You could never break my heart :) You gave it a chance, and it didn’t work for you. Perfectly fair! You also gain more insights from being able to play it regularly, which likely highlights problem areas more dramatically than someone who plays only once in awhile. Enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
I totally see where you are coming from but I LOVE the expansion. I found that nobody went overboard on intrigue because of getting targeted on the space for having to many. I found the dreadnaughts were fairly easy to get and pretty much everyone gets them because once you have 2, you don’t need to go there any more, and found the power balances since if you win, one goes away for a round. Usually it’s only late game in the base game that anyone controls with the flags so I liked that it made areas controlled more. Since spice is hard to get, especially in a 4 player game, I found that tech tiles don’t get bought a ton, especially if there’s any expensive ones. I like that it mitigates that by allowing a couple discount spots. However, being low on workers makes you not always wanna do those. I love the added cards, and never found them to crazy. And with 4 players the market is always changing. While some are pretty powerful you still have to place a worker where you want to use it and you may not always wanna go to those spots. For me, it all still felt balanced. I find that since scores are always tight in the end, it must be balanced otherwise there would be a huge scoring shift. That’s me though, everyone’s experiences and opinions are different and I liked seeing your side. For me intrigue cards are the only thing I don’t like overall. I just wish there were no intrigue cards. I know it sounds boring but I feel like that’s the only true randomness I don’t like. You could play perfectly and be ahead, and someone has the intrigue cards that get them a zillion points. I think intrigue cards just shouldn’t have points and then it would be the perfect game for me
When I play with my group it's very rare someone gets more than 3 intrigue cards because as soon as they have 4 they are targeted by the secrets space (getting one stolen).
Agree that that space helps slow down craziness! We found that we could play around that by disposing of intrigue cards to get to 3 cards before someone got to that space. Plus, since intrigue cards were swingy anyways, having 3 was still a big deal! Cheers! -Ashton
I have no idea how I've never come across this channel until now. I've been watching boardgaming channels for a few years now. It's crazy! The algorithm has completely failed me! Fantastic channel! I'm already binging the back catalog. Keep up the great work!
It really sounds like you guys wanted to love this expansion, given your enjoyment of the base game, so it's sad to hear how much of a disappointment Ix was. Do you think that with some heavy houseruling it can be made an improvement on the base game, or is it just too complex to balance?
I agree with all the cons mentioned in the game. The same gripes I had with the base game of randomness with luck in the intrigue deck was worsened with the addition of even more cards. Of course the tech tiles and the imperium deck have the same issues. Although it may not be a popular opinion, and goes against what the designer intended, I think the addition of some minor house rules can make the experience enjoyable. ie) Our house rules: 1. Draw 2 intrigue cards and pick 1, and place the other at the bottom of the deck. 2. Whoever chooses their leader/character first goes last in turn order. (This gives Heighliner prio to starting players at turn 8)
I enjoyed this review! I wanted to share with you my experience with Dune. I've had DI since it came out and I picked up the expansions along the way, but I didn't really play them much. I didn't even play the base Dune much, surprisingly. It was just okay for me, but I really wanted to like it more. So I had to address my problems with the game: RNG (as you call it) and combat. The randomness was mitigated by creating a six card market where the deck was subdivided by cost: 1 persuasion cards, 2, 3 . . . and 6+ persuasion cards. The combat bugged me the most. Reminded me of Scythe where combat didn't feel like combat at all. I took a cue from 1960: The Making of the President where cubes enter the bag and are drawn one at a time until two cubes of the same colour come out to determine winner. Repeat to determine second place. So cubes in combat go into the bag, but the swords "strengthen" the cubes where 2 swords = 1 cube. Before combat begins, players can upgrade their army by converting swords into cubes (this is done secretly and simultaneously). Anyway, these changes made me love Dune: Imperium and Uprising as well.
The whole "whoever gets Heighliner" gives tension to turn order interaction which is absolute for interaction, however winning is NOT the most important thing, its about getting a good exchange for resources used, see it "like" taking serve at tennis, yes you're supossed to win on your serve (when turn order favours you) but its the breaks that is important... let them take the heighlenier, LET them believe youre going to toast them by taking mentat and bury them in intrigue cards and then don't do it so their exchange is bad. There's definitely a wheel within wheels and timing element that doesn't mean it's reduced to heighlener wins. Investing in intrigue and deck crafting can definitely provide a good enough counter.
I only played this once so my impressions aren't as developed as yours, but I wasn't surprised. The expansion felt it took the focus away from the conflict and turned into a more solitaire euro with everyone grabbing points in their own little way. Double downing on the intrigue cards was also really silly. The element of surprise should come from the conflicts and special actions, not end game bonuses
I actually appreciated having the "crappy worker spots" because it added player interaction and force someone else onto it, thank you for pointing it out. I'll probably stick to the base game.
Dune Imperium has always been about harnessing rng and exploiting opportunities. If the only thing you liked was how on rails the base experience was then I’m sorry for your anguish. The balance is not noticably off to me, it’s always been wacky and now there are no clearly „better” spaces - this is what needed a fix and Ix delivered. Must have expansion.
