to wear off.
I want to buy and reco an 90s mountain bike the same as l had as a young teen but for the life of me l can't remember what brand it was . Strange that I can't recall and I don't have any photos .
Hey mate loving the vids. I am the process of doing up an old Marin. I could not find a retro set of cantilevers that weren't super over priced imo. I ended up with a set of xtr vbrakes that are really starting to bug me as they look too modern in comparison to the rest of the build. Might have to put on a brand new set of cantilevers I think.
Keep your eyes peeled - there are some bargains to be had. Like I said in the video, some XC-Pro, especially the Scott-Pedersen Self-Energising type are surprisingly plentiful and cheap!
great video. I get all my handle bar grips off in less than 8 seconds using a simple plastic ended Monoject syringe. i use water and one shot and poof they gone. cheers
Same here - works perfectly with ODI and Onza grips on my other retro builds, but these Oury ones were so well stuck down and so tight, plus very soft and thin so easily torn - I had to be very slow and careful. Worked in the end.
Hmmm I don't know why but you mounted the break shoes in the front of the Dave Quinn the wrong way ...they are open to the front . Those XT style breakpad holder should be to the front with the closed side .....just to say ..... ! Have fun!
I can't believe anyone noticed that! Yes I am aware, and there's a reason. You may have seen that until this video the DQ had a Pace fork with the V-brakes rear mounted and therefore backwards. After the fork swap I bolted the brakes on solely for the purpose of the "before and after" footage so there was no need to set them up for riding. I should have known that my audience might be as detail-obsessed as I am. Don't try it at home etc etc.
@@red_dread No worries I'm a bicycle mechanic ...so little details like that just jump into my eyes because they are pretty dangerous ....but for an obsessed person like you well done ! Trust me I have seen way worse than that ! But sometimes just little stupid things like that lead to terrible accidents ... have seen it way to often and that makes me realy sad . Keep up the good work and have a good one !
V-brakes are superior in every way! But they didn't exist when I was an obsessed adolescent, so for purely nostalgic reasons I'm preserving the ancient art of cantis.
Hi, it seems you're an expert on cantilevers :). I'm assembling a bike by now - it doesn't have to be exactly original, just look vintage. Any thoughts on the mechanical differences between narrow and wide calipers?
Firstly, excellent choice to fit cantis - they look cool, especially in a shiny bare alloy finish in my opinion. As for mechanical differences, the original idea behind narrow or "low profile" cantis was for heel clearance - but I don't really get that because I have enormous feet and my heels have never touched anywhere near the back brake. The older style that stick out wide like Dumbo's ears never caused me any problems, and I think they look just as cool. As for leverage ratios, that all depends on your yoke angle rather than the shape of the canti itself. There's a really detailed explanation of this on the Sheldon Brown archive, far better than my method - which as you'll have seen is just to have the yoke as low as possible because we kids thought it looked best!
@@red_dread Yes, alloy finish is the way to go. I have another 28" hybrid dirt bike from second-half nineties, which is 100% original with alloy STX RC components all over. By that time it was already pretty rare. I'll check out Sheldon's page, thanks for the advice. I love your collection!
Inspired by you and other youtubers I’ve bought an old frame to build up. Do you have any advice on finding a mech hanger to fit? Are there templates out there maybe? I don’t mind fabricating my own
They are pretty easy to source, since they were always designed to be replaceable and even disposable. If Specialized itself doesn't carry inventory then eBay saved searches will come correct before too long. As for fabricating your own, that's next level! I haven't tried that myself but I do follow a lot of machine shop guys on Instagram, and there's even a 3D printing guy that works with titanium.
Hi I’m loving your content on vintage mountain bikes, I to lusted after xtr and managed to build a Gt with full xtr M900 my first bike, shamefully I changed the original cantilever brakes for newer xtr vbrakes. Amazingly however I kept the original m900 brake pads which are in their original box, they’re in almost mint condition including the xtr decals and are only slightly used. You mention in this video that they are almost impossible to find! Well it’s your lucky day I would like to donate them to your build, free of charge. If you have a contact number or email address you can forward to me I can send you some pictures and an address so that I can post them out to you.
Wow, another lunatic whose madness manifests as extreme generosity! You definitely belong in a shadowy cartel of eccentric gentlemen collectors. I'm oliver.chesher@yahoo.co.uk, and very excited to see these brake blocks and also your GT. If it's a Zaskar or a Xizang then I may weep openly. Thanks mate.
