Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica Fact or Fiction

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  • Опубліковано 25 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 62

  • @tomasriuka
    @tomasriuka 10 місяців тому

    Guys, if I am back in Miami some time in my life, you will be the first place I am visiting and shaking your hands for doing all these lives! The way you do it is simply outstanding in all senses. Working in film industry i do see many things, but the way you handle this is simply amazing - fantastic lighting, pro attitude, A+++ level viewer respect etc. THANK YOU! Greetings from Vilnius, Lithuania. P.s. Because of you I enjoy my M11P. There is nothing like taking a picture with Leica.

  • @krisceuppens5273
    @krisceuppens5273 2 роки тому +2

    I'm totally addicted to David and Josh at this point :-)

  • @jrprophotography5961
    @jrprophotography5961 2 роки тому +4

    Congrats guys. I am truly impressed by the quality of the advises that you are given. I am not a Leica shooter (nobody is perfect) but you do an excellent job at providing excellent info and not advertising only the brand. You are true believer (in Leica). By the way, I really would like to see the face of the people when you are telling them "no no no for the mountains far away do not use f16 or even f11" .... that should be fun. Congrats guys and please continue. Excellent show.

  • @dans.8198
    @dans.8198 2 роки тому +7

    @46:00 Correction: With ideal lenses, both shots will look identical, provided you pick the right apertures (larger on the 50mm). With real lenses, quality will be lower on the cropped shot, due to aberrations caused by the wider lens shot at a wider aperture and lower pixel count due to cropping. Vignetting will obviously be lower in the cropped shot.

    • @danielknight6580
      @danielknight6580 2 роки тому

      I agree. Picking the right aperture is an essential variable for matching results. Unfortunately if with the 90 mm you’re shooting at F2.0 then adjusting the aperture for the crop would require a 50mm Noctilux at or near it’s widest aperture.

  • @james-p
    @james-p 2 роки тому +4

    1:21:45 Some people do not understand the difference between "overpriced" and "expensive." Leica sells every body and lens they make. And then some, seeing as how many of their products are backordered. So they are obviously not overpriced. They're expensive, yes, but not overpriced.

    • @barrycohen311
      @barrycohen311 2 роки тому +1

      Heck, it's like a "Small Batch Bourbon" or something. You will always pay more for small batch / hand crafted. I think the Leicas are worth it, if one has the bread. If not, Fuji is a nice alternative. I shoot vintage Leica lenses on my Fuji bodies. I like the results.

  • @swedesrus25
    @swedesrus25 2 роки тому

    Your forum talks are so informative and after bingeing on the episodes about the Leica M10, M10 P, and the M11, I moved up from a much loved M-E (220) that I've shot with since 2013 with the original sensor, to a new (actually found one at Norman Camera Center) M10...just seemed to be the perfect camera still for me. Have printed crystal clear 3'x4' photographs with the 18mp sensor and the 24mp M10 should do everything I desire along with my 35mm Summicron. Your forum very much helped me make a happy decision! Well done!

  • @jessekoskinen
    @jessekoskinen 2 роки тому

    It was very kind of people to offer their 50mm dual range Summicrons for testing. Now if someone could lend their Thambar-M reissue lens for Leica Store Miami, I would be very grateful. I requested examples of a Thambar-M + M11 on 60mp combo, preferably outdoors in nature, but unfortunately Thambar-M is not part of their test kit. I'd loan mine, but I live in Finland.
    Great show!

  • @chrisb3962
    @chrisb3962 2 роки тому

    This was FANTASTIC. I loved it and welcome more q and a always! Thanks!
    I do wish I was in Miami to see you all!

  • @RS-Amsterdam
    @RS-Amsterdam 2 роки тому +1

    Good video !
    First shooting with a Rangefinder: It is not hard, focussing is the hard part and I am talking about portraits with a 50 mm or more, to get an eye in focus, is HARDER (but there is the magnifier as add on to help). IMO people who came form nothing and started with a Rangefinder had it easier than people that come form a new Digital camera and start shooting with a Rangefinder.
    Second Prices: People forget you have to compare the M10 or 11 (which are the flagships of Leica) with the FLAGSHIPS of Sony, Canon, Nikon (if they still have one), and NOW look at the price difference ... not that much anymore !!
    Third Lenses: IMO Glass is evil, so lenses with less glass but better glass are better than lenses with more glass to compensate for the flaws of lesser quality glass (give it some time to land) and also think of MIcroContrast (glass kills MC) so on the zooms we don't agree for 100%, say 75%. And the newer lenses are better (as long as you compare them in the same range like 50 to 50mm and summi to summi).
    Fourth Resolution: For Leica RF and SL IMO 24MP is more than enough. (think Low Light and Print Size you need) if you need so much more, pick up a Hasselblad H for portraits and fashion or a Phase One for groups, landscapes, cars (not moving) , or whatever needs more sharpness .
    Fifth Steadiness: M rangefinder camera's can suffer from focus misalignment by falling or the like (which can be serviced) .
    Thanks for sharing !!

