PCB can be fine, my 1970s Marshall master volume combo has a PCB, but the valve bases have the good sense to be mounted to the chassis. It's nearly 50 years old, and if I can keep getting replacement parts, it'll outlive me.
Yea how sure man. This video wasn’t made to shit on PCB. It was more to show how many other options are out there for less or the same money that are built better.
Yep, I had a Fended Quad reverb in my bedroom, bass, drum machine Guitar and vocals all in 1 combo and because it had 4 speakers it could be played at lower vol and have a big sound.
I don’t know if the problem itself is the PCB over handwired. Psionic audio recently did a video fixing a handwired deluxe reverb 64’ reissue. He really ripped a new one on Fender for doing such a bad work on it. I do agree with you though, vintage amps over modern ones. There’s some great “affordable” options out there.
I'd be interested to hear your opinion on Orange and Mesa Boogie amps. I purchased an orange TH30 head about 10-12 years ago and haven't had any issues with it. At the time I knew nothing about amps, but LOVED the distortion. The only thing I don't like about it is that the clean channel is three times as loud as the dirty channel. I want to say I paid about 1200 for it new. More recently I purchased the super crush 100 (solid state). Even if this one is built like crap I am okay with it because it was only 500 and I will never have to pay for tubes. I am considering another tube amp. Is Mesa Boogie worth the money? Not sure if a combo is necessary since I have a couple 2x12 orange cabinets that are super light weight.
I tell you. I have trashed so many tube amps I don't like to even think about it. Honestly I have learned to get the tone I need without tubes. Is it a compromise because of durability? That might be part of it. At the end of the day if I like the sound, the folks in the crowd will too. No way I will ever buy another PC tube amp. I wouldn't give 200 bucks for the new Gibson amp.
I think you're getting way too hung up on the fact that these amps have a PCB. Lots of great amps, including amps from some of the boutique manufacturers you mentioned use PCBs on some of their models. Hell, you initially expressed that you were excited that Mesa was building these Gibson amps... Mesa have been using PCBs since pretty much the beginning; Randall Smith LOVES PCBs. A good amp in my book is one that sounds good, is reliable, and is serviceable. A well-constructed PCB amp can be all three of those things. I personally don't know enough about the Falcon to comment on its quality (though I also don't love the board-mounted tubes). That said, it doesn't seem like you have any actual experience with the amp either, so it begs the question: why should anyone take you seriously? Basically, you just posted a typical TheGearPage forum comment in video form. The funny part is that you disparage the channels that published glowing reviews after having played the amp, like your "expert analysis" of the spec sheet and a random gut shot you found on a forum is somehow more valuable than actual hands-on experience. I'm actually kinda jealous of your ability to spew half-assed conjecture on the internet with such unearned confidence! I guess that's why I don't make UA-cam videos; I'd actually want to know what I was talking about before I went in front of a camera. That sounds like too much work. Anyway, good luck with the channel!
@@theuserthatishere That’s really not true. Every control knob, switch, jack etc is wired separately and fully serviceable. You’re conflating the term “point to point” with “hand wired”. Hand Wired isn’t a constriction technique. It’s just describing an American worker, in Petaluma California installing the PC board, populating it, soldering it and then wiring all of the controls. THATS where the price comes in. Go check Glassdoor on a mid level factory worker in the states. Then go look at a new Ampeg SVT. It’s completely built in Vietnam and it’s almost entirely unserviceable. They just swap the entire board for warranty work.
i dont know about the guts inside; but i picked up an older vox valvetronix for 150 and it has all the tube sound i need. one day maybe ill consider another with less options, but for now i love it
any amp in that price range is gonna be pcb if you want point to point hand wired you're paying 3000 plus that's the way it is now days..right or wrong
The problem isn't just the PCB. Gibson calls these "hand wired". Putting quick connects into sockets is not hand wiring. The components, layout, design and construction are the problems. The way the PCB's are made and being used are the problem. These amps are just cash grabs that are designed to be disposable tech.
Hi, nice video , i want an American tone amp with the 6v6 or 6l6 tubes , and don't want a fender would you recommend this amp ? also does it take pedals well ? thanks
@@johnnyguitar-uu3zr right now on reverb they have brand new Greer Cam 18 heads for 2400$. I’ve owned dozens of 6v6 amps honestly. And I have two of those a combo and a head and cab. And it is the best 6v6 amp I have ever played. And he just built a new small batch. There is three left. They are extremely hard to find. If I was you I would snatch one up asap
Agree 100%. The big names are'nt investing in people anymore, basic training in electrical soldering and wiring should be a basic skill offered to employees at all levels if they want it, helps them understand the products and maybe have some pride in thier day-job efforts....meanwhile ",Rock n Roll" amps is where I go.
It's a sad reality. There is nothing wrong with using PCB as long as it's properly constructed with the right thickness and properly sized tracings. Fryette, Friedman and Suhr come to mind. The problem I have with this is the price Gibson is charging for such an amp, especially since it says "handwired". Hell the Marshall 2203 reissue is built better and doesn't say handwired. Still not cheap if you're outside of Europe or the UK, but those things are built like the originals and can survive a lot of abuse. It's only become a money grab.
Yea I agree 100%. I didn’t mean to totally shit on PCB construction amps. Some can be made and later out well and be fine. It’s just for that price point you almost expect something that was point to point.
Most new products from the big corporations from now on are going to be introduced at 30-50% higher MSRP than what we were used to. Pre-Biden and CARES Act these were $800 - $1100 MSRP amps, at best.
