Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but isn't this only showing that someone of Wayne's strategic skill-level would consistently win against someone of the dealer's skill-level? I feel like to really figure out how much luck plays a role it would just need to be two players of equal skill-level, no?
Right, but really any game boils down to just luck when two players are exactly equally matched. The thing I'm trying to quantify is your control over the outcome of a game despite RNG. I.e. you could argue chess is luck based if two players are the exact same skill level given going first gives you a slight advantage. If there were 2 omniscient chess players, the game would be a coin flip or a draw every time
@@mauer1 Not necessarily, there are skill-based games where a draw isn't a possible outcome, or possible in an optimal line of play. In these cases it's a coin flip as to who gets to go first or second, bc that will determine who wins
in a game of pure skill, the luck elements are things like, did my eye twitch and make me miss that railgun shot? did my caffeine wake me up or just give me a tummy ache? have i slept as well as that goddamn nazi bastard?
Also I was wondering if you could do a video about if Buckshot Roulette was a cooperative exercise. Basically imagine all four people at the table were kidnapped and forced to play the game as some sort of sick joke, how long could four people last without killing anyone.
I think it should be entirely possible for the engine to identify a clear guaranteed win and go straight for it, cutting out all the time-wasting nonsense, like the Minimax search optimized with Alpha-Beta pruning
Can't believe Kissboy went from "Wayne is my beloved son" to "Wayne is a little bitch, I hate him with every ounce of my being, dealer sweep lmao" smh. Top ten anime betrayals
Super impressive project and awesome video, Kissboy, as always. You got me super hooked on Buckshot Roulette and I am very grateful for it. I have a couple of suggestions for optimizing how much time Wayne spends thinking, although I suspect you have already thought about them before. 1. If you could store the entire decision tree for a given round, then Wayne would only have to think once at the very beginning, and navigate the roots as the game advances, eliminating the necessity for thinking before every individual decision; 2. You could incorporate some sort of alpha/beta pruning to the decision tree as well, which would stop Wayne from exploring further down unfavorable subtrees. This would allow Wayne to think less after seeing a guaranteed win, either going for it immediately or only looking for faster wins, for example. This could interfere with the functionality of suggestion 1, but some adjusting can be made to identify if an unexplored node has been reached to decide if Wayne should start thinking again; 3. It may be useful to separate items into 2 categories: knowledge givers and pure state changers. Knowledge givers would include magnifying glass, beer, burner phone and adrenaline, while the pure state changers would include cigarettes, handsaw, jammer (or handcuffs) and inverter (and remote, if included). The difference between these two groups in regards to the expectimax algorithms would be ordering. When using items before shooting, knowledge givers affect the usage of other items, depending on what information they provide, which means that their usage order matters. Pure state changers, however, don't really affect the usage of other items before shooting, as they don't change what is known, only what the state of the table is (how much health each player has, if someone/who is jammed, etc.). This means that the algorithm can be divided into two phases before every shot: ordered dependent choices with knowledge givers; followed by an unordered set of pure state changers. This would reduce the calculation time by a lot through the reduction of the exploration space by the symmetry of the outcomes. In this way, the distinction between using a cigarette before or after using the handsaw, for example, would vanish, as it doesn't actually affect the expected value before the shot. Therefore, the algorithm could, before each shot, search for permutations of the knowledge givers, same as before, but only analyze the effects of pure state changers as the combination of the amount used for each subgroup (2 cigarettes and 1 jammer, for example), without worrying about their order. I would be willing to try and implement these myself, but I don't know: any C#; enough coding; and enough git to actually be able to handle it.
