I’ve always thought about how ico was made before and wondered what the original plans were like fleshing it out, before the lore of shadow of the colossus came into effect, what was the village he came from like, what about his parents etc
@@Lalatellevizion It is interesting, actually. Because when you start the game, we can see the doors are left wide open, it’s just the bridge that’s retracted. And remains open by default when Ico and Yorda first try to escape. If the doors were really open all the time, both parts of the gate’s latch should be equally worn away by the elements. It makes me wonder if the gates stay closed most of the time, but open for a specific occasion. Maybe as a signal to bring in a sacrifice?
It's so hard when there's soooo many questions and no actual answers T_T But at least we have people like you and nomad to document all this! Thank you for your hard work :) Also Yorda looks so cute in that demo with her little shawl!
I think that perhaps, if we assume that Ico and SoTC are happening in the same timeline, that pattern could be linked to some kind of prophecy. Emon already seems to have extensive knowledge on Dormin, his people may know the curse that the forbidden spell would bring on them. Maybe Wander's actions were destined to happen, so that Ico's plot could take place hundreds or thousands of years later. Not the best theory, but perhaps some weak links can be made. As always, thank you for these comprehensive deep dives on Ueda's work, this one was top-notch. Lord bless you! 🙏🙏
8:16 i know i've already commented in this video but i always thought ico, the queen and yorda all shared some kind of magic. Like they're all pieces from the same puzzle.
@@Lalatellevizion Ico is certainly capable of supernatural feats, particularly in athletic ability and general durability. I believe there is magic inside of him and the other horned children that were sacrificed. But unlike Yorda and the Queen, he has no means to utilize magic beyond his passive strength. That internal magic may still may be affecting these switches. But it seems just as likely, given their size, that they either require multiple people to stand on them, or at least expect that to be common.
2:38 BEFORE I CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS: With that in mind, Is there a possibility that the Master of the Valley, from The Last Guardian, may have a similar pattern? I mean, sure, its still different, but still I checked on wiki and there was some, if my eyes aren't betraying me I also didn't believe that TLG was in the same universe nor has any directly relation to Dormin. I mean, sure, they share the same use of color cyan, horns, beasts and etc, yet it was just a part of GenDESIGN's(former team ico) identity at this point. Now I need to see the theories, but not only I returned to these games with new eyes, I also kinda opened my eyes to this and believe that yes, it is. They could be in the same universe, however either as a different deity that may or may not share the same origin or "blood" with Dormin. They may be like most of polytheist phantheons from real life? Or could even have something similar to what the main villain(The Devil) of Dunmeshi is, like all distinct deities are the same or part of one big god. After all, Its not like Dormin would be the only Deity of this world at this point.
No secret message this time? Really though, I'm glad this video exists to document all the times the Ico pattern is used through the game. Great structure and editing by the way
@@masterknuckles1888 Thanks so much! Also I will confirm there was a message, but it was just a little silly. Idk if it would be worth scrubbing the video for.
i was thinking the pattern in ico glows in presence of yorda or sunlight And also in presence of sunlight in sotc (through the sword) , so there is no point in saying they have different meanings. Then u literally said u dont agree with me at 14:43 😭. Anyways why do you think they have a different significance? I wouldve loved to see you use the pattern to try to link the two games together more and give your theory because i dont think anyone has done that
@@yashveersingh6633 My comment there was in anticipation of people who believe Shadow of the Colossus enforces a retroactive continuity (retcon) that *should always* change the understanding of ICO. That is what I disagree with. For example, people don’t try to ponder the myriad reasons why the horned children exist anymore, because everyone has played Shadow of the Colossus and then agrees the only reason must be: Wander began the lineage of horned children. I think people are allowed to have that theory, but it shouldn’t be the default. Because tying these games together was not always the plan. The Sigil wasn’t used on the Colossi until around the time that The Spider colossus was designed. And you try telling me how Dormin, Emon, and Mono are supposed to fit into the original NICO multiplayer concept. The connections we find now are merely the result of Ueda deciding years later that he could form loose ties to his first work in an interesting way. The ties he makes back to ICO in SotC are inevitably influenced by SotC’s themes and its narrative, it is an add-on. But now, due in part to Shadow’s popularity within the Team ICO fan community, few are willing to accept a discussion of ICO’s lore that does not involve Shadow of the Colossus. Within the community that’s been formed, the game is not allowed to stand on its own. Bring up The Queen and someone else will bring up Dormin. And that’s very frustrating to me. Because I do like Shadow of the Colossus, but imagine if every time you wanted to talk about the Colossi and their potential origins, people asked why you didn’t mention Trico and implied that you’re being weird for not examining Shadow of the Colossus alongside The Last Guardian. In this case, of course, I did bring up SotC in my video’s discussion. But that was partly because I felt a pressure to do so. After all, if I hadn’t brought it up, how much of the comments’ section would be dominated by people mentioning the connection? This is why I ended up including it with the emphasis on conversation (compare and contrast) rather than deliberate connection. I want ICO to be analyzed independently, to stand on its own merits. Have conversations with the other games, but not be defined by their lore. If it needs Shadow of the Colossus to be a complete story, then ICO has no identity of its own. (I apologize if this comment felt heated. Your message was very kindly formatted and I appreciate that. If it felt like I was lashing out at you at any point, that was never my intent, but I’ve scanned this over a few times and don’t know to word any of this differently. I feel very strongly about this topic.)