It would be interesting to know how much it costs Gibson to produce the Falcon 20. Looking at your screenshot of the electronics of it, it does look clean and I think it would be easy for an amp tech to work on, and has common components and not hundreds of those little tiny chips that you need a magnifying glass and specialized equipment to work on. I can't believe the tubes are soldered to the board, are you saying that normal people can't pull the tubes out to replace or mod on their own? That sounds crazy. The thickness of the PCB board is important, I would like to know the quality/thickness of the PCB is. We'll find out the reliability of these once they get out there, however right now if I was going to purchase one of these I would do my homework for sure because you don't seem to be getting a whole lot for the price you are paying, so the parts better be top quality to offset the price.
I went in to my local long and mquaid Because I’m a Canuck Played through several versions of Princeton Wound up buying the hand wired 64 reverb with tremelo Payed way too much. But Easily modified the trem to make it slower and have an amp that will actually live and be easily serviced for the rest of my life And running it through different speakers makes the world of tones at your fingertips So In retrospect and moving forward I’m going to do hand wired kit amps and make my own cabinets etc Speakers are the other element and I’ll have to buy those. Just don’t have the skill and gear to rebuild great old ones and I’m happy with todays options
For the price of this just look for vintage. Lets see, old Gibson, Epiphone, Silvertone, Supro, Danelectro, and even some Fender can be had all day everyday for less than $1800. Find a good tech and the amp will outlive you👍
Get that a silver face is better than new stuff. But some of the CBS stuff (silver face Fender amps) are a bit lacking compared to the black face versions. The story was CBS wanted to amps to 'hi-fi stereo' clean - not all, but some models. Good news the silver face amps can be modded back to black face if you choose to do so. For me it's up to the player and what you like. Had a couple of friends that bought matching Twins back in '67/68 which sounded very nice. They were fortunate with theirs as the Twin was one that didn't have circuit changes until a bit later. That's what I was always told - so I apologize if my info is wrong. I've got a '56 Pro that works so well with my 335 that I'm never gonna sell it. It'll go to my son who plays after I die.
In 35 years of heavy-duty use. I have never had a problem with an amp because of a problem with a printed circuit board. Going on about this is like whining about the difference between through hole and surface mounts resistors: the electrons don't care. Also, the tubes are NOT soldered onto the circuit board, the tube sockets are! The only thing I would agree with is that the Gibson price is over the top for an amp that is probably built for $250. Frankly, you can get a pretty good amp these days for $500.
You could buy 5 x Peavey Classic 30s for the same price as these where I live lol, I would be happy to spend that much on a Fender/Marshall/Vox HW/PTP vintage reissue of a famed amp, but not for just a "regular" level amp
No the tube sockets are mounted directly to the board. Which isn’t always the worst thing but it all Comes down to design. If it’s Not done properly you can ruin your board.
Great video, way to educate people shopping and trying to understand value / build quality. A couple of years I picked up a 1964 Gibson Skylark for about $250 and spent another $300 getting it serviced and ever so slightly modified (there is actually a Guitologist video about the work). It is now an incredible sounding amp that will keep its value. I was interested when I saw these new ones, figured it was cool of Gibson to get back to producing amazing amps of their past. I guess they are NOT reproducing amazing amps of the past but selling crap with their name on it. Sad.
Nothing really wrong with pcbs... it's just a way to mount components (some will say it will affect the sound but that depends more on the layout I think); maintenance - wise, the only difference from p2p is the laziness of the guy who is supposed to repair it. BUT... valves on a PCB are a big NO, even if pre tubes are not going to run very hot, I can see this causing a lot of problems in the medium term. Cabinet, speaker, transformers are the most important part of the sound
my amps: 1964 fender BF DR, Matchless sc 30, Matchless HC head, and 2/12 cab, (recommended by John Jorgenson years ago) old Traynor head, 2/12 custom closed cabinet with Celestion sidewinders. Sold - Mint jcm 800 Head and cab-one trick pony Toneless amp., 1965 Super Reverb in showroom condition still!!! Regret selling the Super -a wife thing. oh well.
After Gibson came out with their new version of the Falcon amplifier. The older original models from the early 1960's suddenly became popular. All Gibson had to do was copy the original Falcon amps they didn't have to buy another amp company and have the Falcon redesigned and have the old name slapped on it. I use to own one of the 1960 Falcons. They were a very simple design that functioned well and sounded great. They were only 15 to 20 watts with a 12 inch speaker and tremolo control pedal. It was given to me in 1971 and I owned it until 2012. During that era bigger louder amps were needed to compete with other louder instrument on stage. Now bands are using smaller, lighter amps that produce more volume than they use to. Every body is downsizing there gear.
Brad the Guitologist doesnt like them either.... I think Gibson rely too much on the name. You didnt mention the Peavey Valve king as an affordable valve amp, I have a 112 and it sounds as good as most others ive heard and has been reliable.....Cheers
Brad the Guitologist also promoted activists harassing elderly people buying groceries because they were wearing face masks and threatened his kids school administrators so… might want to take his advise with a grain of salt.
I just bought a Port City (small builder in North Carolina) Merino. 20 watts, PTP construction, based on a Fender Harvard circuit, two knobs and the truth. The amp will likely outlive me. Bags of tone, built like a tank. $1950.
Yea man that’s what I’m saying. This video wasn’t made to shit on PCB built amps. It was to show there are sooooooo many better options for less money or the same.
So Gibson wants $1799 for a 12 watt Falcon 20 when for the same price I can get a Friedman Little Sister 20 watt. amp with full EQ and a master volume. Thanks Gibson but no thanks.
If you go to a store and like the Gibson falcon… save yourself 1300 bucks and just get a used American peavey classic. You’ll be getting the same pcb poorly laid out mediocre tube amp with a meh speaker but you have enough left over to get a used American Strat to go with it lol plus if the amp dies you can get a new one with the change hidden under your couch cushion
I want a higher gain low watt gigging amp with Reverb/Vibrato. No pedals. Amulet or Falcon. All these others are apples and oranges regardless of how great a "deal" they are.