  • @BrunoChalifour
    @BrunoChalifour Рік тому

    I like Josh and David and I enjoy RedDotForum greatly and I'll add a few facts from my own 40-year-old experience with Leicas: 1-to start a kit (full-frame digital or film) is more expensive with Leica than any other brand; 2-higher resolution requires higher shutter speed for equal results (please do not let image stabilisation enter the conversation as it is not the point); 3- "modern lenses are too clinical," I agree with them this is sort of BS, "clinical" is just like "character" (for old flawed lenses). Modern lenses have got far better optical qualities that anyone can ruin (or give them "character")[PS: I used to work in a portrait studio in the 1990s and we work with a Mamiya RB67 that had a diffusing filter in front of the lens because it was already "too sharp" ans still this was a "classical" lens; 3- to reinforce what D&J said about older lenses. My typical Leica M lens is a 35 mm, I have kept my so called "King of Bokeh" Summicron but compared to any of the more recent asph. 35 mm its corners are very soft at f. 2 a little better at f. 2.8 (so it has... 'character"); 4- UV filters with modern lenses (which have better coating) why had 2 surfaces air/glass to a lens you bought for its optical qualities (unless you are in a rain or sand storm ?! ; 5- Q and Q2 are real Leica cameras because of their fantastic 28 mm f 1.7 designed and manufactured by Leica (Leitz after all was a lens maker first); 6-about M cameras being good for street photography, of course, but they are also good for reportage, landscape, situational portraits, family events.... without a single street in sight ;o) ; 7-Leica is overpriced... a few facts in 1960 an M3+ 50 mm summicron was US $ 230 new, which equates to roughly $ 2300 today compare that to a digital M (or an M6) with a 50 mm Summicron and you'll see that the cost is roughly 400% more expensive... of course Dr Kaufmann saved Leica from what happened to Minolta or Kodak, and Leica stores round the world are very well-designed and fashionable spaces but... all this has a cost that the regular Leica user and professional photographer has to pay for; 8- 40 Mp M cameras are not able to handle slower speeds as well as a 40 Mp SL2 with stabilisation or a Nikon Z7 for that matter. I hope this can be useful to some.

  • @yungsoohong28
    @yungsoohong28 2 роки тому +1

    I find the 24 to 70 2.8 SL is actually a very good lens that used on CL camera , by combining the crop mode on CL is very useful, it is like a 30 to 190, and it is a 2.8

  • @dfj555
    @dfj555 2 роки тому +1

    According to Fred Miranda's' review of the Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton, it clearly outperformed the Leica 50/0.95 Noctilux. David, would you be willing to do a test, so we can get your point of view regarding the two aforementioned lenses? Thanks.

  • @irenedp4947
    @irenedp4947 2 роки тому +1

    re the differences between a CCD and CMOS sensors. I use four Leica Cameras, an M9, an S2, a Q1 and as per two weeks ago an M10r. I agree with David that the image from a CMOS sensor can be paired to that from a CCD, and also that the dynamic range is narrower. I can match exactly the color from the Q or the M10r to that of the M9 (for instance using match color in Image adjustments in Photoshop). That is important for me because I work professionally by projects, so images need to be consistent in color. But still I will say that although the M10r is superior to the M9 in almost every respect, I still love the M9 color and that is at the base of my work. The others match the M9 and not viceversa. On medium format, the S2 pairs with a Fuji GFX 100… very different color rendering and resolution. Same thing as before. The Fuji does all the S2 cannot, and the files are very good. But still the S2 files when sitting on a tripod with the right light are exceptional, so much better than the Fuji’s. And again I twist the Fuji color to match the rendering of the S2. The CCD color is exceptional, even the many limitations of the technology that goes with it. I imagine that is in the base of all the craze about the M9 and pursuing that color rendering. I love your shows, and thank you very much for all what you guys do!

  • @dans.8198
    @dans.8198 2 роки тому +1

    No dog in this episode. He was sent to Wetzlar for CLA.

  • @DavidHDennis
    @DavidHDennis 2 роки тому +3

    Didn’t you get a question about whether the SL2 autofocus was good enough to shoot birds/sports/etc? I was really curious about that one.

    • @tamilhoward9708
      @tamilhoward9708 2 роки тому

      I have an SL2-S and shoot birds. I use continuous low or high and electronic shutter.

  • @yungsoohong28
    @yungsoohong28 2 роки тому +1

    Used S lens is a very good deal now for photography used on SL now, it is slower on autofocus and video work, but it cost a lot less then SL prime. Plus you can not get prime lens of SL past 90mm.And you can keep that Leica look. And the 120 mm S is the only autofocus full frame macro of Leica, other then 90 macro M.

