perhaps a lot of watchers may not like this but as an adventure bike user how fast should we be going on open to all trails, as an exercise or project for competition all the performance may well be interesting or purposefull. As a very tame mainly European ADV rider I am very aware of the pressure our hobby is under, Speed and noise are very much our enemies. I ride very local to you guys above and also Spain etc and the difficulties are increasing eveywhere, current example a motoring passionate Country Italy is in the trail riding news as I am sure you know. We all like to have a bit of fun and wind it on a bit here and there and I am not knocking your feature. My point is for us to continue for as long as possible what we are doing we need to be carefull how we push forward especially for us in Europe. Great Vid, they are getting better and better, and good luck to Simon sure he will have better things to do than read this though.
A great comment. Please feel free to highlight the issues in Italy in more detail. I know nothing about them. I'm also going to pin your comment for others to see 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine I understand your reference bikenav. I went from a 2005 gs650 to a modified WR450 and my ability and confidence in off road riding went through the roof. I am currently riding heavy red clay trails in the Northern Territory through to the grassy trails and woodlands of Queensland. For me the paradigm shift was getting a bike that suit my level and my need to improve. I am smiling my cheeks off with the WR. should have bought one sooner. I know my bike doesnt compare to the Dakar shown here. But I would never take my GS on the kind of stuff and the kind of speeds that my current bike will take me.
In response to that I would say the plandemic has shown us just how easy people are willing to give away their freedoms! Nice video and beautiful country!
In the US Offroad dirt roads will have a posted speed limit or when not posted an "accepted safe speed" which is by consensus between 25 and 35mph. Generally as long as you are in control and not riding on the wrong side of the road you should be able to ride at a speed safe for the conditions. That said I agree, do we need to be able to go 100mph on a dirt road? Probably not and sports cars don't need to be road legal and capable of 200mph. Such are egos.
Another amazing and insightful video. Your camera work and production value make the rest of us look bad! While I dream of riding a rally bike, my (lack of) riding skill warrants something more like a KLR650 with a milk crate on the back. Keep at it. Happy New Year.
@@west_adv in Eicma 2021 the SWM, an italian brand who sells also in the US, showed a new twin cylinder engine that is just 500 cc (very similar to the CB 500 X engine) that will suit the new SWM Superdual, an adventure bike with 21 front wheel. Furthermore Fantic, another italian brand, presented XEF 450 rally, a 1 cylinder bike with Yamaha engine that (if I understand correctly) will be released in two versions, one more adventure focused and one for true rallies like Dakar. Fantic is already testing the new bike, right now, during the Dakar 2022 thanks to the italian pilot Franco Picco! Wait and see!
This is the gold standard in video making. You really possess the camera/editing skill, riding skill and motorcycle knowledge to be at the very top. I’ve learned so much from your channel, thank you. Happy new years!
Loved this video. Especially the insight about convincing yourself the adv is anywhere close to a purpose built enduro bike. Sometimes I’d like an adventure bike but I have to remind myself it will never be an enduro at more than 100lbs heavier.
Great content! I have the chance to ride a T7 and a 500 exc-f with a rally tower, larger tank and some other upgrades to make it a wannabe rally bike! As much as I like the T7 for its overall capability, you can't touch the 500 when its time to push the limit. The 150lbs of weight difference make it just much more easy, enjoyable and safer to ride hard!
Every one on net is saying that best adventure bike ( unicorn) would be Husqvarna 501 ( or KTM), especially technical tight stuff and single trail, if someone can find the ways to increase oil change intervals....... Other option is 701/ 690.
@@istra70 Went from a 690 to a 500, and there is no unicorn sadly. To be one, it need to perform great everywhere. The 500 is top tier once it reach the dirt, but even with many comfort mods, you will hate the long highway miles. It also depend of your definition of adventure, mine often imply a lot of miles to reach the nice stuff. Found myself to skip a lot of group rides because they were far, so I rode my 500 less than I desired, which by design made the 500 not a unicorn, the end goal is to ride more, not less.
@@phil2ride312 Yeah, we need transformer bike, which will on the press of a button transform itself - depending ground and surface it is on. I am afraid it will pass few generations for that to happen..... 701 can handle motorway, has good luggage capability and oil intervals to be best adventure bike. For the rest of serious off road rides, it is van or a trailer.....
Great video ! Thanks for sharing, Is so true, as an average rider, the moment I get on a 450lbs and up for an off road ride I can feel all my limitations, but on the other hand when I get on a dual sport 350lbs or less I regain my confidence and I can focus more on sharping up my skills and have fun doing it with a smile on my face
I mean, I think the most difficult part of riding is riding around the limitations of a bike and if a bikes limitations are smaller it's easier to feel comfortable on.
Love this, and confirms what I expected you to say. I thought long and hard about getting a T7 but the 200kg weight tag was always a huge impediment, that and the base bike is way off perfect, especially the suspension. I went for the CRF450L, which with the vortex ECU fitted is one hell of a beast and a do-all adventure bike. I don't like road riding, so the road sections are always gonna be a bore, but like said there, when off-road I want to have the best time and not fear getting into something I can't get out of, moving 126kg about when stuck is far easier than moving 200kg about, especially when you're doing it all day. Doing some rally this year, hopefully the CRF450L will shine! Thanks for this great vid, look forward to more in 2022!
I went through the same thing. Weight was also the deciding factor. Haven’t met an ADV rider yet that can stay with my on my TE610 off-road. I know they’re out there but I haven’t met any in person.
@@thepioneer6178 It depends where you ride I guess. I had Tiger 800 XC, took it green laying and would often get in a right pickle, especially when muddy. Trying to man handle a muddy, loaded 200+ kg bike can be very stressful, well it was for me. I only have one bike, so since switching to the CRF450L my trail riding has been amazing, I can go anywhere, and importantly, get out of anywhere! Roads aren't for me, dont wanna ride the NC500 or similar, but I do wanna do the TET in various countries and never be worried if the bike is going to be an issue.
