Balancing a civ because of team games is a stupid idea and will just open a can of worms, balancing civs based on team play is pointless and will only lead to more issues in the 1v1 scene
@@FimbongBass unit vs unit , china has the best unique units that blasts everything , in late game plays like this , only chinese units poop up out of fights. Thinking about some elephants to destroy walls without the need of siege is a good unit
This game was pretty hype tbh. However playing team games and seeing the demoship spam, firelancer spam, 20 minute wonders etc gets a bit tiresome after a few games of it. I hope they really get around fixing stuff that is broken faster in the future.
Placing towers with springald upgrade along the river, but not close enough to get blasted. Should kill the demo ships before they get passed. The tower springalds are not nerfed like the seige unit.
I think the HRE castles were smart, but stone walls initially were a poor choice on the river crossing. palisades would have been cheaper and faster to build than the cost of the demos wasting the strategy. Or go on the offensive and pull down the docks. I didn't see any culverin either... so not sure if that could have worked.
Seems like the normal bug with the double explosion was upgraded by Vortix to 6 explosions or something like that. Probably mashed the key and got the "explode" order several times in. 10/10, GOTY.
Yes, they did an interview where they admitted it. Mista was doing a 4tc double dock boom to feed him and Lucifron also gave him gold. They wanted the palace of swabia as early as possible but getting age 4 demos was the crux of their strategy.
age of empires at its finest. that last battle was set up beaitifully by beasties team, every unit was positioned perfectly to protect the cannons and all the knights made a shield but stats and upgrades simply won out
this is the first game i ever binged on. AOE 1&2, 2v2. all time game. could have won but was a novice on hittie. my partner was weak. had to destroy him because he ran behind my lines, starting hogging my resources from me while i battled 2v1. had to destroy him as well. my last stand, super catapults, top of the hill against 2 assyrian w/ horse archers. if you know assyrians were the easiest civ to master. i do believe i would have beat them had my ally not been greedy. 4.5 hrs of pure battle! at the end of a 30 hour session. before that the only kind of game you had like this was populace, which was a lot of fun as well if not just a little different.
I wonder why Demuslim contiuned to produce mass knights when his opponents made mass spearman if he would switch to MAA it weould work much better as Mista team did not had a single mangonel
They might have done okay against the fire lancers and the spearmen, but they would have been overrun in the end fights, especially against those ridiculous MaA. The palings could have been interesting against the mounted units but can just be maneuvered around. Recon's army size was a big problem in those end fights. Is pocket generally low on resources?
@@TheGenghisjuan if you micro the hell out of mass bows placement of pallings... you can do a lot to prevent routing: think triangle shape of pallings with bows in middle. of course, countered by splash siege. in my experience pocket can be low on resources if they don't trade and farm, but vortix did fine with insane speed imp.
In terms of the big fights, it seemed to me like Recon's army contribution was always really small, but on the graphs at the end it showed him having tons of military units - where were they? Still walking across the map?
There should be option to change colors to blue team and red team... It will be easy to follow battle.... With all colors, it's hard to know which team is dominating and which team is losing the battle.
They should just go with "warm colours vs cool colours", that way you can still identify the individual players. So, Red, Orange and Yellow... vs Blue, Green and Purple.
@@gixG17 100% agree with this as a best solution - which i think we will see in a near patch. I still play with unique over team colors, because its not too difficult after you use it for a period of time and team communications is much stronger with unique coloring.
demo ships are broken and the range is unintended. it's not even a question of balance they should just remove them from being able to damage land units.
If you fix the range, and the fact that they do literally twice the intended damage (my understanding is that the second explosion is unintended), I'm not sure you would need to nerf demos. As you can see, there's clear counterplay, and the main issue is just how much damage they do, and at such an incredible range. These are bugs that need to be fixed, not really a balance issue. One other thing, however, is that springalds need their bonus damage to ships back. Lidakor hit the nail on the head. The only land unit that used to be able to take on demos and ships outside of bombards is springalds. If the only counterplay is to push to imperial age and make extremely expensive units, the game definitely isn't balanced.
I'm not a pro and these are the best players in the world but I feel like French in 3v3 with the red palace and a 20k+ stone turn in would he such a big win condition.
Just patch this fing game already.... So many bugs and exploits, not even talking about balance.... Just ask all pro players to help balancing/give ideas, Hera and Viper already said they would love to help !!
