When a person is not learning any more, they are dead (in essence). Our "Mr Pete" will be learning as long as he lives. This is why so many of us love him.
I believe the two ridges are on the original to act as reinforcement to prevent springing apart should someone over tighten the bracket. They have a similar effect as thicker metal. If they were to act as a stop they would not have rounded ramped ends on them as this would serve to ride up on the ridges as you mentioned someone had done pointing out that the paint was worn off in the beginning of your video. Keep up the good work. As we say in the trade (education) it appears you have 1000’s of teachable moments out there judging by the number of your subscribers.
For those who have the capability to either Silver Solder or Braze. Both of these methods should give you more than enough strength, for the purpose intended. Great Project video series.
The first C-clamp that you cut into is made of ductile iron. I have several of them in my collection of clamps. I'm not about to sacrifice one of my Cincinnati C-clamps for this project. Those belong to my dad and are a little sentimental to me. The DI one probably would welded just fine with a high nickel rod by first removing the zinc/cadmium coating before welding. Or as others said, do a nice brazing job on it. Regardless, a great learning experience Lyle! And always, thanks for sharing your videos with us who are still learning that thought they knew it all. Always room for learning more in our lives. Ken
I graduated high school in 1994. This is one of the last years you could get a true industrial arts focused education at the local high school. sad they cancelled it all and narrowed it down to one class called shop! we used to be able to get drafting I & II wood shop I & II Metal Shop I & II, then go to skill center for two more years with great education. anyway I wish i would have taken all that and I am so sad it is now gone. I wish you were my shop teacher you could have inspired me like you do now!
You have a great channel! Thanks for sharing your experience. In case no one else mentioned it, I'd be tempted to use the original clamp you had in mind, grinding the sides flat to accommodate the pieces of angle iron (or a little heavier) you used to support the smaller clamp, drilling into the side of the clamp to secure it.....no need to weld.
Good luck with welding cast iron to mild steel. Success depend a lot on the type and quality of the cast iron. The right rod (like nickel) preheating, and slow cooling gives you a chance. Brazing often give better results. Keep up the good work Lyle.
Thanks teach, like others said brazing would have probably worked. But to much clamp pressure may have broken the braze . Im sure a couple of steel pieces welded with a coupling nut would do very nicely.
How about a cast iron welding rod. One we used to use was called”Castolin” I think. That should join the two dis-similar metals nicely. Oh I forgot that most home shop guys can’t use a stick since Mig is so easy and popular these days.
Harbor freight used to sell folded steel c-clamps like the original AMF clamp - don't know if they still do, but you can probably find similar on Amazon or eBay. They are much easier to get a good weld on with a hobby grade wire feed welder than forged, and AMF obviously thought that was strong enough.
You could easily make a clamp and use a coupling nut for the wider threaded portion. No worries about cast iron clamps or having to use material thick enough to drill and tap. Simple 🤷🏻♂️
My 2 cent advice would be to put that big nut on the bottom of the plate and run a bolt through that hole to align the threads then weld the nut on. that will triple the length of thread contact.
we weld cast iron at work all the time and have for years with no issues, we preheat to 650 deg and weld it with in most case's allstate 44 rods, or anything with a high nickel content, now I am sure maybe you can't weld all cast steel but I have found very little that I couldn't weld.I have had a couple things that I referred to as chineesium that I could not weld.
when you would pre heat the cast iron before welding it it should work just fine, the problem is that the stress in cast iron bedcomes to big when you try to weld it when the iron is to cold. regards
It could be a type of cast steel. During the war, the Saginaw Mallable Iron Plant of General Motors invented a type of cast steel for production of the 1919A4 machine guns. It greatly increased production of critical parts that had been previously forged than machined to size. Armasteel was the name I believe.
I wonder if a brazed joint would be strong enough to hold the clamp? A good brazed joint is comparable to cast iron and it would bond to different materials better than welding. I have always felt that a good braze is better than a bad weld.
Funny how those steel C clamps endear themselves. Out of maybe 5 dozen C lamps I have just one of those small Cincinnati C clamps and it is always preferred.