Oh to be that committed to retro bikes is something to behold. Hats off sir.
It's a disease!
@@red_dread 🤣🤣🤣
The s-works you recently restored is absolutely gorgeous. The pink cable housings and grips set it off beautifully. Great work 👍🏼 . I’ve learned a lot watch your videos.
Thanks, glad to hear my childhood memories are of use to other people! I love the pink accents too, my friend who gave me the bike thought it was an awful idea which is why I went and sought out the brightest pink bits I could find to teach him a lesson.
red_dread LOL! Well done! 😂👏🏼
Thanks for talking about brake pad pips. Nice vintage ATB's. That's what I'm into. I started working on and collecting old mtn. bikes about ten years ago and am still learning.
Ha, can't imagine too many people search online for discussion about brake pad pips. I'm still not sure what I think of them. I love the precise clack of Shimano brake blocks, but then they squeal - whereas Suntour or Kool Stop don't squeal but they feel spongy until they bed in. V brakes really are so much better, but they don't count as vintage!
@@red_dread I didnt search. The week before I saw your video I had seen pips for the first time, I proceeded to sand paper them off. I saw your video and was "Oh thats what they are for". I knew the brakes had to be slanted to reduce scwheel however I had been doing it the oppisite way. I'm not a great brake setter and the info you gave shouldve cleared alot of that up. Thank You for taking the time.
When setting up canti's I usually take off the tyre (make sure the wheel is properly seated in the drop outs) and cable strip the pads onto the rim. Then you can easily "mount" the brakes onto the pads. Perfect fit and no hassle.
You might have seen me using a similar technique on the Dyna-Tech restoration video, it's certainly the failsafe way when tolerances are tight. You can even go one step further and sandwich a fold of cardboard between the heel of the brake block and the rim, for toe-in to stop squealing and juddering. I think it was Kool Stop brake blocks that came with a "cut around dotted line" template in the card packaging, which was clever but fiddly.
All beautiful bikes. I’ve learnt so much during lockdown watching you bike resto work, great info and knowledge 👌
Thanks, that's lovely to hear. I seem to have memorised every magazine, catalogue and bike spec from my entire childhood, so might as well share some of it! Hope you use some of the tips to bring some old bikes back to life.
Have seen the little nobs on Shimano brake pads that came with exage 500ex cantis...
They have their pros and cons. Yes they eliminate squeal and make setup slightly easier, but they also make the brakes feel less precise and compromise power until the little knobbles wear off. If I'm brutally honest, I simply can't get those Suntour XC-Pro brakes to work or feel anywhere near as nice as the Shimano equivalents, even though they look so much nicer!
@@red_dread never gotten my hands on a bike that is fully suntour equipped, love the micro ratchet levers though!
@@brrrt6666 A few have passed through my workshop but I've never had the privilege of owning one. I do think the finish and aesthetic of 80s/90s Suntour was much nicer than Shimano, but the history books prove that Shimano had better business acumen so they won the war.
@@red_dread a collector of your stature will surely call one it's own someday 💪
I think your daughter has picked her favourite...
Canti's may not be cutting edge but my STX, with Koolstops, still lock up the back wheel of my old Lava Dome.
Kool Stops rule, I used them on my Dia-Compe 987s back in the day and you could skid for miles!
I think your daughter has picked her favourite...
The Suntour brakes are a great find. Very nice!
I know XC-Pro on an XT bike is weird but I did it when I first built that bike in 93 and it looks and works beautifully!
Love it, yet again another great video, can't wait for the next ! The Dyna-tech is my favourite😋
I know you're a Dyna-Tech man! A couple of my best friends had them when we were growing up and I had the Ridgeback and the Dave Quinn. I loved my two but always respected the quality of the Dyna-Techs. None of us had titanium though, until many years later. It really is light.
Never noticed those brake pad pips. Putting my nerd glasses on now and looking at all of my bikes for it.
I have mixed feelings on them. The equivalent Shimano ones don't have them and therefore can squeal until they bed in, but they're functionally much nicer and less spongy. But XC Pro are aesthetically superior and once they bed in (ie the pips wear off) they are functionally improved too. If I had been a pro team mechanic in 1992, I'd have sliced off those pips with a blade because until they're gone you're not getting full power out of the brakes.