Hmm interesting criticisms. I have played ten games of base game D:I and I think Intrigue cards have always been swingy and Heighliner has always been powerful as it is on a guild that has a less interesting space than the rest (flexibility versus a specific style of benefit). D:I seems to be, at it's core, a tactical action efficiency game where players race for available VP and to the end trigger of 10 VP while dealing with changing turn order, conflict draw, intrigue draw, and imperium buy row limitations. Ix doesn't seem to increase randomness that much, but rather allow for more avenues of chasing VP or efficiency as that is limited, albiet tighter in the base game. I am basing that on your review alone though as I haven't played it myself so I could be presumptuous. I just still think that randomness was always present in D:I and perhaps you were more okay with that before? Just as in Star Realms, the 5 card buy row dictates what you will find success in, D:I is more complex but you are still figuring out a tactical puzzle of what is worth pursuing given board state at any given time. I think for long term and more static victory conditions, other games might be better though by having more static victory paths, the design has to enable players to interact more. D:I can get away with worker placement and deckbuilding because the game imposes limitations on actions more than the players themselves. Maybe your group has hit the skill ceiling by now and each win feels more random as each game is tighter.
Played twice the expansion so I cant tell if these cons will be game changers for us.... but still understand the impact. We shall see. Thanks a lot for your awesome job
Hey, great review on Dune Imperium's new expansion Rise of IX. I love how you guys break everything down and give your own opinions and thoughts regarding games and expansions. Even though I can't entirely agree with some opinions and think Rise of IX is a great expansion which opens up the Dune universe. I respect your guy's thoughts, and hearing your honest, and genuine opinions on games is why I subscribe to your channel. You guys are excellent keep up the great work, and I look forward to the next review.😄
What are you even talking about guys? Those intrigue cards are the best thing, you never know who 'll pull a crazy win in the end and most of the time they are never drawn, it's not like you draw that many intrigue cards anyway. I had some amazing wins with someone being three points behind, winning combat and having one of these cards. It's not an insta win, you still have to do some planning to get the needed spice/solari or condition needed for each intrigue card. I feel you guys are too into Twilight Imperium and Civilization to appreciate anything smaller scale 😢.
It's kind of a weird thing, where I actually really liked them from base game. But with the expansion, intrigue cards felt like they went overboard in what I could expect. Admittedly, I do still think its a little odd that they give points in a euro. It's definitely something I'm not as concerned about when playing with some groups though! -Ashton
Clearly you guys not only review, you stress test. Wish I woulda watched this before I bought the expansion last year :D Keep up the great work! You guys remind me of Board game version of John Tron XD
cheers! Glad to provide our perspective on this game, I've been thinking about the new announced version, not sure if we'll take a look, still 50/50 on it -Ashton
I completely agree: this is a good example where complexity does not necessarily equate depth. The base game was a bit too straightforward in the early game and in late game certain spaces became useless, however this expansion is too gimmicky and offers so many way arounds and offers extra RNG to the point that it is very difficult to even understand how to interact with what the opponents are doing, which was the whole point of Dune Imperium. I still think this is useful and fun with a non-competitive crowd, as it is more thematic and swingy and actually my wife loves it.
Yeah I totally agree with the non-competitive crowd notion, it seems fun to mess around with everything, but if you're tryharding with expansion the game breaks pretty easily. -Daniel
Thanks for the in-depth review. It looks like your the only ones who didn't like this expansion. Are you still playing Dune imperium ? and if so, do you play it with or without the Rise of Ix expansion ?
If this expansion was modular would it mitigate most of the cons? Like the playgroup curating what gets in the main deck and intrigue cards (from both sets), choice of not playing with tech tiles board (including dreadnoughts) and/or overlay board. (Although it can lead to a problem of the product costing too much if the hivemind finds that you just want around a third of the content and the game is better off without all the other stuff.)
Great question, I think it would definitely help mitigate the randomness/intrigue nonsense cons for sure. Problem comes in with the new cards often times being connected to the new mechanics, like the dreadnought/tech board, or shppinig track. The best solution I can think of right now is to take out some cards from base, like slight redundancies in intrigue abilities (combat ones come to mind), or maybe even just power creeping imperium row cards over all. Also, having 6 cards in imperium row, or churning it is recommended. Hope this helped! -Ashton
Never played this game, so not a fanboy or anything, but going from 5 cards out of 35 that give VP to 8 cards out of 50 is an increased probability of less than 2% that your next card will grant VP. Unlikely to make a noticeable difference to gameplay unless you play A LOT and keep very accurate stats.
My group was also late to the Dune Imperium party, having only started with the base game this January. After one play, I decided that I liked it enough to buy my own copy to play with other groups and solo. Having discovered that a new stand-alone expansion/sequel/update had recently released, I chose Dune Imperium: Uprising over the base game. After playing a bunch of Uprising and then watching this video, I can't help but think that _you_ had an indirect hand in its design. The new sandworm units work the way _you_ suggested dreadnoughts should work, the board spaces have been rebalanced, and combat is a consistent focus that drives interaction and rewards smart decisions. It's almost like the designer watched this video, agreed with the criticisms, and made a new game to address them. I'm very curious to see if Uprising is a hit or miss for your group. Reactions so far are somewhat polarized, but most of the negative reviews are coming from players who loved Rise of Ix, so Uprising may be exactly what you guys want from Dune Imperium.