Interesting video. I think its a bit unfair at the beginning because the dealer ai is not programmed to start the next loadout in a multiplayer game, so it doesn't matter if the last shell is live and he has an inverter he would not use it because he thinks that no matter what he does the player (wayne) is gonna start the next loadout i think, great video as always
Yeah, definitely an unfair matchup, but that was part of the point I was tryin to make. Understating that starting the next loadout is often better than dealing 1 damage would be part of a player's skill, so supports the idea that the game is less RNG-based than it may seem 👌
While I’m fairly confident the results would be the same, a “time travel” 1v1 could be an interesting setup for specifically testing the influence of luck - replay each match with the exact same seed, but with Wayne and the dealer on the opposite sides of the table. If Wayne wins both, luck had no influence on the match. Also, I’m noticing that Wayne’s “long thinks” tend to correlate with cigarettes in his loadout - I wonder if they might be getting in the way of pruning? They’re pretty much *always* a valid action to consider, and the advantage of saving or using them won’t be realized until fairly deep into any given branch (often, the end of the round.) Might already be something you’ve targeted for optimization, but I thought I might mention it because it’s the innocuous kind of thing that I’d personally be likely to overlook. :)
Actually used to have it so he'd auto-use ciggies when below max health, but took it out bc there are niche scenarios where you may not want to use them I think 👌 Biggest time sink is burner phone lol, he has to explore every reality with every possible learned shell, and if OP has one, explore every possible set of hidden shell knowledge lol
@@delightfulkissboy8926That absolutely makes sense - I figured there’d be a reason that you didn’t implement the greedy strategy. We even saw it here, with the handsaw probability! I know you’ve stated that you don’t want to show the code because it’s messy, but I think a breakdown of the approaches and optimizations you’ve implemented while writing Wayne would be a fascinating watch! Of course, I understand if you didn’t want to deal with even more backseat programming in the comments.
I had such a good laugh from your commentary over the AI "clowning" by using 2 inverters in a row for no reason in face of winning. I had tears watching this from laugh! Can't wait to see more types of "players" making appearance, especially when it's going to be for +2 players. And also commentary from such! Keep up the good stuff!
Wayne's skill makes me wonder if it's possible to get even better. Maybe if it were possible you could make a machine learning Buckshot player and have them play against Wayne to see if Wayne is as good as it gets.
At 12:28, Wayne has two guaranteed wins, but I wonder how he would have played it if the dealer had two health instead of one... presumably it would be better to use both beers (& inverter on the last shell if necessary) in order to avoid damage and preserve the jammer, but maybe he would take the same line and take a two-health advantage into the next loadout... if dealer has a bunch if discrete 1/8 chances of drawing a jammer to potentially deal two back to wayne, it seems better than giving the dealer a bunch of 1/7 chances to draw adrenaline... is 2 beers and an inverter worth an extra unit of health knowing that dealer's odds of pulling adrenaline to steal wayne's jammer are increased if he carries it over into the next loadout? I would have to think for a while to find the answer for this hypothetical situation 😂
(8:37) What im more surprised by is Wayne even going for the 40% chance of forced win by stealing the phone. Totally did not even see that at all, i was so focused on stealing the cigs.
19:00 It's interesting that wayne has to think again after using a magnifying glass. It seems like he would have already considered what he would do for each possible thing he could see, when deciding to use the magnifying glass. So maybe this could be stored so he doesn't need to think again afterwards. Like when evaluating each item like beer, magnifying glass, burner phone, he could store what he would do for each possible outcome of each unknown-outcome item, then when he picks the item he wants to use, he discards the information about the items he didn't decide to use. This would take up a lot of storage if he thought multiple items deep, but I guess some multi-item combos like magnifyingglass+beer or magnifyingglass+burnerphone have identical results so some redundant space could be saved. I think in the worst case it would take too much space to store unlimited depth for items used in one turn. Maybe just one layer deep is fine because it is rare to need more than that and when he does it's going to be fast to think what to do after the items are used up. He could also store what he would do for each possible outcome of the enemy's turn but that branch might have too many possibilities so maybe not. Maybe he doesnt need to because he could do his thinking while the opponent is deciding what to do. Then there will be probably no wait time after the enemy is done anyway. But idk how hard it is to do asynchronous multithread stuff or something, that could be hard maybe. But I think it would be good to make him think while other stuff is happening.