@@Mystic_Ode though you think differently about this game than others ( everyone likes to relate the two games because of the similarities and make theories) I understand you. However would you like to relate the two games if ico was considered the prequel( that's how I perceive the two games) because then you wouldn't need sotc to explain icos story.
@@yashveersingh6633 I suppose if the additions SotC made to the lore were chronological, I would be more at ease connecting them. But I think the distance of time and space was very intentional. It feels like two episodes in an anthology. To give you my best answer, I'd probably frame it like this: The Pattern has a mystical quality, somewhat tied to the nature of the world's magic. At some point, humans discovered this facet of the world and used it for different purposes. They learned that it is something of an anchor for reflected sunlight and that they could convert that sunlight into a source of Light Magic with the proper technology. After this discovery, it was widely adopted as a symbol to distinguish one as part of a culture, specifically a culture of workers, architects, and the like. But this natural symbol of their world also references horned figures in its structure, and this works well for ICO's narrative in the sense that the horned children are literally being used by The Queen for the Light Magic they produce after being placed in their capsules. We see it happen when Yorda is turned into a shadow, the dormant magic within these horned people is critical for the ritual. Now, it's clear enough that the Colossi are somewhat unnatural in their biology. You can see the strange motor-like mechanism along Valus' nose in this video, for example. And Dormin was sealed away by mortals, who created these Idols that are bound to the Colossi. Regardless of their fur and otherwise natural looking bodies, there is certainly a semblance of construction to these beasts, so I find it likely that the weak points were also by mortal design. If the colossi just naturally had these shining weaknesses that their creators didn't intend, you'd think they might've tried to cover it more, like the little Colossi do with their armor. And I doubt they were short of materials to cover those spots, considering how many colossi have armor in pretty much every spot except their weak points. So the pattern was likely being intentionally placed for the purpose Wander uses. They installed a means to destroy these creatures, making it not easy, but certainly not impossible, for the one who wields the Ancient Sword, that will reveal the weaknesses. I don't think the sigil serves a function beyond showing Wander where to strike. If it is meant to serve a secondary purpose as, for instance, a ward against Dark Magic, it really fails to protect Wander from the shadowy tendrils at all. And it also fails to protect Ico for that matter, as he can be turned to stone by The Queen's Dark Magic. Anyway, with this usage on the Colossi, perhaps the association changes. Maybe the cloaks don't serve as a sign of the working class community in this place and time. And the horned figure present in the pattern is seen differently by the surrounding culture. Perhaps because of the situation with Dormin, it becomes a reminder and a warning. "Do not forget what we accomplished in sealing this evil." It does seem like a feat worth remembering and fearing, enough for near everyone in a tribe to be wearing it in some form. These are just various thoughts and guesses, of course. I don't 100% back these statements.
@@Mystic_Ode After already writing a comment with my own weak theory on the 2 games connecting, and then reading this, I have to say, I really like your point here. Very refreshing to see Ico being treated like a standalone game. And I will try to view it more and more from this perspective going forward.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Additional Note about the Sofa Texture:
bsky.app/profile/mysticode.bsky.social/post/3l7c575ivid2a
I’ve always thought about how ico was made before and wondered what the original plans were like fleshing it out, before the lore of shadow of the colossus came into effect, what was the village he came from like, what about his parents etc
Looking forward to your investigations about that E3 demo from 2000. Lovely video.