I like my cantilever brakes on my 1995 Specialized M2 Stumpy. With a set of Ritchey pads they work great...I love all 3 of those bikes. I think I'm leaning a bit towards the red one as a favorite, maybe...
I rode the red one yesterday and it's so fast! The new brakes work perfectly.
Being a kludger I didn't know about the toe in on the brake pads. I shall borrow a suitable shim and put that to right 👍
One brake block brand (Aztec) back in the day actually had instructions where you could cut around a dotted line and use a fold of the corner of the cardboard packaging. But anything about 1mm thick would do it.
Awesome bikes and video
Great vid! Love all the info, thanks for sharing. Feels like I’m going to some secret mtb class they never had at school. The new cantis look great !! I actually prefer cantis over vbrakes haha
Stay tuned, next one's a UK MTB history lesson!
red_dread I’ll have my notebook ready
Nice Bikes, but that S-Works is very sexy! Thanks for sharing!
I really love the colour! My 3-year old agrees too, it's her favourite in my entire collection.
LOVE THE Ti KOGA IN PURPLE the rest are nice too
My favorite combo is the Dia Compe SS-5 levers with 987 brakes. I prefer the modulation of a cantilever over a v-brake. As for the XC-Pro vs XT debate, I like XT for the shifters, DX rear derailleur, XT chain, Opticlick and SIS cables/housings, DX for the rear hub/freehub. Why DX not XT? Because I've noticed no functional nor longevity of life difference whatsoever, so I prefer to use the lesser because "I don't need it." "Just makes it more of a theft magnet" is how I see it, because the average cyclist looks to the rear derailleur to identify the bike's value. So that's why I like a cheap (actually I removed the sticker from mine) rear derailleur. Everything else, I think XC Pro is sleeker and more refined in its design. There's just no substitute for a good hyperglide shifting system, which is how Shimano dominated, as I am sure you remember.
I've used that Dia-Compe combo a lot. I agree it has better modulation than Shimano, but the downside is it doesn't have that nice positive clack that you get with XT. I always found Dia-Compe felt spongy and imprecise by comparison, no matter how much you fettled. As for DX versus XT, I've scrutinised this and found a lot more differences than visible with the naked eye. Certainly the DX thumbshifters are rubbish compared to XT (see my video on the topic), plus XT hub seals are better. Also there's a difference in weight and finish - the latter of course does indeed attract attention, good and bad!
WIsh you'd showed your canti tweaking! Love those gold XC Pros
They’re stunning aren’t they! It’s taken me decades to be any good at setting up post-mount canti blocks, but I still don’t think I make it look particularly slick. Lots of micro adjustments.
just use an air compressor for grips, way easier because you don't have to mess about with different liquids and such
We need to start a letter-writing campaign to Shimano re: canti brake block toe-in nodules!
I wouldn't be surprised if the idea had been patented by someone else, so Shimano would defend itself and say it was a stupid and unnecessary idea! Also (just between you and me), I'm not a fan of these XC-Pro nodules. They make the brakes feel spongy compared to the XTR ones without the nodules, so I can't wait for the nodules to wear off.
Wow! Dr. Frankenbike o_o
I want to buy and reco an 90s mountain bike the same as l had as a young teen but for the life of me l can't remember what brand it was .
Strange that I can't recall and I don't have any photos .
Hey mate loving the vids. I am the process of doing up an old Marin. I could not find a retro set of cantilevers that weren't super over priced imo. I ended up with a set of xtr vbrakes that are really starting to bug me as they look too modern in comparison to the rest of the build. Might have to put on a brand new set of cantilevers I think.
Keep your eyes peeled - there are some bargains to be had. Like I said in the video, some XC-Pro, especially the Scott-Pedersen Self-Energising type are surprisingly plentiful and cheap!
@@red_dread Yeah cheers for that. Will check out ebay again.
Dr. Frankenbike's Laboratory 🤣👍
Why the obsession with the most super high end components - it becomes a Fetish!
Bad ass thank you sir 👍
great video. I get all my handle bar grips off in less than 8 seconds using a simple plastic ended Monoject syringe. i use water and one shot and poof they gone. cheers
Same here - works perfectly with ODI and Onza grips on my other retro builds, but these Oury ones were so well stuck down and so tight, plus very soft and thin so easily torn - I had to be very slow and careful. Worked in the end.
@@red_dread perhaps they were installed the older alcohol hairspray way. that really did a job on the compounds of some grips.