man i can’t imagine trying to get to a million against freakin wayne dude, it took me like 8 months against the dealer sob also content suggestion; have you considered using the music from mike’s album tango circuit?? my friend said (apparently) it had some scrapped buckshot osts so it might fit the vibe as well?? you’re pumping out videos so fast i don’t even have time to watch em all @o@
On a completely unrelated note I wish you could have a random chance to get a different shotgun in the middle of the table (for instance an automatic one or a lever-action one) completely useless just some visual flare
The only thing i'd complain about regarding luck in this game is that the optimal strategy feels so accessible. Decision making seems very straightforward in most cases. Any player could get remarkably close to playing perfectly by watching your videos and playing for 30-50 hours honing their technique. There's just not that many variables. Correct me if i'm wrong but wayne's skill level isn't some unachievable standard, and once two waynes are facing one another it's a coin flip. That's probably the argument people are making for this game being less skill based
I think "very good" play is accessible in this game, but I don't think that's the case for optimal play. Wayne still does shit that I would be very unlikely to see, and there's still a lot of unknowns when it comes to going loadout to loadout, particularly with variable user settings
Buckshot IS a very skillful game, so seeing Wayne trounce the dealer was entirely expected (and fun too). However, when it comes to luck in this game, I would be curious to see how much influence two specific things would have on Wayne vs. Wayne match up. -Who goes first. -What items each of them drafts.
I'd really like to see a tournament between bots with different playstyles/skill levels, for example if you had wayne face off against wayne with a tiny search depth, dealer but he's watched "why you should never shoot yourself", dealer but he is cheating and has a 50/50 chance to know the next shell, etc.
Compare to Liars Bar this is more skill then luck. Due to counting rounds and number of lives you have before losing. What funny is the gun roulette aspect of the game isn't the luck part. It the items that you get will either increase or decrease you chances of winning if you counted correct.
I think the whole discussion of skill vs luck, it's kinda a Catch 22. let me explain: so, i believe that when it comes to skill in this game, it's about knowing how to count the shells in each round, knowing items, but most importantly, INFORMATION. information is such a very valuable aspect in this game. luck in this game comes from items you get, how many items you get each round, the number of shells, and the order of those shells. you might be able to tell where I'm going with this. without having luck, you can't gain information, but you still can have the base skill of counting the shots in each round. if you don't have skill, let's say you don't know how to count the bullets, you can rely on the luck of the shotgun in order to win and you could technically never use items and win. this probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but what I'm trying to say is that there are bases of both skill and luck in this game that are always present. what you do with those bases and expand on them, in my opinion, is how you look at whether this game is skill or luck
I really want to see a mod for Buckshot with Wayne, and mb he could look like red Dealer there lol Dunno much about Godot modding tho, so not sure if that's possible xP But I feel like he'll be in a tank for a lot longer there
I really should've played last MP event, but I am very shy and hate how my voice sounds.. I joined the Discord and all but I dunno what to do, or who to talk to..
@KingArttuBut talking shit and mindgames is part of the fun for a MP game.. I'd probably just take a few bumps of a substance or two and try and not have an anxiety attack.
@KingArttuI know but MP is inherently supposed to be social, but my social anxiety is so crippling that even talking to people online makes me anxious/self conscious. I might just hit a rail or two to take the edge off..
i think the dealer is a great ai for casual players. especially the new ai. its fun because it isnt playing optimal, so the change of winning for the player is greater. but for multiplayer, where optimal everyone wants to win, its ai is just lacking too much.