    • @Biosynchro
      @Biosynchro 2 роки тому

      That's a very good point. Those S lenses are not just great lenses, but they are built incredibly well. I'd say to cinema standards. The bonus is that you should, in theory, be able to use them with a shift adapter on the SL bodies.

  • @62smarty
    @62smarty 2 роки тому

    I shot most of my time Kodachrome 25 and 64. The M8.2 comes very near but I also use SL and M240. Different, not the same but each one has its pros and cons. The M8.2 is great in red, green and blue tones in good daylight. Shot with Summicron 50mm/2.0 V4.

  • @yungsoohong28
    @yungsoohong28 2 роки тому

    The add on button for M shutter release is a must for slow shutter on M, I have follow the technique that thought on traditional Leica document how to hold the M, I can get 1/4 of sec sharp sharp image on a M10p with a 35.

  • @adamspencer9280
    @adamspencer9280 2 роки тому

    Regarding Summicron DR, does it focus out to Infinity, I believe it had some limited range on prior Digital M's but now over full range and seem to remember reading somewhere it was beyond 4m's to Infinity. Many thanks.

  • @tjmanou6422
    @tjmanou6422 2 роки тому

    Leica to photographer is like a katana to a samurai. part of your soul ;)

  • @alxmnslv
    @alxmnslv 2 роки тому

    MY QUESTION FOR THE NEXT LIVESTREAM: Given the new "medium format look" and dynamic range of the M11...would you consider the S3 superseded at this point? If the next SL3 includes a sensor with similar tech to the one in the M11, with its focus on skin tones, low noise, vastly improved dynamic range and high megapixel count could it be considered a direct replacement for the S line? specially taking into account that the quality of glass available for the SL line, the APO primes and the zooms, is already superior to S and M lenses? Basically my question is how can the S line compete with the SL line if the SL gets the new sensor from the M11? Thanks for the hours (days!) of entertainment.

  • @seattlevkk
    @seattlevkk 2 роки тому

    Why is aperture diffraction camera dependent and not lens dependent? David had different aperture numbers depending on the camera and why I'm asking.

  • @MelonAMango
    @MelonAMango 2 роки тому

    Will Leica ever provide a phase detect upgrade program for their SL 601, SL2, and/or SL2-S (especially since it is targeted for video)? I'd love to have phase detect to improve for video purposes.
    Will there be third party wireless flash support like Godox, Profoto etc in the near future?
    Will Leica come up with some XLR adapter to support XLR mic on the Leica SL bodies for mic input? Like the Panasonic and Sony alternative.

  • @parkshilliard
    @parkshilliard 2 роки тому

    For those of us who view your discussion later, the number of ads inserted is getting obnoxious and a turn-off. I will be dropping subscribing if you don’t adjust UA-cam to insert significantly less ads. ☹️

  • @yungsoohong28
    @yungsoohong28 2 роки тому

    Difference generation of Leica lens have difference degree of transition from sharpe to softness. People called that transition, the traditional Leica look ( the creamy sharpness)

  • @MB-or8js
    @MB-or8js 2 роки тому

    34:49 - Not fiction, it depends on the focal length. I have used all kind of M-lenses very successfully on my full-frame Sony A7R in the past. Wider lenses can be troublesome adapted to a non-Leica camera but everything above 35 mm works very well. Main reason for me to get a Leica M was the wider M lens performance 28 mm and wider. 35 mm focal length is a tricky pony on a non Leica camera body - some work well, others don't. Actually Leica pre-ASPH 35 mm M-lenses work much better here than newer lens versions.

  • @tangalan009
    @tangalan009 2 роки тому

    would there be a black paint version for the M11 or coming M11P?

  • @hetschipVeronica
    @hetschipVeronica 2 роки тому

    IMHO, a rangefinder does require experience to use. Not the technical aspect, that is 'just' a craft to be learned. But using a window with some lines, with no depth of field indication etc to create your photo takes a lot of experience in pre-visualisation, especially when you come from a 'my-viewer-shows-my-photograph' system

  • @charlesswart5785
    @charlesswart5785 2 роки тому

    Brilliant thanks once again !

  • @TheVFXbyArt
    @TheVFXbyArt 2 роки тому

    34:49
    Not fiction, true.
    I’ve shot leica lenses on fuji bodies since 2018. The fujixt3 offers:
    1) no shutter lag, you shoot at the speed of film.
    2) way better hilight retention in dr400 mode.
    3) film sims offer artistic options.
    4) weather resistant body
    5) no ray angle issues because of the cropped aps-c sensor
    6) clever tilt screen
    7) built in evf.
    8) better price point
    9) you can set it up to be as simple as the leica.
    The above offers more than usable jpgs, the complement the speed of street photography. No more under exposing images to retain hilight, no more needless hours spent in post production

  • @PiotrPavlov
    @PiotrPavlov 2 роки тому

    Great show!