Great video. Like most I’m at best a gravel road and light trail rider and the T700 will easily cope. The mods you’ve done expand that capability far beyond the needs of that same audience. Probably the biggest issue is weight as you point out and where a single will score over a twin. I ride a GSA, by the way, so we’ll aware of weight issues.
Geweldige video wordt ik blij van!! Dank nu mijn Tenere World raid nog op kenteken en gaan! Na dertig jaar Honda Transalp en Africa Twin gereden te hebben nu een Yamaha 🥳🎉
Slightly off-topic but I picked up a Surron Storm Bee a few months. It's the big brother of the Surron Light Bee. It rides almost silently with a very high ground clearance (335mm) and quite long suspension travel (290mm). Also, it's somewhat light at 127kg "wet" in the off-road version. I ride it in Mongolia where I live. I literally live off-road in the mountains. So far, I'm very impressed with it as I do short rides within its limited range. I won't be doing any rallies but it works well for my purpose without upsetting the locals and wildlife with noise. For longer rides, touring, camping etc, I'm keeping my ancient 1993 Honda Transalp.
Beautifully filmed and very informative as always. Thank you for showing me what my Tenere is capable of. I cannot wait too see where you take the Tenere next. The professional quality of your presentation is outstanding. Please continue making these films.
A green road is for the journey and not the destination. I think the guys answered the implied question about the difference between a rally and an adventure. I’ve a WR450 and a T7; happy days.
Finishing a Dakar Rally 8 times is no mean feat! Great contrast revelation. I had a ktm 950 adv and knew even that was too much for me both on and off road, but enjoyable nonetheless. I'm looking at a crf250/300 rally or something I can use in my older life lol
Thanks for a great show this was 1 of your best loved it no surprise with the outcome. I just wish I could ride off road tarmacadam all my life and now live in a country with so much off road tracks I get passed by kids of 10 😆. Keep it up guys.
Love it the video. You guys have done the off-road world a great service. Videos of Pole Tarres and Toni Bou's doing otherworldly stuff on ADV bikes is possible because those guys are actually aliens. I am afraid that people are getting the wrong idea about what the real world capabilities of an adv bike are. I have an Afirca Twin and a fully modded 500 exc and there is no comparison. A good indicator you bought the wrong bike is when you have an ADV bike with full knobbies mounted up, 300mm aftermarket suspension and no way to carry a sleeping bag.
Great video! Informative and filmed in Portugal 😊. Still, putting a single purpose built machine against a multi, broad public appeal built machine like the T7, a comparison on the dedicated environment for the rally bike would not have any other conclusion but the one you guys came to. Happy new year to you guys!
exactly.. ride both 500-1000km to a destination.. do the back country roads of the area for 2 or 3 days then ride the return trip hm & see which bike tires you out most.. thats "adventure" riding as a starter.. then do it for a month.. or ride 3000km across Aus to meet up with an "adventure" rally group for a weeks trail riding.. then return hm.. on the bikes in this comparison..
Very timely and excellent review. This gives us mortals and fans of the Dakar Rally a better sense of how the official 450cc class professional rally bikes compare to our everyday commercial bikes like the Yamaha T700. I have two KTM bikes. The street legal KTM 690 Enduro R and the KTM 890 Adventure. The KTM 690 Enduro R uses the same chassis as the KTM 450 rally version. In general these bikes are so tall for the plush suspension. Unfortunately I had to lower my KTM 690 to even get my feet to touch the ground. I did a 1,400 mile trip on my KTM 690 Enduro R. I can tell you doing a 200 mile per day ride on a 690 is a hard day. You're much better off on a adventure bike ( twin ) like the T700 or KTM 890 Adventure. So the adventure bikes have a place for the rest of us who don't ride flat out in deserts. Great video, footage, and video ending. 5 stars. Two thumbs up. I love these types of reviews. Keep them coming and Happy New Year. Kam USA
Thanks for the rad comment! Just so you know, the KTM 690 chassis was similar to the KTM 690 rally chassis and 1st gen 450 Rally but isn't the same. The rallye bikes have a lot more suspension travel and different geometry. Lyndon Poskit knows more than I do about that. In 2021 the bikes have gone through multiple changes and just phased out the use of the trellis chassis altogether 🙂
Super video 📹...both great bikes, and it's a tribute to the T7 that it's in the mix! Excellent filming and narrative too. And thanks for proving that my T7 is a great bike!!! Cheers Steve...ps Happy New year
The limit on that WR450 Rally bike can be seen in MXGP and ISDE as its the same motor/chassis package as the YZ450F with modifications to handle higher percentages of speeds for longer distances. There really is no equipment limit on that platform, it's designed limit is purely skill and physical fitness. Whereas the T7 was designed to be an mt07 street platform massaged for offroad duty, whereas riders can overcompensate for the equipment limit by using skill and fitness, for example Pol Tarres and Kevin Gallas. The adventure bike will never be as good offroad as a rally bike and vise-versa, you would never daily commute highway miles on a wr450.
Rally bike is of course much more fun but 2 things you fail to mention ..... 1.) How happy will people be changing oil every day on rally bike ? 2.) Price. People can buy two Tenere bikes ( with suspension upgrade and other extras ) for the price of one rally bike. Is it worth ? Thanks for posting ....lovely riding.....
End of the day as you said, there is no getting away from the weight with most modern adv bikes. Why they don’t make a lighter and simpler bike akin to a rally bike (but not 60 grand) I just don’t know.
Phil from the nes forest, loved the review, very intuitive, as you say T7 not in the league of rally raid machine. But then it doesn't cost 27,000, that amount is not close to the final rallyraid Dakar machine. Great stuff.