Match 6 Round 1: Wayne should have used Burner for the chance to discover if a Shell to eliminate the Locations of the Blanks, Then Jammed, Then Beer'd and Shot Twice. If he Finds a Blank he knows its a Guaranteed Win, if he Finds a Live he Knows a Blank is NOT there, and thus the Beer, especially if the live was 3 or 4, because a live in Position 3 or 4 means the Blanks can only be in 1 2 or 5, thus making a beer double shot ALWAYS a win. The only time this play wouldn't have worked is the 1/5 scenario he Sees the Live in 5, a blank is in 2 and 3, and 1 is live. But even if that were the Case it was always a Guaranteed win. As he would Eject 1 live, Shoot 2 blanks, Take 1 Deal 1 and Win. Just thought I'd use your analyzation strategies that you've taught us for this
I think he had a guaranteed win either way, so he defaults to just shooting OP here. I.e. when it goes to the dealer's turn, there's nothing he can do to win or get to the next loadout from that position
I understand why you had to hamper Wayne so this wouldn’t take forever to play out but I would love to see optimised Wayne play a full gauntlet - see how high the % win rate can be by playing optimally
I think it's basically the same thing either way since he's taking two consecutive shots. There's a 1/4 chance the first is blank vs a 1/4 chance the second is blank at the beginning of the turn. If he takes the first shot unsawed, he's technically gaining more info before sawing it off. I.e. in the 1/4 case the first one's blank, he knows the full loadout and has a guaranteed hit with handsaw. In the 3/4 the first one's live, his odds drop to 2/3 for the next shot. 3/4 * 2/3 + 1/4 * 1 is still 3/4 chance to hit with handsaw
EDIT2: I was mistaken but a lotta 3 and 4HP rounds, 40% 1st round 4HP and those were the best in my opinion. Still a lotta 4HP rounds over all, i didnt check every round individually yet
@@delightfulkissboy8926Ah interesting, well it was 4/10 1st rounds with 4HP and the rest with 3HP which is neat. Lotta 4HP rounds in general it took me a while to see even the first 3HP round at all.
Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but isn't this only showing that someone of Wayne's strategic skill-level would consistently win against someone of the dealer's skill-level?
I feel like to really figure out how much luck plays a role it would just need to be two players of equal skill-level, no?
Right, but really any game boils down to just luck when two players are exactly equally matched. The thing I'm trying to quantify is your control over the outcome of a game despite RNG.
I.e. you could argue chess is luck based if two players are the exact same skill level given going first gives you a slight advantage. If there were 2 omniscient chess players, the game would be a coin flip or a draw every time
Think this is an important distinction, so I'll pin your comment, thanks for the Q!
a game that fully 100% comes down to skill will always come out as a draw.
@@mauer1 Not necessarily, there are skill-based games where a draw isn't a possible outcome, or possible in an optimal line of play. In these cases it's a coin flip as to who gets to go first or second, bc that will determine who wins
in a game of pure skill, the luck elements are things like, did my eye twitch and make me miss that railgun shot? did my caffeine wake me up or just give me a tummy ache? have i slept as well as that goddamn nazi bastard?
Hilarious how it took giving Wayne a lobotomy for the dealer to win
Wayne didn't lose even once until he had his thinking privliges reduced, and after that his winrate dropped from 100% to 64%.
Also I was wondering if you could do a video about if Buckshot Roulette was a cooperative exercise. Basically imagine all four people at the table were kidnapped and forced to play the game as some sort of sick joke, how long could four people last without killing anyone.
that’s actually a hella interesting question
Ooh, fun Q, may have to yoink this vid idea 👀
@ thanks!
i mean if you can just not take turns then it would last forever
@ well obviously you have to take turns
I move that we name the Wayne with reduced thinking time Hungover Wayne
The way you started mocking Wayne after the dealer won a match was just hilarious lol
I think it should be entirely possible for the engine to identify a clear guaranteed win and go straight for it, cutting out all the time-wasting nonsense, like the Minimax search optimized with Alpha-Beta pruning
@iryoku_7491 yee, should be the case
That stupid FUCKER Wayne got what he deserved
I just thought of a possibly fun matchup.
Wayne vs.
Old dealer vs
New dealer vs
DKB
It amazes me that no matter what you post I'll watch the entire thing. Truly a youtuber of all time.