  • @tangalan009
    @tangalan009 2 роки тому

    is it easy to rangefinder focus of a 75 noctilux on a M body?

  • @tangalan009
    @tangalan009 2 роки тому

    do i have to pay for the youtube premium so to leave question at the show?

    • @Biosynchro
      @Biosynchro 2 роки тому

      No, I don't think so. You can either just leave a comment in the live chat, or send a superchat if you want.

  • @benjhaisch
    @benjhaisch 2 роки тому +2

    🙌🏼

  • @Jonahc-u6h
    @Jonahc-u6h 2 роки тому

    How about the (egads!)x2? Yes, outdated in many respects to the Q, but wow… it is compact, one’s really gets the perception of analog, …. And easy to shoot images that represent film not to state difference in $. A lost Leica over shadowed by the latest and greatest and false sense that one needs more. Thoughts?

  • @stevenbrandt2280
    @stevenbrandt2280 2 роки тому

    Love your show!

  • @yungsoohong28
    @yungsoohong28 2 роки тому

    I find the vignetting of old leica lens can help keeping the viewer focus to the centre subject. Leica design the dark corner is so slightest that actually help the viewer to see the focus of the picture, especially true when doing regular Portraits.

    • @Biosynchro
      @Biosynchro 2 роки тому

      I respectfully disagree. Vignetting is very distracting, and I don't allow it on any of my photos. And usually the subject is off-centre, anyway.

  • @hetschipVeronica
    @hetschipVeronica 2 роки тому

    Sensor dust is part of digital photography.... Remember film? DUST is part of photography

  • @tangalan009
    @tangalan009 2 роки тому

    why not name the 90mm 1.5 as a Noctilux? and just a summilux ?

    • @dans.8198
      @dans.8198 2 роки тому

      Noctilux is used for lenses faster than f/1.4.

  • @profhamel
    @profhamel 2 роки тому

    Apple does not manufacture its own semiconductors. It doesn't own a fab. Apple designs its own chips, which is still very rare. Most of Apple's chips are made by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

  • @shanecaut1063
    @shanecaut1063 2 роки тому

    I can't find the live chat box, hope this might be it ;)

  • @zenonkontolemis1232
    @zenonkontolemis1232 2 роки тому

    Fact? The 50mm summilux new in silver is brass made.

    • @RedDotForum
      @RedDotForum  2 роки тому +1

      Yes, that's correct. The current 50mm Summilux ASPH in silver is made of brass, not aluminum.

  • @palamj2
    @palamj2 2 роки тому +1

    C’mon to put together a Leica kit is expensive.

  • @gaco49
    @gaco49 Рік тому

    Yassss

  • @richarddenise3886
    @richarddenise3886 2 роки тому

    MAYBE LEICA SHOULD CHANGE ITS LOGO FROM A RED DOT TO PLAID? ;-)

  • @RichardBrown-w3m
    @RichardBrown-w3m Рік тому

    Leica M11 + Broncolor = no go..

  • @wanderingwongs7464
    @wanderingwongs7464 2 роки тому

    👏

  • @richarddenise3886
    @richarddenise3886 2 роки тому

    TERRIFIC SHOW - EVEN FOR YOUR HIGH STANDARDS! I WANT TO SEE PHOTOS FROM ICELAND! HAVE A SAFE AND FUN TRIP!

  • @temporalpassage
    @temporalpassage Рік тому

    Why must you keep interupting each other in their mids of a sentence almost every point? Let each finish their sentence.

  • @jonashovden
    @jonashovden 2 роки тому +2

    A 21mm cropped to 28 mm standing at the same distance gives exactly the same compression as a nativ 28mm. Also a 50mm cropped to 75mm it's the same way. A litle bit shocked about your misinformation in this topic. The dept of field are going to be deference tho. Hope you guys can research an look for your self :)

    • @Biosynchro
      @Biosynchro 2 роки тому +1

      It's the myth that just won't die!

  • @johnjon1823
    @johnjon1823 2 роки тому

    At an absolute minimum there should be time stamps, and preferably labelled chapters right on the video timeline itself. Even as a great movie two hours is too long, as a UA-cam exercise already recorded as some live feed and then placed on UA-cam it is just nuts. I may be interested in learning about Leica, but not listening to 2 hours of blather.
    PS I came back to give you a thumbs down. You deserve it.

    • @RedDotForum
      @RedDotForum  2 роки тому

      Sorry you feel that way. We did add timestamps. But since this is a live show, timestamps need to be added manually after the fact, which takes a fair amount of time.