What would really make the T7 good is a really well thought out aftermarket tank that can replace the stock tank similar to the TEAM KAPRIONY tank that Gian Paolo Mucci made for that T7 Rally raid +30mm suspension kit even go as far as fitting a set of 890 X-Act pro Rally forks even a good set of KTM 990 forks would be better. Pol Torres runs insane suspension on theirs. I am also convinced those frames are strengthened. TEAM KAPRIONY T7 has a new rear from aluminum but you need deep pockets. But no matter what you do a T7 will never be in the same league as a Dakar Rally 450 bike. Excellent work
If you read up on Pol Torres's bike it is all "stock". They make a point of pointing that out. Personally that is hard to believe especially with the things he can do with it but, that was one of the agreements with Yamaha and Pol that the bike remain stock..
It wasn't far from stock until they decided to do Romanians. He had a single brake conversion early on I believe he has 48mm front end from a WR fitted now, different wheels and a bunch more stuff.
With our project bike, I toyed with all of those mods but it didn't fit with what our project bike is intended for. That series will air soon but the idea is that I wanted to make the bike as good as it could be for the average person ona reasonable budget. I looked at every mod and if you want to you can easily spend €20K on the T7 and it wasn't the right direction.
@@BrakeMagazine Personally, I was hugely disappointed when the Rally version was just a cosmetic exercise, I would love a pro suspension component from Yamaha offered as an upgrade option Now one could argue £3-4K upgrade will not be in everyone's budget but I am sure there would have been at least a 10% uptake for it. The Rally version should have been their R version with 48mm forks, a definite missed opportunity but not something they could offer later now that the bike is maturing. For now, the Rally raid tractive suspension upgrade is the easiest aftermarket upgrade. Until more suppliers like Ohlins TFX and others offer similar solutions which are not cheap either but people that do use the bike off-road will invest in it. If there was a fuel tank that lowers the COG l would invest in it but none of the aftermarket suppliers even want to discuss that as an option.
“After watching Pol Tarres, it is quite good, but it’s still an ADV bike” THANK you for this and your honesty. Everyone else raves about the T7 without facing the reality that it’s still a 450lbs ADV bike. I hear “Pol Tarres did this on it” all the time, but they never seem to mention that Tarres is one of the top Enduro riders in the world. Tarres could probably do that on any ADV bike, just as Chris Birch does insane shit on even heavier KTM’s. It’s a fantastic machine, for sure, but it’s not a bike any average rider is going to be hitting any harder trails with.
Pol Tarres came out of the womb pretty much like everyone else, was once a kid like everyone else. What's stopping people from bringing their capability up to the machine level?
having watched the full video, I like it, its honest. Coming from enduro/mx to adventure I cringe when adventure/street riders tell me their adventure bikes are built for offroad
Have you guys done a vid or podcast about where to start off-road racing and a bit of an overview of the whole landscape, coming from road racing and not wanting to dive into motocross I’d be keen to to see what alternatives are out there and how to start
Yup. We did a podcast on both getting into dirt bikes and getting into rally. We don't have one specifically about starting racing but it's covered in the Rally podcast 🙂
The 450s of the modern Dakars are great, no doubt, but the old Bikes 85 to 2000 still inspire me more, obviously, the other major difference was the higher speeds and essentially flatter longer stages. The drawbacks were lots of famous deaths with Sainct, Lalay, Meoni, Caldecott, to name just a few. My favourites were the 88 to 98 Tenere's, the 85 XL Honda, the amazing NXR series 86 to 89, also the Cagivas and the mighty KTM's, these were the real Dakar bikes and all racing in Africa.
Exactly, when they dropped the twins I lost interest. I remember riding to the Pink Lake to greet the riders. Those giant twins really were making the ground shake. I rode with Gaston Rahier, Peterhansel, ...
Great comparison! Great to see that they are in their own leagues. I would love to see a video on what you have done to your T7. (And possibly why you picked it over the KTM 890R 😉)
@@BrakeMagazine this was very interesting thank you. You were a fan of the 890R so I too would be interested in a comparison with the T7 for the purpose of this video. And why not let’s throw in the 690/701 platform, which look to me as an excellent starting point too
Really great comparison we all pretend we’re riding a Dakar (well I do anyway 😄). Amazing footage and trails what part of Portugal did you film the ride ? It looks incredible
@@BrakeMagazine are these trails part of Portuguese TET? I am going to Portugal in a week renting crf300 and plan on covering most of TET. Fantastic video. Thank you for the work you put into it!
I have WR450 that is pretty stripped down, only a rear rack and some easily removed daddle and tank bags... good for going fast on fairlytechnical trails and you could go long distances on it but.. im going to get a T7 for longer trips and less technical riding 😂
I think it would also be very interesting to get a pre displacement cut dakar bike in the mix, since those maniacs used to ride 1000cc bikes and I always wondered how they compare to the new 450s
@@BrakeMagazine really? I always assumed they are a lot lighter. I always thought of something like a highland 950 V2 as a reference if you heard about that super rare brand. They weighed 165 kg with a 950 cc V2
Is it possible to do a more in depth video on how the rally bike was built and what mods were made to it? I know it is a bit late for a build video now.
you mention how you are much quicker in this terrain on the rally bike than you'd be on an enduro bike. It would be really interesting to find out what the differences are and how to turn your normal WR450 into this for example
Thats statement is relative to a stock enduro bike not a modified one. I think it's mostly down to suspension set up, brakes and breadth of power. All are achievable but I've never ridden a stock bike that was close to this.
Great video. Obviously the rally bike is better, but the T700 is pretty underpowered for its weight and mostly budget components. Funny thing is KTM once said "...450cc motorcycles, which are unthinkably unsuitable for use in long distance rallies" Would have been nice to see a timed wide open course with you both swapping bikes and using control tyres.