Can't believe Kissboy went from "Wayne is my beloved son" to "Wayne is a little bitch, I hate him with every ounce of my being, dealer sweep lmao" smh. Top ten anime betrayals
Learning Stats from School: Cringe
Learning Stats from Delightful Kissboy: Based
Super impressive project and awesome video, Kissboy, as always. You got me super hooked on Buckshot Roulette and I am very grateful for it.
I have a couple of suggestions for optimizing how much time Wayne spends thinking, although I suspect you have already thought about them before.
1. If you could store the entire decision tree for a given round, then Wayne would only have to think once at the very beginning, and navigate the roots as the game advances, eliminating the necessity for thinking before every individual decision;
2. You could incorporate some sort of alpha/beta pruning to the decision tree as well, which would stop Wayne from exploring further down unfavorable subtrees. This would allow Wayne to think less after seeing a guaranteed win, either going for it immediately or only looking for faster wins, for example. This could interfere with the functionality of suggestion 1, but some adjusting can be made to identify if an unexplored node has been reached to decide if Wayne should start thinking again;
3. It may be useful to separate items into 2 categories: knowledge givers and pure state changers. Knowledge givers would include magnifying glass, beer, burner phone and adrenaline, while the pure state changers would include cigarettes, handsaw, jammer (or handcuffs) and inverter (and remote, if included). The difference between these two groups in regards to the expectimax algorithms would be ordering. When using items before shooting, knowledge givers affect the usage of other items, depending on what information they provide, which means that their usage order matters. Pure state changers, however, don't really affect the usage of other items before shooting, as they don't change what is known, only what the state of the table is (how much health each player has, if someone/who is jammed, etc.). This means that the algorithm can be divided into two phases before every shot: ordered dependent choices with knowledge givers; followed by an unordered set of pure state changers. This would reduce the calculation time by a lot through the reduction of the exploration space by the symmetry of the outcomes. In this way, the distinction between using a cigarette before or after using the handsaw, for example, would vanish, as it doesn't actually affect the expected value before the shot.
Therefore, the algorithm could, before each shot, search for permutations of the knowledge givers, same as before, but only analyze the effects of pure state changers as the combination of the amount used for each subgroup (2 cigarettes and 1 jammer, for example), without worrying about their order.
I would be willing to try and implement these myself, but I don't know: any C#; enough coding; and enough git to actually be able to handle it.
Interesting video. I think its a bit unfair at the beginning because the dealer ai is not programmed to start the next loadout in a multiplayer game, so it doesn't matter if the last shell is live and he has an inverter he would not use it because he thinks that no matter what he does the player (wayne) is gonna start the next loadout i think, great video as always
Yeah, definitely an unfair matchup, but that was part of the point I was tryin to make. Understating that starting the next loadout is often better than dealing 1 damage would be part of a player's skill, so supports the idea that the game is less RNG-based than it may seem 👌
While I’m fairly confident the results would be the same, a “time travel” 1v1 could be an interesting setup for specifically testing the influence of luck - replay each match with the exact same seed, but with Wayne and the dealer on the opposite sides of the table. If Wayne wins both, luck had no influence on the match.
Also, I’m noticing that Wayne’s “long thinks” tend to correlate with cigarettes in his loadout - I wonder if they might be getting in the way of pruning? They’re pretty much *always* a valid action to consider, and the advantage of saving or using them won’t be realized until fairly deep into any given branch (often, the end of the round.) Might already be something you’ve targeted for optimization, but I thought I might mention it because it’s the innocuous kind of thing that I’d personally be likely to overlook. :)
Actually used to have it so he'd auto-use ciggies when below max health, but took it out bc there are niche scenarios where you may not want to use them I think 👌
Biggest time sink is burner phone lol, he has to explore every reality with every possible learned shell, and if OP has one, explore every possible set of hidden shell knowledge lol
@@delightfulkissboy8926That absolutely makes sense - I figured there’d be a reason that you didn’t implement the greedy strategy. We even saw it here, with the handsaw probability!