@@pureguitargear3935 I'll run a Flint in front of any of my favorite amps, Dr. Monza, Brown Princeton, etc. I like the gainier Falcon/Amulet sounds with Rev/Vib. Princetons are less aggressive. Good discussion thank you!
@@pureguitargear3935 You didn't buy one, but you just took a dump all over it. That's kinda weak, no? IMO, you need hours and hours of hands on before forming an opinion of any kind. Don't ever judge a book by its cover
Agreed. It’s more geared towards people who might not nerd out as much as we do and think they are getting a hand wired amp. Ya know because it says “hand wired” on the back of it lol
Most amplifier manufacturers use PCB. Almost all electronic devices use PCB. A well-designed PCB amp can perform just as well as a hand wired amp. If all amps were hand wired there would be no way to meet the demand.
@@pureguitargear3935 I hear ya. I would just say don't get disillusioned by the allure of a hand wired amp because there are a lot of less than great hand wired amps. Everybody is trying to increase their bottom line so lesser quality components often get used. You also leave yourself susceptible to poor wiring because someone doesn't know what they are doing. It can be a crapshoot.
@@pureguitargear3935 i really don't get the glorification of ,,hand-wired" amps...it just does not matter if its a quality PCB were the routing is done correctly. The electrons don't care where they are going through...
Sooo ... me is a little bit puzzled PCBs can be great ... Mesa ... Modern Marshalls ... The Problem with this amp: tube sockets are directly on the board -> tendency to roast the board BUT why are so many people so angry about Gibson Gibson is selling - not so - well built stuff at a ridiculous price point since .... Big name does imply BUT not actually is great Prods & QS ... Gibson QS:
Offering solutions or better options is a great start and much appreciated, but if you're going to build this channel and be taken seriously you really need to make sure you hit your bends when you perform. "Serious players" as you call them do not bend to the wrong pitch or at least do not intentionally stay there that long without a clean resolution to the intended note. Keep practicing. You'll get there!
Turns out the whole "boutique" thing doesn't age well in terms of selling price. Dentists want new stuff! I bought a used Milkman for, like 1500 bucks a few years ago. It's amazing. 😁
Have to disagree on the newer Vox amps. They are PCB done right with thick boards, through-hole plated double sided, separate boards for different sections of the amp, etc. They’re built to meet a price point and are priced appropriately. But these new Gibsons are garbage. Why in the world did they decide to mount the preamp tubes inside the chassis? Other amps whose quality punch way above their price: new Harmony amps and Ceriatone.
I agree with you. If PCB is done right it can be fine. That being said. At a price point of almost 2k. I expect and hand made. Point to point amp. Maybe times are changing but it just blows my mind.
🙄 Mesa = Has NEVER point-to-point wired amplifiers, ever. This just seems like such a crazy take. Mesa builds some of the best cabinetry, tolex and fit/finish in the business. As opposed to Friedman/Soldano/Bogner that are all built in the same factory… Who says the tubes are “soldered to the board”? They’re not. It’s a design choice to direct mount the ceramic tube sockets to the board. It’s a SUPER sturdy board and all of the controls, jacks and failure points are flying lead so they can be easily fixed. You’re entitled to your opinion but… you are spewing “Brad the Guitologist” goofball takes. It’s expensive, yes. But show me a post or mention of “poor quality control”. Take a look at a 70s Boogie Mk1… all pCB and they were like 5k with inflation, still rolling with a simple cap job… guess Pete Townsend, Carlos Santana, Keith Richard’s, Metallica, John Petrucci, etc are all uninformed noobs? …and good luck buying a boutique amp and finding a competent tech who can get a proper schematic for some one off garage build you like from instagram.
I totally agree with you. It's a cheap ass made piece of crap that is way overpriced. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. It also says it's hand wired on the chassis. wtf, man. That is stretching that term a LOT. Tons of better options out there for sure. I do have to say though, that's an interesting speaker they have in there (12” Jensen Blackbird 40 Alnico Speaker). I never saw anything like that.
Back in the 60's you used Gibson amps only if you got a hell of a deal from the dealer. Everybody else played Fenders. The Gibsons sounded like crap... I was there!
Suhr and Friedman also make PCB amps. I agree that these Gibson amps are overpriced, but you might want to consider editing out the things you say that are contradictory and nonsensical.
I didn’t say all PCB amps are bad. The point of the video is for that price point you aren’t getting the quality you are getting from Suhr and Friedman.
Every demo I've heard from these amps makes me want to run in the opposite direction. The cleans are serviceable, but the dirty sounds are absolutely not my thing. Your advice is spot on.
oh for crips, quit with the click bait angst.... those are Awesome amps for people of such tastes....if you don't like them, get something else; but don't slam them.
@@pureguitargear3935 On the folly of "Greening the Sahara" We Can Not Solve Hunger With Food, Anymore Than We Can Solve Homelessness By Building More Breeding Bins ( housing ) you know where they get all their cattle feed, don't you ??? they used their heroin to DECIMATE TWO FEET OF AMERICAN TOPSOIL TO NEAR DESERT, JUST IN THE LAST 50 YEARS !!! freakin "do gooder" heroin addicts are out of their freakin minds. do they know that those "unmentionables" actually think our attempts to divert addicts onto safe, clean, regulated prescriptions was an act of war !!! They Do Not Seem To Understand People Wanting To Protect Their Vital Resources !!! And That's Because, When They Have Food, They Breed Faster Than The Food Grows !!! Until They Run Out, Then, They Withhold Nutrients From Their Own Starving Children That They Have The Energy To Make More, And Or Eat Each Other. In Fact: The Anthropological Definition Of Cannibal Is Synonymous With "Ni_g_rs Who Live On Small Islands" because they don't have the decades long cycles of feast and famine that they did, prior to Raping Our Entire World Of It Vital Resources, on the african continent.