Great Video, really interesting and honest review. Marketing of adventure bikes are very misleading to the novice. I'd love to see a comparison with a rally bike and the KTM 690 which looks like a closer match.
I really enjoying your content, and with your wealth of knowledge I thought I’d ask if there’s any chance you could do a video on handle bar anti vibration solutions, I’ve been riding my T7 a few years and it’s the major thing that affects my comfort. My hands get quite buzzy after about 30mins, I try to have a relaxed grip, but it doesn’t make a huge difference. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Cheers
Great comparison - enjoyed that. Can I ask why do you say fork not forks? This seems to be common now but always used to be forks as there 2 and therefore plural?
@Brake Magazine Very interested in how you like the Acerbis skid plate? Cannot find any reviews on that one online. My bike has the Yamaha aftermarket one and I do not like the shape of it and it also sounds like a huge bell when rocks hit it... :D
Sub for the project bike series coming soon. In short I like it. it's strong, quiet and good. Fitment is a 7/10. Little bit exposed in some bits for really technical riding but otherwise really good. Price in great. Weight is low.
perhaps a lot of watchers may not like this but as an adventure bike user how fast should we be going on open to all trails, as an exercise or project for competition all the performance may well be interesting or purposefull. As a very tame mainly European ADV rider I am very aware of the pressure our hobby is under, Speed and noise are very much our enemies. I ride very local to you guys above and also Spain etc and the difficulties are increasing eveywhere, current example a motoring passionate Country Italy is in the trail riding news as I am sure you know. We all like to have a bit of fun and wind it on a bit here and there and I am not knocking your feature. My point is for us to continue for as long as possible what we are doing we need to be carefull how we push forward especially for us in Europe. Great Vid, they are getting better and better, and good luck to Simon sure he will have better things to do than read this though.
A great comment. Please feel free to highlight the issues in Italy in more detail. I know nothing about them. I'm also going to pin your comment for others to see 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine I understand your reference bikenav. I went from a 2005 gs650 to a modified WR450 and my ability and confidence in off road riding went through the roof. I am currently riding heavy red clay trails in the Northern Territory through to the grassy trails and woodlands of Queensland. For me the paradigm shift was getting a bike that suit my level and my need to improve. I am smiling my cheeks off with the WR. should have bought one sooner. I know my bike doesnt compare to the Dakar shown here. But I would never take my GS on the kind of stuff and the kind of speeds that my current bike will take me.
@@BrakeMagazine 3:35... sounds like a space shuttle taking off, puts asmile on your face... 🙄😄 exactly how the locals think
In response to that I would say the plandemic has shown us just how easy people are willing to give away their freedoms! Nice video and beautiful country!
In the US Offroad dirt roads will have a posted speed limit or when not posted an "accepted safe speed" which is by consensus between 25 and 35mph. Generally as long as you are in control and not riding on the wrong side of the road you should be able to ride at a speed safe for the conditions. That said I agree, do we need to be able to go 100mph on a dirt road? Probably not and sports cars don't need to be road legal and capable of 200mph. Such are egos.
Depends who is on each bike - they'd be equally shit if I were riding them.
😂
😂😂😂 Ditto
Another amazing and insightful video. Your camera work and production value make the rest of us look bad! While I dream of riding a rally bike, my (lack of) riding skill warrants something more like a KLR650 with a milk crate on the back. Keep at it. Happy New Year.
You're too kind about the camera work 🙂 I reckon your KLR probably goes longer without servicing too 🤣
There's only one way to build your skills, Ian. Ride! 🤔😯😂💪🍻
Interesting that both have the low boy exhaust
Great video. If only Yamaha would build a production ultralight WR450 based Tenere 500cc. Big tank, big seat, big suspension, big smile.
Exactly, half of the world is waiting for T5. Fingers crossed.
PS. I'm thinking about ktm690 which may be close to T5 idea
@@west_adv in Eicma 2021 the SWM, an italian brand who sells also in the US, showed a new twin cylinder engine that is just 500 cc (very similar to the CB 500 X engine) that will suit the new SWM Superdual, an adventure bike with 21 front wheel. Furthermore Fantic, another italian brand, presented XEF 450 rally, a 1 cylinder bike with Yamaha engine that (if I understand correctly) will be released in two versions, one more adventure focused and one for true rallies like Dakar. Fantic is already testing the new bike, right now, during the Dakar 2022 thanks to the italian pilot Franco Picco! Wait and see!
@@Puglisi10 wow, great news! Thanks. I will google it for more info
Those bikes exists. They’re called KTM’s
@@haitzyice which one do you have in mind? 690?
Thanks for including us boys!
This is the gold standard in video making. You really possess the camera/editing skill, riding skill and motorcycle knowledge to be at the very top. I’ve learned so much from your channel, thank you. Happy new years!
Thanks so much Johannes. Much appreciated. I feel like we've got a way to go but appreciate it 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine Well that’s the spirit, always push for improvement. Can’t wait for what’s to come!
Loved this video. Especially the insight about convincing yourself the adv is anywhere close to a purpose built enduro bike. Sometimes I’d like an adventure bike but I have to remind myself it will never be an enduro at more than 100lbs heavier.
Great content! I have the chance to ride a T7 and a 500 exc-f with a rally tower, larger tank and some other upgrades to make it a wannabe rally bike! As much as I like the T7 for its overall capability, you can't touch the 500 when its time to push the limit. The 150lbs of weight difference make it just much more easy, enjoyable and safer to ride hard!
Every one on net is saying that best adventure bike ( unicorn) would be Husqvarna 501 ( or KTM), especially technical tight stuff and single trail, if someone can find the ways to increase oil change intervals.......