It brought tons of new life to my game group. We have 10 plays under our belts! This strikes a great balance of Euro and area control dudes on a map for us. I guess everyone has different tastes. This combined with the new expansion is awesome as well!
I’ve enjoyed every game of Ix so far, but I can definitely see your points across the board. I’m curious about the 6 cards or rotating the 5th card each round. The stagnation is real.
We made 2 rows of 4 cards and the 2 right most cards get trashed after every battle phase. That keeps the market full of options and we still only saw 3/4 of the deck in a 4 player game.
In immortality you get the family atomics token which let you renew trash and renew the imperium row. We use this even if we were just playing with rise of ix. It's a much needed aspect in the game because of the row becoming stale.
oh gosh. Yeah I distinctly remember it being at least 45-55 when buying it in February, so I waited for quite some time. Try to get at a discount if you can!!! Good thing is that base game has plenty of replayability via digital integration. -Ashton
The RNG is crazy now, we play with both expansions and the winner of our last game had 17 points! And fights could get up 30 strength. As you said, if you a player didn't build dreadnoughts early then they would waist turns trying to get men to the fight. Now the game feels very formulaic: get a dreadnaught or a seat on the high council as fast as you can when you hit 3 VP get your 2nd agent and always been drawing intrigue cards! Because you know that crazy 3 point card is coming, so best be prepared for it. I would like some new combat cards, maybe there are some online, cause I am tried of the same ones popping up all the time- same with the tec. I am 100% with you about not flipping over a new tec and adding a 6th card to the row. I find myself not paying attention to other players turns cause who cares! I have never played 'just the base' but I would be game for it.
40:42 You said this a few times, but I don't know what it means: RNG. I like your reviews because it's obvious how much thought you put into what you say. You've played the game thoroughly and analyzed the game with your group. Your negative review is the first one I've seen on Ix. I'm still looking forward to getting it. By the way, your encounter card fix in Scythe is genius! Scythe and D:I combat is disappointing to me and I fixed both using a cube tower. Every battle now has drama and some probability of upsets, but it's also less frustrating when you lose.
Heyo! RNG stands for "Random Number Generator", which we just use as slang for randomness! Glad to hear the encounter card fix for Scyhte helped ya :D -Ashton
if they had added a sticker to the Hall of Oratory letting you discard and replace the cards in the market too that would have been enough. Also making 1 VP every 12 Solari made would have made spice harvesting and Sell Melange action key factors remaining more adherent to the lore and without extra boards and stuff that only takew away from the game by ironically adding more stuff. Dreadnoughts? Not even going there.
I think there is a lot of opinion without math going on in this review. Web of Power has weak benefits until later in the game when you can activate two or more of these. Given that you only cycle through your deck a few times, it may be a bit of a waste to not pick a different card with a more immediate payout. Conversely, if you lean heavy into factions, it’s reveal will eventually become a bit pointless.
I don't agree with you on this. This expansion open up more possibility to do interesting things. For example, the Sell Melange space where you trade your spice for solari made the game run around this single space for getting solari. The CHOAM track instead demand more long term investment to get solari and makes the Foldspace attractive. It also makes the space Conspire a good way to obtain Solari which was previously a bad space to go. So now the board got 2 previously bad board space been interesting places to visit and fight for. Also, about Prophecy of Kings. I personally don't find this expansion so great outside of the new factions. 1. The Mech render Infantry for the most part obsolete thus making all the factions based around Infantry worst then they were in the base game. 2. The exploration introduce more randomness in a 6-8 hours game experience which is not what I consider a great addition. 3. I like the leaders but for the most part they made the game more imbalanced. Some of the already best faction received strong leaders and some of the weak factions got bad ones.
Spy satellites are a huge NO NO. Lore wise Fremen blackmail the guild to put such a monstrous cost for satellite spy on >dune not even the >emperor can afford one orbiting Arrakis.
I was intrigued by this review .. and then played the game with Rise of Ix some more. And then with both Ix and Immortality. Verdict? Base game + Rise of Ix is the best iteration of the game. I would never go back to playing base game only, it's just too linear in comparison. I consider D:I + Rise of Ix the new base game. Immortality on the other hand suffers from being a bit too much at the moment (around 20 games played). Perhaps I will get tired of Rise of Ix only and it will get into the rotation but I'm quite happy with Rise of Ix. The BGG score is not a fluke, it's just an amazing expansion. Sorry it didn't work for you guys.
@@Shelfside yep, staying vanilla because of your review for the time being. Considering the component upgrade expansion, but it is pricey for what one gets.
I don't believe one of your statements is correct. Fighting in the central conflict is ONE way to win. Rise of ix opens up alternate strategies. It becomes a better game as now it becomes less about just fighting and more about using alternate win conditions and political manouvering. Now if your opinion is you prefer a game where everyone is just focused on doing one thing, then sure.