I mostly agree with you. But lots of high end amps are built with PCB. The issue is the quality of the PCB, the design, and the workmanship. The Gibson PCB looks like garbage.
dude... sounds like a lot of whining, peppered with insulting your listeners because maybe they want a new amp. I don't have a fetish about hand wired, or heavy, or old. I love old amps, but you also take a risk buying an old amp sight-unseen from Reverb. I wonder how the new Falcon 20 sounds, but I'll have to watch someone else's video to find out. C'mon, dude. Maybe less ranting and more sound demos and comparisons. Maybe play the Falcon 20 next to your cool old amps and let us hear the difference.
Thanks man. I got a bunch of hate about this video actually lol. I’m just coming from gigging musician who gigs a bunch and I want an amp that can be fixed easily and not wait for a pcb board from the company.
The new Fender 65 deluxe reverb is $1599. The tubes are mounted on the chassis, not the pcb board. You aren't going to get "new with a warranty" hand wired anything in the under $2k price range of any brand. Much of the time, buying used, you're buying someone else's problem. Been there, done that a few times, soon finding the reason someone no longer wanted it. It goes straight to the amp tech for a $400 diagnosis why the fkng thing is crackling at half volume, only to throw the parts cannon at it for another $400, and take 3 months for it to come back.
Modern FM4+ PCB is thermal and mechanically solid. Those mesa amps are not going to break easily if the tubes are mounted to the board or chassis. Just a useless informed video.
That’s weird my buddy had a new Mesa Filmore. PCB board burned up after a month of hard gigging. Took 4 months to get a replacement board. If it was point to point the tech could have a replaced a few components. But yea totally.
I don't care what happens those tubes should not be mounted on the board that is done to save money. Maybe it won't melt but knowing I spent $2,000 on an amp that is cutting corners would keep me awake. Also it says hand wired on the back of the chassis. What did Gibson think no one would notice
@@pureguitargear3935 They sell 1,000s of almost every model of amp that they make. If he was using it correctly then your buddy had a lemon, clearly - or else the rep of certain M/B models far and wide would be "burns up within months of gigging". 💡
@@pureguitargear3935 You have no idea what you’re talking about! People like you shouldn’t have a UA-cam channel! You was talking about finding a boutique amp cheap you mentioned Matchless by name. You know those amps are expensive. Hand wired are expensive you should know that
All this BS about PCBs and how you would take a matchelss and a silver face... and you have a Yamaha modeling amp on screen with you. Stop being ridiculous. PCB amps have been around since the 70s. Even Psionic audio will tell you to get over it, it's 2024. Also, maybe learn what "point to point" actually is.
PCB can be fine, my 1970s Marshall master volume combo has a PCB, but the valve bases have the good sense to be mounted to the chassis.
It's nearly 50 years old, and if I can keep getting replacement parts, it'll outlive me.
Look at McIntosh Amps pcb no hand wire in sight
Yeah but this isn't that amp. Not even close.
@@weschiltondefinitely. There are ways to make a decent PCB amp, but it doesn't look like Mesa have done.
Yea how sure man. This video wasn’t made to shit on PCB. It was more to show how many other options are out there for less or the same money that are built better.
As a clueless teenager in the 1970s I bought a used AC30 Top Boost to practise in me bedrooom! 😂
I bed it sounded fuckin awesome ‘
What was that, again? Did somebody say something??...Lemee turn this amp down a bit lol
Yep, I had a Fended Quad reverb in my bedroom, bass, drum machine Guitar and vocals all in 1 combo and because it had 4 speakers it could be played at lower vol and have a big sound.
LOL I would've loved to see your initial reaction when you first fired it up.
You must've been like, holy sh.....!!!
Your parents and neighbors must have been syched
High volume, low cost, maximum profits. Corporate mindset is ruining everything
The Laney Lion Heart range are made in UK or Cornell Amps are great I hear made by hand in UK.
I don’t know if the problem itself is the PCB over handwired. Psionic audio recently did a video fixing a handwired deluxe reverb 64’ reissue. He really ripped a new one on Fender for doing such a bad work on it. I do agree with you though, vintage amps over modern ones. There’s some great “affordable” options out there.
I'd be interested to hear your opinion on Orange and Mesa Boogie amps. I purchased an orange TH30 head about 10-12 years ago and haven't had any issues with it. At the time I knew nothing about amps, but LOVED the distortion. The only thing I don't like about it is that the clean channel is three times as loud as the dirty channel. I want to say I paid about 1200 for it new. More recently I purchased the super crush 100 (solid state). Even if this one is built like crap I am okay with it because it was only 500 and I will never have to pay for tubes.
I am considering another tube amp. Is Mesa Boogie worth the money? Not sure if a combo is necessary since I have a couple 2x12 orange cabinets that are super light weight.
I’m not saying all PCB is bad. My main point was that for this price point. Then I would have expected.
I tell you. I have trashed so many tube amps I don't like to even think about it. Honestly I have learned to get the tone I need without tubes. Is it a compromise because of durability? That might be part of it. At the end of the day if I like the sound, the folks in the crowd will too. No way I will ever buy another PC tube amp. I wouldn't give 200 bucks for the new Gibson amp.
I think you're getting way too hung up on the fact that these amps have a PCB. Lots of great amps, including amps from some of the boutique manufacturers you mentioned use PCBs on some of their models. Hell, you initially expressed that you were excited that Mesa was building these Gibson amps... Mesa have been using PCBs since pretty much the beginning; Randall Smith LOVES PCBs. A good amp in my book is one that sounds good, is reliable, and is serviceable. A well-constructed PCB amp can be all three of those things.