Oh the horror! Those little forged clamps are the bee's knees. I first saw them when working as the "pattern boy" in an active patternworks in 1981. I don't ever count mine (#notahoarder) but there are "a few". farm3.staticflickr.com/2897/14449796890_7efb0bf26b_c.jpg
I would have assumed that the stamped ridges on the sides of the flat plate are meant to stiffen the plate and help prevent it from bending, rather than your explanation of helping to locate the clamp.
Often, when optimising a product, a designer will try to kill as many birds as possible with one stone, this can serve as a stiffener and a locator, the goal is to reduce the steps to a minimum in order to get the most efficiency and lower the cost of production. In manufacturing as opposed to hobby practices, every second is counted. 😰🤑👍
@Barry Manilowa Brazing rod is common in 60,000 psi. roughly equivalent to 6010 arc welding rod. A properly done braze joint would work very well in this application.
@@christurley391 yep brazing is stronger than people give it credit for ! I did thousands of pull tests on brazed joints .the brazers would bet on who would have the strongest joint test.
@Barry Manilowa it depends on the brazing material. with Din 8513 L-Cu Ni10 Zn42, for example , the brazing joint should have a tensile strength of more than 690 N/mm² or 100,076 psi . and ductile castiron is around 60,000 psi .
Probably could TIG braze it. That works for dissimilar metals. A few cast parts that I've welded snapped the tack welds as they heated up. It makes a high-pitched ping when the weld breaks. But silicon bronze TIG brazing might work.
This is a little late to the comments, but I end up welding all sorts of pot metal, and what would be considered “non weldable” material, and I’ve found that you usually get an decent weld in most materials. I mean use common sense, and don’t weld a cast iron clamp to hold a ultralight seat to the wing... lol I’ve had really good luck with 6011 stick rods on a lot of metals I really shouldn’t have good luck welding
the yellow one I make them to weld to pull or push the plant steel to make to flush with and another plant or working on big tanks weld them on can move the pipe witch direction you want it to go and old welding shown me them track
My thought as well. One problem is that starting with HRS or CRS plate and milling off one surface would probably cause the remaining metal to warp from the stresses left over from rolling. On the other hand if the piece is a slab cut from the end of a large rectangular cross-section this should work fine.
Doesn't look like it would be too hard to fabricate the C-clamp part you need here; a couple pieces of bar stock and some more all-thread. But then you would be fabricating a clamp for your fabricated clamp...Getting kind of redundant...
The rim on a drill press table is generally not square to the surface of the table. On mine, the rim is actually tapered (probably from the pattern draft required for casting) so it doesn't hold clamps securely at all.
When a person is not learning any more, they are dead (in essence). Our "Mr Pete" will be learning as long as he lives. This is why so many of us love him.
I believe the two ridges are on the original to act as reinforcement to prevent springing apart should someone over tighten the bracket. They have a similar effect as thicker metal. If they were to act as a stop they would not have rounded ramped ends on them as this would serve to ride up on the ridges as you mentioned someone had done pointing out that the paint was worn off in the beginning of your video. Keep up the good work. As we say in the trade (education) it appears you have 1000’s of teachable moments out there judging by the number of your subscribers.
37yearsofanything isenough
I agree. They act like a truss but at the same time the original was just a stamped part.
Post welding, if you heat the area to red almost molten with a torch and allow it to cool it will be much stronger.
Thanks lyle. Brazing would be good for those cast clamps. Turned out nice.
For those who have the capability to either Silver Solder or Braze. Both of these methods should give you more than enough strength, for the purpose intended. Great Project video series.
A great project series. Every step has been interesting. If one cut/broken/lost finger is saved, the series will have been worth it.
Coming along nicely, thanks Mr. Pete!
The first C-clamp that you cut into is made of ductile iron. I have several of them in my collection of clamps. I'm not about to sacrifice one of my Cincinnati C-clamps for this project. Those belong to my dad and are a little sentimental to me. The DI one probably would welded just fine with a high nickel rod by first removing the zinc/cadmium coating before welding. Or as others said, do a nice brazing job on it. Regardless, a great learning experience Lyle! And always, thanks for sharing your videos with us who are still learning that thought they knew it all. Always room for learning more in our lives. Ken
I graduated high school in 1994. This is one of the last years you could get a true industrial arts focused education at the local high school. sad they cancelled it all and narrowed it down to one class called shop! we used to be able to get drafting I & II wood shop I & II Metal Shop I & II, then go to skill center for two more years with great education. anyway I wish i would have taken all that and I am so sad it is now gone. I wish you were my shop teacher you could have inspired me like you do now!