2:24 the door being worn out inside but not outside is a great detail.
@@Lalatellevizion It is interesting, actually. Because when you start the game, we can see the doors are left wide open, it’s just the bridge that’s retracted. And remains open by default when Ico and Yorda first try to escape. If the doors were really open all the time, both parts of the gate’s latch should be equally worn away by the elements. It makes me wonder if the gates stay closed most of the time, but open for a specific occasion. Maybe as a signal to bring in a sacrifice?
It's so hard when there's soooo many questions and no actual answers T_T But at least we have people like you and nomad to document all this! Thank you for your hard work :)
Also Yorda looks so cute in that demo with her little shawl!
I think that perhaps, if we assume that Ico and SoTC are happening in the same timeline, that pattern could be linked to some kind of prophecy. Emon already seems to have extensive knowledge on Dormin, his people may know the curse that the forbidden spell would bring on them. Maybe Wander's actions were destined to happen, so that Ico's plot could take place hundreds or thousands of years later.
Not the best theory, but perhaps some weak links can be made.
As always, thank you for these comprehensive deep dives on Ueda's work, this one was top-notch.
Lord bless you! 🙏🙏
Yorda has the same Ico's cloak in the beta version! That's combined so much!
Great video! I'm looking forward to more like this. Keep up the good worK!
@samucp1688 Thanks so much!
8:16 i know i've already commented in this video but i always thought ico, the queen and yorda all shared some kind of magic. Like they're all pieces from the same puzzle.
@@Lalatellevizion Ico is certainly capable of supernatural feats, particularly in athletic ability and general durability. I believe there is magic inside of him and the other horned children that were sacrificed. But unlike Yorda and the Queen, he has no means to utilize magic beyond his passive strength. That internal magic may still may be affecting these switches. But it seems just as likely, given their size, that they either require multiple people to stand on them, or at least expect that to be common.
2:38 BEFORE I CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS: With that in mind, Is there a possibility that the Master of the Valley, from The Last Guardian, may have a similar pattern? I mean, sure, its still different, but still I checked on wiki and there was some, if my eyes aren't betraying me
I also didn't believe that TLG was in the same universe nor has any directly relation to Dormin. I mean, sure, they share the same use of color cyan, horns, beasts and etc, yet it was just a part of GenDESIGN's(former team ico) identity at this point. Now I need to see the theories, but not only I returned to these games with new eyes, I also kinda opened my eyes to this and believe that yes, it is.
They could be in the same universe, however either as a different deity that may or may not share the same origin or "blood" with Dormin. They may be like most of polytheist phantheons from real life? Or could even have something similar to what the main villain(The Devil) of Dunmeshi is, like all distinct deities are the same or part of one big god. After all, Its not like Dormin would be the only Deity of this world at this point.
No secret message this time?
Really though, I'm glad this video exists to document all the times the Ico pattern is used through the game. Great structure and editing by the way
@@masterknuckles1888 Thanks so much! Also I will confirm there was a message, but it was just a little silly. Idk if it would be worth scrubbing the video for.
i was thinking the pattern in ico glows in presence of yorda or sunlight
And also in presence of sunlight in sotc (through the sword) , so there is no point in saying they have different meanings. Then u literally said u dont agree with me at 14:43 😭. Anyways why do you think they have a different significance? I wouldve loved to see you use the pattern to try to link the two games together more and give your theory because i dont think anyone has done that
@@yashveersingh6633 My comment there was in anticipation of people who believe Shadow of the Colossus enforces a retroactive continuity (retcon) that *should always* change the understanding of ICO. That is what I disagree with. For example, people don’t try to ponder the myriad reasons why the horned children exist anymore, because everyone has played Shadow of the Colossus and then agrees the only reason must be: Wander began the lineage of horned children. I think people are allowed to have that theory, but it shouldn’t be the default.
Because tying these games together was not always the plan. The Sigil wasn’t used on the Colossi until around the time that The Spider colossus was designed. And you try telling me how Dormin, Emon, and Mono are supposed to fit into the original NICO multiplayer concept.
The connections we find now are merely the result of Ueda deciding years later that he could form loose ties to his first work in an interesting way. The ties he makes back to ICO in SotC are inevitably influenced by SotC’s themes and its narrative, it is an add-on.