I know you’ve stated that you don’t want to show the code because it’s messy, but I think a breakdown of the approaches and optimizations you’ve implemented while writing Wayne would be a fascinating watch! Of course, I understand if you didn’t want to deal with even more backseat programming in the comments.
Karma caught up to Wayne for flexing by double inverting a live one in round 7. You get what you deserve, nerd.
I'm betting the Dealer is gonna get absolutely dunked on by Wayne
I had such a good laugh from your commentary over the AI "clowning" by using 2 inverters in a row for no reason in face of winning. I had tears watching this from laugh! Can't wait to see more types of "players" making appearance, especially when it's going to be for +2 players. And also commentary from such! Keep up the good stuff!
That win screen is excellent dear kisslad
Can't wait to see the video after commenting instead of vice-versa!
Wayne being taught impulsivity was not on my 2024 Bingo card
So, if I understood the video correctly, what you proved is that Wayne has more luck than the dealer?
I think so, Wayne is a disgusting lucker tbh
@@delightfulkissboy8926He can't keep getting away with it. I guess if I ever see someone playing stupid good I'm gonna call them "Waynecore"
Wayne's skill makes me wonder if it's possible to get even better. Maybe if it were possible you could make a machine learning Buckshot player and have them play against Wayne to see if Wayne is as good as it gets.
What a sick combo by wayne starting at 8:37... seeing the forced win after learning the last two shells was gnarly as fuck. Beautiful solution!
At 12:28, Wayne has two guaranteed wins, but I wonder how he would have played it if the dealer had two health instead of one... presumably it would be better to use both beers (& inverter on the last shell if necessary) in order to avoid damage and preserve the jammer, but maybe he would take the same line and take a two-health advantage into the next loadout... if dealer has a bunch if discrete 1/8 chances of drawing a jammer to potentially deal two back to wayne, it seems better than giving the dealer a bunch of 1/7 chances to draw adrenaline... is 2 beers and an inverter worth an extra unit of health knowing that dealer's odds of pulling adrenaline to steal wayne's jammer are increased if he carries it over into the next loadout? I would have to think for a while to find the answer for this hypothetical situation 😂
(8:37)
What im more surprised by is Wayne even going for the 40% chance of forced win by stealing the phone.
Totally did not even see that at all, i was so focused on stealing the cigs.
19:00 It's interesting that wayne has to think again after using a magnifying glass. It seems like he would have already considered what he would do for each possible thing he could see, when deciding to use the magnifying glass. So maybe this could be stored so he doesn't need to think again afterwards. Like when evaluating each item like beer, magnifying glass, burner phone, he could store what he would do for each possible outcome of each unknown-outcome item, then when he picks the item he wants to use, he discards the information about the items he didn't decide to use. This would take up a lot of storage if he thought multiple items deep, but I guess some multi-item combos like magnifyingglass+beer or magnifyingglass+burnerphone have identical results so some redundant space could be saved. I think in the worst case it would take too much space to store unlimited depth for items used in one turn. Maybe just one layer deep is fine because it is rare to need more than that and when he does it's going to be fast to think what to do after the items are used up.
He could also store what he would do for each possible outcome of the enemy's turn but that branch might have too many possibilities so maybe not. Maybe he doesnt need to because he could do his thinking while the opponent is deciding what to do. Then there will be probably no wait time after the enemy is done anyway. But idk how hard it is to do asynchronous multithread stuff or something, that could be hard maybe. But I think it would be good to make him think while other stuff is happening.
if he's just looking a head a certain amount of steps then it could be that after the magnifying glass he now has another step to look through
its always a good time to hear delightful joe swanson yap
Unnerffed Wayne would have swept
I see the dealer's AI has improved since the last time I tuned in
very cool, thanks pissboy!
An unskilled player relies on luck. A skilled player makes their own luck.
man i can’t imagine trying to get to a million against freakin wayne dude, it took me like 8 months against the dealer sob
also content suggestion; have you considered using the music from mike’s album tango circuit?? my friend said (apparently) it had some scrapped buckshot osts so it might fit the vibe as well??
you’re pumping out videos so fast i don’t even have time to watch em all @o@
Hadn't heard about that! Will have to check it out 👌 Thanks!