The intro made me die lmao! I hope you guys can cover the new expansion (Immortality) coming out soon 😄 Great review too. Imo, Rise of IX is a great addition to the base game
Theres been alot of positive buzz about the expansion but damn, Sounds like they need to reevalute the problems with the game to bring it back to a tighter and more balanced experience good thorough review
Great Review again. It´s really difficult to get into board games if you are completely new to it. All those 834700234 channels on UA-cam are advicing pretty differnt. You on the other hand have such good arguments and a way of thinking through the game, that I startet to just trust you guys and go for it. Thank you! Btw. it would be great to see what you say about space classics: Cosmic Encounter and Race for the Galaxy. Especially RftG seems to be still just the better version of what Terraforming mars, Wingspan etc. try to get into a game. Cosmic encounter seems to be unbeatable as a stupid fun game. But I never played them (RftG arrives tomorrow).
awesome! Yeah will completely agree that getting started on board games is really quite daunting. You can get all hyped up about a game, struggle to read the rules, and then realize too late its not a game for you (or your group!). I would want to do a review on Cosmic for sure at some point, because it has such a zany way of approaching politics! Cheers! -Ashton
16:06 rng = random number generator. Not randomness. RNG refers to the system a computer uses to simulate randomness. So it only makes sense to use the acronym RNG if youre talking about luck manipulation in a videogame.
It’s the designer of Clank and you wanted less RNG? Lol. The funny thing about randomness, it’s the same for everyone. With enough plays the luck passes through you and only the best player remains 😘
Bro acts like he's a genius because he and his group discovered that heighliner exists and believes he can analyze gamestates in a blink of eye when I doubt he actually knows what's going on. As someone involved in the tts DI ix/immo community and has logged hundreds of games with ix, I kind of just cringed at this entire review. Also, there is RNG in the game, but a good player knows to best control the RNG to their abilities (i.e. when to induce reshuffles, when to play intrigues, etc.). Lastly, I'll just say that y'alls snobby, "better than thou" demeanors are just everything wrong with the board game hobby and why people often feel gatekept from joining in.
I agree, I don't think that the points raised in the video are valid criticisms of it's design. Spice becomes more important because it can be used to buy technologies now, having 2 dreadnoughts puts the starting combat strength at 6, meaning that the value of the 10 strength from the highliner diminishes. The core design of the conflicts is still that it's very difficult to win a conflict 2 turns in a row, the highliner following these rules. The intrigue cards where always a key part of the game and the whole argument that adding more in this expansion somehow makes them worse is also not that well explained. I am not really sure about the snobby aspect. In my experience, most board gamers are super chill and inviting people, it's usually those on the outside of the hobby that struggle with their demeanors to get into the hobby, because they will not be invited for games if they piss people off.
Ok. So you didn't like the classic Dune boardgame, which is a masterpiece, but then don't like Rise of Ix because.. too "random" (the opposite of old dune, and actually much more similar to the type of randomness found in ti4). Have you ever played a COIN game? it is time you do. no, listen, seriously, do it.
we could definitely take them out, but as Meathir said, we do like to review the game as written! Perhaps some houseruling is in order though :) -Ashton
You could never break my heart :) You gave it a chance, and it didn’t work for you. Perfectly fair! You also gain more insights from being able to play it regularly, which likely highlights problem areas more dramatically than someone who plays only once in awhile. Enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
Rodney you are an exemplar of Internet comment etiquette and you inspire me to be kinder online ❤
The man is an international treasure!!!
@@Zalintis
wake up babe, shelfside posted
I totally see where you are coming from but I LOVE the expansion. I found that nobody went overboard on intrigue because of getting targeted on the space for having to many.
I found the dreadnaughts were fairly easy to get and pretty much everyone gets them because once you have 2, you don’t need to go there any more, and found the power balances since if you win, one goes away for a round. Usually it’s only late game in the base game that anyone controls with the flags so I liked that it made areas controlled more.
Since spice is hard to get, especially in a 4 player game, I found that tech tiles don’t get bought a ton, especially if there’s any expensive ones. I like that it mitigates that by allowing a couple discount spots. However, being low on workers makes you not always wanna do those.
I love the added cards, and never found them to crazy. And with 4 players the market is always changing. While some are pretty powerful you still have to place a worker where you want to use it and you may not always wanna go to those spots.
For me, it all still felt balanced. I find that since scores are always tight in the end, it must be balanced otherwise there would be a huge scoring shift.
That’s me though, everyone’s experiences and opinions are different and I liked seeing your side.
For me intrigue cards are the only thing I don’t like overall. I just wish there were no intrigue cards. I know it sounds boring but I feel like that’s the only true randomness I don’t like. You could play perfectly and be ahead, and someone has the intrigue cards that get them a zillion points. I think intrigue cards just shouldn’t have points and then it would be the perfect game for me
Yeah, I just take out the intrigue cards that have points on them. Didn't miss them at all.