Other option is 701/ 690.
@@istra70 Went from a 690 to a 500, and there is no unicorn sadly. To be one, it need to perform great everywhere. The 500 is top tier once it reach the dirt, but even with many comfort mods, you will hate the long highway miles. It also depend of your definition of adventure, mine often imply a lot of miles to reach the nice stuff. Found myself to skip a lot of group rides because they were far, so I rode my 500 less than I desired, which by design made the 500 not a unicorn, the end goal is to ride more, not less.
@@phil2ride312 Yeah, we need transformer bike, which will on the press of a button transform itself - depending ground and surface it is on. I am afraid it will pass few generations for that to happen.....
701 can handle motorway, has good luggage capability and oil intervals to be best adventure bike.
For the rest of serious off road rides, it is van or a trailer.....
You did both bikes justice. Two different tools for two diffrent jobs. But, even to put tenere in this discussion says alot about it.
Great video ! Thanks for sharing, Is so true, as an average rider, the moment I get on a 450lbs and up for an off road ride I can feel all my limitations, but on the other hand when I get on a dual sport 350lbs or less I regain my confidence and I can focus more on sharping up my skills and have fun doing it with a smile on my face
I mean, I think the most difficult part of riding is riding around the limitations of a bike and if a bikes limitations are smaller it's easier to feel comfortable on.
Love this, and confirms what I expected you to say. I thought long and hard about getting a T7 but the 200kg weight tag was always a huge impediment, that and the base bike is way off perfect, especially the suspension. I went for the CRF450L, which with the vortex ECU fitted is one hell of a beast and a do-all adventure bike. I don't like road riding, so the road sections are always gonna be a bore, but like said there, when off-road I want to have the best time and not fear getting into something I can't get out of, moving 126kg about when stuck is far easier than moving 200kg about, especially when you're doing it all day. Doing some rally this year, hopefully the CRF450L will shine! Thanks for this great vid, look forward to more in 2022!
I went through the same thing. Weight was also the deciding factor. Haven’t met an ADV rider yet that can stay with my on my TE610 off-road. I know they’re out there but I haven’t met any in person.
@@kenwolfe5697 Come to Australia.....heaps of them here.....
I was too near for T7, went with WR450F 2021..but T7 is my dream bike,want it for highways..
It's not that bad, took a fz07 trailing a couple times and it's very manageable.
@@thepioneer6178 It depends where you ride I guess. I had Tiger 800 XC, took it green laying and would often get in a right pickle, especially when muddy. Trying to man handle a muddy, loaded 200+ kg bike can be very stressful, well it was for me. I only have one bike, so since switching to the CRF450L my trail riding has been amazing, I can go anywhere, and importantly, get out of anywhere! Roads aren't for me, dont wanna ride the NC500 or similar, but I do wanna do the TET in various countries and never be worried if the bike is going to be an issue.
Hi Simon. Good seeing you here on this video
I remember we met and helped you out with your tire on you way back into bivac copiapo chile
Great video. Like most I’m at best a gravel road and light trail rider and the T700 will easily cope. The mods you’ve done expand that capability far beyond the needs of that same audience. Probably the biggest issue is weight as you point out and where a single will score over a twin. I ride a GSA, by the way, so we’ll aware of weight issues.
Geweldige video wordt ik blij van!! Dank nu mijn Tenere World raid nog op kenteken en gaan! Na dertig jaar Honda Transalp en Africa Twin gereden te hebben nu een Yamaha 🥳🎉
Slightly off-topic but I picked up a Surron Storm Bee a few months. It's the big brother of the Surron Light Bee. It rides almost silently with a very high ground clearance (335mm) and quite long suspension travel (290mm). Also, it's somewhat light at 127kg "wet" in the off-road version. I ride it in Mongolia where I live. I literally live off-road in the mountains. So far, I'm very impressed with it as I do short rides within its limited range. I won't be doing any rallies but it works well for my purpose without upsetting the locals and wildlife with noise. For longer rides, touring, camping etc, I'm keeping my ancient 1993 Honda Transalp.
Simon, Congrats for finishing your Dakar!!!
Beautifully filmed and very informative as always. Thank you for showing me what my Tenere is capable of. I cannot wait too see where you take the Tenere next. The professional quality of your presentation is outstanding. Please continue making these films.
Thanks Ryan 😁😁
Whenever I think of ADv bikes, 1st thing I think for reference is Dakar bike, Since I am more into hardcore off.road,
nice content thanks for upload
No problem! Thanks!
REALLY good video. Thank you.
I was sold at 6:13. The rally bike is obviously awesome, Lell's T7 is no slouch though.
Best of luck in the race.
A green road is for the journey and not the destination. I think the guys answered the implied question about the difference between a rally and an adventure. I’ve a WR450 and a T7; happy days.
Finishing a Dakar Rally 8 times is no mean feat! Great contrast revelation. I had a ktm 950 adv and knew even that was too much for me both on and off road, but enjoyable nonetheless. I'm looking at a crf250/300 rally or something I can use in my older life lol
Oh wow. Portugal looks class. Was that filmed recently? The conditions looked perfect.
Great video.
Cheers
Paul
Portugal is class for off-road riding. It was filmed in mid-November.
@@BrakeMagazine It looks it. I bet the food is great as well. Cheers for the videos and have a great new year.
@@paulmullany7147 it is a mini paradise
Stunning video! Production quality off the charts. Awesome! 👍👍
Thanks Brad!
We do love videos like this! :D And it's great to have you back in Portugal! :D
Thanks for a great show this was 1 of your best loved it no surprise with the outcome. I just wish I could ride off road tarmacadam all my life and now live in a country with so much off road tracks I get passed by kids of 10 😆. Keep it up guys.
Such an awesome video. I’ve been dreaming of this video since I watched my first PD in the 80’s. Huge fan of Lyndon Poskitt.