On a completely unrelated note I wish you could have a random chance to get a different shotgun in the middle of the table (for instance an automatic one or a lever-action one) completely useless just some visual flare
The only thing i'd complain about regarding luck in this game is that the optimal strategy feels so accessible. Decision making seems very straightforward in most cases. Any player could get remarkably close to playing perfectly by watching your videos and playing for 30-50 hours honing their technique. There's just not that many variables. Correct me if i'm wrong but wayne's skill level isn't some unachievable standard, and once two waynes are facing one another it's a coin flip. That's probably the argument people are making for this game being less skill based
I think "very good" play is accessible in this game, but I don't think that's the case for optimal play. Wayne still does shit that I would be very unlikely to see, and there's still a lot of unknowns when it comes to going loadout to loadout, particularly with variable user settings
4-for-alls are very skill expressive once you consider the social game element. managing aggro from the other 3 players is an art.
Hello, and welcome to the Los Pollos Hermanos Family, my name is Gustavo but you can call me kitty Gus
Buckshot IS a very skillful game, so seeing Wayne trounce the dealer was entirely expected (and fun too).
However, when it comes to luck in this game, I would be curious to see how much influence two specific things would have on Wayne vs. Wayne match up.
-Who goes first.
-What items each of them drafts.
If Wayne works in matchups with more than 2 people I think it'd be really interesting to see how Wayne does against 2 or 3 dealers
kissboy can you do my taxes
I made 100k bots do my viewers' taxes. Here's how much money they lost
@ LOL
*In his signiture voice*
"Hey how's it going everybody? It's your boy, Delightful Kissboy!"®
I'd really like to see a tournament between bots with different playstyles/skill levels, for example if you had wayne face off against wayne with a tiny search depth, dealer but he's watched "why you should never shoot yourself", dealer but he is cheating and has a 50/50 chance to know the next shell, etc.
Compare to Liars Bar this is more skill then luck. Due to counting rounds and number of lives you have before losing. What funny is the gun roulette aspect of the game isn't the luck part. It the items that you get will either increase or decrease you chances of winning if you counted correct.
I think the whole discussion of skill vs luck, it's kinda a Catch 22. let me explain:
so, i believe that when it comes to skill in this game, it's about knowing how to count the shells in each round, knowing items, but most importantly, INFORMATION. information is such a very valuable aspect in this game. luck in this game comes from items you get, how many items you get each round, the number of shells, and the order of those shells. you might be able to tell where I'm going with this.
without having luck, you can't gain information, but you still can have the base skill of counting the shots in each round. if you don't have skill, let's say you don't know how to count the bullets, you can rely on the luck of the shotgun in order to win and you could technically never use items and win. this probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but what I'm trying to say is that there are bases of both skill and luck in this game that are always present. what you do with those bases and expand on them, in my opinion, is how you look at whether this game is skill or luck
That's the reason why Wayne's win rate isn't 100%
Still demonstrated to be predominantly skill though
I really want to see a mod for Buckshot with Wayne, and mb he could look like red Dealer there lol
Dunno much about Godot modding tho, so not sure if that's possible xP But I feel like he'll be in a tank for a lot longer there
I really should've played last MP event, but I am very shy and hate how my voice sounds.. I joined the Discord and all but I dunno what to do, or who to talk to..
You can participate mic muted too!
@KingArttuBut talking shit and mindgames is part of the fun for a MP game.. I'd probably just take a few bumps of a substance or two and try and not have an anxiety attack.
@KingArttuI know but MP is inherently supposed to be social, but my social anxiety is so crippling that even talking to people online makes me anxious/self conscious. I might just hit a rail or two to take the edge off..
i think the dealer is a great ai for casual players. especially the new ai. its fun because it isnt playing optimal, so the change of winning for the player is greater.
but for multiplayer, where optimal everyone wants to win, its ai is just lacking too much.