@@primusinterpares5767 good idea. I may do the same
When I play with my group it's very rare someone gets more than 3 intrigue cards because as soon as they have 4 they are targeted by the secrets space (getting one stolen).
I agree with that
Agree that that space helps slow down craziness! We found that we could play around that by disposing of intrigue cards to get to 3 cards before someone got to that space. Plus, since intrigue cards were swingy anyways, having 3 was still a big deal! Cheers! -Ashton
@@Shelfside It's not for everyone. Thanks for the honest review
I really appreciate how you guys get into specific strategies and thought processes with the game. Good stuff!
cheers! Glad to help :) -Ashton
I have no idea how I've never come across this channel until now. I've been watching boardgaming channels for a few years now. It's crazy! The algorithm has completely failed me!
Fantastic channel! I'm already binging the back catalog. Keep up the great work!
Welcome aboard!
Wow reviewers that actually review a game? Great!
This is basically the universal problem with board game expansions. Give us new decks! Not more cards to add to existing decks!
It really sounds like you guys wanted to love this expansion, given your enjoyment of the base game, so it's sad to hear how much of a disappointment Ix was. Do you think that with some heavy houseruling it can be made an improvement on the base game, or is it just too complex to balance?
I agree with all the cons mentioned in the game. The same gripes I had with the base game of randomness with luck in the intrigue deck was worsened with the addition of even more cards. Of course the tech tiles and the imperium deck have the same issues.
Although it may not be a popular opinion, and goes against what the designer intended, I think the addition of some minor house rules can make the experience enjoyable.
ie) Our house rules:
1. Draw 2 intrigue cards and pick 1, and place the other at the bottom of the deck.
2. Whoever chooses their leader/character first goes last in turn order. (This gives Heighliner prio to starting players at turn 8)
I suddenly have an unexplainable hunger for a burger…
I enjoyed this review! I wanted to share with you my experience with Dune. I've had DI since it came out and I picked up the expansions along the way, but I didn't really play them much. I didn't even play the base Dune much, surprisingly. It was just okay for me, but I really wanted to like it more. So I had to address my problems with the game: RNG (as you call it) and combat. The randomness was mitigated by creating a six card market where the deck was subdivided by cost: 1 persuasion cards, 2, 3 . . . and 6+ persuasion cards. The combat bugged me the most. Reminded me of Scythe where combat didn't feel like combat at all. I took a cue from 1960: The Making of the President where cubes enter the bag and are drawn one at a time until two cubes of the same colour come out to determine winner. Repeat to determine second place. So cubes in combat go into the bag, but the swords "strengthen" the cubes where 2 swords = 1 cube. Before combat begins, players can upgrade their army by converting swords into cubes (this is done secretly and simultaneously). Anyway, these changes made me love Dune: Imperium and Uprising as well.
"this is not the "imperium" you are looking for"
The whole "whoever gets Heighliner" gives tension to turn order interaction which is absolute for interaction, however winning is NOT the most important thing, its about getting a good exchange for resources used, see it "like" taking serve at tennis, yes you're supossed to win on your serve (when turn order favours you) but its the breaks that is important... let them take the heighlenier, LET them believe youre going to toast them by taking mentat and bury them in intrigue cards and then don't do it so their exchange is bad. There's definitely a wheel within wheels and timing element that doesn't mean it's reduced to heighlener wins. Investing in intrigue and deck crafting can definitely provide a good enough counter.
I only played this once so my impressions aren't as developed as yours, but I wasn't surprised. The expansion felt it took the focus away from the conflict and turned into a more solitaire euro with everyone grabbing points in their own little way. Double downing on the intrigue cards was also really silly. The element of surprise should come from the conflicts and special actions, not end game bonuses
Thanks Mark! Always glad to see ya here, agree with your experience thoughts completely. Cheers! -ashton
I actually appreciated having the "crappy worker spots" because it added player interaction and force someone else onto it, thank you for pointing it out. I'll probably stick to the base game.
Really like their simplicity too! Cheers :) -ashton
Dune Imperium has always been about harnessing rng and exploiting opportunities. If the only thing you liked was how on rails the base experience was then I’m sorry for your anguish. The balance is not noticably off to me, it’s always been wacky and now there are no clearly „better” spaces - this is what needed a fix and Ix delivered. Must have expansion.
Would love to see review for their second expansion. Variations- 1)Base game + Rise Of Ix + Immortality and 2) Base game + only Immortality.
I'm interested! We will see -Ashton
@@Shelfside And one variant with both expansions and without Dreadnoughts that ruins the game :D :D
@@RolandsBriedis ahaha great to see -ashton
Hmm interesting criticisms. I have played ten games of base game D:I and I think Intrigue cards have always been swingy and Heighliner has always been powerful as it is on a guild that has a less interesting space than the rest (flexibility versus a specific style of benefit). D:I seems to be, at it's core, a tactical action efficiency game where players race for available VP and to the end trigger of 10 VP while dealing with changing turn order, conflict draw, intrigue draw, and imperium buy row limitations. Ix doesn't seem to increase randomness that much, but rather allow for more avenues of chasing VP or efficiency as that is limited, albiet tighter in the base game. I am basing that on your review alone though as I haven't played it myself so I could be presumptuous. I just still think that randomness was always present in D:I and perhaps you were more okay with that before? Just as in Star Realms, the 5 card buy row dictates what you will find success in, D:I is more complex but you are still figuring out a tactical puzzle of what is worth pursuing given board state at any given time.