I personally don't know enough about the Falcon to comment on its quality (though I also don't love the board-mounted tubes). That said, it doesn't seem like you have any actual experience with the amp either, so it begs the question: why should anyone take you seriously? Basically, you just posted a typical TheGearPage forum comment in video form. The funny part is that you disparage the channels that published glowing reviews after having played the amp, like your "expert analysis" of the spec sheet and a random gut shot you found on a forum is somehow more valuable than actual hands-on experience. I'm actually kinda jealous of your ability to spew half-assed conjecture on the internet with such unearned confidence! I guess that's why I don't make UA-cam videos; I'd actually want to know what I was talking about before I went in front of a camera. That sounds like too much work.
Anyway, good luck with the channel!
yeah but gibson lied and said handwired
@@theuserthatishere That’s really not true. Every control knob, switch, jack etc is wired separately and fully serviceable. You’re conflating the term “point to point” with “hand wired”. Hand Wired isn’t a constriction technique. It’s just describing an American worker, in Petaluma California installing the PC board, populating it, soldering it and then wiring all of the controls. THATS where the price comes in. Go check Glassdoor on a mid level factory worker in the states.
Then go look at a new Ampeg SVT. It’s completely built in Vietnam and it’s almost entirely unserviceable. They just swap the entire board for warranty work.
Very well put!
i dont know about the guts inside; but i picked up an older vox valvetronix for 150 and it has all the tube sound i need. one day maybe ill consider another with less options, but for now i love it
any amp in that price range is gonna be pcb
if you want point to point hand wired you're paying 3000 plus
that's the way it is now days..right or wrong
My VHT is point to point and not $3k for sure. Custom built amps can be built for much less than $3K
The problem isn't just the PCB. Gibson calls these "hand wired". Putting quick connects into sockets is not hand wiring. The components, layout, design and construction are the problems. The way the PCB's are made and being used are the problem. These amps are just cash grabs that are designed to be disposable tech.
@@NEKingdom241hahahahahahaha
aren't all Mesas PCB???
Hi, nice video , i want an American tone amp with the 6v6 or 6l6 tubes , and don't want a fender would you recommend this amp ? also does it take pedals well ? thanks
How much money do you want to spend ?
@@pureguitargear3935 not sure under 2,000 Low watt up to 20 watts
@@johnnyguitar-uu3zr right now on reverb they have brand new Greer Cam 18 heads for 2400$. I’ve owned dozens of 6v6 amps honestly. And I have two of those a combo and a head and cab. And it is the best 6v6 amp I have ever played. And he just built a new small batch. There is three left. They are extremely hard to find. If I was you I would snatch one up asap
@@johnnyguitar-uu3zr and I forgot the cam 18 is also switchable between 6v6 and 6l6 tubes with out re-biasing
Spot on man. Not gonna lie I kinda got caught in the hype. The sound good on the tube, but just look inside. Appreciate the pics of the the internals.
Agree 100%. The big names are'nt investing in people anymore, basic training in electrical soldering and wiring should be a basic skill offered to employees at all levels if they want it, helps them understand the products and maybe have some pride in thier day-job efforts....meanwhile ",Rock n Roll" amps is where I go.
Now go back to the drawing board and build a hand wired clone of the '60 Ranger and save your company from bankruptcy.
It's a sad reality.
There is nothing wrong with using PCB as long as it's properly constructed with the right thickness and properly sized tracings. Fryette, Friedman and Suhr come to mind.
The problem I have with this is the price Gibson is charging for such an amp, especially since it says "handwired".
Hell the Marshall 2203 reissue is built better and doesn't say handwired. Still not cheap if you're outside of Europe or the UK, but those things are built like the originals and can survive a lot of abuse.
It's only become a money grab.
Yea I agree 100%. I didn’t mean to totally shit on PCB construction amps. Some can be made and later out well and be fine. It’s just for that price point you almost expect something that was point to point.
You're definitely paying for the name. I agree, get a vintage amp and a Torpedo for when you want to play quiet.
Most new products from the big corporations from now on are going to be introduced at 30-50% higher MSRP than what we were used to.
Pre-Biden and CARES Act these were $800 - $1100 MSRP amps, at best.
@@pureguitargear3935Where are are you getting a point to point amp for $1799????
@@srh361 reverb. Divided by 13 head and can for 1800$. That was the whole point of this video.
It would be interesting to know how much it costs Gibson to produce the Falcon 20. Looking at your screenshot of the electronics of it, it does look clean and I think it would be easy for an amp tech to work on, and has common components and not hundreds of those little tiny chips that you need a magnifying glass and specialized equipment to work on. I can't believe the tubes are soldered to the board, are you saying that normal people can't pull the tubes out to replace or mod on their own? That sounds crazy. The thickness of the PCB board is important, I would like to know the quality/thickness of the PCB is. We'll find out the reliability of these once they get out there, however right now if I was going to purchase one of these I would do my homework for sure because you don't seem to be getting a whole lot for the price you are paying, so the parts better be top quality to offset the price.
I was expecting a review of an actual amp not only a rant.
It’s standard Mesa junk
youve got a point. i got my marshall 1974x used with some minor issues in an auction for 1000$! those silverface fenders won't stay cheap for long.
Spot on and ty for the advice
I went in to my local long and mquaid
Because I’m a Canuck
Played through several versions of Princeton
Wound up buying the hand wired 64 reverb with tremelo
Payed way too much. But
Easily modified the trem to make it slower and have an amp that will actually live and be easily serviced for the rest of my life
And running it through different speakers makes the world of tones at your fingertips
So In retrospect and moving forward
I’m going to do hand wired kit amps and make my own cabinets etc
Speakers are the other element and I’ll have to buy those. Just don’t have the skill and gear to rebuild great old ones and I’m happy with todays options
I like this video, thanks for making it.
my Hotrod deluxe is a pine cabinet and creamback speaker.