Great video.I have always wondered as wellBack in the 80,s I rode my old tender 600 in the Negev desert , an amazing experience 👍😁
Great film Llewelyn!!! Your productions are off the charts!! great great great...🙏
Thanks for the kind words. Thanks for watching!
Love it the video. You guys have done the off-road world a great service. Videos of Pole Tarres and Toni Bou's doing otherworldly stuff on ADV bikes is possible because those guys are actually aliens. I am afraid that people are getting the wrong idea about what the real world capabilities of an adv bike are. I have an Afirca Twin and a fully modded 500 exc and there is no comparison. A good indicator you bought the wrong bike is when you have an ADV bike with full knobbies mounted up, 300mm aftermarket suspension and no way to carry a sleeping bag.
Great video! Informative and filmed in Portugal 😊. Still, putting a single purpose built machine against a multi, broad public appeal built machine like the T7, a comparison on the dedicated environment for the rally bike would not have any other conclusion but the one you guys came to.
Happy new year to you guys!
exactly.. ride both 500-1000km to a destination.. do the back country roads of the area for 2 or 3 days then ride the return trip hm & see which bike tires you out most.. thats "adventure" riding as a starter.. then do it for a month.. or ride 3000km across Aus to meet up with an "adventure" rally group for a weeks trail riding.. then return hm.. on the bikes in this comparison..
@@Errol.C-nz Absolutely. Unless tested on these very specific conditions, the T7 is by an overwhelming margin the better bike
@@ridethedistance4587 for Adventure or touring.. yes.. off-road fast dirt the 450.. but who needs to hurry.. to enjoy the ride.. thrills NOT needed
@@Errol.C-nz Agree!
Hello, love to watch that lovely comparison.
Looking forward to watch a comparison between T700 & Basil bike, hope soon!!
Can't get any more honest and thorough comparison than that!
Great video thanks folks this is a deep view into the adv and rally world
That’s a lot of suspension travel. Nice. Thank you for sharing
Great style & production quality, thanks!
Great film!
Would be nice to see comparison 690/701 vs Rally bike ☺️
I don't think much would change in my opinion. 🙂 The 701 is lighter for sure but I think the 450 still blows it away
Great to see you guys at it and a really great video! I miss the days I spent riding with Off-Road-Skills. Best wishes from Tokyo!
Thanks guys for honest video, it's a huge help for beginners
Can you do a comparison side by side ride between the tenere 700 vs the so claimed .baby tenere which is the cf moto 450mt
No, but we will review the CF Moto individually
An off the shelf 690 enduro comparison to either one of those bike would be very cool
Where specifically in Portugal are these trails? They look amazing 😮
Algarve near Sao Bras de Alportel.
Great vid. Watched it on my new TV. Looked amazing.
Thanks Campbell! Our first one in 4k!
Very timely and excellent review. This gives us mortals and fans of the Dakar Rally a better sense of how the official 450cc class professional rally bikes compare to our everyday commercial bikes like the Yamaha T700.
I have two KTM bikes. The street legal KTM 690 Enduro R and the KTM 890 Adventure. The KTM 690 Enduro R uses the same chassis as the KTM 450 rally version. In general these bikes are so tall for the plush suspension. Unfortunately I had to lower my KTM 690 to even get my feet to touch the ground. I did a 1,400 mile trip on my KTM 690 Enduro R. I can tell you doing a 200 mile per day ride on a 690 is a hard day. You're much better off on a adventure bike ( twin ) like the T700 or KTM 890 Adventure. So the adventure bikes have a place for the rest of us who don't ride flat out in deserts.
Great video, footage, and video ending. 5 stars. Two thumbs up. I love these types of reviews. Keep them coming and Happy New Year.
Kam
USA
Thanks for the rad comment! Just so you know, the KTM 690 chassis was similar to the KTM 690 rally chassis and 1st gen 450 Rally but isn't the same.
The rallye bikes have a lot more suspension travel and different geometry. Lyndon Poskit knows more than I do about that.
In 2021 the bikes have gone through multiple changes and just phased out the use of the trellis chassis altogether 🙂
Great video thanks for making it- great result for Si
Glad you enjoyed it
Super video 📹...both great bikes, and it's a tribute to the T7 that it's in the mix! Excellent filming and narrative too. And thanks for proving that my T7 is a great bike!!! Cheers Steve...ps Happy New year
Thanks Steven! Glad you enjoyed the video. Happy New year!
Great video! I live in algarve maybe i see you on the trails!
No way!
Another excellent video. Well done.
The limit on that WR450 Rally bike can be seen in MXGP and ISDE as its the same motor/chassis package as the YZ450F with modifications to handle higher percentages of speeds for longer distances. There really is no equipment limit on that platform, it's designed limit is purely skill and physical fitness. Whereas the T7 was designed to be an mt07 street platform massaged for offroad duty, whereas riders can overcompensate for the equipment limit by using skill and fitness, for example Pol Tarres and Kevin Gallas. The adventure bike will never be as good offroad as a rally bike and vise-versa, you would never daily commute highway miles on a wr450.
Great video!
I would like to see more videos with the Ténéré, incluing what you have done to it.
They are coming soon. Subscribe to see them 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine looking forward.
I'm already a subscriber. 😉
Thank you for the reply.
Happy New Year.
@@BRUNO5979 happy new year to you too!
Hey, you were in Portugal and you didn't put in the mix AJP PR7 ?
I know, what a terrible mistake.
Thank you for sharing, great video again. Some great riding.
Glad you enjoyed it It was our pleasure!
Such a scenery in Portugal
Why rally bike’s exhaust mounted down below foot pegs and out the back?