But now, due in part to Shadow’s popularity within the Team ICO fan community, few are willing to accept a discussion of ICO’s lore that does not involve Shadow of the Colossus. Within the community that’s been formed, the game is not allowed to stand on its own. Bring up The Queen and someone else will bring up Dormin. And that’s very frustrating to me. Because I do like Shadow of the Colossus, but imagine if every time you wanted to talk about the Colossi and their potential origins, people asked why you didn’t mention Trico and implied that you’re being weird for not examining Shadow of the Colossus alongside The Last Guardian.
In this case, of course, I did bring up SotC in my video’s discussion. But that was partly because I felt a pressure to do so. After all, if I hadn’t brought it up, how much of the comments’ section would be dominated by people mentioning the connection? This is why I ended up including it with the emphasis on conversation (compare and contrast) rather than deliberate connection.
I want ICO to be analyzed independently, to stand on its own merits. Have conversations with the other games, but not be defined by their lore. If it needs Shadow of the Colossus to be a complete story, then ICO has no identity of its own.
(I apologize if this comment felt heated. Your message was very kindly formatted and I appreciate that. If it felt like I was lashing out at you at any point, that was never my intent, but I’ve scanned this over a few times and don’t know to word any of this differently. I feel very strongly about this topic.)
@@Mystic_Ode though you think differently about this game than others ( everyone likes to relate the two games because of the similarities and make theories) I understand you. However would you like to relate the two games if ico was considered the prequel( that's how I perceive the two games) because then you wouldn't need sotc to explain icos story.
@@yashveersingh6633 I suppose if the additions SotC made to the lore were chronological, I would be more at ease connecting them. But I think the distance of time and space was very intentional. It feels like two episodes in an anthology.
To give you my best answer, I'd probably frame it like this: The Pattern has a mystical quality, somewhat tied to the nature of the world's magic. At some point, humans discovered this facet of the world and used it for different purposes. They learned that it is something of an anchor for reflected sunlight and that they could convert that sunlight into a source of Light Magic with the proper technology. After this discovery, it was widely adopted as a symbol to distinguish one as part of a culture, specifically a culture of workers, architects, and the like.
But this natural symbol of their world also references horned figures in its structure, and this works well for ICO's narrative in the sense that the horned children are literally being used by The Queen for the Light Magic they produce after being placed in their capsules. We see it happen when Yorda is turned into a shadow, the dormant magic within these horned people is critical for the ritual.
Now, it's clear enough that the Colossi are somewhat unnatural in their biology. You can see the strange motor-like mechanism along Valus' nose in this video, for example. And Dormin was sealed away by mortals, who created these Idols that are bound to the Colossi. Regardless of their fur and otherwise natural looking bodies, there is certainly a semblance of construction to these beasts, so I find it likely that the weak points were also by mortal design. If the colossi just naturally had these shining weaknesses that their creators didn't intend, you'd think they might've tried to cover it more, like the little Colossi do with their armor. And I doubt they were short of materials to cover those spots, considering how many colossi have armor in pretty much every spot except their weak points.
So the pattern was likely being intentionally placed for the purpose Wander uses. They installed a means to destroy these creatures, making it not easy, but certainly not impossible, for the one who wields the Ancient Sword, that will reveal the weaknesses.
I don't think the sigil serves a function beyond showing Wander where to strike. If it is meant to serve a secondary purpose as, for instance, a ward against Dark Magic, it really fails to protect Wander from the shadowy tendrils at all. And it also fails to protect Ico for that matter, as he can be turned to stone by The Queen's Dark Magic.
Anyway, with this usage on the Colossi, perhaps the association changes. Maybe the cloaks don't serve as a sign of the working class community in this place and time. And the horned figure present in the pattern is seen differently by the surrounding culture.
Perhaps because of the situation with Dormin, it becomes a reminder and a warning. "Do not forget what we accomplished in sealing this evil." It does seem like a feat worth remembering and fearing, enough for near everyone in a tribe to be wearing it in some form.
These are just various thoughts and guesses, of course. I don't 100% back these statements.
@@Mystic_Ode After already writing a comment with my own weak theory on the 2 games connecting, and then reading this, I have to say, I really like your point here. Very refreshing to see Ico being treated like a standalone game. And I will try to view it more and more from this perspective going forward.