For the price of this just look for vintage. Lets see, old Gibson, Epiphone, Silvertone, Supro, Danelectro, and even some Fender can be had all day everyday for less than $1800. Find a good tech and the amp will outlive you👍
When coolness outweighs the sound…go hand wired. Ignore the noise from the screwed up connections.
false
Get that a silver face is better than new stuff. But some of the CBS stuff (silver face Fender amps) are a bit lacking compared to the black face versions. The story was CBS wanted to amps to 'hi-fi stereo' clean - not all, but some models. Good news the silver face amps can be modded back to black face if you choose to do so. For me it's up to the player and what you like. Had a couple of friends that bought matching Twins back in '67/68 which sounded very nice. They were fortunate with theirs as the Twin was one that didn't have circuit changes until a bit later. That's what I was always told - so I apologize if my info is wrong. I've got a '56 Pro that works so well with my 335 that I'm never gonna sell it. It'll go to my son who plays after I die.
In 35 years of heavy-duty use. I have never had a problem with an amp because of a problem with a printed circuit board. Going on about this is like whining about the difference between through hole and surface mounts resistors: the electrons don't care.
Also, the tubes are NOT soldered onto the circuit board, the tube sockets are!
The only thing I would agree with is that the Gibson price is over the top for an amp that is probably built for $250. Frankly, you can get a pretty good amp these days for $500.
I agree with u dude,
Still u can’t argue how fuckin good those Gibsons sound….
Yea I’m sure they sound good. I been getting so much heat I might buy one and do a shoot out lol
You could buy 5 x Peavey Classic 30s for the same price as these where I live lol, I would be happy to spend that much on a Fender/Marshall/Vox HW/PTP vintage reissue of a famed amp, but not for just a "regular" level amp
The tubes are soldered in!?!?!?
No the tube sockets are mounted directly to the board. Which isn’t always the worst thing but it all
Comes down to design. If it’s
Not done properly you can ruin your board.
Hehe, if Apple did an amp they solder in tubes, fuses, and the darn transformers on the PCB if they could figure out a way to do it.
Psionic is my go-to. He reminds me of my electronics teacher from high school.
Dude he is the man. If he says something is made like shit. Then it’s made like shit
The Falcon 20 is a $299.00 amp
Have u played it ?
For a hand wired tube combo amp? You just proved yourself to be a cheap ass lib who wants everything for free! Good luck with that!
@@pippydog28he hasn't played it because he's waiting to find one in the dumpster first!😂 he can't even afford to pay attention
Great video, way to educate people shopping and trying to understand value / build quality. A couple of years I picked up a 1964 Gibson Skylark for about $250 and spent another $300 getting it serviced and ever so slightly modified (there is actually a Guitologist video about the work). It is now an incredible sounding amp that will keep its value. I was interested when I saw these new ones, figured it was cool of Gibson to get back to producing amazing amps of their past. I guess they are NOT reproducing amazing amps of the past but selling crap with their name on it. Sad.
I appreciate the positivity. Getting a lot of hate on this video. There is just so many better options for the same price or cheaper.
Nothing really wrong with pcbs... it's just a way to mount components (some will say it will affect the sound but that depends more on the layout I think); maintenance - wise, the only difference from p2p is the laziness of the guy who is supposed to repair it. BUT... valves on a PCB are a big NO, even if pre tubes are not going to run very hot, I can see this causing a lot of problems in the medium term. Cabinet, speaker, transformers are the most important part of the sound
Great review, loved to watch it! By the way… the cheaper PRS’s are also lousy amps and not cheap! ;-)
my amps: 1964 fender BF DR, Matchless sc 30, Matchless HC head, and 2/12 cab, (recommended by John Jorgenson years ago) old Traynor head, 2/12 custom closed cabinet with Celestion sidewinders.
Sold - Mint jcm 800 Head and cab-one trick pony Toneless amp., 1965 Super Reverb in showroom condition still!!!
Regret selling the Super -a wife thing. oh well.
65 Amps are a great deal used.
After Gibson came out with their new version of the Falcon amplifier. The older original models from the early 1960's suddenly became popular. All Gibson had to do was copy the original Falcon amps they didn't have to buy another amp company and have the Falcon redesigned and have the old name slapped on it. I use to own one of the 1960 Falcons. They were a very simple design that functioned well and sounded great. They were only 15 to 20 watts with a 12 inch speaker and tremolo control pedal. It was given to me in 1971 and I owned it until 2012. During that era bigger louder amps were needed to compete with other louder instrument on stage. Now bands are using smaller, lighter amps that produce more volume than they use to. Every body is downsizing there gear.
I'd be worried about snapping the board while changing the tubes!
Brad the Guitologist doesnt like them either.... I think Gibson rely too much on the name. You didnt mention the Peavey Valve king as an affordable valve amp, I have a 112 and it sounds as good as most others ive heard and has been reliable.....Cheers
Brad the Guitologist also promoted activists harassing elderly people buying groceries because they were wearing face masks and threatened his kids school administrators so… might want to take his advise with a grain of salt.
I just bought a Port City (small builder in North Carolina) Merino. 20 watts, PTP construction, based on a Fender Harvard circuit, two knobs and the truth. The amp will likely outlive me. Bags of tone, built like a tank. $1950.
Yea man that’s what I’m saying. This video wasn’t made to shit on PCB built amps. It was to show there are sooooooo many better options for less money or the same.
So Gibson wants $1799 for a 12 watt Falcon 20 when for the same price I can get a Friedman Little Sister 20 watt. amp with full EQ and a master volume. Thanks Gibson but no thanks.
If you go to a store and like the Gibson falcon… save yourself 1300 bucks and just get a used American peavey classic. You’ll be getting the same pcb poorly laid out mediocre tube amp with a meh speaker but you have enough left over to get a used American Strat to go with it lol plus if the amp dies you can get a new one with the change hidden under your couch cushion
I want a higher gain low watt gigging amp with Reverb/Vibrato. No pedals. Amulet or Falcon. All these others are apples and oranges regardless of how great a "deal" they are.