Instead of traditional under fender mounting
Power and fuel capacity. A straight long exhaust can make a lot more Power 😊
@Brake Magazine - Where did you get those lovely decals on your T7?
We sell them in our webshop. We have three colours with the one in the video launching soon. 🙂
Shop.brake-magazine.com
Rally bike is of course much more fun but 2 things you fail to mention .....
1.) How happy will people be changing oil every day on rally bike ?
2.) Price. People can buy two Tenere bikes ( with suspension upgrade and other extras ) for the price of one rally bike. Is it worth ?
Thanks for posting ....lovely riding.....
We did in the podcast we've recorded about it.
Cool video lads. Nice to see the Algarve trails feature so well. Ride safe and best of luck in The Dakar Sy.
End of the day as you said, there is no getting away from the weight with most modern adv bikes. Why they don’t make a lighter and simpler bike akin to a rally bike (but not 60 grand) I just don’t know.
I wonder how good the T7 would be with the GYTR 48mm suspension
Probably a little better. Still not as good.
Great stuff guys. Well done and thanks for your content 👍🏼
Phil from the nes forest, loved the review, very intuitive, as you say T7 not in the league of rally raid machine.
But then it doesn't cost 27,000, that amount is not close to the final rallyraid Dakar machine.
Great stuff.
What would really make the T7 good is a really well thought out aftermarket tank that can replace the stock tank similar to the TEAM KAPRIONY tank that Gian Paolo Mucci made for that T7 Rally raid +30mm suspension kit even go as far as fitting a set of 890 X-Act pro Rally forks even a good set of KTM 990 forks would be better. Pol Torres runs insane suspension on theirs. I am also convinced those frames are strengthened. TEAM KAPRIONY T7 has a new rear from aluminum but you need deep pockets. But no matter what you do a T7 will never be in the same league as a Dakar Rally 450 bike. Excellent work
If you read up on Pol Torres's bike it is all "stock". They make a point of pointing that out. Personally that is hard to believe especially with the things he can do with it but, that was one of the agreements with Yamaha and Pol that the bike remain stock..
It wasn't far from stock until they decided to do Romanians. He had a single brake conversion early on
I believe he has 48mm front end from a WR fitted now, different wheels and a bunch more stuff.
With our project bike, I toyed with all of those mods but it didn't fit with what our project bike is intended for.
That series will air soon but the idea is that I wanted to make the bike as good as it could be for the average person ona reasonable budget. I looked at every mod and if you want to you can easily spend €20K on the T7 and it wasn't the right direction.
@@BrakeMagazine Personally, I was hugely disappointed when the Rally version was just a cosmetic exercise, I would love a pro suspension component from Yamaha offered as an upgrade option Now one could argue £3-4K upgrade will not be in everyone's budget but I am sure there would have been at least a 10% uptake for it. The Rally version should have been their R version with 48mm forks, a definite missed opportunity but not something they could offer later now that the bike is maturing. For now, the Rally raid tractive suspension upgrade is the easiest aftermarket upgrade. Until more suppliers like Ohlins TFX and others offer similar solutions which are not cheap either but people that do use the bike off-road will invest in it. If there was a fuel tank that lowers the COG l would invest in it but none of the aftermarket suppliers even want to discuss that as an option.
@@stevebiron3036 I am sure there was some fettling with valving
“After watching Pol Tarres, it is quite good, but it’s still an ADV bike”
THANK you for this and your honesty. Everyone else raves about the T7 without facing the reality that it’s still a 450lbs ADV bike. I hear “Pol Tarres did this on it” all the time, but they never seem to mention that Tarres is one of the top Enduro riders in the world. Tarres could probably do that on any ADV bike, just as Chris Birch does insane shit on even heavier KTM’s.
It’s a fantastic machine, for sure, but it’s not a bike any average rider is going to be hitting any harder trails with.
Sounds like you need to come back for our project bike series. Episode one is live rn. Two is coming shortly. Four, you're gonna love four. 🤣
Pol Tarres came out of the womb pretty much like everyone else, was once a kid like everyone else. What's stopping people from bringing their capability up to the machine level?
Happy new year to all of you!
Was your video filmed on a public road or inside a Herdade? That place looked awesome to ride...
All public roads 🙂
Amazing video and fantastic location! (I am biased, you passed right where I live) keep the great work!
You live in Paradise.
Love your content gents, congrats. Where in west Portugal were these trails?
having watched the full video, I like it, its honest. Coming from enduro/mx to adventure I cringe when adventure/street riders tell me their adventure bikes are built for offroad
I agree, but there is quite a bit you can do. Go check out the final episode of our project bike series.
Awesome video as alway!! Will you release a video commenting the mods to your T7?
Four videos in fact!
Have you guys done a vid or podcast about where to start off-road racing and a bit of an overview of the whole landscape, coming from road racing and not wanting to dive into motocross I’d be keen to to see what alternatives are out there and how to start
Yup. We did a podcast on both getting into dirt bikes and getting into rally. We don't have one specifically about starting racing but it's covered in the Rally podcast 🙂
Amazing quality and content 👌 great bikes! I ride CRF1000L and yes it’s heavy
The 450s of the modern Dakars are great, no doubt, but the old Bikes 85 to 2000 still inspire me more, obviously, the other major difference was the higher speeds and essentially flatter longer stages. The drawbacks were lots of famous deaths with Sainct, Lalay, Meoni, Caldecott, to name just a few. My favourites were the 88 to 98 Tenere's, the 85 XL Honda, the amazing NXR series 86 to 89, also the Cagivas and the mighty KTM's, these were the real Dakar bikes and all racing in Africa.
Exactly, when they dropped the twins I lost interest. I remember riding to the Pink Lake to greet the riders. Those giant twins really were making the ground shake. I rode with Gaston Rahier, Peterhansel, ...
Thank you for this fantastic comparison.