All gorgeous bikes. Wish i could have something like this. But my Marlin 5 gets the job done hahahahaha
You'd be amazed what you can find really cheap if you search in the right places! If you watch enough videos like these you might get some ideas.
Ive seen a few listed in my area. But a lot of them seem to be like too much work hahahahaha
Hmmm I don't know why but you mounted the break shoes in the front of the Dave Quinn the wrong way ...they are open to the front . Those XT style breakpad holder should be to the front with the closed side .....just to say ..... ! Have fun!
I can't believe anyone noticed that! Yes I am aware, and there's a reason. You may have seen that until this video the DQ had a Pace fork with the V-brakes rear mounted and therefore backwards. After the fork swap I bolted the brakes on solely for the purpose of the "before and after" footage so there was no need to set them up for riding. I should have known that my audience might be as detail-obsessed as I am. Don't try it at home etc etc.
@@red_dread No worries I'm a bicycle mechanic ...so little details like that just jump into my eyes because they are pretty dangerous ....but for an obsessed person like you well done ! Trust me I have seen way worse than that ! But sometimes just little stupid things like that lead to terrible accidents ... have seen it way to often and that makes me realy sad . Keep up the good work and have a good one !
its kinda difficult to find the cantilever shoe here in indonesia.. and once its available the price is sky rocketing
Same here - you'll see in my latest videos I've upgraded with a modern aftermarket equivalent, but will always keep my eyes open...
I don know but I'm more a Vbrake team. Great video tough.
V-brakes are superior in every way! But they didn't exist when I was an obsessed adolescent, so for purely nostalgic reasons I'm preserving the ancient art of cantis.
@@red_dread you're right
Hi, it seems you're an expert on cantilevers :). I'm assembling a bike by now - it doesn't have to be exactly original, just look vintage. Any thoughts on the mechanical differences between narrow and wide calipers?
Firstly, excellent choice to fit cantis - they look cool, especially in a shiny bare alloy finish in my opinion. As for mechanical differences, the original idea behind narrow or "low profile" cantis was for heel clearance - but I don't really get that because I have enormous feet and my heels have never touched anywhere near the back brake. The older style that stick out wide like Dumbo's ears never caused me any problems, and I think they look just as cool. As for leverage ratios, that all depends on your yoke angle rather than the shape of the canti itself. There's a really detailed explanation of this on the Sheldon Brown archive, far better than my method - which as you'll have seen is just to have the yoke as low as possible because we kids thought it looked best!
@@red_dread Yes, alloy finish is the way to go. I have another 28" hybrid dirt bike from second-half nineties, which is 100% original with alloy STX RC components all over. By that time it was already pretty rare.
I'll check out Sheldon's page, thanks for the advice.
I love your collection!
Inspired by you and other youtubers I’ve bought an old frame to build up. Do you have any advice on finding a mech hanger to fit? Are there templates out there maybe? I don’t mind fabricating my own
The bike is a ‘98 Specialized Rockhopper FS
They are pretty easy to source, since they were always designed to be replaceable and even disposable. If Specialized itself doesn't carry inventory then eBay saved searches will come correct before too long. As for fabricating your own, that's next level! I haven't tried that myself but I do follow a lot of machine shop guys on Instagram, and there's even a 3D printing guy that works with titanium.
red_dread thanks, i think I’ve sourced one since posting this :)
Hi I’m loving your content on vintage mountain bikes, I to lusted after xtr and managed to build a Gt with full xtr M900 my first bike, shamefully I changed the original cantilever brakes for newer xtr vbrakes. Amazingly however I kept the original m900 brake pads which are in their original box, they’re in almost mint condition including the xtr decals and are only slightly used. You mention in this video that they are almost impossible to find! Well it’s your lucky day I would like to donate them to your build, free of charge. If you have a contact number or email address you can forward to me I can send you some pictures and an address so that I can post them out to you.
Wow, another lunatic whose madness manifests as extreme generosity! You definitely belong in a shadowy cartel of eccentric gentlemen collectors. I'm oliver.chesher@yahoo.co.uk, and very excited to see these brake blocks and also your GT. If it's a Zaskar or a Xizang then I may weep openly. Thanks mate.
are you on instagram
Yes, I’m Oliver.Chesher, but there’s not so much retrobike content on there!
@@red_dread okay... i'm Bikebronko:D
I think your daughter has picked her favourite...