Demo ships def need to be toned down but when it comes to specific civs being balanced because of how they perform in team games, it’s a bad idea. Other then that this was a fun af game to watch
If only Demos were nerfed or Beasty's team went with their own demos this would have been a completely different game. Vortex for the whole game was like 'I'm gonna take out your Stealth Bombers with my Gunmans'. (Which is utterly ridiculous) XDDDDDDDDD
demo ships man, breaking the game , it needs the same kind of nerf that springalds got , like , making them especialist units cause right now they are just too much for their cost
So stupid to suggest balancing in a TEAM game, 1v1 is how the game should be balanced and no more, china is just barely competitive in the 1v1 scene but you want them nerfed more because of team games, not thinking at all on how much that would affect them in 1v1s, use your brain
Capital ships are more awesome in this game then they ever were in Starcraft. I had hoped they kept demo's radius and added friendly fire instead. It's such an iconic unit.
The wonder victory was redundant. At best, it forced the other team to lose faster because they were already having a huge advantage before even building the wonder.
Teamgames in aoe on bigger maps are simply not fun to watch. U have to much ressources, just rush a wonder and whoever rushes first basically wins. Because with 200 total population its kinda impossible to do a landpush on bigger maps. Probably the biggest weakness of this rts compared to a lot of other rts games.
@@JorenMathews Still don't think it's op. Just get better at defending or attacking before they can put it out. I can agree that in team games it seems op, but still if they are so op why did the other team not use them then? Bc they got outplayed
@@OzzI-DKPL they're clearly bugged. The explosion is hitting multiple times. There is no way that's intentional. It's probably an effect caused by the damage hitting for different numbers at different ranges.
@@TheGenghisjuan Might be true, I did notice that. But What is the point of having it in the game if you nerf it? (besides the bug you mention) Having to use 750 resources on 3 demo ships and wait 1min 30sek just so you can finally destroy a wall? And my oppenent can one shot them with any decent long range unit. The bug just made them seem op :)
![$20,000 Pro League 3v3 Grand Final - Game 3 [AoE4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eWqrXO7MWtc/mqdefault.jpg)
![$20,000 Pro League 3v3 Grand Final - Game 3 [AoE4]](/img/tr.png)
Other teams play RTS in general but Lucifron's team plays AoE4. They exploit the game in its currently state perfectly throughout the tournament.
They are artists.
Listen, we can all agree that demos, fire lancers, and chinese siege in general need to be fixed, but that game was still pretty hype imo
Balancing a civ because of team games is a stupid idea and will just open a can of worms, balancing civs based on team play is pointless and will only lead to more issues in the 1v1 scene
@@FimbongBass unit vs unit , china has the best unique units that blasts everything , in late game plays like this , only chinese units poop up out of fights. Thinking about some elephants to destroy walls without the need of siege is a good unit
@@FimbongBass while that's true they're an issue in 1v1s as well. Either OP or bugged
This game was pretty hype tbh. However playing team games and seeing the demoship spam, firelancer spam, 20 minute wonders etc gets a bit tiresome after a few games of it. I hope they really get around fixing stuff that is broken faster in the future.
Wonderwin means you are passive. Demoships are kinda useless when your enemy use siege engines, and firelancer is nerfed.
they change the cost of wonder yesterday
Those battles were fucking *EPIC.*
LoL never saw one till now now i wanna buy the Game
So glad drogo continues to cast!!!
5:45 what do delhi players have to do with fishing? do they have some type of fishing boat counter?
Delhi fishing boats can attack.
Placing towers with springald upgrade along the river, but not close enough to get blasted. Should kill the demo ships before they get passed. The tower springalds are not nerfed like the seige unit.
no doesnt work, explosives doubles their explosion range to stupid range
I think the HRE castles were smart, but stone walls initially were a poor choice on the river crossing. palisades would have been cheaper and faster to build than the cost of the demos wasting the strategy. Or go on the offensive and pull down the docks. I didn't see any culverin either... so not sure if that could have worked.
Seems like the normal bug with the double explosion was upgraded by Vortix to 6 explosions or something like that. Probably mashed the key and got the "explode" order several times in. 10/10, GOTY.
Wait... Is that actually working???
When 20k is on the line, it pays to cheese.
What an amazing game! Also I love to see the Abbasids used, even if they are only viable in team games.
Did Vortix teammates sling him some resources for him to get up to Imperial that fast?
Definitely. HRE in these 3v3 matches often gets slung and they're out there with ridiculous infantry by mid game
Yes, they did an interview where they admitted it. Mista was doing a 4tc double dock boom to feed him and Lucifron also gave him gold. They wanted the palace of swabia as early as possible but getting age 4 demos was the crux of their strategy.
age of empires at its finest. that last battle was set up beaitifully by beasties team, every unit was positioned perfectly to protect the cannons and all the knights made a shield but stats and upgrades simply won out
Dude I love the game but it is soo buggy its crazy they need to put out a patch addresing it. Hope it will be so
33:45 "part of the reason" that bit sounds like it was played on 1.5x speed 😄
Nice job commenting this game. 🤘
That demo ship is straight busted LOL I don’t even play this game and it two taps a stone wall nah
this is the first game i ever binged on. AOE 1&2, 2v2. all time game. could have won but was a novice on hittie. my partner was weak. had to destroy him because he ran behind my lines, starting hogging my resources from me while i battled 2v1. had to destroy him as well. my last stand, super catapults, top of the hill against 2 assyrian w/ horse archers. if you know assyrians were the easiest civ to master. i do believe i would have beat them had my ally not been greedy. 4.5 hrs of pure battle! at the end of a 30 hour session. before that the only kind of game you had like this was populace, which was a lot of fun as well if not just a little different.