Great comparison! Great to see that they are in their own leagues. I would love to see a video on what you have done to your T7. (And possibly why you picked it over the KTM 890R 😉)
Coming soon!!
@@BrakeMagazine this was very interesting thank you. You were a fan of the 890R so I too would be interested in a comparison with the T7 for the purpose of this video. And why not let’s throw in the 690/701 platform, which look to me as an excellent starting point too
Really great comparison we all pretend we’re riding a Dakar (well I do anyway 😄). Amazing footage and trails what part of Portugal did you film the ride ? It looks incredible
It's in the Algarve, southern part of Portugal
São Brás de Alportel, I believe.
@Brake Magazine It would be awesome if you could share the track/GPX.
Love it, I need to find some off-road training courses!
Very good content, congrats. And best land to Ride ! Portugal 🔥🔥 have good tracks um center of country too with more sand 👍😝
Would love to ride in the sand!
@@BrakeMagazine go to apostiça near Costa da Caparica ✊✊✊
This was awesome! Would the Rally bike perform better or worse in the Dakar if it was 50 kg lighter (but otherwise the same)?
Amazing tracks and trails guys! Where exactly are you in Portugal? Top video. Super informative, thanks!
Near Sao Bras De Alportel
@@BrakeMagazine are these trails part of Portuguese TET?
I am going to Portugal in a week renting crf300 and plan on covering most of TET.
Fantastic video. Thank you for the work you put into it!
@@sobdziad I have no idea sorry. If it crosses the Algavre it's likely though.
@@BrakeMagazine it does. So I am hoping 🤞to hit some of the same trails
Brilliant video, torn between the t7 and the 1100 africa twin.
We made a video about this 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine okay thanks, will try and find it.
@@ericstephenson3607 Adventure Bike of The Year 🙂
Hey there. Another great video! Would you mind sharing the location where you shot these? Recently moved to portugal rider here :)
Great video! Amazing cinematography! :-)
I have WR450 that is pretty stripped down, only a rear rack and some easily removed daddle and tank bags... good for going fast on fairlytechnical trails and you could go long distances on it but.. im going to get a T7 for longer trips and less technical riding 😂
I think it would also be very interesting to get a pre displacement cut dakar bike in the mix, since those maniacs used to ride 1000cc bikes and I always wondered how they compare to the new 450s
They don't. 🤣🤣 it's hard to get the full factory ones but the privateer ones I've ridden are like a good T7 now.
@@BrakeMagazine really? I always assumed they are a lot lighter. I always thought of something like a highland 950 V2 as a reference if you heard about that super rare brand. They weighed 165 kg with a 950 cc V2
Love seeing your adventures !
Thanks!
AMAZING VIDEO!
Thank you!
Is it possible to do a more in depth video on how the rally bike was built and what mods were made to it? I know it is a bit late for a build video now.
Yeah. We're gonna gonna do a podcast about it 🙂
Awesome Video😃👌
you mention how you are much quicker in this terrain on the rally bike than you'd be on an enduro bike. It would be really interesting to find out what the differences are and how to turn your normal WR450 into this for example
Thats statement is relative to a stock enduro bike not a modified one. I think it's mostly down to suspension set up, brakes and breadth of power.
All are achievable but I've never ridden a stock bike that was close to this.
Great video. Obviously the rally bike is better, but the T700 is pretty underpowered for its weight and mostly budget components. Funny thing is KTM once said "...450cc motorcycles, which are unthinkably unsuitable for use in long distance rallies" Would have been nice to see a timed wide open course with you both swapping bikes and using control tyres.
On paper it is but I think when you ride it it's surprisingly peppy feeling. That's a good idea on the timed course 🙂
Great Video, really interesting and honest review. Marketing of adventure bikes are very misleading to the novice. I'd love to see a comparison with a rally bike and the KTM 690 which looks like a closer match.
I think you'd be surprised. The 690/701 are lighter for sure, and very quick but the modern rallye bike is a long way away from it.
I think a rally built 690 will sit in between the two bikes presented in this clip, but I'll bet it will be closer to the WR.
I really enjoying your content, and with your wealth of knowledge I thought I’d ask if there’s any chance you could do a video on handle bar anti vibration solutions, I’ve been riding my T7 a few years and it’s the major thing that affects my comfort. My hands get quite buzzy after about 30mins, I try to have a relaxed grip, but it doesn’t make a huge difference. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Cheers
For any type of racing on two wheels especially off road. Im a total believer that lower weight is everything. Lighter means faster.
Was that on Algarve ir Alentejo 😃?
Good vid and good trails
That was a interesting vid. Thanks
The Yamaha 5 Valve singles are beasts !!!
Very nice video. It interesting to see how T7 compares to Dakar bike. It is obvious that T7 is very capable bike just feels heavy.
Yup.
Great comparison - enjoyed that. Can I ask why do you say fork not forks? This seems to be common now but always used to be forks as there 2 and therefore plural?
Great question. I have no idea. It's also calling jeans 'a jean' I suppose. Useless, futile, nonsense and something I do.
The decals on that T7 looks amazing.
Fantastic video!
Everything depends on where you ride. The T7 looks like a blast. So does the Rally bike.
Blokes are racing stripped down T700’s & doing well in Red Bull Romaniacs , pretty bloody good as they’re full on enduro’s.
I mean, Tarres is a bit more than you're average bloke bit I agree.
@Brake Magazine Very interested in how you like the Acerbis skid plate? Cannot find any reviews on that one online. My bike has the Yamaha aftermarket one and I do not like the shape of it and it also sounds like a huge bell when rocks hit it... :D
Sub for the project bike series coming soon. In short I like it. it's strong, quiet and good. Fitment is a 7/10. Little bit exposed in some bits for really technical riding but otherwise really good. Price in great. Weight is low.