What we have is one guy doing everything he can to play one shell optimally vs one guy goimg everythimg he can to play one loadout optimally
Match 6 Round 1: Wayne should have used Burner for the chance to discover if a Shell to eliminate the Locations of the Blanks, Then Jammed, Then Beer'd and Shot Twice. If he Finds a Blank he knows its a Guaranteed Win, if he Finds a Live he Knows a Blank is NOT there, and thus the Beer, especially if the live was 3 or 4, because a live in Position 3 or 4 means the Blanks can only be in 1 2 or 5, thus making a beer double shot ALWAYS a win. The only time this play wouldn't have worked is the 1/5 scenario he Sees the Live in 5, a blank is in 2 and 3, and 1 is live. But even if that were the Case it was always a Guaranteed win. As he would Eject 1 live, Shoot 2 blanks, Take 1 Deal 1 and Win. Just thought I'd use your analyzation strategies that you've taught us for this
I think he had a guaranteed win either way, so he defaults to just shooting OP here. I.e. when it goes to the dealer's turn, there's nothing he can do to win or get to the next loadout from that position
I understand why you had to hamper Wayne so this wouldn’t take forever to play out but I would love to see optimised Wayne play a full gauntlet - see how high the % win rate can be by playing optimally
Hey, pardon the basic question, but is the "thinking" time comprised of monte carlo simulation or some other decision making technique?
love how the dealer looks like a potato.
hope wayne is embarrassed he lost to a f-ing potato
sCONGRATULATIONS! ! !
Im super curious as to how you make your visuals for these codes
I'm using a C# binding for Raylib, which is pretty barebones (hence why my UI is so beautiful lol)
22:05 Why did he use the Handsaw second if he knew the next shell is highly likely to be a live round?
I think it's basically the same thing either way since he's taking two consecutive shots. There's a 1/4 chance the first is blank vs a 1/4 chance the second is blank at the beginning of the turn. If he takes the first shot unsawed, he's technically gaining more info before sawing it off.
I.e. in the 1/4 case the first one's blank, he knows the full loadout and has a guaranteed hit with handsaw. In the 3/4 the first one's live, his odds drop to 2/3 for the next shot. 3/4 * 2/3 + 1/4 * 1 is still 3/4 chance to hit with handsaw
If you could add an item into the game, what it would be?
problem is me and my pal both watched your video together so now its completely unfun xD
If Wayne played endless mode, he’d consistently get 10k$ on the first match.
Also does Wayne use some type of dynamic programming technique with game states to make it run faster?
Kind of, I cache board states and map them to their eval scores so he doesn't have to traverse the whole tree every time
1v1 having 4HP fixed is so much more interesting and hype, no BS instakills just about, well highly unlikely. More skill expression for sure.
EDIT2: I was mistaken but a lotta 3 and 4HP rounds, 40% 1st round 4HP and those were the best in my opinion. Still a lotta 4HP rounds over all, i didnt check every round individually yet
I didn't, wanted to keep the default settings for this vid since that's what most ppl will be playing with 👌
@@delightfulkissboy8926Ah interesting, well it was 4/10 1st rounds with 4HP and the rest with 3HP which is neat. Lotta 4HP rounds in general it took me a while to see even the first 3HP round at all.
Would be awesome if Wayne could actually play Buckshot, Curious how long wayne could go in double or nothing
5:38 🪵
you should put wayne in the actual game and see if he can get to a billion dollars in double or nothing
Yes
Would wayne make it to a billion ?
ayo new mic?
Same mic! Just been playing around with compression, etc... To get a better sound out of it, particularly trying to get rid of the echo-y sound
Just what i need for my shower
I wish there was some element of bluffing in the game
There kind of is with burner phone, but yeah, not much other than that
2:50
YES IT’S Buckshot AND GAMBLING. D. Kissboy is moving up in the world.