27:15 Welcome to Age of Explosives 4
Best part of the video.
Crazy game! Poor Demuslim and his knights!
should have known better than to cross. Maybe they were hoping to catch some units in the middle unawares. shame either way
Too many times ive watched you cast and demo's be completely overpowered and even instantly call games.
How are players chosen to be part of these leagues?
In game series like this, show the score somewhere on top. And how many games its a best of, like Bo3,5 or 7? We dont know.
I wonder why Demuslim contiuned to produce mass knights when his opponents made mass spearman if he would switch to MAA it weould work much better as Mista team did not had a single mangonel
green had mangonels as well as springalds
Would it have been better for recon to go mass longbows?
They might have done okay against the fire lancers and the spearmen, but they would have been overrun in the end fights, especially against those ridiculous MaA. The palings could have been interesting against the mounted units but can just be maneuvered around. Recon's army size was a big problem in those end fights. Is pocket generally low on resources?
@@TheGenghisjuan if you micro the hell out of mass bows placement of pallings... you can do a lot to prevent routing: think triangle shape of pallings with bows in middle. of course, countered by splash siege. in my experience pocket can be low on resources if they don't trade and farm, but vortix did fine with insane speed imp.
saddly the demo ships are beyond bugged, it has triple the intended range and does multiple explosions.
33:00 Bombard tower are killing it
Those demos are ridiculously bugged...
In terms of the big fights, it seemed to me like Recon's army contribution was always really small, but on the graphs at the end it showed him having tons of military units - where were they? Still walking across the map?
These multi player matches are soon good. Love the dynamics compared to 1v1 much more
that game was absolutely insane
I think beastyt should have spamed cheap spearmans to help with his siege push
EPIC 3v3!!!
What's an Straellbora? EDIT: It's Archer.
that was hella fun to watch
that was the best battle!
There should be option to change colors to blue team and red team... It will be easy to follow battle.... With all colors, it's hard to know which team is dominating and which team is losing the battle.
They should just go with "warm colours vs cool colours", that way you can still identify the individual players. So, Red, Orange and Yellow... vs Blue, Green and Purple.
@@gixG17 100% agree with this as a best solution - which i think we will see in a near patch. I still play with unique over team colors, because its not too difficult after you use it for a period of time and team communications is much stronger with unique coloring.
Demos do double damage and explode twice so do 4x the intended damage at twice the intended range.
That demolition ship was dope! It was nonstop! I couldn't get enough of it!
This game looks pretty grand at its highest stage.
demo ships are broken and the range is unintended. it's not even a question of balance they should just remove them from being able to damage land units.
If you fix the range, and the fact that they do literally twice the intended damage (my understanding is that the second explosion is unintended), I'm not sure you would need to nerf demos. As you can see, there's clear counterplay, and the main issue is just how much damage they do, and at such an incredible range. These are bugs that need to be fixed, not really a balance issue. One other thing, however, is that springalds need their bonus damage to ships back. Lidakor hit the nail on the head. The only land unit that used to be able to take on demos and ships outside of bombards is springalds. If the only counterplay is to push to imperial age and make extremely expensive units, the game definitely isn't balanced.
I'm not a pro and these are the best players in the world but I feel like French in 3v3 with the red palace and a 20k+ stone turn in would he such a big win condition.
Man this game was awesome
Great Casting, Great Game
Best strategy is always building plenty of walls and towers for the walls
What a game. What a game.
demuslim? the starcraft player?
Wow. Demo ships are way too OP
Just patch this fing game already.... So many bugs and exploits, not even talking about balance.... Just ask all pro players to help balancing/give ideas, Hera and Viper already said they would love to help !!
That was a great game.
Demo ships def need to be toned down but when it comes to specific civs being balanced because of how they perform in team games, it’s a bad idea. Other then that this was a fun af game to watch
Their incredible damage is actually a bug of them detonating twice. The range is also way high higher than advertised.
@@Astro-Rabby i believe it is more than twice. I think 4 times. If you see the damage to the castle, you can see it takes 4 separate hits to it's HP
If only Demos were nerfed or Beasty's team went with their own demos this would have been a completely different game.