Dude how much do you want to spend? I’ll give you all my picks. I gig every weekend.
@@pureguitargear3935 I'll run a Flint in front of any of my favorite amps, Dr. Monza, Brown Princeton, etc. I like the gainier Falcon/Amulet sounds with Rev/Vib. Princetons are less aggressive. Good discussion thank you!
First, there is no problem with a PCB board! That's not the issue.
All this and we didn't even get to hear the amp.
Uhh yea I didn’t buy one.
lol
@@pureguitargear3935 You didn't buy one, but you just took a dump all over it. That's kinda weak, no? IMO, you need hours and hours of hands on before forming an opinion of any kind. Don't ever judge a book by its cover
@@user-fv5yo5fi5c 👈🏼Gibson psyop over here
Dude, is there a Gibson guy holding a gun to your head? If you think there are better choices, don't buy the freaking amp.
Agreed. It’s more geared towards people who might not nerd out as much as we do and think they are getting a hand wired amp. Ya know because it says “hand wired” on the back of it lol
Psionic Audio in Memphis, he keeps all my amps going
He the man
Most amplifier manufacturers use PCB. Almost all electronic devices use PCB. A well-designed PCB amp can perform just as well as a hand wired amp. If all amps were hand wired there would be no way to meet the demand.
I would just rather have a hand wired amp. Especially at that price point.
@@pureguitargear3935
I hear ya. I would just say don't get disillusioned by the allure of a hand wired amp because there are a lot of less than great hand wired amps. Everybody is trying to increase their bottom line so lesser quality components often get used. You also leave yourself susceptible to poor wiring because someone doesn't know what they are doing. It can be a crapshoot.
ua-cam.com/video/LGAkcGctgN0/v-deo.htmlsi=KCGihRTveoCMxE0m
@@pureguitargear3935 says the guy with a $400 modeling amp..
@@pureguitargear3935 i really don't get the glorification of ,,hand-wired" amps...it just does not matter if its a quality PCB were the routing is done correctly. The electrons don't care where they are going through...
The Guitologist doesn't like it, either.
Love his videos!
Gibson lost me at soldered tubes....wtf!?
By the way, Steve, You're crushing with these videos. Miss ya buddy
Miss you too brother. Hope the family is doing good!
Sooo ... me is a little bit puzzled
PCBs can be great ... Mesa ... Modern Marshalls ... The Problem with this amp: tube sockets are directly on the board -> tendency to roast the board BUT why are so many people so angry about Gibson Gibson is selling - not so - well built stuff at a ridiculous price point since ....
Big name does imply BUT not actually is great Prods & QS ... Gibson QS:
Offering solutions or better options is a great start and much appreciated, but if you're going to build this channel and be taken seriously you really need to make sure you hit your bends when you perform. "Serious players" as you call them do not bend to the wrong pitch or at least do not intentionally stay there that long without a clean resolution to the intended note. Keep practicing. You'll get there!
Nice. I’ll be sure to hit you up when I need Alter Bridge tabs. ! Thanks
Its a shitbox! Just bought an other Friedman. Ive already had a funeral for Mesa Boogie. Gibson ruins everything they touch.
Its very sad. I had high hopes for this amp but sadly let down.
Turns out the whole "boutique" thing doesn't age well in terms of selling price. Dentists want new stuff! I bought a used Milkman for, like 1500 bucks a few years ago. It's amazing. 😁
The P in PCB means printed!
I won't comment on SHIT "reviews" of products the reviewers DON'T EVEN PLAY. Yes, including THIS one.
Good for you man 👍🏼
Have to disagree on the newer Vox amps. They are PCB done right with thick boards, through-hole plated double sided, separate boards for different sections of the amp, etc. They’re built to meet a price point and are priced appropriately. But these new Gibsons are garbage. Why in the world did they decide to mount the preamp tubes inside the chassis?
Other amps whose quality punch way above their price: new Harmony amps and Ceriatone.
I agree with you. If PCB is done right it can be fine. That being said. At a price point of almost 2k. I expect and hand made. Point to point amp. Maybe times are changing but it just blows my mind.
If you look inside, its all the cheapest. It has the lowest quality parts available. Look.
🙄 Mesa = Has NEVER point-to-point wired amplifiers, ever.
This just seems like such a crazy take. Mesa builds some of the best cabinetry, tolex and fit/finish in the business. As opposed to Friedman/Soldano/Bogner that are all built in the same factory…
Who says the tubes are “soldered to the board”? They’re not. It’s a design choice to direct mount the ceramic tube sockets to the board. It’s a SUPER sturdy board and all of the controls, jacks and failure points are flying lead so they can be easily fixed.
You’re entitled to your opinion but… you are spewing “Brad the Guitologist” goofball takes. It’s expensive, yes. But show me a post or mention of “poor quality control”. Take a look at a 70s Boogie Mk1… all pCB and they were like 5k with inflation, still rolling with a simple cap job… guess Pete Townsend, Carlos Santana, Keith Richard’s, Metallica, John Petrucci, etc are all uninformed noobs?
…and good luck buying a boutique amp and finding a competent tech who can get a proper schematic for some one off garage build you like from instagram.
Good for you man !
I totally agree with you. It's a cheap ass made piece of crap that is way overpriced.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
It also says it's hand wired on the chassis. wtf, man. That is stretching that term a LOT.
Tons of better options out there for sure.
I do have to say though, that's an interesting speaker they have in there (12” Jensen Blackbird 40 Alnico Speaker).
I never saw anything like that.
Back in the 60's you used Gibson amps only if you got a hell of a deal from the dealer. Everybody else played Fenders. The Gibsons sounded like crap... I was there!