😂
You have a great channel! Thanks for sharing your experience. In case no one else mentioned it, I'd be tempted to use the original clamp you had in mind, grinding the sides flat to accommodate the pieces of angle iron (or a little heavier) you used to support the smaller clamp, drilling into the side of the clamp to secure it.....no need to weld.
Thanks
Greatly enjoying the series Mr. Pete! I really enjoy the vintage safety posters you use in your intro.
Thanks
Good luck with welding cast iron to mild steel. Success depend a lot on the type and quality of the cast iron. The right rod (like nickel) preheating, and slow cooling gives you a chance. Brazing often give better results. Keep up the good work Lyle.
Loving every minute of it. Thanks for the video.
Great project series. I enjoyed each video and appreciated your tips and words of wisdom. Take care.
This is added to my list of projects for my shop. Great series!
👍
Sure a great project. Good choice with the steel clamp. Enjoyed.
Use the t slots to clamp it on the table on the delta
good video Mr Pete I have in the past welded cast iron using either cast iron rods or stainless rods still you got there in the end !
Thanks teach, like others said brazing would have probably worked. But to much clamp pressure may have broken the braze . Im sure a couple of steel pieces welded with a coupling nut would do very nicely.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Very much enjoyed.
How about a cast iron welding rod.
One we used to use was called”Castolin” I think.
That should join the two dis-similar metals nicely.
Oh I forgot that most home shop guys can’t use a stick since Mig is so easy and popular these days.
Thank You Mr Pete good video.
Lovely build
Thank you for sharing.
Another installment to a great series!
Harbor freight used to sell folded steel c-clamps like the original AMF clamp - don't know if they still do, but you can probably find similar on Amazon or eBay. They are much easier to get a good weld on with a hobby grade wire feed welder than forged, and AMF obviously thought that was strong enough.
Excellent work, just a thought, next time do a spark test with the bench grinder to check material type?
Hello Mr Pete,
I have been enjoying this series thank you.
How about using a T nut and clamping through one of the existing slots on your table?
You could easily make a clamp and use a coupling nut for the wider threaded portion.
No worries about cast iron clamps or having to use material thick enough to drill and tap.
Simple 🤷🏻♂️
My 2 cent advice would be to put that big nut on the bottom of the plate and run a bolt through that hole to align the threads then weld the nut on. that will triple the length of thread contact.
we weld cast iron at work all the time and have for years with no issues, we preheat to 650 deg and weld it with in most case's allstate 44 rods, or anything with a high nickel content, now I am sure maybe you can't weld all cast steel but I have found very little that I couldn't weld.I have had a couple things that I referred to as chineesium that I could not weld.
👍👍🇺🇸
when you would pre heat the cast iron before welding it it should work just fine, the problem is that the stress in cast iron bedcomes to big when you try to weld it when the iron is to cold. regards
I don't know anything about welding. But I do know you put out quality video's.
It could be a type of cast steel. During the war, the Saginaw Mallable Iron Plant of General Motors invented a type of cast steel for production of the 1919A4 machine guns. It greatly increased production of critical parts that had been previously forged than machined to size. Armasteel was the name I believe.
👍👍
Could you have tested the clamp with the grinder? I think you can see whether iron or steel from looking at the sparks.
I wonder if a brazed joint would be strong enough to hold the clamp? A good brazed joint is comparable to cast iron and it would bond to different materials better than welding. I have always felt that a good braze is better than a bad weld.
Great video Lyle. Cheers
Beautiful work as usual Mr Pete!!! What is the clamp that's on the column of the drill press for?
Thanks for another stellar video!! How about Brazing?
Way to go Mr. Pete.
Funny how those steel C clamps endear themselves. Out of maybe 5 dozen C lamps I have just one of those small Cincinnati C clamps and it is always preferred.
I agree. In fact, I already made a video on sea clamps, but it is not released yet.
Don't have a welder myself, so would have brazed or silver-soldered the iron clamp with my Mapp gas torch.