I think for long term and more static victory conditions, other games might be better though by having more static victory paths, the design has to enable players to interact more. D:I can get away with worker placement and deckbuilding because the game imposes limitations on actions more than the players themselves. Maybe your group has hit the skill ceiling by now and each win feels more random as each game is tighter.
Played twice the expansion so I cant tell if these cons will be game changers for us.... but still understand the impact. We shall see. Thanks a lot for your awesome job
Hey, great review on Dune Imperium's new expansion Rise of IX. I love how you guys break everything down and give your own opinions and thoughts regarding games and expansions.
Even though I can't entirely agree with some opinions and think Rise of IX is a great expansion which opens up the Dune universe.
I respect your guy's thoughts, and hearing your honest, and genuine opinions on games is why I subscribe to your channel. You guys are excellent keep up the great work, and I look forward to the next review.😄
Thank you! More stuff coming for sure :) -ashton
What are you even talking about guys? Those intrigue cards are the best thing, you never know who 'll pull a crazy win in the end and most of the time they are never drawn, it's not like you draw that many intrigue cards anyway. I had some amazing wins with someone being three points behind, winning combat and having one of these cards. It's not an insta win, you still have to do some planning to get the needed spice/solari or condition needed for each intrigue card. I feel you guys are too into Twilight Imperium and Civilization to appreciate anything smaller scale 😢.
It's kind of a weird thing, where I actually really liked them from base game. But with the expansion, intrigue cards felt like they went overboard in what I could expect. Admittedly, I do still think its a little odd that they give points in a euro. It's definitely something I'm not as concerned about when playing with some groups though! -Ashton
Clearly you guys not only review, you stress test. Wish I woulda watched this before I bought the expansion last year :D Keep up the great work! You guys remind me of Board game version of John Tron XD
cheers! Glad to provide our perspective on this game, I've been thinking about the new announced version, not sure if we'll take a look, still 50/50 on it -Ashton
Great Review guys. Would you be able to do one on Overboss?
I completely agree: this is a good example where complexity does not necessarily equate depth.
The base game was a bit too straightforward in the early game and in late game certain spaces became useless, however this expansion is too gimmicky and offers so many way arounds and offers extra RNG to the point that it is very difficult to even understand how to interact with what the opponents are doing, which was the whole point of Dune Imperium. I still think this is useful and fun with a non-competitive crowd, as it is more thematic and swingy and actually my wife loves it.
Yeah I totally agree with the non-competitive crowd notion, it seems fun to mess around with everything, but if you're tryharding with expansion the game breaks pretty easily.
-Daniel
Thanks for the in-depth review. It looks like your the only ones who didn't like this expansion.
Are you still playing Dune imperium ? and if so, do you play it with or without the Rise of Ix expansion ?
thank you! I have not gotten base dune imperium to the table since this review, and have gotten rid of Rise of Ix! -Ashton
If this expansion was modular would it mitigate most of the cons? Like the playgroup curating what gets in the main deck and intrigue cards (from both sets), choice of not playing with tech tiles board (including dreadnoughts) and/or overlay board.
(Although it can lead to a problem of the product costing too much if the hivemind finds that you just want around a third of the content and the game is better off without all the other stuff.)
Great question, I think it would definitely help mitigate the randomness/intrigue nonsense cons for sure. Problem comes in with the new cards often times being connected to the new mechanics, like the dreadnought/tech board, or shppinig track.
The best solution I can think of right now is to take out some cards from base, like slight redundancies in intrigue abilities (combat ones come to mind), or maybe even just power creeping imperium row cards over all. Also, having 6 cards in imperium row, or churning it is recommended. Hope this helped! -Ashton
Never played this game, so not a fanboy or anything, but going from 5 cards out of 35 that give VP to 8 cards out of 50 is an increased probability of less than 2% that your next card will grant VP. Unlikely to make a noticeable difference to gameplay unless you play A LOT and keep very accurate stats.
i like it.
the techs are just an alternate way to spend your spice.
and i like the new Shipping track.
My group was also late to the Dune Imperium party, having only started with the base game this January. After one play, I decided that I liked it enough to buy my own copy to play with other groups and solo. Having discovered that a new stand-alone expansion/sequel/update had recently released, I chose Dune Imperium: Uprising over the base game.
After playing a bunch of Uprising and then watching this video, I can't help but think that _you_ had an indirect hand in its design. The new sandworm units work the way _you_ suggested dreadnoughts should work, the board spaces have been rebalanced, and combat is a consistent focus that drives interaction and rewards smart decisions.