Vortex for the whole game was like 'I'm gonna take out your Stealth Bombers with my Gunmans'. (Which is utterly ridiculous)
XDDDDDDDDD
anyone else thinks they should have gone through the middle the second time? too bad, big beasty / demuslim fan.
Recon was dragging the team.
Yeah it was difficult for me to tell what happened there, where were all their units?
Recon is by far the worst player and the reason for his team losing
@@ApePostle I think they lost because of getting demoed 24/7, enemy just got too much ahead and too big of an advantage by exploiting bugs.
Vortix played zerg. He is still baneling busting
What a game!
Fishing ships should only heal from the dock when no combat is happening, similar to knights
What an epic game! Epic pushes vs epic tower defenses! Thank you for casting!!
That demoship play was disgusting. They must be nerfed super hard.
demo ships man, breaking the game , it needs the same kind of nerf that springalds got , like , making them especialist units cause right now they are just too much for their cost
The mongols didn’t run around the Great Wall btw they breached the weakest point after getting reports from a turncoat
Holy roman fast imperial :P
Demolition ships is the only worth-ship for Delhi, overall they suck at water maps
This is why team games are fun. Chinese bombards, fire lancers and demos need to be fixed and TGs would be much more fun.
So stupid to suggest balancing in a TEAM game, 1v1 is how the game should be balanced and no more, china is just barely competitive in the 1v1 scene but you want them nerfed more because of team games, not thinking at all on how much that would affect them in 1v1s, use your brain
@@FimbongBass No, Pro League wouldn't have happened if game was just to be played 1v1. TGs will also get rankings and tournaments.
attack from the left site was a better option
demo ships on danube are why I stopped playing back in december I'd rather just watch casted games at this point.
Capital ships are more awesome in this game then they ever were in Starcraft.
I had hoped they kept demo's radius and added friendly fire instead. It's such an iconic unit.
It's a nuke.
A 3v3 that lasts longer than 19 minutes dam....
Great game, best 3v3 i've ever seen.
27:27
ITS THE UNITED STATES! LMFAO I'M NOT MAD ABOUT IT
Demoships are op..
Omg, wonder victory must be forbidded.. it is so unfair. And demo ships are using like nuclear explosives in middle ages? This game has so many bugs!
The wonder victory was redundant. At best, it forced the other team to lose faster because they were already having a huge advantage before even building the wonder.
Red didn't turn up to the fight
5 waves 420 dmg each 2100 dmg
Teamgames in aoe on bigger maps are simply not fun to watch. U have to much ressources, just rush a wonder and whoever rushes first basically wins. Because with 200 total population its kinda impossible to do a landpush on bigger maps. Probably the biggest weakness of this rts compared to a lot of other rts games.
Demos explode twice per upgrade, so...
The battles are spectacular but the demo ship is a joke.
Danooobe river😆
Don't think demo ships are op, they seem op bc the opponent give him the option to explode them himself. But the fishing ship to 35sek is good
They're obviously OP. Nobody can micro perfectly, and having one demo ship slip through to one shot a quarter of the screen is stupid.
@@JorenMathews Still don't think it's op. Just get better at defending or attacking before they can put it out. I can agree that in team games it seems op, but still if they are so op why did the other team not use them then? Bc they got outplayed
@@OzzI-DKPL they're clearly bugged. The explosion is hitting multiple times. There is no way that's intentional. It's probably an effect caused by the damage hitting for different numbers at different ranges.
@@TheGenghisjuan Might be true, I did notice that. But What is the point of having it in the game if you nerf it? (besides the bug you mention) Having to use 750 resources on 3 demo ships and wait 1min 30sek just so you can finally destroy a wall? And my oppenent can one shot them with any decent long range unit. The bug just made them seem op :)
This game my love open challenge some one fight for me
I done a stinky fart x
the demonship abuse ... wasnt enjoyable to watch
Stayed for Drongo
That demolition ship is a dumb mechanic and players should not use it.
demo are bugged
demos completely ruined this game
Demo ships are clearly OP.
Tournament of exploits... I Dont blame them, but man is it sad.
DeMuslim is 11x times better than Beasty
Beasty had the worst micro i ever seen in my entire life, 33:00, he only controlls bombards and nest of bees, what a ruin xDDDDDDD
demo should not be allowed
How can anyone tell this is a good game??? It was a buggy mess of a game, unfortunately :(
Demo ships are lame, makes it feel like a cheat code imo, was a good game other wise
boring game cuz the demoships was bugged
well for the price of 20k people are definetly gonna abuse and exploit these bugs to the fullest, they should have been disqualified for it
At this state of the game: Fun to watch - no fun to play
the game is trash
Fellas? Are ya sexist or only seek a male audience?? Nice content though, you make the game fun to watch.
That was a great game