I watched UA-cam video recently where they suggested Gibson's recent success is to a large extent due to a very good marketing department. 🙂
3:30 si-sonic? 🙄
Yeah man. Absolutely ridiculous. It's s simple amp...could have at least put the tubes outside the inner chassis.
Right?!? Am I the only dude who thinks this is insane !?!
Suhr and Friedman also make PCB amps. I agree that these Gibson amps are overpriced, but you might want to consider editing out the things you say that are contradictory and nonsensical.
I didn’t say all PCB amps are bad. The point of the video is for that price point you aren’t getting the quality you are getting from Suhr and Friedman.
Hmmm, so I clicked on an anticipatory rant, and not a review...oh well.
Basically.
I guess I'd buy a Gibson amp if I was in my 70s or 80s.
The line 6 patch for a Gibson explorer vintage Amp sounds as good as these new Gibson combo amps😂
Played it and sounds great
Every demo I've heard from these amps makes me want to run in the opposite direction. The cleans are serviceable, but the dirty sounds are absolutely not my thing. Your advice is spot on.
Everybody's review for this begins with "WTF?!" That's not looking good for this.
I think you need to try one because your wrong.
oh for crips, quit with the click bait angst.... those are Awesome amps for people of such tastes....if you don't like them, get something else; but don't slam them.
I will slam what I want to slam sir. Thank you kindly.
nah, i watched it, it wasn't that bad.@@pureguitargear3935
@@pureguitargear3935
On the folly of "Greening the Sahara"
We Can Not Solve Hunger With Food, Anymore Than We Can Solve Homelessness By Building More Breeding Bins ( housing )
you know where they get all their cattle feed, don't you ???
they used their heroin to DECIMATE TWO FEET OF AMERICAN TOPSOIL TO NEAR DESERT, JUST IN THE LAST 50 YEARS !!!
freakin "do gooder" heroin addicts are out of their freakin minds.
do they know that those "unmentionables" actually think our attempts to divert addicts onto safe, clean, regulated prescriptions was an act of war !!!
They Do Not Seem To Understand People Wanting To Protect Their Vital Resources !!!
And That's Because, When They Have Food, They Breed Faster Than The Food Grows !!!
Until They Run Out,
Then, They Withhold Nutrients From Their Own Starving Children That They Have The Energy To Make More, And Or Eat Each Other.
In Fact:
The Anthropological Definition Of Cannibal Is Synonymous With "Ni_g_rs Who Live On Small Islands"
because they don't have the decades long cycles of feast and famine that they did, prior to Raping Our Entire World Of It Vital Resources, on the african continent.
I mostly agree with you. But lots of high end amps are built with PCB. The issue is the quality of the PCB, the design, and the workmanship. The Gibson PCB looks like garbage.
dude... sounds like a lot of whining, peppered with insulting your listeners because maybe they want a new amp. I don't have a fetish about hand wired, or heavy, or old. I love old amps, but you also take a risk buying an old amp sight-unseen from Reverb. I wonder how the new Falcon 20 sounds, but I'll have to watch someone else's video to find out.
C'mon, dude. Maybe less ranting and more sound demos and comparisons. Maybe play the Falcon 20 next to your cool old amps and let us hear the difference.
Got it
These are $5000aud in aus... fuckn disgusting
In three words my friend; You aren't wrong.
Thanks man. I got a bunch of hate about this video actually lol. I’m just coming from gigging musician who gigs a bunch and I want an amp that can be fixed easily and not wait for a pcb board from the company.
Yeh. These are AWFUL!! Sound more like bad Mesas than Gibsons.
The new Fender 65 deluxe reverb is $1599. The tubes are mounted on the chassis, not the pcb board.
You aren't going to get "new with a warranty" hand wired anything in the under $2k price range of any brand. Much of the time, buying used, you're buying someone else's problem. Been there, done that a few times, soon finding the reason someone no longer wanted it. It goes straight to the amp tech for a $400 diagnosis why the fkng thing is crackling at half volume, only to throw the parts cannon at it for another $400, and take 3 months for it to come back.
Dude check out the video. There was a Nick Greer 5e3 clone and a divided by 13 all for under 2k
Modern FM4+ PCB is thermal and mechanically solid. Those mesa amps are not going to break easily if the tubes are mounted to the board or chassis.
Just a useless informed video.
That’s weird my buddy had a new Mesa Filmore. PCB board burned up after a month of hard gigging. Took 4 months to get a replacement board. If it was point to point the tech could have a replaced a few components. But yea totally.
I don't care what happens those tubes should not be mounted on the board that is done to save money. Maybe it won't melt but knowing I spent $2,000 on an amp that is cutting corners would keep me awake. Also it says hand wired on the back of the chassis. What did Gibson think no one would notice
@@pureguitargear3935 They sell 1,000s of almost every model of amp that they make.
If he was using it correctly then your buddy had a lemon, clearly - or else the rep of certain M/B models far and wide would be "burns up within months of gigging". 💡
@@shaft9000 What would you rather have? For the same price. Printed circuit or hardwired ?
Most amps have PCBs dude you’re just talking BS for clicks
Maybe the bullshit amps you play.
@@pureguitargear3935 You have no idea what you’re talking about! People like you shouldn’t have a UA-cam channel! You was talking about finding a boutique amp cheap you mentioned Matchless by name. You know those amps are expensive. Hand wired are expensive you should know that
All this BS about PCBs and how you would take a matchelss and a silver face... and you have a Yamaha modeling amp on screen with you. Stop being ridiculous. PCB amps have been around since the 70s. Even Psionic audio will tell you to get over it, it's 2024. Also, maybe learn what "point to point" actually is.
Well yea. I would take those amps over a PCB amp. My THR is a desk amp. Not a gigging amp. Don’t be so sensitive life is short. Be happy.
Overpriced rip-off