Oh the horror! Those little forged clamps are the bee's knees. I first saw them when working as the "pattern boy" in an active patternworks in 1981. I don't ever count mine (#notahoarder) but there are "a few".
farm3.staticflickr.com/2897/14449796890_7efb0bf26b_c.jpg
I would have assumed that the stamped ridges on the sides of the flat plate are meant to stiffen the plate and help prevent it from bending, rather than your explanation of helping to locate the clamp.
I had the same thought.
Often, when optimising a product, a designer will try to kill as many birds as possible with one stone, this can serve as a stiffener and a locator, the goal is to reduce the steps to a minimum in order to get the most efficiency and lower the cost of production. In manufacturing as opposed to hobby practices, every second is counted. 😰🤑👍
Yes
Just the job for my drilling plate - cheers P
Maybe test weld on the top of the clamps until you get lucky. It can always be ground off the bad ones..
That steel super jr clamp is still sold today but under the Wilton name. However I do not believe they are made in USA anymore.
If I remember correctly, we used to use nickel rod for welding cast iron. :)
I was expecting you to whack that test weld with those linesman pliers that were lying beside it. That's what I would have done :-).
Your iron clamp would be serviceable if you brazed it to the plate.
@Barry Manilowa Brazing rod is common in 60,000 psi. roughly equivalent to 6010 arc welding rod. A properly done braze joint would work very well in this application.
@@christurley391 yep brazing is stronger than people give it credit for ! I did thousands of pull tests on brazed joints .the brazers would bet on who would have the strongest joint test.
@Barry Manilowa it depends on the brazing material.
with Din 8513 L-Cu Ni10 Zn42, for example , the brazing joint should have a tensile strength of more than 690 N/mm² or 100,076 psi .
and ductile castiron is around 60,000 psi .
That's what I thought too.
Probably could TIG braze it. That works for dissimilar metals. A few cast parts that I've welded snapped the tack welds as they heated up. It makes a high-pitched ping when the weld breaks. But silicon bronze TIG brazing might work.
This is a little late to the comments, but I end up welding all sorts of pot metal, and what would be considered “non weldable” material, and I’ve found that you usually get an decent weld in most materials. I mean use common sense, and don’t weld a cast iron clamp to hold a ultralight seat to the wing... lol I’ve had really good luck with 6011 stick rods on a lot of metals I really shouldn’t have good luck welding
👍👍
the yellow one I make them to weld to pull or push the plant steel to make to flush with and another plant or working on big tanks weld them on can move the pipe witch direction you want it to go and old welding shown me them track
use a coupling nut for a ready rod and tig the part on to the jig
I guess you could get your local blacksmith to "smith" one of those clamps.
Why not use a nickel rod (for cast iron welding) to fix the mild steel to the cheap clamp. Would have worked just fine....
McMaster.com sells arc and tig welding electrodes for joining cast iron to steel and stainless steel.
Harbor Freight C-clamps weld with no trouble at all.
👍
Braze the cast iron. Welding rod for cast to steel is available also.
why not use a thicker piece of plate and milling a step for the clamping surface? Then you'd also have your stops right away
My thought as well. One problem is that starting with HRS or CRS plate and milling off one surface would probably cause the remaining metal to warp from the stresses left over from rolling. On the other hand if the piece is a slab cut from the end of a large rectangular cross-section this should work fine.
@@kevinmartin7760 I don't think it would warp that much tho. It will get bent a little by the clamping pressure anyway.
Doesn't look like it would be too hard to fabricate the C-clamp part you need here; a couple pieces of bar stock and some more all-thread. But then you would be fabricating a clamp for your fabricated clamp...Getting kind of redundant...
That Cinncy C clamp was sacrificed for a good cause.
Um, couldn't you have just used the C-clamp to hold a piece of angle iron with a hole in it to the rim of the table?
The rim on a drill press table is generally not square to the surface of the table. On mine, the rim is actually tapered (probably from the pattern draft required for casting) so it doesn't hold clamps securely at all.
You can easily find a used steel clamp on EBay.
Echo the earlier brazing comments.
Hehehehehehehe
A great project series. Every step has been interesting. If one cut/broken/lost finger is saved, the series will have been worth it.