It's almost like the designer watched this video, agreed with the criticisms, and made a new game to address them. I'm very curious to see if Uprising is a hit or miss for your group. Reactions so far are somewhat polarized, but most of the negative reviews are coming from players who loved Rise of Ix, so Uprising may be exactly what you guys want from Dune Imperium.
a euro making player interaction less frequest?! how could we have foreseen this
It brought tons of new life to my game group. We have 10 plays under our belts! This strikes a great balance of Euro and area control dudes on a map for us. I guess everyone has different tastes. This combined with the new expansion is awesome as well!
I’ve enjoyed every game of Ix so far, but I can definitely see your points across the board. I’m curious about the 6 cards or rotating the 5th card each round. The stagnation is real.
We made 2 rows of 4 cards and the 2 right most cards get trashed after every battle phase. That keeps the market full of options and we still only saw 3/4 of the deck in a 4 player game.
In immortality you get the family atomics token which let you renew trash and renew the imperium row. We use this even if we were just playing with rise of ix. It's a much needed aspect in the game because of the row becoming stale.
I hate that the base game is $69.99AUD... and rise of ix is $59.99AUD... it's an expansion and yet costs almost as much as the base game :(
oh gosh. Yeah I distinctly remember it being at least 45-55 when buying it in February, so I waited for quite some time. Try to get at a discount if you can!!! Good thing is that base game has plenty of replayability via digital integration. -Ashton
The RNG is crazy now, we play with both expansions and the winner of our last game had 17 points! And fights could get up 30 strength. As you said, if you a player didn't build dreadnoughts early then they would waist turns trying to get men to the fight. Now the game feels very formulaic: get a dreadnaught or a seat on the high council as fast as you can when you hit 3 VP get your 2nd agent and always been drawing intrigue cards! Because you know that crazy 3 point card is coming, so best be prepared for it. I would like some new combat cards, maybe there are some online, cause I am tried of the same ones popping up all the time- same with the tec. I am 100% with you about not flipping over a new tec and adding a 6th card to the row. I find myself not paying attention to other players turns cause who cares! I have never played 'just the base' but I would be game for it.
40:42 You said this a few times, but I don't know what it means: RNG. I like your reviews because it's obvious how much thought you put into what you say. You've played the game thoroughly and analyzed the game with your group. Your negative review is the first one I've seen on Ix. I'm still looking forward to getting it.
By the way, your encounter card fix in Scythe is genius! Scythe and D:I combat is disappointing to me and I fixed both using a cube tower. Every battle now has drama and some probability of upsets, but it's also less frustrating when you lose.
Heyo! RNG stands for "Random Number Generator", which we just use as slang for randomness!
Glad to hear the encounter card fix for Scyhte helped ya :D -Ashton
Love the reviews! Keep up the good work!
if they had added a sticker to the Hall of Oratory letting you discard and replace the cards in the market too that would have been enough. Also making 1 VP every 12 Solari made would have made spice harvesting and Sell Melange action key factors remaining more adherent to the lore and without extra boards and stuff that only takew away from the game by ironically adding more stuff. Dreadnoughts? Not even going there.
I think there is a lot of opinion without math going on in this review. Web of Power has weak benefits until later in the game when you can activate two or more of these. Given that you only cycle through your deck a few times, it may be a bit of a waste to not pick a different card with a more immediate payout. Conversely, if you lean heavy into factions, it’s reveal will eventually become a bit pointless.
Was Dune a KS? Or is this game straight to retail?
I'm pretty sure Dune Imperium was straight to retail via dire wolf, and this expansion went straight to retail too! -Ashton
There are many board games on IX, new games...better than those on Richese.
I don't agree with you on this. This expansion open up more possibility to do interesting things. For example, the Sell Melange space where you trade your spice for solari made the game run around this single space for getting solari. The CHOAM track instead demand more long term investment to get solari and makes the Foldspace attractive. It also makes the space Conspire a good way to obtain Solari which was previously a bad space to go. So now the board got 2 previously bad board space been interesting places to visit and fight for.
Also, about Prophecy of Kings. I personally don't find this expansion so great outside of the new factions. 1. The Mech render Infantry for the most part obsolete thus making all the factions based around Infantry worst then they were in the base game. 2. The exploration introduce more randomness in a 6-8 hours game experience which is not what I consider a great addition. 3. I like the leaders but for the most part they made the game more imbalanced. Some of the already best faction received strong leaders and some of the weak factions got bad ones.
Spy satellites are a huge NO NO. Lore wise Fremen blackmail the guild to put such a monstrous cost for satellite spy on >dune not even the >emperor can afford one orbiting Arrakis.
wow... truly thorough analysis. Thank you!
That is the fanciest coat Daniel. 10 out of 10.
I was intrigued by this review .. and then played the game with Rise of Ix some more. And then with both Ix and Immortality. Verdict?
Base game + Rise of Ix is the best iteration of the game. I would never go back to playing base game only, it's just too linear in comparison. I consider D:I + Rise of Ix the new base game. Immortality on the other hand suffers from being a bit too much at the moment (around 20 games played). Perhaps I will get tired of Rise of Ix only and it will get into the rotation but I'm quite happy with Rise of Ix. The BGG score is not a fluke, it's just an amazing expansion. Sorry it didn't work for you guys.
Finally someone brings a different perspective
These intros are always so hilarious lol
Always appreciate your reviews. You often pick up on the same flaws in games that annoy me.
Excellent review, but damn it is currently 8.8 (June 2022) on the geek.
thank you! Hope this review helps inform your opinion if you're looking to buy! -Ashton
@@Shelfside yep, staying vanilla because of your review for the time being. Considering the component upgrade expansion, but it is pricey for what one gets.
Most people really liked it and wouldn’t consider playing without it. There are good reasons it is so well liked - perhaps try it for yourself.
I don't believe one of your statements is correct. Fighting in the central conflict is ONE way to win. Rise of ix opens up alternate strategies. It becomes a better game as now it becomes less about just fighting and more about using alternate win conditions and political manouvering. Now if your opinion is you prefer a game where everyone is just focused on doing one thing, then sure.
The intro made me die lmao! I hope you guys can cover the new expansion (Immortality) coming out soon 😄 Great review too. Imo, Rise of IX is a great addition to the base game
ahaha cheers! Seems like we'll have to make a new review with such high demand for immortality review :) -Ashton
Unlike what Rodney said, you have broken my heart. Damn you and your well thought out reviews! 🤣🥒🏴
ahaha more reviews coming soon mate :) -Ashton
Theres been alot of positive buzz about the expansion but damn, Sounds like they need to reevalute the problems with the game to bring it back to a tighter and more balanced experience good thorough review
Great Review again. It´s really difficult to get into board games if you are completely new to it. All those 834700234 channels on UA-cam are advicing pretty differnt.
You on the other hand have such good arguments and a way of thinking through the game, that I startet to just trust you guys and go for it. Thank you!
Btw. it would be great to see what you say about space classics: Cosmic Encounter and Race for the Galaxy. Especially RftG seems to be still just the better version of what Terraforming mars, Wingspan etc. try to get into a game. Cosmic encounter seems to be unbeatable as a stupid fun game. But I never played them (RftG arrives tomorrow).
awesome! Yeah will completely agree that getting started on board games is really quite daunting. You can get all hyped up about a game, struggle to read the rules, and then realize too late its not a game for you (or your group!). I would want to do a review on Cosmic for sure at some point, because it has such a zany way of approaching politics! Cheers! -Ashton
16:06 rng = random number generator. Not randomness. RNG refers to the system a computer uses to simulate randomness. So it only makes sense to use the acronym RNG if youre talking about luck manipulation in a videogame.
Dice and cards _are_ analog systems for generating random numbers, therefor, RNG all the same. A system doesn't have to be electronically powered.
It’s the designer of Clank and you wanted less RNG? Lol. The funny thing about randomness, it’s the same for everyone. With enough plays the luck passes through you and only the best player remains 😘
you should review wonderland's war!
just reading up on it, looks fun, especially with the theme! Hope to get our hands on it one day -Ashton
Thank you for the review, I saved 50$ :)
glad we could help :) -ashton
I coulda told you.
Hamburger cheeseburger Big Mac Whopper
big mac big mac
Review immorality please, I wanna know what you man think 🥴
it's on the list for sure! -Ashton
Dang man, I was thinking about getting this!!!! Maybe not now lmao
I'll have to try immortality haha -Ashton
Wow!
Bro acts like he's a genius because he and his group discovered that heighliner exists and believes he can analyze gamestates in a blink of eye when I doubt he actually knows what's going on. As someone involved in the tts DI ix/immo community and has logged hundreds of games with ix, I kind of just cringed at this entire review. Also, there is RNG in the game, but a good player knows to best control the RNG to their abilities (i.e. when to induce reshuffles, when to play intrigues, etc.). Lastly, I'll just say that y'alls snobby, "better than thou" demeanors are just everything wrong with the board game hobby and why people often feel gatekept from joining in.
I agree, I don't think that the points raised in the video are valid criticisms of it's design. Spice becomes more important because it can be used to buy technologies now, having 2 dreadnoughts puts the starting combat strength at 6, meaning that the value of the 10 strength from the highliner diminishes. The core design of the conflicts is still that it's very difficult to win a conflict 2 turns in a row, the highliner following these rules. The intrigue cards where always a key part of the game and the whole argument that adding more in this expansion somehow makes them worse is also not that well explained.
I am not really sure about the snobby aspect. In my experience, most board gamers are super chill and inviting people, it's usually those on the outside of the hobby that struggle with their demeanors to get into the hobby, because they will not be invited for games if they piss people off.
Ok. So you didn't like the classic Dune boardgame, which is a masterpiece, but then don't like Rise of Ix because.. too "random" (the opposite of old dune, and actually much more similar to the type of randomness found in ti4).
Have you ever played a COIN game? it is time you do. no, listen, seriously, do it.
If you're so salty about VP intrigue cards why not just take them out lol
It’s a review; they review the game as intended to be played…
we could definitely take them out, but as Meathir said, we do like to review the game as written! Perhaps some houseruling is in order though :) -Ashton
yo sick blaze accelerator profile pic u got there Meathir
-Daniel
@@Shelfside A quickplay Raigeki AND 1500 burn?